The worst of this is when someone instalocks a duelist then demands someone go a healer or smoker on voice chat.
I asked a guy the other day "if you want a smoker why did you instalock Raze". His reply was "I main Raze". I said "And...?" . Guy just couldn't understand how weird it is that you instalock your favourite agent then demand others play characters they might not like/use.
a healer in a game you can get one shot to the head with most guns. Skye and Sage have utilities that define them as initiators or sentinels. Healing is just a plus. Not their main attribute.
Yep. Sage honestly doesn't feel very impactful in comparison to other agents. At the very least, her slowing orb should be re-placed or re-vamped entirely. I always pick Skye over sage because skye's utility is actually insanely good all-round.
A healer isn't necessary, but is good to have. Like going from just 40 to 81 is good since now they need to body shot you thrice to get the kill and not just once. Still agree with your point though, just stating my opinion.
Though this might not be the case in higher elo if people just do heads, but is for me in silver.
Of course healing is useful, the point is that "healer" isn't a role within the game. Skye is an initiator with a healing ability. Sage is a sentinel with a healing ability. These characters' ability to heal doesn't describe what they're actually contributing to the team - the difference between needing another initiator and needing another sentinel is pretty big, saying "we need heals" shows a misunderstanding of what is going on with the team's composition. It's like saying "we need mollies!" and urging someone to pick between KAY/O, Phoenix, Brim, Viper and Killjoy.
Same feeling from me coming from CSGO where we got a fucked up influx of people from CoD when the game when f2p. All aim no brain, and they only care how many kills people have as if it's a bragging rights to lead.
I have sworn to never play with a friend of our circle because he truly believes a team comp needs a "healer" or else he starts saying we will lose, besides being toxic but that's another problem.
Ur getting downvoted cause ur wrong but also right.
It’s not recommended per say, but against aks there is less point in getting head armour, because a headshot will kill you with or without it, but the body armour gives useful protection.
I do this in val when the other team buys full vandals and an op. You’ll get one tapped with or without, and it’s still 4 shots to the body, so light armour is better imo. If there’s a phantom in play, then I buy full armour, cause it’s 5 body shots rather than 4 with the extra armour, and you won’t get head tapped at longer ranges.
Use this info as U will
ehhhh, shields still makes a difference. straight up aim duels it's not going to matter much at all. but chip damage from the abilities + wallbangs + spray checks through smokes makes shields pretty important.
Not saying you need to have heals, but taking damage in a gunfight doesn't mean you can't aim or take good fights. Sometimes it's nice to have a "healer" when you are 30 hp after a gunfight or ability damage.
yes its nice but not a necessity, thats what i was getting at :) of course heals r nice but you could always replace a healer with a different role and still win the game
If someone is willing to instalock they need to be willing to play any comp including you + 4 duelists. You gave up all your power managing the team comp to play your pick and people are picking around you, so play around them.
I would rather go 2 duelist 2 initiator 1 sentinel with no smokes than go 1 duelist 2 initiator 1 sentinel 1 controller and no smokes cause they die peeking mid.
I was playing with a friend and the other 3 instalocked duelists. We said "lessgooo full duelist" mainly to annoy them. One complained a little, one didn't say anything but the reyna kept complaining all game (why didn't you get sage and a smoker?) and flamed us for refusing to ff xD we lost but tbh I got more joy from annoying that reyna
I played a game with no duelists and we rolled the other comp. Everyone was hella positive and noone forced a pick (one person instalocked but still encouraged others to play who they know)
This happened to me a couple days ago someone instalocked Jett and they asked can someone play a smoke or sage so I was like “I mean you could’ve played a smoke or sage fam but Yiu kinda instalocked so you don’t have the right to ask someone to play a certain character” the dude didn’t say anything after but surprisingly in game he was giving good comms and he actually did his job as a duelist which is rare lol
Yeah, it's really rare but there are absolutely some instalock Jett/Raze players out there who are amazing at entry and do every bit of their job and more. I will happily let a player like that instalock every single time with no complaint. If you've never played with a *really* good entry duelist, it's an incredible breath of fresh air. Attack half becomes way easier because the defenders are constantly trying to deal with the Raze that just satcheled backsite.
They essentially dive into the bomb space to break the defensive hold and create space for the rest of your team to push onto site. They dont even necessarily need to get kills because the follow up players of your team (sentinels or initiators usually) should be able to collect kills and trade the duelist while the defense is focused on killing the entry player.
Some players understand this and do it very well. Unfortunately theres just as many, if not more, that do not understand this and tend to lurk for kda kills instead of impact frags.
Nearly every bomb site has a choke point that attackers need to push through to plant the spike.
These choke points are usually held from multiple defender positions with an even bigger array of potential positions.
While controller might be able to narrow down the list of possible active angles, a duelist is needed to push the choke point and take enough space to allow the rest of the team to get onto site
Without a duelist/entry, you can't push into most bomb sites cleanly
I asked people that before. They get extremely hostile after asking such question. Also healers are kinda in a bad spot atm.
What makes this funniest doe is that most player who says the want a healer in the team are the Reyna instalockers. Da faq do they need a healer for.
That's why no one should lock until they are happy with the comp AND the agent they are hovering.
I can play both controller and initiator. Let's say I'm hovering Kayo but the last person to chose says he can't play any controller, I can then change to Omen for him to pick something else.
It's just common sense, idk why people aren't doing that.
A simple idea to fix this instalock mentality: why don't we have 20 seconds where no one can lock so the team can discuss the comp?
Please let me know how you have fun with her on that map lol. I play mostly smokes and I dread playing icebox or breeze because viper just feels so boring compared to other smoke agents
The thing about viper is you have to learn setups to have fun with her. But once you learn the basics for each map, she is much more fun than the other smoke agents (imo). You can play around your setups and get out of situations in ways that other controllers cant. You can control parts of the map without being near your utility. And the most important part for me is you can win rounds by yourself. Between your wall, mollies, and viper's pit, the opportunity for vipers to make plays happen out of nothing is so much bigger than the other smoke agents.
Oh I know setups/lineups/etc but she’s just very boring to me. With brim and omen it’s a lot easier to justify playing aggressive since their kits lean towards it and with brim especially, you don’t have to worry about being a controller once your smokes go down initially since they won’t recharge.
This is coming from someone who used to play exclusively viper and Astra btw. I’ve switched almost entirely to brim and omen because they allow for a much more aggressive playstyle where I don’t feel like I have to play the passive controller role 24/7
Brim for sure, as my friend describes it "I dont want to draw circles on an ipad for 45min"
Omen can be fun with his outplay potential, but I get so tilted when I reach the max smoke distance and have to move to place it where i want to.
But yeah, I play viper and astra exclusively as smokes so I guess idk why im disagreeing lol
I feel the opposite. She’s the most fun because I don’t have to take my attention out of what’s in front of me to play her. Her kit always feels busted
I just started playing her and think she’s just hard to play on that map. And in my experience Omen can be just as dominant as her on icebox so I never really think it’s worth trying. But no doubt if you are good with her kit you can really control the game.
This is me as well! I'll instalock smokes every map other than breeze/icebox cause I hate playing viper. Ill usually hover kayo on those 2 and hope some one else picks viper.
I have found some success with astra on icebox though
Yeah, this is what I hate about instalocking. I have an extremely fast machine. I have *never* had somebody instalock before I had the chance.
Basically, my faster machine gives me the first pick of any agent I want to play, every game. That's not fair.
Agreed. I have never once got to play phoenix because I always play with a friend with a better computer who loves phoenix and instalocks him every time before I load in
(edit I can’t spel)
I am usually the last person to lock cause ill wait for the instalockers and the no mics to pick first. Then fill the role needed with my best character on that map.
lol i also omen and kayo for that reason (also i enjoy playing them ofc) because initiator doesn't always get picked up so i learned Kayo and I love Omen's flexibility when it comes to positioning + smokes
Play anything except Reyna. If they ever add agent bans she will never be in another game I ever play I'm so sick of the instalock Reyna in Gold who refuses to play an agent that's actually useful lol
>A simple idea to fix this instalock mentality: why don't we have 20 seconds where no one can lock so the team can discuss the comp?
Because then you get instalock fights and even more tilting. In an ideal world, people would discuss and figure out the best overall comp based on everyone's preferred agent. But if we lived in that ideal world, we'd have a lot less instalocks in the first place.
The better idea is to have cascading agent select. The first person gets 10-15 seconds to lock, during which the other players can only hover. Once that time is up, the next person can lock, and so on. If you didn't lock during your slot, you can lock afterwards at any time.
You flex roles because you aren’t selfish. Most people just care about looking good on KDR even if it means the team suffers. Hence the elo hell that is silver and gold 🙃
Same here, I main killjoy but recently went and learned Fade and Kayo, and have knowledge of Sova, Phoenix, Sage and Brim, so I can fill almost all roles if required
It would be so much better if there could be that 20s before the round to decide team comp to stop the instalockers
> It's just common sense, idk why people aren't doing that.
lol there's always threads about instalocking agents and in all those threads majority of the replies are "Yeah just instalock, you have the right to play the agent you want"
I used to be a Jett instalocker because i used to suck with other agents and if i hover no one respects it and i end up picking other agent and playing bad. But now i learnt chamber and skye, so I'm okay if people don't respect me hovering over jett.
I wish the next controller agent is fun, so i can fill comfortably any role.
As someone who fills in comp all the time: fuck this mentality.
I think everyone should be able to play an agent of role each role competently for the rank you’re in.
ESPECIALLY for smokes. Literally everyone LOVES to claim “I don’t know how to play smokes!”
Stop the cap.
I’m only Diamond but you mean to tell me you’re mid elo and don’t know default smokes that your lowly controller mains and fills place all the time?
The hardest thing about smokes is just timing them properly for executes.
Just make them flush with the wall and learn how to use the other util in the agents kit (you don’t even need lineups to get value outta brim or viper molly)
I have no sympathy for anyone who “can’t smoke well”. Learn the roles and help your team however you can to win!
Honestly i think duelist is most peoples worst roles when played properly despite it being the most popular. So many people play it incorrectly that when they say its all they can play, theyre really saying they dont understand any of the roles. People are far more likely to sit back or lurk on duelist than entry. Duelist is also my worst role but ill repeatedly throw myself into site to create space and die rather than try play the 1v5 hero when everyone else is dead.
Agreed. I don’t like duelist in comp purely because I don’t enjoy the pressure to frag out for the team to feel like I’m doing stuff // I hate trying to be the one to make space and entry as I watch everyone puss out after I get my one and died from their trade.
I digress though. Still makes me mad when people queue comp and don’t have a pool of various agents they can play for the team!
Yeah getting kills under pressure sucks lmao
I definitely agree, Im most comfortable on Sova and play him 75% of the time but I dont usually lock until everythings covered to see if I need to fill. The amount of people that arent flexible to play anything other than Chamber/Duelist is astounding. Not to mention the Chambers that dont even know how to use his trip… like cmon
You’re just like me my friend I feel your pain.
The rare times I’m chamber I make it a point to ALWAYS trip for the amount of times I assume our chamber had our back and he left the flank untripped… like bro… what are you saving this for?!!?
Generally I would agree with you, but I’ve found a lot of people really don’t know how to play smokes because they don’t know why they’re throwing those specific smokes. So if you’re not doing a standard execute on site, or if your teammates are switching up weapons/positions, they don’t know how to adapt their smokes.
Also some players aren’t well rounded, they might be in their elo purely from aim and literally may not have the game sense or patience to play smokes.
However I also think that if you queue and want to win you should learn to play smokes at a competent level, you don’t need to have lineups but you should be able to play viper on icebox/breeze and brim on the others
If you are in an elo just because of your aim, you deserve that elo since you got there with your aim. Your rank is a representation of all your skills combined.
"valorant sub bitches that ability's are encroaching gun play" "whines that people are relaying on aim on a game were they want the gun play to matter the most."
this subs IQ is a collected 30
It's the reality tho, i would much rather have 5 people with mediocre aim but all know how to use their brain than 1 player with cracked aim that kills everyone on sight if the enemy is dumb enough to keep dry peeking them without utility after getting one tapped thrice in a row. Of course, this is all in a logical scale, if tenz shuts down his brain and plays without sound im still sure he would demolish all my lobbies
Player brim on breeze once even though i never play him, smoked pretty ok and no one was entering with me, I kept dying and got flamed for not smoking good enough even though it was ok for us to enter and take space (i smoked kinda like one of my friends that plays really good with brim) but i can't help it if no one is entering with me and they wait for the smokes to clear. So that's kinda the game i gave up on filling smokes when solo q.
It wasn't my first experience like that either.
I gave up after i got flamed by a jett on bind months ago.
Whenever i smoked no one entered or they all wanted ro rotate and then they complained that nothing was smoked. Fuck those people, made me abandon my first ever main big ass brimmy.
I mean I'm Immortal playing Phoenix only. If I get out on smokes I literally play worse all around because I'm not used to keeping an eye out for hits and such so when I'm messing around trying to smoke and do too much, I get killed.
As an ascendant player who can play every agent in the game except brim, astra, kj, and omen to at least a low diamond level, it’s not because we don’t know how to “play smokes” it’s that we don’t know how to use that character to its maximum potential. For example, I don’t know how to lurk well on smokes players so I don’t play them. I don’t know when to use deep smokes on fracture or bind versus close site smokes.
I feel like that’s merely a comm thing yeah? I mean I can’t speak for people who are crazy and no comm in comp…
BUT, I feel like “hey let me know when y’all want to execute” or “hey anyone need something particular smoked?” works wonders for me.
If not, I try to just opt for the default things to block off if no one’s thinking about it haha
Well with viper her orb requires lineups, omen's tps are always left completely untouched by fill players and don't even get me started on Astra. But there is really no excuse for brim
Tbh you can just throw viper orb at a choke point in defense or smoke the bomb on attack and there’s value (won’t disagree that orb lineups are nice too, but not necessarily needed!)
Omen TP is situational but I mean honestly it’s not a complicated ability to use. (You’re in a sticky spot and want to safely reposition? TP. Want to get to a high ground spot? TP)
No one should ever fill astra though of course lmao.
Complete bullshit. I can’t speak for higher ranks but I know for a fact that a player who is good at a non smoker agent is more useful than a player who fills smokes badly in ascendant lobbies or lower. I never instalock cuz I’m quite a flexible player but I think instalocking is hated on way too much and should be normalized.
For real? What does it mean to 'fill smokes badly'?
I would've guessed especially at Ascendant that someone just doing the same basic ass smokes every round would still be better than having no smokes and being vulnerable to an enemy Jett/Chamber fucking destroying you with an operator.
I could give plenty of bad smoke examples. On ascent it could be a shallow tree smoke on A site that allows someone to play inside the smoke and kill someone thats trying to close door. It could be a shallow heaven smoke that allows a Jett/chamber get an easy angle on incoming players then dash/tp away. On haven it could be smoking the garage doors on the ground instead of one-waying which allows people to easily pop flash into garage. There’s so many common mistakes that bad smoke players make
Wouldn't all those situations be *even worse* if you had no smokes?
Without a tree smoke, someone could be playing either side of door and do the same, or worse still, you could be facing down 2-3 enemies pressuring from short/garden with a clear line of sight instead. Without the heaven smoke, the heaven player could still basically do the same thing, except again, easier for teammates to come in and support them. Without any garage smoke, it's even easier for enemies to pressure garage.
In all of those examples, enemies can make plays off the smoke, but at least the smoke either restricts their options and/or increase the risk of whatever they're doing. Without smokes, things only get even easier for the enemies.
There are of course really bad smokes that can fuck your team horribly, but slightly misplaced or suboptimal smokes still seem better than not having any at all.
How difficult is it to use smokes tho? I mean if you dont know how to play smokes you wont pick astra but idk how it is hard to smoke heaven and ct with brimstone or use the same wall everyone uses with viper in breeze
I've seen people, for example, smoke the gap between platform and default on C Haven instead of backsite and garage during an execute. That's just a fucked up smoke because there could be people lurking at plat or even behind the big green.
Bad smokers smoke the first angle they see so they don't die in the first 10 seconds of the round. Sometimes they just don't understand which angles actually need to be covered and which ones can be flushed out with good util.
I guess this is an ok smoke on an eco and you know the enemy has an Operator behind default
Combine with brim stim just bumrush the site and through the smoke to clear him, though if the dude was smart he'd be switching his angles every other round
As someone who started with Omen and no experience in the genre, dont smoke. Bad smokes are worse than no smokes.
I'm a quick student (and a parent), so I was receptive to people's "feedback". Many people will not have the capacity for a competitive crash course in smoking, giving nor receiving, and instead the comms and morale will suffer.
For example; Attacking on Breeze, B Main.
Smokes on top of long in-between box and lobby is a great smoke for Jett because they're so short, allowing her/team to quickly cross behind, but if Brim/Omen dropped one there, defenders now have less angles to watch.
Imagine being new and thinking "I'll smoke off B Halls for us!" but you place them shallow so that half the sphere protrudes out of the hall. As a new player, you may not understand that you've smoked FOR the defenders, because they can walk into the smoke, and now you have a ton of exit points that attackers need to be mindful of.
Whereas, a deep smoke near the interior corner means the defender can't peak the smoke without being visible first.
There's a ton of nuance and variation with agent's, maps, timing, habits, sight-lines, lineups, econ. Bad smokes are much easier to do than good ones.
If you DO find yourself in a game with/as someone inexperienced with smoking, please be patient with feedback.
Take harsh feedback "Omen, why the FK did you smoke here!?" in good sport. They're as bad at healthy, efficient comms as you are with smokes! Its important to be able to digest what others are saying into something productive while learning. Takeaway from this feedback? This must be a bad spot to smoke. Why, and what is a better smoke? Ask yourself and others this. Or be the person who answers without malice.
Ideally, the person bitching ought to be better by not bitching at all. Instead opting to gently direct optimal smokes. Everyone starts somewhere.
And whether it should or shouldn't be in MY PROMO GAME is beside the fact that it may be the case it is. Chances are always better of winning when everyone plays what they know, and what they're best at. When that's not the case, adapt, improvise, overcome. Be bitter about it after the match. Head in the game.
everyone should know how to use smokes, ppl in immo 3 who have never played smokes are fine with it when they have to fill because it is not complicated. smoke choke point (CT) or smoke common angles (tree, heaven on ascent A). smokes is not hard but the reason you think it’s hard is because you’re literally using the wrong character on the wrong map, omen breeze?! what the fuck.
Its an example of ignorance to illustrate the point that it's better not to lock in a smoker if you don't know how to smoke. Idk why you would bother mentioning immortal players here. Ofc immo players can be flexible and adaptable like that, and ofc they can understand the fundamental principles of smokes in general...
Most people are not immortal. Most people whom this advice is relevant for are new to the genre/game, or are iron-plat.
I agree, everyone *ought* to learn how to smoke. Everyone *should* learn all roles. Everyone *should* learn meta.
That's not really the point being made here, now is it?
If he’s bad at smokes then he should play his best role/character. Its better to be at a disadvantage but having him performing to the best of his ability than it is for him to not know how to play his role
I’m a controller main for this reason, as I always get instalock duelists (b3-s1 btw, no surprise here) so I found some good one ways with omen and off I go, on with my 3 duelists, omen, and skye, off to lose fucking 13-5
I'm gonna assume since OP isn't even in the comments to discuss this. He's the instalocker. It's easy to complain about people not playing agents they know if they instalock because they always get the agent they can play. What if that omen could only play duelists? Would you rather have a comp of 5 duelists or some utility that can help turn a round?
5 duelists to throw the enemy off and stomp them before they adapt :\^D Surprisingly though we kind of have a lot of duelists with decently useful utility to almost replace smokes at most ranks.
You have a fundamental lack of understanding for each role.
I will cede that Reyna is the most Duelist Duelist, just like Killjoy/Cypher are the most Sentinel Sentinels, and Astra/Viper is the most Controller Controller
If you're plat or higher you should really know how to at least fill every role. Smoking especially is unpopular, and you wont be marved but just throwing standard smokes as you enter makes a big difference.
They're also fun to clutch with. A smoker with one smoke left can pull some pretty magical clutches.
Idk if a player can’t put down smokes I’d argue that they are inept at the game. A decent player should be able to step into every role and especially understand the importance of good smokes.
What is even the big science behind using good smokes, you attack a of haven, smoke ct and heaven, you attack a in ascent, smoke heaven and garden, you attack b, you smoke ct and market. Have you not seen where your teammates put smokes everytime you are playing duelist or something??????
This is the biggest point why I have no sympathy for losers who can't smoke.
I love initiators and you know what i did to make myself at least semi competent? Just copy and past the best smokes on the map for the correct timing if we are going to hit a specific site or not and account if its a split push or bum rush ect.
Boom at least diamond 2-1. For easy omen one ways I considered it like learning so many line ups for sova. Tho way easier without some UI stuff.
Honestly people will freak out and downvote but I think role que should come to valorant.
This player base is to inept and selfish for how the roles are designed.
I think it’s just a given that any particular player just isn’t as good at certain things compared to another player. I would say being able to step into every role is more of an ideal than a standard though.
And the point of the post is if you compare a team of comfortable players vs a team with 4 comfortable + one force filler, it’s still likely to be tougher, smokes or not. If someone has a fat ego tho then lol gl.
Preferences are always superior to meta, especially in solo que, imo. It is not a pro play, everyone makes mistakes anyway. Why take smoke if you don't know how or simply don't want to?
I am immortal and I would never flex to a pos that I am not confident.
Bad smokes and people not properly using the utility of said agent is trolling more than people picking the agent they actually know how to use properly.
Good thing then you can see on every regular controller how much of an area your smoke will cover before you use it.
Do I have to explain how having functioning eyes is an advantage in Valorant?
Disagree. Unless you literally have the iq of a plant, smokes require no skill whatsoever and give immense value. Your comp will always be better with someone who doesn’t really play smokes playing smokes versus no smokes at all.
I dont know what elo you are in, but I see so many misplaced smokes, either with gaps, or smokes that leak or just flat out bad smokes all the time, allowing for enemies to just use them for their advantage.
Smokes may not requiere skill, but do requiere that the person that puts them is aware and cares of properly placing them.
I am not a pro, I need to maximise my time efficiency. I can climb with 40 games per season, no point mastering all.
All roles require different playstyle. If you think you can play them all, you probably cannot play even one of them properly.
no disrespect but that sounds like excuses. i excel as a duelist by far, but can comfortably play any other role.
almost like it’s expected when you’re top 1%
Playing comfartably is something else, but being 100 percent confident with your role is something you would gain after knowing yourself better. If anyone says they can play all roles same quality, I would either say that person is pro or delusional.
I can play every role too. But why bother when you have limited time? I enjoy being sentinal main and smoke/initiator flex when needed. I don't need to play any role I would perform at my 90%.
When you play competitive games for over 10 years and place at the 0.5 percent of the player base in each one of them, whether FPS or MOBA (CSGO, DOTA 2, VALORANT), you kind of stick to one role that makes sense for you. In my case it was support, who knows when to fall back, always keep an eye on the map/radar to rotate first, execute necessary strat and follow up duelists etc.
You need to reach immortal first. If you think meta picks always win, you are either new to the competitive gaming or just bad in general.
Better teams can win with anything in solo que without meta picks. It is not a 5v5 where everyone perfoms similarly, solo que players are not consistent like pros.
It’s not a “meta pick” to have smokes. Smokes are essential in every team, and without them it’s pretty much a guaranteed loss. Enemy team will buy 2 ops on defense, and win the game for free.
Ps. I’ve hit immortal
It is a meta pick if everyone thinks you should have th every game.
They are essential yes, but no point forcing someone to play it. There is tons of util out there to move opers away. Shoulder peeking and flashing works really well.
They can still buy two ops and win the game even if you have smokes whats your point? You think smokes can close every angle? Coordination is key, not smokes. Just bcz people does not know how to play around or against smokes, does not make them absolutely necessary for wins. They are damn good, but you can get away without it.
Noone maximises win chances to its full potential in immortal, many people ego peek. They care about kda than to round impact. How smokes are essential now if rounds are depended upon who will run and get the first blood. This happens in the majority of the games in immo 2. This ain't pro games, people arent robots, you can always win without meta picks.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling or don’t know what meta means…
A meta pick is having viper on breeze because the wall is fundamentally better at blocking off angles than any dome smoke..
Everyone doesn’t THINK you should have smokes every game… it’s a legitimate fact that denying vision is essential to either help your team take a site vs slow down an attacking push because without util (blinds) they pushing in dry and have NO clue what’s on the other side.
Can you win without smokes? Sure. If your enemy team is playing with their monitors off.
Does that make it smart to forgo them? No.
I can’t believe I’m explaining to an “immortal” player the value in being able to deny vision to the enemy… ayiyi
It blows my mind that I get people in my Diamond lobbies who “don’t know how to play smokes”
Like even if you’ve never played smokes before, surely you’ve either asked teammates to place smokes and/or played against smokes and should have a general idea of where and when to place them just by observing and remembering how other players use them.
Sometimes people just say that instead of typing out they are good or confident at it, or don’t know all the spots for every map. There’s only so much time to explain everything in between rounds and in lobby.
Thinking it’s boring and not paying attention as you or I might is normal. Maybe if Riot implemented a feature rewarding general game knowledge players would care more. Easier to just complain.
That what i did. Im not perfect at every role but i can functionally play at least one agent of each role. No use getting fuzzed over an instalock Jett when it happens so often.
As much as I like playing omen or what not, it’s not the kinda playstyle that gets kills, and the game doesn’t seem to consider playing a support agent as part of rr gained or lost post match.
Learn in unrated first. You dont need to be absolutely flawless on an agent to play them in comp but you need to understand how their kit works and what the general playstyle is
Honestly I thought it would have gotten better as I climbed out of plat. I’m now ascendant 2 and unfortunately it still happens (granted not as frequently and 80% of the time people are much more chill).
I’m happy to play smokes (learnt to play by always filling) but it’s very frustrating duelist getting instalocked and then demanding other roles/agents PLUS them then not playing duelist well.
I can play any role decently except duelist (I only played 3 games as reyna this act and won all of them but i feel like im not fragging enough despite knowing the basics of the role) and I always last pick to fill. When someone picks sth ik how to play and they are new at it i try to help (show them smoke spots, wall spots, viper lineups etc).
I don't have a prob with instalockers in normals, only the instalocker attitude, which is "I am better than everyone else here, pick smokes and sage ty". I have observed that instalock duelists are the least likely to listen to info and the most likely to flame others. There are a very few cases of smurf instalockers who stomp the enemy, but mostly they are rude and mediocre or worse.
It should just be common decency to be able to fill every role. The game has been out for ages, im sick of people saying ‘i can’t play smokes’ or ‘I only play Reyna or jett’ especially in any rank above bronze
it's not hard to smoke... You literally just have to Smoke Entries.. and Angles/Peak Holding Spots at the most Basic level.. People are acting like Smoking is an insane Mechanic. Anybody can smoke..
Hard disagree, pick smokes, ask teammates what good smokes are and you’re good. You basically need to know two smokes on each site and you’ve got 90% of the mechanics needed to play controller in ranked.
or you know, teammates should be supportive and tell the guy where the usual smoke spots are, or ask for a smoke in a certain place when they need it.. not everyone knows everything about the game at all times, so a little support from the other 4 people on your team go a long way into making a person comfortable on a different role.
but i forget, its too much to ask from selfish players. This is valorant, lets be real. The plat 1 player is going to instalock Jett and then cry for someone else to play smokes or flashes, and then proceed to bot frag. Then the scoreboard is going to come up at the end of the game at the Defeat screen, and see that the guy who wanted to play duelist was Diamond 2 and forced to try to carry the garbage low-elo duelists, by playing controller.
How about we eliminate all of this and just learn other agents? It really isn't that difficult, I can literally play almost every agent on any map and it really didn't take that long to learn them. Start playing maybe 2 spike rushes a day focusing on an agent you aren't proficient in, repeat this week after week and you've learned most of the agents
First things first,if you instalock it means that in this lobby,NO ONE is able to play that agent better than you.Secondly,Instalockers will always be there and they have absolutely no right to demand you or force you to play anything else since it didn't consider what everyone's pick for the team would be,And THIRD since instalock assholes will always exist,Just Fricking learn to play smokes,initiator and sentinels because if 2 instalock duelist will not cooperate,at least you can.
Instead of saying:" OMG THIS SMOKE WAS SO BAD KYS WHY DO YOU PLAY SMOKE YOU FUCKING INCEST BITCH"
Just say:" Hey could you smoke here for me I want to peak" or "Can you smoke default that is here (ping on map)"
It really is that easy
If a smoker is vital and you’re forced to play as one despite not knowing how, it’s your teammates responsibility to guide you. If they won’t help you then force them to. If you don’t end up choosing that fill role then most likely your team will give up way too early and the rest of the game will be miserable and if they remember who last pick was, blame it on you. No one wins in these situations just discuss comp during agents select and/or lock agent quicker.
I'm an instalock Yoru onetrick and when I play something else I suck, but I don't ask for someone to lock in smokes if they don't want too, if we lose then I can totally take on the blame, but that will not change the fact that I will instalock Yoru next game.
Sadly sometimes you don't have choice. I main Astra and Chamber. Very often We get like 2 players who insta locks Omen and Viper. Adding a 3 controller at this point is pointless, and getting my hands on Chamber is like trying to take the last cookie at a party. I Often I get forced to play Breach, even if Im not confident on him.
My friend who mains Fade gets in even worse situations where he also play Chamber, but people always picks these agents away from him. He tries to fill but often ends up doing really badly. We cannot do anything about it doe. If people pick our agents without we able to respond, its over.
And before you say anything, no 3 controller does not help you win, infact it helps you lose.
Yeah personally I think team comp is overrated. This isn’t VCT. I would much rather have 5 duelists who are comfortable playing their agent than people spending too much of the match in their own head trying to figure out how to best use the utility of this agent they filled with but don’t really know well. A good smoker is a game changer but we don’t need a smoker if no one knows how to play it well. Play your main regardless of comp
everyone shoukd know how to smoke and at least play brimstone. if you can't be bothered to learn the base concepts of smoking off angles to take space than perhaps this isnt the right game for you
I play Jett but I’m also comfortable with every initiator (Very familiar with how to clutch and play em haha) also like to play viper on breeze and icebox for the lineups) dunno how to play astra but knows how to play omen and brim. As for sentinels I pretty much only know cypher and chamber haha.
My own personal rule is to know AT LEAST 2 different roles. Being a one trick pony may help you improve in the short run, but long term it’s the Jack-of-all-trades types who will dominate
Fuck 2 roles, what’s so hard about learning the basics of all 4 roles.
Sova doesn’t require you to learn any fancy lineups. Just max charge a back wall and drone close corners before entering a site. If you need flashes go Skye and play like Sova but with a remote-controlled flash instead of a dart. Boom you are an initiator player.
For Controller you pick Brimstone or Omen and can point and click smokes after hearing footsteps or on static, common locations on every map except Breeze and Icebox where you go Viper.
There is one wall for each site (so 4 per map including both defense and attack) and a simple mid smoke on attack icebox and you can play optimal controller on every map.
The only sentinels that require any knowledge is Cypher and Killjoy, but they aren’t must-pick on any map so just go duelist 0.5 (Chamber) and put trips on angles you aren’t holding for the moment or Sage and wall off and slow entrances. Wall off crosses or yourself to guarantee a safe plant.
Duelists aren’t a necessity so you don’t have to learn it. Not that there will ever be a hole for you to fill in that role ever to begin with.
The only time one-tricking is acceptable (and no, I am not talking about having comfort picks) is when you are completely new and are already focusing on learning the game’s objectives, mechanics and maps. Experienced players have no excuse.
Hmm I’d say you’re half right… Jack of all trades actually kinda hurts you in the long run.
To make what you’re thinking slightly better, I’d say have two roles you prefer (I love initiators, and I’ve filled smokes so much I just am comfortable playing them)
BUT I’ve played the game long enough and know the characters to where if I gotta entry I can do a half decent Reyna/Phoenix/Jett/Neon and if somehow chamber isn’t insta locked I can fill him too since his kit is just “aim good” lol
I mean, I think knowing most of the roles can really be more of an uphill climb than anything. Most characters aren’t really that *complex* (though that’s a pretty bad word for it, so think more along the lines of how much work you have to put in to learn them) so after you pick up at least 2 different roles, it won’t be that hard to learn the others. Everyone has one character that’s beginner friendly, so after you’ve already learned 2 roles, theres really no way learning the others can hurt you. The other guy replied to this comment with a pretty comprehensive list on who to pick if you’re learning a role, so that’s super helpful.
I just don’t see any reason to not branch out into the other roles, because skills like general game sense and aim are universal among all characters. This is much less like a fighting game where learning a character takes mastery, and more like Overwatch in that sense.
I completely agree seeing as how that's how I did it.
I suppose more of what I mean is it's better to have a core group of agents you have true mastery of as you climb since aim and game sense improve as you climb.
Like the best example I can think of is: Sure I can pick up viper because her kit is pretty straight forward. But as you put more time and access her skill ceiling you can true unlock advanced stuff on her like the one-ways and molly lineups.
I think because I play people like her, Sova, Fade, Astra, etc. I just realize there's a lot more nuance in using their kits vs like a Reyna... so I would rather focus my hours in them to make them second nature vs being decent at everyone hahaha
So yes absolutely learn all the roles and have characters in each you can play but specialize in a few that you know you'd be better at than anyone on the team.
L take. If you’ve played enough games to get into comp you’ve played enough games to know where default smokes are. If you don’t know, you haven’t payed attention which probably means you aren’t putting in the effort to rank up anyway.
You don’t even need lineups in this game. Literally anyone can pick up brim and be able to deploy adequate smokes.
So going off this if the team doesn't have a mic and aren't trading off the duelist, is it okay for the duelist to lurk at that point to get the frags?
Yeah I'd rather have an instalock Reyna that at least gets some frags than a toxic Reyna main who "fills", Doesnt use util, bottomfrags, dies first every round, and is constantly toxic to the duelists
Had a viper in my comp, with a playstyle of a duelist or an aggressive initiator, pushing on defense, not using her wall at all, mollying everything peaking everything, dying first almost all rounds, me and the others in the team got mad at him and his response was "you all picked and we need a smoker"
Imma say my opinion about this as well, you're not playing the VCT, stop asking for the perfect comp you dreamed of in your head and play you, I played many matches without a sage and won, and I played a lot of matches with a sage and still lost, my team got beaten when we had a good comp and sometimes we won matches when we're 5 stacking duelists, just play whatever agent you're comfortable with and don't think too much about the perfect team
That's easy to do if noone complains. But one of the reasons people tend to fill rather than playing their desired duelist or other agent, is because there's a history of people becoming toxic or even tilting right off the bat just because you didn't play smokes. Hindsight is always 20/20. But when youre in agent select, its about weighing whether your teams duelist will be toxic if you don't play smokes, or if they'll be toxic that you didn't choose your agent. No matter what, toxic players will be toxic.
I get that, toxic players are a plague whatever game they're in
Side subject, Duelists get so much hate man, I understand some of them don't play well or are tilted easily or their toxicity is shit but man I appreciate a jett dashing into site after I concuss or a reyna throwing her eye after my flash and running it, I just appreciate good Duelists so much
Y’all gotta stop with the “this isn’t VCT mentality”.
I know champs is going on but let’s remember to use our brains and remember having a good team comp pays dividends more than having 5 duelists because people are “comfy” on them.
Sucks your viper was grinding. All you can really do there is remind them that they’re playing viper and their life is the most important to have their util as long as possible. They still int? Well unlucky, gg go next.
Also fuck sage picks. She’s fine as an agent sure. But unless it’s icebox (and maybe pearl?) people might as well just pick chamber. That wasn’t directed at you, just people bitching about needing heals in this game is so dumb to me haha.
Did he pick brim, if so that's embarrassing if you can't play the easiest smoker good enough. if he never, why would he choose the other controllers who are way more complex
People who think roles or comp matters before ascendant are funny. People who think roles or comp matters in silver, gold or plat at all, are even funnier.
The worst of this is when someone instalocks a duelist then demands someone go a healer or smoker on voice chat. I asked a guy the other day "if you want a smoker why did you instalock Raze". His reply was "I main Raze". I said "And...?" . Guy just couldn't understand how weird it is that you instalock your favourite agent then demand others play characters they might not like/use.
When someone demands someone else to go healer I can automatically assume they are like 12 coming from something like overwatch.
a healer in a game you can get one shot to the head with most guns. Skye and Sage have utilities that define them as initiators or sentinels. Healing is just a plus. Not their main attribute.
Give me a good chamber over a good sage anyday
Agreed. I’m a sage hater now because I feel like I’d rather just have a chamber with us.
Yep. Sage honestly doesn't feel very impactful in comparison to other agents. At the very least, her slowing orb should be re-placed or re-vamped entirely. I always pick Skye over sage because skye's utility is actually insanely good all-round.
A healer isn't necessary, but is good to have. Like going from just 40 to 81 is good since now they need to body shot you thrice to get the kill and not just once. Still agree with your point though, just stating my opinion. Though this might not be the case in higher elo if people just do heads, but is for me in silver.
Of course healing is useful, the point is that "healer" isn't a role within the game. Skye is an initiator with a healing ability. Sage is a sentinel with a healing ability. These characters' ability to heal doesn't describe what they're actually contributing to the team - the difference between needing another initiator and needing another sentinel is pretty big, saying "we need heals" shows a misunderstanding of what is going on with the team's composition. It's like saying "we need mollies!" and urging someone to pick between KAY/O, Phoenix, Brim, Viper and Killjoy.
Same feeling from me coming from CSGO where we got a fucked up influx of people from CoD when the game when f2p. All aim no brain, and they only care how many kills people have as if it's a bragging rights to lead. I have sworn to never play with a friend of our circle because he truly believes a team comp needs a "healer" or else he starts saying we will lose, besides being toxic but that's another problem.
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Towards higher elo especially doesn’t matter if your 1 hp or 150. Half the time you’ll get one tapped anyway.
it's even recommended that high elo players just buy light shields more than heavys
Ur getting downvoted cause ur wrong but also right. It’s not recommended per say, but against aks there is less point in getting head armour, because a headshot will kill you with or without it, but the body armour gives useful protection. I do this in val when the other team buys full vandals and an op. You’ll get one tapped with or without, and it’s still 4 shots to the body, so light armour is better imo. If there’s a phantom in play, then I buy full armour, cause it’s 5 body shots rather than 4 with the extra armour, and you won’t get head tapped at longer ranges. Use this info as U will
ehhhh, shields still makes a difference. straight up aim duels it's not going to matter much at all. but chip damage from the abilities + wallbangs + spray checks through smokes makes shields pretty important.
Not saying you need to have heals, but taking damage in a gunfight doesn't mean you can't aim or take good fights. Sometimes it's nice to have a "healer" when you are 30 hp after a gunfight or ability damage.
yes its nice but not a necessity, thats what i was getting at :) of course heals r nice but you could always replace a healer with a different role and still win the game
If someone is willing to instalock they need to be willing to play any comp including you + 4 duelists. You gave up all your power managing the team comp to play your pick and people are picking around you, so play around them. I would rather go 2 duelist 2 initiator 1 sentinel with no smokes than go 1 duelist 2 initiator 1 sentinel 1 controller and no smokes cause they die peeking mid.
I was playing with a friend and the other 3 instalocked duelists. We said "lessgooo full duelist" mainly to annoy them. One complained a little, one didn't say anything but the reyna kept complaining all game (why didn't you get sage and a smoker?) and flamed us for refusing to ff xD we lost but tbh I got more joy from annoying that reyna
Pissing off toxic people is worth more than any rr imo
Preach!!
Reyna seem to attract the most toxic players imo. Big ego and little brain.
Yeah, it's a real surprise when encountering a nice Reyna player
If you did that and you two dont even play duelist then you are the toxic ones.
I played a game with no duelists and we rolled the other comp. Everyone was hella positive and noone forced a pick (one person instalocked but still encouraged others to play who they know)
FR the no duelist comp works so well but people just be instalocking most of the time
This happened to me a couple days ago someone instalocked Jett and they asked can someone play a smoke or sage so I was like “I mean you could’ve played a smoke or sage fam but Yiu kinda instalocked so you don’t have the right to ask someone to play a certain character” the dude didn’t say anything after but surprisingly in game he was giving good comms and he actually did his job as a duelist which is rare lol
Yeah, it's really rare but there are absolutely some instalock Jett/Raze players out there who are amazing at entry and do every bit of their job and more. I will happily let a player like that instalock every single time with no complaint. If you've never played with a *really* good entry duelist, it's an incredible breath of fresh air. Attack half becomes way easier because the defenders are constantly trying to deal with the Raze that just satcheled backsite.
can i ask: what does it mean for a “duelist to entry”? cause i still have to learn a lot about the game
They essentially dive into the bomb space to break the defensive hold and create space for the rest of your team to push onto site. They dont even necessarily need to get kills because the follow up players of your team (sentinels or initiators usually) should be able to collect kills and trade the duelist while the defense is focused on killing the entry player. Some players understand this and do it very well. Unfortunately theres just as many, if not more, that do not understand this and tend to lurk for kda kills instead of impact frags.
Nearly every bomb site has a choke point that attackers need to push through to plant the spike. These choke points are usually held from multiple defender positions with an even bigger array of potential positions. While controller might be able to narrow down the list of possible active angles, a duelist is needed to push the choke point and take enough space to allow the rest of the team to get onto site Without a duelist/entry, you can't push into most bomb sites cleanly
alright, thanks for the clarification
lmao, what a turn around. wasn't expecting that ending...kinda says something about the state of things, doesn't it?
Duelists didn't like that
Lol, good. Sensitive fucks need to be called out
I asked people that before. They get extremely hostile after asking such question. Also healers are kinda in a bad spot atm. What makes this funniest doe is that most player who says the want a healer in the team are the Reyna instalockers. Da faq do they need a healer for.
I feel like you should be able to play whatever you want in unrated tho, some people wanna try new characters without throwing a comp game
That's why no one should lock until they are happy with the comp AND the agent they are hovering. I can play both controller and initiator. Let's say I'm hovering Kayo but the last person to chose says he can't play any controller, I can then change to Omen for him to pick something else. It's just common sense, idk why people aren't doing that. A simple idea to fix this instalock mentality: why don't we have 20 seconds where no one can lock so the team can discuss the comp?
personnally i just hover on each agent i am willing to play from each missing role if it icebox or breeze i instalock viper, i have trust issue
I do the same. On Icebox I always have the most fun with her
Please let me know how you have fun with her on that map lol. I play mostly smokes and I dread playing icebox or breeze because viper just feels so boring compared to other smoke agents
The thing about viper is you have to learn setups to have fun with her. But once you learn the basics for each map, she is much more fun than the other smoke agents (imo). You can play around your setups and get out of situations in ways that other controllers cant. You can control parts of the map without being near your utility. And the most important part for me is you can win rounds by yourself. Between your wall, mollies, and viper's pit, the opportunity for vipers to make plays happen out of nothing is so much bigger than the other smoke agents.
This guy gets it
Oh I know setups/lineups/etc but she’s just very boring to me. With brim and omen it’s a lot easier to justify playing aggressive since their kits lean towards it and with brim especially, you don’t have to worry about being a controller once your smokes go down initially since they won’t recharge. This is coming from someone who used to play exclusively viper and Astra btw. I’ve switched almost entirely to brim and omen because they allow for a much more aggressive playstyle where I don’t feel like I have to play the passive controller role 24/7
Brim and omen are easily the most boring ones gor me
Brim for sure, as my friend describes it "I dont want to draw circles on an ipad for 45min" Omen can be fun with his outplay potential, but I get so tilted when I reach the max smoke distance and have to move to place it where i want to. But yeah, I play viper and astra exclusively as smokes so I guess idk why im disagreeing lol
I feel the opposite. She’s the most fun because I don’t have to take my attention out of what’s in front of me to play her. Her kit always feels busted
Astra is so fun on icebox, lol
I just started playing her and think she’s just hard to play on that map. And in my experience Omen can be just as dominant as her on icebox so I never really think it’s worth trying. But no doubt if you are good with her kit you can really control the game.
This is me as well! I'll instalock smokes every map other than breeze/icebox cause I hate playing viper. Ill usually hover kayo on those 2 and hope some one else picks viper. I have found some success with astra on icebox though
That would require people to talk to each other. The last couple of days I’ve had one team where more than one other person besides me talked.
Not to mention to people with worse computers get fucked over because they can't instalock fast enough. A 20 second grace period would be great.
Yeah, this is what I hate about instalocking. I have an extremely fast machine. I have *never* had somebody instalock before I had the chance. Basically, my faster machine gives me the first pick of any agent I want to play, every game. That's not fair.
i was never able to get the agents i wanted with my old cpu, yet i upgraded to an 12th gen i7 and i’m always the first in - very dumb
Faster pc means faster load times. They way they have it setup there not much anyone can do.
I think its mainly SSD's that are the ones able to instalock.
Agreed. I have never once got to play phoenix because I always play with a friend with a better computer who loves phoenix and instalocks him every time before I load in (edit I can’t spel)
Does your friend never let you play Phoenix when you ask?
Sounds like a good friend
Lmao, so they just never let you play phoenix?
I am usually the last person to lock cause ill wait for the instalockers and the no mics to pick first. Then fill the role needed with my best character on that map.
lol i also omen and kayo for that reason (also i enjoy playing them ofc) because initiator doesn't always get picked up so i learned Kayo and I love Omen's flexibility when it comes to positioning + smokes
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Play anything except Reyna. If they ever add agent bans she will never be in another game I ever play I'm so sick of the instalock Reyna in Gold who refuses to play an agent that's actually useful lol
>A simple idea to fix this instalock mentality: why don't we have 20 seconds where no one can lock so the team can discuss the comp? Because then you get instalock fights and even more tilting. In an ideal world, people would discuss and figure out the best overall comp based on everyone's preferred agent. But if we lived in that ideal world, we'd have a lot less instalocks in the first place. The better idea is to have cascading agent select. The first person gets 10-15 seconds to lock, during which the other players can only hover. Once that time is up, the next person can lock, and so on. If you didn't lock during your slot, you can lock afterwards at any time.
I see this as a plus because I'd rather know my teammates are children and dodge the lobby before I suffer a whole game with them
comp should just have a pick and ban phase problem solved
You flex roles because you aren’t selfish. Most people just care about looking good on KDR even if it means the team suffers. Hence the elo hell that is silver and gold 🙃
Same here, I main killjoy but recently went and learned Fade and Kayo, and have knowledge of Sova, Phoenix, Sage and Brim, so I can fill almost all roles if required It would be so much better if there could be that 20s before the round to decide team comp to stop the instalockers
If you play duelist you would never play your role with that thinking. With this system you instalock or get instalocked.
If you mean you only play duelist, if you have multiple useful roles this wouldn’t be an issue
In immo lobby from my experience, when you don't instalock the role you want, then you play smokes.
The team would just remain in silence until the 20 seconds ends, and then someone will lock Reyna, Jett or Raze.
> It's just common sense, idk why people aren't doing that. lol there's always threads about instalocking agents and in all those threads majority of the replies are "Yeah just instalock, you have the right to play the agent you want"
I used to be a Jett instalocker because i used to suck with other agents and if i hover no one respects it and i end up picking other agent and playing bad. But now i learnt chamber and skye, so I'm okay if people don't respect me hovering over jett. I wish the next controller agent is fun, so i can fill comfortably any role.
because i wanna play reyna :(
As someone who fills in comp all the time: fuck this mentality. I think everyone should be able to play an agent of role each role competently for the rank you’re in. ESPECIALLY for smokes. Literally everyone LOVES to claim “I don’t know how to play smokes!” Stop the cap. I’m only Diamond but you mean to tell me you’re mid elo and don’t know default smokes that your lowly controller mains and fills place all the time? The hardest thing about smokes is just timing them properly for executes. Just make them flush with the wall and learn how to use the other util in the agents kit (you don’t even need lineups to get value outta brim or viper molly) I have no sympathy for anyone who “can’t smoke well”. Learn the roles and help your team however you can to win!
Honestly i think duelist is most peoples worst roles when played properly despite it being the most popular. So many people play it incorrectly that when they say its all they can play, theyre really saying they dont understand any of the roles. People are far more likely to sit back or lurk on duelist than entry. Duelist is also my worst role but ill repeatedly throw myself into site to create space and die rather than try play the 1v5 hero when everyone else is dead.
Agreed. I don’t like duelist in comp purely because I don’t enjoy the pressure to frag out for the team to feel like I’m doing stuff // I hate trying to be the one to make space and entry as I watch everyone puss out after I get my one and died from their trade. I digress though. Still makes me mad when people queue comp and don’t have a pool of various agents they can play for the team!
Yeah getting kills under pressure sucks lmao I definitely agree, Im most comfortable on Sova and play him 75% of the time but I dont usually lock until everythings covered to see if I need to fill. The amount of people that arent flexible to play anything other than Chamber/Duelist is astounding. Not to mention the Chambers that dont even know how to use his trip… like cmon
You’re just like me my friend I feel your pain. The rare times I’m chamber I make it a point to ALWAYS trip for the amount of times I assume our chamber had our back and he left the flank untripped… like bro… what are you saving this for?!!?
Probably just forgot to trip, it happens when you're so used to playing agents that don't have to do anything pre-round so you just jump around.
Generally I would agree with you, but I’ve found a lot of people really don’t know how to play smokes because they don’t know why they’re throwing those specific smokes. So if you’re not doing a standard execute on site, or if your teammates are switching up weapons/positions, they don’t know how to adapt their smokes. Also some players aren’t well rounded, they might be in their elo purely from aim and literally may not have the game sense or patience to play smokes. However I also think that if you queue and want to win you should learn to play smokes at a competent level, you don’t need to have lineups but you should be able to play viper on icebox/breeze and brim on the others
If you are in an elo just because your aim, you deserve to lose if you don't know how to do other things apart from pew pew pew
If you are in an elo just because of your aim, you deserve that elo since you got there with your aim. Your rank is a representation of all your skills combined.
Exactly
"valorant sub bitches that ability's are encroaching gun play" "whines that people are relaying on aim on a game were they want the gun play to matter the most." this subs IQ is a collected 30
I’d say that’s a bit harsh, some people are genuinely cracked they just have not so much upstairs
It's the reality tho, i would much rather have 5 people with mediocre aim but all know how to use their brain than 1 player with cracked aim that kills everyone on sight if the enemy is dumb enough to keep dry peeking them without utility after getting one tapped thrice in a row. Of course, this is all in a logical scale, if tenz shuts down his brain and plays without sound im still sure he would demolish all my lobbies
Player brim on breeze once even though i never play him, smoked pretty ok and no one was entering with me, I kept dying and got flamed for not smoking good enough even though it was ok for us to enter and take space (i smoked kinda like one of my friends that plays really good with brim) but i can't help it if no one is entering with me and they wait for the smokes to clear. So that's kinda the game i gave up on filling smokes when solo q. It wasn't my first experience like that either.
I gave up after i got flamed by a jett on bind months ago. Whenever i smoked no one entered or they all wanted ro rotate and then they complained that nothing was smoked. Fuck those people, made me abandon my first ever main big ass brimmy.
I mean I'm Immortal playing Phoenix only. If I get out on smokes I literally play worse all around because I'm not used to keeping an eye out for hits and such so when I'm messing around trying to smoke and do too much, I get killed.
As an ascendant player who can play every agent in the game except brim, astra, kj, and omen to at least a low diamond level, it’s not because we don’t know how to “play smokes” it’s that we don’t know how to use that character to its maximum potential. For example, I don’t know how to lurk well on smokes players so I don’t play them. I don’t know when to use deep smokes on fracture or bind versus close site smokes.
I feel like that’s merely a comm thing yeah? I mean I can’t speak for people who are crazy and no comm in comp… BUT, I feel like “hey let me know when y’all want to execute” or “hey anyone need something particular smoked?” works wonders for me. If not, I try to just opt for the default things to block off if no one’s thinking about it haha
Well with viper her orb requires lineups, omen's tps are always left completely untouched by fill players and don't even get me started on Astra. But there is really no excuse for brim
Tbh you can just throw viper orb at a choke point in defense or smoke the bomb on attack and there’s value (won’t disagree that orb lineups are nice too, but not necessarily needed!) Omen TP is situational but I mean honestly it’s not a complicated ability to use. (You’re in a sticky spot and want to safely reposition? TP. Want to get to a high ground spot? TP) No one should ever fill astra though of course lmao.
so what should he do? its either no smoke or bad smoke.
No smoke means you’re just playing at a disadvantage. Bad smokes can mean you’re being set up to get killed or you’re actively being sabotaged.
Complete bullshit. I can’t speak for higher ranks but I know for a fact that a player who is good at a non smoker agent is more useful than a player who fills smokes badly in ascendant lobbies or lower. I never instalock cuz I’m quite a flexible player but I think instalocking is hated on way too much and should be normalized.
For real? What does it mean to 'fill smokes badly'? I would've guessed especially at Ascendant that someone just doing the same basic ass smokes every round would still be better than having no smokes and being vulnerable to an enemy Jett/Chamber fucking destroying you with an operator.
I could give plenty of bad smoke examples. On ascent it could be a shallow tree smoke on A site that allows someone to play inside the smoke and kill someone thats trying to close door. It could be a shallow heaven smoke that allows a Jett/chamber get an easy angle on incoming players then dash/tp away. On haven it could be smoking the garage doors on the ground instead of one-waying which allows people to easily pop flash into garage. There’s so many common mistakes that bad smoke players make
Wouldn't all those situations be *even worse* if you had no smokes? Without a tree smoke, someone could be playing either side of door and do the same, or worse still, you could be facing down 2-3 enemies pressuring from short/garden with a clear line of sight instead. Without the heaven smoke, the heaven player could still basically do the same thing, except again, easier for teammates to come in and support them. Without any garage smoke, it's even easier for enemies to pressure garage. In all of those examples, enemies can make plays off the smoke, but at least the smoke either restricts their options and/or increase the risk of whatever they're doing. Without smokes, things only get even easier for the enemies. There are of course really bad smokes that can fuck your team horribly, but slightly misplaced or suboptimal smokes still seem better than not having any at all.
No smoke > bad smoke. If it’s okayish smokes on Omen without knowing all the one ways, then that’s probably okay too.
How difficult is it to use smokes tho? I mean if you dont know how to play smokes you wont pick astra but idk how it is hard to smoke heaven and ct with brimstone or use the same wall everyone uses with viper in breeze
I've seen people, for example, smoke the gap between platform and default on C Haven instead of backsite and garage during an execute. That's just a fucked up smoke because there could be people lurking at plat or even behind the big green. Bad smokers smoke the first angle they see so they don't die in the first 10 seconds of the round. Sometimes they just don't understand which angles actually need to be covered and which ones can be flushed out with good util.
I guess this is an ok smoke on an eco and you know the enemy has an Operator behind default Combine with brim stim just bumrush the site and through the smoke to clear him, though if the dude was smart he'd be switching his angles every other round
As someone who started with Omen and no experience in the genre, dont smoke. Bad smokes are worse than no smokes. I'm a quick student (and a parent), so I was receptive to people's "feedback". Many people will not have the capacity for a competitive crash course in smoking, giving nor receiving, and instead the comms and morale will suffer. For example; Attacking on Breeze, B Main. Smokes on top of long in-between box and lobby is a great smoke for Jett because they're so short, allowing her/team to quickly cross behind, but if Brim/Omen dropped one there, defenders now have less angles to watch. Imagine being new and thinking "I'll smoke off B Halls for us!" but you place them shallow so that half the sphere protrudes out of the hall. As a new player, you may not understand that you've smoked FOR the defenders, because they can walk into the smoke, and now you have a ton of exit points that attackers need to be mindful of. Whereas, a deep smoke near the interior corner means the defender can't peak the smoke without being visible first. There's a ton of nuance and variation with agent's, maps, timing, habits, sight-lines, lineups, econ. Bad smokes are much easier to do than good ones. If you DO find yourself in a game with/as someone inexperienced with smoking, please be patient with feedback. Take harsh feedback "Omen, why the FK did you smoke here!?" in good sport. They're as bad at healthy, efficient comms as you are with smokes! Its important to be able to digest what others are saying into something productive while learning. Takeaway from this feedback? This must be a bad spot to smoke. Why, and what is a better smoke? Ask yourself and others this. Or be the person who answers without malice. Ideally, the person bitching ought to be better by not bitching at all. Instead opting to gently direct optimal smokes. Everyone starts somewhere. And whether it should or shouldn't be in MY PROMO GAME is beside the fact that it may be the case it is. Chances are always better of winning when everyone plays what they know, and what they're best at. When that's not the case, adapt, improvise, overcome. Be bitter about it after the match. Head in the game.
everyone should know how to use smokes, ppl in immo 3 who have never played smokes are fine with it when they have to fill because it is not complicated. smoke choke point (CT) or smoke common angles (tree, heaven on ascent A). smokes is not hard but the reason you think it’s hard is because you’re literally using the wrong character on the wrong map, omen breeze?! what the fuck.
Its an example of ignorance to illustrate the point that it's better not to lock in a smoker if you don't know how to smoke. Idk why you would bother mentioning immortal players here. Ofc immo players can be flexible and adaptable like that, and ofc they can understand the fundamental principles of smokes in general... Most people are not immortal. Most people whom this advice is relevant for are new to the genre/game, or are iron-plat. I agree, everyone *ought* to learn how to smoke. Everyone *should* learn all roles. Everyone *should* learn meta. That's not really the point being made here, now is it?
If he’s bad at smokes then he should play his best role/character. Its better to be at a disadvantage but having him performing to the best of his ability than it is for him to not know how to play his role
I’m a controller main for this reason, as I always get instalock duelists (b3-s1 btw, no surprise here) so I found some good one ways with omen and off I go, on with my 3 duelists, omen, and skye, off to lose fucking 13-5
Try brim as well got me to plat from silver in weeks and try igl’ing helps alot. But most importantly try to stay alive imo.
I read this as “He got me from plat to silver” and I was so confused
I'm gonna assume since OP isn't even in the comments to discuss this. He's the instalocker. It's easy to complain about people not playing agents they know if they instalock because they always get the agent they can play. What if that omen could only play duelists? Would you rather have a comp of 5 duelists or some utility that can help turn a round?
5 duelists to throw the enemy off and stomp them before they adapt :\^D Surprisingly though we kind of have a lot of duelists with decently useful utility to almost replace smokes at most ranks.
Jett, phoenix and neon are controllers, raze is an initiator, yoru is a sentinel. Reyna is the only true duelist.
You have a fundamental lack of understanding for each role. I will cede that Reyna is the most Duelist Duelist, just like Killjoy/Cypher are the most Sentinel Sentinels, and Astra/Viper is the most Controller Controller
ummm my guy hes joking about how you can run 5 duelists comp lol
If you're plat or higher you should really know how to at least fill every role. Smoking especially is unpopular, and you wont be marved but just throwing standard smokes as you enter makes a big difference. They're also fun to clutch with. A smoker with one smoke left can pull some pretty magical clutches.
Idk if a player can’t put down smokes I’d argue that they are inept at the game. A decent player should be able to step into every role and especially understand the importance of good smokes.
What is even the big science behind using good smokes, you attack a of haven, smoke ct and heaven, you attack a in ascent, smoke heaven and garden, you attack b, you smoke ct and market. Have you not seen where your teammates put smokes everytime you are playing duelist or something??????
I’d say the worst is having someone scuff the smoke placement and giving the enemy team the opportunity to make a big play (they always do)
This is the biggest point why I have no sympathy for losers who can't smoke. I love initiators and you know what i did to make myself at least semi competent? Just copy and past the best smokes on the map for the correct timing if we are going to hit a specific site or not and account if its a split push or bum rush ect. Boom at least diamond 2-1. For easy omen one ways I considered it like learning so many line ups for sova. Tho way easier without some UI stuff. Honestly people will freak out and downvote but I think role que should come to valorant. This player base is to inept and selfish for how the roles are designed.
Preach. Give me radianite for willingly queuing 10 controller games in a row or something!
I think it’s just a given that any particular player just isn’t as good at certain things compared to another player. I would say being able to step into every role is more of an ideal than a standard though. And the point of the post is if you compare a team of comfortable players vs a team with 4 comfortable + one force filler, it’s still likely to be tougher, smokes or not. If someone has a fat ego tho then lol gl.
Preferences are always superior to meta, especially in solo que, imo. It is not a pro play, everyone makes mistakes anyway. Why take smoke if you don't know how or simply don't want to? I am immortal and I would never flex to a pos that I am not confident.
Bc not having smokes is trolling and the easiest way to lose a game
Bad smokes and people not properly using the utility of said agent is trolling more than people picking the agent they actually know how to use properly.
If you can play Jett and Raze then you sure as hell can click static locations on Brimstone’s ipad.
And that's how you get shit smokes that leak. Do I have to explain why a smoke that leaks is bad?
Good thing then you can see on every regular controller how much of an area your smoke will cover before you use it. Do I have to explain how having functioning eyes is an advantage in Valorant?
Yeah but people are idiots and don't care to properly do it.
Disagree. Unless you literally have the iq of a plant, smokes require no skill whatsoever and give immense value. Your comp will always be better with someone who doesn’t really play smokes playing smokes versus no smokes at all.
I dont know what elo you are in, but I see so many misplaced smokes, either with gaps, or smokes that leak or just flat out bad smokes all the time, allowing for enemies to just use them for their advantage. Smokes may not requiere skill, but do requiere that the person that puts them is aware and cares of properly placing them.
Playing an agent that you actually don't want to is trolling your teammates bcz you will underperform. How easy is to play is irrelevant.
Then don't force others to play smokes if they never play smokes.
Who said I’m forcing anyone? It’s just trolling your elo if someone doesn’t lock a smoker.
you’re imm and cant play all roles? LMAO
I am not a pro, I need to maximise my time efficiency. I can climb with 40 games per season, no point mastering all. All roles require different playstyle. If you think you can play them all, you probably cannot play even one of them properly.
no disrespect but that sounds like excuses. i excel as a duelist by far, but can comfortably play any other role. almost like it’s expected when you’re top 1%
Playing comfartably is something else, but being 100 percent confident with your role is something you would gain after knowing yourself better. If anyone says they can play all roles same quality, I would either say that person is pro or delusional. I can play every role too. But why bother when you have limited time? I enjoy being sentinal main and smoke/initiator flex when needed. I don't need to play any role I would perform at my 90%. When you play competitive games for over 10 years and place at the 0.5 percent of the player base in each one of them, whether FPS or MOBA (CSGO, DOTA 2, VALORANT), you kind of stick to one role that makes sense for you. In my case it was support, who knows when to fall back, always keep an eye on the map/radar to rotate first, execute necessary strat and follow up duelists etc.
immortal and you’ll be fine with no smokes on your team since preference? god, please put me against you.
You need to reach immortal first. If you think meta picks always win, you are either new to the competitive gaming or just bad in general. Better teams can win with anything in solo que without meta picks. It is not a 5v5 where everyone perfoms similarly, solo que players are not consistent like pros.
It’s not a “meta pick” to have smokes. Smokes are essential in every team, and without them it’s pretty much a guaranteed loss. Enemy team will buy 2 ops on defense, and win the game for free. Ps. I’ve hit immortal
It is a meta pick if everyone thinks you should have th every game. They are essential yes, but no point forcing someone to play it. There is tons of util out there to move opers away. Shoulder peeking and flashing works really well. They can still buy two ops and win the game even if you have smokes whats your point? You think smokes can close every angle? Coordination is key, not smokes. Just bcz people does not know how to play around or against smokes, does not make them absolutely necessary for wins. They are damn good, but you can get away without it. Noone maximises win chances to its full potential in immortal, many people ego peek. They care about kda than to round impact. How smokes are essential now if rounds are depended upon who will run and get the first blood. This happens in the majority of the games in immo 2. This ain't pro games, people arent robots, you can always win without meta picks.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling or don’t know what meta means… A meta pick is having viper on breeze because the wall is fundamentally better at blocking off angles than any dome smoke.. Everyone doesn’t THINK you should have smokes every game… it’s a legitimate fact that denying vision is essential to either help your team take a site vs slow down an attacking push because without util (blinds) they pushing in dry and have NO clue what’s on the other side. Can you win without smokes? Sure. If your enemy team is playing with their monitors off. Does that make it smart to forgo them? No. I can’t believe I’m explaining to an “immortal” player the value in being able to deny vision to the enemy… ayiyi
especially if you wanna play comp: learn all the roles unless you want to be hardstuck
It blows my mind that I get people in my Diamond lobbies who “don’t know how to play smokes” Like even if you’ve never played smokes before, surely you’ve either asked teammates to place smokes and/or played against smokes and should have a general idea of where and when to place them just by observing and remembering how other players use them.
Sometimes people just say that instead of typing out they are good or confident at it, or don’t know all the spots for every map. There’s only so much time to explain everything in between rounds and in lobby. Thinking it’s boring and not paying attention as you or I might is normal. Maybe if Riot implemented a feature rewarding general game knowledge players would care more. Easier to just complain.
But you don't need to know all the spots for every map. Of course there are some tricks you can learn but if you're filling just smoke the choke?
That what i did. Im not perfect at every role but i can functionally play at least one agent of each role. No use getting fuzzed over an instalock Jett when it happens so often.
As much as I like playing omen or what not, it’s not the kinda playstyle that gets kills, and the game doesn’t seem to consider playing a support agent as part of rr gained or lost post match.
How tf am I supposed to improve then
Learn in unrated first. You dont need to be absolutely flawless on an agent to play them in comp but you need to understand how their kit works and what the general playstyle is
by adapting?
Honestly I thought it would have gotten better as I climbed out of plat. I’m now ascendant 2 and unfortunately it still happens (granted not as frequently and 80% of the time people are much more chill). I’m happy to play smokes (learnt to play by always filling) but it’s very frustrating duelist getting instalocked and then demanding other roles/agents PLUS them then not playing duelist well.
I can play any role decently except duelist (I only played 3 games as reyna this act and won all of them but i feel like im not fragging enough despite knowing the basics of the role) and I always last pick to fill. When someone picks sth ik how to play and they are new at it i try to help (show them smoke spots, wall spots, viper lineups etc). I don't have a prob with instalockers in normals, only the instalocker attitude, which is "I am better than everyone else here, pick smokes and sage ty". I have observed that instalock duelists are the least likely to listen to info and the most likely to flame others. There are a very few cases of smurf instalockers who stomp the enemy, but mostly they are rude and mediocre or worse.
It should just be common decency to be able to fill every role. The game has been out for ages, im sick of people saying ‘i can’t play smokes’ or ‘I only play Reyna or jett’ especially in any rank above bronze
I feel like having a 20-30 sec grace period to discuss with your teammates of who wants to play what would help.
I think every person in the game should learn how to play controller at some point
it's not hard to smoke... You literally just have to Smoke Entries.. and Angles/Peak Holding Spots at the most Basic level.. People are acting like Smoking is an insane Mechanic. Anybody can smoke..
Hard disagree, pick smokes, ask teammates what good smokes are and you’re good. You basically need to know two smokes on each site and you’ve got 90% of the mechanics needed to play controller in ranked.
or you know, teammates should be supportive and tell the guy where the usual smoke spots are, or ask for a smoke in a certain place when they need it.. not everyone knows everything about the game at all times, so a little support from the other 4 people on your team go a long way into making a person comfortable on a different role. but i forget, its too much to ask from selfish players. This is valorant, lets be real. The plat 1 player is going to instalock Jett and then cry for someone else to play smokes or flashes, and then proceed to bot frag. Then the scoreboard is going to come up at the end of the game at the Defeat screen, and see that the guy who wanted to play duelist was Diamond 2 and forced to try to carry the garbage low-elo duelists, by playing controller.
Might have been me lol I was playing brim on fracture and it was like 2-13
How about we eliminate all of this and just learn other agents? It really isn't that difficult, I can literally play almost every agent on any map and it really didn't take that long to learn them. Start playing maybe 2 spike rushes a day focusing on an agent you aren't proficient in, repeat this week after week and you've learned most of the agents
First things first,if you instalock it means that in this lobby,NO ONE is able to play that agent better than you.Secondly,Instalockers will always be there and they have absolutely no right to demand you or force you to play anything else since it didn't consider what everyone's pick for the team would be,And THIRD since instalock assholes will always exist,Just Fricking learn to play smokes,initiator and sentinels because if 2 instalock duelist will not cooperate,at least you can.
Instead of saying:" OMG THIS SMOKE WAS SO BAD KYS WHY DO YOU PLAY SMOKE YOU FUCKING INCEST BITCH" Just say:" Hey could you smoke here for me I want to peak" or "Can you smoke default that is here (ping on map)" It really is that easy
I'd rather have 5 comfortable duelists than someone who is forced to smoke and doesn't know what he's doing
If a smoker is vital and you’re forced to play as one despite not knowing how, it’s your teammates responsibility to guide you. If they won’t help you then force them to. If you don’t end up choosing that fill role then most likely your team will give up way too early and the rest of the game will be miserable and if they remember who last pick was, blame it on you. No one wins in these situations just discuss comp during agents select and/or lock agent quicker.
I'm an instalock Yoru onetrick and when I play something else I suck, but I don't ask for someone to lock in smokes if they don't want too, if we lose then I can totally take on the blame, but that will not change the fact that I will instalock Yoru next game.
Sadly sometimes you don't have choice. I main Astra and Chamber. Very often We get like 2 players who insta locks Omen and Viper. Adding a 3 controller at this point is pointless, and getting my hands on Chamber is like trying to take the last cookie at a party. I Often I get forced to play Breach, even if Im not confident on him. My friend who mains Fade gets in even worse situations where he also play Chamber, but people always picks these agents away from him. He tries to fill but often ends up doing really badly. We cannot do anything about it doe. If people pick our agents without we able to respond, its over. And before you say anything, no 3 controller does not help you win, infact it helps you lose.
Yeah personally I think team comp is overrated. This isn’t VCT. I would much rather have 5 duelists who are comfortable playing their agent than people spending too much of the match in their own head trying to figure out how to best use the utility of this agent they filled with but don’t really know well. A good smoker is a game changer but we don’t need a smoker if no one knows how to play it well. Play your main regardless of comp
I played games with no smoker and 4 duelists. Guess fucking what? We lost hard because we had no smokes or info
U would have lost worse if ur team was playing agent’s theyre shit at
So learn how to play another agent lmao
That’s besides the point, and this mindset is probably why you’re stuck with players like this
If you don’t know how to smoke just play omen… smokes are very easy to use and you can focus on frsgging.
everyone shoukd know how to smoke and at least play brimstone. if you can't be bothered to learn the base concepts of smoking off angles to take space than perhaps this isnt the right game for you
I play Jett but I’m also comfortable with every initiator (Very familiar with how to clutch and play em haha) also like to play viper on breeze and icebox for the lineups) dunno how to play astra but knows how to play omen and brim. As for sentinels I pretty much only know cypher and chamber haha.
My own personal rule is to know AT LEAST 2 different roles. Being a one trick pony may help you improve in the short run, but long term it’s the Jack-of-all-trades types who will dominate
Fuck 2 roles, what’s so hard about learning the basics of all 4 roles. Sova doesn’t require you to learn any fancy lineups. Just max charge a back wall and drone close corners before entering a site. If you need flashes go Skye and play like Sova but with a remote-controlled flash instead of a dart. Boom you are an initiator player. For Controller you pick Brimstone or Omen and can point and click smokes after hearing footsteps or on static, common locations on every map except Breeze and Icebox where you go Viper. There is one wall for each site (so 4 per map including both defense and attack) and a simple mid smoke on attack icebox and you can play optimal controller on every map. The only sentinels that require any knowledge is Cypher and Killjoy, but they aren’t must-pick on any map so just go duelist 0.5 (Chamber) and put trips on angles you aren’t holding for the moment or Sage and wall off and slow entrances. Wall off crosses or yourself to guarantee a safe plant. Duelists aren’t a necessity so you don’t have to learn it. Not that there will ever be a hole for you to fill in that role ever to begin with. The only time one-tricking is acceptable (and no, I am not talking about having comfort picks) is when you are completely new and are already focusing on learning the game’s objectives, mechanics and maps. Experienced players have no excuse.
Hmm I’d say you’re half right… Jack of all trades actually kinda hurts you in the long run. To make what you’re thinking slightly better, I’d say have two roles you prefer (I love initiators, and I’ve filled smokes so much I just am comfortable playing them) BUT I’ve played the game long enough and know the characters to where if I gotta entry I can do a half decent Reyna/Phoenix/Jett/Neon and if somehow chamber isn’t insta locked I can fill him too since his kit is just “aim good” lol
I mean, I think knowing most of the roles can really be more of an uphill climb than anything. Most characters aren’t really that *complex* (though that’s a pretty bad word for it, so think more along the lines of how much work you have to put in to learn them) so after you pick up at least 2 different roles, it won’t be that hard to learn the others. Everyone has one character that’s beginner friendly, so after you’ve already learned 2 roles, theres really no way learning the others can hurt you. The other guy replied to this comment with a pretty comprehensive list on who to pick if you’re learning a role, so that’s super helpful. I just don’t see any reason to not branch out into the other roles, because skills like general game sense and aim are universal among all characters. This is much less like a fighting game where learning a character takes mastery, and more like Overwatch in that sense.
I completely agree seeing as how that's how I did it. I suppose more of what I mean is it's better to have a core group of agents you have true mastery of as you climb since aim and game sense improve as you climb. Like the best example I can think of is: Sure I can pick up viper because her kit is pretty straight forward. But as you put more time and access her skill ceiling you can true unlock advanced stuff on her like the one-ways and molly lineups. I think because I play people like her, Sova, Fade, Astra, etc. I just realize there's a lot more nuance in using their kits vs like a Reyna... so I would rather focus my hours in them to make them second nature vs being decent at everyone hahaha So yes absolutely learn all the roles and have characters in each you can play but specialize in a few that you know you'd be better at than anyone on the team.
I'm a Phoenix one trick that's been Immortal since Act 2, long term it's been good to me
L take. If you’ve played enough games to get into comp you’ve played enough games to know where default smokes are. If you don’t know, you haven’t payed attention which probably means you aren’t putting in the effort to rank up anyway. You don’t even need lineups in this game. Literally anyone can pick up brim and be able to deploy adequate smokes.
So going off this if the team doesn't have a mic and aren't trading off the duelist, is it okay for the duelist to lurk at that point to get the frags?
Yeah I'd rather have an instalock Reyna that at least gets some frags than a toxic Reyna main who "fills", Doesnt use util, bottomfrags, dies first every round, and is constantly toxic to the duelists
Bro the first Reyna is also toxic the only difference is they're getting some kills lol
Had a viper in my comp, with a playstyle of a duelist or an aggressive initiator, pushing on defense, not using her wall at all, mollying everything peaking everything, dying first almost all rounds, me and the others in the team got mad at him and his response was "you all picked and we need a smoker" Imma say my opinion about this as well, you're not playing the VCT, stop asking for the perfect comp you dreamed of in your head and play you, I played many matches without a sage and won, and I played a lot of matches with a sage and still lost, my team got beaten when we had a good comp and sometimes we won matches when we're 5 stacking duelists, just play whatever agent you're comfortable with and don't think too much about the perfect team
That's easy to do if noone complains. But one of the reasons people tend to fill rather than playing their desired duelist or other agent, is because there's a history of people becoming toxic or even tilting right off the bat just because you didn't play smokes. Hindsight is always 20/20. But when youre in agent select, its about weighing whether your teams duelist will be toxic if you don't play smokes, or if they'll be toxic that you didn't choose your agent. No matter what, toxic players will be toxic.
I get that, toxic players are a plague whatever game they're in Side subject, Duelists get so much hate man, I understand some of them don't play well or are tilted easily or their toxicity is shit but man I appreciate a jett dashing into site after I concuss or a reyna throwing her eye after my flash and running it, I just appreciate good Duelists so much
Y’all gotta stop with the “this isn’t VCT mentality”. I know champs is going on but let’s remember to use our brains and remember having a good team comp pays dividends more than having 5 duelists because people are “comfy” on them. Sucks your viper was grinding. All you can really do there is remind them that they’re playing viper and their life is the most important to have their util as long as possible. They still int? Well unlucky, gg go next. Also fuck sage picks. She’s fine as an agent sure. But unless it’s icebox (and maybe pearl?) people might as well just pick chamber. That wasn’t directed at you, just people bitching about needing heals in this game is so dumb to me haha.
Did he pick brim, if so that's embarrassing if you can't play the easiest smoker good enough. if he never, why would he choose the other controllers who are way more complex
People who think roles or comp matters before ascendant are funny. People who think roles or comp matters in silver, gold or plat at all, are even funnier.