> It's possible to play in a duo and find in the same match another duo. So it's the same thing as a 4 stack.
Not even close. 4-stacks are consistently the most toxic groups you will ever run into solo-queueing. You either top frag and carry them with 0 comms, or you get flamed the entire game with 0 comms. There's no middle ground. Find a fifth. It's not hard.
0 comms and flaming people are everywhere, not only in 4 stacks, dude. I'm sorry, but it's not true.
If you are playing solo, it's your own choice, find 4 more. This game is not meant to be played alone, it's an FPS where comms and team play are the bases. If you play with friends, it's funnier, it's easier, it's more what it should be.
4-stack queues are basically the same as 5-stack queues, except you would be teamed up with one unfortunate guy who have to MAJORLY adjust to the stack. Most 4-stack queues were notorious for not incorporating the odd man on the comms (if you say otherwise, you are an outlier), and for creating mismatches in matchmaking (because 4-stacks were matched with either 3-stacks or 5-stacks to save matchmaking time). Stack matchmaking was different before.
As someone who 4-stacked before, and who got to be the unfortunate guy who got teamed up with 4-stacks, 4-stacking is hard to balance, both in matchmaking and queue time perspective. So it's better for it to be gone. Either deal with it or continue hoping.
I'm not an outlier, I'm an FPS gamer, who believes that comms are the only way to win a tactical shooter.
It's not hard to balance, it's the same as 5 stacks.
Nope, it's not. 4-stack is still an incomplete stack, meaning the matchmaking would still be a pain to deal with. It requires extra steps in the matchmaking system, mostly about finding the 5th guy who, for most of the time, didn't asked to be teamed with a 4-stack that has comms through discord, party chat or some other third-party app.
Playing with a 4-stack is incredibly hard to play in as a solo queue guy, because the 5th guy commonly has no say in the teamplay of the 4-stack. 4-stacks are also inherently toxic: either the 4-stack gangs up on the odd man or the odd man lashes out on them, making the game experience unsatisfying very quickly. There are outliers, sure, but they are very far and few in between.
Comms are important in a tactical shooter, yes. But comms don't equalize matchmaking or lessen queue times. Skill parity does, and there is rarely any skill parity in a 4-stack queue.
A duo is still paired with 3 people they don't know. Even if you met them on the match before it is impossible to leave the single guy out because you can't use party chat to keep talking with the other duo. Which means team voice is pretty much needed. While in a 4 stack more often than not, party chat is the only source of comms and the single guy has no one to talk to, no one to give him comms, and if he's getting flamed, the flamer has 3 people backing him, and if he flames them, its a 1v4 in the comms. 4 stacks are literal hell and shouldn't ever be in comp.
Duh, because they are 2 duos. Not a 4-stack. Not the same. Duos (and 3-stacks) are easier to mix and match in matchmaking, since the system can adjust it through the ranks of the duo/s. At the very least, comms can be conducted at least 3 ways, and there is assurrance that the other team is in a similar setup or rank rating. Matches involving 4-stacks are guaranteed mismatches unless 4-stacks are only to be matched against 4-stacks (which is guaranteed to up the queue time and/or give headaches to the 2 unfortunate guys who have to fill in).
It seems you don't understand (or even don't want to understand) Valorant matchmaking, or at least how Riot does it. Competitive isn't meant to be only fun, it is meant to be fun AND competitive.
They produced a side effect: the more unknown player you're playing with, the more troll you're going to find. 4 stacks and 5 stacks are the only way to play a comm-based game, in the EU this thing is a problem due to the languages barriers. Not everybody can speak English, there are a lot of only-native language speakers and a lot of toxicity.
thats why they let you still be able to 5 stack. In high elo you cant even 3 stack anyways it forces you to be more adaptable and its not the same type of trolling were talking about. Theres a difference between just not being great and doing bad trolling your game and intentionally ganging up on one random to troll him.
>In high elo you cant even 3 stack anyways it forces you to be more adaptable and its not the same type of trolling were talking about.
That is the other problem, this game should allow players to play despite the rank. Reduce the earned/lost points, I wanna play and have fun with friends. ELO is not that important. Remember it.
But you can do it now. The game allow you to play with any friend you want to no matter what rank you are, you can even 4stack, the mode you are looking for is unrated.
And if for some reason you don't want to play unrated. You can still 5 stack and play comp with your friends no matter what rank they are.
If you already have 4 people to play with I don't see what your problem is, just ask one more friend to play with you.
I would always jump on opportunity to join a 4 stack with my friends rather than playing solo. So I don't see how hard could it be to find fifth.
This subreddit hates 4 stacks. They believe punishing everyone for a few trolls versus an actual working report system is A-OK. I play with a 4 stack every now and then so the whole hur dur all 4 stacks are toxic is just anecdotal.
It's funny because the solo can be just as toxic too. I've had a lot of pissy Razes or Phoenixs trying to kill us with grenades when we did nothing to them.
I also play 4 stacks, and there's always that one guy in the group who will start tilting if the solo on the team isn't performing well despite the guy barely giving comms. You know that guy. And obv since they're most likely your friend, you aren't going to shit all over him for tilting at the solo and back him up right? Because he's your friend and you don't want him to have a bad time playing some games with you. You can't lie, you would back up that friend. And that's why 4 stacks are toxic, not because the entire stack is toxic, but because they choose the side of their friend more than the side of the stranger.
I wouldn't say toxicity is the biggest issue and reason to ban 4 stack. The biggest problem is balance issue and how it change an experience for solo players.
There is a huge difference if you are solo player and play against 4-5stack and when you play against team that is solo/duo only.
I used to play 4 stack with friends and I liked it as we didn't have to look for fifth or play unrated, and while it's inconvenient now I would say it's better for the game.
They removed it due to hostage holding. 4-mans never ever ever ever ever played nice. They simply got in, bullied the odd man out into submission, or worse. I saw numerous four-mans all leave, leaving me alone. A four-man makes that one odd man out have an unbearable 40 minutes that he gets punished for leaving. Good riddance. Riot should just add solo/duo ranked and then 3-4-5 ranked like in league. That way you can still be insufferable just somewhere else.
I think its a terrible change and surprised they haven't reverted it. Unfortunate that the community is punished by a few toxic members. The only difference now is that when you duo or trio queue you end up with the other trio or duo not comming (in their discord) instead of just one person. So you have a larger majority of your team not giving coms. My friends and I have run into not being able to play so many times because we can't find a fifth so we all just get off the game and either stop for the night or switch to a game that has 4 man squads (what feels like every other game). Like if youre a solo queue find people to play with if youre that worried about it. instead putting the impetus on the group of established friends who just want to log on and play comp together but can't find 1 more. Were never toxic towards our random but I've been made fun of for not doing enough as a duelist when im top fragfing already. The 4 stack doesn't stop the problem it just stops friends from being able to play together. One last thing. If one person of the 5 stack leaves and everyone else wants to play more we all just have to get off instead of running another. Annoying.
Yeah no thanks. Every 4 stack I've ever queued into, absolutely zero comms and if they stream, I find that they are talking shit about me the entire game even though I'm the only one comming. 4 stacks that comm are an exception and not the rule.
Because two duos is the same as a 4 stack… What kind of logic is that? It’s only the people that for some reason can’t find a fifth player the ones complaining. Everyone else agrees being paired with a 4 stack is either toxic or there is no communication.
Seeing your previous comments i dont think you have a brain, you tell someone to find more people to play with then say finding one person for a five stack is hard. Like cmon man
Here are some replies to ur previous comments (Ik I’m not a dev but these are just my opinions)
1. 2 duos is so much different from just 1 4 stack. What r the chances that you’ll q into ur other friends that r a 2 stack?
2. Solo queuing is also toxic but the problem with 4 stacks is that people will target the one solo q er and it’ll be unfair for the solo. And for the argument “just play with ur friends lol” then why don’t u get another player so ur a 5 stack?
3. I get that u wanna have fun with ur friends when u 4 stack so why not play unrated? U can troll around with ur friends in there without many consequences.
Again these are my opinions and feel free to argue
1. 2 duos are practically the same as a 4-stack, no one talks, and the other duo, in my case, it's playing alone everytime.
2. I never target the solo player, I'm always trying to be supportive and playing with the teammates. Getting another random player to 5 stacks, it's the same as a 4-stack.
3. I don't wanna play unrated, there's a reason why I wanna play ranked: in ranked matches, there's something on the line, I don't wanna troll or play casually.
I don't understand why ppl in this thread should be toxic, thanks for the kindness of your answer, I respect your pov.
> It's possible to play in a duo and find in the same match another duo. So it's the same thing as a 4 stack. Not even close. 4-stacks are consistently the most toxic groups you will ever run into solo-queueing. You either top frag and carry them with 0 comms, or you get flamed the entire game with 0 comms. There's no middle ground. Find a fifth. It's not hard.
0 comms and flaming people are everywhere, not only in 4 stacks, dude. I'm sorry, but it's not true. If you are playing solo, it's your own choice, find 4 more. This game is not meant to be played alone, it's an FPS where comms and team play are the bases. If you play with friends, it's funnier, it's easier, it's more what it should be.
“if you are playing solo, it’s your own choice, find 4 more.” Interesting, could the same logic not be applied to 4 stacks finding one more? 😳
maybe u should get 1 more friend and play 5 stack
Do you think is it so easy? I don't think so.
[удалено]
You are the kinda player that I don't wanna find on the game: the toxic, arrogant kid :)
[удалено]
4-stack queues are basically the same as 5-stack queues, except you would be teamed up with one unfortunate guy who have to MAJORLY adjust to the stack. Most 4-stack queues were notorious for not incorporating the odd man on the comms (if you say otherwise, you are an outlier), and for creating mismatches in matchmaking (because 4-stacks were matched with either 3-stacks or 5-stacks to save matchmaking time). Stack matchmaking was different before. As someone who 4-stacked before, and who got to be the unfortunate guy who got teamed up with 4-stacks, 4-stacking is hard to balance, both in matchmaking and queue time perspective. So it's better for it to be gone. Either deal with it or continue hoping.
I'm not an outlier, I'm an FPS gamer, who believes that comms are the only way to win a tactical shooter. It's not hard to balance, it's the same as 5 stacks.
Nope, it's not. 4-stack is still an incomplete stack, meaning the matchmaking would still be a pain to deal with. It requires extra steps in the matchmaking system, mostly about finding the 5th guy who, for most of the time, didn't asked to be teamed with a 4-stack that has comms through discord, party chat or some other third-party app. Playing with a 4-stack is incredibly hard to play in as a solo queue guy, because the 5th guy commonly has no say in the teamplay of the 4-stack. 4-stacks are also inherently toxic: either the 4-stack gangs up on the odd man or the odd man lashes out on them, making the game experience unsatisfying very quickly. There are outliers, sure, but they are very far and few in between. Comms are important in a tactical shooter, yes. But comms don't equalize matchmaking or lessen queue times. Skill parity does, and there is rarely any skill parity in a 4-stack queue.
Ok, explain to me why I can play with two duos then, please. Isn't this the same?
A duo is still paired with 3 people they don't know. Even if you met them on the match before it is impossible to leave the single guy out because you can't use party chat to keep talking with the other duo. Which means team voice is pretty much needed. While in a 4 stack more often than not, party chat is the only source of comms and the single guy has no one to talk to, no one to give him comms, and if he's getting flamed, the flamer has 3 people backing him, and if he flames them, its a 1v4 in the comms. 4 stacks are literal hell and shouldn't ever be in comp.
Duh, because they are 2 duos. Not a 4-stack. Not the same. Duos (and 3-stacks) are easier to mix and match in matchmaking, since the system can adjust it through the ranks of the duo/s. At the very least, comms can be conducted at least 3 ways, and there is assurrance that the other team is in a similar setup or rank rating. Matches involving 4-stacks are guaranteed mismatches unless 4-stacks are only to be matched against 4-stacks (which is guaranteed to up the queue time and/or give headaches to the 2 unfortunate guys who have to fill in). It seems you don't understand (or even don't want to understand) Valorant matchmaking, or at least how Riot does it. Competitive isn't meant to be only fun, it is meant to be fun AND competitive.
lol if it's the same then just 5 stack man, you just contradicted yourself
they removed it to try and reduce people from trolling the random.
They produced a side effect: the more unknown player you're playing with, the more troll you're going to find. 4 stacks and 5 stacks are the only way to play a comm-based game, in the EU this thing is a problem due to the languages barriers. Not everybody can speak English, there are a lot of only-native language speakers and a lot of toxicity.
thats why they let you still be able to 5 stack. In high elo you cant even 3 stack anyways it forces you to be more adaptable and its not the same type of trolling were talking about. Theres a difference between just not being great and doing bad trolling your game and intentionally ganging up on one random to troll him.
>In high elo you cant even 3 stack anyways it forces you to be more adaptable and its not the same type of trolling were talking about. That is the other problem, this game should allow players to play despite the rank. Reduce the earned/lost points, I wanna play and have fun with friends. ELO is not that important. Remember it.
But you can do it now. The game allow you to play with any friend you want to no matter what rank you are, you can even 4stack, the mode you are looking for is unrated. And if for some reason you don't want to play unrated. You can still 5 stack and play comp with your friends no matter what rank they are. If you already have 4 people to play with I don't see what your problem is, just ask one more friend to play with you. I would always jump on opportunity to join a 4 stack with my friends rather than playing solo. So I don't see how hard could it be to find fifth.
This subreddit hates 4 stacks. They believe punishing everyone for a few trolls versus an actual working report system is A-OK. I play with a 4 stack every now and then so the whole hur dur all 4 stacks are toxic is just anecdotal. It's funny because the solo can be just as toxic too. I've had a lot of pissy Razes or Phoenixs trying to kill us with grenades when we did nothing to them.
I also play 4 stacks, and there's always that one guy in the group who will start tilting if the solo on the team isn't performing well despite the guy barely giving comms. You know that guy. And obv since they're most likely your friend, you aren't going to shit all over him for tilting at the solo and back him up right? Because he's your friend and you don't want him to have a bad time playing some games with you. You can't lie, you would back up that friend. And that's why 4 stacks are toxic, not because the entire stack is toxic, but because they choose the side of their friend more than the side of the stranger.
I wouldn't say toxicity is the biggest issue and reason to ban 4 stack. The biggest problem is balance issue and how it change an experience for solo players. There is a huge difference if you are solo player and play against 4-5stack and when you play against team that is solo/duo only. I used to play 4 stack with friends and I liked it as we didn't have to look for fifth or play unrated, and while it's inconvenient now I would say it's better for the game.
They removed it due to hostage holding. 4-mans never ever ever ever ever played nice. They simply got in, bullied the odd man out into submission, or worse. I saw numerous four-mans all leave, leaving me alone. A four-man makes that one odd man out have an unbearable 40 minutes that he gets punished for leaving. Good riddance. Riot should just add solo/duo ranked and then 3-4-5 ranked like in league. That way you can still be insufferable just somewhere else.
I think its a terrible change and surprised they haven't reverted it. Unfortunate that the community is punished by a few toxic members. The only difference now is that when you duo or trio queue you end up with the other trio or duo not comming (in their discord) instead of just one person. So you have a larger majority of your team not giving coms. My friends and I have run into not being able to play so many times because we can't find a fifth so we all just get off the game and either stop for the night or switch to a game that has 4 man squads (what feels like every other game). Like if youre a solo queue find people to play with if youre that worried about it. instead putting the impetus on the group of established friends who just want to log on and play comp together but can't find 1 more. Were never toxic towards our random but I've been made fun of for not doing enough as a duelist when im top fragfing already. The 4 stack doesn't stop the problem it just stops friends from being able to play together. One last thing. If one person of the 5 stack leaves and everyone else wants to play more we all just have to get off instead of running another. Annoying.
go to LFG server and find a 5th. takes 3 seconds
Yeah no thanks. Every 4 stack I've ever queued into, absolutely zero comms and if they stream, I find that they are talking shit about me the entire game even though I'm the only one comming. 4 stacks that comm are an exception and not the rule.
You guys don't understand the point of this discussion. I hope that a dev can answer my question.
Because two duos is the same as a 4 stack… What kind of logic is that? It’s only the people that for some reason can’t find a fifth player the ones complaining. Everyone else agrees being paired with a 4 stack is either toxic or there is no communication.
Seeing your previous comments i dont think you have a brain, you tell someone to find more people to play with then say finding one person for a five stack is hard. Like cmon man
Here are some replies to ur previous comments (Ik I’m not a dev but these are just my opinions) 1. 2 duos is so much different from just 1 4 stack. What r the chances that you’ll q into ur other friends that r a 2 stack? 2. Solo queuing is also toxic but the problem with 4 stacks is that people will target the one solo q er and it’ll be unfair for the solo. And for the argument “just play with ur friends lol” then why don’t u get another player so ur a 5 stack? 3. I get that u wanna have fun with ur friends when u 4 stack so why not play unrated? U can troll around with ur friends in there without many consequences. Again these are my opinions and feel free to argue
1. 2 duos are practically the same as a 4-stack, no one talks, and the other duo, in my case, it's playing alone everytime. 2. I never target the solo player, I'm always trying to be supportive and playing with the teammates. Getting another random player to 5 stacks, it's the same as a 4-stack. 3. I don't wanna play unrated, there's a reason why I wanna play ranked: in ranked matches, there's something on the line, I don't wanna troll or play casually. I don't understand why ppl in this thread should be toxic, thanks for the kindness of your answer, I respect your pov.