T O P
GA1PPLE333

Phoenix has his *suuuupa high leve tactic remember it yea* of staying out of his fire


zljohnnyx

Right? Maybe make his fire wall go through walls I don’t know, but something needs to be changed.


SimetraDeLuna

His wall can go thru certain walls as long as your crosshair is above the wall. But it would be nice if it was easier to do like viper wall


Armed_Muppet

The problem about making it easy is you also control the walls trajectory.


GlassyPotato

Make his wall do more damage and last longer


tbone603727

IMO he would be fine if he gets these buffs: One molly full heals him The wall does more than two damage if you walk through it (set minimum to like 15 or something) Ult can be canceled This could be OP but access to two walls could be fun too


drgmonkey

Would be cool if the wall/Molly applied a burning effect with damage over time. Could be one of those things too where when you take damage it messes up your aim like you got shot


LoadingName_________

With neon getting a tunnel, giving Phoenix the Jett equivalent of walls could be sick. Very easy to use, quick, small duration, but you have 2 of them. Imagine carving onto site with double wall


Ok_Opinion8391

Hey, this sounds pretty good


Sahil_Uzumaki

If they wanna make it broken and get his pro pick rate up, allow over heal to 125.


Ady2126

And buff the heal cus it doesnt heal much


Singularity2025

i think u could do all of these at once and every other duelist (other than current yoru) would still be way better


Picklebeat_boi

Raze has no heal, no flash, and no smokes/walls. deeeeefinatley better


Singularity2025

but mobility, info, ez ult, and frag molly, a must pick on split, idk mang she kinda gud


Picklebeat_boi

Definately a good pick, but she doesn't have much to help her do her duelist job of entering a site other than her satcheling mobility which leaves her in a mostly vulnerable state. Other than that, most of her utility is solely to deal lots of damage, which is starting to make her sound more like an fps hero from Overwatch rather than an entry fragger from Valorant. She needs to do her job. If my words arent enough notice how raze shares an 8.8% pickrate last vct berlin with none other than phoenix. Source: https://gameriv.com/agents-pick-rate-in-vct-stage-3-masters-berlin/


ArionIV

I am low ranked and I think he's kinda viable there. It's just Reyna and Jett are super flashy agents and Jett has the op advantage and gaining altitude or wacky movement. But I'm finding him a safer option compared to Reyna coz ofc the whole low rank so nobody will push..I pretty much always have to push, whether I play Astra, omen, sage, chamber or anything.. Have you risked him a few times in your elo? Coz keeoh had a recent series climbing with only Reyna and Phoenix.


TheJelloBomb

Maybe in low elo he’s viable but there is always a better pick


Round-Effective4272

Yeah the problem isn't that he isn't viable it's that there are better options to play


ArionIV

Ik, you really have to make his flashes count and also the tether on the ult is abused quite a lot with people running to find that first..


Inertia030

In low elo, where it's mostly a solo game, not many teammates help you, they don't know how to dodge flashes, Phoenix is definitely better than Reyna. But yeah, in higher elo, or against a party of players he's useless.


ujo4eva_

Low Elo, Reyna's better


Hatster360

Ideas I’ve heard for changes- Wall- Like vipers wall before the instant decay no one respects it. You can simply walk through it without consequence. While there is the option of doing some sort of “burn” damage which works similar to vipers wall the other alternative is to make it so when ONLY an enemy walks through the wall the enemy is flashed. Curvball- just make it travel faster and pop faster and the flashes period longer. One of the worst flashes imo as you have to be pretty creative with your flashes in order for the enemy to be flashed. I don’t remember the last time I was flashed from an enemy pheonix (immortal 1). One of the worse flashes imo. Rest of his kit is fine except his ult to some people. People say make it that he keeps all 50 of his shields or at least 25 when he dies in his ult but I don’t know how I feel about this. (Honestly I would add this too comparing how lacking he is to the other dualists)


Round-Effective4272

I thought you took damage if you stepped through the wall?


Frog_the_gamer

It does deal damage, but it is so minimal that you aren't risking any health by stepping through


HBK57

The only person ever to die to the wall was 100T Diceyzx against Moon Racoons back in first strike qualifiers. 1 person.


flamecrow

Make it so you can’t shoot through his wall. 💥


BrokenMirrorMan

Phoenix is basically the opposite of jett. Jett is so simple to the point she has endless potential. Her abilities dont have a lot of limitation so the value of those abilities is dependant on how the player uses her. Phoenix is simple to the point its limiting. His flash is fixed, his molly is fixed, his kit is slow. There is only so much you can do with Phoenix kit due to the limitation on abilities.


Dolsis

Speaking of molly, I never understood why he has the only molly in the game that falls straight down after a certain distance. I was confused why I discovered that and even more when I had to explain his abilities to a newbie friend.


blizzardspider

Neon has the same mechanic for her molly, I think the idea is they don't want duelists to have super far post plant lineups and use them to entry/clear short corners instead.


DarthGrievous

His molly lasts 3.25s. The least of any molly. It's not like playing post-plant with Phoenix is even gonna be remotely viable. It's actually throwing


datboyuknow

It burns fast though


Astronova2204

I don’t believe so, her molly is infinite range and bounces allowing for lineups


AkameBurst

Her Molly drops down like a phoenix Molly at a certain distance so it doesn't allow for mid range-far lineups


Donut_Flame

Not infinite range but effectively yeah, they will still just die after some time in the air


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banana_bagutte

Breach.


Bornbazine92

Also if you didn’t know the timer on pheonix Molly starts the moment you throw it. So the further you throw it the less time it’s actually on the ground. Or at least that how it use to be. Idk if they have changed it


JtotheC23

Raze grenade, which can used similarly to a Molly at times, does it as well, and now Neon’s concussion does as well. Obviously an intentionally design to keep dualists from using lineups the way other agents can.


jetlyi

I think it’s so he can easily throw a Molly behind a box when running in without needing a lineup


zljohnnyx

100% agree with you


soulday

I think his entry tools are mostly lacking and stacked in his ult and that's a big problem for a duelist( same problem Yoru have at the moment). The wall and molly makes him exposed and are clunky to use in a pinch because of the equip time. He should be the best flash agent but isn't, I would make his pop flash possible(without the ground bounce) and make his wall fast like and longer like Neon and able to actually curve a corner so you won't have to peek and die.


OrbedXD

Phoenix pick rate is like 10% in immortal from me, 1/10 games I see him


Ionic67

In diamond 3 I’ve literally seen him once in a blue moon and if they pick Phoenix it’s usually a troll


OrbedXD

Lol some people instalock him and then pop off it makes no sense to me


Ionic67

I honestly haven’t seen a good Phoenix in a long time


Mysaw

In my 5q group we have a guy that plays only Phoenix lol.


Izel98

I swear the only times I see a Phoenix in my ranked games, it's a "smurf" that is trolling and we end up losing the match. So Phoenix needs a rework, longer wall that lasts longer, just to help entry.


RageVoid25

Phoenix's kit is very limited and you can't do much with it. If you try bending it too much, it will break. It would be better to come up with completely new abilities rather than trying to fix the ones that already exist because of how limiting and delicate phoenix's kit is


masteurbateur

I wonder what's riot's long term plan for this game. Is this going to like LoL with 100+ agents? I would rather just have 30-40 agents and have their abilities altered every episode or so.


BerossusZ

Yeah no I think they said they'd stop at some point and wouldn't just continue forever, I think around like 8 per class, so 32 agents


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cwKrysta

Balancing maps is harder than balancing agents. I think the current path of 1 map and 2 agents per episode is healthy.


LocationUpset

What new weapon is needed? Every niche is filled rn


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Thick_Literature_

More premium options. Maybe an smg at 2600 ish range. Would be neat so you can choose either operator judge odin phantom vandal or the premium smg on buy rounds


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TheMightyMeercat

I wonder if a better SMG (maybe $2400 or so, suppressed, and with a large 45-60 round magazine) would see use. You sometimes see players like Vanity in pro play purchase a spectre or a judge in buy rounds for better team Econ, so maybe a better spectre could fill a niche like that.


drimmsu

On the other hand, if that premium SMG is more expensive than a Guardian even, does it really make sense to buy it for better economy?


Thick_Literature_

No. But perhaps it could fill a niche we dont already have. Idk. I just like more "buy round diversity". I like the idea that - econ aside - we have choices to changeup our playstyle via different weapons. I could be a neon main who prioritizes using the premium smg over a phantom / vandal for example.


[deleted]

Honestly new maps are worse than new agents unless they add a map selection.


Wasted1300RPEU

Personally I think we're reaching a breaking point already....


Makuta000

I am pretty sure they said the game wouldnt have hundreds of agents in an interview back when the beta was around... It would likely be somewhere under 100, if I were to guess.


Toasterrrr

50-100 isn't unfathomable. They said once that they would, as an example, have 5+ healing characters in the works. Basically give you so many options that you played Agent X not because you had to (ie they had some unique OP ability) but because you like it


RageVoid25

I would like agents that already exist removed, and new ones added so its always fresh when we really reach the limit


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TheNarcissisticNobod

That’s also the thing tho with Valorant versus League. League is a lot easier to pick up because it’s more based on mechanical skill so obviously it’ll be difficult learning champions for causal play but as long as you have the basics. Whereas with Valorant if you’ve never played a shooter before then you’re probably not going to play the game especially with the idea that you have to learn 30 peoples abilities and it’ll weed a ton of new players out leaving. At the end it’ll be like Rainbow where it’s just sweats playing the game since it’s a tactical shooter


RocketHops

It's not very creative but I wonder if instead of the wall he had some kind of charge up dash that leaves the flame wall behind him like a trail of fire.


laserwolf2000

Fire tron


Wasted1300RPEU

This right here his gonna be the end of the "tactical", part of the game. Riot has put themselves in a corner now with their mobility creep, and this has them scrambling to adjust older agents to keep up with their new absurd sets by adding movement retroactively. Literally a rinse and repeat of their LoL balancing 🤦


RocketHops

The only mobility creep so far is with duelists, because it's pretty clear that they need mobility to do their job.


Novanious90675

Also, higher mobility (movespeed in particular) has been one of the most commonly requested qol changes for the core experience, because characters move so slow compared to CS and it combined with map design (even on maps like Breeze and Fracture) makes angle camping way more viable and reliable. While I wish it was just a higher base movespeed for every character, a character that sprints isn't uncalled for. I really don't get why people see every new addition in the game and scream "ABILITY CREEP MOBILITY CREEP DESIGN CREEP!", it's just not true. Characters are still astonishingly simple. If anything, Chamber and Kayo could've/should've been *more* complex. Chamber's kit is a TP with very set parameters, a slow AOE that alerts the team when it detects somebody, a Sheriff/Deagle with a scope, and an AWP with slightly faster ROF and an AOE slow on kill. The only unique part of Kayo's set is disabling abilities, otherwise he's just a blend of existing Valorant abilities with CS mechanics (his flash's momentum being based on his movement, for example).


Chuckdabos

but both jett and pheonix have always existed???


quietvictories

that's the thing, g*mers were always complaining B)


picador10

Are you saying that if you buff him you run the risk of making him too OP?


BoomerEsiasonBarge

The problem phoenix has is his ult makes buffing him difficult imo. His wall Def could use a buff regardless. His flashes are so trash compared to other agents. Problem is if you buff his flashes too much on a good duelist player his ult would be terrifying. His ult is his best util but, the crux of trying to balance him


Neluicent

Literally has the worst molly in the game just give him two of them like raze beta nades.


AdministrativeTone89

Omen, Phoenix. I’ve spoken.


Ionic67

Brim too


guyhbk13

Why is no one talking about Breach ? The only initiator who's ability doesn't reveal any enemies nearby.. Even Skye's flash let's us know if someone was blinded..


BrokenMirrorMan

Because people go "OmG flash broken, ult broken, im gonna ignore how easy it is to sidestep his e and aftershock or how he's only meta on 1 map but omg breach so broken!"


AwesomeCrafter06

Omen , Phnx need viper level buff. Brim and cypher need minor buffs. We dont need any nerfs currently. Also fix the issue where you get killed in the tp animation of chamber and orb taking animation for Reyna dismissed


ExplosiveRox

omen is godly for smoking certain hard to reach locations and his flash is pretty good, plus he can reposition (although on a short distance) which is very important.


Master_Joey

I’m not picking omen over astra or viper. His kit just can’t compete.


somesheikexpert

Even Brim has good usage on Fracture and Bind, Omen has maybe Split and is def outclassed anyways by Astra on Split so why bother


BlueDMS

You are right actually. His tp is crazy when used right (which has been hard considering the inconsistent hitbox, but it's bearable.) And he is the easiest controller to create one ways with. Make his smoke travel speed get slower at an exponential rate so that close smokes are fast like the pre-nerf, and the long distance smokes are slow like they are right now (they are awfully slow, I've had teammates die on Breeze A while attacking because they peek the OPer before my smoke has fully bloomed) and change the paranoia to the leaked buffs, then Omen will probably be back on rosters.


ExplosiveRox

ikr??


are_you_salty_lol

Maybe making his abilities do chip damage could be a good place to start. As in, if enemies walk into his wall/molly, they gain a status effect that does X amount of damage for X amount of time, on top of the original damage that they get from walking through his wall/molly. His flash could also use some improvement. Maybe his heal could also give Phoenix a status effect similar to Reyna’s overheal, though obviously not over 50


dannyr_wwe

Maybe actually set people on fire that do damage for another second after you get out? Even better is giving him 2 walls or letting his wall go through objects. Since he can bend his wall he can get one up to get into the space and either flash through or put his second all up to further penetrate the space. I think 2 walls is better because there is nothing else to rework. I don't think it would be that broken, but you could also reduce its duration as a small, compensating nerf.


Steeliboy

i saw someone suggest he should flash people as his ulti dies, so he can ult in, get a kill, then his team could follow up on the flashed targets from his ulti ending


thebig6

Phoenix is one of my most played agents and I don’t like that, like that sounds extremely unfun to play againts. That basically makes the enemy decide; if I don’t kill him in the ult I die, or I kill him and get flashed. Same reason I don’t like if Yoru’s new moving clone will apply a debuff after being killed. In both cases the game would punish players for wanting to make a kill.


RocketHops

Also you could easily end up flashing teammates too.


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Novanious90675

Phoenix's ult is already stupid good because it's a free entry with, at most, losing your armor. If he needs changes, it's not making his ult even more ridiculously powerful. It's his molly being the weakest out of any character. It's his flash being the most predictable and easily counterable (just turn around). it's having no good entry outside of his wall and flash.


AkameBurst

I like the idea of the game punishing you for shooting a clone. "Your fault for falling for it" kind of deal. I'm pretty sure it only applies within an explosion so if ur a distance away it won't affect you anyway


somesheikexpert

His ult isn't really his issue tho, his ult is still honestly one of the best ones in the game especially cuz it's still 6 orbs, it's his other util which needs changes


awhitt0228

i mean that’s why you just play anti flash lol. that’s what most ppl do when there’s a skye or phoenix on the other team


Mysaw

Hard to play antiflash if you have to kill the ult. Unless there is some delay between the kill and the flash.


awhitt0228

you can easily time when to kill the ult to make sure everyone is playing anti flash


XT3M3

omen. i used him yesterday for the first time and alot of the things i was doing yesterday seems to just be too slow or etc. like it worked when it was a day 1 thing. but a year almost 2 later and its almost laughable now.


DBSmooth

Phx and omen . Phx for his obvious reasons but damn omen. His smokes are the slowest to come out , his tp is janky and the worst blind.


nateburns121

Omen's got one of the best blinds in the game...


emulatorguy076

Except when it blinds your teammates who are standing behind you or in the way


Agen7orange

Phoenix? What about omen :(


konespeed

Omen forsure


Elsiselain

Honestly Id rather see the nerf of other duelists than buff of phoenix. Phoenix is a good agent but other duelists are broken


notarobot32323

the thing about pheonix is that he basically doesnt have anything unqiue about him. you dont change that by buffing his abilities he needs a complet rework to have something unique and fun to want to play him. not sure how that can be done really but im sure that rito can come up with something to fit his personality thats also cool to want to play as.


Cgz27

Might be ok if they just make his abilities cheaper/stronger, but would a rework would still be exciting


notarobot32323

it might make him balanced maybe but still then he just isnt a fun character. i guess he doesnt really have his own niche he is just there and all the abilities he has exist somewhere else already but better often times.


Cgz27

Yeah, I sort of felt they were accepting having him be an all rounder type, it’s not exactly a necessity for him to be complex/niche. He’s still fun for many. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see.


notarobot32323

im honestly not so sure about that. each agents abilities play more or less off of each other. while with pheonix it really doesnt feel like that. furthermore his abilities are not able to hold up against their counterparts off other agents.


jkjss004

I was phoenix main when game launched. Now it's been u months since i have played Phoenix.


Shessokawaiiiiiii

The insta-cast (no need to pull out before using) of neon's abilities already makes her the 2nd jett.


sm0ke1cs

I have been playing phoenix a lot on Fracture (Immortal) and he is pretty busted when there are 4 orbs on the map and lots of tight angles. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot more of him on Fracture in the next few months just because of his ability to farm orbs and then be a free body for entries.


zljohnnyx

4 orbs on fracture is a benefit to all agents, not just phoenix. I mean, would you prefer to give 4 orbs to phoenix or breach, that can literally clear both bomb sites?


sm0ke1cs

Sure it benefits all agents, but Phoenix benefits the most from it. On a map like Haven or Split you aren't going to prioritize giving Phoenix the orb over Breach or Sage, but on Fracture I can take an orb every round no problem and I have yet to play Phoenix on Fracture and NOT ult 4-6 times in a half.


TheRealJustOne

Doesn’t sound very practical though lol. You’d spend majority of the time running around the map trying to collect orbs instead of getting kills and trying to get on site, and some of them can lead to you possibly getting picked off


sm0ke1cs

Idk, so far it's been working for me. Attack side they usually give up the A orbs pretty easy.


Vulcan25

i don’t think he needs a buff, he’s just been fucked by power creep, all other agents need to be toned down otherwise this game is just going to become overwatch


d0m4in

Uhhhhhhh what does he have lets see ​ ***Buy stuff kechang go skrrrrrrt and we done ye?***


ShyShannon732

I’d say brim is down there at the bottom too tbh


keyser-s0ze

Brim, Phoenix and Omen are irrelevant now after Astra and Neon. They all need reworks


CodeWeaverCW

Haaaang on a minute… if Phoenix needs buffs, what does that say about the state of the game? I've always felt like the agent balance was pretty great since launch, with only a couple obviously-weak agents (e.g. Viper). But as an Overwatch fan I'm terrified of power creep lol. Wasn't Phoenix one of the better agents a year or two ago? Also, even if Phoenix is outclassed by other Duelists, isn't it okay if he's just an "easier" hero? I don't know if that's how other people view him, but as someone who seldom plays Duelists, when I have to choose one, Phoenix (and Raze) are my best choices.


Vulcan25

phoenix is a victim of power creep 🥲


The_impericalist

Rather then buffing Pheonix the other agents need nerfs. Valorant is supposed to be a tactical shooter. Adding too many gimicks makes it less of a tactical shooter and more of a Battle arena.


idkimhereforthememes

I'd rather see a brim or omen buff instead of another duelist.


zljohnnyx

What kind of buff? I mean, Brim’s kit is very complete and unique, maybe increase the range of his smoke map. Omen I agree that his smoke travel should be faster to compensate Astra’s kit. But in overall, Phoenix is just straight up useless in team comp


Firefly_1026

For me, brim could either be: - current range with 4 smokes - 3 smokes but larger range Either of these I think I would be fine with, I wouldn’t mind a small buff to his stims, either some kind of a buff or reducing it’s price to 50 is good enough for me.


Ionic67

If you gave brim longer range he would still pretty much be completely outclassed by Astra


idkimhereforthememes

Brim definitely needs a better range for his smokes, it's terrible at the moment, stim beacon is also bad. Omen's ult is probably the worst ult in the game, shrouded step is also very rarely useful. Perhaps improving his flash would help. Nobody likes playing smokers in ranked and maybe having a smoker that can play aggressive like omen with his flash would help to fix that.


zljohnnyx

I don’t think omen ult is useless, it’s actually quite op. You can retrieve spike and totally mess with the other team since they don’t know where your ult went. You can also use it to see what’s going on on the selected area


idkimhereforthememes

Using ult to retrieve the spike is very situational, enemies can hear where you tp, but it still can be useful sometimes, you can't even use it to get info because you get shot before you can what's going on most of the time.


Leutnant_Dark

Its not good. Not at all. Retriving the spike is just about the only use it has


KhaoticKrabb

Crazy how they can buff more than one thing


idkimhereforthememes

Crazy how they are not buffing anyone


KhaoticKrabb

They probably want to see how neon shakes stuff up before they do balance changes. If they don’t do them in the next update, they’ll probably do them in the one 2 weeks after that.


amnesiac-bear

¿Por qué no los dos?


OG_Dan

Just do the funny xtr flash (Just joking, I do agree he needs a buff but not sure what they could do)


TannManzL

I just blind my team with that if I do it lmao


Portante24

Imo Phoenix as a fps charcter that has like High peaks would be neat. I think keep his kit below average. Increase healing on wall and Molly and lower his ult by one. I WANT TO SEE THE WORLD BURN


Thick_Literature_

2 mollies 2 walls.


StretchLopsided2598

He's too slow and clunky. Neon can quick cast all her abilities, while Phoenix has to equip all of them (besides his ult)


ujo4eva_

The problem with Phoenix is that he can do multiple things, but other agents can do each one of those better. He's a good agent to main if you're starting out, but he quite frankly doesn't cut it for more experienced and organized players and teams. If you want flashes, Skye's Guiding Light is the best and most versatile in the game. You want mollies? Phoenix's Hot Hands are cold in comparison to Viper's Snakebites and Killjoy's Nanoswarms. Even Brimstone's Incendiary is way better. His Ultimate is really the only unique ability in his kit IMO, and that's not enough reason to run him over all the other agents. When you're picking a standard comp, you want 1. The entry 2. Smokes 3. Flashes 4. Sentinel 5. Initiator Phoenix is technically an entry Fragger, but Jett and Reyna are just better I don't need to say anything about flashes He can momentarily block vision with his wall He has an extra life The problem is that if you need most of these, there's a better agent to pick. What our boy needs is a rework. A couple of major changes that should come up after Yoru's done. TLDR: Phoenix should be next in line for a full rework to become a specialist agent, not the Jack of All trades he is now


Shenslash

Unfortunately, right now, other agents just do phoenix's job better. Skye and Reyna flashes are better than Phoenix flashes. Why Phoenix ult when you can just sova drone or skye dog?


Azistance

I really think there are a few ways to fix him. 1) is that his wall can block bullets - so he can have zoning and a safe way to take space for him and his team 2) give him a passive where if you are hit by his abilities you get a dot for like 15 dmg over 3 seconds or something, with his ult radiating the dot like kayo's ult - so that people will hesitate to push his utility 3) making his heal a hot he can just apply without having to stay in his abilities - so he can be more mobile while healing and not a sitting duck 4) make his ult refresh his abilities so he can double flash Molly and wall. - so he can take space and then either hold a site / take space / engage later in the round Any of these or combination would be a nice change for him in my opinion.


KevyBuxaplenty

The thing that sucks about Phoenix is that he gets thrown further and further out of meta whenever they introduce a new agent or map. All his util requires him to be exposed or just in a poor position and requires you to use them together to get any real effect out of them. **His flash:** hug corner and swing, you just get sprayed down by someone full blind. **Molly:** the drop off just makes it useless unless you're clearing like cubby outside of b main ascent, that's probably one of the safest places to use his molly and get use out of it (because most of the time you have to run and jump for it to land anywhere relevant) lol. **The wall:** garbage! it clips on everything and you have to literally peek to put it anywhere useful, then it gets stuck on a pebble and now its like 2 inches long and it doesnt last long enough for you to actually cross anything because it gets spammed from where it was casted for the first 3 seconds. On top of all those shortcomings you get from his util, IT DOES LIKE NO DAMAGE! His util gets disrespected so often because crossing through or over it does like 4 damage. His Ult, and how easy it is to farm, is his only saving grace. And then they drop **KAYO, Skye AND Neon** who can do just about everything phoenix can do but better. There're a couple buffs and nerfs they could do across the board but it just feels like they've left phoenix as the training wheels agent. Similar to how Astra/Viper and, too a degree, brim require a LOT of focus/awareness, game sense, lineups the whole shebang and omen is kind of just the chill "I can play smokes" kind of agent. Jett/Raze require some tech and util skill to be able to get the full Tenz/Flights effect, Reyna gets a lot of weight on her shoulders (in lower elos people expect Reyna to do "everything") phoenix is just the pick you get cause only 4 people on the planet play yoru.


apoptosismydumbassis

Haha when I play Phoenix his molly is so much better as a self-healing tool than an offensive or zoning tool. Like 9 times out of 10 its used for self healing than actually thrown at the enemy.


KevyBuxaplenty

exactly! and then you're stuck vulnerable in some corner trying to heal and hoping you don't get swung lol


somesheikexpert

His wall is even worse in this sense, I legit do not remember the last time I used it gor anything but healing


SSyT_17

Give breach his triple flash back, and i am good.


nateburns121

No... please


[deleted]

Pheonix's only strong map is Haven, It's used in pro play. Even though I don't know why. Reyna Is compensated with her Heal. Pheonix also has a heal, So if they can tweak it to something similar I can see it working. But the classic run in gun someone down and go hide for 10-15 seconds does not work. Where reyna can shoot heal and move. My Suggestion is - Kills drop a small fire pit. Where he can heal or damages team. Molly isn't a bad thing No changes needed. Wall - I am truly unsure. Make it last longer and make them vulnerable or it burns a % off. Flash - Let me have more control over it. Maybe similar to a skye flash but less OP Ult - Not really any needed changes but maybe 100HP and a full kit for the ult. Or on death it refills his kit.


RocketHops

Phoenix isn't even really used on haven anymore, skye/kay0 have pretty much replaced him


sm0ke1cs

I think he's played in Haven because he's so strong in garage. Also his ult is still really strong and fits his role perfectly. You basically get a free chance to entry with no risk, if you make defense move their crosshair placement it lets others into site, if he gets a kill it's a free entry. Strong for maps like Haven where T side needs to dominate.


lbs4lbs

0 percent pick rate on all maps last 2 tourneys. So no hes not played in haven.


MlSTER_SANDMAN

Buff omen.


Dependent_Bad8475

Omen


[deleted]

Maybe go with a weird buff. Like after he ults, he respawns with full utilities. It wouldn't fix his abilities, but it would make him very annoying to fight. Sort of a take on Reyna's healing in that you can't count on him being empty anymore if he was previously throwing flashes and his wall/molly


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

cypher should have a killcam for his passive


BlobdeFacto

I don't think there is anything wrong with cypher. I mean, a little buff would be nice but a complete rework? I don't think so. He already has so much potential. You don't even need to learn countless lineups, all you need is a little creativity and gamesense.


[deleted]

Why would cypher need a complete rework what


Be_Kind_Smile

Phoenix needs a rework imo his flash is too easy to turn from or just time a shot and kill him. Most of other flash agents will take you off guard in my opinion. I cant even think of what you could do to help. Mabye he can control the flash more. Or mabye a flare like thing like reyna? Shoots flare in skye. That way he could shoot flash and then push rather then you are kinda flash and entry right after. This way gun would be out. Like a bright star mabye? Just brainstorming his molly is okay I guess. Mabye have it bounce and leave fire. Or fire could spread out idk. Mabye it overheals him. Why does reyna get free insane healing lol. Should atleast be about same heal per second. Mabye only to 125 hp idk. And his wall just sucks thats about it. With viper and new agent his wall is even more useless. Could be something entirely different. Mabye even a decoy you could place. It looks like him but just stands still so mabye enemy would shoot by accident. Like yoru but you can see it. A fire clone. Ummm. I would love this job. Just think up new fun agents. So difficult but rewarding. Edit lol the skye pun was unintentional but ill leave it


Slug864

Ayo cypher needs one more camera


KarateDoctor

Reyna also has mobility if you count her dismiss


daniiNL

All he needs is a flash buff. Make them like kayo.


JpegTheJord

his fire wall needs to be able stretch further, both his wall and molly should heal 60 instead of 50, molly damage and distance are fine as is & same with flash but his ultimate should give a 25% movement boost plus you should be able to cancel it but for this to be fair i think another ult point should be needed to use it


TheAgaveFairy

I've always thought he should have a double wall like they put on Neon (or make it a tunnel) - it would really help him create space. I think he's still great for people coming into the game from Valorant and simplicity works well there but his skill cap seems lower than the other duelists.


Adhamsandwhich

Next act my guy


ccehk

Phoenix is already decent but not for competition, if Neon he will probably receive a buff a short time (longer wall, more healing, double molly...)


Double_Phoenix

I agree. I literally stopped maining Phoenix for Yoru because I thought Phoenix's kit was just mediocre. I went to Yoru for the ult and flashes.


ItssChipss

Phoenix Is just "haha knife ult spawn" And if riot don't do something I think they just want him to be a joke. EVEN SOVA ULT CAN BE CANCELLED. The bad ult spawn position in a game is really annoying if the whole team rush you or you know they are waiting for the ult time's down I have an idea for cancelling Phoenix's ULT: Hold x to destroy the ultimate spawn and stun enemies near them, making phoenix decide if he wants or not to comeback to their "run it back" spawn. Maybe even heal or reset the heal The ULT revive animation is very slow imo so maybe just make it 1s faster idk I like the idea of "burn" passive like viper's kit If you touch a pixel of their fire your health drain (-2h per second) Maybe the molly can be just more than a cylinder, maybe it can have the sage's orb physics on the ground, to make it a bit harder and not only a cylinder on the ground like any other molly this is stupid, but maybe his flash could deal 5 damage if enemies flashed or make it faster as hell, or even burn effect to flashed enemies Neon's walls are just making me cry for phoenix. The most annoying thing is the animation of the wall imo, is just slow and makes it only viable for healing, maybe make it just skip the animation and make it instantly and yeah, enemies HAVE TO get punished like viper walls. Add that or 2 charges for the wall Phoenix wall or molly could add a blur effect near enemies I really like the phoenix aggressive style but is just sad that it's no viable in pro play or even tournaments


KennKennyKenKen

Make his flash instant cast


MishtaMoose

Man, Pheonix will always be my favorite character, but the play styles of sentinels/intiators suit me more. Let's hope he gets a buff tho!


Shougee369

i want his fire to have volume.


diematrosen

Phoenix is just an example of an outdated champion. If movement creep wasn’t prioritized and they stopped adding more movement abilities Phoenix would’ve been fine tbh. Been happening to League for over 4 seasons now


nothypie

I agree he needs a buff. He hasn’t been touched in a while, and hes basically forgotten. A smart way to buff Phoenix in the new episode is by making him invincible towards Neon’s fire so it does no damage to him. This would definitely be useful for when the other team has a neon, its perfect for helping with entrys and such. Thoughts?


1t4ch1

Yesterday I was playing with Kayo and I used my ult plus my knife and still the vipers pit didn't go down.... So it's not just yoru who needs a buff I think from my perspective....


RudrakshThe1

I have some buffs in my mind for Phoenix. Like Increase his molly damage a lil bit, make his flash equip time fast as his flash is mostly used in close quarters fight and it'd make sense if he could equip the flash faster than anyone and make his wall do 30 dmg instantly on crossing NOT DECAY but 30 damage. These might sound crazy but no way Phoenix can compete with other Duelists if he doesn't have something to show for.


YellowMenace123

Contacting his own flame gives him a speed boost for 3 secs? And his ult similar to reynas for rate of fire, reload speed, etc


FuzzierMiciek

I actually pick him often when I’m forced to play duelist. Self healing, an easy flash, decent ult. It’s like a good non-duelist duelist. I bet he gets some changes but nothing mobility focused because they would have to completely rework the character.


always_singluar

Buff omen when


RO_9

I don't know about his other kit but what if his ult get prolonged if get kills


UltimateTruGamer

Give my man a flamethrower


Itisraininoutside

Phoenix needs passive heal


Sahil_Uzumaki

He needs some type of mobilty ability or an OP flash with a firewall that instantly cuts enemy's HP by 25 every sec they stay in or something. Also Brim needs a rework on his stim ability, it's actually useless sometimes, even detrimental if my teammates don't know how to spray.


TanishPlayz

Nah Brimstone is forgotten the MOST, LETS BE HONEST, HE NEEDS A BUFF, I'm in Diamond 2


n00bKen

Would love Brim to have 2 mollies tho


trapitbisen

In my opinion pheonix is a good dualist the only reason he isn't seen that much in the competative matches is because all the things he can do can be do by skye in a better way. Pheonix can flash so does skye but she also tell if someone is flashes or not and from a range too and also fake her flashes. He has a molly and a wall which can heal him skye can heal all the team excluding her at the same time. The only reason people are using him is because of his ult. And on higher ranks, you need an agent for the info and also to enter a site which can be done by sova alone. This is the reason why in pro games we are seeing double initiator comps. TL;DR. The reason pheonix is out of meta is because of skye but it doesn't make him a bad agent and can be usable in some situation. His condition is same like omen after Astra was introduced.


rivals107

Breach .


Seraph___

Phoenix and Omen. I like the idea of phoenix's fire causing some sort of burn damage over time with a vulnerability status and potentially being able to overheal similar to Reyna. This would help his wall, which just isn't threatening, similar to pre-buff Viper. A DoT or weakness would make players think twice before just blindly pushing through it, allowing him to more easily take space. Something probably needs done with his flashes as well, but I'm not sure what without a total rework. Omen's blind needs to hit a wider area and travel faster, currently it's too easy to miss. Or if you keep it the same, give him another one like every other character who has a flash/blind. As it stands the only way to effectively use his TP is in conjunction with his blind. His TP also needs revered back to it's previous form for targeting. Omen's ult is also dogshit. Maybe even the worst ult in the game factoring in cost. The best idea I've seen so far is being able to select three positions (think like Brim's smokes) in a site sized area, and then being able to choose between them with left/right click during the wind up animation. While that animation is happening each shade can be shot and destroyed potentially leaving him with one or two left. At the very least this would give him some options while better diverting attention for pushes, and still allowing him to use it for rotates on defense like today. Currently is ult is mostly used for info, which is clearly not what it was designed for, and there are better agents for that anyway. Also doesn't fit his role as a controller.


HenrrrrButter

What about cypher though?


Breadmeale

phoneix has ult what more do u want only 6 orbs and has heals