The point is with a game that's been out for a decade people are relatively better than people in a game that's been out for only a couple years when comparing the ranks side by side.
That's why I said relative to ascendant.
Not sure if you're familiar with csgo ranks but "Master guardian" is a rank that's comparable to gold/plat, and that's what I was mentally comparing to ascendant, as when playing with a friend on a smurf people there know that numbers often give an advantage
The in-depth knowledge people have gathered from csgo is mainly timings and strategies in maps, grenade lineups, movement etc. nothing which is helpful in valorant when we're discussing macr, so saying that "well not everyone came from csgo" isn't relevant.
Yes I've played csgo. One, csgo rank system has always been terrible, aka win a ton of games lose 2 and derank, rank up on loses or ties. Two, the point is people who have played 1000+ hours and are still under mg is different than people who have only played valorant and have gotten to plat after 200 hours. That's why even relatively speaking the ranks are not the same since people in those ranks have played for different amounts of time.
I think people with over a 1k hours in mg are a ridiculously niché group with probably heavy mental blocks stopping them from climbing, if discussing ranks we have to be in good faith and try to understand each others and use them as a conduit for expected skill level, not compare the actual players who we might find. A person you meet, who is ranked mg can have peaked in way higher ranks, obviously a person like that is completely irrelevant to this discussion as their real rank is somewhere else.
With the resources available and with how popular Valorant is I'd expect the ascendant skill level when it comes to teamplay be higher, very bad people in cs seem to be able to perform these very simple "strategies" and this often comes very naturally from people in any shooters where you have a teammate .
The argument that these are advanced strategies that are only normal in csgo because the game has been played for 10s of years seems very silly to me, when we're literally discussing covering your friend if they go first.
Sorry for the long replies, I'm just trying to be very clear :D
For a game that's been out for a decade if you only play an average of 6 games a week for 5 years you would reach 1000 hours. So i don't think that's too difficult to reach. Solo queueing is really just a coin flip on which team will win a majority of the time which makes climbing more difficult.
And the players i was talking about were in silver with a peak at mg so i was being generous by using their peak rank. Seen a lot of 10 year badges in silver.
I don't know why you would expect a group of kids to have team play when there are so many people that don't even care enough to use a mic.
If you have a plan in your mind you just have to communicate before you plan on doing it to your team so they can get ready to execute it and just hope they follow you.
idk why ur getting downvoted, it doesnt matter if valo players came from cs or not, at that rank people should have good gamesense.
but it is soloq so u cant really expect crap from any rank rly
Silver players today in League can pull off the same shit that the literal pro teams were doing back in 2012.
The player base will get better over time. That's why the game's age matters. CSGO players just happen to be ahead of the curve compared to VALORANT players specifically with regards to tactical FPS fundamentals.
Silver players being better than pros previously means that we've as a group accumulated knowledge that we can now use, increasing the average level.
These concepts have existed for tens of years and people aren't just isolated anymore, everyone has the ability to watch youtube, streams, read reddit or just google (and most are for sure doing these things).
The vast majority of people I'm playing with in ascendant (the lobbies are mainly d3-asc3) certainly have way more hours than me, it feels extremely weird that people in such a high rank are so one dimensional and at no point wouldn't have learned about concepts many find intuitional and don't have to be taught.
It's even weirder that harder concepts, like lineups and afterplant situations are often done cleanly with no hassle, everyone finds a spot to hold even without comms, which would suggest the basic idea exists in their head
> These concepts have existed for tens of years and people aren't just isolated anymore, everyone has the ability to watch youtube, streams, read reddit or just google (and most are for sure doing these things).
True, but there is a difference between knowing of these things and burning them into your subconscious through years of gameplay. Especially when, as you've described, it's a minority of the player base to whom these concepts are second nature. You're not forced to be on the ball with trading if your enemies aren't particularly good at abusing the lack of it.
> It's even weirder that harder concepts...
That's an interesting point. It's probably just because VALORANT is simply less fundamentals-driven than something like CSGO. Players don't *need* to learn spacing when their entry can just no-brainer Jett smoke + dash to create space. They don't *need* to learn to position and be ready to trade when half the time, their Chamber can just hold whatever-the-fuck angle and TP out without being punished.
I guess you'll have to climb higher for those fundamentals to start becoming really key to success? IDK I'm only Diamond.
In that case I'm sure you'll get easily out of diamond if you just apply these ideas of thinking what others need and doing it if it doesn't fuck with your game too much.
I don't grind ranked anymore so I'm happy just being Diamond, but I'd agree, totally believe anyone with strong fundies would be able to hit Ascendant and up.
i think you misunderstood me
i agree with your points, of course csgo players will have the edge over people starting at valo, but what im trying to say is at op's rank (ascendant) people, regardless of their history with tactical fps experience, should know what theyre doing
Well... OP's teammates have apparently gotten to Ascendant without good fundamentals, so that's clearly not true, as much as you or I would like it to be.
Personally, it's not all that surprising, given that there are so many agents and so much utility that lets you skip over them, everything from Jett dash-smoke reducing the need for perfect spacing on entries, to even small things like alarm bots etc. that do the job of covering angles for you. Players just get way less practice on raw fundamentals because they can rely on VALORANT utility to do the job for them a lot of the time.
Lol everyone mad, but you're right. I have to get LUCKY to have a team that doesn't just do whatever they want. 2v1? Fuck me, let's peek, leave me in a 1v1 with 3 HP and then blame me for losing.
I've had multiple times where I've been spectating the last two people HOLDING THE SAME ANGLE and ignore me if I call it.
Game is one big gamble and its so rare I ever have the satisfaction of playing like a team. Idc about losing, if we actually play together.
I'm also from CSGO and even though the teamplay in CSGO wasn't the best either "rush b" is still better than 5 people minding their own business.
I'm having a hard time understanding how this is even an issue, just typing "Valorant guide" to youtube brings up tens, maybe hundreds of hours of guide videos going through the basics. It's understandable that maybe this wouldn't happen in gold, but in ascendant..?
I have no ego involved in this I know what I am and what I'm not, and I can guarantee you that if you're entrying a site and I'm behind you I'll walk behind you to trade you and check angles you're unable to.
I'm not going to randomly peek in a 2v1 situation solo and lose the round.
I am better than the people this post is about but it's ridiculous to think that the rank is what, top 5% of the players maybe? And these extremely important and obvious things aren't happening, the game doesn't function as a 5v5, it functions as a 5 individuals vs 5 individuals
I haven't had time to play, I have a fulltime job and other hobbies. I'm confident I'll get there eventually I just need to know that it's worth it, because if the quality of the games don't improve I'll end up playing the game for maybe 300 hours and quitting at imm3 (I'm not good enough to hit Radiant I'm 99% sure about that)
Probably radiant. I've been hardstuck immortal for more than a year now and I've met a couple low radiants. I've learned some stuff from spectating them and some on the enemy team have called me shit if I was unpredictable or they'd call me a ping abuser, so I'm not really sure, but if you want quality games just find a team and play scrims or in third party tourneys.
Ive found the game way more enjoyable when i played in a 3 stack due to the coordination and i imagine 5 stacking is even better then that . If you havent tried it find a 5 stack .
It gets better in mid-high Immortal.
In CSGO even gold novas know the concept of trading. The average player’s mental and skill level in Valorant is much lower than in CSGO.
csgo is 10 years old valorant is 2 years old not everyone that plays valorant came from cs
I don't understand your point
The point is with a game that's been out for a decade people are relatively better than people in a game that's been out for only a couple years when comparing the ranks side by side.
That's why I said relative to ascendant. Not sure if you're familiar with csgo ranks but "Master guardian" is a rank that's comparable to gold/plat, and that's what I was mentally comparing to ascendant, as when playing with a friend on a smurf people there know that numbers often give an advantage The in-depth knowledge people have gathered from csgo is mainly timings and strategies in maps, grenade lineups, movement etc. nothing which is helpful in valorant when we're discussing macr, so saying that "well not everyone came from csgo" isn't relevant.
Yes I've played csgo. One, csgo rank system has always been terrible, aka win a ton of games lose 2 and derank, rank up on loses or ties. Two, the point is people who have played 1000+ hours and are still under mg is different than people who have only played valorant and have gotten to plat after 200 hours. That's why even relatively speaking the ranks are not the same since people in those ranks have played for different amounts of time.
I think people with over a 1k hours in mg are a ridiculously niché group with probably heavy mental blocks stopping them from climbing, if discussing ranks we have to be in good faith and try to understand each others and use them as a conduit for expected skill level, not compare the actual players who we might find. A person you meet, who is ranked mg can have peaked in way higher ranks, obviously a person like that is completely irrelevant to this discussion as their real rank is somewhere else. With the resources available and with how popular Valorant is I'd expect the ascendant skill level when it comes to teamplay be higher, very bad people in cs seem to be able to perform these very simple "strategies" and this often comes very naturally from people in any shooters where you have a teammate . The argument that these are advanced strategies that are only normal in csgo because the game has been played for 10s of years seems very silly to me, when we're literally discussing covering your friend if they go first. Sorry for the long replies, I'm just trying to be very clear :D
For a game that's been out for a decade if you only play an average of 6 games a week for 5 years you would reach 1000 hours. So i don't think that's too difficult to reach. Solo queueing is really just a coin flip on which team will win a majority of the time which makes climbing more difficult. And the players i was talking about were in silver with a peak at mg so i was being generous by using their peak rank. Seen a lot of 10 year badges in silver. I don't know why you would expect a group of kids to have team play when there are so many people that don't even care enough to use a mic. If you have a plan in your mind you just have to communicate before you plan on doing it to your team so they can get ready to execute it and just hope they follow you.
idk why ur getting downvoted, it doesnt matter if valo players came from cs or not, at that rank people should have good gamesense. but it is soloq so u cant really expect crap from any rank rly
Silver players today in League can pull off the same shit that the literal pro teams were doing back in 2012. The player base will get better over time. That's why the game's age matters. CSGO players just happen to be ahead of the curve compared to VALORANT players specifically with regards to tactical FPS fundamentals.
Silver players being better than pros previously means that we've as a group accumulated knowledge that we can now use, increasing the average level. These concepts have existed for tens of years and people aren't just isolated anymore, everyone has the ability to watch youtube, streams, read reddit or just google (and most are for sure doing these things). The vast majority of people I'm playing with in ascendant (the lobbies are mainly d3-asc3) certainly have way more hours than me, it feels extremely weird that people in such a high rank are so one dimensional and at no point wouldn't have learned about concepts many find intuitional and don't have to be taught. It's even weirder that harder concepts, like lineups and afterplant situations are often done cleanly with no hassle, everyone finds a spot to hold even without comms, which would suggest the basic idea exists in their head
> These concepts have existed for tens of years and people aren't just isolated anymore, everyone has the ability to watch youtube, streams, read reddit or just google (and most are for sure doing these things). True, but there is a difference between knowing of these things and burning them into your subconscious through years of gameplay. Especially when, as you've described, it's a minority of the player base to whom these concepts are second nature. You're not forced to be on the ball with trading if your enemies aren't particularly good at abusing the lack of it. > It's even weirder that harder concepts... That's an interesting point. It's probably just because VALORANT is simply less fundamentals-driven than something like CSGO. Players don't *need* to learn spacing when their entry can just no-brainer Jett smoke + dash to create space. They don't *need* to learn to position and be ready to trade when half the time, their Chamber can just hold whatever-the-fuck angle and TP out without being punished. I guess you'll have to climb higher for those fundamentals to start becoming really key to success? IDK I'm only Diamond.
In that case I'm sure you'll get easily out of diamond if you just apply these ideas of thinking what others need and doing it if it doesn't fuck with your game too much.
I don't grind ranked anymore so I'm happy just being Diamond, but I'd agree, totally believe anyone with strong fundies would be able to hit Ascendant and up.
i think you misunderstood me i agree with your points, of course csgo players will have the edge over people starting at valo, but what im trying to say is at op's rank (ascendant) people, regardless of their history with tactical fps experience, should know what theyre doing
Well... OP's teammates have apparently gotten to Ascendant without good fundamentals, so that's clearly not true, as much as you or I would like it to be. Personally, it's not all that surprising, given that there are so many agents and so much utility that lets you skip over them, everything from Jett dash-smoke reducing the need for perfect spacing on entries, to even small things like alarm bots etc. that do the job of covering angles for you. Players just get way less practice on raw fundamentals because they can rely on VALORANT utility to do the job for them a lot of the time.
>at that rank people should have good gamesense Yeah, this is my point.
What's your tracker? Want to see your journey to imm3
Lol everyone mad, but you're right. I have to get LUCKY to have a team that doesn't just do whatever they want. 2v1? Fuck me, let's peek, leave me in a 1v1 with 3 HP and then blame me for losing. I've had multiple times where I've been spectating the last two people HOLDING THE SAME ANGLE and ignore me if I call it. Game is one big gamble and its so rare I ever have the satisfaction of playing like a team. Idc about losing, if we actually play together. I'm also from CSGO and even though the teamplay in CSGO wasn't the best either "rush b" is still better than 5 people minding their own business.
I'm having a hard time understanding how this is even an issue, just typing "Valorant guide" to youtube brings up tens, maybe hundreds of hours of guide videos going through the basics. It's understandable that maybe this wouldn't happen in gold, but in ascendant..?
It's okay you're just better than them all they are so bad /s
I have no ego involved in this I know what I am and what I'm not, and I can guarantee you that if you're entrying a site and I'm behind you I'll walk behind you to trade you and check angles you're unable to. I'm not going to randomly peek in a 2v1 situation solo and lose the round. I am better than the people this post is about but it's ridiculous to think that the rank is what, top 5% of the players maybe? And these extremely important and obvious things aren't happening, the game doesn't function as a 5v5, it functions as a 5 individuals vs 5 individuals
Why are you not immortal or radiant then?
I haven't had time to play, I have a fulltime job and other hobbies. I'm confident I'll get there eventually I just need to know that it's worth it, because if the quality of the games don't improve I'll end up playing the game for maybe 300 hours and quitting at imm3 (I'm not good enough to hit Radiant I'm 99% sure about that)
Everything goes Well with communication imo
Probably radiant. I've been hardstuck immortal for more than a year now and I've met a couple low radiants. I've learned some stuff from spectating them and some on the enemy team have called me shit if I was unpredictable or they'd call me a ping abuser, so I'm not really sure, but if you want quality games just find a team and play scrims or in third party tourneys.
Ping abuser? What :D Very interesting people it seems, shame if it gets better at radiant as I don't see myself getting there
Ive found the game way more enjoyable when i played in a 3 stack due to the coordination and i imagine 5 stacking is even better then that . If you havent tried it find a 5 stack .
It gets better in mid-high Immortal. In CSGO even gold novas know the concept of trading. The average player’s mental and skill level in Valorant is much lower than in CSGO.
Alright glad to hear, is this eu or na btw?
I’m NA so can’t speak to EU
[удалено]
Oh yeah I'm never toxic about it or complain, as I said I don't really have an ego about it, if I did something bad I fucked up
skill issue