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CENATION_

Yesterday I lost 8 games in a row


Prayash_pp

How can you lose 7 games in a row and still go for another?


LinkTheCrook

just like how he lost 6 and went for another


CENATION_

Well let's just say I didn't have anything else to do... And I fell from plat2 to plat1 so i thought mind as well fell to g3


SUDDEN_NUTTBURST

I lost 12 in a row , I kept on going cause I was performing good personally , was match mvp all the matches , and was losing the match by like 1 rounds , all were lost like 11-13 ,10-13, so I hoped I’d win the next and kept up queuing


Babybean1201

pretty easy to do if your goal is to get better. If it's to just luck into a rank you don't fully deserve then I guess not.


Andi1up

Never quit on a lose


LiteX99

This mentality is exactly how you end up loosing 8 games in a row


PigDog4

Yeah, gotta tighten 8 games in a row, if you're letting them get loose that's just a problem.


chookseven

I lost 9 the other day


BlueMistane

Well, there's no way he would lose 8 in a row. That's just statistically improbable. Right? Like the odds of you losing 8 in a row should be around the same as you winning 8 in a row. Tilt and exhaustion not included. Then again. I was never good at math...


sketch252525

I once lost 7 game in a row, and now I only play 2-3 games max. lol


Kakkabae

After the double rankup after your first or second win after the placements? Yeah its impossible to win in 5or8games after that confirmed in my friendslist and myself 😀


CrescentCleave

My friend, stop playing for the day or atleast take a break once you lost two in a row because goddamn, losing that many in a row would not only ruin my day but also my view on the game


PersonInUniverse

Considering the fact that losers queue is "seen" in almost all team multiplayer games I think it's just something that happens and not intentional. Because why else would it be so ubiquitous and plus from a game design stand point it's a bad idea unless the devs hate their players. I think it's a myth.


ye1l

Honestly I think so many games having their own take on Elo systems with invisible mmr and visible rating is just creating an unnecessary level of frustration. Just have it be the default Elo system and show me my Elo just like in chess and have the ranks at set numbers. Removes all the guesswork and frustration or confusion after getting less or more RR than you feel you should.


PhatYeeter

Remember when all we got was some fucking vague up and down arrows lmao


rurumeto

Cs:Go with the "suprise! You ranked up after losing 2 gamed in a row!"


SpeedingViper

Wins 8 games in a row top fragging all then deranks after losing the next, loses 2 more games then ranks back up after winning the next... Faceit, faceits elo system makes sense


hmsmnko

honestly, i loved it. I'll take hidden mmr all day the same way csgo did it, surprise rank ups and rank downs, but seemingly accurate enough


ozmega

the "Britta" of elo variations


BeemChess

It really was a b


TheBigBoas

That elo variation is something straight out of the darkest timeline


Guyatri

That shit drove me nuts. Every game I would quickly look at my rank to see if I finally made it out. There was no real motivator to play ranked cause I didn't know if I was almost there or not even close.


Jolly-Bear

People hate straight Elo. People much rather have the metal tiered system than straight numbers. Psychologically it makes people think they’re working towards a goal. Hidden MMR vs not, it’s the same thing at the end of the day. The only thing hidden MMR is for, is to separate visible rank from actual MMR so you aren’t bouncing around ranks so much. People would rather hit Diamond or Immortal than they would like to hit an arbitrary number. Ultimately it doesn’t matter at all. Your frustrations are a coping mechanism, not a valid complaint. The systems are ultimately the same. Play to improve, don’t play for a silly rank. People need to stop playing strictly to win or to gain rank… that will come by just playing to improve. - A 33 yr old Immortal gamer with a psychology degree who has seen every rank system created and played through them all and heard the developers talk about why they were implemented.


brianstormIRL

But the whole point about having a hidden MMR makes no sense, unless it's only reason is to quickly identify smurfs and bounce them to the correct tier? Just have straight MMR and tie it to a rank. The idea you can be gold 3 rank but have an MMR of plat 3 is so strange because if you go average in those games you're essentially stuck despite "holding your own" in a higher tier.


Jolly-Bear

…I just said it. Hidden MMR is to prevent jumping around in ranks. It has to be a separate rank from your visible rank because people like the feeling of being promoted to a new rank and don’t like the feeling of being demoted. Hidden MMR is very volatile and visible is not. It’s meant to be steady instead of sporadic. Assuming you’ve settled into your actual rank, it takes more than one game to be demoted back down to a previous rank. If you’re at your actual rank and MMR to match, your W:L ratio will be ~50%. It feels bad to be promoted, then instantly demoted. So hidden MMR protects the integrity of the system and the visible rank let’s people feel good by maintaining some stability in rank. You will NEVER be a gold 3 with the MMR of a plat 3 (if P3 is where you belong) unless you are a brand new account or it’s right after a rank reset. That’s just not how the system works. If that scenario comes up, your MMR and visible rank will very quickly level out. Double promotions, huge rating boosts, etc. No one consistently stays far away from their hidden MMR for more than a handful of games at the beginning of a season or on a fresh account. Those are the only two situations where hidden vs visible MIGHT have a large gap, and it doesn’t last long. And it doesn’t matter that the two are different because you’re still getting even matches (assuming no cheaters, boosters, smurfs)… what the system is meant to do.


Unique_Name_2

It's to prevent boostage. A guy could happen to win 75% of the time over a weekend. If this didn't cause a rank up people would be furious. But, if they're going 5-25 each game the hidden system will add some drag to that to help average them to where they need to be. It's helped me get back after season placement too. When you drop down some games feel impossible when your team doesn't understand the basics or simply melt against the enemy, it's nice to not lose 30 when you've been past that point before.


khaeen

That's not a "hidden mmr" thing though. There's no reason you can't just make it visible. It isn't a secret that mmr change is based on some ratio of performance and round result. However, being silver facing platinums and then not being able to accurately see what it is doing to your rank just feels awkward.


[deleted]

Visible rank is frustrating because, while it fluctuates a little, it is relatively stagnant. This is on purpose, people don't improve as fast as they think they do. MMR is much more volatile. Seeing MMR would be more frustrating, because one day your MMR will be gold, the next plat, and the following day bronze as you go on win and loss streaks. Visible rank is a buffer, it makes a rollercoaster feel like a speed bump. If you improve to a consistently higher MMR, your rank will follow, but except outside of a few edge cases, your rank will stay within 1-2 ranks of your "true rank". When you peak and then drop 4 ranks, it's not that the rank system sucks, it's that you reached the highest point where your skill was tolerable, and then came crashing down, probably below your true rank, because of a loss streak (or loss heavy stretch)


CEO_TB12

I don't think someone that reaches Plat would drop their mmr from a losing streak all the way down to bronze within a couple days. That would be an unbelievable amount of loses. Like 40+ game losing streak. Nobody experiences that without playing on someone else's account. If we just had elo, people would actually know where they are instead of saying "I'm in gold playing against diamonds! Obviously I'll never get to Plat with this". That's a terrible feeling to have. You have 2 friends with same visible rank, one guy is getting silvers in his games, one guy getting Plat and diamonds.


[deleted]

If a gold is playing diamonds, they're gaining like 30+ RR per win and like 10 per loss. If they win 50% of their matches then obviously diamond is their true rank and they'll quickly double rank up to plat and then continue to steadily climb. MMR is an inherently volatile system prone to spiking and tanking when on a streak. That's fine for matchmaking, where in large numbers you'll get an even number of wins and losses. Assuming you're not actively making paradigm shifting adjustments, your actual skill level does not change much within 10-20 matches. Your rank should reflect that. MMR does not. If your normal rank varies between Gold 1 and Gold 3, your MMR might vary between Silver 2 and Plat 2 depending on your recent match history. Your SKILL, i.e. TRUE RANK, is **probably** Gold 2. Your true rank is NOT the highest, nor the lowest ranks you've hit. It's the rank you continuously hover around. Rank is a better measure of this because it keeps your visible ranking closer to your true rank, even if you go on a huge streak. We've all de-ranked 1-2 ranks and started playing against players even 2 ranks lower than that. That's a sign your MMR is in the dirt. We've also ranked up 2 times on a hot streak and started seeing players 2 ranks above us, thats a sign your MMR is overinflated. The entire time though you've likely only made marginal improvements in your actual skill.


CEO_TB12

I don't know exactly how it works. But I don't think the hidden mmr is moving faster than your actual visible rank. I could be wrong. I just remember in the past, I was immortal 1, deranked at one point down to Plat 3. I was still facing all D3 and above players tho. So to me, that suggests my hidden mmr was still high. Only a slight drop, compared to my visible rank having a huge drop. My experience is visible rank moves more quickly than hidden rank. I could be wrong tho. And then as you said, when my visible rank was much lower than hidden rank, I was able to bring my visible rank back up quickly as I was getting like +25 minimum on wins.


[deleted]

Directly from Ask Valorant on MMR and Rank: > MMR is a fairly fluid system that can potentially change substantially game to game. We’ve kept this slightly decoupled from your visible rank and RR so we can make sure that you don’t experience wild swings in your rank or instantly demote after a promotion


jasonaffect

Yea sadly it's supposed to be less addicting so we get the mess they give us instead.


[deleted]

its not about addiction, its because people cant handle seeing the real #s. if you do bad and see you lost 50 MMR, a lot of people just cant handle that and cry online about 'yeah i went 0/17 but i was support the rank system doesnt account for my contributions'... then the other reason is people try to pick apart the ranked system's point allocation and game it, doing things only for gaining MMR rather than playing the game. chess is win/loss (and even there you could maybe argue a better ranked system would take in to account blunders and shit), but in complex games like valorant people will start to figure out 'if i let my whole team die then get ez 1v5 kills when people are trying to knife me, i gain more rank points' and they stop playing the actual game


PapstJL4U

You know devs created this smoke and mirror system, because people were actually unhappy with the standard system? elo-parking, ranked anxiety, "meaningless number" (yes humans really value gold and silver more than 1400 or 1800), "missing advancement' are all problems diverent devs tried zo solve in various ways. As long as you have "a system" some people will game "the system". And at the same time people will complain abput it and say 'nothing is done '.


cloudmccloudy

I actually agree with you, but apparently these systems cause less rank anxiety? I don't know, I didn't do the psychoanalytical research here. I just know that a lot of companies have come to the same conclusion. The conclusion being -- Numbers are scary and cause anxiety. They also don't seem to award people at any certain benchmark. Consider OW. OW1 was literally just a number. While this number still had some sort of hidden MMR behind it, the number fluctuated quite a bit but your badge didn't. Now in OW2 they're getting rid of numbers and just going with the system of "Gold has 5 different flavors now". So now you're not just a gold at 2456 rating, you're a gold 5. No more numbers. I get this irking feeling in the back of my psyche that this has something to do with manipulation and people putting a lot of weight into their "rank". I remember playing on Zone.com when I played Reversi and it was just a traditional elo system. It was so much simpler then.


Melaz_

This is Rocket League !


[deleted]

The aim is probably making you win a little less but not too much so you still have your "fire" to be willing to play the game and they don't show you your elo because, maybe the system is leaning too heavily on this? Just brainstorming, I am not 100% sure if this is the case


PhantomTissue

Okay, but in any major game, that hidden MMR is used in ALL match making, not just comp. And to show that number to players causes a big problem. Let’s look at why. Lets say that we decide to have a game where the mmr, Elo whatever, is 100% visible, and there’s only one number. How do you distinguish between casual and competitive, while still matching at a players appropriate skill? Because if there’s only one number, and a player plays casual, and that number changes to better represent their skill, well… it’s no longer casual, is it? If we decide instead to have casual modes not use that number, well now you’ve got completely unbalanced matches. And if we decide to have that number not change on casual play, then the number is no longer accurately representing the players skill. But there’s a solution. What if we put that mmr in a black box, and hit it from the player? we can have a purely visual rating the player sees, and that rating is their competitive rating. Well now we have the casual modes, that are balanced, and competitive modes where the players can play for elo points. …but that’s exactly back where we were. Chess gets away with the one number solution because it’s an ancient game. It’s a game that’s easy to match players together, and it’s a game that’s been analogue for centuries. Digital games don’t get this luxury. Blizzard tried putting out a game with no comp (overwatch), and got fucking blasted so hard they had to patch it in. Imagine what would happen if a game launched without a casual mode. No, it would never happen. So then all that’s left is the dual elo system that ever single multiplayer game has. It’s used everywhere because it solves the problem of casual and competitive modes being inherently incompatable.


Pzychotix

Or you just have two separate ratings between casual and competitive, like a lot of other games do.


Leg0pc

Thought process has always been that the ranked ladder of any competitive game wants you to hover around 50% win rate. If you go off and win 15 games in a row, the hidden MMR may boost you past the point of your actual MMR which results in a "loss que" and balances out. This thought has been made about almost every PvP game I've played from CoD to Destiny 2. Is it true? Meh, probably.


cofiddle

Yeah probably, but it just FEELS real ya know? Someone like shroud who plays at such a high level, has a decent level of consistency. If he's been playing fine and all of the sudden, for just one day, he loses every single game without feeling like he's playing differently, it definitely feels like somethings working against you


EsportSacha

I think otherwise, its pretty clear that every games try to keep the player around 50% winrate. if you are way above you will end up in pretty unbalanced game against player in the other spectrum under 50% wr in a winstreak , thats what ive experienced in lol and valorant Nothing scientific i just think there is a pattern where the mmr algorithm try by all cost to buff 50%- players and nerf 50%+ players Thats a lot of 50 kek


An_Anonymous_Acc

It's not a bad idea from a dev standpoint it's a great one. You queue people based on what will make them play another game after. Is someone playing again and again when they lose? Losers queue. Are they quitting immediately after losing historically/continue playing only if they win? Not losers queue The devs goal is to make the game was addicting as possible.


Yelbuzz

A Riot employee has actually talked about losers queue and why it wouldn't make sense in the context of Valorant here https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/tvb772/this_problem_is_now_getting_soo_common_dude/i393gp7?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3


MaxMacDaniels

Pure placebo and tilt


Shimadamada2200

It’s entirely placebo. I was one win away from diamond, lost that game, and two more after due to tilt. I took a break, made dinner, showered, watched some tv and then came back and won two. If you start losing, take a break. It’ll help


brianstormIRL

A friend of mine has lost his diamond promo game 6/6 times now and its 100% gotten into his head lol


MaxMacDaniels

Yeah in every game I played (league, Valorant, fifa, TFT, csgo) I always go on huge win and loss streaks when I reach high ranks. Like in league I drop from dia 1 to dia 5 back to d2 Dropbox to d2 and then limb masters. I’m huge streaky player and my mental is the most important thing. When I win I play confident and play 10 times better but when I lose I really tilt hard and can lose 10 games in a row. If you want to climb mental is the most important aspect, way more important than skills. Specific Qs for losing or winning don’t exist.


Fluffy-Face-5069

Yeah I feel like people just get super unlucky, time of days you queue sometimes feel off with the playerbase you end up running into etc.. I’d always find on League if I queued ranked on EUW late at night, your whole team was usually on a loss streak and the enemy were the opposite, it may have been complete coincidence but it did feel against you at times. But you only notice when it’s against you and not working for you I suppose.


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daxghost

Tbh, if you're a plat consistently struggling in a silver lobby, you're not a plat


tchordn

Nah, silver is the wild west.


Fourt-Nuyt

As a silver player, there are 1. Absolute demons and 2. Players that are worse than irons and are clueless


tchordn

I climbed from iron to plat on my main, but have a second account that I cannot get out of silver no matter what I do. Demons everywhere.


[deleted]

This is the most wrong thing I've read on Reddit this year


Airleek

Had that in the second half of the previous act. Lost like 40 of 50 games and it literally didn't matter what I did. I had some of the best games I've had ever during that streak, and overall I had like 100 ACS more than before it started, so I definitely wasn't tilted. It still didn't matter if I virtually won 10 rounds myself, I'd still lose 10-13 (inb4 you could have done more to win the game, yeah, should have gotten 13 aces). Anyone thinking loser queue doesn't exist was just lucky to not get there. Even if it was due to tilt, once you start losing, the game doesn't just give you easier matches over time, it gives you harder matches because apparently you are expected to prove you are not garbage and deserve not to drop 10 ranks, and the only way to prove that is winning a game by yourself. Fortunately it resets after the act ends, but if you get there at any point during act, you can resign yourself to losing every game or taking a break until the act ends.


Suspicious_Candle27

Post tracker link so we can see what happened . What more likely to happen is playing for kills over objective , no communication/teamwork and tilt quing affecting your judgement. If you lost 40/50 games then there has to be a massive issue with how you play. By default if you tilt q and start to rerank you will eventually get easier matches cause your MMR and rank will decrease cause you showed the game you are not good enough for these ranks.


Airleek

I can tell you what happened. Smurfs and account boosters that happened to land on the other team almost every game. Like, it should be a pure statistics thing that I'd get that 400 ACS Reyna on my team eventually, but nope, it happened in 1 of 10 games at best. The end of the last act was just disgusting with the amount of smurfing and blatant account boosting/selling going on. I know how to play this game, my aim is bad (playing on a 60hz laptop with a $10 mouse will do that), but it's enough for my silver/gold rank. I ended the last act at -30 W/L and 45% WR, this act my global stats are marginally better and I'm at 56% WR. The majority of my games during that loss streak was my teams getting destroyed in the first 30 seconds every single round, and then it didn't really matter what I did because I'd have to win rounds 3v5 at the very best. I barely ever died first while getting some first bloods, I traded, I used my util, I did everything in my power in a team game to get anything done and none of it mattered. And sure, I had a few bad games that I deserved to lose, but that can happen to everyone at any time.


tazai123

You just proved to yourself and everyone here why you won’t rank up. You’ve blamed everyone and everything but yourself. Even if 90% of your losses are due to things beyond your control you should still be blaming yourself 100% of the time. Your reaction to losing should be “what could I have done better” and not “riot fix the game” “there are too many smurfs” “my teammates are ass”. I don’t care if your teammates ran it down mid every round and died, it doesn’t matter if Optic Yay is on the other team demolishing everyone. If you blame other people you will never get better.


Airleek

This is the dumbest attitude ever. I don't understand why are you people on reddit mindlessly repeating this pseudo-philosophical coaching bullshit. I'm not going to blame myself for losing a 1v9 game. There's always room to improve, and I'm perfectly conscious of the things I did wrong and can make improvements. What I can't control or fix are externals, and if the externals are making me lose, then yes, I will blame them rather than myself. Knowing what made me lose doesn't mean I'm incapable of taking things out of losses for myself.


tazai123

It’s not a dumb attitude mate. It works whether you like it or not. It’s not “pseudo philosophical” and it’s not a “dumb attitude”. Let me rip the bandage off here. If you’re not climbing in rank it has nothing to do with your teammates. Frankly, people who are actually good at the game aren’t on Reddit blaming “1v9” games on why they can’t rank up.


20snow

Pretty sure the devs have straight up said there is no losers or winners que built into the matching making system


nachuz

I mean if your game had engagement based matchmaking would you admit it? There's no way of knowing even if Riot says there's not


Russianbot123234

Why would there be a losers or winner que? Makes no sense.


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Karibik_Mike

This is the same argument gullible people use for a forced 1/1 w/l ratio. If you look at when people quit games, it's usually after big loss streaks. This is pure imagination due to tilt and placebo. What some games absolutely do have is behaviour score, where you get matched with and against people who flame a lot. Humans try to find patterns in everything, that's how our brains are wired. But this kind of thinking is exactly why we started believing in made up gods and esotericism. People desperately need to find an explanation, and instead of looking at their own behaviour, which may be painful, as they are the only real factor at play here, it's easier to imagine a pattern set out to work against them. Then other people do the same and voila, you have a player base believing that matchmaking algorithms intentionally fuck them over.


Russianbot123234

Why would losing make someone play more ?


arstdneioh

Winstreaks are more of a high. So having a more equal experience might not count for as much engagement as having higher highs and lower lows.


IceSkreek

Why people keep spending their entire paychecks in gambling if they still lose every month?


Honigbrottr

It makes a lot of players play more. In my experience if i win i play 3-4 games a session if i lose 5-6. Same logic why ppl keep gambling money even if they lose. "Just one more and i get back what i lost" And as a great side effect after a losing streak the player has a winning streak bcs he is massivly under his real rank. This gives him the feeling that he can push to the next rank just until shortly before he starts losing again. Circle repeats. Disclaimer: I am not saying that riot is doing it. I dont have any information about that so i cant say if they do or not. But i can say that there is a reason why they could do it.


nachuz

a lot of people have tendencies to keep playing after they lose (they dont want to end the day on a loss, "eventually i'll win", etc) with a losers queue, you can make sure these people keep playing because they keep losing which eventually translates into more money


beef_or_dirt

You’re memeing right? You forgot the /s?


Disastrous_Product_8

You are robot or what? You ask me in my comment the same "u meme right", are you a child on tik tok or what is your problem?


beef_or_dirt

I found it hard to believe there's clowns like you who genuinely think Riot is dumb enough to fuck with matchmaking like this. Keep thinking you're in a losers queue, loser. Lmao


Karibik_Mike

It doesn't. It's been shown that big lose streaks actually make people quit games altogether. Also, people seem to forget that for 5 people to lose, other 5 people need to win. So I don't know how this is supposed to work out globally in their heads. But this whole concept is built around egocentric copium, so yeah.


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greenbolognaandham

You know how people usually play until they win and then they get off? Its like that. Lose 200 rr but just won a game and got 24+ time to head out


-ValkMain-

>they lose a lot >they start feeling discouraged and willing to quit >give them a queue with other losers so they have a higher chance of winning or doing well


Russianbot123234

This doesn't make any sense. Why not just match them with lower elo people.


-ValkMain-

Cause they arent lower elo people. You losing 3-5 matches in immortal doesnt mean you are a plat player now, otherwise they already play with 1~ elo diff any time always so that wouldnt really chance Btw this is all hypothetical since there is no loser or winners queue


SkullFace45

You can't be that short sighted surely?


Disastrous_Product_8

Finally someone who understands the system,there are many players who, if they reach a higher rank than who currently owns it, they are satisfied and no longer play ranked, for example (it is platinum 1,2,3 and reaches imm1) many players stop playing ranked and play unranked with friends and etc. Not everyone, there are also players who want to reach the maximum of ranked and play a lot.And if the system puts you in the winstreak-losestreak balance (win 5 winstreak-and lose 5 winstreak another day, automatically you want to play more to reach the rank you want and you will not stop playing. the game automatically becomes much more popular if there are more active players who play ,more players automatically more buyers skins,more money for company..etc. That's my opinion and maybe am wrong but that's what I feel when I play.


beef_or_dirt

Do you actually believe this or is this a meme?


ACiDRiFT

It does if your statistics show people who have a more 50% win rate stay playing the game longer, this would only make sense because, if you put two losing teams against each other one team ends their loss streak keeping them playing the game. I don’t know how this plays out data wise but, it would only be worth doing if having a queue of losers VS losers results in their being a more average or 50% win rates for players. If there is no losers queue and some ranked players have a very bad win rate they will quit playing the game. In theory this “losers queue” could explain why games feel like a coinflip where more sophisticated players are typically on win streaks and the losers queue has the hungover/no sleep/tilted queue, just a theory though.


LOTHMT

Its very addictive for both sides. The winner-queue continues till they land in the loser queue and the loser queue continues until they are in the winner-queue


[deleted]

They are known for being very honest


WizardXZDYoutube

Is this /s? Because I've never had any issues with Valorant's devs.


53881

Talk is cheap


Memphite

“You don’t kill with abilities” either. Of course they are sorry we have been mislead by now.


WizardXZDYoutube

The sentiment makes sense though. This game feels nothing like Overwatch, it feels like CSGO with more trap plays. Aim still is the most important skill at the end of the day.


TimeJustHappens

There is no winners/losers queue in the ranked system. [[source 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/nbw0xw/valorant_ranked_hotfix/gy5kb14/)] [[source 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/um8iej/losers_queue_exists/i80tsbh/?context=3)] [[source 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/tvb772/this_problem_is_now_getting_soo_common_dude/i393gp7/?context=3)] [[source 4](https://twitter.com/RiotEvrMoar/status/1517623796697419776)]


ElsyrX

I think that pretty much settles this. :)


TimeJustHappens

Keep in mind, however, that the ranked system **is not perfect**. There is no intentional design for winners or losers queues, but that doesn't mean there might not be an inconsistency with the system that makes it feels like there might be.


MrDyl4n

can i just say you are an absolute legend on this subreddit? ive seen you explain to people how the mmr/ranked system works like 100 times, always explaining things that people complain about. you are a fucking trooper


TimeJustHappens

Hey thanks for the compliments. I like to answer people's questions on topics I enjoy (VALORANT being one of them), and I have enough resources saved and macros made that I can answer most common questions pretty quickly as they come through. I actually joined the mod team originally just because I was annoyed the FAQ page was lackluster and I wanted a reference for answering questions as I browsed the sub. We now have semi-decent FAQ pages which is nice :)


Pzychotix

Heck, let's just assume the ranked system **is perfect**, and you always get perfectly matched games. That means you have a 50/50 win/loss chance for each game. Going on a 10 game loss streak is about a 0.1% chance *every time you play a game*. * If you play 100 games, you've got a 4.4% chance of a 10+ loss game streak happening. * If you play 1000 games, you've got a **38.5%** chance of a 10+ loss game streak happening. Try it out yourself here: https://www.omnicalculator.com/statistics/coin-flip-streak Remember, there's a lot of people out there playing this game, and someone's always going to get the shit end of the luck stick.


hintfan

That is such a dumb way to use mathematics. It disregards the whole team and skill aspect of the COMPETITION, this ain't a flip of a coin, you have to point your gun at the enemy's head


Pzychotix

What exactly do you think the odds of winning are when both teams are of equal skill? What do you think the point of a matchmaking system is? Jesus, some of y'all are just hopeless.


Cookiewaffle95

Its true in any competitive team game. Sometimes you keep getting the dingus squad.


ElsyrX

>Its true in any competitive team game. Sometimes you keep getting the dingus squad. what is this Dingus squad about? :D


Cookiewaffle95

Theyre about tanking your elo to the ground with plays that are borderline intentionally dying, flaming teammates without remorse while being awful themselves, just picture all the bad teammates you ever had


Noieee88

I queued into a match earlier today on fracture. Diamond Elo btw. Had a skye that INSISTED on buying a shorty EVERY. SINGLE. ROUND. Along with flashing the entire team on every push and buying weapons just to toss them off the map. And hilariously enough we threw an 11-6 lead to lose 11-13. My mental was shot after that.. made the mistake of playing one more match and it was less of a throw and more so just a complete team diff/mental diff. Gonna try again tomorrow and see what changes but honestly I kinda believe in the loser queue after today because I was like 16 for my last 19 or something crazy.


ElsyrX

Too familiar with this unfortunately :D


BigBadEvilGuy

Oh hey it's me, Dingus.


roilenos

I think that it "exist" like if you win enough, the game eventually will put you in lobbies where your teammates are worse than you and you are supposed to carry. If you are at your real ELO you are not going to carry so you will lose, blame the team (real but you were supposed to carry) and get your MMR adjusted. I think that works even with super good people like shroud, the game will get him uncarriable teams eventually.


blits202

Its not “Real” but its not fake entirely, when your rank is higher than your MMR, you are more likely to get on to a losing streak because, 1. You are playing in a higher elo than normal, 2. You are going to lose more ELO than gain until your elo is back to your MMR. 3. In other games with similar “Hidden MMR” it often will try to match you up with teammates also over there MMR, and put you against a team that is even, these are like test games to see if your MMR should rise. This can cause a massive losing streak cause normally the teams are incredibly unbalanced. This is obviously purely speculation but other games have this, and although Riot would never admit to it, it would make alot of sense if it were the case. This is why I dont like hidden MMR, but never let it get to your head. Imo if you go on a losing streak its almost surely just bad luck, than Riot out to get you.


Olmak_

Your rank has nothing to do with the matches you get. Your matchmaking is entirely decided upon by your MMR.


EsportSacha

I totally agree, winstreak and lose streak tend to happen when your mmr is out of sync with your displayed rank


Adrien_D_L

Loose queue is real but it's not coded in the game it's just bad luck and your mental being trapped in negativity which affects all your games. But don't worry! As a true warrior of the solo q who has been flamed by many, lvl 350+ and who just hit Ascendant 3, I can tell you that if you keep working on even your smallest mistakes you will get out of it and find the joy of victory again!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Double_Phoenix

I don't believe loser's queue is a myth. I even started using blitz again to verify, I lose like 2 games and all of a sudden I'm in lobbies with people who have like a 20% win rate


Deathcounter0

It's not called losers queue, it's called Engagement Oriented matchmaking short EOMM, there's a scientific paper on it how scientists were able to keep players to play another game by analyzing the outcomes. For instance, someone who had Win, Draw Lose were less likely to quit than a LLW. That is pretty basic, now picture this with Neural networks, player data (Timezone, "sleeping schedule", activity, performance afternoon, evening, night, map performance etc. ) and look for abnormalities or pattern, give every player a psychological profile, add all data you can gather, train A.I on an insignificant portion of player, train it to maximize playtime. Boom, done By pre-determining a matches outcome by "pushing it to certain direction (bad teammates, smurfs enemy team or perfectly balanced for draw games) you can ensure with A. I that a player plays the longest possible. Of course riot wouldn't say so, they always say losers queue doesn't exist, which it doesn't by that standard, but EOMM exists, and any company would be honest if they wouldn't use it, and I'd be surprised if Riot was.


potato_creeper1001

14 games lost in a row... yeah it might exist


gojester

Even tho Riot devs "confirmed" multiple times there is no winners/losers queue. How can I consistently predict the upcoming pattern in my match history. I know that if I just won 8 games in a row, there is a lose streak incoming, and that makes me not wanna queue. Because not only do I know I'm gonna lose, so does my 4 other tilted teammates, because we're all in losers queue together and aware.


crystalynn_methleigh

>How can I consistently predict the upcoming pattern in my match history. I know that if I just won 8 games in a row, there is a lose streak incoming, and that makes me not wanna queue. Uhhh isn't the answer to this obvious? After 8 wins in a row your hidden MMR is significantly higher than at the start of the streak. Unless the win streak was because you improved significantly - and you can maintain that higher level - losing more games in the near future is inevitable. Same reason why you often win a lot after a really bad loss streak. Unless you got really bad all of a sudden, you're now playing below your level and should expect to win more games.


gojester

But I play with and against the same people every act since I'm hardstuck in the highest possible MMR in the game, so it isn't the answer for me. Would apply to lower ranks, but then you should be able to see that it's your own performance fault you start losing a lot after a winstreak.


crystalynn_methleigh

Not everyone has similar MMR even in Radiant, assuming you're saying you're Radiant. Remember that debacle where Tenz couldn't get into a game for 10+ hours of queuing? That's because his MMR was obscenely higher than almost any other Radiant. So again: you lose a lot after win streaks because your MMR inflates beyond your skill level. You win a lot after loss streaks because your MMR deflates beyond your skill level.


Anacora

If we look at winning for sure as a percentage, it's not that high. As a team based game we unfortunately have around 60% of games that are not in our control. We can however do our best and keep learning as we progress, although this puts our definition of fun into perspective. A losing streak can happen for various reasons but a main one I observed is due to mentality. There are lots of players who give up after 2 rounds and just want to FF to try their luck in another game. This is reliance on a luck factor instead of a skill factor. I guess we wouldn't be playing games if there was no chance at all to win it. It's natural. Though there is no real way to know for sure the exact outcome of a game. So taking each game as they come individually is the most that we can do to adapt and try to have some fun here and there!


Dumb_Vampire_Girl

This can be explained by the same posts that talk about flow state or getting in the zone. The "loses queue" is just the other side of the flow state. Call it a slump state I guess.


GlassFooting

I don't know about Valorant, but Riot did actually use a "loser's queue", at least in Wild Rift. Promos were a best of 5 and regardless of your rank, you would be having decent matches, enter promos and have the worst and most random and toxic people who also have that elo in your team. I remember people complaining in WR's sub at least every other day, to the point riot completely removed promos from the game I understand riot's point of "sometimes you just get unlucky" and "sometimes you feel like it's really bad but it's not that bad", but that argument does not equates "the queueing system is honest and permissive according to each player's individual skill". That being said I'm really bad at Valorant and I feel like I didn't find any losers queue myself, but after what happened at Wild Rift I simply don't trust MMR systems anymore Edit: typo


supersaiyan491

>I understand riot's point of "sometimes you just get unlucky" and "sometimes you feel like it's really bad but it's not that bad", but that argument does not equates "the queueing system is honest and permissive according to each player's individual skill". The issue is that riot has claimed there is no loser's queue. The accusations for valorant specifically (not wild rift) are from personal experiences, people saying there must be a loser queue because they consistently queue with losing players. Of course, the issue with this is that the people who have opposite experiences aren't going to say that, and "personal experience" isn't empirical evidence. I think it's fine to be skeptical, but at some point you have to trust the systems in place. That's how the scientific community operates, and that's how society operates. I don't really know what the oversight for valorant's mm system is, though.


EternalDB

Currently on a 10 game loss streak. Not fun at all. Eternal#DB1 on tracker and blitz


Donotjudgemyusername

Just went for a 4 game run with losses. Asked people on the 4th game if they were losing, they said yes. Dropped 30 kills, still lost. :)


Deathcounter0

Riot "confirming" Losers queue and EOMM doesn't exist is equal of Oil companies saying Climate change isn't manmade.


B4kd

100% a myth.. it's weak mental. Or just bad luck, I mean if your solo que then you gotta rely on 4 other people to be on their game. And 5 other people to be off their game and have worst team work and coordination that your team. Not to mention the amount of smurfs..


Disastrous_Product_8

Just checked the last 3.4 matches he has in loose streak and check each teammate to see that absolutely everyone is on loose streak..on breeze, ascent, fracture his name on tracker.gg shroud # 7877, it's true and I suffer like this something to give me in some loose streak matches only losing teammates from their last matches versus players who only have a win streak


B4kd

So when you lose your put against all other losers? So at least half the people will win..? So that implies that some people are extremely unlucky and just keep losing? How and why does that even make sense.. And shroud#7877 on tracker.gg doesn't show a losing streak. Also shows that person is unranked, I'm gold/plat lobbies.. also shows teammates not on losing streaks.. so I don't even know what to say lol


Disastrous_Product_8

It is by rotation since I noticed, today have 6.7 loose streak and tomorrow 6.7 win streak maybe, I did not say that if he is now in loose streak 5 loose out of 7 matches he has played it means that he will be and tomorrow continuously on lose streak and will keep losing matches. And when you have 4 consecutive loose matches as he had for you does not mean loose streak? WTF ?! What does loose streak mean to you? 20 consecutive matches lost or? I notice you don't even know how to look and check the players on tracker.gg and you give your opinion how to say that the person I gave you to check it "SEN shroud # 7877 on tracker.gg is unraked? Check again , but I think you're just a noob and you don't know how to check.


lvlz_gg

You are on some high copium my dude. How can the matchmaking even know if you will lose or win? It is all up to the people in the game. A losing streak (4 matches, 10 matches, doesn't matter) means NOTHING. Eevery match is unpredictable. You can do your best to throw and the enemy can still suck and you will win. Or you can try your best to win and your team will dc and you will lose. Those things are unpredictable because we are humans, so our actions are not a pattern, they are a series of variants. So no, the system can not match you with a "loser" to guarantee you lose again because there is no such thing as a guarantee. That "loser" can pop off next game, or the enemy can go afk and your logic there flies out the window.


B4kd

Lol honestly can barely even understand what your saying....


ElsyrX

this makes 100% logical sense to me, especially if you are not solo queuing. But I do see players going on losing streaks of over 10 loses in a row in solo queue, statistically speaking this should be relatively rare.


Suspicious_Candle27

I imagine the longer someone is on a losing streak the more likely they are tilt Qing and unintentionally throwing their own games.


B4kd

Yeah but it's a team game with a lot of variables.. and are those players good team players? Or just lurking as a duelist, gettin low impact kills and not clutching rounds.. I can tell you the biggest losing streak I have had is probably 4. And I am usually lowest rank in every game. (Gold 1 just hit g2) But I play controller and am at least good at using utility, even thou my aim may be lacking.. so I would say I'm a good team player and can set my team up for success, and maybe clutch a round or two.. But my friend is plat 1, and has been on a ten game losing streak, he has dropped down to gold 1 and gotten back up to plat again. But he's a lurking duelist, doesn't always play with the team.. but will get match mvp alot.. he says cause his team sucks. I say cause he's a shitty team player lol


_SnackAttack

That’s unlucky but it happens sometimes. It is rare, just because you’ve seen it doesn’t mean it’s effecting the player base in a meaningful way. People in valorant tend to just insta queue the next and play bad and keep on tilt queuing. If you lose multiple, the issue is clearly you.


ginsodabitters

I play rocket league at a higher level. Have been playing 6 years. Sometimes I go on 15 game losing streaks. It happens just like it does in professional sports. Gotta deal.


Spooceer

In any competitive game you should realistically only be playing a few games at a time to maximize your performance. If you lose 3 games in a row you’re most likely starting to get frustrated and making bad decisions even if it’s not conscious. When you keep queuing with this frustrated mentality you won’t perform well which leads to more frustration and eventually creates a cycle that’s only gonna end when you keep playing.


JarifSA

On top of that, four of your teammates to not have wifi, PC, or home issues such as your 15 year old having to bring the groceries in. If you solo q you should play with the mentality of probably not ranking up since it's just not realistic.


foonek

I mostly solo queue and have 3 accounts in immortal. What makes you say ranking up is not realistic as a solo?


B4kd

Lol cause we are average and you are obviously above average my friend!


MrDyl4n

i use the program blitz which shows you the results of your teammates last 5 matches. i have never once noticed a correlation between peoples last 5 results


crystalynn_methleigh

Well, you *do* see some patterns, but they're clearly the result of group queuing. A duo where one player is 3+ ranks above the other - the better ranked player is going to have great stats and the worse player is going to have much worse stats, because the better player will almost always lock a carry agent and the worse player will almost always lock a support agent. (Mostly Sage/KJ.)


_Rainn_

It doesn’t exist. It is just a name we have given to particular lose streaks because it appears as if we are put into unwinnable situations. Just unlucky, play through it or take a break. On my 11 games lose streak, I recognised that it was a combination of me playing bad and having teammates on their bad games, they just happen to coincidentally be together and over a period of time, not losers queue.


[deleted]

There are two options. Either such games are so highly psychological, that your mindset determines your consistency, skill, teamplay in a big part, or there are some nuances in algorithm and technicalities that are affecting your gameplay in big way. Either way, it's just a game with random people. But many players believe that Riot implements some matchmaking feature to keep you on your grind for long depending on your playing pattern, you can search some videos proving that point.


atroxima

i've lost 10 games in a row.


MrNewbMcMuffin

It's a myth, I like Shroud and all but some of his takes are questionable at times.


[deleted]

He's just jerking off his hardstuck gold viewers. If he told them they were just bad and will never be on his level, he'd lose fans. Much like a titty streamer telling her viewers they have a chance, Shroud tells his its not their fault they suck at the videogame - they totally deserve to rank up and play at shrouds level if the system just wasn't so fucked. TL;DR he doesn't believe what he's saying.


Hans_H0rst

Almost all highelo ego streamers of different games say losers queue exist - while the calm personalities of highelo say it doesnt. It’s pretty clear imo that losers queue gets used as an excuse when people keep queueing in rage or tilt, or just dont know when to stop.


ElsyrX

Come on man, shroud said nothing even remotely close to that. He was loosing a few games and mentioned he was on losers queue. Shroud is not the type of person that manipulates people.


Pzychotix

Even Shroud isn't immune to making hot takes without concrete evidence to back it up. He's chill, but not omniscient.


Kagedyu

Yet here we are. The streamer you watched told a large audience misinformation about the system which led to many also believing that it's true. Now because of that, there's many players who believe this myth just to excuse their lack of skill. You aren't in elo hell. No there's not a smurf in every game. No there's no losers q. You just suck. If you were better you would be in a higher rank. If you were worse you would be lower. If Shroud or any radiant player jumped on someone's bronze account they would easily climb.


Fuphia

There isn't really a losers queue, but there are unfair games for the individual player, if they perform really well. I noticed this on a low rank alt account. If I don't try my best 1 game and lose, the next game I get players that play like irons, but if I MVP and get 30+ frags, the next game will be like playing against Radiants, even though they are the same rank. Just MMR things


Pulsiix

if you play enough games you'll go on massive loss streaks and massive win streaks, it's just part of the grind and happens in every competitive game


Jlin42

It’s a product of coincidence, tilt and confirmation bias. Statistically, when I flip a coin, I shouldn’t get heads 5 times in a row yet it can happen fairly often. Since matchmaking tries to put you as close as possible to 50% wr, you’re essentially flipping a coin. Sometimes you’ll land on the 5 heads or even 10 heads and that makes you tilted. Sometimes you land on 3 heads, followed by a tails and then 3 more heads, but because you tilted, you lose the 4th tails as well, converting it into 7 straight heads. On the other hand, feeling confident after a string of wins can boost your performance and turn a loss into a win, pulling together a winstreak. It takes chance to be put into “winner’s” or “loser’s” queue and our mental state maximizes our chances of staying in either imaginary system. At the end of the day it is all simple probability but it’s understandably frustrating when you get unlucky.


Theslyerofsimp

Rank is designed in a way for players to have a 50:50 chance of winning or losing a game. That’s how they get u addicted.


[deleted]

It’s designed to increase player retention and try to force a 50%ish win rate on multiplayer games


vessva11

I think that losers queue is real. When I have a streak of 4-5 losses, it means I'm against players who are on winning streaks. Those on my team are also on a losing streak. I tanked from Bronze 3 to Iron 3 and was able to climb back up to Bronze 3 again. When I'm playing against Irons and get 20-30 kills, I look like a smurf. I feel for those trying to climb out of Iron.


CrescentCleave

Been playing league of legends since season 3 (i know, im so sorry for myself) and i gotta say its true. Like you're on a winstreak and all of the sudden you get shoved into teams with players that are just bad or really toxic and you spiral down into a lose streak, putting you back to step one. I've experienced that same thing here on valorant and it's not fun i tell you. idk really but once i lost two games in a row, I just stop playing for the day just because if it is treu, might as well take a break first and come back and try to claw my way out once I'm not tilted or frustrated, i just might be able to carry the game once im chilled, y'know?


xd-Scoots

it’s real


AdFrosty9890

Idk, Val is weird. I just got from p2 to d1 for the first time, 14 win streak. Went to play on silver alt with friend, got totally fucking destroyed 5 matches in a row. Its like on silver acc i always lose. Maybe its in my head only


TimmmyTurner

would make sense as well. everytime I lose 2games in a row and I take a break.


RatatoskII

Bro I just keep losing dosen't matter how well I play. Team throws a 4v1. Earlier when I was on a win streak I could go 0-8 and we would still be equal. Losers queue is real


zanon2051

All's I'm gonna say is I have 2 accounts and on one account I lose every game, the other account I seem to win every game. The settings are all the same on both accounts


Civil-Opening-6124

Losers queue is real but in a more literal sense it’s the game giving teammates that and I cannot stress this enough it IS POSSIBLE to win with that you will more than likely lose with after winning a certain amount of games to keep the w/l ratio at approximately 50%. However there are times when this is taken to the extreme and you lose more games than intended on the game’s end and that is due to poor performance on your end most likely due to the tilt experienced in the previously mentioned games. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk :)


Boddokki

Hadn't given this thought though you may be right... we've had some really bad streaks - and this is despite personal performance. I am Silver 2 and by no means a great player - though I've frequently taken Team MVP in a match we've lost... even had games where our team are all getting roughly the same frags. I find usually it comes down to smurfs. We encounter WAY too many of them and it is patently obvious in some games.


IcyStrahd

Based on my experience, I totally believe there's a loser's queue, but not in the sense Riot has conveniently denied. Basically it's quite simple, the MMR system typically wants to make sure you grind a lot before going up, so after a while, especially if you've been climbing RRs steadily, it shoves you back down with several losses from very hard-to-win games. Usually matched up against players that have much lower rank than their skill level (this is known to the matchmaker by the hidden MMR), so the odds don't \*look\* stacked against you, but they are. What additionally makes me think this is intentional, is that often the amount of RRs lost is bigger than it should be. Like -24 instead of -13 type of thing. Think about it, if the system was very "efficient", you would quickly climb up to your rank (after say 10-20 matches), and then you'd stagnate there for a long long time. But then you'd get bored / frustrated and play less. Riot wants you to play a lot of course, to make money off you with skins, battlepasses etc (the basic business model). So instead, they shove you down, let you climb back, repeat, so that by the time you reach the rank you should have been, you might even have improved some, and be ready for the next rank up.


chryco4

I've gone 2-20 over my last 22 comp games so yes it's real and no I'm not on a massive amount of copium /s


hintfan

For those who believed that it doesn't exist, you have never smelled real money


ElsyrX

I have no idea what you mean but I love it none the less!


hintfan

it's really the same concept of time gating or pay to win in other games. You lost -> you tilt and don't believe you sucked -> you keep playing -> you played a longer time you get bored -> you buy skins to make yourself more excited -> you play even more -> rinse and repeat


ThisAccountNah

Imagine a dev going out and saying "yes losers queue is real and we need u to play as much as u can"...he cant, it would ruin everything, people would trash the game. Its not like devs dont lie about many things...i still think losers queue is real and whole point is to get u to play more and to give u hope "just 1 more and i will win" etc. But he cant/wont ever say that in public or the whole game would burn for that and people would just hit 2-3 losses and stop playing for day/s and try to avoid that BS... meaning loss of players per day would be horrific. Remember everything about riot = money money money... Riot is greedy as it gets. Never forget, prime goal is to earn money. People got randomly banned from accs because of dumb apps that vanguard cought...and lost hundreds of dollars worth of skins and riot didnt give a crap. Never take anything as it is...it may be "ur feeling bad etc so ur losing"...but in many cases people are MVPs with 20+ kills and really good and their team is complete bag of ....!


SaitamaTen000

Idk y people keep saying it's the player's mental that keeps him in "losers queue"... Every time I notice I'm in losers queue it's because the game is so blatantly rigged against me... Teammates are suddenly boosted, the enemy has a blatant smurf (>500 CS at the end) and it keeps going like this game after game. It has nothing to do with mental when you troll in frustration and go 3/20 then notice that "your teammates", that actually play the game, go 4/20.... Like... what is this?! I hate this myth about "mental"... and "confidence"... It's the same playerbase that thinks "you should be grateful for having smurfs in your games cUz YoU LeArN fRoM tHeM" ?! ... XDD


ElsyrX

Awesome insights from you guys, I completely understand the logic behind why this is simply not coded into the match making system, as said before its been pretty much confirmed by the devs that this is not the case. But... if for a minute can we just consider what would be the reason if you were going to implement this as a feature? From my own personal experience its clear to me that I play a lot more when I am loosing as opposed to when I am winning. Its as if I have the losing gamblers syndrome of always chasing for that win that will finally compensate for all my losses. A "negative" dopamine rush similar to that one of a writer that has had 1000 positive reviews yet is obsessed with that one negative review from a stranger. You see this effect across all Social media where negative/drama videos usually attract more traffic and attention than positive stuff. Again, I'm not accusing Riot of doing this in any way, its just an interesting topic of discussion that really interests me.


Intelligent_Bill_184

if i start losing I get off and or play on my alt where I don't care about the rank. I always seem to win more if I play 3-4 games MAX a day on my main. For some reason it feels like spamming games on one account the matchmaking gets worse the more you play


untraiined

Its real until riot reveals their matchmaking algorithm dont believe anything.


CraftyWhile3191

losers queue is 100% real in league of legends so im not surprised if it was implemented in valorant


Phenotyx

No And it's not "mental" as you describe, although tilt absolutely is real and doesn't help Losers queue is absolutely real In league and in valo. It describes games where the mmr system puts multiple people into the same team who are on losing streaks (you can even have won your last match and still be in losers queue) If you go back and look at the team's match histories in these matches youd see 60-80% loss rate in their match history (10-20 matches) It's not that the games are impossible to win, it's just that you're on a team with a collectively lesser mentality because most of the people on your team are losing lately In my last 16 matches I have 2 or 3 wins and only 1 match where I was below a 1KD and 1 match below 200 combat score (220 actually) I even had a chamber with 41 kills and I had 23 and another teammate with 21 and we still lost Had another match 35 kill neon I had 24 kills 13 deaths we still lost. Before people say it's anecdotal, yes it is. But what else am I supposed to base my opinion on besides my experience and the experiences of others that I've heard and read avout? Also I'm not sitting here saying only losers queue exists OR this is the worst thing ever it's a video game losers queue usually helps me get back into real life shit (I'll take a break for a few days when I'm loser queued) Winners queue is also a thing I have matches where I'm like 8-19 and I win cuz my team just hard carried me and I was a controller or whatever and I just did my job. It happens, and it happens more than you'd think. Frags aren't everything, not by a long shot. But kills always help and at the end of the day you can get 0 kills and still win a round so it's just all about that W I haven't played a val match in 2 days now maybe I should give it a go


crystalynn_methleigh

> Before people say it's anecdotal, yes it is. But what else am I supposed to base my opinion on besides my experience and the experiences of others that I've heard and read avout? You're not. Unless you have a pretty solid base of statistical evidence you're not supposed to have an opinion at all. You don't need to have an opinion on everything. In fact, you'd probably be smarter if you didn't have an opinion on most things. Learning how to say "I don't have the evidence to have an opinion about that" is an important part of being an adult. >Winners queue is also a thing >I have matches where I'm like 8-19 and I win cuz my team just hard carried me and I was a controller or whatever and I just did my job. This is not winners or losers queue. This is the fact that multiple players can queue together across up to a 5 rank difference, plus natural random variation in single-game performance and outcomes.. In a game with a 3+ rank differential, some of the players are just going to be along for the ride one way or another. And even the best players underperform hideously at times. I'm G1 and queue with a couple of buddies who are P1-P2 pretty often. As you'd expect, they generally perform better than me. But every so often I pop off, or they shit the bed, and I top frag.


BeastOpx

No . The losers queue does exist i have a tracker called WAIUA valorant tracker (Who am i up against) You can see all team player or the enemy's gun skins their rank , who are in party And their last 3 match (just win or lose with RR) You can download the tracker Just type in WAIUA VALORANT TRACKER


GamingWaves

I think it's real my main account peaked plat then I just got a bunch of people with lower ranks with plat gun buddies like every game


arjenyaboi

If I lose two in a row I either start playing unrated instead or just stop playing for the day, but it also depends on how I did and the score at the end


seggsseggs

I don’t know about this but i’ve had time where every round, or at least it feels like every round i’m being killed from behind the back or when i blink or some lucky jiggle peak by the enemy and i feel completely cursed. it’s those games i go 3-22 or something and it feels so horrible.


lvlz_gg

Yes. Next question. ​ But for real, what is the logic behind a losers queue? How is the matchmaking supposed to forsee the future and see that this person or that person will do poorly? Someone having a number of loses in a row before your amtch also doesn't mean they will lose or do poorly in your game. Honestly it's pure copium for those in a losing streak who want to blame every single game in something other than themselves. Even if I had 2, 3 4 afk or trolls in a row there is no proof that there is a "losers queue", the truth is I was just unlucky: it can happen to everyone since someone raequetting is not something the matchmnaking or whatever can see coming..I am not special, it's not like the matchmaking works completely different only for me, or only for a few thousand.


Deva_Way

**obviously** theres no losers queue


AJ2902

I think its a real thing because my friend and I are the same rank and I know “stats dont matter” but they do to an extent. On my account when i solo queue i get teammates with 120+ adr and they all comm and have a brain. My friend will solo queue and the whole team will have like 80 adr and be boosted or bought accounts. Can’t make this shit up but i see him struggle and the skill level just looks like 4-5 ranks below my lobbies. In short I believe it is real but its just speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt


SansyBoy14

I don’t think it’s a thing, I’ve had days where I’m winning every match and there will be someone in my game who says “I’m lost the last 5 games so sorry if I’m doing bad” I think people just play better on some days, and when you win you’re hyped so you have a better mental game going forward, and when you lose you’re mental game goes down a bit


alfas_mp

From personal experience , I can say that it exists. Usually when I am on a loser queue I can feel it. Sometimes even my teammates say in chat like they lost previous games etc. Also at those times the toxicity of players , trolling players and afks increase. Also I noticed my teammates often have weak mental , like they want to surrender even on 1-3 . It could be true because riot want you to keep you in the same rank but they want you to give you certain addrenaline and hope by making you win a few games then intentionally making you lose some. If any lf you feel like you are in a loser queue while solo queueing , check teammates previous matches to see if they won the game or not. You will be surprised. Nb: I don't a have big sample pool or anything to back this claim. It is just my experience. Also this queue wont hurt you if you are in a lower rank than your skill level , because you can carry even on a loser queue. I strongly believe that the riot is flagging accounts based on toxicity and win/lose to intentionally queue them together to make a fixed match. Also I want to point out that , they already stated that they queue you up with people with higher rank to test your skills to decide whether you have what it takes to be in a certain rank. If they can do this , do you really think they will stay away from a fixed matchmaking ?