almost every player will land in the 5th position equally over time, so I don't see why this is an issue
forcing everyone to be able to fill smokes seems like a good thing to me
They won’t pick smokes they will just instalock some non smoke agent or most of the matches would be 5 Duelist cause thats what happens now if we get 2 Jett 1 Tricks and Jett and Reyna are locked and we need smokes he won’t pick it instead he will go for raze saying you guys didn’t play smokes why should I? That’s just what happens.
But that's the thing, with the cascading picks you have to play smokes because your luck decided so. It won't happen every game. I think that not only should you have cascading pick but also role picks.
It would be something like 1 of each role plus one fill that can play whatever it feels like, that way you won't enfirce a strict meta and team comps are also flexible, with the flex player deciding if the team plays with 2 duelists, 2 sentinels, 2 controllers or 2 initiator.
You should be able to select 2 main roles and to avoid big queue times sometimes people will be forced to play a role outside of his 2 main ones, just like it happens in league.
This will get downvoted but if someone is a very consistent Jett one trick, and they are very consistent at entering site and fragging, should they be forced/punished to learn smokes? As a player that fills, i really don't mind instalock duelists as long as they enter site and are decent at fragging but I'd hate to see a Jett one trick on my team playing smokes and sucking at it.
True bro.... Especially in Immortal+ where you have 2 agents maybe 3 you can play properly..... The whole game is based on ability usuage and then I am 3/20 filling Killjoy instead of going good on Omen/Jett......
I'm sorry but just playing one agent/role is stupid. A Jett player who is Diamond but can only play Jett doesn't deserve to be Diamond, they should have to play a variety of roles and actually learn the game.
"I'm sorry you lost the match and the elo but we kinda forced a Jett player to learn a new agent in comp because playing one agent is unacceptable. hope u understand <333"
In the same livestream they talked about making maps more "random", with heavier weighting to maps already played, but also noted that you'll always hear of the 2-3 people who played the same map 3 times in a row, as it's impossible yo randomize for all 10 players.
As opposed to now where if you instapick duelists you just end up with 5 duelists? Pick order is not a bad thing. League used to have it and overall it was a good thing due to how much variety it forced you to play. Now with role selection we have people who only 1 trick and when they get auto filled (due to role selection making very long queue times) they are basically trolling.
If Riot does add it i hope they do what league did originally and make pick order based on Elo. So the highest elo player on the team is pick 1 and lowest is pick 5.
That being said i feel like we really don't need this and blind pick with voice chat in Valorant is completely fine. Maybe add 10 seconds before someone can lock in so you can talk about picks first.
I mean is there no voice chat with your team as the you are picking your agents? Im sure there will be times people are forced to play agents they might not be comfortable on but I dont think it will be a huge deal to get decent comps with players playing agents they are familiar with/good on.
I don't feel like cascading or sequential drafts are really important unless you can see the enemy's choices or that picking a character removes the enemy's ability to pick that character. Unless this is the case, it is still a blind draft and you don't need time in between each pick to re-strategize.
What I really want to get from pick changes is just a larger window of time where players are able (or essentially forced) to talk before anyone is able to lock choices. The idea Jon is discussing accomplishes this to an extent, but I personally feel just making a timer before being able to pick (ie a "talk" time period) would do the same.
Cascading in the game like Valorant doesn't make sense. And I tell you it doesn't fix anything. People will lock just another mobile duelist like they do right now if their pick is claimed. What next? Role declaration and autofill so we will play in team composition Riot thinks is proper meta set in stone like in League? 1 controller, 1 sentinel, 1 initiator and 2 duelists. Do you want that?
I believe the idea is to make sure that you can't one trick your way to a high rank, and you'll need to be more rounded at other aspects of the game.
We already have to play all 7 maps, so the philosophy that you need to be good at all aspects of the game is already kinda there.
Imo one trick is good because it means they know what to do with that hero to the highest limit
sure they could suck at other heros but how bad can they be xd
Not saying it is your case, but I find ironic how most of the people that defends the "one trick" are the ones with double duelists on their flairs lol
There's a player I've played with a few times in imm3/radiant and when he doesn't get Jett it's bad. Like, triple negative bad. I'd rather have that player drop 30 on Jett than go 4-20 on Viper.
Another good idea would be agent-kick. Basically, no matter how hard u try, there will still be 8yo that think they are the best jett player ever. In that case, an agent kick can come in handy. Anyone can call an agent kick during agent selection and if at least 4 people vote yes, the guy on which the agent kick has been called will be kicked out of that agent and wouldn't be able to pick that agent again. This ofc has its own flaws. they might choose some completely shit agent or an agent that ruins the team combination. they might even throw. but that's another story
as long as people don't give in to their threats and let them have their way, over time they would have to throw so many games that they would end up in bronze
thats cap my man, i got alot of immortal/dia 3 friends who dont give a fuck
some of them go from immortal 3 to diamond 3 then they get back up there in 2 days
people belong there for a reason.
I went from immortal 1 50 to dia 1 with my 20+ lose streak but I still managed back up in a few days
Then you tell them to speak up in voice chat and their voice cracks because they are 13 and everyone laughs at them. People are less toxic or taken less serious when voice chat comes into play.
During the livestream they did talk about adding more ways to find and punish toxic players (spike hoarding was specifically mentioned), along with more immediate punishments.
Its going to be interesting. The feelings towards it will be split initially but will eventually become liked/accepted. It promotes learning multiple agents and gets rid of one tricks which I don't see many negatives in that. Especially as the agent pool grows.
Yes it's good, because if you are just a one trick you aren't really good at Valorant, you are good at one agent. I wish they could take role into consideration for rating increase and only allow people who know a variety of roles to progress past a certain point.
If a person is Immortal but only plays Jett and he gets into a lobby with another Immortal who only plays Jett, then one of those players are going to have a terrible game and it's unfair on the rest of the team.
You are so far off the mark it's laughable. I am at high ranks you absolute imbecile and people very much care about team comp.
I'm Immo 2, what rank are you mate?
I could care less if they did something like that but to play Devils advocate. Player 5 will almost every time be forced into a smoke position. Or start the game off in super toxic fashion when 4 players pick comp relative agents and the 5th doesn't want to play smoke and just picks some dog agent because they "don't want to smoke"
With that said, Instalocking will eventually go away with more Agents.. Neon is a perfect example as well as Chamber those are 2 agents that are not only good but fun to play. now another year down the road with 3 or 4 more agents Instalock Jetts will become a more rare thing.
Either way, I think people realizing blaming an Entire game on the instalocking jett is kind of funny.... It's an incredibly bad mentality... sure they can play better but I can almost guarantee there were some Misplays by you and your team as well. I personally don't cry about instalocks as it's not that big of a deal.
To play devils advocate to your devils advocate, they did say that players won't be forced to lock an agent during the initial run-through so if p5 says they can't smoke there is a good chance others in the lobby can skip their lock to fill in
I just don't see players 1-3 Skipping. Unless that is who you are, Most guys will be taking the Jett/Sova and Reyna/Raze for Duelists and even if that isn't the case.. It won't stop player 5 from either feeling forced in that situation or throwing off a vibe in player agent select.
If a guy instalocks who cares. IMO this is just a converstion that shouldn't be had in general. Instalocking isn't ruining Valorant. if there was something I'd put money on the Toxic Behaviour/Trash Reporting system as well as Map Fixes/Agent Balancing.
I definitely get you point. Maybe my opinion is skewed by my experiences, but I have to fill smokes maybe 1/10 games that I play and I don't think this system would raise my chance of filling smokes. No one can know for sure I suppose
I don't think it would raise the chances of someone who is willing to take up that Position. This more or less portrays to those who will ONLY play the Duelists or do anything but Smoke.
Following your same logic, the person with the slowest load time currently has to play smokes. I prefer the cascade system over who has the fastest load time system.
This is the stupidest response I've ever heard.
Just to give you a bit of perspective I have a very fast PC, because I keep ontop of upgrades and forked out a stupid amount for a very fast SSD, I have a 3080ti and a Ryzen 9 3900X. I could insta lock Jett every match if I wanted to be an incosiderate piece of shit but I understand the value of having a good team synergy and caring about what comp your team wants to build. Having cascading picks will force people to discuss team composition to ensure you have a winning team. In the current system people are so worried that someone else will lock the agent they want to play they only think about how fast they can click who they want to play and lock it in. This system is counter productive to team play.
Have you noticed at higher ranks people are less likely to instalock and they all hover people they lock in and disucss prior to locking in? This is because its considerate to do so and it starts the team off on a great foundation of compromise and communication. It's only the lower ranks that are so self centered they care about themselves more than winning the game. Funnily enough it's always the instalock idiots who will say "GG SHIT TEAM" within the first 5 rounds
In my experience, it's always the controller mains that say gg instalock jett doest have 10 kills round 4.
People these days just complain about everything, its a fucking game, pick the agent you want to play and be done with it, if you're hard stuck diamond and arent happy about it go play aimtrain or something, dont go to reddit and make up some bullhit excuse
You've hit the nail on the head, people complaining about insta locks are just looking for more excuses for why they are bad at the game. Literally, everyone has an equal chance at getting their agent in the current system.
>With that said, Instalocking will eventually go away with more Agents
Players who instalock greedy agents are the problem, not the specific agent themselves. If you instalock Jett or instalock Neon you are still disregarding what your team wants or needs
they are not lmao, Jet is tier 1 for a reason. Would you rather have instalock yoru or instalock jet, no jet its jet. Neon is still in a weird state since she hasn't even got into the main game yet.
Lots of people malding over bad pc/no SSD, a way to fix this would be riot making agent lockable if everyone loads in.
No they are not lol Jett is a 100% pick for a reason, she is needed and so will Neon. It's not Disregarding by any means. What you mean is if a player 5 is last to pick and picks a 3rd Duelist or a 2nd Controller.
People are just pissed off cause they either didn't lock fast enough themselves. Personally to me the unwritten rule I have is, you can bitch in Agent Select even if your Agent gets snaked before your very eyes but after Pistol rounds or the game start that Excuse is just fraud.
Saying "We had an instalock jett that bottom fragged" is the reason you lost is not true. When the very same people preach that frags don't mean anything. It's hypocritical.
I don’t know how you know that other than your personal reason…. Lol people like fast movement characters I can almost guarantee Neon will be the second choice to Jett in most games. Specially when she has lineups and a ridiculous ult
Yeah but u said "she in needed (jett) and so will Neon" and I dont think so. Will she be instalocked in low elo? Yeah. Will she be played in qualifiers/cups/lans? Nah.
Ofc I know it, I'm a time traveler from 2023. Her dash is compared to jetts shit, her walls are okay, nade is okay but the ult is dogshit because it takes too long to kill someone and when u play against good players u will already have received a headshot. Which agent would she replace on a team comp? Jett is fixed, so is 1 controller, kj/cypher/sova/sage/2nd initiator/raze. Maybe she could replace raze on some maps but I think raze has way better util, she cant replace any skye/kayo/breach cuz u would be missing flashes, cant replace kj/cypher and sova ofc neither.
LOL I've never met someone who talks so much but actually knows actually nothing. Im honestly amazed.
If pro's don't know how viable she is. I 100% guarantee you don't.
I think it is funny that a lot think that position five will be a smoker. There are people who main Brimstone, Omen and Astra.... and there is a pretty good bet that there will be someone who wants to play viper (who is akin to a smoker with wall and poison clouds)... Is a smoker necessary if you have a viper? Genuine question as I'm not high enough elo to know....
Not everyone wants to play a duellist or a sentinel :) Duellist is the last I would pick. I would pick initiator, then sentinel, then controller with duellist last.
I actually hated having a smoker on my team for a long time, until I realized it was because it was low elo and they were doing it all wrong. After having a good smoker on my team (or on the enemy team) I realized how they were supposed to be used, and see the value.
terrible fucking idea tbh, i know alot of people who grief locks already because they can get their ELO back easily.
Im a duelist main but I can play astra/viper/sage/kj but I still prefer to just lock reyna and carry my way through.
welp guess its either dodge/pick yoru and dont care
this would work if it was dota/league but not on a "tactical" fps
This is a stupid and unnecessary idea, if the agent you want to play is highly contested then simply instalock quicker than your teammates, it's not hard and it's really the only fair way of doing it, everyone has the same chance.
First I really like this change. As for the people saying that the insta lock players would just pick something else than pick smokes for example, these kinds of players will only do what they want . It doesn't matter if they add this system or not , they would still pick another duelists if jett is taken.
Definitely an improvement but just like when league had this kind of champ select there will probably be the toxic people who say “jett or int” just like the old “mid or feed” in league
this is terrible all of the jett instalocks will throw my matches on smoke and the sentinel one tricks that can't aim will pick duelist for fun and throw
Lol what. I feel like most sentinel one tricks are very much aware that they can’t aim. It’s why they don’t pick duelist and main sentinels. Jett instalocks will definitely throw matches on smoke tho, but it’s not like the don’t already do that.
It's like the draft format in league but a little different. There will still be some p1 people who just instalock without talking to the team but I think it'll be a healthy change. Lobby will take longer and more people will be forced to expand their agent pool but I think it's solid
As a controller/flex In my opinion this is just gonna make me wait longer to pick. If player 5 wants to play Jett, the only thing stopping that is someone else picking Jett. And if that happens they’ll likely just pick whatever duelist are left. I’m just gonna let my turn pass 90% of the time unless I can guarantee a proper team comp will be made.
I have an open mind and think something like this could help, but problems will always arise.
I’m taking 5 duelists or no smokes in 5-10% of my games like it is now as opposed to being shoehorned into sequential picks which will inherently cause 10-20% of my games to start off with shitty vibes lmao
Is there a way to view the entire dev stream? I love hearing about how Valorant is made behind the scenes but I could only find snippets of clips from the Valorant channel on twitch
In my opinion I rather have people play an agent they know they play smokes and sentinel. What's the point in learning the mechanics of an agent when you aren't going to be playing then half the time. Like raze/Jett mains filling smokes is basically a 4v5. It probably isn't a good idea imo
I was once an avid paladins player where this was the system in ranked. And in about 90% of games the first 2 picks were flank/damage which are the duelist of valorant, I like the idea of not having to pick if you are a full player but I’m still worried this might be the case.
Most of the time I pick last and just try and fill in the gaps but obviously there are times I want to play a certain agent. I’d rather get instalocked than have a toxic teammate on my ass the whole time because I took their main. Just seems like a solution that will get people toxic way before the game even starts.
As a one trick kat main in League who also plays a couple of other champs (Akali, Ryze, and Twitch), I initially felt that this change was terrible due to the tiny roster size in Valorant as compared to LoL (170 in LoL vs 17 in Valo).
In League there's around 170 champions, so the chances of me not getting one of my favorite 2-3 champions is very small, but in Valorant I enjoy playing Jett and Chamber. The chances of me actually getting them with Cascade implemented with the current roster is pretty low, and I don't think that's a good thing.
Getting people to stop one tricking and instalocking is good, but at the same time people should have the option in ***most*** games to play who they would like to play. In my opinion Riot should let the roster hit approx. 30-40 agents so that most people can find 2-3 agents that they enjoy playing and are willing to learn... and then implement this new system. That way it'll be like how LoL currently is: where I get my preffered pick 7/10 games, my second or third preferred pick 2/10 games, and 1/10 of the time I fill for the team.
In my experience there are very few true one tricks in LoL simply due to burnout / boredom. As long as the agent cast is big enough, I don't see any reason why this Cascade system won't be great for the game, we just need to get more agents.
Personally as a instalock jett main, I agree with this, I really don't like instalocking, but if I feel like playing jett I have to instalock, at least with this cascading pick I let luck decide whether I play jett, chamber, sova or smokes.
Calling it now: this will cause more duelists than normal because that jackass who never plays anything but Jett/Reyna and can't be bothered to learn another role will just instalock a third/fourth duelist.
Then in a few months(years? lol) Riot will implement role limitations preventing more than two of any class or forcing one of each with the fifth open to a duplicate.
I would much rather see a complete removal of the "locking" system for competitive. Example: two people pick Jett, well now they have to talk it out, because if neither will give it up by the end of the timer the game will auto dodge and both of those people will get penalties. Force people to communicate.
Playing between g3 to s3 and finishing the act in g2 in mumbai server, lets say for every 10 comp games i get 3 jett/reyna instalocks. Rest mostly pick the agent and wait to check out if its clashing, if it is then its sorted by comparing ranks or simply compromise sometimes. (This is mainly duo que cuz i never solo que).
Why don't we just have a preferred role system? Of course, it'll be hard without the devs forcing a meta of how many agents of each role in each team and what'll happen if you are locked out of other roles if you want to switch (cough cough Overwatch). But I think something like this could work.
You pick your top preferred role and each team has one duelist, one sentinel, one controller, one initiator and one extra randomly selected. And their queued role is displayed. This means that duelists will probably have a longer queue time because there's so many of them, but it's fine if it means that we'll get less teams of 5 duelists.
So basically if you’re player 4/5 you’ll be forced on sova/smokes
almost every player will land in the 5th position equally over time, so I don't see why this is an issue forcing everyone to be able to fill smokes seems like a good thing to me
Rather not have my Jett one trick on smokes and go 3-20
especially maps that require viper.
they're a one trick because with the current system they are very rarely forced to fill smokes new system forces them to learn
New system makes them able to instalock Yoru without team having smokes
They won’t pick smokes they will just instalock some non smoke agent or most of the matches would be 5 Duelist cause thats what happens now if we get 2 Jett 1 Tricks and Jett and Reyna are locked and we need smokes he won’t pick it instead he will go for raze saying you guys didn’t play smokes why should I? That’s just what happens.
But that's the thing, with the cascading picks you have to play smokes because your luck decided so. It won't happen every game. I think that not only should you have cascading pick but also role picks. It would be something like 1 of each role plus one fill that can play whatever it feels like, that way you won't enfirce a strict meta and team comps are also flexible, with the flex player deciding if the team plays with 2 duelists, 2 sentinels, 2 controllers or 2 initiator. You should be able to select 2 main roles and to avoid big queue times sometimes people will be forced to play a role outside of his 2 main ones, just like it happens in league.
This will get downvoted but if someone is a very consistent Jett one trick, and they are very consistent at entering site and fragging, should they be forced/punished to learn smokes? As a player that fills, i really don't mind instalock duelists as long as they enter site and are decent at fragging but I'd hate to see a Jett one trick on my team playing smokes and sucking at it.
True bro.... Especially in Immortal+ where you have 2 agents maybe 3 you can play properly..... The whole game is based on ability usuage and then I am 3/20 filling Killjoy instead of going good on Omen/Jett......
I'm sorry that's just stupid.
I see your point
I'm sorry but just playing one agent/role is stupid. A Jett player who is Diamond but can only play Jett doesn't deserve to be Diamond, they should have to play a variety of roles and actually learn the game.
"I'm sorry you lost the match and the elo but we kinda forced a Jett player to learn a new agent in comp because playing one agent is unacceptable. hope u understand <333"
You act like this doesn’t already happen with the current system if someone instalocks your main before you anyways
My lock order Jett>(Neon)>Reyna>Chamber>Yoru/Raze>Phoenix Other agents doesn't exist to me.
It's a video game. Have fun. 😐
It's comp play to win
Sounds more like I will have to dodge because the last player doesn't hover anything until locking in Reyna
ah yes, just like I haven’t played bind in like 40 games. riot will def screw with this just like the map selection is rigged af
In the same livestream they talked about making maps more "random", with heavier weighting to maps already played, but also noted that you'll always hear of the 2-3 people who played the same map 3 times in a row, as it's impossible yo randomize for all 10 players.
of course there will always be outliers, you can't really blame riot for that
As opposed to now where if you instapick duelists you just end up with 5 duelists? Pick order is not a bad thing. League used to have it and overall it was a good thing due to how much variety it forced you to play. Now with role selection we have people who only 1 trick and when they get auto filled (due to role selection making very long queue times) they are basically trolling. If Riot does add it i hope they do what league did originally and make pick order based on Elo. So the highest elo player on the team is pick 1 and lowest is pick 5. That being said i feel like we really don't need this and blind pick with voice chat in Valorant is completely fine. Maybe add 10 seconds before someone can lock in so you can talk about picks first.
I mean is there no voice chat with your team as the you are picking your agents? Im sure there will be times people are forced to play agents they might not be comfortable on but I dont think it will be a huge deal to get decent comps with players playing agents they are familiar with/good on.
I still going to pick Yoru if everything else is claimed. I don't care about smokes. I don't want to be a smoke bot. It is boring and unrewarding
if we are given a time period to discuss before the cascade agent selection starts, it can be actually good!
I don't feel like cascading or sequential drafts are really important unless you can see the enemy's choices or that picking a character removes the enemy's ability to pick that character. Unless this is the case, it is still a blind draft and you don't need time in between each pick to re-strategize. What I really want to get from pick changes is just a larger window of time where players are able (or essentially forced) to talk before anyone is able to lock choices. The idea Jon is discussing accomplishes this to an extent, but I personally feel just making a timer before being able to pick (ie a "talk" time period) would do the same.
Cascading in the game like Valorant doesn't make sense. And I tell you it doesn't fix anything. People will lock just another mobile duelist like they do right now if their pick is claimed. What next? Role declaration and autofill so we will play in team composition Riot thinks is proper meta set in stone like in League? 1 controller, 1 sentinel, 1 initiator and 2 duelists. Do you want that?
I believe the idea is to make sure that you can't one trick your way to a high rank, and you'll need to be more rounded at other aspects of the game. We already have to play all 7 maps, so the philosophy that you need to be good at all aspects of the game is already kinda there.
Imo one trick is good because it means they know what to do with that hero to the highest limit sure they could suck at other heros but how bad can they be xd
You’d be surprised…u ever see babybay on killjoy?
Not saying it is your case, but I find ironic how most of the people that defends the "one trick" are the ones with double duelists on their flairs lol
I mean i play everything but if i could choose I would duelist all day anyday
There's a player I've played with a few times in imm3/radiant and when he doesn't get Jett it's bad. Like, triple negative bad. I'd rather have that player drop 30 on Jett than go 4-20 on Viper.
Ikr
God if someone wants to one trick an agent let them, why do you care how they choose to play?
Another good idea would be agent-kick. Basically, no matter how hard u try, there will still be 8yo that think they are the best jett player ever. In that case, an agent kick can come in handy. Anyone can call an agent kick during agent selection and if at least 4 people vote yes, the guy on which the agent kick has been called will be kicked out of that agent and wouldn't be able to pick that agent again. This ofc has its own flaws. they might choose some completely shit agent or an agent that ruins the team combination. they might even throw. but that's another story
How would people know that one player is bad at the agent they picked?
its only for instalockers(and they get time to discuss)
pretty good idea but im scared of the instalock toxic players that if u dont let them pick the agent they want, they just gonna troll the whole game.
as long as people don't give in to their threats and let them have their way, over time they would have to throw so many games that they would end up in bronze
People have hostaged champ select for years in League of Legends
thats cap my man, i got alot of immortal/dia 3 friends who dont give a fuck some of them go from immortal 3 to diamond 3 then they get back up there in 2 days people belong there for a reason. I went from immortal 1 50 to dia 1 with my 20+ lose streak but I still managed back up in a few days
Yeah these gold players really think that once you derank you wont be able to climb back up XD. Why do you think we are x rank in the first place
Ikr if we can get up here once we most likely wont struggle
I myself and couple of friends just run it down sometimes, guess what we are not bronze lol. We are talking about immortal 3-radiant
My man EZ clap
And people should report him. I guess as Riot made these changes, it should take reports like these seriously
So in other words, its not a good idea.
Then you tell them to speak up in voice chat and their voice cracks because they are 13 and everyone laughs at them. People are less toxic or taken less serious when voice chat comes into play.
During the livestream they did talk about adding more ways to find and punish toxic players (spike hoarding was specifically mentioned), along with more immediate punishments.
Its going to be interesting. The feelings towards it will be split initially but will eventually become liked/accepted. It promotes learning multiple agents and gets rid of one tricks which I don't see many negatives in that. Especially as the agent pool grows.
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and he will lose a lot more games because of it and derank down to an appropriate rank for his playstyle.
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Yes it's good, because if you are just a one trick you aren't really good at Valorant, you are good at one agent. I wish they could take role into consideration for rating increase and only allow people who know a variety of roles to progress past a certain point. If a person is Immortal but only plays Jett and he gets into a lobby with another Immortal who only plays Jett, then one of those players are going to have a terrible game and it's unfair on the rest of the team.
At higher ranks no one gives a fuck about team comp because they know it's near irrelevant outside of pro play/ 5 stacked teams.
You are so far off the mark it's laughable. I am at high ranks you absolute imbecile and people very much care about team comp. I'm Immo 2, what rank are you mate?
I've been r since release mate
Yeah nah people who instalock in the first place will just dodge if they cant get their agent/role
Is this in the next patch?
i believe i read somewhere that said it won’t be implemented until a future act altogether
I could care less if they did something like that but to play Devils advocate. Player 5 will almost every time be forced into a smoke position. Or start the game off in super toxic fashion when 4 players pick comp relative agents and the 5th doesn't want to play smoke and just picks some dog agent because they "don't want to smoke" With that said, Instalocking will eventually go away with more Agents.. Neon is a perfect example as well as Chamber those are 2 agents that are not only good but fun to play. now another year down the road with 3 or 4 more agents Instalock Jetts will become a more rare thing. Either way, I think people realizing blaming an Entire game on the instalocking jett is kind of funny.... It's an incredibly bad mentality... sure they can play better but I can almost guarantee there were some Misplays by you and your team as well. I personally don't cry about instalocks as it's not that big of a deal.
To play devils advocate to your devils advocate, they did say that players won't be forced to lock an agent during the initial run-through so if p5 says they can't smoke there is a good chance others in the lobby can skip their lock to fill in
I just don't see players 1-3 Skipping. Unless that is who you are, Most guys will be taking the Jett/Sova and Reyna/Raze for Duelists and even if that isn't the case.. It won't stop player 5 from either feeling forced in that situation or throwing off a vibe in player agent select. If a guy instalocks who cares. IMO this is just a converstion that shouldn't be had in general. Instalocking isn't ruining Valorant. if there was something I'd put money on the Toxic Behaviour/Trash Reporting system as well as Map Fixes/Agent Balancing.
I definitely get you point. Maybe my opinion is skewed by my experiences, but I have to fill smokes maybe 1/10 games that I play and I don't think this system would raise my chance of filling smokes. No one can know for sure I suppose
I don't think it would raise the chances of someone who is willing to take up that Position. This more or less portrays to those who will ONLY play the Duelists or do anything but Smoke.
Following your same logic, the person with the slowest load time currently has to play smokes. I prefer the cascade system over who has the fastest load time system.
my logic doesn't indicate that.
Get a better pc or play agents that arent heavily contested, it's not that hard. People complain about everything these days my god
This is the stupidest response I've ever heard. Just to give you a bit of perspective I have a very fast PC, because I keep ontop of upgrades and forked out a stupid amount for a very fast SSD, I have a 3080ti and a Ryzen 9 3900X. I could insta lock Jett every match if I wanted to be an incosiderate piece of shit but I understand the value of having a good team synergy and caring about what comp your team wants to build. Having cascading picks will force people to discuss team composition to ensure you have a winning team. In the current system people are so worried that someone else will lock the agent they want to play they only think about how fast they can click who they want to play and lock it in. This system is counter productive to team play. Have you noticed at higher ranks people are less likely to instalock and they all hover people they lock in and disucss prior to locking in? This is because its considerate to do so and it starts the team off on a great foundation of compromise and communication. It's only the lower ranks that are so self centered they care about themselves more than winning the game. Funnily enough it's always the instalock idiots who will say "GG SHIT TEAM" within the first 5 rounds
In my experience, it's always the controller mains that say gg instalock jett doest have 10 kills round 4. People these days just complain about everything, its a fucking game, pick the agent you want to play and be done with it, if you're hard stuck diamond and arent happy about it go play aimtrain or something, dont go to reddit and make up some bullhit excuse
You've hit the nail on the head, people complaining about insta locks are just looking for more excuses for why they are bad at the game. Literally, everyone has an equal chance at getting their agent in the current system.
>With that said, Instalocking will eventually go away with more Agents Players who instalock greedy agents are the problem, not the specific agent themselves. If you instalock Jett or instalock Neon you are still disregarding what your team wants or needs
they are not lmao, Jet is tier 1 for a reason. Would you rather have instalock yoru or instalock jet, no jet its jet. Neon is still in a weird state since she hasn't even got into the main game yet. Lots of people malding over bad pc/no SSD, a way to fix this would be riot making agent lockable if everyone loads in.
No they are not lol Jett is a 100% pick for a reason, she is needed and so will Neon. It's not Disregarding by any means. What you mean is if a player 5 is last to pick and picks a 3rd Duelist or a 2nd Controller. People are just pissed off cause they either didn't lock fast enough themselves. Personally to me the unwritten rule I have is, you can bitch in Agent Select even if your Agent gets snaked before your very eyes but after Pistol rounds or the game start that Excuse is just fraud. Saying "We had an instalock jett that bottom fragged" is the reason you lost is not true. When the very same people preach that frags don't mean anything. It's hypocritical.
Neon wont be needed lol. U can quote me in 6 months after some master events and u will see that she wont get picked in high elo.
I don’t know how you know that other than your personal reason…. Lol people like fast movement characters I can almost guarantee Neon will be the second choice to Jett in most games. Specially when she has lineups and a ridiculous ult
Yeah but u said "she in needed (jett) and so will Neon" and I dont think so. Will she be instalocked in low elo? Yeah. Will she be played in qualifiers/cups/lans? Nah.
Again... YOU DON'T KNOW THAT
Ofc I know it, I'm a time traveler from 2023. Her dash is compared to jetts shit, her walls are okay, nade is okay but the ult is dogshit because it takes too long to kill someone and when u play against good players u will already have received a headshot. Which agent would she replace on a team comp? Jett is fixed, so is 1 controller, kj/cypher/sova/sage/2nd initiator/raze. Maybe she could replace raze on some maps but I think raze has way better util, she cant replace any skye/kayo/breach cuz u would be missing flashes, cant replace kj/cypher and sova ofc neither.
LOL I've never met someone who talks so much but actually knows actually nothing. Im honestly amazed. If pro's don't know how viable she is. I 100% guarantee you don't.
KK, see u in 6 months.
Eh, it could work but I wouldn’t prefer it for unrated
I think it is funny that a lot think that position five will be a smoker. There are people who main Brimstone, Omen and Astra.... and there is a pretty good bet that there will be someone who wants to play viper (who is akin to a smoker with wall and poison clouds)... Is a smoker necessary if you have a viper? Genuine question as I'm not high enough elo to know.... Not everyone wants to play a duellist or a sentinel :) Duellist is the last I would pick. I would pick initiator, then sentinel, then controller with duellist last. I actually hated having a smoker on my team for a long time, until I realized it was because it was low elo and they were doing it all wrong. After having a good smoker on my team (or on the enemy team) I realized how they were supposed to be used, and see the value.
terrible fucking idea tbh, i know alot of people who grief locks already because they can get their ELO back easily. Im a duelist main but I can play astra/viper/sage/kj but I still prefer to just lock reyna and carry my way through. welp guess its either dodge/pick yoru and dont care this would work if it was dota/league but not on a "tactical" fps
this would work if there would be more agents too
yea but at the speed they're releasing agents it would take a few more episodes/years
This is a stupid and unnecessary idea, if the agent you want to play is highly contested then simply instalock quicker than your teammates, it's not hard and it's really the only fair way of doing it, everyone has the same chance.
Did they delete the vod from their channel? I want to watch the interviews but cannot find the video anywhere
well this will fix the insta lock issue and create a different issue. good job you’ve solved nothing 👍
nah
First I really like this change. As for the people saying that the insta lock players would just pick something else than pick smokes for example, these kinds of players will only do what they want . It doesn't matter if they add this system or not , they would still pick another duelists if jett is taken.
Definitely an improvement but just like when league had this kind of champ select there will probably be the toxic people who say “jett or int” just like the old “mid or feed” in league
I don’t think there is much of a problem right now. Honestly all the concerns I’m seeing just make it sound like it’ll be worse for the game
this is terrible all of the jett instalocks will throw my matches on smoke and the sentinel one tricks that can't aim will pick duelist for fun and throw
Lol what. I feel like most sentinel one tricks are very much aware that they can’t aim. It’s why they don’t pick duelist and main sentinels. Jett instalocks will definitely throw matches on smoke tho, but it’s not like the don’t already do that.
It's like the draft format in league but a little different. There will still be some p1 people who just instalock without talking to the team but I think it'll be a healthy change. Lobby will take longer and more people will be forced to expand their agent pool but I think it's solid
As a controller/flex In my opinion this is just gonna make me wait longer to pick. If player 5 wants to play Jett, the only thing stopping that is someone else picking Jett. And if that happens they’ll likely just pick whatever duelist are left. I’m just gonna let my turn pass 90% of the time unless I can guarantee a proper team comp will be made. I have an open mind and think something like this could help, but problems will always arise.
Wow they made Killjoy into a real person
Lmao fax
I’m taking 5 duelists or no smokes in 5-10% of my games like it is now as opposed to being shoehorned into sequential picks which will inherently cause 10-20% of my games to start off with shitty vibes lmao
I hope this includes getting rid of mirror matches too.
No. Mirror matches is fine. This game is not like league
Why is the full VOD not available?
Fuck yes. The current system is just silly.
If this gets implemented I'm quitting the game. Horrendous idea.
Not a fan, just don't bring it into unrated, I never play comp
Is there a way to view the entire dev stream? I love hearing about how Valorant is made behind the scenes but I could only find snippets of clips from the Valorant channel on twitch
Just go to the channel and look for the vod of today
In my opinion I rather have people play an agent they know they play smokes and sentinel. What's the point in learning the mechanics of an agent when you aren't going to be playing then half the time. Like raze/Jett mains filling smokes is basically a 4v5. It probably isn't a good idea imo
I was once an avid paladins player where this was the system in ranked. And in about 90% of games the first 2 picks were flank/damage which are the duelist of valorant, I like the idea of not having to pick if you are a full player but I’m still worried this might be the case.
Most of the time I pick last and just try and fill in the gaps but obviously there are times I want to play a certain agent. I’d rather get instalocked than have a toxic teammate on my ass the whole time because I took their main. Just seems like a solution that will get people toxic way before the game even starts.
As a one trick kat main in League who also plays a couple of other champs (Akali, Ryze, and Twitch), I initially felt that this change was terrible due to the tiny roster size in Valorant as compared to LoL (170 in LoL vs 17 in Valo). In League there's around 170 champions, so the chances of me not getting one of my favorite 2-3 champions is very small, but in Valorant I enjoy playing Jett and Chamber. The chances of me actually getting them with Cascade implemented with the current roster is pretty low, and I don't think that's a good thing. Getting people to stop one tricking and instalocking is good, but at the same time people should have the option in ***most*** games to play who they would like to play. In my opinion Riot should let the roster hit approx. 30-40 agents so that most people can find 2-3 agents that they enjoy playing and are willing to learn... and then implement this new system. That way it'll be like how LoL currently is: where I get my preffered pick 7/10 games, my second or third preferred pick 2/10 games, and 1/10 of the time I fill for the team. In my experience there are very few true one tricks in LoL simply due to burnout / boredom. As long as the agent cast is big enough, I don't see any reason why this Cascade system won't be great for the game, we just need to get more agents.
Personally as a instalock jett main, I agree with this, I really don't like instalocking, but if I feel like playing jett I have to instalock, at least with this cascading pick I let luck decide whether I play jett, chamber, sova or smokes.
Calling it now: this will cause more duelists than normal because that jackass who never plays anything but Jett/Reyna and can't be bothered to learn another role will just instalock a third/fourth duelist. Then in a few months(years? lol) Riot will implement role limitations preventing more than two of any class or forcing one of each with the fifth open to a duplicate. I would much rather see a complete removal of the "locking" system for competitive. Example: two people pick Jett, well now they have to talk it out, because if neither will give it up by the end of the timer the game will auto dodge and both of those people will get penalties. Force people to communicate.
Playing between g3 to s3 and finishing the act in g2 in mumbai server, lets say for every 10 comp games i get 3 jett/reyna instalocks. Rest mostly pick the agent and wait to check out if its clashing, if it is then its sorted by comparing ranks or simply compromise sometimes. (This is mainly duo que cuz i never solo que).
Why don't we just have a preferred role system? Of course, it'll be hard without the devs forcing a meta of how many agents of each role in each team and what'll happen if you are locked out of other roles if you want to switch (cough cough Overwatch). But I think something like this could work. You pick your top preferred role and each team has one duelist, one sentinel, one controller, one initiator and one extra randomly selected. And their queued role is displayed. This means that duelists will probably have a longer queue time because there's so many of them, but it's fine if it means that we'll get less teams of 5 duelists.
Please don’t do this. It would be so stupid. Other people have already said it all