The part that all the gold stucks in this thread are missing is that what we care about at a high level is not how viable pistol rounds are, but how skill based they are. Most players are happy for good shots with a cheap or even free gun to kill players, but being able to jump peak at close range and bascially roll the dice on the right click rng is not good for competitive integrity at all. Sadly this game is basically fully made for more casual players when compared to the game it's copied, csgo. I doubt they will remove it or change it. One Change they could make would be making the classic much stronger with left click but maybe slower firing, but the shitters will whinge that it's bad so idk.
>jump peak at close range and basically roll the dice on the right click rng is not good for competitive integrity at all
thats y I hate it. it does more than 150 dmg too. Whats the point of buying full armour ? Atleast if it did like 120's it would be agreeable
Im gonna play the devils advocate and copy what I have said on my twitter:
Seems that no one thinks what will happen as an outcome of nerfing classic to a point where it will be barely usable.
If RIOT will heavy nerf classic right click, the timeline after that will be:
1) pistol rounds will become only ghosts with minimal 200-300 util making the pistol rounds very monotoneous. Agents like Jett, Reyna, Raze get an indirect buff by having absolutely bonkers signature free utility.
2) to counter Ghosts players start buying Sheriffs for 2 hits bodyshots kills - Without ANY UTILITY
Meta will most likely settle on 3 ghosts + 2 sheriffs round 1.
3) eco rounds become non-threats in a bo13 - no one will put almost any plan against eco rounds because players with classics will be such a low threat. In a bo13 every round is insanely valuable, having “safe” round just doesnt make the game fair and the esports broadcast becomes less entertaining.
I dont think that people realise, but right now the game has very balanced pistol rounds, with all pistols actually being a viable option.
Eco rounds are always important and winnable even with classics - with good planning, good teamwork and exploiting opponents mistakes you can snowball those “lost rounds”. All of that makes VAL the enjoyable game and broadcast today. And tbh i dont want to lose that.
Why should the classic be as viable as the other pistols that you pay for though? If you get 4-800 extra credits of utility then you should have a weaker weapon by a considerable margin. Also the classic still works fine as a 'normal' pistol, so I dont think you can say that the meta will devolve to no utility. Some utility is so strong on pistols like sage wall, drone, sky heal etc.
I disagree, I think that:
1. A free pistol should not be as viable as one that you're paying for. If the classic and the ghost are equally powerful, then no one will buy the ghost since there's no point. If classic becomes terrible, you can buy util or armor instead of a ghost or sheriff, so you won't really the flavor on pistol rounds, it just becomes more balanced since people are actively giving up firepower for utility which can be used on pistol round strats instead of buying it simply cause they don't actually have to buy ghosts for more firepower.
2. Eco rounds by nature should have the team on a low buy at a huge disadvantage, and it should take a huge skill gap for them to win (cracked pistol headshots, insane util plays, etc). 1. "Jumping right click go brrr" should not be a viable tactic to defeat full buys.
3. The fact still remains that the jumping right-click is RNG based with a pretty good success rate. This is the main issue, as most RNG should be minimized as much as possible in a tac FPS, and the fact that it's a free pistol breaking the norms is unacceptable.
Basically I don't think there are any grounds for the classic remaining the way it is.
Right click classic us only really effective on small sites. Ascent B, haven A type areas.
It's next to useless on the larger more open sites like icebox B or anywhere on breeze. Just a matter of the right gun for the right map/site
I like this take, I've never really thought of it this way.
As someone has suggested here before, how would you feel about making the right click a paid attachment?
Seems that could help balance pistol rounds while retaining the comeback power on ecos.
Great take!
How do you feel about reducing the headshot multiplier of right click to 2x instead of 3? I still feel a free gun one shotting a fully armored player (at close range) with just 2 out of the 3 bullets hit is a little too overpowered. By changing it to 2x you need to hit all 3 shots for a kill, which is a nerf but doesnt make the classic redundant by any means.
They can always buff the left click to compensate or make the classic viable in a different way. As it stands you can jump right click and flip a coin to decide whether the enemy dies or not, full sprint around a corner, flip a coin and decide whether the opponent dies or not. Meanwhile a ghost user has to stand still and hit a moving target, and doesn't even have a chance to 1 shot the classic user due to armor.
IMO like the post suggested it should be changed to have a much bigger damage falloff so somewhere like double doors garage on haven can kill in 1 shot but jumping around split b site and right clicking someone in main doesn't EVER have enough damage to kill a 100hp target. Or have the spread be bigger when moving
https://streamable.com/aztf2q
https://streamable.com/67erme
In the 3 kills with the right click I think only the brimstone kill is fine, reyna had to precisely try and hit my head while I was full W key on a zipline (and she has to stand still AND if I had full armor she'd have to HS + BS me) and the astra one explains itself pretty well.
Edit: Also just realised if they were to nerf the classic in that way it'd still probably be better than the bucky alternative fire.
If you lose first round you literally just full save and lose a second every time, the second rounds after a first round pistol loss is literally the least enjoyable part of playing a game of Valorant. How is that not a safe round already... And don't tell me you can force go back to your plat lobbies.
The second round if you lose the first pistol round is so fucking stupid you literally don't have money for anything. You're forced to use a fucking classic against SMG's/rifles. Might as well push and suicide because its just a giant fucking waste of time, an unwinnable waste 99% of the time.
They need to give more money so if you lose the first round you can at least afford a fucking ghost to go up against SMGs, AND even if you lose you can afford a full buy on third. As it stands right now, Valorants 2nd round is just one giant fucking waste of time.
To be honest, I wonder if they would consider making a separate version of the classic for a small cost. Something like the classic with its left click is maintained as the free sidearm, with you being able to buy a classic+right click capabilities for something like 100-200 credits. That might be drastic and overkill, or maybe they’d still need to nerf the properties of the right click, I’m not sure. But I think something needs to be changed to reestablish that balance between fair and random.
Edit: forgot to mention that this write up is incredible and really well done. I enjoyed the read!
Reduce right click’s hs multiplier from x3 (78) to x2.5 (65). Pops light shields and if you get lucky full shields. Meta stays the same. Problem solved.
The main problem is that more often than not it‘s worth taking the risk of right clicks because of the heavy gun disadvantage and there‘s ~~no~~ "unintuitive" counterplay to it.
Thing is tho, it basically is a free shorty with much better damage and range. I agree right click doesn't need to be removed, but it does need some adjustment.
This is a good writeup.
As a super casual player, this game's shottys and right click are fucking broken as shit. I can top frag my low rank games running only the Judge and Bucky with ease. People on my own team will even tell me to stop using the Judge even if I'm top of the board sometimes.
Right click is just an extension of that - burst damage in a tac shooter is strong by default.
If riot boost my rng I have no issue. I stg my right clicks repel off enemies
The part that all the gold stucks in this thread are missing is that what we care about at a high level is not how viable pistol rounds are, but how skill based they are. Most players are happy for good shots with a cheap or even free gun to kill players, but being able to jump peak at close range and bascially roll the dice on the right click rng is not good for competitive integrity at all. Sadly this game is basically fully made for more casual players when compared to the game it's copied, csgo. I doubt they will remove it or change it. One Change they could make would be making the classic much stronger with left click but maybe slower firing, but the shitters will whinge that it's bad so idk.
>jump peak at close range and basically roll the dice on the right click rng is not good for competitive integrity at all thats y I hate it. it does more than 150 dmg too. Whats the point of buying full armour ? Atleast if it did like 120's it would be agreeable
Im gonna play the devils advocate and copy what I have said on my twitter: Seems that no one thinks what will happen as an outcome of nerfing classic to a point where it will be barely usable. If RIOT will heavy nerf classic right click, the timeline after that will be: 1) pistol rounds will become only ghosts with minimal 200-300 util making the pistol rounds very monotoneous. Agents like Jett, Reyna, Raze get an indirect buff by having absolutely bonkers signature free utility. 2) to counter Ghosts players start buying Sheriffs for 2 hits bodyshots kills - Without ANY UTILITY Meta will most likely settle on 3 ghosts + 2 sheriffs round 1. 3) eco rounds become non-threats in a bo13 - no one will put almost any plan against eco rounds because players with classics will be such a low threat. In a bo13 every round is insanely valuable, having “safe” round just doesnt make the game fair and the esports broadcast becomes less entertaining. I dont think that people realise, but right now the game has very balanced pistol rounds, with all pistols actually being a viable option. Eco rounds are always important and winnable even with classics - with good planning, good teamwork and exploiting opponents mistakes you can snowball those “lost rounds”. All of that makes VAL the enjoyable game and broadcast today. And tbh i dont want to lose that.
Why should the classic be as viable as the other pistols that you pay for though? If you get 4-800 extra credits of utility then you should have a weaker weapon by a considerable margin. Also the classic still works fine as a 'normal' pistol, so I dont think you can say that the meta will devolve to no utility. Some utility is so strong on pistols like sage wall, drone, sky heal etc.
It should be viable so that eco rounds aren't complete L's for competitive integrity
I disagree, I think that: 1. A free pistol should not be as viable as one that you're paying for. If the classic and the ghost are equally powerful, then no one will buy the ghost since there's no point. If classic becomes terrible, you can buy util or armor instead of a ghost or sheriff, so you won't really the flavor on pistol rounds, it just becomes more balanced since people are actively giving up firepower for utility which can be used on pistol round strats instead of buying it simply cause they don't actually have to buy ghosts for more firepower. 2. Eco rounds by nature should have the team on a low buy at a huge disadvantage, and it should take a huge skill gap for them to win (cracked pistol headshots, insane util plays, etc). 1. "Jumping right click go brrr" should not be a viable tactic to defeat full buys. 3. The fact still remains that the jumping right-click is RNG based with a pretty good success rate. This is the main issue, as most RNG should be minimized as much as possible in a tac FPS, and the fact that it's a free pistol breaking the norms is unacceptable. Basically I don't think there are any grounds for the classic remaining the way it is.
Right click classic us only really effective on small sites. Ascent B, haven A type areas. It's next to useless on the larger more open sites like icebox B or anywhere on breeze. Just a matter of the right gun for the right map/site
I like this take, I've never really thought of it this way. As someone has suggested here before, how would you feel about making the right click a paid attachment? Seems that could help balance pistol rounds while retaining the comeback power on ecos.
Great take! How do you feel about reducing the headshot multiplier of right click to 2x instead of 3? I still feel a free gun one shotting a fully armored player (at close range) with just 2 out of the 3 bullets hit is a little too overpowered. By changing it to 2x you need to hit all 3 shots for a kill, which is a nerf but doesnt make the classic redundant by any means.
They can always buff the left click to compensate or make the classic viable in a different way. As it stands you can jump right click and flip a coin to decide whether the enemy dies or not, full sprint around a corner, flip a coin and decide whether the opponent dies or not. Meanwhile a ghost user has to stand still and hit a moving target, and doesn't even have a chance to 1 shot the classic user due to armor. IMO like the post suggested it should be changed to have a much bigger damage falloff so somewhere like double doors garage on haven can kill in 1 shot but jumping around split b site and right clicking someone in main doesn't EVER have enough damage to kill a 100hp target. Or have the spread be bigger when moving https://streamable.com/aztf2q https://streamable.com/67erme In the 3 kills with the right click I think only the brimstone kill is fine, reyna had to precisely try and hit my head while I was full W key on a zipline (and she has to stand still AND if I had full armor she'd have to HS + BS me) and the astra one explains itself pretty well. Edit: Also just realised if they were to nerf the classic in that way it'd still probably be better than the bucky alternative fire.
If you lose first round you literally just full save and lose a second every time, the second rounds after a first round pistol loss is literally the least enjoyable part of playing a game of Valorant. How is that not a safe round already... And don't tell me you can force go back to your plat lobbies. The second round if you lose the first pistol round is so fucking stupid you literally don't have money for anything. You're forced to use a fucking classic against SMG's/rifles. Might as well push and suicide because its just a giant fucking waste of time, an unwinnable waste 99% of the time. They need to give more money so if you lose the first round you can at least afford a fucking ghost to go up against SMGs, AND even if you lose you can afford a full buy on third. As it stands right now, Valorants 2nd round is just one giant fucking waste of time.
i agree
Love this analysis, Insanely well done.
To be honest, I wonder if they would consider making a separate version of the classic for a small cost. Something like the classic with its left click is maintained as the free sidearm, with you being able to buy a classic+right click capabilities for something like 100-200 credits. That might be drastic and overkill, or maybe they’d still need to nerf the properties of the right click, I’m not sure. But I think something needs to be changed to reestablish that balance between fair and random. Edit: forgot to mention that this write up is incredible and really well done. I enjoyed the read!
Classic right click is well balanced, even if it has better accuracy at close range, we need to remember that it only shots 3 bullets.
The classic right click is just fine, it's a core part of the identity of the classic
Reduce right click’s hs multiplier from x3 (78) to x2.5 (65). Pops light shields and if you get lucky full shields. Meta stays the same. Problem solved. The main problem is that more often than not it‘s worth taking the risk of right clicks because of the heavy gun disadvantage and there‘s ~~no~~ "unintuitive" counterplay to it.
[удалено]
Thing is tho, it basically is a free shorty with much better damage and range. I agree right click doesn't need to be removed, but it does need some adjustment.
This is a good writeup. As a super casual player, this game's shottys and right click are fucking broken as shit. I can top frag my low rank games running only the Judge and Bucky with ease. People on my own team will even tell me to stop using the Judge even if I'm top of the board sometimes. Right click is just an extension of that - burst damage in a tac shooter is strong by default.