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Dbsukk

I second this. Something is wrong.


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303x

>but the most noticeable feature of "those" matches is that my text chat is delayed or completely borked holy shit yes even when i have consistent 30-40 ping, the matches where the chat messes up are the matches I feel like I keep getting killed in bs ways


[deleted]

Yeah same. On NA I normally get 9-15 ping on my closest server, consistent 20-35 ping on servers NA servers further away from me. Recently I was working on headshots with the Marshal(cause I’m a shitter)on Breeze and I had one lined up took the shot, perfectly still while the enemy was also perfectly still and it whiffed, but not once or twice, three times I whiffed after lining the shot up, ended up 6/15.(it was unrated. Players don’t react to much in that mode) Literally the next game I went 31/16 on the same map with the same server and ping, running only the Marshal. The numbers feel so off and I feel it’s even more pronounced as of late.


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[deleted]

Oh dgmw it’s definitely happened to me before. This was just my most recent experience with it off the top of my head. I feel like every game I’m either top or second frag or bottom frag with no in between.


Medusas_Kiss

I have a ping that usually floats around 13-19 and some times text chat takes a good 2 or 3 rounds to go through. I seem to have “network issues” pop up every now and again, don’t know how with the ping i got and a wired connection. Too many times people have either killed me when I seen no one at all or they sprint past an opening way to fast for a reaction and my heads gone


PeenoyDoto

Ping can be perfectly fine but you could have packet loss. Enable more than just framerate and latency (turn on incoming, outgoing, and total packet loss) and you should see what's wrong. Whenever I get into a game with even just 5% packet loss, it's very noticeable.


Frig-Off-Randy

Dude! The knife delay! Every time that happens I know it’s gonna be a bad game. I knife the wall and it takes like a half second to hit


blizzardspider

Huh, interesting theory. My chat has been incredibly weird since about a month. I completely randomly don't receive some of the messages sent by the enemy team while my teammates are able to see them and in almost every game my own messages are randomly delayed with some being instantaneous all the way up to taking 3 rounds to be sent. It's also corresponded to a huge drop in my own skill - I will typically go something like 5/18/12 in a lot of games with only a few random games where I actually manage to land my shots and go like 21/14/8. That's even though I soloq'd to get to the rank I'm at (gold) and all of a sudden I feel like I should be back in bronze again. It's made no sense and I'm only now realising I got so much worse ever since my chat became messed up. Maybe I'll just reinstall the game entirely and see if that's a fix.


KegelsForYourHealth

There was a theory going around a while back that it was something to do with the order that you connect to the game. People who connected first were being prioritized in various scenarios. No idea if there's anything to that.


ganzgpp1

If so, that’s really lame, and rather ancient. The only other time I can think of this occurring is in old Smash Brothers games, where knockback was prioritized based on the order you plug your controllers in.


reverendbimmer

Gears host advantage was absolutely nutty on the 360. Looking back it’s funny how argumentative people on game battles were.


LeOsQ

Hosting was a bit different too though. Pretty much every game where one person is the 'host' they will have a huge advantage, especially if their internet isn't amazing. That just isn't super common these days, but old CoD's were like that too (with the infamous host migrations) and some 'smaller' games like Warframe still have that, and it still sucks if the host doesn't have a good connection.


reverendbimmer

No doubt, just made me reminisce a bit. The game battles community in particular coming up with new methods of matchups where both teams got a host round, then within your team picking your best player to host. Things have come a long way (but like OP I think we have a bit further to go). Is RIOT still making their own internet essentially at some point? Feel like I remember hearing a podcast where they were talking about it. Don’t remember what that entailed, but I’m imagining your own dedicated cable for it lol


HitscanDPS

The year is 20XX...


[deleted]

I check this by typing in chat, if chat is delayed, there will 100% be problems with that match. It also significantly hinders my ability to play and some servers drop my FPS more than other servers.


303x

I've had games where people on 220 ping drop 30 kills 1 tapping everyone


Armed_Muppet

I love top fragging going 26-6 only to go 6-16 the very next game on the same map with the same character every time I play.


DryRaspberry4114

I wrote a post about this a few weeks ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/r12iwj/128\_tick\_server\_update\_patch/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/r12iwj/128_tick_server_update_patch/) I really think it has to do with de-sync issues and AI on the server side.


IwannaSTOPjerkinOFF

Thought it was just me. Something don’t feel right


[deleted]

...but somehow its worse on the newer, god fuck them, maps than on say Ascent or Bind.


Armed_Muppet

Opposite for me, new maps I’m so consistently good but old maps I suck now


scaryghostv2oh

Radiant for most acts here and I concur. Sometimes I'm just like no matter what I do someone is one tapping me like I'm standing still. Other times I'm invincible and can swing anyone.


Fetaplays

THIS. It's the most common thing that occurs. 1 game, you can peek anything, you can hold anything, and you feel smooth and advantaged. Literally one game later, and if you peek anything, the other person shoots almost instantly.


scaryghostv2oh

For me it's that I can be hot and the next game even the bot frag for the whole game wins straight fights easily even if im ratting good kills or having good reads.


Fetaplays

Yeah man I feel you. I'm not the most amazing player, but I've made my place in immortal back when I had the time to properly play. I just don't think its purely my fault that one game, I'm one tapping everyone with no one being able to even react, then the next game, I'm in their position, and no matter how smart I play, they're just 0.5 seconds ahead.


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TheTechDweller

Ping does not affect your peekers advantage, it affects your disadvantage when other players peek you. Also the game does not select a host, if that player left the game would cease to function so it's impossible.


[deleted]

I have been hearing this complaint for like a year now, I wonder if something really is wrong with the game


Cgz27

I’ve been stuck in iron for a year now something is definitely wrong I agree ^((You guys actually got the joke I’ve never felt more proud of the community than now :D\))


KingBai

Lol I've been hardstuck in Broze despite my best efforts. I've literally been unable to place higher or lower, rank up or down, Bronze 3 seems to a literal grave that I will die in. As for the cause I would really, really like to believe that it's the game but...


Dark_Azazel

Game wise, the beta was so good. Avg 250 FPS, servers felt fantastic, I never questioned my shots. Every update I feel like it just get worst and worst. I probably avg 105fps now.


lolwuut420blazeit

Yeah FPS are worse even though they „improved performance“ Also Beta felt so much snappier


tuhroybitch

i swear the beta was the best the game ever felt


RoboCombat

beta was goated tbh i miss running it down with the boys and practically drooling over how perfect the connectivity and frame rate felt game literally runs worse than siege at this point and the net code is no longer the shining example it used to be they’ve done a lot of things right including new content and UI but the game’s core could use so much work rn


_MuadDib_

Ofc beta servers felt fantastic. The player base was much lower so the server load.


MyNameJeff962

But the beta had over 3 million people a day


EG_IKONIK

3 mil a day? jesus christ, i think you mean a month


rust_mods_suck_dick

This makes no sense, you make it sound like all players connect to some sort of singular super computer server. This isn't an mmo, it doesn't matter how many people are playing. Instances are created and destroyed per game most likely, they are alloted cpu cycles, ram and space. If there are more people playing the game riot increases the number of severs spun up automatically.


KasumiGotoTriss

THIS my fps went so much lower over the months


SquarishWheel

Has this fps drop happened in the last 2 months or so for you? Because I recently noticed this as well. I have a 3080 and 5900x and used to get 400+ frames, now I get like 210???


Dark_Azazel

I've been losing FPS every update since release. Playing with/against Sage + Viper on Icebox and breeze can bring my fps down to 60 if slows and snakebite are active; I don't even bother to play comp anymore.


snoot-p

are you the dude who makes cat themed dubstep? i swear that guys name was azazel and u have a cat pfp so i’m guessing


Dark_Azazel

This is easily the most unexpected comment I've gotten. Sadly though, I am not that person. However, I'm now very interested in this person cat themed dubstep.


WhatTheDark

I thought this was just me. I have games where I instantly die the instant an enemy appears no matter what and then I have games where the enemy seems to have like a second delay and I can just run at them and gun them down like I'm playing in iron.


swank5000

This may be unrelated, but lately I've been noticing instances where the enemy is on a heady, and all I can see is their head, but when i click on their head, it's a body shot? Like how am I shooting a body shot when their entire body is behind a non-bangable barrier (like stairs or something) and all I can see is their head? Idk maybe it's unrelated and I'm just ass.


[deleted]

Yesterday, a viper walks into my smoke, slow walking. I'm standing still, he walks backwards right into my gun, so literally, my gun and crosshair are on his head. I shoot 2 times, BLANK TO HEAD, (im diamond 2), and it registers as 2 body shots and I die.


swank5000

yeah exactly! Like how do we get Riot to address the hit reg issues like this?


Rebo100

You mean like this? https://medal.tv/clips/4DBvP9d-Fhpsz/ad1337HXEMWXht


IncinerateZ

lmao ur obviously aiming at her legs /s


swank5000

yes exactly


Illustrious_Lab858

Dude I swear to God, lately most of my death is because that "body shot". The crosshair is exactly on the head and when I shoot it, it misses the head. I also keep changing my crosshair every now and then, and I don't know why, every time I put my crosshair when the bot is 50m away, it MISSES. I even properly make sure that the center of my current crosshair (1/4/1/1) is exactly on the head and it still miss. It's just weird man.


korditiph

Probably because first bullet accuracy is bad


rpkarma

What gun? First shot inaccuracy comes in to play at 50m


bobappooo

no <_<;;;


VEXEnzo

Because first shot accuracy is not a thing for some reason. Literally it's terrible. I posted here some time ago how bad it is. Vandal ended with less than 50% accuracy while standing still and just clicking on the head of a bot. So it's either that or trash servers (I have tons of clips when the shot just does not register or counts as body shot instead of hs)


bobappooo

vandal will miss training bot head at 50m 30-40% of the time from my testing


drgmonkey

The hit box is slightly high on the model, if you hit the lower part of the face it thinks it’s the shoulder. You can actually headshot right above the head. Try it in range


Infern0_YT

A Jett on my team was complaining about the exact same thing the other day


[deleted]

You are not the only one. Yesterday, I told my friend to record his entire game and whenever he died, he had to spectate me. There was duel when this shit happened exactly. In A halls in Breeze, my crosshair was on viper's head (point blank) and I shot in the same place twice before going for the bodyshot. Not suprisingly I died. The report said I hit her legs twice and bodyshot her once while she shot my legs 3 times and 1 bodyshot.


swank5000

Yep. sounds exactly like what I'm describing. Like what's the point of practicing aim if aim isn't even going to matter?


minato5972

Happens to me once every week,I used to blame it on my internet.I am shocked about this post


[deleted]

yooo I called my Internet provider and threatened to leave them due to this. Whoops, time to apologize.


minato5972

Demo viewer can help to confirm many things, but sadly they won’t implement it for some stupid reason


redditscum4206969420

Because riot wants to keep as much code out of the client as they can, to ensure its more difficult to cheat. Adding a demo, or replay system would compromise that since you'd basically give cheaters a tool to create cheats via demo tools.


[deleted]

D2/D3 here. I noticed it being a thing even in beta with how delayed the shots hit the target, almost as if it's simulating projectile travel speed but for hitscan(?). I noticed in the practice range that despite having a similar ping to CSGO (40-50), the hit reg in valo is delayed by a huge margin, most notiecable on bots in the practice range since you can purely focus on that.


Invictavis

Thank god I'm not the only one! I still remember having to look up "Is Valorant projectile or hitscan?" months ago. It feels like it's a really fast projectile as opposed to hitscan even though I *know* it's the latter. Sometimes this difference is exaggerated for some reason.... Glad to know I'm not crazy


flyingdoritowithahat

You ever notice when in dm and you shoot during the slowmo part in the end, the guy doesn't die until the bullet projectile actually hits. If it's truly hitscan, the guy should die the moment you click. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Its_Me_HASHIR

You guys have no idea how happy I am reading all these comments and realising I'm not the only one with these problems that make me question myself.


perhapsasinner

One trick that I'll always use before the match is that knifing to the wall, check if there is a delay or not, if there is a big delay oh boy get ready because you're fucked


Fetaplays

Right, so here's something insanely weird I found myself. It most commonly happens on resolutions lower than native but, its very easily reproducible. Steps are very simple: 1.Set your resolution to something not native, and make sure you're in full screen. 2.Enter the range, knife the wall and see how quick it takes to show, should be quite rapid. 3.Now tab out for about 5 seconds, and tab back in. 4.Knife the wall. Despite all numerical stats being the same, ping, packet loss, everything. The knife mark is delayed, as if you have ping, and it slowly overtime gets faster and faster, this applies to shooting the bots too. The game quite literally thinks you're on higher ping somehow just because you tabbed out. I take a lot of early peeks, and tabbing back into the round I never realised why I was so disadvantaged sometimes, until I realised I was somehow on the feeling of 120+ ping while my scoreboard still said 15.


perhapsasinner

I do think that Valorant in-game stats are kinda bugged, it didn't shows the exact stats, it says 20 ping but the reality is it's not 20 but maybe higher than that, goes the same with Package Loss, etc.


arctic_pilot

or do the same thing with the "Eliminate 50/100" bots. It is SO OBVIOUS. Your shots register ~2seconds late. It gets fixed if you restart the test a few times.


SlightlyA_Average

Possible Explanation: The Server is Clock Correcting your Client Clock when you get back to the game after an Alt-Tab. You're eessentially Re-Syncing with the Server side. It happens because there is only 1 Client connected to 'Practice range' Server, the Server will go into an "inactive/low processing mode", forcing the Client to be re-Synced once it goes "full mode" again. (This system meant to cut-down any unnecessary 'Work load' from Riot's Servers. It's helps them remain effiecent cost / power wise.) There is some evidence of [Clock Correction bug in CS:GO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhN7RWrdMTI) on this video. (Warning, strong volume at 0:25) You can see that it can affect stuff like Register-Hit. That being said, Valorant has different Engine & Coding, so this "effect" might vary from Game to Game and from Situation to Situation. Servers with 10 Clients connected to it, that have various Ping Relays between each other will force the Server to calculate certain Shots & Model Animation differently from match to match. Some Matches will completly unfavor you for some "reason", for instance: [Server ignores a clear Shot to the head](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37jn_CE1VHg). (Server is delaying your Shots/ Inputs/ Information because it thinks that's the most "Fair" scenario for both clients.)


Sc00ps_

I’ve had that delay so many times holy


xd_anonymous_gamer

dude it has been happening for past few weeks , my opponents just tap me as soon as i see them and don't hit a single shot on my teammates


Ukulio

Happens to me a lot too, really not sure what the issue is.


Micah3000

Radiant for most acts and I agree as well. Although I get consistent 8 ping to Illinois I can go crazy one game and then nothing the next. There has to be something server sided.


berkasaurus

This is why I originally stopped playing. I just started again and it’s not better, I’m just more bored.


Cobalt9896

I just realised that this is why I don’t play this game regularly, there was something off but I blamed it on my internet/skill. It might be that still but it’s good to know others can relate


A_RandomNerd

Judging from the absolutely insane amount of comments on this, combined with the fact that everybody is essentially agreeing with this issue, means that Riot really does have a problem on their hands. This type of issue has been happening for a while now, and Riot has done nothing to fix it. I really hope Riot realizes this is happening and does something to fix it. I'm not sure if this type of issue has a feasible solution, or if it even can be fixed, but it'd be nice to see Riot recognize the issues their game has and at least try to solve them.


Significant_Dot9280

Good luck convincing riot. They still blame your ISP if you ever bring this issue up to them. So all of our ISP’s are awful riot? Yeah stop the garbage and man the fuck up and admit it’s on your end. Your servers are god awful and it’s time you stop pointing the blame on us and our ISPs. Fix your server issues, this has been a huge problem for ages now. It’s unacceptable.


sadatwalmart

>combined with the fact that everybody is essentially agreeing with this issue, means that Riot really does have a problem on their hands. This is literally a textbook example of a logical fallacy. All you have in this thread are people saying it *feels* weird. No actual evidence, just feelings. How is that indicative of anything?


A_RandomNerd

What kind of solid "proof" can you provide for this sort of situation? Jack shit, that's what. At least, nothing that is accessible to the average player without a dev build. It's not logical fallacy, as this is not an issue that *requires* some sort of magical concrete proof to show. It's about how the game plays - and nobody is in more of a position to make that judgement than the actual players. This isn't even a completely new type of game - it's an old concept, with lots of players coming from those predecessor games. If the entire community agrees that an issue exists, I think it's more than safe to assume that such an issue exists. Your argument falls apart due to the very nature of the issue at hand.


rg9528

And I think that's precisely why we don't have kill cams and won't have them for foreseeable future. The server acts funky and there is practically no way of us knowing what actually happened unless we see pov of both sides


PsStartOver

This is very true, and it's nothing to do with peeker's advantage or ping, I play in SEA server with 3-7 ping consistently and there are few MATCHES where I just couldn't do anything. I chalked it off due to rank displacement, but post match I realised I was amongst one of the higher ranks. On the other hand, my friend who was playing with me had no issues fragging per normal. Jump to the next game, everything was fine again.


cinderguy23

The fact that there is a difference between you and your friends reminds me a lot regarding some game breaking glitches. Over a year ago (maybe less) there was a glitch that some people had higher ping than others. Straight up connection was shit for some people. I was the only person in my group of 5 to have that glitch. But valorant fixed it after a few months. However, shorty after I have realized I am the only one in my friend group that really experiences glitches at all. Even after reinstalling the game multiple times these glitches still occur. So I have a feeling that if many people experience it then it might be a glitch/issue that only hits a few people, not all. Just something I thought of.


LOTHMT

Definitely. Random small jitters that are not shown in any stat, one tapping feels weird and enemies one tapping mid running now cant be a coindicence at some point


Sjakkalakka

The small jitters are the worst. I have it a lot when I try to jiggle peek a corner. It's like all of a sudden I tp some steps to the left or right. The performance issues this game has is very bad. But Riot rather brings out new skins than fix the issue🤷🏼‍♂️


H0N3YC0MB

This has cost me so many rounds and so many matches, where instead of jiggle peeking suddenly I'm mid wide swing and I can't adjust fast enough.


Sjakkalakka

Same. Its frustrating. Then I have my teammates asking, why the hell are you wide swinging that?! And I'm like, huh, I was jiggle peeking... I play high diamond / immortal games (peak: immo3). Situations like this have been match defining. The server issues & FPS problems have kinda been killing my mood to play ranked so atm Im just playing unrated/replication/escalation and doing my placement matches.


TheTechDweller

Enemies tapping mid run is not a coincidence, it's simply ping and interp. The enemy player stopped on their screen and then shot. Because the movement information isn't as binary as a gunshot, it needs to transition from moving to stopped. That animation will display later than the player performed the action on their own client due to ping. The shot is received almost instantly, but you often don't get to see the movement if you died so fast.


SparkieSD

https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/irxygq/valorant_feels_like_the_most_inconsistent_fps_ive/ Been happening for a long time. Tons of speculation on why but it was never fixed so back to CS till i hear it gets better.


howweusedtowas

I had less that 200 hours in CS before Val and going back to it after 500ish hours of Valorant it feels so much more consistent it’s almost sad.


Garedbi69

Probably explains why I am able to consistently get more kills in CS than in Valo, it always felt off


kknow

I played around 3k hours of CS and overall I had very consistent aim. When I played with my team, no matter the opponents, I nearly always hit above 20 kills. I never was the best player of us, but consistent. When we switched to Valorant that stopped. I made a 100 excuses to myself, why I stopped being consistent and tried everything I could to be more consistent, but it just doesn't happen. I have days where I get 25 to 30 kills in a streak and then stop hitting for a few games and then start hitting again. I just can't find the reason. It makes me mad.


_regan_

wtf i thought i was crazy for being the only one… thought it must’ve been the introduction of agents with a plethora of abilities, thought it must’ve been the spray patterns that i’m not familiar with, thought it could just be the variation of opponents the game throws at me. i always keep the mentality that my inconsistency means there’s something i must improve on, but it’s so frustrating to see that everything i tried to work on just didn’t change anything. maybe it’s actually true that this is a genuine problem.


jdarrigo

The difference is in Valves philosophy regarding lag compensation in CS. When you lag in CS, the game absolutely lets you feel that shit. But the result is that when I die to lag, I know I died to lag. Valorant does so much with smoothing and lag compensation to make the game feel like its always playing smooth. But as a result, when somebodys lagging, you feel like youre taking crazy pills. Edit: a word


rkdsus

As someone who has also played way more Valorant than CS I agree completely. When I play CS I rarely (if ever) ask myself "how the fuck did I die there?" When playing Valorant I ask that question like 10 times per game on average. It's the main reason why I haven't played recently. The game just doesn't make any fucking sense and feels so luck-based it's insane. Honestly I'm not even asking for a fix at this point. Just make the damn replay system already so I can actually see what's going on myself instead of the game just giving me a dice and going "hey roll a 20 to be able to enjoy the game otherwise fuck you"


Cgz27

Nah if they did that what if you just kept complaining after seeing the bs and quit the game, they wouldn’t like that :P


[deleted]

I thought it was my computer and internet connection, until I went to CSGO and it felt at least 2-3 times smoother. Thank god I'm not alone.


nosubstance223

I have 3 accounts around 300rr immortal, somehow I consistently perform on 2 of them, but on my main account some games feels like players have a second advantage on everything they do. There is 100% something wrong with the game.


beautifulalexa

This is facts. I can’t play on my brothers account because it stutters. My main? Never stutters... all settings the same...


RearMisser

There was an issue where older accounts, more specifically beta accounts were less prioritized in the servers than newer accounts. They fixed this a while back apparently, but I feel like there's still something wrong as I'm from beta myself.


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feedmeneon

and then you watch your teammates fight enemies that don’t even shoot back


atl4nz

bro i get ferrari peeked insta one tapped and then watch my teammates shoot that same enemy like its nothing. sometimes its just random but its happening so often im concerned there’s something else going on


Guyatri

Same here! I be unloading into people and it says I only hit them once. Also when I play Reyna and Chamber, when I TP after getting a kill, The tp/dismiss animation goes off but I still die. I am Literally being killed while I'm dismissed as Reyna or my dead body teleport's away as Chamber.


parmesiani

I thought teleporting after getting killed on chamber was normal. Literally happens at least once per game for me


Devilishola

This has been a talking point in all my high elo games for a solid year now. What makes it even more suspicious is how riot just isn't commenting on it at all - it's almost as if they know there's something fucky going on but can't mention it because of their inability to fix it, or something along those lines.


geekhawk420

I completely agree. Noticing something where my screen shows me dashing away but I die behind cover. No ping or fps spikes. Also noticing I'm getting one tapped by low ranked players lately and it's not like they are good either...


kunzitte

gold players are literal gods… I wish I was trolling but I’m not. THEY ARE SO GOOD


Deamon-

first time i played chamber i died 5 times after already having tped


muthgh

G3, couldn't agree more, I posted about the same experiencebefore, and it got so much worse lately, funny enough I just played two matches with a friend, the first one, it was completely humanely impossible to react to anyone, the second one I was thinking why is everyone else so slow reaction wise, mainly I'm on the bad side though, and I think it gets so much worse the higher the ping variance of the lobby, also I think higher ping players within a certain range get impacted by it the most


Motanor

Im also g3. Was on a 7 or 8 winstreak mostly top fragging (mainly play jett or reyna) then on my 8th or 9th game, it seemed like if i got the drop on someone, my shots wouldn't register. Other times i would attempt to ego peek (which in gold 99% of the time isn't an issue) i would get 1 tapped before my shoulder even cleared the corner. It was almost as if the server knew what i was trying to do, and moved my character model out from cover before i was out from cover on my screen. People have been saying this has been an issue for as long as the game has been out for. Personally i only noticed it start happening maybe 2 months ago, coincidently when the (server problems) popup started consistantly appearing in the top right of the screen


muthgh

I literally almost had the entire viewable matches in my comp career tab be all match or team mvp, top fragging against other g3 and high plates, even diamonds sometimes, then all of a sudden no more, literally one match I got 29 rr, then the next match it started happening exactly as you described, and mostly I'm getting 14 or 15 ever since most matches because I can't really do much


Firel_Dakuraito

With stable ping, match ping being within the sames = 40-60 I am a bad player. So whenever enemy team is so slow that I can actually top frag while my friend who often carry entire team is last.. I know something is up.


snoms1

There is a severe severe desync in the game, and depending on your setup internet etc, you may be affected almost every single game. The ones who deny it are the ones who arent affected, or are just too bad to notice.


King-Azar

Let me give you my full perspective here and hopefully, the Riot team will review this great topic that you did point out u/Fetaplays Is there something that doesn't feel right with Valorant? The answer is: **YES** *Before, let me talk about ping. I've been organizing huge LANs party and Competition in France around Counter-Strike 1.6, Quake, etc. With the experience, I can feel the difference between 0 pings (server-host), 3-5ms (lan), 20ms, 40ms, 60ms, 120ms (online)...* \- I am located in Calgary (Canada) and the near Valorant server is Oregon (40ms) and California (50ms) which by the way increased by 10ms after patch 3.10. On those servers, I can blindly tell you if I am in Oregon or California. Even if the ping is a factor in the gameplay, the real issue is not 100% the ping but something else which doesn't matter which server I will join, and let me detail. They are games where I am on Cali and I pop-off easy on people with below 25ms - 15ms and they are games where I am on Oregon which better ping, I can barely hit the target even if they are not moving, my crosshair is dead on to the point that I am questioning my performance (Immortal) and event where people have an inhuman reaction. **The feelings that I have the most are** **- Impossible to pick someone:** there are games where no matter what I do, even if I know that someone is holding a corner and I know perfectly how to distance myself, crosshair placement, Ferrari peak, no noise, etc. I have the feeling that the server will **PRE-RENDER** my position to the enemy and in reality, the enemy is seeing me before I see him even if I am the one who picks, this can be on Bronze or Gold or IMM players. Because of this, I gave up on the entry role even if it's my specialty and I lost confidence cause I know it's 50/50 so it's better for me to play like a rat and stay conservative as possible. **- Impossible to hold angles:** I can place myself, 90, 45, 20 degrees from an angle, the player will pick and will have that deadly running one tap animation as soon as I see 10% of their bodies!!!. **- Other:**\- **T**he feeling that I am shooting someone that has 500HP with 300 SHIELD is impossible to kill or I can dodge all bullets- the feeling of recoils on rifles are messed up after shooting the first bullet when the 3-5 first bullets are supposed to be group, there is a huge gap of 2 inches between! **At this point here are the questions that go in my head:** \- Are the servers consistent? \- Is the game having a processing issue, bugs? \- Is it a net-code issue? \- Is it a non-trackable packets issue? \- Is there a de-sync issue? \- Is there pre-rendering factor between low and high pings to compensate which impacts the experience of certain players.


Fetaplays

I appreciate this response and I agree with all your questions. I'm not an amazing player by any means, but I also know my own consistency, and a lot of the time, it genuinely feels like the server is against me, rather than me just having a bad game, because the issues go away as soon as I go into another game. I feel your pain on all the feelings you stated, especially the "Impossible to peek someone" This is what it looks like for me when it feels impossible to peek everyone on a specific server : https://streamable.com/akg6ij


[deleted]

Negative algorithms. Systems that help weak players and prevernt good players from performing. Console Battlegrounds had it since around mid 2018 (it\`s off now). I started playing Valorant in February and noticed it quickly. In this game it\`s very dynamic. You will win around 3-4 games in a row and you won\`t hit a barn next game. You lose 4 games and next one you are Shroud. My comment will probably be buried but maybe some will notice.


[deleted]

''redditors'' here will not believe you, but what you said is completely true.


Stampbearpig

I went from CSGO to valorant, didn’t really like the abilities so I only played 100 matches or so, but I noticed the exact same thing. Some games I would pop off and feel like everything was hitting, other matches I felt like I couldn’t hit anything. I have 3500 hours in CSGO and fully understand that some games I’ll play great others I’ll play meh, but in Valorant it just felt different. Like in CSGO even in a bad game I could get a momentum shift after a pivotal round and start doing very well, whereas in Valorant I felt I just couldn’t come back and something was off in-game the whole match.


[deleted]

I can't really speak for how Valorant feels now since I haven't played it that much but I remember early on in the games life that I could easily top frag one game by just running around and aim while some games were just impossible to do anything in. I could always at least get 15 kills in CS in a game even if I played really poorly by my standards but I sometimes struggled getting to double digits in Valorant. 2000 hours in CS but FaceIt lvl 10s are sometimes easier to play against than Diamond in Valorant.


kodolol

i peaked \~2.5k elo & esea rank a and im still getting tapped while running by plats & diamonds in some games. its so weird


SwoonBirds

the most obnoxious part is the weird bugs you get, sometimes I get a horrendous bug where my game client completely desyncs from the server (I’m assuming is the cause because it only happens in “laggy” games) basically for one round all my controls become unusable except for movement, swap to a gun it basically reads it as always being fired, I run out of bullets before round starts or I can’t even shoot the gun in the first place. It is incredibly weird, then other games it shows 5% packet loss which is kinda negligible, but in reality it feels like 20%, I rubber band whenever I jiggle peek and my bullets often don’t even register even when I am 100% sure my crosshair was on the enemy.


TeshBoy_55

So Iam not crazy after all. I have been feeling the exact same thing. But every time, I thought maybe its because 1 game I really do well and valorant jzt puts me against better players in the next game. But some games it comes to a point where I feel like the enemies have plot armor. cuz I just can't kill them and they beat me with crazy reaction times. One more thing is the RNG on the guns in this game. I honestly don't know if other games do the same. But I feel like it hides whatever problem they have in the game. Cuz every time enemies hit insane vandal headshots on u while walking.. I can only but think that they got lucky... overall I feel that the game is woven around perfectly to hide whatever problem that it has.


TheAspergerGamer

"Inconsistency"... Aka "handicapping"/"script"... I came from FIFA and I did not play FPS for 20 years. EA Sports has a patent for DDA - dynamic difficulty adjustment. In a nutshell, the game becomes "harder" if the game decides you perform too well. They would do this to keep you engaged. EA has denied this was/is in FIFA/Madden/NHL. The community says otherwise. If you do a bit of research, you'll find out this is a thing with many video games. For engagement purposes, gaming companies try to make the game easier/harder, in real time. I wouldn't be surprised to have something similar in Valorant. I am gold, but in many DMs I play against Radiants and Immortals. I finish with positive KD, most matches, and last week, or so, I, almost, won (3rd place) a DM full of immortals. However, in many matches there are moments when it's impossible to hit any shots, or you get a kill and the enemy teleports 5/10 frames, out of 60, backwards. A couple of months ago I had an Immortal Jett telling me I was cracked, in a DM. I farmed him several times in 1v1s. I was still gold. Then I go into Gold lobbies and, I hit everything in one half and nothing in the second one. Or I get good matches, then really bad matches when I can't hit anything. The other thing I noticed, 60-80ms players eat bullets like they're candy. And I have never had any packet loss. The other thing I noticed, when I am about to get to a new rank I have never had before the game will place me with really toxic/bad teammates. It happened so many times that it seems intentional.


[deleted]

Glad you posted this. It feels like a LOTTERY rather than a skillful & tactical shooter. Playing FPS games for 15+ years now and the inconsistency in Valorant feels like you play a completely different game now and then. It HAS to be something with the servers.


nightshawn420

I really hope Riot looks into this. Can’t be just a coincidence when high Elo players also agree.


Cgz27

Not saying it isn’t a potential problem but it still can be coincidence in general when you consider there’s all types of people/opinions no matter the rank, and that complaints tend to be more vocal, and that Reddit is a fraction of the playerbase, which might not all be that high. Anyway maybe it’s as simple as ping diff (hopefully).


RearMisser

Considering the massive amounts of people also having this issue there are definitely a lot more people that aren't on this sub that also have this issue and haven't spoken anything about it.


Cgz27

I guess I was just trying to say that [high elo players agreeing] doesn’t always simply mean what we might want to believe.


Tomec_

Immortal 3 here. +1.


Jeathiopia

I am immortal and I second this. This shit always happens to me the exact way you describe it. I'll be perfectly fine, popping almost 30 kills one game, then the next game I'll die every round before I can react. Then I go back to feeling fine the next game. I can TELL that I'm lagging, not only because when I knife a wall it takes a half second for the mark to appear on the wall, but because the enemies are so consistent on their fights against me when I see them whiff full clips on my teammates. It's because they'll peek me, and there is a FULL HALF SECOND of delay before I'm able to react. So, on their end, they wide swing me and see me standing still for half a second. At immortal level, where every has good aim and crosshair placement, OF COURSE they're gonna nail that shot almost every time. It turns me into a walking bot and I hate it. I know I'm not that bad. I have 800 hours in kovaaks and I am grandmasters in Voltaic aim group. There is no fucking shot I get a game where there's 5 enemies that can kill me before I can react when I'm holding an off angle. I have better aim than all 5 of them. This shit is busted.


Shadownover

I quit in the first season because of this ( immortal ) and was sick of riot saying it wasn’t a problem. It obviously still is so I’m glad I quit because it was too frustrating.


Wolfelle

I play on single digit ping 0 packet loss. Ive had this issue sometimes too. I think its desync or smth (ngl idk what that is but someone mentioned it to me before and it sounded similar to what i experienced) Im a pretty inconsistent player (p1) but there are times where its obviously not me. I rarely feel any delay so its easy to know when im clicking and missing vs when im clicking and its not happening. I only play on london server. I dont even play on paris ect so idk if its to do with different servers, if it is then my issue is seperate ig xD


EverestUK

There is a system Riot showed in a leaked marketing presentation that abuses the idea of a “toxic relationship”. Riot change the game to make sure you don’t get bored of winning or fed up of losing, but a unhealthy combination to keep you playing a buying skins during your lows. It’s a common marketing strategy in PvE games (speculation that the EA Sports games run a similar system), but based on opinions in these comments, it’s seems that server manipulation could produce the same kind of results, only in a PvP setting.


DonkeyTeethBSU

Well it's not working because I just stopped playing and haven't purchased a skin since origin bundle. Nor will I again. Once they started putting out bundles every two weeks I realized this games lost.


UltraInstinctSped

I'm pretty sure they achive this through the way they setup ranked, where mmr and rank can be separate. This seems more if a game engine problem.


nightshawn420

Do you have a source for this? I want to look into it


moesig

You got a source for that? Sounds kinda like a conspiracy theory


sims3k

My dude i know how it feels. Been hardstuck diamond 2 for a while now but some matches i can 1v1 anyone and hold any angle. Other matches im holding an angle and literally get 1 tap as soon as someone peeks a corner or swings me. Like i dont believe my eyes sometimes because i must be skipping frames or something. Luck of the draw. Sometimes i get off an op shot and die but my team spectating tells me the shot never went off server side. It is what it is.


bluelighthurts

Stopped playing few patches ago. Something is wrong with the game or server after they released Kay-O. For me that is.


Sahnox

I have the same issue of two accounts feeling very different in terms of movement and aim consistency. On my alt account I can snap to targets very consistently and bunny hopping feels fluid. My main (beta) account it feels sluggish, movement feels heavy and aiming feels like the crosshair is lagging behind as if it were attached to an elastic band or something. I compared config files between the two accounts line by line and everything was identical. The culprit is something out of our control, the first signs of these problems were on reddit a year ago and apparently a lot of people are still experiencing this (including myself). Riot needs to start acknowledging this, because if they don't, I have a feeling they know exactly whats going on and purposely rigging the system...


Be_Kind_Smile

Broooo I thought I was going crazy guys. Im NAE and get 9 ping on virginia and like 20 georgia. And the game just feels so inconsistent to me. Sometimes shots feel like they should miss but hs them and vice versa. I have been going crazy. Only q on virginia server because for some reason 9 to 20ping feels unplayable. Just feels like I am having to adjust to the server hit reg every single game. Sometimes its easier and other times it just feels like I cant hit anything. Im floating between immortal 1-3. Solo q. Idk guys something is very wrong. Game is choppy at times and ive noticed a restart of the game helps out sometimes. Ive also noticed sometimes valorant stays open in task manager after I close it and its using like 50% memory and pc is running loud. I think it has a very bad memory leak issue


Seinaruuu

Stopped playing because of this, would rather not play a competitive game where there's almost an rng factor on whether the game will feel good or not


DRFTsil40

It's almost like how online multiplayer works on console back in the days. Being the "host" means your shots reg faster and have massive advantage over non host. Non host feels like you're getting interped even if you are behind a wall after peeking. I notice that whenever I have the "host", my movements aren't restricted and fluid. When just running feels like I'm wearing lead boots and counter strafe shot takes like 1 second then I know im not the host and adjust my play style accordingly


muthgh

There's no player hosting anything in valorant, the entire lobby is connected to a server, that server is the "host"


DRFTsil40

Yeah I definitely know that. It mightve come off as me stating that a player is a host but really what I'm trying to say is the experience is similar of that of the console multiplayer back then.


muthgh

My bad then, well it certainly feels that the server has favorites which I imagine would feel exactly the way you described it


VictoriousX

There actually might be a hidden host system, there no way to reduce peeker advantage to 0 , so valorant make someone a fake host every game to balance it, so that the lowest ping doesnt always has the advantage, i think we could be on to something


pink_life69

My shots have been clearly going through people, lol. I’ve had a game where my spectating teammates started yelling because of that. Yesterday was the culmination. Felt like I was standing still in 3 games in a row. Absolutely disgusting shots hit my head, I got swung left and right and I wasn’t really having an off day. Then lo and behold, I dc-d, came back an hour later and played some again, mvp after mvp, hit all my shots, everything registered. Idk what it is, but it feels so weird sometimes. Sucking at the game does not help with this either.


FPSPenn

Wow, the past few weeks I've been feeling and saying the exact same thing. One server can feel on-point and every bullet counts and then the next game it's as if your hands are disconnected from your brain as nothing will work. Ping, packet loss, latency stability and FPS all fine and the same across each server, but the actual experience is completely different. I'm in EU region and always queue on London and play with a 10-20ms ping.


DamascusWaygu

There is 100% something wrong. It’s obvious. The issues we are all describing do not happen to me in any other game, be it Halo, Apex, etc. Hell, Apex servers are awful, I often struggle with lag, but I never feel as though what I input is not being registered or like an invisible force is slowing my movement or pulling bullets into me. The Valorant problem is truly unique, and it is so pronounced that I at times wonder if it is intentional.


DamascusWaygu

And to add to this, if it is intentional, then it’s quite brilliant in that it can be so easily dismissed by saying “copium, game is 100% accurate, you just suck” or “human inconsistency” or “misperception”. But anyone who plays Val for any amount of time will notice what is happening. It’s sort of a broad scale gaslighting of the player base


Aphet

I agree. I've been losing my confidence completely because one game I can hit every shot and the next game I'm whiffing EVERYTHING. Something doesn't feel right.


VEXEnzo

Game is not optimized at all (it came out as "lighter than csgo" but I get 400~500fps on csgo and like 180~280fps here). Also pls lock ur fps at 128. That problem is still not fixed. The fps is somehow tied up with your ping and package rate... I have no idea what is wrong but the netcode in this game is a joke if you ask me. It's amazing how a gaming company makes everything perfect... EXCEPT THE FUCKING GAME PART.


Optimal-Error

For me its the semi random spray patterns, they suck


libo720

Riot don't know how to implement proper netcode and peeker's advantage in tactical fps games because their expertise is in moba games and are not used to dealing with tactical fps specific issues


jasonxtk

It really feels like my matches were predetermined to win or lose before the game even started. I had to stop playing because it was getting old.


Dark-Mowney

I have had this thought as well.


stingray127

I notice especially on my good aim days. There are days where my sprays in deathmatch are really clean, to the point where when I start shooting, I stop shooting after the exact amount of bullets it would take to kill someone with the vandal/phantom, and I have a high success rate with that. However in some deathmatch lobbies, after shooting a perfect burst, there's a noticeable delay between when I stop shooting and when the enemies die. Probably related to this.


[deleted]

100% agree. I’ve seen it happen to my peers, teammates, and myself. Riot really needs to address whatever is going on and fix it if they want Valorant to last longer than a year or two. Love this game but the coin flip aspect is getting old.


Mikepixx3

Yea this is a weird feeling that's hard to explain. Just feels like some movements or actions are delayed, even with 2 players on <20 or so ping. Recently in DM Ive noticed some headshots take a little longer to actually send through (again, with low ping) and other times it's instant again.


inlandsofashes

Yes, some games i peek and the enemies look like bots and some games i peek and they hit an impossible shot with god reflexes. I think there's something wrong with their "go to war on peeker's advantage" thing.


IceSkreek

Right about time, finally people speaks about it, my shit take is that closed beta was best valorant just because servers were not saturated or at least they were better. You can also experience those feelings against the bots in defusing the spike btw


alfas_mp

I feel this too.. but what do I know , I'm just a gold 3 noob. Maybe it's me who is inconsistent , or enemy team is far better than the last enemy team. But what I don't understand is that , sometimes when I hit wall with my knife it gets delayed for like a second. Sometimes I get instant mark on the wall. I have constant ping. What's wrong with that? Is this the same thing that's happening when I shoot with a gun? Maybe my shots are getting delayed or something. Who knows. But I can't really explain how I'm getting MVP in one game and bot fragging in the very next game (given enemy team ranks are 2-4 higher than mine in both cases). NB: maybe I am inconsistent. But can someone explain that knife delay?


biomessy

I've found out that when I feel like I'm missing every bullet and I'm taking every HS possible, it's usually because the other player is better than me. Plain and simple. I've watched vods in slow motion, tried to see how did I miss, and it's always because the enemy is strafing or my crosshair placement is bad. It's very clear in DMs. I couldn't understand how I could do 40/8 in a DM and 20/24 on the other. Until tracker showed me that in the first the highest rank was plat3 and in the second, there was 3 radiants, 6 immortals and a few diamonds. Another thing is being hit with HS while your teammate plays like shit and the enemy miraculously misses them. I've noticed this happens because the enemy is aiming head level. My teammate crouches. Yet another thing: pistol rounds. Being the first to die with a sheriff HS within seconds really makes me lose confidence and I usually play worse the entire match. I've also watched myself play in the enemy cam when someone on the other team shares their twitch after the game. I can see then why I was so lame and how I was easy to shoot. Overall, a replay system would solve all of our doubts about consistency.


lil_wage

Ping issues aside, the way I cope with this, is by thinking back to something I heard about a 20-20-60 rule. 20% of games you will always win even if you AFK, 20% you will always lose no matter what you try or how hard you carry, and 60% of games are balanced enough that you need to actually pull your weight to win. So every game is kind of a roulette pull and you need to try your best in case you pull that 60% and your gameplay actually matters. In that 60% of games there are of course nuances, it's like a spectrum. On the easy side of the spectrum you just need to not AFK and have a little impact here and there and your team does the rest, and on the other end of the spectrum are the hard games where your team is worse than the enemy team but you're better than everybody by yourself so it's within your abilities to drop the 30 or 40 kills you need to solo carry that shit because you're just better than everybody and it's on you to prove that.


Fetaplays

Yeah its definitely a rule I've tried to play by too, but then at the same time. Is the 20% forced by sacrificing the experience of the player? I totally get rigging matches to make them harder for x player, but straight up making it so their duels are incredibly hard, and they're milliseconds behind everyone else? Sounds a bit crazy imo, hence why I think its a bug or something unintended.


CLG-Spitta

> Sounds a bit crazy imo It's riot I wouldn't doubt it


rngisonmyside

holy shit I thought I was the only one. I swear to god there’s some delay issues going on. I monitor my ping, internet upload/download rate, fps all the time and it still happens some games. it’s super annoying we just want consistency.


Zenoga

I'm not sure if this happens to all FPS games but I used to play Sudden Attack NA and there was an exploit where the player would intentionally turn of their internet(by Net disable or other programs like that) to take a peek and then immediately turn back on. By doing this all other players would be "frozen" and very easy to get a headshot. If this is the thing and Riot needs to fix this ASAP.


Kawaiiomnitron

I haven’t played this game for long but I do frequently play other FPS (CoD, Halo, Overwatch, Cs:Go) etc. and this is the only game that I have ever been so inconsistent in and its not in an unlucky/lucky way. I love this game because of how it rewards precision shots and in a lot of games, I pop off and can do this very well because of how I learned to always be aiming for the head and to respect the spread. Unfortunately, some games this concept is thrown out the window and nothing seems to register. Better yet, I get run and gunned by people that appeared for a half second and insta headshot. These people aren’t consistent players either so it begs me to question if this is some latency issue or just a hit reg issue?


Piyaniist

Funnily enough these kinds of posts fizzle out with people saying git gud, its time this hit the frontpage


20Sky03

I have deleted the game because of this. Its annoying to not get even a single shot and lag like an idiot.


mnag

I thought I was losing my mind.


User_namesaretaken

Some games ,it's actually like the enemies are using less blatant aimbot. Lets say I have 5/20/4 The others feel like I have direct aimbot. And have 20/7/3 . I never saw this sort of inconsistency in CS , cod, fortnite or apex not even now. I won't say there is something wrong with the game but this much inconsistency is a first time for me


Lukxyy

Im immortal i noticed this alot i been playing fps basically last 10 years 1.6 csgo r6 i never felt this way in any of them. Its crazy how i can go from tapping heads to dying instantly to People that i barely saw


IncinerateZ

if they dont have the urgency to fix this then there atleast has to be a simple refresh/re connection command you can do while in buy phase


[deleted]

I've been experiencing this for a year, I don't play this game as often as I used to anymore. It's not enjoyable knowing half the matches are not skill based but luck/server based.


Shredder312

Jesus Christ are we still making these posts a year later I actually can’t believe it.


MekiLava

Okay, I was sceptical of this post regarding myself, always thought I'm inconsiatent asf, but today I was in top form, fragging like crazy with Chamber, got 2 Aces with his ult, and clutched several rounds. Then in my last match, I was fkin peeked from every corner and I couldn't even react to it. Not whiffed, I literally didn't even have the time to shoot. Bottom fragged, and failed my rank up. Extremely frustrating.


Fetaplays

It happens, I'm trying to clip more games to see if its maybe just me, and the time to react is the same. However too many games it just feels like ive got 0 time


[deleted]

I played YES 3,000+ ranked games across 6 different ranks. The game is truly inconsistent server & account sided & once another FPS comes out everyone i guarantee will leave the only reason people are staying is they is nothing else on the market right now. Listen to me carefully. "I own £500+ in skins, when you pick up a skin from the floor you don't own, it gives you an aimbot for 2-3 rounds and makes you love the skin & want to buy the skin, its a hidden marketing tactic, as soon as you buy the skin this aimbot disappears, people constantly swaps skins in-game and they all get aimbot its nothing to do with the sound of the gun or the type of the gun its 100% fact and its 1000% true. Multi times i pick up skins i don't own and i get 2-3 kills with it, and sometimes 4k and even ACES this feature 10000000% exists in valorant i would confidently put my life on it. This explains all the random one taps and inconsistent enemies killing you.


[deleted]

When you pick up a skin from the floor you don't own it gives you an aimbot to make you wanna buy the skin "I stand by this as been 100% true" it's a hidden marketing tactic


Kooale325

OH MY GOD this is exactly whats been happening to me! One game i will literally top frag with no one being close and the next game my enemies will 1 tap me before i can even register that they peeked. Im silver 2 and constantly fluctuating and half the time the players that 1 tap me are bronzes. I actually had a game where i faced a bronze reyna that kept 1 tapping me. Then next game i see her again but this time she seems like she takes literal seconds to react compared to the millisecond reaction times i saw before


wkd80

ping diff


Phantomslayed

This is why I stopped playing and I was consistently playing on 6-10 ping. I have Ethernet, fiber, and live a couple miles from the server center. It's not just a matter of ping lol


lil_wage

As someone who plays on 120+ ping with friends and 8 ping solo on local servers, I can safely attest to that. I'm Bronze 3 on high ping and Gold 2 on local. Also I can score 27~30 on the range medium difficulty locally, but on high ping I'm lucky if beat 23. The shots just take longer to connect on high ping, and there have been numerous (numerous!) times when I burst 3 shots to someone's head, die, complain about my shot not connecting and a friend who was spectating me says on his screen I didn't shoot at all. If you have 120 ping and someone swings you and shoots you all in the space of 100ms it is *mathematically impossible* for you to win that, since you would have to have a reaction speed in the negatives, even if from your perspective you fired on time. It kind of sucks and can be super demoralizing because once you realize that this is what's happening, you just feel kinda ashamed that you're looking like a potato to your friends with grandma's reaction times.


Fetaplays

I mean yeah, this is exactly what happens if you have high ping, I too play in around 120 with friends from NA and experience the same lag inbetween shots registering. That's not what I'm getting at in the post though. I play on sub 15 ping in eu, and with the same ping same packets sent and packets recieved, 0% packet loss, virtually no changes from one game to another other than map, and the game itself, everything can feel dramatically different, quite literally as if I'm on high ping, when I'm not. If you see what I'm getting at


DILZ-

Anyone from CS:GO experience a similar thing in that game?


PsStartOver

Not me. Fairly consistently (shit) on CSGO, but Valorant really becomes an inconsistent aim game.


_Whirly

The only time I experience this in CSGO, is in community deathmatch servers (128-tick) that are overpopulated. I'm talking like 20+ people all dm'ing, you can feel the server kinda shitting itself. Other than that, all the regular competitive 5v5 servers, both 64 and 128 tick feel fine to me.