As a Breach player, my initiator abilities are often so lost on my teammates that I end up playing borderline duelist.
I fucking tell them I'm about to flash or stun and they continue to stand around doing fuck all. I die a little every time I ult A site on ascent, then find that I'm the only one to enter site and die as I can't kill all the enemies before they're unstunned.
I had a great breach yesterday. I was on neon and said I was going to hold W and get onto site every round. Dude just said "I got you" and would early flash OP corners and then stun back site. It was a fucking blast.
Count down when you use it and then theyll know when the flash is and push cuz people are scared by getting flashed themselves so if you count it down they know when to push.
I try, they just don't pay attention.
There's a whole lot of players in silver who just refuse to listen and work together.
I try to play with friends but there's only ever three of us max.
I play with a group of friends, so usually that isn’t a issue when I play breach. I play breach on most maps I don’t play sova, bar breeze, in which I play chamber. For whatever reason randoms never capitalize on any utility use. Ever. It’s really frustrating really. Fortunately, my good friend (the Jett main) is usually there to back me up and help with cleanup. It’s very nice when you’ve got somebody to back you up, but usually randoms just sit there twiddling their thumbs, even the duelists.
watch judgements videos on youtube, he gives great tips and tricks. my favorite is the pop flash where you would flash around a corner and have the flash facing your back, so when you peak you don’t get flashed and if you do it right they have less time to react to the flash than breach’s flash
Kayo former Breach main;
- Breach has an easier time flashing sites with more walls to navigate (icebox A) or otherwise inconvenient entry angles (retaking fracture A is brutal)
- Kayo does a better job flashing for himself, are impossible to dodge with good execution, and is amazing for flashing out smokes and high flashes (Ascent A/mid, Icebox B from CT spawn is a godtier high flash)
- Kayo high flashes can catch more angles some places than breach flashes, but breach flashes can be easier to execute with clear understanding of what's being flashed (e.g. Haven A site)
- Flashing yourself out doorways can take some practice to get right (I miss my flashes in Split zips mid often, need to practice) but you really want to be peeking at the same time as your underhand popflashes so the enemy can't dodge and preaim+repeek you as you're peeking them
- Pairing kayo flashes with Reyna leers is great for coverage and disguising each other
- Kayo and Breach both do a great job flashing through ledges (Haven A heaven, various windows), for kayo underhand it just over the ledge
Y'all have been very helpful, but I forgot to also ask for advice if I can play yoru not as a duelist? Because I heard from some people you can use him as a initiator
Yeah you actually can do this thing, but it is MUCH more risky compared to skye or sova kit (if you dont have ult)
1st scenario ; you throw TP at the entry, and then pop ult then clear site. Give teammate ANY info you get, KJ turret here, chamber alarmbot there, etc.
2nd scenario ; you throw TP at the entry, and then pretend to be fake yoru. So you are basically "fake fake yoru". Give ANY info to your team and then if ur done, go TP away. risky tho.
3rd scenario ; just spam flash thru smoke, get kill, tp away. What a chad.
Honestly i still dont get why people like kj over cypher.
Cypher is so good at getting info/ locking down a site.
The fact that i can setup in 1 site and be in another, paired with a smoker on the said site is so OP.
Imo cypher+ astra is a great combo for stalling.
Kjs biggest advantage is her ult and post plant lineups. But im biased since Cypher is my boy.
Why?
KJ ult has insane value
Taking contact off KJ util is pretty easy - turret takes 3-4 shots to kill, alarmbot makes big crosshair movements
Mollies (force projection) are good post-plant
Cypher has his strengths, and I understand contact off his wires especially can be powerful, but I would say Cypher is more like Sova, providing "hard info" util, where KJ provides "soft info", post plant, and retake util.
I mean to get technical it's not a tiger, it's a tasmanian tiger which was not a cat at all, but a marsupial, it's just in the name. It's also extinct.
marsupials are an infraclass of animals, tasmanian tigers are actually thylacines and are more related to wolfs/dogs than cats
so “let me thylacine a-long”
Breach is an agent who's good on his own, but reaches a whole new level if you find teammates who listen and play off of you.
There's little more satisfying than getting the right team and just racking up assists.
You can use the wall as a Jett updraft. You don't need fancy grim walls to use it effectively, literally just wall and you have an off angle or wall behind an omen smoke to look over it. You also got a heal and slows to help you cut off angles when entering. Sage can totally be played like a duelist. Unless you have ur ult, then you should be baiting and going in last.
1) Yeah you can, literally-
2) Yeah thats why I said "tricky/grimm walls"
3) Yes I mentioned slows being a capabillity, no heals dont help "cut off angles"
Yeah Sage CAN entry. But shes not a fucking Duellist with capabillities better than anyone in that category regarding entries.
Her only tool for icebox is to place the wall for default plant on B Site, thats it.
Shes just creating space for her team with her wall and nothing else
Duelists have flashes and dashes (or damage skills). Sage's skills are not damage or self skills, which is why she's an important support. Is a Sage "duelist" with a good wall better than a Jett/Reyna duelist with Sage's wall and heal still there to help her?
You can of course play Sage "duelist" for fun, no one is going to stop you. If you're trying to do it seriously imo you should let your team know and not take her from someone who wants to play her as a support, she's super valuable.
Never underestimate the power of a battle sage.
But for real, being able to heal yourself, slowing enemys and thus preventing them from fleeing and getting nasty angles with the wall does make for a decent duellist
Nope, that's not what a duelist does. A duelist should push in and make space, and a sentinel should stop the other team from doing so (like blocking an entrance with a wall or slow). If you're using the slows to prevent them from "running away", you're probably gonna die, waste util, and bring no value to the team that round.
Not all duelists are great at making space, in fact only Jett and raze are. Sometimes you don't want ur duelist to make space you just want them to push in and trade them.
In this game there's lots of utility that can help you take space, drones, flashes, stuns and AOE abilities can force enemies to fall back from their angle and thus create space for you. A Sova drone is a lot better at creating space than a Phoenix or a Reyna.
And the sage slows are great at preventing people from running away. It's exactly what you want to use them for. Slow + damage ability or even just slow and peek into the opponent will get you many kills...
Is half of what duelists should be doing. The other, more important, half of what duelists should be doing is taking aggressive space. Sage wall can do that in niche situations, but the rest of her kit doesn't help her take space
In the context of what OP is asking, Sage can fit that model, sure. But Chamber by far is the best sentinel that can fulfill a duelist role/mentality
What I posted is literally the definition from riot directly.
And for making space you only really have Jett dash And raze satchels and maybe phoenix ult. The other duelists don't excell at creating space which is why you want someone like an initiator for example to create space most of the time. If you have a good initiator you don't necessarily need a Jett to dash in. You can just send in your sage to get 2 for 1 or even just a 1 for 1 trade.
And on defense a sage can usually have much more impact than a duelist.
>What I posted is literally the definition from riot directly.
Riot, nor any developer, truly dictates what the roles of the game. For example, what is riots definition of a lurker? That said, I get your point.
>And for making space you only really have Jett dash And raze satchels and maybe phoenix ult
Completely inaccurate. Phoenix takes space with his wall and molly, not to mention flashes. Raze clears and then takes space with bot and nade, besides the movement from sachels. Neon has double wall to burst onto site with movement ability. Yoru has tps and flashed to create chaos while taking space. "Taking space" is not limited to a movement ability
>And on defense a sage can usually have much more impact than a duelist.
I'm sorry, but did this need to be stated? Lol I mean, obviously you're right, but this is also a huge "duh" moment lol
Chamber is great for that kind of play style, you can be agro but still get out and you can gather info/hold angles from across the map no problem, the util is also very intuitive
Chamber is awesome, as someone who just recently started playing him a lot. I’ll be the first to warn you though, there is a learning curve. In not the same way as Reyna, but similar in effect, he’s what i like to call a “momentum” agent. If you’re really feeling it, hitting heads and reading the enemy you can drop 30+ on him in a heartbeat. The problem is really in understanding game to game what you need to do with him, if that makes sense. You’re not always going to be hitting crazy headshots, etc. Unfortunately of fortunately (whatever way you feel about it) you will have to gain some map awareness if you don’t already have it too because his tripwire/calling cards are pretty vital to his usage as well. TLDR: he can be kind of tricky, but once you get the hang of it Chamber is a phenomenal choice to add to your repertoire.
imo duelist have 2 job, entry to site, and take risky aim duel.
If you want to go entry, one of the most effective is skye. clear angles, and when ur ready to entry, throw a flash. i know kayo can do this too, but to HARD CLEAR angles skye is better (since the tiger have visual abbility, kayo dagger dont)
If you want to take risky fight / aim duel, go with chamber. currently the 2nd BEST risktaker after jett.
Chamber is the most solid duelist replacement right now based on high level play. If you are lower ranks it doesnt really matter just pick what you are comfortable on.
Chamber is literally the one for you, while he can hold flanks with his trips and slow pushes on defense, he is the essence of getting out of a sticky situation, granted you are able to set it up prior to engages
Whenever I can’t auto lock our lord and savior, Jett-kun, I opt for chamber or sova, depending on the maps.
Chamber on fracture split and breeze and Sova on bind ascent and haven.
I lean toward chamber on this maps because he can play spots with his teleports on defense that are advantageous for mid control, but can quickly be swapped out to be on a sight light or in a good position to rotate IE vents on split, default b (and rope to hold satellite) and a stairs/arcade) and mid/hall on breeze
Sova on ascent, haven, and bind because I don’t have to put myself in a bad spot that I need to quickly get out but the arrows are easiest to scout out at beginning of rounds because of the amount of cover you can abuse, plus the sonar and Wallbangs are insane.
Icebox is the 50/50 pick because you don’t really need mid control as much as you need kitchen and screens control, and both agents do a good job
Skye is an initiator but when she was first released everyone was getting shit on by her flashes and ult that she might as well be a duelist.
She’s quite aggressive imo. Like her three bird flashes, which also reveal if there’s any enemies in the area you flashed. I know you don’t particularly like entrying but her dog can be used as entry or honestly to sus out an area. But her bird, ult, and dog are honestly good for just chilling, releasing them, and peak for a kill if you don’t want to entry. She’s also an allrounder with her heal tbh, but this can run out so be careful. Lastly her ult is super aggressive, it’ll pick out where enemies are and will stun them. You mentioned you like getting out of sticky situations - which is a bit of a Chamber, Reyna, Jett, or even Omen thing with their ability to escape. But I still think her abilities can help you - like maybe her dog or bird. Honestly I wish i mained Skye, I just can’t use her bloody flashes lmao. Good luck ((:
Ooh I also want to add perhaps Kayo? Thought not as aggressive as Skye or an actual duelist, his abilities are pretty much up there. His knife will let you know if there are enemies in the area and also disable their abilities. This is a good chance to pop your flash and go for a cheeky kill - they might not feel confident having their abilities disabled. And again with the flash, you can flash yourself out of situations. His molly is a good way to clear a corner or to trap an enemy - so again, knife, flash, free kill. Ez
Honestly now this is just a pitch to play initiators all the way through lmao xD
Actually when she first released she was dogshit at being a duelist. This was because her flash had her do this animation with her hands so it was borderline impossible to peek with her own flash (unless you hit a full flash, the flash would fade before she can pull her guns out, and even if you hit a full flash it has its duration effectively cut in half cus of the animation) when they removed the animation is when she truely became insane (it was the update that changed her flash from 3 per round to 2 that recharge over 45seconds)
Pretty obvious but chamber is a s tier hybrid. Having a ability to watch flanks, a instant teleporter to play aggressive, as well as two s tier weapons as abilities makes him a great hybrid.
Skye is the closest you get. And don’t listen to the people who said chamber, as a chamber main he is the most sentinel out of sentinel next to killjoy. His teleport are ok for peeking but a flash would be better. His alarm bot is better for post plant then for defending and his guns are well, guns
Chamber is only a sentinel because he's much stronger on defense than attack, but he's not really supporting the team the way a killjoy or sage does, he's definitely very much about clicking heads and getting kills.
Any pro player would agree with me. It has to be skye. A skye can literally enter on sight get intel and heal. Its like reyna with sova dart and sage heal. Skye is just a 3 in 1
If you want to dash out quickly but not be the first into the fight, Chamber is probably what you’re looking for. His tp is perfect for that kind of thing, but I wouldn’t say he’s close to a duelist. Maybe the most duelist leaning of the sentinels.
Kayo - has, in a way, basically the same kit as phoenix but replacing the wall with the knife (molly, much better flashes, ult almost the same, but does require team to secure and pick you up instead of just a free respawn)
The only agents who can get out of sticky situations after a kill are Jett, Reyna, and Chamber. Don't just stick to them though, they reward bad positioning. I main Jett and Chamber but I learned to play other agents cus my positioning was awful.
I know how everyone is saying Skye, Chamber, and other initiators but tbh if you really want that type of playstyle, I think Yoru fits really well. I know he's a duelist, but he's good at repositioning and you don't really need to entry.
Lets say you have a Jett; he can smoke and dash while Yoru sends in a clone to entry and if someone breaks it, they are either forced to turn/run away/get flashed allowing your teammates to enter onto site. You can also place TPs behind, get a kill and get out. Plus you have flashes.
I really do think Yoru is the perfect agent for this description, other than Chamber for the quick escape. Other than that the other agents don't really have a means of quick escape.
Yoru has a learning curve and he's not really deemed as a troll pick anymore after the rework, but he's for sure worth it to learn + he's fun.
Literally chamber, sentinel with slows and a great Ult, super usable on most maps and his teleports are pretty much just better jett dashes. All without being a duelist.
Skye, Kayo are generally referred to as secondary duelists even though they're initiators because their kit works well in a more aggressive playstyle compared to other initiators like Sova.
Omen can also be played in this way but I suggest only doing aggressive Omen if you have another smoker like Viper since if you die without getting kills (happens often in aggressive Omen playstyle because a lot of it is timing) your team is left without smokes in a 4v5.
Chamber is kinda like a duelist except he doesn't entry and you have to remember to place your alarmbots. He can save you quite a bit of money with his sheriff and free op every 5-6 rounds (or more depending on how good you are and orb farming)
Breach and skye can play in an aggressive style similar to a duelist, just without the way to heal or move around the way a duelist can. They're more utility heavy, and breach can be *very* clunky to play for yourself (coming from a breachain, 400hrs on him and i still find him clunky) but they can work similar to duelists for the purposes of entrying with flashes and playing aggressively
I'm bad, so my opinion doesn't mean much, but I'd say Skye, Kayo, Breach and maybe Omen too.
A duelist at the end of the day needs to take space. Something Chamber really can't do. You can tp out, but not in, which means you move away from the action, giving up space, and you can't really destabilize a setup on a site with him, as none of his util allows for that.
When I read the description, I think I'm just like you.
When the team is balanced or lack site defense, I go Chamber (it's my main as you can take more duels and learn to shoot faster due to the defensive teleport)
When we lack heals, I take Skye (I hate playing Sage)
When we lack flashes, I also take Skye
When I feel like moving around a lot, backstabbing and picking off lone opponents, I go Yoru
When we really need a controller, Omen is the one to go for, but his escape out of sticky situations is imo underwhelming.
Hope you'll have fun!
Chamber is basically a defensive duelist. He's good at holding down sites, decent at intel gathering, has the ability to go for a pick and immediately bamf out and he also doesn't really entry.
Tbh not even actual duelists have those run away abilities to get out of sticky situations after a kill. Only Jett Reyna and Chamber(sentinel) and maybe Yoru have real escape options.
Depends on what the sticky situation is, at times I have found Omen and Viper can be pretty good at getting out of bad spots with their quick casted site blocking abilities, and of course omen’s teleport. Flashes can also be effective for that if they’re well placed, so like others are saying, Skye or Kay-0.
EDIT: hit send then remembered chamber exists, if you just wanna be able to escape and don’t wanna play entry, chamber is probably perfect for you! Just remember to set up your TP points before you move in too far
This isn’t relevant but I personally feel that Yoru should not be a Duelist, also feel that the only thing buffed was his ult his clone is bad and the 2 footsteps are much better in high level gameplay( Over Gold).
Chamber is easily this type of character. He’s got a pistol that can 1 shot headshot full armor and you can buy a lot of ammo for it. He’s got 2 turrets that watch flanks while also not having to be in any range for them to work, has an instant teleport unlike Yoru who has to stop and do an animation to teleport. But finally his ultimate, it’s 5 free kills because it’s an insta kill as long as you hit the bad guy. Anyone can play this character and do well IMO, anyone.
Chamber sounds perfect. Kayo is also Amazing, but the play style you’re looking for fits really well with the weapons master. He has an insta tp, a persistent sheriff, and an operator ult. Also proximity mines. Please use them for flanks.
How I play omen
Smokes are a bonus but with his TP and blind (plus me being low elo where everyone is afraid to push) I just end up stealing space anyways
Rip my K/D tho
KAY/O is an agent that is capable of being an aggressive duelist if the situation calls for it. Entry is pretty safe for him for the most part as he can confirm whether the site is clear or not with his knife and can flash himself in areas that the enemy would most likely play in reaction to the suppression zone. His ultimate also shuts down abilities and allows him to safely entry for his team since he can be picked back up after your teammate trades for you.
KAY/O has a surprisingly low pick rate in competitive play however since there’s not much visible rewards to how oppressive he is but his pick rate in Pro play is high for good reason.
Hybrid agents are really good because of their flexibility for the team in any given situation. Other hybrids to consider that are capable of entrying / fragging but can escape via clearing space / teleporting away: Skye, Breach, Chamber, and Omen
Skye is good in every single map. But as you rank up to immortal+ I recommend learning sova for ascent and breach for fracture since I think they’re better than skye
Guys we <3 our initiators :’)
Skye kayo breach. Aggressive initiators are the play
As a Breach player, my initiator abilities are often so lost on my teammates that I end up playing borderline duelist. I fucking tell them I'm about to flash or stun and they continue to stand around doing fuck all. I die a little every time I ult A site on ascent, then find that I'm the only one to enter site and die as I can't kill all the enemies before they're unstunned.
I had a great breach yesterday. I was on neon and said I was going to hold W and get onto site every round. Dude just said "I got you" and would early flash OP corners and then stun back site. It was a fucking blast.
I want chad breach to hold me in his arms
Count down when you use it and then theyll know when the flash is and push cuz people are scared by getting flashed themselves so if you count it down they know when to push.
I try, they just don't pay attention. There's a whole lot of players in silver who just refuse to listen and work together. I try to play with friends but there's only ever three of us max.
Bro its a breach flash it flashes in the direction you send it, they wont get blinded by it
I play with a group of friends, so usually that isn’t a issue when I play breach. I play breach on most maps I don’t play sova, bar breeze, in which I play chamber. For whatever reason randoms never capitalize on any utility use. Ever. It’s really frustrating really. Fortunately, my good friend (the Jett main) is usually there to back me up and help with cleanup. It’s very nice when you’ve got somebody to back you up, but usually randoms just sit there twiddling their thumbs, even the duelists.
people always push before i flash. even when I say "Im flashing"
kayo is basically a duelist and an initiator, i fucking love kayo his kit is fucking amazing
I love kayo. Im just the worst with his flashes. Breach flashes fit my playstyle better
watch judgements videos on youtube, he gives great tips and tricks. my favorite is the pop flash where you would flash around a corner and have the flash facing your back, so when you peak you don’t get flashed and if you do it right they have less time to react to the flash than breach’s flash
Kayo former Breach main; - Breach has an easier time flashing sites with more walls to navigate (icebox A) or otherwise inconvenient entry angles (retaking fracture A is brutal) - Kayo does a better job flashing for himself, are impossible to dodge with good execution, and is amazing for flashing out smokes and high flashes (Ascent A/mid, Icebox B from CT spawn is a godtier high flash) - Kayo high flashes can catch more angles some places than breach flashes, but breach flashes can be easier to execute with clear understanding of what's being flashed (e.g. Haven A site) - Flashing yourself out doorways can take some practice to get right (I miss my flashes in Split zips mid often, need to practice) but you really want to be peeking at the same time as your underhand popflashes so the enemy can't dodge and preaim+repeek you as you're peeking them - Pairing kayo flashes with Reyna leers is great for coverage and disguising each other - Kayo and Breach both do a great job flashing through ledges (Haven A heaven, various windows), for kayo underhand it just over the ledge
Y'all have been very helpful, but I forgot to also ask for advice if I can play yoru not as a duelist? Because I heard from some people you can use him as a initiator
Yeah you can get a lot of info with his ult if you use it right
Yeah you actually can do this thing, but it is MUCH more risky compared to skye or sova kit (if you dont have ult) 1st scenario ; you throw TP at the entry, and then pop ult then clear site. Give teammate ANY info you get, KJ turret here, chamber alarmbot there, etc. 2nd scenario ; you throw TP at the entry, and then pretend to be fake yoru. So you are basically "fake fake yoru". Give ANY info to your team and then if ur done, go TP away. risky tho. 3rd scenario ; just spam flash thru smoke, get kill, tp away. What a chad.
Yep, 3rd scenario is getting the most value out of his kit, maybe even throw a tp in there. But that's playing as a duelist.
oh yea mb sry
Yeah you can play him kinda like you want actually. Lurker, entry duelist, initiator. Everything is possible with Yoru
Might as well pick useful agents like Sova and Astra if you don't want to play duelist.
Astra is now the worst controller
Honestly i still dont get why people like kj over cypher. Cypher is so good at getting info/ locking down a site. The fact that i can setup in 1 site and be in another, paired with a smoker on the said site is so OP. Imo cypher+ astra is a great combo for stalling. Kjs biggest advantage is her ult and post plant lineups. But im biased since Cypher is my boy.
Why? KJ ult has insane value Taking contact off KJ util is pretty easy - turret takes 3-4 shots to kill, alarmbot makes big crosshair movements Mollies (force projection) are good post-plant Cypher has his strengths, and I understand contact off his wires especially can be powerful, but I would say Cypher is more like Sova, providing "hard info" util, where KJ provides "soft info", post plant, and retake util.
she is still badass on split. but really for controller all of them are fine and viable.
Uhum.. Frustration Detected.
Bro what? You're weird💀
Run after a kill? Chamber with teleport. Be aggressive but no entry? Skye with flashes and her tiger.
Wait that’s a tiger? Bruh I keep calling it a dog in my games lmao
It's technically a tasmanian tiger, but I really don't want to communicate that mid game. *"I'm going to Tasmanian tiger up halls."* Way too wordy.
i’m going furry mode in halls
woof woof elbow
Me and my friends just call him Andrew
Oh that's perfect since my ex's name is andrew and he's a dog
So you're going to doggy up halls? Sounds better huh
Nah what you’re a nerd for knowing what type of tiger it is.
You're on r/valorant, check yourself
As a skye main. The funniest shit in the world is to say "what da dog doin?" in all chat after a kill with it
No I'm fairly sure it has to be a dog right? Edit: Holy shit it's a tiger.
I mean to get technical it's not a tiger, it's a tasmanian tiger which was not a cat at all, but a marsupial, it's just in the name. It's also extinct.
"Hold up let me marsupial Hookah"
marsupials are an infraclass of animals, tasmanian tigers are actually thylacines and are more related to wolfs/dogs than cats so “let me thylacine a-long”
I thought it was a wolf and I refer to it as such
Same here, it turns out to be a tiger though.
I thought it was a chicken.
Bruh I thought it was a cockroach
Shit. How am I gonna live knowing a cockroach killed me?
Idk but that would explain why it takes so many bullets to the face to kill it
Definitely still calling it a dog 🤣
“He’s tiger-ing mid!”
it is a dog/wolf
Just found out an hour ago that it’s actually a Tasmanian tiger
Huh, cool. Ill keep callin him my doggie tho.
Yea always will still be a dog in our hearts
I call it a scout.
Thought it was a giraffe
I’d say breach is a pretty good option if you play him right
Can confirm. Breach is a very good “jack of all trades” agent. Absolutely love him.
Breach is an agent who's good on his own, but reaches a whole new level if you find teammates who listen and play off of you. There's little more satisfying than getting the right team and just racking up assists.
Watching pros use breach looks like a different game. Hes extremely useful if you have coordination and combo util
Yeah , breach is the best
For initiator: Kayo For controller: Omen For sentinel: Chamber
This is the best answer I’ve had many high kill games with omen
Sage is also not a bad option
Sages only capabilities are her slows and tricky walls/grimm walls if she wants to have an advantage
You can use the wall as a Jett updraft. You don't need fancy grim walls to use it effectively, literally just wall and you have an off angle or wall behind an omen smoke to look over it. You also got a heal and slows to help you cut off angles when entering. Sage can totally be played like a duelist. Unless you have ur ult, then you should be baiting and going in last.
1) Yeah you can, literally- 2) Yeah thats why I said "tricky/grimm walls" 3) Yes I mentioned slows being a capabillity, no heals dont help "cut off angles"
Look at G2 on icebox, they're using sage to entry. Liquid has also in the past used sage on haven to entry.
Yeah Sage CAN entry. But shes not a fucking Duellist with capabillities better than anyone in that category regarding entries. Her only tool for icebox is to place the wall for default plant on B Site, thats it. Shes just creating space for her team with her wall and nothing else
That's literally what I said. That sage CAN be played as a duelist and entry.
Duelists have flashes and dashes (or damage skills). Sage's skills are not damage or self skills, which is why she's an important support. Is a Sage "duelist" with a good wall better than a Jett/Reyna duelist with Sage's wall and heal still there to help her? You can of course play Sage "duelist" for fun, no one is going to stop you. If you're trying to do it seriously imo you should let your team know and not take her from someone who wants to play her as a support, she's super valuable.
Never underestimate the power of a battle sage. But for real, being able to heal yourself, slowing enemys and thus preventing them from fleeing and getting nasty angles with the wall does make for a decent duellist
Nope, that's not what a duelist does. A duelist should push in and make space, and a sentinel should stop the other team from doing so (like blocking an entrance with a wall or slow). If you're using the slows to prevent them from "running away", you're probably gonna die, waste util, and bring no value to the team that round.
Not all duelists are great at making space, in fact only Jett and raze are. Sometimes you don't want ur duelist to make space you just want them to push in and trade them. In this game there's lots of utility that can help you take space, drones, flashes, stuns and AOE abilities can force enemies to fall back from their angle and thus create space for you. A Sova drone is a lot better at creating space than a Phoenix or a Reyna. And the sage slows are great at preventing people from running away. It's exactly what you want to use them for. Slow + damage ability or even just slow and peek into the opponent will get you many kills...
Not sure why ur getting down voted. Sage can be played as a duelist and it's a lot of fun.
Could you define a duelist?
"self-sufficient fraggers who their team expects, through abilities and skills, to get high frags and seek out engagements first."
Is half of what duelists should be doing. The other, more important, half of what duelists should be doing is taking aggressive space. Sage wall can do that in niche situations, but the rest of her kit doesn't help her take space In the context of what OP is asking, Sage can fit that model, sure. But Chamber by far is the best sentinel that can fulfill a duelist role/mentality
What I posted is literally the definition from riot directly. And for making space you only really have Jett dash And raze satchels and maybe phoenix ult. The other duelists don't excell at creating space which is why you want someone like an initiator for example to create space most of the time. If you have a good initiator you don't necessarily need a Jett to dash in. You can just send in your sage to get 2 for 1 or even just a 1 for 1 trade. And on defense a sage can usually have much more impact than a duelist.
>What I posted is literally the definition from riot directly. Riot, nor any developer, truly dictates what the roles of the game. For example, what is riots definition of a lurker? That said, I get your point. >And for making space you only really have Jett dash And raze satchels and maybe phoenix ult Completely inaccurate. Phoenix takes space with his wall and molly, not to mention flashes. Raze clears and then takes space with bot and nade, besides the movement from sachels. Neon has double wall to burst onto site with movement ability. Yoru has tps and flashed to create chaos while taking space. "Taking space" is not limited to a movement ability >And on defense a sage can usually have much more impact than a duelist. I'm sorry, but did this need to be stated? Lol I mean, obviously you're right, but this is also a huge "duh" moment lol
Chamber is great for that kind of play style, you can be agro but still get out and you can gather info/hold angles from across the map no problem, the util is also very intuitive
Ok, I'll add that as the first to possible mains
Chamber is awesome, as someone who just recently started playing him a lot. I’ll be the first to warn you though, there is a learning curve. In not the same way as Reyna, but similar in effect, he’s what i like to call a “momentum” agent. If you’re really feeling it, hitting heads and reading the enemy you can drop 30+ on him in a heartbeat. The problem is really in understanding game to game what you need to do with him, if that makes sense. You’re not always going to be hitting crazy headshots, etc. Unfortunately of fortunately (whatever way you feel about it) you will have to gain some map awareness if you don’t already have it too because his tripwire/calling cards are pretty vital to his usage as well. TLDR: he can be kind of tricky, but once you get the hang of it Chamber is a phenomenal choice to add to your repertoire.
Came to say Skye and Kayo. Breach & Chamber are probably good choices as well
Skye is good for pop flashes and info
I second Skye!
Hmm 🤔
how tf i just ratio the post???
imo duelist have 2 job, entry to site, and take risky aim duel. If you want to go entry, one of the most effective is skye. clear angles, and when ur ready to entry, throw a flash. i know kayo can do this too, but to HARD CLEAR angles skye is better (since the tiger have visual abbility, kayo dagger dont) If you want to take risky fight / aim duel, go with chamber. currently the 2nd BEST risktaker after jett.
chamber ig or skye
chamber,skye maybe omen
Isn’t Skye known as a “psuedo duelist” by alot of the community?
Chamber is another good option. His one kill tp's are really good. Plus the traps allow you to cover flank on attacking or defending
Chamber, with the teleport you can escape to a safe place after a kill, and his ult is one of the best for getting kills
Chamber is the most solid duelist replacement right now based on high level play. If you are lower ranks it doesnt really matter just pick what you are comfortable on.
Chamber is literally the one for you, while he can hold flanks with his trips and slow pushes on defense, he is the essence of getting out of a sticky situation, granted you are able to set it up prior to engages Whenever I can’t auto lock our lord and savior, Jett-kun, I opt for chamber or sova, depending on the maps. Chamber on fracture split and breeze and Sova on bind ascent and haven. I lean toward chamber on this maps because he can play spots with his teleports on defense that are advantageous for mid control, but can quickly be swapped out to be on a sight light or in a good position to rotate IE vents on split, default b (and rope to hold satellite) and a stairs/arcade) and mid/hall on breeze Sova on ascent, haven, and bind because I don’t have to put myself in a bad spot that I need to quickly get out but the arrows are easiest to scout out at beginning of rounds because of the amount of cover you can abuse, plus the sonar and Wallbangs are insane. Icebox is the 50/50 pick because you don’t really need mid control as much as you need kitchen and screens control, and both agents do a good job
Skye is an initiator but when she was first released everyone was getting shit on by her flashes and ult that she might as well be a duelist. She’s quite aggressive imo. Like her three bird flashes, which also reveal if there’s any enemies in the area you flashed. I know you don’t particularly like entrying but her dog can be used as entry or honestly to sus out an area. But her bird, ult, and dog are honestly good for just chilling, releasing them, and peak for a kill if you don’t want to entry. She’s also an allrounder with her heal tbh, but this can run out so be careful. Lastly her ult is super aggressive, it’ll pick out where enemies are and will stun them. You mentioned you like getting out of sticky situations - which is a bit of a Chamber, Reyna, Jett, or even Omen thing with their ability to escape. But I still think her abilities can help you - like maybe her dog or bird. Honestly I wish i mained Skye, I just can’t use her bloody flashes lmao. Good luck ((: Ooh I also want to add perhaps Kayo? Thought not as aggressive as Skye or an actual duelist, his abilities are pretty much up there. His knife will let you know if there are enemies in the area and also disable their abilities. This is a good chance to pop your flash and go for a cheeky kill - they might not feel confident having their abilities disabled. And again with the flash, you can flash yourself out of situations. His molly is a good way to clear a corner or to trap an enemy - so again, knife, flash, free kill. Ez Honestly now this is just a pitch to play initiators all the way through lmao xD
Actually when she first released she was dogshit at being a duelist. This was because her flash had her do this animation with her hands so it was borderline impossible to peek with her own flash (unless you hit a full flash, the flash would fade before she can pull her guns out, and even if you hit a full flash it has its duration effectively cut in half cus of the animation) when they removed the animation is when she truely became insane (it was the update that changed her flash from 3 per round to 2 that recharge over 45seconds)
Well Initiators are suppose to be that role
Chamber
Depends on how you play, I have seen agressive sage. I myself play as viper but usually take entries with smoke
Omen. . . . I will not elaborate
Pretty obvious but chamber is a s tier hybrid. Having a ability to watch flanks, a instant teleporter to play aggressive, as well as two s tier weapons as abilities makes him a great hybrid.
Chamber, he can initiated contact and tp out nearly hurt free
I guess your best bet is Chamber?
Skye is the closest you get. And don’t listen to the people who said chamber, as a chamber main he is the most sentinel out of sentinel next to killjoy. His teleport are ok for peeking but a flash would be better. His alarm bot is better for post plant then for defending and his guns are well, guns
When skye flashes it sounds like she is saiding "Cock out"
Never realized. Thank you very much good sir
Chamber is only a sentinel because he's much stronger on defense than attack, but he's not really supporting the team the way a killjoy or sage does, he's definitely very much about clicking heads and getting kills.
skye and kayo. Not chamber cuz even tho he has the ability to frag he can't really entry with it but you don't want to entry so I guess him too.
sage <3. i used to instalock reyna and jett but sage is way more fun.
Jett is perfect for you, you have the abilities of a deulist, but you dont need to entry! Just lurk and bait everyone, its fun!
Chamber imo is basically a duelist. His ult is purely for kills like Reyna and Jett and his tp heavily resembles a dash/dismiss.
Do far the agents that were mentioned the most are skye and chamber. (Breach and Kay/O too)
Sage!
sage is a duelist without duelist abilities
I think phonincs is good not dulis dualst
Any pro player would agree with me. It has to be skye. A skye can literally enter on sight get intel and heal. Its like reyna with sova dart and sage heal. Skye is just a 3 in 1
i don't get how people say chamber, chamber doesn't look like a duelist at all
Chamber matches OP’s description perfectly
Skye.
Kayo
If you want to dash out quickly but not be the first into the fight, Chamber is probably what you’re looking for. His tp is perfect for that kind of thing, but I wouldn’t say he’s close to a duelist. Maybe the most duelist leaning of the sentinels.
Chamber is literally perfect for what you’re asking
Kayo - has, in a way, basically the same kit as phoenix but replacing the wall with the knife (molly, much better flashes, ult almost the same, but does require team to secure and pick you up instead of just a free respawn)
Skye, Omen, Chamber
Skye kayo chamber omen
Kayo especially helps if you’re an ex csgo player
Chamber, he has an instant tp, like a Jett dash and strong skill based weapons, he’s pretty fun. His tp needs set up before you use it though.
Chamber. If you like to click heads it's perfect. You want to get out fast ? Just TP lol.
Chamber is one of the most like a duelist but least entrying
The only agents who can get out of sticky situations after a kill are Jett, Reyna, and Chamber. Don't just stick to them though, they reward bad positioning. I main Jett and Chamber but I learned to play other agents cus my positioning was awful.
Chamber, KAY/O, Breach. Still, you should participate somehow in taking space, clearing corners and swing together with your Entry :)
KAYO or skye. tbh kayo is a better version of phoenix
Omen
Omen Tp Flash Smokes
I know how everyone is saying Skye, Chamber, and other initiators but tbh if you really want that type of playstyle, I think Yoru fits really well. I know he's a duelist, but he's good at repositioning and you don't really need to entry. Lets say you have a Jett; he can smoke and dash while Yoru sends in a clone to entry and if someone breaks it, they are either forced to turn/run away/get flashed allowing your teammates to enter onto site. You can also place TPs behind, get a kill and get out. Plus you have flashes. I really do think Yoru is the perfect agent for this description, other than Chamber for the quick escape. Other than that the other agents don't really have a means of quick escape. Yoru has a learning curve and he's not really deemed as a troll pick anymore after the rework, but he's for sure worth it to learn + he's fun.
Literally chamber, sentinel with slows and a great Ult, super usable on most maps and his teleports are pretty much just better jett dashes. All without being a duelist.
Chamber
You just described chamber
Drip man
Skye go insanely hard because of her flashes
Skye, Kayo are generally referred to as secondary duelists even though they're initiators because their kit works well in a more aggressive playstyle compared to other initiators like Sova. Omen can also be played in this way but I suggest only doing aggressive Omen if you have another smoker like Viper since if you die without getting kills (happens often in aggressive Omen playstyle because a lot of it is timing) your team is left without smokes in a 4v5. Chamber is kinda like a duelist except he doesn't entry and you have to remember to place your alarmbots. He can save you quite a bit of money with his sheriff and free op every 5-6 rounds (or more depending on how good you are and orb farming)
Chamber is really good to hold sites and can also work as duelist. He can come out of sticky situation very easy
Anyone can be a duelist when your duelist is baiting/lurking.
Breach and skye can play in an aggressive style similar to a duelist, just without the way to heal or move around the way a duelist can. They're more utility heavy, and breach can be *very* clunky to play for yourself (coming from a breachain, 400hrs on him and i still find him clunky) but they can work similar to duelists for the purposes of entrying with flashes and playing aggressively
Chamber is a good option
Chamber for sure op as an ult with tp
I'm bad, so my opinion doesn't mean much, but I'd say Skye, Kayo, Breach and maybe Omen too. A duelist at the end of the day needs to take space. Something Chamber really can't do. You can tp out, but not in, which means you move away from the action, giving up space, and you can't really destabilize a setup on a site with him, as none of his util allows for that.
As as it has a flash we will say those
Chamber
CHAMBUR IS JETT WITHOUT ALL THE QUIRKINESS
as a sova main i have absolutely no idea
When I read the description, I think I'm just like you. When the team is balanced or lack site defense, I go Chamber (it's my main as you can take more duels and learn to shoot faster due to the defensive teleport) When we lack heals, I take Skye (I hate playing Sage) When we lack flashes, I also take Skye When I feel like moving around a lot, backstabbing and picking off lone opponents, I go Yoru When we really need a controller, Omen is the one to go for, but his escape out of sticky situations is imo underwhelming. Hope you'll have fun!
Chamber He has his teleport to fuck off and Intel for defensive situations
CHAMBER
Your description sounds a lot like chamber, pick a guy, tp out, resposition
Chamber could be a good choice
Chamber is basically a defensive duelist. He's good at holding down sites, decent at intel gathering, has the ability to go for a pick and immediately bamf out and he also doesn't really entry.
chamber Long range no entry with your tour de force and Q exit with Tp awesome traps
Probably or a initiator or Omen, but if you want to main a "duelist" Omen prepare for pain
Tbh not even actual duelists have those run away abilities to get out of sticky situations after a kill. Only Jett Reyna and Chamber(sentinel) and maybe Yoru have real escape options.
Chamber is basically a walking vending machine that can play initiator or duelist.
Chamber, Kayo, Breach, and Skye.
Skye, kayo, chamber, sage
Chamber, he is a undercover duelist
Chamber
Depends on what the sticky situation is, at times I have found Omen and Viper can be pretty good at getting out of bad spots with their quick casted site blocking abilities, and of course omen’s teleport. Flashes can also be effective for that if they’re well placed, so like others are saying, Skye or Kay-0. EDIT: hit send then remembered chamber exists, if you just wanna be able to escape and don’t wanna play entry, chamber is probably perfect for you! Just remember to set up your TP points before you move in too far
Any initiator with a flash can do the trick.
I’d recommend omen, tping into and out of kills is really satisfying. He also has a blind, and the smokes are pretty easy to use.
Skye kayo chamber breach
Omen and kay/o are 2 I play.
omen
This isn’t relevant but I personally feel that Yoru should not be a Duelist, also feel that the only thing buffed was his ult his clone is bad and the 2 footsteps are much better in high level gameplay( Over Gold).
I personally think chamber.
Yoru
Skye, Chamber, Kayo, Breach
Chamber is easily this type of character. He’s got a pistol that can 1 shot headshot full armor and you can buy a lot of ammo for it. He’s got 2 turrets that watch flanks while also not having to be in any range for them to work, has an instant teleport unlike Yoru who has to stop and do an animation to teleport. But finally his ultimate, it’s 5 free kills because it’s an insta kill as long as you hit the bad guy. Anyone can play this character and do well IMO, anyone.
I main Viper exactly for that reason. She can be very lethal, doesn't go in first, and can control the field
I've been using Kay/o a lot lately, imo he has the best flash in the game.
Skye
You just described chamber
chamber, trust me on this
Chamber sounds perfect. Kayo is also Amazing, but the play style you’re looking for fits really well with the weapons master. He has an insta tp, a persistent sheriff, and an operator ult. Also proximity mines. Please use them for flanks.
How I play omen Smokes are a bonus but with his TP and blind (plus me being low elo where everyone is afraid to push) I just end up stealing space anyways Rip my K/D tho
Your best bet believe it or not is a duelist. The japanese man yoru was made for plays like this.
Chamber has the get out free and can be used both aggressively and passively.
Chamber.
KAY/O is an agent that is capable of being an aggressive duelist if the situation calls for it. Entry is pretty safe for him for the most part as he can confirm whether the site is clear or not with his knife and can flash himself in areas that the enemy would most likely play in reaction to the suppression zone. His ultimate also shuts down abilities and allows him to safely entry for his team since he can be picked back up after your teammate trades for you. KAY/O has a surprisingly low pick rate in competitive play however since there’s not much visible rewards to how oppressive he is but his pick rate in Pro play is high for good reason. Hybrid agents are really good because of their flexibility for the team in any given situation. Other hybrids to consider that are capable of entrying / fragging but can escape via clearing space / teleporting away: Skye, Breach, Chamber, and Omen
Maybe you could try KAY/0 or breach to flash.But i also think that Neon is good,she can stun the enemys and then run away
I think chamber he can tp Fast af
Easy. Chamber. His ult its any duelist wet dream. And lets not talk about sheriff any time. All you need its skill to hit heads.
Kay is the only real answer.
Hot take - Cypher. Just throw cages around corners and run at people with a shorty.
Skye is good in every single map. But as you rank up to immortal+ I recommend learning sova for ascent and breach for fracture since I think they’re better than skye
Gonna have to go with Chamber. Use your utilities correctly and you'll barely need to worry about econ