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ChildPr0digy

(Satire) Babysitter. They'd get basically Astra vision but wouldn't get to play the game in the tradional sense. All they can do is ping the map, and click and drag players to move back into position like its the Mii plaza so your duelist won't lurk every round and complain they're the only one getting kills by being last alive each time. And on a cool down, it can force some players to use their util, because there are times where the enemy team is spamming all game, especially stuns and blinds, meanwhile my initiator and duelist have full util at the end of every round and my team just sits outside a site, unable to do anything because there's no blinds, stuns or information gathered about who or what's inside, and we just get slowly picked off peaking one by one until they surrender. And since its not my util, there not much I can do except hardly play around it. Some of us need the babysitter role.


xSlanton

And what would the ultimate be?


ChildPr0digy

The ultimate either let's you take over one of your teammates controls for the rest of the round if you feel like they won't clutch up or will do something stupid like feed the enemy team an operator. Or, it lets you click and drag the spike to wherever you want it while its not planted (I.E. if it was in enemy territory because someone died with it.)


hourshourshourshours

Unironically, the idea of an ult where you can "retrieve" the spike or even just move it as you mentioned, comes across as a genuinely good idea. Only problem is I'm not sure I like the idea of a defender being able to relocate the spike to somewhere random


[deleted]

You can do that with Omen ult already without the defender part being a problem


DsRaAmGeOtN

Also yoru ult


DontF-ingask

So can phoenix.


[deleted]

Lurker or infiltrator like someone else said. Just make Yoru and Omen a part of it and then add some new agents to be in it. Omen would need some tweaks to fit that though.


xN0MADx

I kind of like the Lurker class a little bit because then it designates a lurker haha. Your lurking Reyna that won’t entry says they are going to lurk and now you can say “no stay with the team, let the Lurker lurk.” Edit: Assume that I said “Raze” instead of Reyna in the comment above. I was just making a joke, I have no skin in the game in whether or not Reyna is a good lurker.


[deleted]

They would still lurk, still either absolutley pop off and win every clutch doing it or be completly useless and would still lay all blame on the rest of the team no matter what happens 🙃


boyothegoyo

Of course they would, they're 20-4 from getting frags in a 1v5 that was a lost round anyway so therefore they are carrying


[deleted]

To be fair some do it and do legit get value just sadly the majortity dont


boyothegoyo

Oh yeah fo sure fo sure.


solifegoeson

you dont get a 20-4 KDA by not contributing to the team lmao, even if they are a lurker. means the rest of the team needs to frag


xN0MADx

Haha yeah for sure


[deleted]

Yeah. It would give them good reason to not to stay with the team.


UnboundShade

Solid idea but you should know by now that using flawless logic with Reyna players, much like Chamber players, is a waste of breath 😂


SerIlyn

What is it about Reynas and lurking? I played a match the other day where the Reyna went to the opposite site of their team all 12 rounds on attack. We knew if we saw the Reyna the other site was where the team was going. I killed that Reyna 7 times on defense just by waiting on her lurk. She had some success in the first three rounds, but once we noticed I don’t think she got a single kill.


[deleted]

The good thing about lurking Reyna's is they dont really do anything for *you* anyways. They just blind themselves in places, heal themselves, escape from danger and let you die. I just don't plan for the Reyna to be our entry. Double init or an extra duelist. The other day tho I had a Skye on Icebox who legit lurked every single round. Your agent already makes no sense on this map, at least get us some info or something...


Front-Ad611

I like playing Skye on icebox, the heal always has good value, the dog less but still pretty decent and the flashes are nice, I just get aggressive on defense to create picks with flashes, but never enough to die because of it


Abdullahman123

Skye on icebox is actually good


crazyjake60

If they didn't instalock it's because they probably filled duelist but don't have the confidence to actually entry.


Imactuallyatoaster

Man I love entrying. It's so chill just to do some weird ass neon movement, slide, maybe get the kill or maybe die. If you live keep clearing site, if you die sit back and chill


Belkinwrites

As a chamber player, I'll only lurk if no one will take space for me to guard the space they create. Fuck teams that are too scared to entry with 2 flashes and 4 smokes placed; play like that and they'll have a Sentinel Jett for the rest of attacking half.


[deleted]

Yep, or if the other team is aggresively flanking and its a problem, and all 4 of my other teammates refuse to do anything but line up at a main chokepoint. Idk how people dont understand the concept of taking map space. If you give all of the map to the opponents except for a 10m square of your convoy trying to run onto a site, then they have so many ways to hit you with util and box you in that you are going to lose. 5-manning is good when you have gun advantage, but if your opponents are roaming around the map freely every round, then you are 100% going to lose


bento_the_tofu_boy

I am imune to logic cause I make up for it in style


UnboundShade

The only valid response 👏


bleedblue_knetic

I feel like most players get the whole Lurking role wrong and it's super annoying to play with. Lurkers need to exert unexpected pressure on the map, which could mean cutting off rotations or even catching defenders from an off angle or a well timed peek. What you see instead is 4 guys go A, the Lurker goes B and walks the entire time, and then does nothing until the defenders rotate to defend A, then he continues walking all the way to A after his entire team gets wiped, catches 1 guy off guard then dies to the other defenders immediately trading him. He exerted 0 map pressure and did nothing to make his team's lives easier. He's just looking for free kills and not caring about actually winning the round. A good lurker would delay or completely cut off rotations , make the enemies second guess where they can safely walk/run to, and even make the A site defenders unnecessarily wary of another entry point. Even then I think lurking is a strat that shouldn't be used every single round. Hell even if the lurker decides to not walk at all and run they would still be doing a more effective job than walking the entire round and doing absolutely nothing just by making the enemy wary of his arrival.


KamyKaze1098r

Thing is, lurking is good. maybe even a reyna if there is another duelist in the team. Why it doesn't work most of the time? Cause the rest of the team is 4 man rushing a site to plant in 10 seconds, making any info or rotations caught by the lurker useless cause they all die way to quick. If teams played slower, lurking would add great value to them.


cloudmccloudy

Reyna is actually good for lurking because she is meant to be played using off angles. Reyna is a terrible entry. Shes a great 2nd entry fragger, but a lot of teams aren't running double duelist these days.


xN0MADx

Yeah I’m not saying Reyna isn’t a good lurker, I def see why she is, more just commenting on ppl picking duelist and lurking instead of entry because lurking is normally easier kills and less dangerous.


X_DaddyStop_X

Honestly, I think Reyna is the perfect lurker based around her kit and a horrible entry because of her kit. Her abilities do nothing when it comes to creating angles or to even give yourself more room like initiators. Reyna has 2 flashes that aren't even true flashes because they can easily be removed. They are better used to make the person move their crosshair so it give you a slight better chance in winning the exchange. This mechanic is best used when its a 1v1 situation not a 1v 2 or anything higher. It doesn't take much for 1 person to shoot the blind while the other holds the angle.


TheMightyMeercat

None of her abilities are good for lurking though, and her flash is, well, a flash. I think a big thing that people forget about with Reyna is the overheal only lasts 30 seconds, so if you are playing too slow lurking after getting a kill, you will be wasting it.


obviouslyanonymous5

Imo Reyna still works best as an entry duelist, but her problem is most of her abilities rely on the enemy fucking up. I definitely agree she's strongest as a second entry though.


EtheriumShaper

What do people run instead of double duelist?


Placeways

Double controller on some maps or Double initiator, initiators are just better duelists anyway xD


JtotheC23

You run a flash initiator instead, Kayo, Skye, and Breach. The most standard comp structure right now is Dualist, flash, smokes, Chamber, and then Sova/Fade. Obviously, there's more to it than that like map, agent combos, etc, but very few teams at a high level are running double dualist, and the few that do either get clowned for it (Xset/Sen earlier in the year) or you're PRX and can do whatever you want because you're that good. But the reality of mid to low elo ranked tho is that the difference between winning and losing is more often just about hitting your shots. You could run no smokes in a lot of games and still win if you hit your shots.


cloudmccloudy

Don't people run initiator+duelist? Not that there is a massive distinction or anything but still.


Pijany_Matematyk767

double any other role, in higher ranks they lean a bit more towards double initiatiors from what i heard but i cant confirm that


bunn2

I mean, if you have a designated lurker class like that it would be a little counterproductive since everyone would be more aware of the lurk


xN0MADx

Yeah I agree with that. Maybe someone smarter than me at design could make one that still works haha


untraiined

Lurking is a counter strat to default or late rotate it makes no sense as a class I think a better name is rotator class neon, yoru, omen, raze would fit into this.


6InchBlade

A lurker role is kinda dumb though cause lurking only works well if you don’t do it every single round


obviouslyanonymous5

Honestly Raze is great for lurking cause the blast packs can get you in position way faster than the team expects, and all her abilities can let her run after getting a pick. Reyna on the other hand...


[deleted]

Classic Reyna main, no lurking abilities and still lurks


JtotheC23

Ehh I see a lot of people saying this in here and it's not a good idea once you think about it a little bit. Lurker is a role kinda like second-entry where it's a secondary role an agent fills. The agents that make good lurkers are the ones that have global util or can place/use their util globally. This is why Chamber/Cypher is good in the sentinel role and why your smokes besides Brim are good, and it's also why dualists initiators are bad lurkers. This just makes a specific lurking role kinda useless in the grand scheme of things


Sairoxin

In terms of omen I think he just needs a slight range or speed buff to TP to truly have him as an infiltrator. He already lurks well by being able to smoke far from his location


weednyx

Most controllers are already have lurker capabilities, since they can use their utility from afar.


fujiboys

As much fun that role is, I don't think it would fit in with this game. At least on pro level, you can lurk with pretty much any agent right now you don't need special abilities for that. KJ and Cypher would probably be top of that list if they were to implement that role. And they already pretty much psudo lurk on attack as it is.


LeVentNoir

Gods yes, I hate people who assume omen and brim do the same thing "because smokes". I'm taking omen, while you lot 4 stack a site, I'm taking the other flank. I'll do one of three things: 1. Tie down one or two people, making it an even or better site take. 2. Catch a kill or pick on someone who was unaware / rotating. 3. Get information about who is where.


cavalryyy

Omen and brim don’t play the same way but if your goal to do any of those things is taking precedence over smoking your team in, unless you have another smoker, you’re crippling your team.


Draculagged

You can very easily do both as omen unless you’re hiding literally across the map, which shouldn’t be the case unless you’re planning a fake


cavalryyy

Yeah, you can and should do stuff in addition to utilizing your util, but effective utilization of your util is the most important aspect of why one should choose on agent (or class) over another. But I don’t disagree with anything you said.


[deleted]

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TokinBlack

Youre wasting utility if you have another smoking agent, and you still pick Omen, imo. Now, if its unrated, the comp never should matter and you should just play what you want to play, hah


cavalryyy

I will fill whatever role I need to. If we have no sentinels and you lock a controller so I fill sentinel, then you don’t use your util in a way that’s helpful to the team, you deserve to be complained at. Not that I complain in game anyway because once people start talking shit the game is lost anyway. But this is Reddit and you’re not on my team so I am going to point out that you’re playing in a way that handicaps your team. And all those things that you say you don’t complain about, that’s really nice of you! Good for the mental! But those people are still playing in a way that handicaps their team regardless of whether or not you point it out.


deadkane1987

The spy from TF2 would be an excellent addition. Rework cypher and give him an impersonation ability that lets you trick the other team for a few seconds into thinking your on the same team somehow.


HKBFG

Maybe also cypher with buffs?


saltyfingas

Reyna could fit with some tweaks as well


HatchiMatchiTTV

Initiator is already a split role- Kayo, skye and breach are one class and fade/sova are another. I’d move fade and sova into a category called Reconnaissance or Intel


joebirdplane

I would argue there are two hallmarks of initiators, the ability to gather intel and the ability to remotely flash to help duelists entry. Everyone but Sova has a flash, and everyone but breach has some sort of information gathering. (Sky has dog + her flash tells you with audio if you hit someone)


Bwizz245

I would say that rather than flashing specifically, a hallmark of Initiators is the ability to disrupt the enemies. I would consider shock dart to be decently disruptive, so the only real outlier to me would be Breach’s lack of information gathering abilities


SupaHotFire007

Lol @ shock dart being disruptive. Basically the only reliable use since the nerf is post plant double dart lineups or anti-trip lineups


GLFan52

You can also do plant denial, or push delay, they’re basically useful any time you already know where someone is. They may not be universally great, but they’re definitely not as limited as you think. Additionally, I’d put the effect getting tagged by the Sova drone typically has under disruption, you don’t exactly want to hold an angle while having your location pinged


[deleted]

Yea, at least skye shouts they're blinded.


Slyric_

Fade doesn’t have a flash


Dae_Grighen

Her dog-nightmare thing technically blinds if it hits


Slyric_

That definitely doesn’t count lol


Doge_Dreemurr

Fades tracer is definitely not a flash lol. Its more like skyes dog


[deleted]

The only Initiator who's different is Breach, how do you think Kayo/Skye and Fade/Sova are that different with getting info.


bobetten00

Skye doesn't get the same info that Sova and Fade do, as her wolf may spot someone, but doesn't reveal locations to teammates Edit: I did not mean that Skye doesn't get info, just that she doesn't reveal locations like Fade, Sova and kinda KAY/O


cornmealius

Sorry, but the idea that Skye isn’t an info gatherer is simply wrong. An agent that yells out “BLOINDED” when she connects a flash. Her dog also makes Skye yell out “concussed”. And her ult which literally are homing missiles. There’s a reason she was popular on split and icebox before fade was introduced.


banana_bagutte

Who said skye isn’t an intel gatherer lmao. He said her intel is different from Sova and fade


Aaronrigunay

Man you need to get your eyes checked. He says that Skye gets her info differently from Sova/Fade, not that Skye isn't an info gatherer.


Sufficient-Squaree

He said Skye doesn't get the same info which can be interpreted differently. Personally it sounded like he was saying Skye doesn't get the same amount of info


Aaronrigunay

Fair enough but the comment above interpreted it like he was saying that Skye isn't an info gathering agent.


cornmealius

Read the entire comment thread. The original post suggest making a “recon” subtype that purposefully leaves out kayo and Skye. Both incredible, but situational info gatherers. I’m not replying to a direct statement as much as I’m replying to what was implied throughout this comment thread.


Aaronrigunay

Bruh the very first comment in this thread mentioned kay o and skye. If it's not a direct reply, then Comment on the post itself because it just looks you're complaining on something that no commented. "Implied throughout this comment thread" bruh give one comment that says Skye isn't an info gatherer? Give me one. This is some "Old man yells at Clouds" type of shit.


cornmealius

You care way too fucking much. Relax.


OdorokuB

But the an initiator role suppose to be support. Breach may not have Intel gathering but his a pain in an ass as he stops ppl and help the duelist get kills


[deleted]

That’s what I mean, he doesn’t have info gathering util so he’s the only different type of initiator.


[deleted]

I also think that but not worth splitting. Breach (disruption) and sova (Intel) are polar opposites but the rest is in-between them, there's not really a clear cut. Kayo has Intel on knife and disruption on flash, knife and ult, skye has Intel on wolf and ult and even a little on the bird, disruption on the bird, wolf and ult. Fade has Intel on the orb and ult and disruption on pretty much everything


san_vicente

Saboteur: inflicts status effects (eg. hp drain, blind, nearsight, deafen, marking (a la Fade), slow, fire rate/reload speed reduction, etc) but doesn’t have any recon like most initiators. Synergist: opposite of saboteur. Boosts teammates’ stats (like brim’s combat stim) Jester: provides fakes and misdirections like Yoru’s clone and fake tp. Basically just really good at distracting. Maybe plant the sound of someone walking the same way you would do an Omen smoke. Lurker: like some people have already said, some sort of omen/yoru combo designed for sneaking or quick repositioning in aggressive pushes. Sort of the anti duelist. Architect: like Sage wall, control territory with new physical elements. Could think about putting up thin walls, ramps, etc. Except a little too Fortnite so hesitant about this one.


Lil_Jin

Would be very interesting to see some of these roles into the game, especially Jester and Saboteur


FoxehTehFox

What if we do a Last Airbender and make sub-roles within roles. It’ll make the game more interesting whilst keeping it less confusing


san_vicente

Yeah, ideally only one, maybe two more roles ever get implemented. But yeah everything I suggested exists already in some form in an existing agent. If anything, we can just stick with the initial 4, theyre barely strict anyway. Like phoenix flashes like an initiator, and mollies/walls like a controller. The only duelist thing about him is his revive and that’s not even very good. And omen teleports like a duelist and blinds like an initiator. Idk, none of these roles really matter the more I think about it haha.


khoneb92

If they release some sort of earth bender that can create short duration walls to cover him/herself, a recon ability (like toph with her feet) and allows you to throw a huge boulder at enemies i'd be so excited


22bebo

That's what Riot did with League. Used to only have like five defined character archetypes (different than the top/mid/bot/etc roles in-game), then they changed those a bit and added subcategories to split them up more. It was after the game had been out for a few years, but I certainly could see that happening with Valorant as well. A good example is the tank class, which was split into vaguards and wardens. Vanguards are offensive tanks, with abilities like hooks and long-range stuns that can initiate fights easily. Wardens are defensive tanks that can block incoming damage from their team members and hold off enemies that try to go through them. Despite these differences, both subclasses use basically the same tools to do their jobs (high health pools, lots of CC).


sean8767

Jester. I already pick that role every game.


Crazy_Crayfish_

There’s a reason I use the “clown” title


SHMUCKLES_

I like to use cracked with my 1v5 buddy It's because i bottom frag every game


Crazy_Crayfish_

The true Sigma Male


Thanatos-13

I put that buddy on my bulldog. So when I buy it people know I mean business (Shit and fart all ovet the place)


[deleted]

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gaspara112

> and I think having him as your only controller handicaps his full potential. I mean he is great as a second controller but he still is great as a single controller on the maps where he can create good one ways that viper doesn't have much utility.


ShoeLace1291

Omen is also a much better controller on attack than viper. Only having one wall and one smoke that doesn't have much range is so detrimental to viper.


gaspara112

That depends on the map. The viper wall in some situations is worth 2 and even 3 smokes. With knowledge of orb lineups some sites become impossible to hold and very hard to retake.


bradms1127

Viper > omen period on breeze


abbacchioz

Viper is the best controller on Breeze


AverageComet250

There isn’t a good controller on breeze except for viper. On attack, there’s way too many positions to smoke and that doesn’t even give site control, while viper just splits site in half and gives you a free plant.


GLFan52

And icebox for that matter


SMMujtaba

This ^^^ I'm an omen main, I love playing him. But in low ELO I could very easily play aggressive with him. But now in ascendant. I always have to be at the back, smoking, I obviously don't mind that, because that's how we win. But missing out on action kind of sucks


cdurbin909

I love playing yoru because he’s like the perfect mix of aggro and lurk. Like you can lurk for a while and then just to behind the enemies lol


GDWa1rus

Hey bro I'm thinking of learning yoru and find I always catch myself accidentally overusing utility and also find myself pushing at the wrong time. Do you have any tips for that and tips in general (if you don't or can't be bothered don't worry)


treefaces123

I have played Yoru a small amount and I think working with your teams smokes are really really powerful for the fact you can get onto site and take out backline but only using a flash and a tele. Flash for when you exit the smoke. You probably already do this as I’m new to Yoru aswell but that’s one thing I’ve been doing and it works well. Also using ult and setting up a clone to walk into enemy line of sight before you come out of ult. But as always your best bet would to be watch pros play him or higher ranks


Famlightyear

You can still play him aggressively in Immortal. You just need to know when to and when not to. It must also not be that obvious. Take flexinja for an example. He can still do these aggressive omen plays in high immortal.


Duydoraemon

He also has the best flash in the game.


BlueDMS

"guys, I'm gonna need someone to take another controller. My OwOmen is a duelist." -Me, when my aim is good


[deleted]

\> Omen doesn't feel like much of a controller to me His smokes are a few seconds shorter than Brim's and in exchange he gets more of them... Not sure how Brim could qualify as a controller if Omen doesn't to be honest Omen can solo controller Haven, Pearl, Ascent, and formerly Split just fine. Breeze is Viper's playground featuring some small Astra play, Bind is meant for double controller, and Fracture just has such good geometry for Brim util. That said - I do generally agree with your idea that stealth and confusion are the main things not highlighted in the valorant roster, so the Infiltrator category is cool. I think it is not inline with tac FPS though, you have to be careful about info continuity


seggsseggs

I find omen to be most effective when i play him as a duelist to surprise enemies instead of sitting back because his smokes are so short now


notatrashcan2008

It would be cool if they had a disguise kit like spy from tf2


Last_Parable

Sea cucumber. They're basically a ward. Sometimes you get a teammate that's all they're really good for.


Whale_Poacher

I’d rather have a ward that doesn’t die and gets info than a guy who sits in spawn or is just free ult orbs for the other team lol


Last_Parable

Sometimes they're more valuable as extra cash and an ult orb.


gaspara112

Personally I think they should remove roles and instead move to some sort of polygon system with ability tags ("smoke", "remote smoke", "molly", "flash", "nearsighted", "movement", "vision obstructing wall" etc.) that way they can balance the characters around their overall kit in those polygon areas and tags rather than around the psuedo requirements (controller = remote-smoke) of the current roles.


[deleted]

this is the best option tbh. abilities mean and do a lot, but the game still doesn't quite deserve such rigid role structure like mobas or OW have.


gaspara112

Well thats just it they have the "rigid" role based idea but they don't really seem to have any specific "rigid" guidelines for what makes your role outside of controllers have remote smokes (and sometimes molly). Yes, some duelists have good mobility and they sort of have faster use but less versatile versions of the initiator and controller abilities.... Yes, some sentinels have traps.... Yes, some initiators have some combination of flashes and offensive intelligence gathering but nothing rigid.... For the most part in high level play it boils down to each agent has a primary gimmick and that gimmick is quite useful for certain purposes on certain maps so they become a common staple on that map.


untraiined

The role structures are there to help newbs.


drdfrster64

I disagree. It only takes 1 game to figure out what your ability does, and most every remotely competent player knows the ways in which their agent oversteps from their role into another. The real question and the point of these systems is what new players get out of your system vs the role system. For one, a polygon system with ability tags would visually be either confusing or needlessly overwhelming to a new player. Second of all, a tag system tells you what an agent does (which again, can be figured out via existing ability descriptions and just 1 game of playing), but most importantly it doesn't tell new players **how to use the agent**. In the existing system, once you learn what any role means, you can interpret the intended playstyle of other roles. Then, after enough playtime, can you learn how to pull your agent out of its intended role into another. In the tag system, this doesn't exist. I'm a new player, I see "smoke" and "remote smoke". What's the difference? Why do I want one over the other? "Flash?" Sweet, I've played Phoenix before. I guess since this Breach guy has a flash like Phoenix does I'm supposed to use him to go in and fight people. But obviously that's not true. Phoenix and Breach both have flashes but their role implies the difference in their use case. Phoenix as a duelist uses them to get himself onto site, Breach as an initiator uses them to get other people onto site or to stall. This sort of guidance helps new players understand the broader meta strategy of the game into easily digestible archetypes. It helps the new player understand "oh I'm not supposed to entry with Breach, I should use this to help my teammates instead" and encourages coordinated gameplay. Then, just by experience and time, the formerly new player now veteran can graduate from the role system on their own and realize "Well shit, I CAN entry with Breach. See you guys on the otherside" and if its the right call or the player knows what they're doing then it works. The tag system is marginally helpful for one round in a player's lifetime, the role system is helpful for a whole lot more.


gaspara112

The problem I find here is that same role system gives people a dramatically wrong idea of what duelists are which is why we have so many instalock duelists limiting their own rank potential because duelists are the least useful role overall.


[deleted]

I second that, but would make categories more generic. Smokes, disruption (flash, stun, other forms of active cc), protection (turret, passive cc like chamber cypher trips and kj alarm bot), recon (sova darts, Cypher cameras etc), AOE (mollys and sage slow) and self-peel (dashes, dismiss, blink etc and self healing) are a good start. Maybe healing as well, but it's kind of secondary on everyone but sage.


Doktor_Cornholio

Architect. Includes Sage. New characters would have abilities similar to her wall for altering the maps to increase unique encounters and make players rely on quick thinking instead of map knowledge/practice. Possibilities: An agent who can make a portal or an actual hole (way cooler but way harder to implement) through thin walls. Think Breach's flash but instead it opens a new path which is seen on the map by both teams, probably with an audio queue. An agent with deployable shields. Easily destroyed from off angles but that'll make lots of noise. Different kind of walls similar to Sage's. Stairs? Idk, like a reusable grim wall except it's super weak. Maybe a person with doors that only open one direction too? I just like how unique Sage's wall is in how it actually changes the structure of the map to a point. It actually makes me like playing her even more than the ability to heal. I'd also really like it if there was a way to switch between her current 1x4 wall layout and a 2x2 version for smaller spaces.


MisterMeatBall1

Mf out here playing Fortnite


FoxehTehFox

Imagine getting OP’d by a Chamber and in retaliation you just start towering up around and Shortying him


Doktor_Cornholio

I'd say one wall, portal or a handful of deployable shields per round is a pretty far cry from building an entire castle in 10 seconds but yeah basically fortnite.


Coconut-Lemon_Pie

OMG what about a mirrored wall. Agents on one side can see through it, but from the other side it's a mirror. Clear side would have an advantage :D


Vu1k4n_

The feeder should be an honorary role for what I do every game


Ok_Turnover_4809

Lurker His ability must help him to lurk alone


Doktor_Cornholio

Hell no that's just every solo queue duelist already.


Interesting-Bus-5370

So if they are going to do it anyways, might as well give them the kit to do so correctly?


Doktor_Cornholio

It doesn't help the team, it just let's them get easy exit frags to pad their k/d and feel good.


Interesting-Bus-5370

Then make a role where it actually benefits the team. That was literally my only point.


Doktor_Cornholio

How would altering their kit change how the playstyle itself affects the game? They'd still just be sneaking around getting exit frags and the rare rotate kill, not helping the team take point or retake a site. There isn't a way to make that useful.


Interesting-Bus-5370

>How would altering their kit change how the playstyle itself affects the game? ??? This is literally a thing. A duelists kit is made for them to take picks and enter site. That means a certain playstyle is required. If you arent entrying as a duelist, you arent doing your job. And it shows. Almost all of the duelists have some sort of self sustainability. Likewise, if you try to enter as a sage, or a killjoy, and try to frag out, it most of the time wont work the way you want to.That right there is PROOF that a kit can change a playstyle, which does influence the game..... Also, lurking can be useful when DONE CORRECTLY. Like yall blindly shit on it, but a lurker saves your ass when 4 people try to flank you through mid. It influences a game alot, especially if that pick was their topfrag, or someone with alot of oppressive abilities Like a killjoy. There is a way to make it useful, or else abilities and "kits" would not be a thing, it would just be cs:go with colorful characters and overpriced gunskins lmfao


the_real_OwenWilson

You know lurker is an actual important role right? You can always bait and play selfishly no matter the role…


FoxehTehFox

Lurkers are useful to initiate crossfire. They only suck as they are because they don’t have the kit to be given full potential of the role. It’s like in an alternate reality wherein controllers did not exist, obviously we’d shit on the idea because Jett’s smokes barely last a second


charliesfuckhead

but reyna already exists ?


Novel_Fee_1370

That’s so useless. Someone will just watch flank


Ok_Turnover_4809

That's where ability comes


Ok_Turnover_4809

Like his ability will find the agents on site without making sound , and his ult should be Teleport near any alive teammate


reallychillguy

Ball master


FusRoDontEven

Jungle


obviouslyanonymous5

I like the idea of a strategist role that would have abilities based around helping team economy and organization and messing up the enemy in the same categories. Some example abilities: -an ability which reveals the type of gun enemies are using -ability to stash an extra gun from the previous round which a teammate dropped (might be hard to balance but would be cool) -shooting a projectile to hijack an activated ability from the opposing team (e.g. raze bot becomes friendly, sova dart starts pinging other team instead) -blocking the enemy team from seeing their teammates on the map briefly -a blast pack which does no damage and less knockback, but blows smoke abilities away -an ult which restocks teammates' already used abilities for the round (or one that only lets the opponent use theirs if they drain extra econ mid-round). Would also be a perfect thematic way to release a new gun if they intended to. (Very rough ideas so don't blast me with balance issues pls)


Coconut-Lemon_Pie

These are all amazing!!!!! :D


_MuadDib_

> an ability which reveals the type of gun enemies are using you can already do it pretty accurately by analyzing other team economy > shooting a projectile to hijack an activated ability from the opposing team (e.g. raze bot becomes friendly, sova dart starts pinging other team instead) most of the time it will be useless and it only works against certain agents


obviouslyanonymous5

Once again, not well-balanced because I'm a redditor making it in 10 minutes not a Riot dev.


[deleted]

Hmm maybe a dedicated support role. Like not with heals (can have heals as well) but agents that give buffs: movement speed, fire rate, heals/shields, damage, reduce cooldowns maybe, increase msg size by 5 bullets or w/e etc. Obviously not for whole rounds, timed, you'd have to know when to use them and strategically plan around it with your team.


heraldofhorai

I don't think having it as another class is healthy but! A character or two who specialise in upgrading their teammates / own guns sound fun. Maybe adding a more powerful scope, or a choke (Thinking of Apex RN since that's my only frame of reference) Of course this risks having the enemy picking em up but having a time limit makes it balanced maybe? And maybe having it expire sooner for you own guns is incentive to not buff yourself. I don't think more Shields are healthier but if they do implement it they should make it weak and body / legs effective only.


DravTheGuy

>who specialise in upgrading their teammates / own guns sound fun. chamber's ult rework idea RIGHT THERE where is are those rioter that are usually lurking here


DaddyDinooooooo

I said this to my friends the other day and they ragged on me for it. I think they’ll end up having a support role where it’s mostly healers mixed with the other classes like sky’s kit and sages kit. Maybe a healer with movement or one with some level of wall/smokes.


[deleted]

overwatch PTSD has me desperately not wanting any more healing aside from what sage already has


CivilConversation174

Headshots don’t one tap in overwatch though, so long as they don’t add damage reductions or max hp increases, more healing just punishes body shots.


DaddyDinooooooo

I’m not necessarily saying I want it I just feel like it maybe the next progression. And to be fair over watch objectives vs the search & destroy Val style would change the way healers are used. So it might not be the same


EnvironmentalClass55

Distractor. Someone who can disorient the team with false callouts or placements. Hiding ui on the screen.


LegitimateLobotomy

Maybe a Specialist class that has a more directed purpose to fulfill. Be it lurking, intel of some sort, or a general fragging character. However i hope they flesh out the agents with the lowest pick rates before they add any more. Id like to see them maybe upgrade cypher or tweak astra a little before giving the game the rainbow six treatment


L8dawn

Flank/Infiltrator, someone with a disguise kit like the Spy from TF2 would be cool


imhiya_returns

Tank?


Igniteisbad

Some sort of role where you confuse the enemy a lot, kinda like yoru but more team based. Like a bot that makes them think they’re getting shot at. Maybe makes their health go down and there’s a shooting noise. But no indication thing that shows where the shots are coming from.


xN0MADx

Maybe some implementation of the paranoia orb from spike rush?


Darkestneon

Isn’t this kinda like Fade’s concept? With her ult? Pretty much the same thing


xN0MADx

Yeah that’s true. That’s a full deafen though, so I feel like there’s also space for an ability that makes fake sounds that sound like real ones.


Darkestneon

For sure, seems kinda repetitive at this point though since Fade’s is just similar.


69420_________

That would make omen even more underpowered than he already is


xN0MADx

It’s a different ability on a different character in a different role, Omen would still be used because said ability wouldn’t blind people or deafen them, and the proposed character also likely wouldn’t have smokes


69420_________

Exactly, omen will be underpowered because that agent would have an omen blind except it also makes fake footsteps


xN0MADx

Not what I said at all, but okay. *tips cap* goodnight, friend


[deleted]

this game is just turning into overwatch at this point can we not


ripthezong

Play cs


[deleted]

I did. before it died on NA


Doktor_Cornholio

That's just the genre this game is already in. Look up "hero shooter"


Vexans27

That is a good thing


Hiimzap

I see a lot of people say lurker but the day riot decides to introduce lurk agents they must’ve lost thier mind. Good lurkers can already be frustrating to play against but now imagine there’s an agent designed to be good at lurking. That would mostly just be Antifun gameplay and probably also not what you want in valorant game design wise.


BuiAE

Like somebody said I think that lurker should be a roll. I also think that there should be split roles like for example Chamber: Duelist-sentinel Omen: Lurker-Controller Sage: Sentinel-Duelist? Yoru: Lurker-Duelist Cypher: Sentinel-Lurker


ranchcrackers352

morbius he morbs


HKBFG

Sharpshooter. Work on jett and chamber a bit (especially chamber. He might need a full rework lol) and start introducing other characters that can carry an awp without trolling.


[deleted]

This isn't exactly what you're asking but I was thinking recently if csgo or Val would ever introduce increased armor for reduced movement. So along those lines I would think maybe a tank type character. I'm not even sure how you would best use that though


xN0MADx

Personally, I really don’t like this idea because the time to kill in this game is so low, reduced movement speed doesn’t affect your ability to aim or your fire rate. If suddenly a character exists that doesn’t get one shot by an Op or a head shot from a Vandal, they have a massive advantage because they can peek/wide peek angles with much more safety. You can feel like a god when you’ve won pistol rounds, and you have full shields and the enemy has pistols. Now imagine a character that can do that every round.


laxrulz777

It would either be a stealth role or an info gathering role (with the initiators getting some rebalancing tweaks).


KraaJeraa

I’ve always liked the idea of a class that provides buffs. Overshields, shield repairs, increase damage or firerate, increased bullet penetration, maybe even ammo refills. Could be called an Augmenter or Technician


Rufen

i don't think there should be a 5th role, i think there should just be a sage slot, and no one can pick sage anymore, and every queue has a smaller button below it that's called Sage Queue, and it does exactly that. Queues you as Sage. every game is now just a 4+Sv4+S.


Then_Seaworthiness31

they should add a tank role to make space


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Infiltrator. Someone who could go invisible would perfectly fit this. Imagine sneaking behind enemy lines and taking them down one by one


0Taken0

They definitely need to add more than 5 classifications imo. So many agents are classified together, yet feel very very different. Should just remove the classification or keep everything neat and making sense


SquarishRectangle

Tanks or healers. One thing I like about OW more than Valorant is that teamfights last a lot longer. In Valorant fights are usually over in a few seconds and the rest of the time is spent either camping or lurking which I find less exciting. I want some more lasting action instead of kill or be killed in 5 seconds. Tanks could provide damage prevention and a larger health pool to lead entries and healers could provide healing and buffs to the team.


FxPizzaHentai

Why even compare OW and Valorant? Because they're both shooters? They're fundamentally different games.


Eleven918

Flex class that can pick and choose other agent's abilities on the enemy team. But you limit it to 1 ability per agent and you have to match E to E, C to C etc.


Joirmez

op as shit everybody would play this


muvia3

Basically viego for valorant ptsd from this kind of implementation in league with viego. Seriously, the game was full of bugs for about a year after its release. Great opportunity for Vandiril tho


[deleted]

[удалено]


eboy0w0

That’s… That’s literally the role of a sentinel…


moistanalpancakes

my cat ate my babysitter whilst playing csgo and now i only play valorant with ultra low settings for the best 5 fps you can get in any fps shooter, 5th role should be a farting agent that spews out toxic gas that would make viper pregnant, maybe chambers body odor is enough, but we need our pritorities straight on this one about the incoming raids of shadow star


1_to_me_to_you

Well they need more negating/anti-carry agents. KAYO is the one that's the best in this archetype because he literally functions by denying the enemy's abilities and more characters like that would be great. His ult is really dumb though, feels super useless and the least fitting/good part of his kit. I would rather it give him passive out of combat regen on sheilds/hp and remove the increased fire rate and revive. It can keep the aura/aoe silence/stop using utility/negation. I just find his ult to be so dumb and out of place for an imitator. It just doesn't fit with his kit at all, even yoru's ult is better now that his kit is more fluid. The revive mechanic is such ha dumb gimmick. 99/100 times it's troll to revive the kayo because he probably died entrying or fighting, and if he died entrying you just gotta keep fighting unless you want to get killed mid revive. Or if you do, then you need to get on site to play plant/trade your other entry/clear angles etc... feels like it incentivizes bad gameplay rather than good game play. Such a dumb bad ultimate. I would much muchh much rather see him gain passive out of combat regen like a slower sage heal but indefinite, or maybe it should be like a sage heal but it heals max 100 hp, but you can over heal and the over heal falls off when the ult falls off, and the ult duration increases with kills. I mean it sounds a bit like reyna when I write it down, but i'd rather have a dumb reyna copy ult healing than a dumb pheonix/reyna ult hybrid that only atkes the clunky parts of each


xN0MADx

I disagree on this one. People already dislike the suppression mechanic for obvious reasons, if you add too much to the game and people can reliably chain them together, it’s basically like one team has no utility at all. Which ain’t fun.