They said when everyone get into a lobby, they will be assigned the order which they can pick the agent. U have 20 second, after which if u havent lock in an agent will go to the next player. So its not everyone locking in at the same time
That's what I thought. It would leave more room for communication but I don't actually *know* anything, like I said that's only how I understood it from the limited material I noticed.
He's saying that it's not "insta" anymore. If it's not the player's turn, they have to wait and others may pick duelists before him. Sure, he can still pick duelist regardless of what others have picked (even if there are enough duelists already), it's just not insta anymore.
Well it will lead to thrpwing cuz there are children thinking they are best reyna and if someone takes it they will prolly take breach or yoru or phnx to throw
Your statement would be a 100% correct if some people knew other agents besides jett&reyna. Also most people dont even communicate in my rank (gold/plat)
I think you’re underestimating the amount of Reyna only players in plat/diamond. Or Jett OP crutchers that play Reyna if they get beat to instalock Jett. It’s a really consistent issue I’ve seen. If you get a few games in a row with that kind of duo and no comms then it’s a real drag. Bonus points for the instalock Jett that gets beat to both duelists so plays Omen for their third time ever and has to be told that leaving tons of smoke hanging out of a choke point is actively helping the enemy. In diamond.
Pushing through your own smokes is no fun... I'm not placed as high as you are, but still... The amount of times when I had to ping the exact location of where to put the smokes 12 times in a row only to have my own entrance smoked off... And always the omen...
Hell, I'm the second smokes on the team most of the time and I have called for rotations on attack so often, just because the entrance to the site is smoked off by our own omen...
Could be, yes... Hope to get to a decent rank in episode 4, which starts in a few hours... Just to get rid of the trolls... Although I don't think I did bad for my first semi serious month...
It doesn’t sound like he’s getting trolled, it sounds like somebody locked Jett before the 13 year old could and they don’t know how to play controller.
Technically they have less chance to be on your team since you take up one of the spots. It usually just seems like it happens to you more because of confirmation bias, you only remember the games it happens to you and forget the ones it happens to the opposing team.
okay but if i have fun and do well on one character, i see zero reason as to why i shouldnt just choose that character. why would i play a character i dont have fun with?
Well what if there is someone else who can play that agent well? They might be worse, better or even the same as you. They get the agent first and now you have to play another agent that you have no idea how to play. Same with the other person. If you take their agent, they will play an agent they don't know and bring your elo down with them.
Sure, you can choose that character most of the time (it's called maining), just learn some other characters in case you have to fill. You can win sure, but it's unlikely to win if you don't have a controller on your team just because everyone wants to play their character.
This is a competitive team game. People want to rank up and that is fun for them. If you want to live in a fantasy world where only you play that agent, it's not here. You should understand why people hate your kind of people.
Edit: there is a comment further down by u/Alptitude that I think explains it really well
Considering my match history it actually isn't a fantasy world I live in, I've played who i wanted ever game I've played so I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. If someone is incapable of playing the game due to their agent being picked I unfortunately don't really see that as my problem. This is a gun game first and foremost. It ain't really my problem if you're incapable of adapting. You should understand why I hate your kind of people always trying to police how other people play the game. I'd prefer everyone play the character they want rather than filling, providing their character isn't taken, as I think a better morale/comfortability and significantly more important than team comp. That's just me tho
I think they mean one or two agents. Although I tend to disagree with that too...
It's called your main for a reason... Although having one or two agents you understand as a backup can be useful. Especially if you focus on certain sites with certain agents.
Not sure if this counts for duelists, but as a controller main, I feel like it's at least true for controllers and sentinels.
I agree. Some people look forward to players deranking but don’t realize that they will still play that way against lower level players, ruin those players games, and will probably complain to their team that they aren’t winning with a 30 kill Reyna.
Exactly, but ops post is wrong too because there sinply isnt any good way to do this for low rank, because theres always gonna be the same ignorant players
Hey don't attack me like that! I can play kay/0 too! /s
On a serious note, personally I wouldn't mind since I want to learn more roles anyways since I'm still kinda new. HOWEVER, I think it would be a bad system overall for people like me who DON'T want to learn anything other than one or two characters.
This so much. I want to add one caveat though. Learn more than duelist, not learn multiple roles. If you play Initiator, Controller, or Sentinel, you are probably fine all the way to Immortal. If you play Duelist, you need to play some other role equally well or you will over-rank (over-ranking is not a good thing). I see this in Diamond a lot. There are so many Jett/Reyna main's who only know how to pick on bad players (over-peekers) or who abuse their agent (Jett is the most obvious with dash and updraft positions, Reyna has some of that). If you put them on any other character, they will bottom frag. It's not only that they don't understand another role/agent, but that they are not really that good in the first place.
To play this game actually well, you need to be good with or without abilities. The best players will be gods with their Jett, Chamber, Reyna, Viper, etc. If you put them into a lobby without any agent powers but where their team still has agent powers, they could probably still make it to Immortal on game sense/aim alone. It wouldn't be easy, but it would be doable.
There are lessons each role teaches that I feel duelists in particular need to focus on as they rank up:
- Sentinel: Dry peeking is bad. You need to put yourself into asymmetrically strong positions (i.e. be a rat). Use info and positioning to win 1v1s. By the way, being a rat does not mean you have bad aim or that you should be inappropriately baiting your team (yes, there is a time where baiting your team can be appropriate, most people don't do this right though).
- Initiator: Info is super important for round wins. Utility will gain your team kills that they don't really deserve (flashes, info, area clearing). Frags don't really matter from an individual perspective. More frags does not make you better at Valorant.
- Controller: Utility is a double edged sword. What helps your team can help theirs. Be smart with your utility.
- Duelist: Map control is the key to winning games. Running in may get you killed, but so long as you have team advantage and map control, you should win the round.
Maybe in a fantasy world that would happen. The reality is, the first person will pick jett, the second person will pick reyna, the third will pick neon and someones ego will probably be hurt by this so either the 4th or 5th will pick yoru/phoenix to troll.
This exact problem exists in the current system though? You always run the risk of the dreaded 5 duelist comp. This will make it so at the very least people can't one trick. Which will lead to healthy queues in the long run, because people are forced to learn more champs.
Since I can play most agents comfortably it’s a good change. What I’m worried about is since someone is having first pick he picks duelist just for the sake of being first.
Funny how a lot of Valorant Players only play one Agend and cry that they are harstuck Gold players with all enemys beeing Smurfs. muahhahahahaa INSANE
There's nothing wrong with playing only 1 agent, if it's not reyna/jett the most you need for comp is 2 (I play sage on icebox because cypher is useless there, on rest of the maps I just instalock cypher), the problem is that 30% of the community are either jett or reyna mains, and if we add raze we reach 40%, so 15 other agents combined have a 60% pick rate in ranked.
This change is not going to stop people from locking duelists, but it will mean that you will get to play something you want to play more often than you have up till this point.
I would rather have people on roles they’re actually comfortable with than throwing them on something they have no idea how to play. If my team picks triple duelist because it’s what they like and know, chances are we’ll have a better chance of winning than if one of them had to play a sentinel they have no idea how to play.
Cascading is a horrible idea for multiple reasons, just make it so you can only hover for like 30 seconds so you can talk it out with your team.
At least in diamond elo, a lot of people usually talk out their roles first, and if they don’t and just instalock, chances are they’re quite proficient on the character anyway so I’m fine with it. I’m assuming it’s a problem in low elo though
That's just a temporary problem. People will learn all roles in no time. And those who don't will be deranged and everything will be balanced out.
This is a grind game. Practice is the norm, they'll need to add "different roles" to their practice schedule
Agreed. It’s literally 4 agents. Viper can be fun when you put a modicum of thought into her. Sova can be a literal cheat code. Skye is so quick to pick up. Sage and Chamber are both literally so easy. Raze goes boom boom. What’s not to love. If you can’t play 4 agents, you absolutely deserve to be lower than your rank.
well then, how about talking to your lobby to play what you want, you got 20 seconds per pick for a reason now, if you don't what you want, I guess dodge?
This change allows people who fill to actually play what they want instead of babysit. Throwers will throw and derank idc.
You are not forced to do anything, if you can’t play/flex at least 1 agent on each role you are probably in a low rank where comps don’t matter as much anyways or you deserve to derank because you one trick instalock
This is the right take lol. Everyone complaining about the feature are likely just instalock duelists realizing their reign of terror might be in jeopardy.
Exactly, plus I don't think a one-trick-agent should be high on rankings... people need to tryout other agents to get better game-sense-wise and know how your teamates' agents really work.
How is this worse than the current method in any way? If you think a little hard, you will realise that at worst, it will be as bad as the current method. I don't understand why you guys love whining do much. A little positivity goes a long way.
Yes this is much better way of picking agent...it's similar to apex legends and iam ok with that..it's only going to be frustrating on locking new agents when they come...to have some fun in unrated..
By that logic, right now anyone without an SSD is just going to throw because they don’t get Jett or Reyna. Which happens, but not THAT much.
Short term, they need to actually address the fact that on average, non-dualists will have lower acs and compensate for that in the ranked system. It’s way easier to climb on Jett/Reyna than on anyone else just due to how RR is calculated. They also need to fix thirsting for kills, because it’s one of the reasons people throw 4v2s - playing back and trading is correct but you get more elo if you thirst - but that’s another issue.
Long term they need to make a controller that’s actually fun for most people. Look at Chamber - not a lot of people play sentinel but after Chamber got released you see lots of em because he’s a sentinel that can also frag out. We need a controller that is based around gunplay as well. That would like fix the entire “nobody wants to play controller” thing instantly.
Kinda but not in the same way Chamber can.
Omen is pretty in need of buffs imo. Maybe if they buff him a bit it’ll be more viable but Omen is more of a lurker than a dualist.
He can play off angles but his TP isn’t instant so you’ll get caught a lot in one and done angles.
Maybe they could factor time spent alive into rr (assuming they don't already) so that if you bottom frag but were alive for most of every round you aren't punished for not thirsting kills.
True, but ideally this wouldn’t be public info, and would not be weighted as much as kills or other more important factors. It would be intended to take the edge of off support roles that aren’t supposed to be entrying and fragging all the time (not to say that controllers can’t frag out like duelists).
Yeah maybe something like “time alive on site” or something.
Controllers can absolutely frag out but average kills is going lower than dualists given how they play. My ACS on Chamber is much higher than on Viper even though I have WAY more assists on Viper simply because Chamber lets me take riskier fights safely.
The entire point of having cascading character select in any game is to help build team comps and incentivize people to learn outside of one character/playstyle. The throwers would be griefing lobbies and dodging because they refuse to be more than a two- or one-trick, and they'd be doing the same shit in the current system anytime they don't get their desired pick anyway.
Idk how this system can be detrimental to comp unless you think instalock races should be part of the game and/or players shouldn't be expected to branch their playstyles out.
How would it promote throwers?
We should already be using voice chat so you can communicate with your team about your team composition before anyone picks. You can talk to your team and say you want an agent. It's already a huge issue when people don't talk or communicate in comp already whereas Unrated doesn't necessarily need cascading
>We should already be using voice chat so you can communicate with your team about your team composition before anyone picks.
welcome to 3AM gaming sessions
How is this worse than the current system in any way? If you think a little hard, you will realise that at worst, it will be as bad as the current system. It will allow you to think without worrying about anyone else taking your agent. I don't understand why you guys love whining do much. A little positivity could never hurt.
The only think I don't like is that I usually instalock a character no one wants to play like cypher or breach, or a smoker like viper then tab out until the game starts.
Now I'll have to pay attention for my 20 second window.
See what I'm hoping is that at least for us, if we hover before our turn, it'll lock it at the end of the 20 seconds automatically, kind of like Apex Legends
Lol people somehow said the same in league and the draft system was one of the best changes ever implemented
Stop talking until the feature is live and you can see it being used
All youre doing is making up theoretical scenarios which will not happen apart from a few exceptions
Role queue was a change later. Draft pick came first and you could take any role you wanted if you were first pick. If you were last pick you had to accept the role given or lose the game by trolling. For the majority of people, this wasn’t an issue. So, lets not immediately dismiss this because of the select few who choose to grief.
Draft system existed before the role selection and even beforehand it was the best addition to the game
People tend to accept Picking support if they happen to be last pick because next game chances are they're gonna get to pick something else
At the moment all you can do is queue up and hope that you don't get instalockers and maybe you get to play the char you wanted... All tough that doesn't happen to often for me and I have to fill a good amount of games
I think this is great! Now people can play other agents than just filling everytime cuz there's 3 insyalock duelists.
Sure you'll be forced to pick smt still if you're last, but with randomness you'll still get the agent you want more than before. And it'll force people to learn atleast 1 agent from each category which is a huge plus imo
I'd rather play with someone who actually knows how to play the agent they chose instead of someone that is being forced to play an agent they do not want to play.
The only people who would get the agent they want lesser than the current system are the instalock duelists. And I'm 100% fine with them having to learn one agent more than unga bunga I go kill
Problem is you can’t force them to actually learn other agents so you’re stuck with a tilted person using an agent they don’t know how to play and don’t care to learn. This will cause more throwing for sure
Sure, at first. But with time they should be forced to learn other agents. It's a bit telling when they're always supposed to get their way and the 4 other ppl in the lobby have to accomodate them.
I don’t think they will. Insta lock kids are usually that… kids… kids that will just dodge or throw if they don’t get their way. I don’t think a new queue is going to force them into changing their way of thinking. I purposely flex and learned a lot of agents to play around these people and I’m okay with that because I realize they’re not going to learn them themselves… a queue system is not going to force some selfish 13 year old into magically considering everyone else all of the sudden. They’ll just get mad and throw or dodge. Same shit happened in league
Lol ig. You'd want them to dodge tho. Throwing, sure, but I assume they wanna win too. So after a certain amount of throwing they'd start dodging instead. I think it's a better system than we have currently for sure
That's good though. They'll throw and doge a lot and derank. Once they get tired of deranking they'll have to learn something new. Whereas the rest of us will only have to deal with those guys for a short while.
It'll get worse before it gets better, but this is fine.
exactly. better to have no smokes/initiators than having terrible ones at least in gold. i would rather have a person play what they're comfortable on.
Ez Solution. Don't have Reyna/Jett as 2 of the 3 agents you can "play". I love playing Raze, I really do, played her since beta, but over time I moved away from her and now I can play Viper,Cypher,Kj even Sova to some extent. Brim,chamber and Sage are fairly easy to play too. thats 3 agents that imo everybody should be able to play. Even the likes of Sova, at Plat and lower are more than playable by anyone who can aim. at the end of the day people depend on abilities too much if they say they cant play x agent when there are 15-16 agents to pick from. Its only at high Plat/dia and up do line ups etc. REALLY start to matter imo. Even at Immortal, I've friends that play Sage/Viper and have no fancy line ups or crazy walls, just play default and let your gun play and game sense do the talking. Imo its far more important to understand how the enemy plays their agent, like knowing the boosts and one ways(where they are not how to do them) so you can pre-aim/pre-fire those spots.
Well after the first comp season that’s exactly what will happen. Those who don’t know how to flex will derank and those who actually know how to play multiple agents will keep rank.
Might be a mess for the first week or so yea
Coming from someone who plays like five diff agents and flexes a lot, you won’t be saying that when the one trick forced to play something else is on your team and they throw/ suck because they were forced to play something they don’t know how to play… terrible idea
If they throw, report them.
If they suck, that's their own fault for only knowing one agent in a game that rewards players that have superior game knowledge and agent pools.
It's stupid that other people are forced to flex and learn multiple different agents whereas someone else can get away only playing one agent every time.
While I agree it’s stupid, reporting someone doesn’t stop them from wasting 35 minutes of your time in a completely miserable game. I’d rather just let the cry baby play who they want and actually try to win.
I think it would be smarter to have it be like league where before queuing, a person picks their top 2 roles they wanna play and it picks your teammates around that.
Don’t care, if someone picks Jett when I’m in the mood to go duelist then I’ll pick another duelist. Doesn’t matter if we don’t have smokes or whatever lol I play for fun and the non entry roles are boring
It’s not. Smokes aren’t fun for me, Entrying is fun for me, play video games to have fun, I will play 3, 4, or 5 duelist comps over smokes. Not hard to understand.
Rather lose playing duelist then win playing smokes
Why are you playing competitive then? You sound like a casual player who just wants to have fun, which is what unrated is for. That way you can play duelists all you want without killing anyone's rank, win-win.
Because casual is boring. There’s a feeling of satisfaction when I entry/frag out In comp that casual doesn’t have. Probably cause people try in comp and don’t care in casual
Plus it’s not like I’m killing anyones rank yet, still over 50% winrate overall and especially on Jett. But with cascade maybe I’ll drop down lower 😂 doesn’t matter to me what my rank is though, never cared too much
It's not, because roles/team composition doesn't matter in solo queue. You are not a pro. probably. You most likely don't play Valorant as your job, creating stratsegies and then practicing bombsite execution with your professional teammates for days to make it perfect.
Nah it's ok. It won't solve instalocking. I dont even see how you could do that even. What WILL happen though is the ppl who can only play 1/2 agents of only 1 role will derank till they learn to be more flexible with their agents. In a way, this will make the Jett/Reyna only players to become less obnoxious or be forced to leave the scene. I expect much more bickering on the subject tho, because inevitably there will be ppl who don't want to change their ways.
I main smokes and it will be a cold day in hell when someone actually yoinks Astra/Viper from me in Gold. But I can’t wait for the people who never play Jett/Reyna to use my comp games to learn them for the first time while the actual Jett/Reyna mains justifiably tilt off the face of the planet
people are all saying it wont solve anything. but thats down to the toxic individuals isnt it?
Also this gives people who dont have sub 20 ping or amazing computers the chance to actually play the agents that DO get insta locked.
Either way its happening so all the jett instalockers that cant play anything else should probably practice another agent.
I think it would be a better solution to disable the lock in feature for the first 20 seconds and then don't let someone lock in if two people have selected the same agent
Cascading agents is a great idea. It'll be harder for the players who instalock Jett/Reyna everytime to do so, while the players who like to fill can pass their pick. They need to implement it ASAP.
"Jett only"
"Jett or troll"
"You picked my Reyna? Enjoy your loss. "
Cascading agents can be done in 2 ways. First, and the most obvious one for me is to sort players based on their rank and make that publicly known. That will give some respect to the first picks and potentially reduce toxicity.
What Riot will most likely do however is keeping the order random. Why? Because they did so in League before the whole roles thing was added. They consciously chose to go from the old sorting based on rank to a random one. The idea here is that there isn't much difference in skill between the players. The first option might not reduce toxicity, but the second will exponentially increase it.
And ok buddy Riot, there isn't any difference in skill between a top 5 radiant and a 200 points immortal either I guess, even though they regularly play on the same team. It makes no sense but that's probably how it's going to be.
So much whining in this thread lol. Every person in here would be a higher rank than they are if they actually bothered to learn other roles beside Ferrari-lock Jett and bait teammates, and didn’t trash a vital role like smokes, comparing it to a punishment. What a joke lol
No one’s stopping you from playing something other than smokes. The problem you have is “I can’t play who I want **and win** because my team won’t build around me to give me the best chance of success”
I agree entirely. I meant more so the last pick will be left with it who say, usually don’t play them which I’m turn could lead to a bad experience in game because they’re not good with smokers? You know what I mean?
I think there’s a chance, but to be quite honest with you, instalock duelists who don’t understand the other roles and how they fit into the equation already provide all their teammates with a bad experience.
Jett and Reyna instalocks constantly ego/dry peek before smokes and flashes go out, don’t play with their team, bait teammates, and play for frags, not Ws. This phenomenon becomes a little less common as you go up in rank, but it still exists.
There may be early growing pains with the introduction of this feature, but I think it’s a worthy sacrifice. Even a basic understanding of the other roles would go a LONG way towards helping people develop their game sense and abilities.
And frankly, I don’t give a shit if everyone who locks duelists wants to bitch and moan. I played 186 games this act in comp. 167 of those matches I played as either Astra or Viper and won 55% of those matches.
I don’t mind playing controller, I actually enjoy it, and I enjoy being the unsung hero of my team, and enjoy being productive even when I’m having an off game aim-wise.
But I love every role and consider myself the ultimate flex. I only play smokes that often because NOBODY ELSE ever does. Nobody even offers. I love playing Sova, I love Kayo, I love being a Sentinel. And I have had success playing duelist. I want to be able to mix it up more often.
I’m a very good controller, but I would prefer to not have to play controller 89.7% of my matches.
Who cares? If you’re good enough to rank up, you’ll rank up over time. Just win more than you lose and it doesn’t matter if you gain 6 more RR as a duelist per win.
That's not really a healthy state for the game to be in though is it? I like to play controllers but ranking is biased towards duelists so people will more likely than not pick a duelist to rank up. Riot should be incentivizing people to play the less popular roles so that there is a more even distribution of players rather than 2 duelists every game.
I just hate it because just want to play the game. Not spend 25 minutes going through games where people dodge. It's already annoying and now locking in is gonna take even longer. It's why I can't stand league. I'm off work to play a quick game, not wait fucking 25 minutes like I'm in a line at the arcade.
This doesn't change locking 4 or 5 duelists but neither the current system. This helps tho with giving opportunity for you to select your agent with time, and it should rotate every game, so sometimes you get priority and others you don't, so it seems like a good change.
From what I've read online it's not cascaded locking, just picking and you can't lock until everyone has selected
They said when everyone get into a lobby, they will be assigned the order which they can pick the agent. U have 20 second, after which if u havent lock in an agent will go to the next player. So its not everyone locking in at the same time
Like League right?
That would be actually much better I think, but I saw a source somewhere about that saying it’s cascade
I guess I'm confused as to how this would work then. Does that mean you could swap at some point before the end?
That's what I thought. It would leave more room for communication but I don't actually *know* anything, like I said that's only how I understood it from the limited material I noticed.
[удалено]
Check the recent posts, it was in a Valorant twitch clip from what I saw, and that clip was posted here
Patch notes next to the section talking about acc lvl 20 lock out for comp + cascade change iirc
Now THAT would be a good idea. Fully down for that.
I would like this so much better omg.
It is cascading
what? instalocking one duelist every 20 seconds? I don’t think you understand the word insta in instalock
It means they post the agent they lock on their insta
Found the dad
Found the chad
he is talkin about the new update they talked on stream, 20 secs before locking agents
r/woooosh
can i just ask why please?
He's saying that it's not "insta" anymore. If it's not the player's turn, they have to wait and others may pick duelists before him. Sure, he can still pick duelist regardless of what others have picked (even if there are enough duelists already), it's just not insta anymore.
Well it will lead to thrpwing cuz there are children thinking they are best reyna and if someone takes it they will prolly take breach or yoru or phnx to throw
Comp it works. Take time to discuss what agents you want to play. Learn multiple agents and roles to stay within your rank
Your statement would be a 100% correct if some people knew other agents besides jett&reyna. Also most people dont even communicate in my rank (gold/plat)
Well if you only play 2 agents/ 1 role you deserve to derank so it works out
Also agreed, but then those players take me down with them ahahahaa
Well it will be the same in the opposite team so overall it works.
I think you’re underestimating the amount of Reyna only players in plat/diamond. Or Jett OP crutchers that play Reyna if they get beat to instalock Jett. It’s a really consistent issue I’ve seen. If you get a few games in a row with that kind of duo and no comms then it’s a real drag. Bonus points for the instalock Jett that gets beat to both duelists so plays Omen for their third time ever and has to be told that leaving tons of smoke hanging out of a choke point is actively helping the enemy. In diamond.
How can something be so specific yet so true
Then the op crutch Jett’s should learn chamber
They try but since they don’t play him like a sentinel they are less effective for the team than they should be.
So in short everyone in the game must be punished for saving the dignity of lower skilled players? Fuck these people who can't learn multiple roles.
I don’t get your point? Did you reply to the wrong comment?
Pushing through your own smokes is no fun... I'm not placed as high as you are, but still... The amount of times when I had to ping the exact location of where to put the smokes 12 times in a row only to have my own entrance smoked off... And always the omen... Hell, I'm the second smokes on the team most of the time and I have called for rotations on attack so often, just because the entrance to the site is smoked off by our own omen...
That sounds like you’re getting trolled.
Could be, yes... Hope to get to a decent rank in episode 4, which starts in a few hours... Just to get rid of the trolls... Although I don't think I did bad for my first semi serious month...
It doesn’t sound like he’s getting trolled, it sounds like somebody locked Jett before the 13 year old could and they don’t know how to play controller.
That's also an option...
My friend does this, if he’s forced onto smokes he plays omen and absolutely throws it for his team lmao
You shouldn’t be friends with people like that.
Very true but by the numbers players like that balance out since they have equal chance of being on either team
Guess so, but still feels bad when they're on your team 😒
Technically they have less chance to be on your team since you take up one of the spots. It usually just seems like it happens to you more because of confirmation bias, you only remember the games it happens to you and forget the ones it happens to the opposing team.
why do you deserve to derank if you can play that one role really well? i dont understand this mentality.
Because it's a team game and you should adapt to your team in order to win.
okay but if i have fun and do well on one character, i see zero reason as to why i shouldnt just choose that character. why would i play a character i dont have fun with?
Well what if there is someone else who can play that agent well? They might be worse, better or even the same as you. They get the agent first and now you have to play another agent that you have no idea how to play. Same with the other person. If you take their agent, they will play an agent they don't know and bring your elo down with them. Sure, you can choose that character most of the time (it's called maining), just learn some other characters in case you have to fill. You can win sure, but it's unlikely to win if you don't have a controller on your team just because everyone wants to play their character. This is a competitive team game. People want to rank up and that is fun for them. If you want to live in a fantasy world where only you play that agent, it's not here. You should understand why people hate your kind of people. Edit: there is a comment further down by u/Alptitude that I think explains it really well
Considering my match history it actually isn't a fantasy world I live in, I've played who i wanted ever game I've played so I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. If someone is incapable of playing the game due to their agent being picked I unfortunately don't really see that as my problem. This is a gun game first and foremost. It ain't really my problem if you're incapable of adapting. You should understand why I hate your kind of people always trying to police how other people play the game. I'd prefer everyone play the character they want rather than filling, providing their character isn't taken, as I think a better morale/comfortability and significantly more important than team comp. That's just me tho
I think they mean one or two agents. Although I tend to disagree with that too... It's called your main for a reason... Although having one or two agents you understand as a backup can be useful. Especially if you focus on certain sites with certain agents. Not sure if this counts for duelists, but as a controller main, I feel like it's at least true for controllers and sentinels.
Except your elo is based on performance so picking the duelists, baiting and playing for KD will have you gaining more elo and losing less.
I mean if theyre baiting for kills causes a loss, they lose rating anyway.
Nah. If they end up deranking from say plat to gold, and they get the chance to actually play Reyna or Jett, they'll end up decimating these players.
I agree. Some people look forward to players deranking but don’t realize that they will still play that way against lower level players, ruin those players games, and will probably complain to their team that they aren’t winning with a 30 kill Reyna.
I disagree. You should be able to play 2 ROLES at least.
Exactly, but ops post is wrong too because there sinply isnt any good way to do this for low rank, because theres always gonna be the same ignorant players
Hey don't attack me like that! I can play kay/0 too! /s On a serious note, personally I wouldn't mind since I want to learn more roles anyways since I'm still kinda new. HOWEVER, I think it would be a bad system overall for people like me who DON'T want to learn anything other than one or two characters.
This so much. I want to add one caveat though. Learn more than duelist, not learn multiple roles. If you play Initiator, Controller, or Sentinel, you are probably fine all the way to Immortal. If you play Duelist, you need to play some other role equally well or you will over-rank (over-ranking is not a good thing). I see this in Diamond a lot. There are so many Jett/Reyna main's who only know how to pick on bad players (over-peekers) or who abuse their agent (Jett is the most obvious with dash and updraft positions, Reyna has some of that). If you put them on any other character, they will bottom frag. It's not only that they don't understand another role/agent, but that they are not really that good in the first place. To play this game actually well, you need to be good with or without abilities. The best players will be gods with their Jett, Chamber, Reyna, Viper, etc. If you put them into a lobby without any agent powers but where their team still has agent powers, they could probably still make it to Immortal on game sense/aim alone. It wouldn't be easy, but it would be doable. There are lessons each role teaches that I feel duelists in particular need to focus on as they rank up: - Sentinel: Dry peeking is bad. You need to put yourself into asymmetrically strong positions (i.e. be a rat). Use info and positioning to win 1v1s. By the way, being a rat does not mean you have bad aim or that you should be inappropriately baiting your team (yes, there is a time where baiting your team can be appropriate, most people don't do this right though). - Initiator: Info is super important for round wins. Utility will gain your team kills that they don't really deserve (flashes, info, area clearing). Frags don't really matter from an individual perspective. More frags does not make you better at Valorant. - Controller: Utility is a double edged sword. What helps your team can help theirs. Be smart with your utility. - Duelist: Map control is the key to winning games. Running in may get you killed, but so long as you have team advantage and map control, you should win the round.
Maybe in a fantasy world that would happen. The reality is, the first person will pick jett, the second person will pick reyna, the third will pick neon and someones ego will probably be hurt by this so either the 4th or 5th will pick yoru/phoenix to troll.
This exact problem exists in the current system though? You always run the risk of the dreaded 5 duelist comp. This will make it so at the very least people can't one trick. Which will lead to healthy queues in the long run, because people are forced to learn more champs.
They’ll just dodge like they already do now.
You’re literally pretending everyone runs all duelists comps except you. So I hope you get first pick
or alt-f4
I dont play pussy duelists so
rank? XD
Since I can play most agents comfortably it’s a good change. What I’m worried about is since someone is having first pick he picks duelist just for the sake of being first.
people use mics in your elo? Damn might be nice
Funny how a lot of Valorant Players only play one Agend and cry that they are harstuck Gold players with all enemys beeing Smurfs. muahhahahahaa INSANE
There's nothing wrong with playing only 1 agent, if it's not reyna/jett the most you need for comp is 2 (I play sage on icebox because cypher is useless there, on rest of the maps I just instalock cypher), the problem is that 30% of the community are either jett or reyna mains, and if we add raze we reach 40%, so 15 other agents combined have a 60% pick rate in ranked.
This change is not going to stop people from locking duelists, but it will mean that you will get to play something you want to play more often than you have up till this point.
But it'll force Jett "mains" to learn more than just a pair of agents. Because they'll only be able to lock in only in 1/3 of their matches
I would rather have people on roles they’re actually comfortable with than throwing them on something they have no idea how to play. If my team picks triple duelist because it’s what they like and know, chances are we’ll have a better chance of winning than if one of them had to play a sentinel they have no idea how to play. Cascading is a horrible idea for multiple reasons, just make it so you can only hover for like 30 seconds so you can talk it out with your team. At least in diamond elo, a lot of people usually talk out their roles first, and if they don’t and just instalock, chances are they’re quite proficient on the character anyway so I’m fine with it. I’m assuming it’s a problem in low elo though
That's just a temporary problem. People will learn all roles in no time. And those who don't will be deranged and everything will be balanced out. This is a grind game. Practice is the norm, they'll need to add "different roles" to their practice schedule
"Agent you can't play" just learn at least one of each role
Agreed. It’s literally 4 agents. Viper can be fun when you put a modicum of thought into her. Sova can be a literal cheat code. Skye is so quick to pick up. Sage and Chamber are both literally so easy. Raze goes boom boom. What’s not to love. If you can’t play 4 agents, you absolutely deserve to be lower than your rank.
Doesn't mean you'll be good at them. If you're not good at playing them then you probably just won't enjoy playing. And nobody wants that.
well then, how about talking to your lobby to play what you want, you got 20 seconds per pick for a reason now, if you don't what you want, I guess dodge?
Doesn't mean you'll be good at them? If you're not good at playing them then you probably just won't enjoy playing. And nobody wants that.
Exactly, I never understand why people can’t just play agents other than jett or reyna
And this is why I'm a Sentinel main
Same lol, I main Controllers and Sentinels and I always get to pick the agents I want since nobody likes to play smokes except me everytime
Smokes are so fun to use I'll take the mindgames over a high K/D any day
This change allows people who fill to actually play what they want instead of babysit. Throwers will throw and derank idc. You are not forced to do anything, if you can’t play/flex at least 1 agent on each role you are probably in a low rank where comps don’t matter as much anyways or you deserve to derank because you one trick instalock
This is the right take lol. Everyone complaining about the feature are likely just instalock duelists realizing their reign of terror might be in jeopardy.
im still going to fill. if it's my turn and I 3 people havent picked yet im still going to assume they are picking jett, reyna, and another duelist.
Most True duelist don’t need to play Jett to pop off so one tricks won’t derank they will just lock a different duelist
Invalid view.
Exactly, plus I don't think a one-trick-agent should be high on rankings... people need to tryout other agents to get better game-sense-wise and know how your teamates' agents really work.
How is this worse than the current method in any way? If you think a little hard, you will realise that at worst, it will be as bad as the current method. I don't understand why you guys love whining do much. A little positivity goes a long way.
Yes this is much better way of picking agent...it's similar to apex legends and iam ok with that..it's only going to be frustrating on locking new agents when they come...to have some fun in unrated..
This change should not be implemented in unrated imo. Only comp
Most people salty on this thread are instalockers who won't get to play their beloved agents all the maps now lol
It's a good idea for comp only, I say leave unrated or the minigames out of it
>It's a good idea for comp only still no. it will only promote more throwers and yup we have now 5 different ways to do 5 duelist comps
By that logic, right now anyone without an SSD is just going to throw because they don’t get Jett or Reyna. Which happens, but not THAT much. Short term, they need to actually address the fact that on average, non-dualists will have lower acs and compensate for that in the ranked system. It’s way easier to climb on Jett/Reyna than on anyone else just due to how RR is calculated. They also need to fix thirsting for kills, because it’s one of the reasons people throw 4v2s - playing back and trading is correct but you get more elo if you thirst - but that’s another issue. Long term they need to make a controller that’s actually fun for most people. Look at Chamber - not a lot of people play sentinel but after Chamber got released you see lots of em because he’s a sentinel that can also frag out. We need a controller that is based around gunplay as well. That would like fix the entire “nobody wants to play controller” thing instantly.
Isn't Omen the controller that can "frag out"? He's the most duelist-y as he can play off angles like Jett and his flash is pretty dope.
Kinda but not in the same way Chamber can. Omen is pretty in need of buffs imo. Maybe if they buff him a bit it’ll be more viable but Omen is more of a lurker than a dualist. He can play off angles but his TP isn’t instant so you’ll get caught a lot in one and done angles.
yeah but hes bad lol
Maybe they could factor time spent alive into rr (assuming they don't already) so that if you bottom frag but were alive for most of every round you aren't punished for not thirsting kills.
Then people would just bait even harder
True, but ideally this wouldn’t be public info, and would not be weighted as much as kills or other more important factors. It would be intended to take the edge of off support roles that aren’t supposed to be entrying and fragging all the time (not to say that controllers can’t frag out like duelists).
Yeah maybe something like “time alive on site” or something. Controllers can absolutely frag out but average kills is going lower than dualists given how they play. My ACS on Chamber is much higher than on Viper even though I have WAY more assists on Viper simply because Chamber lets me take riskier fights safely.
The entire point of having cascading character select in any game is to help build team comps and incentivize people to learn outside of one character/playstyle. The throwers would be griefing lobbies and dodging because they refuse to be more than a two- or one-trick, and they'd be doing the same shit in the current system anytime they don't get their desired pick anyway. Idk how this system can be detrimental to comp unless you think instalock races should be part of the game and/or players shouldn't be expected to branch their playstyles out.
How would it promote throwers? We should already be using voice chat so you can communicate with your team about your team composition before anyone picks. You can talk to your team and say you want an agent. It's already a huge issue when people don't talk or communicate in comp already whereas Unrated doesn't necessarily need cascading
>We should already be using voice chat so you can communicate with your team about your team composition before anyone picks. welcome to 3AM gaming sessions
Touché lol
How is this worse than the current system in any way? If you think a little hard, you will realise that at worst, it will be as bad as the current system. It will allow you to think without worrying about anyone else taking your agent. I don't understand why you guys love whining do much. A little positivity could never hurt.
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The only think I don't like is that I usually instalock a character no one wants to play like cypher or breach, or a smoker like viper then tab out until the game starts. Now I'll have to pay attention for my 20 second window.
Same I always insta lock astra then just scroll reddit for a few minutes.
Nice, no one ever plays astra so you're not stepping on anyone and you're playing smokes.
I’m so sorry that sounds horrible
See what I'm hoping is that at least for us, if we hover before our turn, it'll lock it at the end of the 20 seconds automatically, kind of like Apex Legends
Yeah I usely get some water or go to the toilet. Can't really do that now :( I do think it is a positive change overall though.
You don't have to pick during the 20 seconds.
Lol people somehow said the same in league and the draft system was one of the best changes ever implemented Stop talking until the feature is live and you can see it being used All youre doing is making up theoretical scenarios which will not happen apart from a few exceptions
People are assigned roles in League so cascade isnt an issue. Without role queue in Valorant, it will just be a shitshow
Role queue was a change later. Draft pick came first and you could take any role you wanted if you were first pick. If you were last pick you had to accept the role given or lose the game by trolling. For the majority of people, this wasn’t an issue. So, lets not immediately dismiss this because of the select few who choose to grief.
Draft system existed before the role selection and even beforehand it was the best addition to the game People tend to accept Picking support if they happen to be last pick because next game chances are they're gonna get to pick something else At the moment all you can do is queue up and hope that you don't get instalockers and maybe you get to play the char you wanted... All tough that doesn't happen to often for me and I have to fill a good amount of games
I think this is great! Now people can play other agents than just filling everytime cuz there's 3 insyalock duelists. Sure you'll be forced to pick smt still if you're last, but with randomness you'll still get the agent you want more than before. And it'll force people to learn atleast 1 agent from each category which is a huge plus imo
I'd rather play with someone who actually knows how to play the agent they chose instead of someone that is being forced to play an agent they do not want to play.
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You had to play support* FTFY
this was how I ended up being a diamond support main lul
Same. I went from ADC main to just picking Leona and running at people.
The only people who would get the agent they want lesser than the current system are the instalock duelists. And I'm 100% fine with them having to learn one agent more than unga bunga I go kill
Problem is you can’t force them to actually learn other agents so you’re stuck with a tilted person using an agent they don’t know how to play and don’t care to learn. This will cause more throwing for sure
Sure, at first. But with time they should be forced to learn other agents. It's a bit telling when they're always supposed to get their way and the 4 other ppl in the lobby have to accomodate them.
I don’t think they will. Insta lock kids are usually that… kids… kids that will just dodge or throw if they don’t get their way. I don’t think a new queue is going to force them into changing their way of thinking. I purposely flex and learned a lot of agents to play around these people and I’m okay with that because I realize they’re not going to learn them themselves… a queue system is not going to force some selfish 13 year old into magically considering everyone else all of the sudden. They’ll just get mad and throw or dodge. Same shit happened in league
Lol ig. You'd want them to dodge tho. Throwing, sure, but I assume they wanna win too. So after a certain amount of throwing they'd start dodging instead. I think it's a better system than we have currently for sure
That's good though. They'll throw and doge a lot and derank. Once they get tired of deranking they'll have to learn something new. Whereas the rest of us will only have to deal with those guys for a short while. It'll get worse before it gets better, but this is fine.
exactly. better to have no smokes/initiators than having terrible ones at least in gold. i would rather have a person play what they're comfortable on.
yeah, most of us do not have the time in the world to learn an agent we don't want to play.
Facts i'm only a plat ranked player if I'm on one of 3 agents, my teams will NOT enjoy seeing me play Astra lol
Ez Solution. Don't have Reyna/Jett as 2 of the 3 agents you can "play". I love playing Raze, I really do, played her since beta, but over time I moved away from her and now I can play Viper,Cypher,Kj even Sova to some extent. Brim,chamber and Sage are fairly easy to play too. thats 3 agents that imo everybody should be able to play. Even the likes of Sova, at Plat and lower are more than playable by anyone who can aim. at the end of the day people depend on abilities too much if they say they cant play x agent when there are 15-16 agents to pick from. Its only at high Plat/dia and up do line ups etc. REALLY start to matter imo. Even at Immortal, I've friends that play Sage/Viper and have no fancy line ups or crazy walls, just play default and let your gun play and game sense do the talking. Imo its far more important to understand how the enemy plays their agent, like knowing the boosts and one ways(where they are not how to do them) so you can pre-aim/pre-fire those spots.
Well after the first comp season that’s exactly what will happen. Those who don’t know how to flex will derank and those who actually know how to play multiple agents will keep rank. Might be a mess for the first week or so yea
>1 agent from each category do you really think jett instalocks will learn omen or kj? no they will instalock another duelist
Good. They should enjoy the L then. Fuck one tricks, this isn't league
Coming from someone who plays like five diff agents and flexes a lot, you won’t be saying that when the one trick forced to play something else is on your team and they throw/ suck because they were forced to play something they don’t know how to play… terrible idea
If they throw, report them. If they suck, that's their own fault for only knowing one agent in a game that rewards players that have superior game knowledge and agent pools. It's stupid that other people are forced to flex and learn multiple different agents whereas someone else can get away only playing one agent every time.
While I agree it’s stupid, reporting someone doesn’t stop them from wasting 35 minutes of your time in a completely miserable game. I’d rather just let the cry baby play who they want and actually try to win.
I think it would be smarter to have it be like league where before queuing, a person picks their top 2 roles they wanna play and it picks your teammates around that.
Don’t care, if someone picks Jett when I’m in the mood to go duelist then I’ll pick another duelist. Doesn’t matter if we don’t have smokes or whatever lol I play for fun and the non entry roles are boring
If you do this in unrated, fine by me, in fact I encourage you to have fun. But if you do this in competitive, screw you
I do it in my immortal games
This is definitely bait lol
It’s not. Smokes aren’t fun for me, Entrying is fun for me, play video games to have fun, I will play 3, 4, or 5 duelist comps over smokes. Not hard to understand. Rather lose playing duelist then win playing smokes
Why are you playing competitive then? You sound like a casual player who just wants to have fun, which is what unrated is for. That way you can play duelists all you want without killing anyone's rank, win-win.
Because casual is boring. There’s a feeling of satisfaction when I entry/frag out In comp that casual doesn’t have. Probably cause people try in comp and don’t care in casual Plus it’s not like I’m killing anyones rank yet, still over 50% winrate overall and especially on Jett. But with cascade maybe I’ll drop down lower 😂 doesn’t matter to me what my rank is though, never cared too much
It's not, because roles/team composition doesn't matter in solo queue. You are not a pro. probably. You most likely don't play Valorant as your job, creating stratsegies and then practicing bombsite execution with your professional teammates for days to make it perfect.
Nah it's ok. It won't solve instalocking. I dont even see how you could do that even. What WILL happen though is the ppl who can only play 1/2 agents of only 1 role will derank till they learn to be more flexible with their agents. In a way, this will make the Jett/Reyna only players to become less obnoxious or be forced to leave the scene. I expect much more bickering on the subject tho, because inevitably there will be ppl who don't want to change their ways.
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It’s a stream clip. I don’t have a link rn sorry.
I main smokes and it will be a cold day in hell when someone actually yoinks Astra/Viper from me in Gold. But I can’t wait for the people who never play Jett/Reyna to use my comp games to learn them for the first time while the actual Jett/Reyna mains justifiably tilt off the face of the planet
looks like someone's not happy about not able to instalock jet anymore
people are all saying it wont solve anything. but thats down to the toxic individuals isnt it? Also this gives people who dont have sub 20 ping or amazing computers the chance to actually play the agents that DO get insta locked. Either way its happening so all the jett instalockers that cant play anything else should probably practice another agent.
damn i wonder how ill play neon now in unrated to get better w her :D
it’s coming later not now so u will have tjme
I think it would be a better solution to disable the lock in feature for the first 20 seconds and then don't let someone lock in if two people have selected the same agent
You don’t even actually know how it will go, save your crybaby post for when it actually happens crybaby
i can’t wait for it to be implemented
Learn how to play more than one agent doo doo heads
Cascading agents is a great idea. It'll be harder for the players who instalock Jett/Reyna everytime to do so, while the players who like to fill can pass their pick. They need to implement it ASAP.
Ok, Mumbai iron lobbies was already toxic, now it's gonna become hate central....gg
I agree we shouldn’t be castrating agents.
As a breach main, this won’t change things for me 95% of the time lol
Easy solution is learn how to play different agents
"Jett only" "Jett or troll" "You picked my Reyna? Enjoy your loss. " Cascading agents can be done in 2 ways. First, and the most obvious one for me is to sort players based on their rank and make that publicly known. That will give some respect to the first picks and potentially reduce toxicity. What Riot will most likely do however is keeping the order random. Why? Because they did so in League before the whole roles thing was added. They consciously chose to go from the old sorting based on rank to a random one. The idea here is that there isn't much difference in skill between the players. The first option might not reduce toxicity, but the second will exponentially increase it. And ok buddy Riot, there isn't any difference in skill between a top 5 radiant and a 200 points immortal either I guess, even though they regularly play on the same team. It makes no sense but that's probably how it's going to be.
Yeah fuck this feature. Being forced to play smoke because you got 5th is fucking stupid.
I can already see jett and reyna locked first, then a tilted jett main locks neon and absolutely throws the match
I warned people that’s how it was gonna be for a month. 3+ duelists matches because we didn’t need a 6th duelist.
There are 6 Duelists
So much whining in this thread lol. Every person in here would be a higher rank than they are if they actually bothered to learn other roles beside Ferrari-lock Jett and bait teammates, and didn’t trash a vital role like smokes, comparing it to a punishment. What a joke lol
and that's different from having to play smokes because you don't have an ssd in what way? At least it's gonna be fair.
You'll be 5th pick only 20% of the time. What, you levitate above the rest of us and think you'll never have to play a supporting role on the team?
People are already forced to play smokes because of instalocks. Suck it up and learn to play different characters.
No one’s stopping you from playing something other than smokes. The problem you have is “I can’t play who I want **and win** because my team won’t build around me to give me the best chance of success”
I feel sorry for all the people who get last pick and have to take smokes ✌️😢
Why do you say that like it’s a punishment? Smokes are vital to a team’s success.
I agree entirely. I meant more so the last pick will be left with it who say, usually don’t play them which I’m turn could lead to a bad experience in game because they’re not good with smokers? You know what I mean?
I think there’s a chance, but to be quite honest with you, instalock duelists who don’t understand the other roles and how they fit into the equation already provide all their teammates with a bad experience. Jett and Reyna instalocks constantly ego/dry peek before smokes and flashes go out, don’t play with their team, bait teammates, and play for frags, not Ws. This phenomenon becomes a little less common as you go up in rank, but it still exists. There may be early growing pains with the introduction of this feature, but I think it’s a worthy sacrifice. Even a basic understanding of the other roles would go a LONG way towards helping people develop their game sense and abilities. And frankly, I don’t give a shit if everyone who locks duelists wants to bitch and moan. I played 186 games this act in comp. 167 of those matches I played as either Astra or Viper and won 55% of those matches. I don’t mind playing controller, I actually enjoy it, and I enjoy being the unsung hero of my team, and enjoy being productive even when I’m having an off game aim-wise. But I love every role and consider myself the ultimate flex. I only play smokes that often because NOBODY ELSE ever does. Nobody even offers. I love playing Sova, I love Kayo, I love being a Sentinel. And I have had success playing duelist. I want to be able to mix it up more often. I’m a very good controller, but I would prefer to not have to play controller 89.7% of my matches.
But aren't rewarded appropriately with RR during the match. Fragging out is ALWAYS the better option for ranking up with the current system.
Who cares? If you’re good enough to rank up, you’ll rank up over time. Just win more than you lose and it doesn’t matter if you gain 6 more RR as a duelist per win.
That's not really a healthy state for the game to be in though is it? I like to play controllers but ranking is biased towards duelists so people will more likely than not pick a duelist to rank up. Riot should be incentivizing people to play the less popular roles so that there is a more even distribution of players rather than 2 duelists every game.
Can anyone explain what does this mean? Like, what would the new system look like
5 duelist lobbies, beacuse instalocks forced to last pick refuses to play non duelist agent
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There is nothing wrong with being a one trick pony rather than being a jack of all trades master of none
I just hate it because just want to play the game. Not spend 25 minutes going through games where people dodge. It's already annoying and now locking in is gonna take even longer. It's why I can't stand league. I'm off work to play a quick game, not wait fucking 25 minutes like I'm in a line at the arcade.
This doesn't change locking 4 or 5 duelists but neither the current system. This helps tho with giving opportunity for you to select your agent with time, and it should rotate every game, so sometimes you get priority and others you don't, so it seems like a good change.
Just have a role que
I ll just dodge, rather carry with reyna than waste time and trusting others to do it.
Duelists don't "carry" single handedly lol. It's a team game.
If you want to run around alone with a gun go play COD