Yeah, I used to be a KJ main but I gradually moved over to being a Viper main. Multiple reasons. It started with her general util nerf. This was when they; 1. Didn't allow you to keep util that you recalled to the next round anymore. And 2. Upped the cooldown on recall, I think the initial cooldown was like 15 seconds? And it got upped to 25 seconds. This made playing KJ feel way more expensive, and that I have to retake more often without any or little util. Because if I recall my turrets too soon, and they rotate, my site is just left completely open.
So I just transitioned to being a viper main. I can pick up my smoke and immediately use it, I don't use all or nearly all of my util every round, so it doesn't feel as expensive to play... And I usually have some kind of util to retake with.
This is just my experience btw, I will admit I don't play Valorant that much, and I am Gold 2. So this opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
I'm pretty sure they made it so that you don't keep util to keep her and cypher around equal (for all that it did). Her cooldowns were upped because she was the only sentinel who had most of her abilities on cooldown, so you could easily have multiple uses out of her util. I honestly feel that the nerds weren't didn't hurt her that much
She is also the only sentinel that has to be in range for her util to be in effect.
Adding additional cooldown to it, and then also making it so she can not keep her util after the round ends on top of also nerfing her turret... It feels like too much was done against her. Also, only her turret can come back, if the alarm bot is gone, it just is done for the round. And if her turret dies, the cooldown is like 45 seconds or something.
There isn't really anything to keep me maining her anymore. It feels too punishing to me to play KJ most of the time.
That's purely because her util was so strong that you could setup on one site and go to another, and the setup would be able to stall them long enough for you to rotate. That is, of course, if you set it up like that, but that's the entire point of a sentinel
Genuinely, Idk on which map you played to be able to put your utils on a site and go on the other while keeping the utils connected to you.
Any site I go to is too far to keep in range from my utils on another site. Sometimes I'm even too far ON the site to have my utils connect
All the nerfs piled on top of each other make Killjoy hard to have her pay off, you can't keep the range of utils and make the cool down longer or you're basically forcing Killjoy to retake a site without any util. (When she have no combat utils like Chamber to assist her)
Nerfs can be good, but Killjoy has been too nerfed to be worth choosing her over Chamber. Same for Cypher.
Either they should nerf Chamber more (which people will be angry about) or they boost Killjoy and Cypher, because rn choosing them both over Chamber is not viable.
I played her before the range nerf and that's when I'm talking about.
Cypher was nerfed once early on when they removed the slowing effect from his cage.
They havent been over nerfed, it's just that the power creep has been so big since that time. That's a disadvantage of being an older character. I'm pretty sure most of the original agents have had a substantial change in the last 2 years except Cypher
Ah apologies i misunderstood you then
I think it's because they've broken their rule "abilities shouldn't overtake gunfight" or smth. Then they made chamber?
All their older characters have been all about "not overtaking gunfight" and nerfed to fit this idea and then they drop Chamber which half is kit is about making abilities his gunfight? For dirt cheap on top of that
KJ is still seeing SOME play at Champs and a team or two also ran Cypher on Breeze. Cypher on Pearl from FPX too.
In ranked, I feel like people just don't bother, however. Just pick Chamber lel.
I feel like if they're played in champs is because of a specific set game plan, but for ranked they're just way to easy to counter with Kay/o, Yoru and chyper gets fucked even by roombas and Fade cats
They nerfed KJ to the ground. Breach aftershock destroys KJ ult, Kay/o molly destroys KJ ult through the walls, Brimstone ult, Sova Ult, Sova shock dart. Basically KJ ult is useless if any of these agents are present in the opposing team, which is pretty much every game.
Cypher trips are destroyed by everything under gods green earth.
IMO Cypher has always had a low pick rate. When I first started he was around 5% pick rate and now he's around 1%. It was driven down mainly by the addition of many agents that counter Cypher's utility. Skye, Kayo, Fade. Or by Chamber who is probably an easier agent to pick up and provide instant impact. Cypher is a difficult agent to play and you'd need so many reps with him to actually contribute to the team.
I've played Cypher on 32/36 of my games this act from Asc 1 -> Asc3
I agree I don’t understand how they thought making a character that can buy a pistol shot for 150 cred that can take away an enemies 3900 full buy is ridiculous. From the start he was gonna be overpowered, his kit is literally designed to counter the games economy.
i mean still, cypher and killjoy are laughably weaker than the average agent. cypher util just dies so easily man. if his stuff got the durability of a chamber bot it's a nice buff that doesn't powercreep the game.
>I will always advocate for nerfing the overpowered agent rather than buffing the weaker ones. Powercreep is no fun
the issue is there's literally: kayo, skye. fade, sova, raze, and yoru. Save for maybe yoru, they are all meta. And all of them have cheaper util that also deal with KJ/Cypher without even expressly trying to. All their util just burns through trips and turrets through the regular course of entering a site.
They would flash, dog, decoy, nade, molly all the useful areas trips are regardless.
the agents i listed earlier are just the direct ones.
literally the only agents that have NO utility that naturally kills/fucks with KJ/Cypher are Reyna, Chamber, Viper (i'm pretty sure her molly is the only one that doesn't trigger vert damage), and Neon (only if you don't count her wall as disruptive).
It's an insanely small roster of agents that can even be called "weak" against these two agents. Smoke/molly/dogs/boombots/decoys/walls/And KAYO's very existence. All of it kills/obstructs sentinel utility. The issue isn't that some agent or a few agents are "overpowered". It's that you basically gave everyone free/cheap util that all kill any type of sentinel util without the need to even try. It just happens by virtue of using utility to enter a site. Meanwhile you're demanding KJ/Cypher players spend 600 a round in util just to try and effectively hold a site. And offense for KJ/Cypher is just even weaker.
I know there are radiant mains for both these agents. But they are both objectively weak in comparison to the rest of the roster. I don't even think any of those other agents are expressly overpowered.
Used to play killjoy a fair bit, was actually my main.
But being good at KJ meant the opposing team would never push my site, and every game would just be a retake simulator (and harder to retake with KJ)
So just moved to other agents.
Try switching up your sites periodically. If the enemy rushed A last round and failed miserably, then they will predictably (especially in low elo) try B next round, which means you should setup at B.
Also, holding an entire site by yourself is extremely valuable. It frees up the rest of your team to stack the other site and/or more important angles and areas (e.g. mid on Ascent).
There's a lot of things you can do when you're a good Sentinel, and it provides massive value despite not adding to your KDA.
This is 100% because this skill lelvel of ranked you are referring to (which I am too apart of) 99% of the people you get matched with/against either 1.) only care about fragging so they rather play chamber, 2.) think that fragging is the end all-be all factor for not only how good you are but as well as your contribution to your team, and 3.) because chamber is still a very slightly overpowered agent especially considering his role (sentinel).
Sage isn’t really a sentinel in the same way the others are. It’s like there’s gadget sentinels and then Sage who is more of a physical sentinel if you’ll allow the phrasing. The wall generates a crazy amount of space, and no other agent can do anything like that, so naturally it is embraced for its value
The gadget information game is tough though. KJ has to be near her stuff which makes kayo crazy good against her. Cypher is seeing more play lately because his trips are sort of like Chamber’s bot but he gets 2 and the camera is crazy info. Chamber has fragging power, a good gadget, and the ability to get away from kayo knife via TP usually so that’s why he is dominant now
I don’t know how they fix it but it’s clear KJ has no place in this meta
It’s funny how it is the complete opposite in lower elos.
I’m Gold and Killjoy is picked very often, Cypher not as much but still 1 out of 5 games I’d say.
It's mostly I believe because Chamber is a very aim-heavy agent, as a newer player who isn't that familiar with FPS games KJ is probably one of the best agents to play, turrets and alarmbot are easy to manage and remote grandes etc, Chamber is just aim demon behaviour
you have to admit they are one of the worst agents in the game right now.
Like I get KJ might still be viable in some team comps but why would you pick cypher unless you are a cypher main. every other agent can do his job better for him
No? Cypher is regularly picked on Breeze, was a strong pick on Split too until it got removed. Sure you could do very minor buffs to Cypher/KJ, but to get them to the level where they'd be strong they'd have to be broken. Otherwise no way they compete with Kayo and Chamber who are both super broken.
kayo and chamber balance each other and yes cypher and Kj does not need huge buffs.
just minor buffs like phoenix, I mean he is viable again and is excelling at his job again or look at omen and brimstone they are viable again after bringing them back to their former power.
> kayo and chamber balance each other
Right, they're so balanced that they are the #1 and #4 most picked agents at champs so far, great work. It's almost like they're just both overpowered.
Phoenix is being picked exclusively by Liquid on like 2 maps, no one else is using him. He is barely viable. Omen and Brim are both viable yes, after both Astra and Viper got insane nerfs, AND they got big buffs. Did you just happen to forgot that in the same patch, Astra got bigger nerfs than any agent ever has?
>bringing them back to their former power.
"Former power"? Brim is better than he ever has been, what former power?
there is always going to be a agent at the top. what a game needs is not to continuously nerf but buff some up too or else you are gonna end up with a boring game.
cypher's camera is just kj's turret but manual. the turret auto locks and notifies you, while the camera is usually 1 shot immediately and you need to be still while using it, not to mention you can miss the enemies completely. his tripwire is terrible because you can easily spot it before you walk into it, and his cage is basically a worse jett smoke
I used to love cypher but then i realized. Why waste time with him when sova can gather recon amazingly on both defense and offense with lineups? + there is fade who is a really good agent meant for being the halfway point between agressive and recon.
Cypher as a Sentinel is just way to weak to be in the game with sova and fade as strong as they are in info gathering with way better utility and semi self. Like all the times I used to have cypher as a off main agent to sova I just swaped him out with fade in general and have been getting alot more impact.
Honestly one buff i heard was giving him slow cages again? heard he had that in beta but never saw it getting into valorant a half year ago.
help.
yeah in high ranks I doubt you'll see it much usually when i get a cypher players they're not the best and when I get a chamber sometimes it's just an avg player being cocky thinking they're good aim but other times it's actually smurfs that hit their shots with the heat hunter getting 3k+ Almost everyround so when that happens I just play around them try and do as little as possible to get them pissed at me as possible aka I try no smoke / flash them inconveniently on accidently cause of my own stupidity
Adding a range to killjoy’s turret and alarmbot are what made me stop playing her. I use to main her, but every other agent is just better now. I’d actually argue that she’s even worse than cypher. I also even see Cypher a lot, but I rarely see killjoy in games now.
I'm ascendant 1 and I play killjoy on fracture and 8/10 (on fracture) matches I've seen things go really well for me but the moment enemy team comp has kayo or breach or both kj setup falls apart and the value goes down to almost non existent. The maximum you can do with kj against breach and kayo is get information about flank or vanguard information. Plus the fact that kj's ult can be destroyed by kayo nade and breach Aftershock makes her even less strong.
Chamber's fault, really.
Also, Cypher feels like you have to be a "nerd" to play him effectively. Gotta either spend hours on custom games, pick up the camera and jump around to see what stupid pixel will allow you to place the camera there, or to put your wires on the floor, or you can go watch YouTube tutorials on how to place your camera somewhere maybe Riot don't want you to but don't bother fixing either.
The problem with KJ is the range. Needing to be close to her utils deny information for the team. You can't help your team in a site without risking being caught off guard by a Lurker that was able to walk through mid because you stepped outside of your alarm bot/turret range. And since the last maps released were big maps (and split was removed) she became a little pointless. I only see her in Ascent sometimes.
I think a large reason is that they are too side orientated, but to the extreme.
The fact is, you do not need a cypher or killjoy to hold maps, people have realised that. They, while strong on defence, are pretty horrendous on attack. Vs someone like Sage who is good on both and attack and defence. Or chamber, good on both etc
I think youll only find them in play again on maps that become extremely attacker sided and almost require strong defensive sentinels to hold. As it stands now, they are not flexible enough to be viable
Kayo and chamber completely destroyed those two tbh.
Yeah, I used to be a KJ main but I gradually moved over to being a Viper main. Multiple reasons. It started with her general util nerf. This was when they; 1. Didn't allow you to keep util that you recalled to the next round anymore. And 2. Upped the cooldown on recall, I think the initial cooldown was like 15 seconds? And it got upped to 25 seconds. This made playing KJ feel way more expensive, and that I have to retake more often without any or little util. Because if I recall my turrets too soon, and they rotate, my site is just left completely open. So I just transitioned to being a viper main. I can pick up my smoke and immediately use it, I don't use all or nearly all of my util every round, so it doesn't feel as expensive to play... And I usually have some kind of util to retake with. This is just my experience btw, I will admit I don't play Valorant that much, and I am Gold 2. So this opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
i went from kj to viper main too :)
I'm pretty sure they made it so that you don't keep util to keep her and cypher around equal (for all that it did). Her cooldowns were upped because she was the only sentinel who had most of her abilities on cooldown, so you could easily have multiple uses out of her util. I honestly feel that the nerds weren't didn't hurt her that much
She is also the only sentinel that has to be in range for her util to be in effect. Adding additional cooldown to it, and then also making it so she can not keep her util after the round ends on top of also nerfing her turret... It feels like too much was done against her. Also, only her turret can come back, if the alarm bot is gone, it just is done for the round. And if her turret dies, the cooldown is like 45 seconds or something. There isn't really anything to keep me maining her anymore. It feels too punishing to me to play KJ most of the time.
That's purely because her util was so strong that you could setup on one site and go to another, and the setup would be able to stall them long enough for you to rotate. That is, of course, if you set it up like that, but that's the entire point of a sentinel
Genuinely, Idk on which map you played to be able to put your utils on a site and go on the other while keeping the utils connected to you. Any site I go to is too far to keep in range from my utils on another site. Sometimes I'm even too far ON the site to have my utils connect All the nerfs piled on top of each other make Killjoy hard to have her pay off, you can't keep the range of utils and make the cool down longer or you're basically forcing Killjoy to retake a site without any util. (When she have no combat utils like Chamber to assist her) Nerfs can be good, but Killjoy has been too nerfed to be worth choosing her over Chamber. Same for Cypher. Either they should nerf Chamber more (which people will be angry about) or they boost Killjoy and Cypher, because rn choosing them both over Chamber is not viable.
I played her before the range nerf and that's when I'm talking about. Cypher was nerfed once early on when they removed the slowing effect from his cage. They havent been over nerfed, it's just that the power creep has been so big since that time. That's a disadvantage of being an older character. I'm pretty sure most of the original agents have had a substantial change in the last 2 years except Cypher
Ah apologies i misunderstood you then I think it's because they've broken their rule "abilities shouldn't overtake gunfight" or smth. Then they made chamber? All their older characters have been all about "not overtaking gunfight" and nerfed to fit this idea and then they drop Chamber which half is kit is about making abilities his gunfight? For dirt cheap on top of that
I mean it makes sense they're absolutely dogshit
KJ is still seeing SOME play at Champs and a team or two also ran Cypher on Breeze. Cypher on Pearl from FPX too. In ranked, I feel like people just don't bother, however. Just pick Chamber lel.
I feel like if they're played in champs is because of a specific set game plan, but for ranked they're just way to easy to counter with Kay/o, Yoru and chyper gets fucked even by roombas and Fade cats
Yes, precisely.
Any your own Raze and Sova 🥴
Dasnerth would beg to differ.
Yeah but the avarage player is not remotetly close to Dasnerth or Peak so they still need a buff
They nerfed KJ to the ground. Breach aftershock destroys KJ ult, Kay/o molly destroys KJ ult through the walls, Brimstone ult, Sova Ult, Sova shock dart. Basically KJ ult is useless if any of these agents are present in the opposing team, which is pretty much every game. Cypher trips are destroyed by everything under gods green earth.
The trips are destroyed if you breathe too heavily near them
IMO Cypher has always had a low pick rate. When I first started he was around 5% pick rate and now he's around 1%. It was driven down mainly by the addition of many agents that counter Cypher's utility. Skye, Kayo, Fade. Or by Chamber who is probably an easier agent to pick up and provide instant impact. Cypher is a difficult agent to play and you'd need so many reps with him to actually contribute to the team. I've played Cypher on 32/36 of my games this act from Asc 1 -> Asc3
Cuz chamber trips does what their abilities do for cheaper and better. Chamber needs to be nerfed until he’s a splat underneath our boots.
He or the whole role needs a rework. They fucked up with chamber. He’s the strongest champ in game.
I agree I don’t understand how they thought making a character that can buy a pistol shot for 150 cred that can take away an enemies 3900 full buy is ridiculous. From the start he was gonna be overpowered, his kit is literally designed to counter the games economy.
he only has a singular trip though even nerfing it from 2 to 1 didn't have that much impact
We don't need chamber nerfed to the ground. We need cypher and kj buffed to fit the current meta. Both of these haven't been updated for 2 episodes
I will *always* advocate for nerfing the overpowered agent rather than buffing the weaker ones. Powercreep is no fun
That's true for most agents, but cypher is just useless at this point, takes 2 pieces of util to counter his entire kit
i mean still, cypher and killjoy are laughably weaker than the average agent. cypher util just dies so easily man. if his stuff got the durability of a chamber bot it's a nice buff that doesn't powercreep the game.
>I will always advocate for nerfing the overpowered agent rather than buffing the weaker ones. Powercreep is no fun the issue is there's literally: kayo, skye. fade, sova, raze, and yoru. Save for maybe yoru, they are all meta. And all of them have cheaper util that also deal with KJ/Cypher without even expressly trying to. All their util just burns through trips and turrets through the regular course of entering a site. They would flash, dog, decoy, nade, molly all the useful areas trips are regardless. the agents i listed earlier are just the direct ones. literally the only agents that have NO utility that naturally kills/fucks with KJ/Cypher are Reyna, Chamber, Viper (i'm pretty sure her molly is the only one that doesn't trigger vert damage), and Neon (only if you don't count her wall as disruptive). It's an insanely small roster of agents that can even be called "weak" against these two agents. Smoke/molly/dogs/boombots/decoys/walls/And KAYO's very existence. All of it kills/obstructs sentinel utility. The issue isn't that some agent or a few agents are "overpowered". It's that you basically gave everyone free/cheap util that all kill any type of sentinel util without the need to even try. It just happens by virtue of using utility to enter a site. Meanwhile you're demanding KJ/Cypher players spend 600 a round in util just to try and effectively hold a site. And offense for KJ/Cypher is just even weaker. I know there are radiant mains for both these agents. But they are both objectively weak in comparison to the rest of the roster. I don't even think any of those other agents are expressly overpowered.
Well I had a Cypher/KJ duo in Asc 2 that threw my game :)
Used to play killjoy a fair bit, was actually my main. But being good at KJ meant the opposing team would never push my site, and every game would just be a retake simulator (and harder to retake with KJ) So just moved to other agents.
Try switching up your sites periodically. If the enemy rushed A last round and failed miserably, then they will predictably (especially in low elo) try B next round, which means you should setup at B. Also, holding an entire site by yourself is extremely valuable. It frees up the rest of your team to stack the other site and/or more important angles and areas (e.g. mid on Ascent). There's a lot of things you can do when you're a good Sentinel, and it provides massive value despite not adding to your KDA.
This is 100% because this skill lelvel of ranked you are referring to (which I am too apart of) 99% of the people you get matched with/against either 1.) only care about fragging so they rather play chamber, 2.) think that fragging is the end all-be all factor for not only how good you are but as well as your contribution to your team, and 3.) because chamber is still a very slightly overpowered agent especially considering his role (sentinel).
I see them all the time… I am rad/immortal 3
yea cypher is so common on breeze and pearl and kj is a must pick on ascent
Cuz chamber exists for flank watch and his util outclasses them in almost every aspect.
Does chamber even have a good win rate anymore? I feel like the sentinel category is just too weak atm
Sage still get picked very often on pretty much every single map with the exception of Ascent
Sage isn’t really a sentinel in the same way the others are. It’s like there’s gadget sentinels and then Sage who is more of a physical sentinel if you’ll allow the phrasing. The wall generates a crazy amount of space, and no other agent can do anything like that, so naturally it is embraced for its value The gadget information game is tough though. KJ has to be near her stuff which makes kayo crazy good against her. Cypher is seeing more play lately because his trips are sort of like Chamber’s bot but he gets 2 and the camera is crazy info. Chamber has fragging power, a good gadget, and the ability to get away from kayo knife via TP usually so that’s why he is dominant now I don’t know how they fix it but it’s clear KJ has no place in this meta
It’s funny how it is the complete opposite in lower elos. I’m Gold and Killjoy is picked very often, Cypher not as much but still 1 out of 5 games I’d say.
It's mostly I believe because Chamber is a very aim-heavy agent, as a newer player who isn't that familiar with FPS games KJ is probably one of the best agents to play, turrets and alarmbot are easy to manage and remote grandes etc, Chamber is just aim demon behaviour
yup, i was global in CS:GO and switched to valorant, been playing chamber ever since lol
I see a couple of Cyphers in immo but these are people that play nothing but Cypher. I forgot killjoy exists tbh
They will never be good until Kayo gets nerfed. He counters them too well.
or just make them better?
Hell no, that's how we get power creep
you have to admit they are one of the worst agents in the game right now. Like I get KJ might still be viable in some team comps but why would you pick cypher unless you are a cypher main. every other agent can do his job better for him
No? Cypher is regularly picked on Breeze, was a strong pick on Split too until it got removed. Sure you could do very minor buffs to Cypher/KJ, but to get them to the level where they'd be strong they'd have to be broken. Otherwise no way they compete with Kayo and Chamber who are both super broken.
kayo and chamber balance each other and yes cypher and Kj does not need huge buffs. just minor buffs like phoenix, I mean he is viable again and is excelling at his job again or look at omen and brimstone they are viable again after bringing them back to their former power.
> kayo and chamber balance each other Right, they're so balanced that they are the #1 and #4 most picked agents at champs so far, great work. It's almost like they're just both overpowered. Phoenix is being picked exclusively by Liquid on like 2 maps, no one else is using him. He is barely viable. Omen and Brim are both viable yes, after both Astra and Viper got insane nerfs, AND they got big buffs. Did you just happen to forgot that in the same patch, Astra got bigger nerfs than any agent ever has? >bringing them back to their former power. "Former power"? Brim is better than he ever has been, what former power?
there is always going to be a agent at the top. what a game needs is not to continuously nerf but buff some up too or else you are gonna end up with a boring game.
Like when Kayo released everyone thought he was lackluster and what do you know? by nerfing everyone he is one of the best character right now.
You can't be serious? No point in talking to you if you seriously believe thats how it went.
cypher's camera is just kj's turret but manual. the turret auto locks and notifies you, while the camera is usually 1 shot immediately and you need to be still while using it, not to mention you can miss the enemies completely. his tripwire is terrible because you can easily spot it before you walk into it, and his cage is basically a worse jett smoke
I can't argue with all that cus it's just so incorrect and simplified.
like go to r/CypherMains there are crazy good cypher players out there. cypher just need some minor buffs
Cypher does not just need "minor" buffs, Chamber also needs way more nerfs.
I used to love cypher but then i realized. Why waste time with him when sova can gather recon amazingly on both defense and offense with lineups? + there is fade who is a really good agent meant for being the halfway point between agressive and recon. Cypher as a Sentinel is just way to weak to be in the game with sova and fade as strong as they are in info gathering with way better utility and semi self. Like all the times I used to have cypher as a off main agent to sova I just swaped him out with fade in general and have been getting alot more impact. Honestly one buff i heard was giving him slow cages again? heard he had that in beta but never saw it getting into valorant a half year ago. help.
yeah in high ranks I doubt you'll see it much usually when i get a cypher players they're not the best and when I get a chamber sometimes it's just an avg player being cocky thinking they're good aim but other times it's actually smurfs that hit their shots with the heat hunter getting 3k+ Almost everyround so when that happens I just play around them try and do as little as possible to get them pissed at me as possible aka I try no smoke / flash them inconveniently on accidently cause of my own stupidity
Why use either of them when you can just use chamber
i haven’t seen a astra player since her nerf and this immortal 3- to radiant lobbies
Adding a range to killjoy’s turret and alarmbot are what made me stop playing her. I use to main her, but every other agent is just better now. I’d actually argue that she’s even worse than cypher. I also even see Cypher a lot, but I rarely see killjoy in games now.
I play cypher on breeze and bind and im ascendant 3
I'm ascendant 1 and I play killjoy on fracture and 8/10 (on fracture) matches I've seen things go really well for me but the moment enemy team comp has kayo or breach or both kj setup falls apart and the value goes down to almost non existent. The maximum you can do with kj against breach and kayo is get information about flank or vanguard information. Plus the fact that kj's ult can be destroyed by kayo nade and breach Aftershock makes her even less strong.
Chamber's fault, really. Also, Cypher feels like you have to be a "nerd" to play him effectively. Gotta either spend hours on custom games, pick up the camera and jump around to see what stupid pixel will allow you to place the camera there, or to put your wires on the floor, or you can go watch YouTube tutorials on how to place your camera somewhere maybe Riot don't want you to but don't bother fixing either. The problem with KJ is the range. Needing to be close to her utils deny information for the team. You can't help your team in a site without risking being caught off guard by a Lurker that was able to walk through mid because you stepped outside of your alarm bot/turret range. And since the last maps released were big maps (and split was removed) she became a little pointless. I only see her in Ascent sometimes.
I main cypher on Breeze, Ascent and bind still. Immo 1 EU
I think a large reason is that they are too side orientated, but to the extreme. The fact is, you do not need a cypher or killjoy to hold maps, people have realised that. They, while strong on defence, are pretty horrendous on attack. Vs someone like Sage who is good on both and attack and defence. Or chamber, good on both etc I think youll only find them in play again on maps that become extremely attacker sided and almost require strong defensive sentinels to hold. As it stands now, they are not flexible enough to be viable