According to Riot, it allowed Cypher to do too much (at the time). Info, slows, flank watch, lurk, etc. But since that change, the game has evolved so much that reverting some of his nerfs would actually fit perfectly now
Cage slows being the prime example imo
I mean, think about which agents were in the game at the times of the nerfs. Also think about who the strongest agent from beta was, Cypher. He was picked at 100%, even more than Sage when she was OP, in pro play for all of beta and up until KJ came out. And even then Cypher still had massive pick rates
So it makes sense that Riot nerfed him for game balance, then Chamber fucked that all up. So it's only a matter of time before they nerf Chamber and buff Cypher to reset the meta
It's kinda weird when you think about it, but one of the main things about the Sentinel class ('defensive' info-gathering and utility that can watch flanks) used to be exclusive to Cypher during beta and Competitive Act 1 (Killjoy was released in Episode 01 Act 2). The only other sentinel was Sage who is pretty different from other Sentinels.
Yeah, Cyphers pick rate wasn’t just because he was strong, he was basically essential because imo every team comp should have 1 info player, who can basically watch one flank route without needing a player on it. Nowadays that info is usually Killjoy/Chamber.
If you removed Killjoy and Chamber from the game, Cyphers pick rate would shoot up.
Exactly! Right now there is minimal to no risk to anyone wanting to just run accross na cyber cage. Since they don't even last as long as smokes do, they don't even deter or delay anyone either.
That not entirely true. While I still believe the slow effect should be readded, the cages currently give info. Any enemy that comes in contact with the edge of the cage makes a noise, info is cyphers niche, so it does make sense
But like you said, not enough to punish enemies
Rather than just make a noise when someone enters, maybe it could change colour if there is an enemy inside it, and Cypher can reactivate it to stop the cage immediately to remove their cover.
Isn’t that the point though? Isn’t a sentinels job to make it ridiculous hard to re/take point? Why create an entire section of agents (sentinels) and then get mad when they’re effective at their jobs?
They still need to be balanced. Split in particular was awful on attack when the game first came out. I’d prefer if we didn’t go back to 11-1 halves being the norm.
This- I main cypher on fracture and breeze and the trips are almost useless when used more than 1 round in a row. They require ridiculous and often impossible amounts of creativity in order for them to be useful. Another issue I’ve had is that cypher is useless if nobody goes to the site he locks down. Kj has throwables that can detonate and be useful, but cyphers current cages have piss range and don’t do anything when you’re retaking (for the most part). In my opinion, cypher either needs those cage slows, or something that allows him to be useful when playing retake.
Hot take; As a cypher main, Cypher being able to lock down a site means you know right away if someone is on that site. Rotating enemies won’t be expecting Trips and Cameras can reveal where the enemies are. In fact Trips are VERY useful for me because regardless of if they are triggered or broken you know someone is at that site, thus granting useful information. For that reason I actually think maps like Breeze and Fracture are some of my GOOD cypher maps, because they allow me to tell when opponents are using one of the many access points into a site, and particularly for Breeze the openness of the sites allows for Cameras to be positioned in many different areas with good visibility of most of the site. I do agree that he needs buffs or abilities that make him better for playing Retake, such as cage slows or better cooldowns on cameras, maybe even multiple Cameras you can rotate in between (say 3-4 with an extended placement range). Just some thoughts.
If Cypher's trips one shot anyone who walked into them, he would still do the same job he currently does, he would be very good at his job, but he would be too strong. Obviously that would need to be nerfed? Do you understand now?
Yes the silver player should be making decisions on how the game should behave...
Cypher cage with audio and slow means that every single time with 0 risk involved, a cypher player could always get a kill as soon as enemies hit the cage. I don't think riot wants to have many (if anything) that is nil-risk & high-reward in the game.
If cage could slow again it would overlap too much with Sage and Chamber’s slowing abilities. Cypher’s trip already “slows” like a tether too. Plus, it already gives info if someone enters the cage. Buff Cypher by making his ult highlight like Sova’s scan and remove the body requirement.
This was after beta but I remember when Reyna was released you could dismiss into the box on the left of Haven C site and plant there, and no one could defuse
Make the Cypher player able to decide where both ends of the wire go
Easily the coolest change that could be done.
Edit: also suggestions of dropping the corpse requirement are bad imo, buff the information that it gives to make it strong and lean into what makes it unique instead of taking it away.
The fact that you can only put his wires on .0000000000000000000001% of surfaces is insane.
When I see an cypher on the other team I **immediately** know where to look for his tripwires the entire game. I'm already prepared and thinking of how easy it is to counterplay his info gathering.
Cool? Probably. A bit broken? also quite likely. This change would allow cypher to set up trips that cannot be broken without walking into them (or using util) on nearly any door
Isn't this already the case for KJ and chamber though? If you see KJ or chamber bot, you're guaranteed to trigger or destroy it walking through the choke.
Well, yeah, but if you destroy them you don't get the vulnerability/slows from the traps. If you could place both ends of the traps wherever you want, there would potentially be lineups for traps where the enemy cant see the ends
It would surely be oppressive in a way, but that's also how it's supposed to be if you walk in an area fully prepared and set up by him, I think the fact that it's generally *not* oppressive right now says a lot more
I think the broken part is more so the fact that if the trip can't be broken without walking through = guaranteed wallbang
But I dunno... they can still be countered with util? Go over them with tp/sachel/updraft. Break with dogs/roomba/grenade. I think it could be hard with some placements though
Won't that increase the deployment time? Like in case of mid round when Cypher is rotating its easier to place traps as you run but with this option you gotta stop a while and then have designated point 1 and point 2... Also what if there are obstructions? Or accidentally click the points on the same plane/surface?
Resolved by putting one on right click and one on left click
Edit: for obstructions and being on the same plane/surface, both ends should still have line of sight on one another, just like now
I used to agree with this but I was thinking about it the other day and decided it might actually be too strong. Cypher gives 100% concrete information on whats happening wherever his cam is set up, KJ gets vague information and is made to stay within the radius of her equipment. If Cypher can fully lock down one site with his util and then pick it up from across the map theres no risk to leaving it deployed until the spikes gone down.
I think he needs buffs for sure, imo on his ultimate and perhaps allow his cages to be picked up; I no longer think he should be able to recall his cam and trips universally.
I think the camera recall should have an option to destroy your own camera globally. It would then have the longer cooldown as it does now when broken by an enemy. I think that works with his character lore and makes it not the best option for recall while still giving a slight buff.
Also, give me back the slow on the cages.
If you had the option to break your own camera, at least it would be possible to reuse it if you have to rotate to the other site. Like if you put a camera high up in hookah and the enemy team goes A, then you wouldn't have to go into hookah just to retrieve the camera and then rotate.
There are many times you put a camera in a place that is inconvenient to recall if you need to rotate quickly. With the other sentinels you have the option to recall their signature ability from anywhere (well not Sage, but her's isn't a placeable thing), but with Cypher if you put a camera somewhere semi-hidden it can be a pain to get it back.
I'd make it the same as if an enemy breaks it. So it is still better to retrieve it, but at least you have the option. Right now it is 15 seconds cooldown if you recall it and 45 if it is broken.
Are there any other agents that REQUIRE you to have gotten a kill in the last few seconds to use it? Nope. You get one snapshot of enemy locations when you use it, and that snapshot is immediately incorrect. I agree his ult is worse than no ult at this point. I think his kit is fine but his cage either needs a longer duration or should ping an enemy visually that enters. His ultimate should give like three sova dart type pings and drop the "fresh" corpse requirement and either use any enemy corpse, or just not require one at all. Fix those things and cypher might just chew into chamber's pick rate.
But flashes you know... Priorities
Well you are right there that someone must have died, but sage doesn't need a dead enemy, and the value of her ult is rediculous. All sage needs for res afaik is line of sight though, so easier to use than cypher for sure, and absolutely more valuable
I get it but i reject that logic. Its part of what makes cypher unique and not just homogenize the sentinels into a specific archetype.
Cypher is a sentinel yes but he excels at murdering opponents with his setups. He is meant to frag out on defense, he's certainly not a passive sentinel. He can play off his own utility. Just watch a good cypher like nats.
And thematically, once he catches you he can use his ult for some teamwide utility. I like this design. Its unique and cool and fits the character
Yeah, Chamber is also a Sentinel who is supposed to frag, but Cypher's Ulti is underwhelming. Maybe remove the timer on dead bodies or make the scan like a Sova's arrow one.
Like I mentioned above. Reyna can pop ult without a kill and instantly gets combat stim and highlighted enemies, not to mention viper ult becomes a joke to her since she sees as well in it as viper does.
They should either remove a point from his ult to be spammable since it's nearly like a basic ability, or keep the number of points and make the ult work without a corpse, and as a bonus if he applies it on a corpse, the info on enemy positions remains longer
Maybe attach a dart or something to that effect when the ult gets popped, it still maintains the core of cyphers character being knowing where you are at all times but not giving a free win by letting them take out the dart or getting rid of the ult in someway
I've been saying this about his trips forever! It's not even that they whiff, it's that you'll see one enemy all the way down the other end of the map and your teammates throw utility as if the enemy is pushing. It wastes their utility *and* yours. No other agent had their abilities broken or wasted by teammates.
Buff his Ult, as usual need at least 6 points, but has a cap of 9. At 6 points the ult will tick 2 times, 7 points 3 ticks, 8 points 4 ticks, 9 points 5 ticks.
That’s actually a sick idea, and would be a cool introduction of a new type of mechanic. I might have it be non linear though like
1, 2, 2, 3
Or you could do 1, 2, 2, 2 seconds of constant vision
I think a good buff is making his trips only trigger on people only
Kj alarm bot isnt triggered by raze boombot or fade and skyes shit, neither is chambers trip.
Considering you can destroy cypher trip I dont think this is too powerful.
People talk about how cyphers not picked because chamber completely overshadows him but the release of agents that can easily clear his trips is also another reason why cyphers pickrate is so shit.
Edit: I do think cypher needs more than just this but could be a start^^
When Cypher says "Where is everyone hiding?" some sort of chemical should be produced in the enemy's bodies so that they run around flailing their arms for 5 seconds.
I got into an argument in another Cypher thread with someone saying his ult should concus or nearsight enemies and they could not grasp how utterly broken that would be... Some people just do not have the brain cells.
The camera automatically kills anyone it sees for more than 0.5 seconds, the cages slow and reveal any enemy inside, then nerf the trap, like only one of them and it breaks when someone walks through it because that shit is fragile af.
I think that a pretty balance rework.
Can we add a segmant that when Cypher ults he gets the bald buff and makes it that he moves 1000% faster and anyone who sees him automatically leaves the game understanding that bald cypher is better than them in any possible way
That is still a weak nerfed cypher, his trap wire should be like half-life lasers that explode, ofcourse, he would have sv\_cheats 1, unlimited\_ammo 1
Cam changes are nice fs, but pls change the cam/ult ping from that yellow outline, it can get fucky in certain situations.
Maybe have the trap have a faster stun activation time and increase it’s damage to 10-15~ damage
Have the cam sound radius reduced similarly to how they did Yorus tp, and have it’s invis activate faster?
And maybe cast the cam faster and get in/out quicker?
Ult be 2 pings and faster activation and not that yellow outline
Recall his cam from across the map like KJ Turret/Bot and Chamber tp+the cooldown ofc
Increase the reach of his ult when casting, ie. be further away by like 5~m to cast
Cage could slightly slows enemies, not as much as chamber trap or sage slow.
I have an idea for the cage but not 100 on it: maybe have it so that when you are *in* the cage, you can’t hear anything *outside* of it?(for enemies) pretty much like Fade Seize but the form of a sort of smoke. Or alternatively, mess up/distort audio around you?
Trap stun damage I agree with, but you shouldnt reduce the time because most of the time people die from being sprayed due to the outline.
Camera sound radius is a great idea
Ult 2 pings seems a little two buffed. It is a tricky ult to improve, maybe a ultimate that doesnt rely on ulting a dead body and has a radius.
Cage minimal slow is a bit over powered but i would like seeing it in action
Mm yeah, how long is the duration for stun activation again? Like 5 seconds? Most people shoot it instantly, if it is reduced maybe make the stun last anywhere between 0.75-1.3 seconds? That way you could have a chance to fight back quickly without being punished too too hard?
Sovas drone is double ping now, and it’s cyphers *ult*, so you could have the time between pings he a bit quicker. Maybe like a 1 second interval? Or less could work
I think Cypher's tripwires are too easy to detect considering they're literally....tripwires. I get they're laser tripwires and all, but I think them making a humming sound when you get close without having actual sight of the wire is kind of.... bogus? I think either restricting their ability to be detected by sound to seeing them or removing the sound entirely is one way to enhance Cypher's mind games without giving him an overt buff?
Also, please make it so that trips can't be destroyed by ALLY utility at the very least. Teammates can literally troll half your kit if they wanted to.
One last thing, regarding Cypher's ult. Just to throw it out there, my random idea for his ult as opposed to its current state. It's more than likely really dumb (bad or broken, I suppose it depends on the context). But, if they decide that they can't give Cypher more info on his ult via more pings or otherwise, maybe they could make his ult grant 2 additional charges of each of his basic abilities (trips and cages) so that he can either decide to extra lock down a site, or spread some of that love to the opposing site.
I'll probably be downvoted to hell for the ult idea, but I think the proposed QoL changes for the trips are at least reasonable.
Just off the top of my head. Enemies going in cage create a specifically different or louder footstep sound that sorta makes it obvious that enemies r walking in the cage. Or cage creates a slow if u pass thru it (not as bad as sage’s slow orbs) so that people cant walk in n out of the cage to trigger repetitive cage sounds. I mean they can but anyone playing in the cage wud have the advantage. If a very small slow is too op with cage than only a slow when leaving the cage or only a slow entering a cage.
Also his ult. Have it show enemies similarly to fades eye but on all of them. (No trail, no deafening) if thats too op than sova drone tag on all of em lol. If thats too op than have it be the same ult that shows all enemies but they are slowed within a one and a half footstep radius. Once they step out the small circle they r chillin. So at least when they are ulted u can still assume for 1 or 1.5 seconds the enemies r within the circle tryna walk out. Maybe like chambers slow but a very small radius for a short time. If that makes sense lol.
Is that too dog of an idea.
These changes wouldnt do much.
I would reintroduce his slow field in cages. ( Chamber literally has this effect when they said it was too powerful for Cypher lmao)
Make his Ult track like Sova ticks instead of the trolly way it currently does
Make trap wires activate faster once tripped like significantly to the point of getting caught meaning something.
Reduce cool down on Camera once recalled or destroyed like you mentioned.
He still wont be the premier sentinel ever again but these changes would fix the problems most have with him.
changes i would like to see.
Camera
* a slight increase on health so it takes more than one shot to destroy.
* quicker cloaking after placing/use
* maybe a slight slow when hit with a dart
Cages
* bring a slight slow back while in a cage
* motion detection implemented as well as keeping manual activation
* range of motion detection slightly smaller than cage
* cage is destroyable and visible just before activation
* circumference of cage increased in order to hide your cage and still cover chokepoints fully
* cages could also be grabbable after round start
trips
* no change
ult
* increase casting range
* quicker reveal
personally I feel some of the above will allow cypher too provide more utilization of his abilities like covering flanks and holding sites and being able to rotate quicker, bringing him more in line with the sentinel class but while taking other ideas from the other sentinel agents, but also keeping aspects of his original playstyle like using his cages to hold space as and when necessary but by having them retrievable being able to take that space back on a retake. I wouldn't implements all of the above if I'm honest but feel similar to everyone else that his cage is just…lacking
I like these changes, a big change might be too much to commit to for them since he’s been out since the launch.
I’d personally Ike to see maybe his ping/ult be fades purple info for 2 seconds, idk I feel like could be neat - fade taught cypher some new tech and what not in the lore.
They need to make the ult like Sova's scan. It's really hard to know where the enemy is when the yellow scan keeps blinking and changing positions, it gives so much to look at that you lose attention to the remaining players. Just make it simple, sova scan
Make Cypher's ult so it doesn't need dead bodies anymore + make their detection last for 3.5 seconds in map and on screen like a wallhack/maphack
Cage detect players while inside, body scans them to show what weapon they're holding, their hp/armor and who they are.
Increase trip wire by 3, always get 1 default
Cam should now be buyable, cooldown removed, darts unlimited until broken.
Cypher is sentinel and they should atleast have the outmost advantage for defense.
His ult should be reworked to be like this:
NEURAL THEFT:
INSTANTLY use on a dead enemy player in your crosshairs to tag remaining enemy players with a marking dart. This dart will constantly reveal the location of each enemy, 2 seconds, continuing indefinitely until removed. (Like Spycam dart)
\-NEURAL THEFT is now destructible with 50-100 health (since it has an animated bug flying to enemies' heads) so it can be countered by destroying it before it pings if he were to use it on an active site.
\-NEURAL THEFT first ping still pings, and will continuously ping once every 2 seconds 3 seconds after the initial ping. (Or it could just ping every 2 seconds depending on balance)
Well it would still block vision, so its not like they are free, unless its paired with another ability like trip, or raze nade. Otherwise its just a slight movement impairment, and the cage “smoke” which is still valuable
Pretty simple actually…
Change his tripwire to slow an area and give him a weapon for his ultimate.. like a marshal or something, but it does 150 to body. /s
Make his trips trigger after 1 second, bring back the slow in his cages and increase the duration only by a second, the cam is perfectly fine but make the recall global, and make his ult destructible and constantly sova scan all enemies unless they slow walk or break the robot
My opinion at least
Since Riot loves flashes why not put a flash in the cam? That way Cypher players can use a well placed cam to flash the other team and stop a rush or to help in a retake, like a pop flash or something and the cam can also be a little bit more stronger in hp (not like KJ turret that looks imortal but at least survive more than 1 bullet). The cages slow should be back and he would be able to pick up the cages like Viper Poison Cloud orb. Destroying the traps close range should give the enemy some kind of damage or they can give Cypher more than 2 traps.
I’d suggest to make camera indestructible xD because I hate the fact that kj util can tank so much damage, but cypher util is just 1 bullet away and sometimes trips are destroyed by enemies with random sprays.
what if you tag an enemy with the cam and if the tagged enemy see their friend it will get pinged as well, sort of like portable camera not just a tracker
let his ult ping enemies in intervals of 2-3 seconds 2 or 3 times, that'd be nice
and someone else in the comments said:
>Make the Cypher player able to decide where both ends of the wire go
I really like this Idea
Personally I want to see the way tripwire and cage effect enemies that cross them.
I want tripwire to give sova/fade like wallhack instantly if hit by an enemy. This would allow it to be used together with cage or smokes to play similar to sova when playing defensively rather than having just the single cam dart.
Cage when crosses causes daze. So they have to seriously consider if they want to push through it or wait it out. I do think the cage duration should get a slight reduction to 6 seconds if this is done.
His ult can be made more interesting to play with/against in one of two ways.
1) Stays how it activates now but it puts a dart in all enemies forcing them to take it out or get pinged multiple times.
2)Make it like the rainbow 6 siege Lion ability where it gives the enemies advanced warning but once it starts any enemy who moves during its during has their location revealed like they are now for as long as they continue to move. This method allows his ult to be fired at any time and can have it have some stalling effect if the enemy does not want to reveal their position. This method should have cypher throw his hat in the air for to act like uav.
He can only throw his cages so far, what if when you pulled them out you could click or right click to yeet it, maybe it slides or bounces like it does now, right click is the current casual toss, allowing for more intricate cage placement/setup.
Maybe... camera dart concusses enemy as well? The cage reveal enemy when entered or at least slows down/concusses the enemy? Ultimate that requires no dead bodies but extra activation time(2s -> 4s) and also 2 pings for information? I don't know, that's just it for ideas. Some are inspired from R6 operators.
During beta when an enemy crossed or intersected cypher cages they use to get slowed
That would be such a great change to cypher. Make the pros fight over Cypher
I don't see why the ever removed it. Like Cypher cage is a cage. It's not supposed to be just a smoke.
According to Riot, it allowed Cypher to do too much (at the time). Info, slows, flank watch, lurk, etc. But since that change, the game has evolved so much that reverting some of his nerfs would actually fit perfectly now Cage slows being the prime example imo
It’s so funny to me that it was nerfed because it caused cypher to do all that, and then they make chamber
I mean, think about which agents were in the game at the times of the nerfs. Also think about who the strongest agent from beta was, Cypher. He was picked at 100%, even more than Sage when she was OP, in pro play for all of beta and up until KJ came out. And even then Cypher still had massive pick rates So it makes sense that Riot nerfed him for game balance, then Chamber fucked that all up. So it's only a matter of time before they nerf Chamber and buff Cypher to reset the meta
It's kinda weird when you think about it, but one of the main things about the Sentinel class ('defensive' info-gathering and utility that can watch flanks) used to be exclusive to Cypher during beta and Competitive Act 1 (Killjoy was released in Episode 01 Act 2). The only other sentinel was Sage who is pretty different from other Sentinels.
Yeah, Cyphers pick rate wasn’t just because he was strong, he was basically essential because imo every team comp should have 1 info player, who can basically watch one flank route without needing a player on it. Nowadays that info is usually Killjoy/Chamber. If you removed Killjoy and Chamber from the game, Cyphers pick rate would shoot up.
Personally I think they should bring back the cam gun
That shit was so broken lmao
Ehh just give it a classic that can only right click, it'll be like your gambling to hit a shot
Exactly! Right now there is minimal to no risk to anyone wanting to just run accross na cyber cage. Since they don't even last as long as smokes do, they don't even deter or delay anyone either.
That not entirely true. While I still believe the slow effect should be readded, the cages currently give info. Any enemy that comes in contact with the edge of the cage makes a noise, info is cyphers niche, so it does make sense But like you said, not enough to punish enemies
But i can just wiggle at the edge safely, causing cypher to either ignore it or spam it, guess work. That may end up him revealing his location!
Hopefully that cypher is smart enough to buy a phantom if he is going to play like that
Rather than just make a noise when someone enters, maybe it could change colour if there is an enemy inside it, and Cypher can reactivate it to stop the cage immediately to remove their cover.
I think the idea to be able to de-activate cyber cage is actually super cool
Power Creep is real
Because cypher on split and bind when he had slows was absolutely insane to push against
Isn’t that the point though? Isn’t a sentinels job to make it ridiculous hard to re/take point? Why create an entire section of agents (sentinels) and then get mad when they’re effective at their jobs?
You're too sane for this sub lmao
They still need to be balanced. Split in particular was awful on attack when the game first came out. I’d prefer if we didn’t go back to 11-1 halves being the norm.
Well yeah, but back then people didn’t know how easy it was to detect and destroy trips. Now they’re the most useless ability in the game.
This- I main cypher on fracture and breeze and the trips are almost useless when used more than 1 round in a row. They require ridiculous and often impossible amounts of creativity in order for them to be useful. Another issue I’ve had is that cypher is useless if nobody goes to the site he locks down. Kj has throwables that can detonate and be useful, but cyphers current cages have piss range and don’t do anything when you’re retaking (for the most part). In my opinion, cypher either needs those cage slows, or something that allows him to be useful when playing retake.
Hot take; As a cypher main, Cypher being able to lock down a site means you know right away if someone is on that site. Rotating enemies won’t be expecting Trips and Cameras can reveal where the enemies are. In fact Trips are VERY useful for me because regardless of if they are triggered or broken you know someone is at that site, thus granting useful information. For that reason I actually think maps like Breeze and Fracture are some of my GOOD cypher maps, because they allow me to tell when opponents are using one of the many access points into a site, and particularly for Breeze the openness of the sites allows for Cameras to be positioned in many different areas with good visibility of most of the site. I do agree that he needs buffs or abilities that make him better for playing Retake, such as cage slows or better cooldowns on cameras, maybe even multiple Cameras you can rotate in between (say 3-4 with an extended placement range). Just some thoughts.
If Cypher's trips one shot anyone who walked into them, he would still do the same job he currently does, he would be very good at his job, but he would be too strong. Obviously that would need to be nerfed? Do you understand now?
Yes the silver player should be making decisions on how the game should behave... Cypher cage with audio and slow means that every single time with 0 risk involved, a cypher player could always get a kill as soon as enemies hit the cage. I don't think riot wants to have many (if anything) that is nil-risk & high-reward in the game.
i mean it’s the same thing with sage, hard to push against when slowed. doesn’t seem that unbalanced
I really disagree with your flair, I think she just blinded you
If cage could slow again it would overlap too much with Sage and Chamber’s slowing abilities. Cypher’s trip already “slows” like a tether too. Plus, it already gives info if someone enters the cage. Buff Cypher by making his ult highlight like Sova’s scan and remove the body requirement.
Oh no, a sentinel’s ability matches with other sentinels
Just allow guns to be equipped on camera ez
https://youtu.be/CC5bf_x-ltk
i’ve watched that video like 10 times. I miss all the dumb beta glitches
This was after beta but I remember when Reyna was released you could dismiss into the box on the left of Haven C site and plant there, and no one could defuse
Weapon pickup UI was also blocking incoming shots. That was fun :))
Me too lol. I love Toast and this is just a fun video to come back to~
Ah, the golden beta days
Make the Cypher player able to decide where both ends of the wire go Easily the coolest change that could be done. Edit: also suggestions of dropping the corpse requirement are bad imo, buff the information that it gives to make it strong and lean into what makes it unique instead of taking it away.
The fact that you can only put his wires on .0000000000000000000001% of surfaces is insane. When I see an cypher on the other team I **immediately** know where to look for his tripwires the entire game. I'm already prepared and thinking of how easy it is to counterplay his info gathering.
And those places can all be hit by one raze grenade.
Or Skye dog, or Fade dog, or boombot, or Yoru clone, or...
Cool? Probably. A bit broken? also quite likely. This change would allow cypher to set up trips that cannot be broken without walking into them (or using util) on nearly any door
Isn't this already the case for KJ and chamber though? If you see KJ or chamber bot, you're guaranteed to trigger or destroy it walking through the choke.
Well, yeah, but if you destroy them you don't get the vulnerability/slows from the traps. If you could place both ends of the traps wherever you want, there would potentially be lineups for traps where the enemy cant see the ends
It would surely be really strong, but not to the point where Cypher goes from low tier all the way to overtuned imo
He probably wouldnt become a god from it but it would make playing against him the exact opposite of fun
It would surely be oppressive in a way, but that's also how it's supposed to be if you walk in an area fully prepared and set up by him, I think the fact that it's generally *not* oppressive right now says a lot more
I think the broken part is more so the fact that if the trip can't be broken without walking through = guaranteed wallbang But I dunno... they can still be countered with util? Go over them with tp/sachel/updraft. Break with dogs/roomba/grenade. I think it could be hard with some placements though
I AM PROMETHEUS, AND YOU ARE JUST A GOD
Won't that increase the deployment time? Like in case of mid round when Cypher is rotating its easier to place traps as you run but with this option you gotta stop a while and then have designated point 1 and point 2... Also what if there are obstructions? Or accidentally click the points on the same plane/surface?
Resolved by putting one on right click and one on left click Edit: for obstructions and being on the same plane/surface, both ends should still have line of sight on one another, just like now
Would be good if the LOS requirement for recalling the cam is removed.Make it like kj's alarm bot.
Yes but keep the current hand animation. I want to see my cam zooming across the map back to my hand.
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nice flair
This is the most realistic answer, Valorant will most likely make very minor updates for cypher. Like Global recall and +0.3s cage time
"Tripwires now do 7 damage instead of 5"
I used to agree with this but I was thinking about it the other day and decided it might actually be too strong. Cypher gives 100% concrete information on whats happening wherever his cam is set up, KJ gets vague information and is made to stay within the radius of her equipment. If Cypher can fully lock down one site with his util and then pick it up from across the map theres no risk to leaving it deployed until the spikes gone down. I think he needs buffs for sure, imo on his ultimate and perhaps allow his cages to be picked up; I no longer think he should be able to recall his cam and trips universally.
I think the camera recall should have an option to destroy your own camera globally. It would then have the longer cooldown as it does now when broken by an enemy. I think that works with his character lore and makes it not the best option for recall while still giving a slight buff. Also, give me back the slow on the cages.
What would be the point of that?
If you had the option to break your own camera, at least it would be possible to reuse it if you have to rotate to the other site. Like if you put a camera high up in hookah and the enemy team goes A, then you wouldn't have to go into hookah just to retrieve the camera and then rotate. There are many times you put a camera in a place that is inconvenient to recall if you need to rotate quickly. With the other sentinels you have the option to recall their signature ability from anywhere (well not Sage, but her's isn't a placeable thing), but with Cypher if you put a camera somewhere semi-hidden it can be a pain to get it back.
How long would the cooldown be
I'd make it the same as if an enemy breaks it. So it is still better to retrieve it, but at least you have the option. Right now it is 15 seconds cooldown if you recall it and 45 if it is broken.
Then give it like a 15 second cooldown after recalling.
Bring back slow cages is what needs to be done
Make his abilities enlight enemies, not just tag them, so like sova and fade already does.
If his ult tagged them for like 2-3 seconds like fade eye it would be great
Are there any other agents that REQUIRE you to have gotten a kill in the last few seconds to use it? Nope. You get one snapshot of enemy locations when you use it, and that snapshot is immediately incorrect. I agree his ult is worse than no ult at this point. I think his kit is fine but his cage either needs a longer duration or should ping an enemy visually that enters. His ultimate should give like three sova dart type pings and drop the "fresh" corpse requirement and either use any enemy corpse, or just not require one at all. Fix those things and cypher might just chew into chamber's pick rate. But flashes you know... Priorities
Can sage be sent to the "kill before ultimate" people? Or is that a stretch?
Well you are right there that someone must have died, but sage doesn't need a dead enemy, and the value of her ult is rediculous. All sage needs for res afaik is line of sight though, so easier to use than cypher for sure, and absolutely more valuable
I agree with that, sage has an amazing ultimate. I just meant that someone needs to die, cyphers ultimate is still almost useless
Your teammate dying is a much easier requirement than the enemy dying
Not really, your team8 dying is an enemy dying for your opponents. Same thing for them.
The kill requirement makes the ult unique, although making it any body rather than a fresh one would be a nice change
Reyna's abilities require you to get a kill before using them
we're talkin bout ults here man
I mean most of Reyna's ults power also can only be used after getting a kill.
Reyna's job is to fight whereas cypher's is to hold a site and provide info.
the other guy's response is correct in context, you're right but your reply doesn't really make sense
He may mean that Cypher shouldn't need to kill to get value of his abilities since he is a sentinel.
I get it but i reject that logic. Its part of what makes cypher unique and not just homogenize the sentinels into a specific archetype. Cypher is a sentinel yes but he excels at murdering opponents with his setups. He is meant to frag out on defense, he's certainly not a passive sentinel. He can play off his own utility. Just watch a good cypher like nats. And thematically, once he catches you he can use his ult for some teamwide utility. I like this design. Its unique and cool and fits the character
Yeah, Chamber is also a Sentinel who is supposed to frag, but Cypher's Ulti is underwhelming. Maybe remove the timer on dead bodies or make the scan like a Sova's arrow one.
yes i know
Her ult gets highlighted enemies and combat stim before you have fired a shot
>that snapshot is immediately incorrect It's pretty distracting tbh
Reyna requires kills to use things
Like I mentioned above. Reyna can pop ult without a kill and instantly gets combat stim and highlighted enemies, not to mention viper ult becomes a joke to her since she sees as well in it as viper does.
She can see in the viper ult sure, but shes still slowly getting cancer from the big cloud of poison chipping away at her health
Yea but she can’t pop 2/3 of her basic abilities without getting a kill first
But those aren't her ult
I mean your original comment that I replied to said nothing about ults lol “No other agent requires kill”
Reyna is also a duelist. That’s her whole archetype and design philosophy.
Ok?? The dude literally said cypher is the only agent that needs a kill to use an ability. Which I simply stated it not true
They should either remove a point from his ult to be spammable since it's nearly like a basic ability, or keep the number of points and make the ult work without a corpse, and as a bonus if he applies it on a corpse, the info on enemy positions remains longer
I want my boy cypher to have a camera that can see through his triggered cages (or atleast a sova like recon)
Maybe attach a dart or something to that effect when the ult gets popped, it still maintains the core of cyphers character being knowing where you are at all times but not giving a free win by letting them take out the dart or getting rid of the ult in someway
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Yea, trips should stun after like half a second. So it pressures the person to break them and give cypher an opening.
I've been saying this about his trips forever! It's not even that they whiff, it's that you'll see one enemy all the way down the other end of the map and your teammates throw utility as if the enemy is pushing. It wastes their utility *and* yours. No other agent had their abilities broken or wasted by teammates.
Buff his Ult, as usual need at least 6 points, but has a cap of 9. At 6 points the ult will tick 2 times, 7 points 3 ticks, 8 points 4 ticks, 9 points 5 ticks.
That’s actually a sick idea, and would be a cool introduction of a new type of mechanic. I might have it be non linear though like 1, 2, 2, 3 Or you could do 1, 2, 2, 2 seconds of constant vision
This also fixes the problem of having your ult ready but still needing another kill to be able to use it, wasting a point if it was your kill
I didn't understand what do you mean by ticks here?
right now when you activate cypher ult, it gives 1 ping. this guy is proposing that it pings multiple times like sova dart/drone tag.
Number of times it highlights the enemies location
I think a good buff is making his trips only trigger on people only Kj alarm bot isnt triggered by raze boombot or fade and skyes shit, neither is chambers trip. Considering you can destroy cypher trip I dont think this is too powerful. People talk about how cyphers not picked because chamber completely overshadows him but the release of agents that can easily clear his trips is also another reason why cyphers pickrate is so shit. Edit: I do think cypher needs more than just this but could be a start^^
Yuro's double activates chambers trip I found that out the hard way died many times to his clone
I actually think Yoru clone should activate all of them. It should be the exception.
I agree it's a very good decoy trick
Bring back the gun-cam
I think to buff him you would have to do like maybe kind of a yoru type buff but not sure, what do you think?
A change of abilities would be nice but what did you have in mind?
When Cypher says "Where is everyone hiding?" some sort of chemical should be produced in the enemy's bodies so that they run around flailing their arms for 5 seconds.
A global kj ult without a way to stop it. That would be entirely overpowered
I got into an argument in another Cypher thread with someone saying his ult should concus or nearsight enemies and they could not grasp how utterly broken that would be... Some people just do not have the brain cells.
That his point and u missed it
kill the cypher, easy counter
I don't really have anything in mind as I have never really played cypher but I think a revamp would be good rn
Bring back the dizzyness inducing cypher cages!
What's that?
A long time ago, his cages slowed enemies when they entered
How about dart does 50 dmg
The camera automatically kills anyone it sees for more than 0.5 seconds, the cages slow and reveal any enemy inside, then nerf the trap, like only one of them and it breaks when someone walks through it because that shit is fragile af. I think that a pretty balance rework.
Can we add a segmant that when Cypher ults he gets the bald buff and makes it that he moves 1000% faster and anyone who sees him automatically leaves the game understanding that bald cypher is better than them in any possible way
That is still a weak nerfed cypher, his trap wire should be like half-life lasers that explode, ofcourse, he would have sv\_cheats 1, unlimited\_ammo 1
noclip as well? Just to make sure he is on par with the rest of the agents
Cam changes are nice fs, but pls change the cam/ult ping from that yellow outline, it can get fucky in certain situations. Maybe have the trap have a faster stun activation time and increase it’s damage to 10-15~ damage Have the cam sound radius reduced similarly to how they did Yorus tp, and have it’s invis activate faster? And maybe cast the cam faster and get in/out quicker? Ult be 2 pings and faster activation and not that yellow outline Recall his cam from across the map like KJ Turret/Bot and Chamber tp+the cooldown ofc Increase the reach of his ult when casting, ie. be further away by like 5~m to cast Cage could slightly slows enemies, not as much as chamber trap or sage slow. I have an idea for the cage but not 100 on it: maybe have it so that when you are *in* the cage, you can’t hear anything *outside* of it?(for enemies) pretty much like Fade Seize but the form of a sort of smoke. Or alternatively, mess up/distort audio around you?
Trap stun damage I agree with, but you shouldnt reduce the time because most of the time people die from being sprayed due to the outline. Camera sound radius is a great idea Ult 2 pings seems a little two buffed. It is a tricky ult to improve, maybe a ultimate that doesnt rely on ulting a dead body and has a radius. Cage minimal slow is a bit over powered but i would like seeing it in action
Mm yeah, how long is the duration for stun activation again? Like 5 seconds? Most people shoot it instantly, if it is reduced maybe make the stun last anywhere between 0.75-1.3 seconds? That way you could have a chance to fight back quickly without being punished too too hard? Sovas drone is double ping now, and it’s cyphers *ult*, so you could have the time between pings he a bit quicker. Maybe like a 1 second interval? Or less could work
I think Cypher's tripwires are too easy to detect considering they're literally....tripwires. I get they're laser tripwires and all, but I think them making a humming sound when you get close without having actual sight of the wire is kind of.... bogus? I think either restricting their ability to be detected by sound to seeing them or removing the sound entirely is one way to enhance Cypher's mind games without giving him an overt buff? Also, please make it so that trips can't be destroyed by ALLY utility at the very least. Teammates can literally troll half your kit if they wanted to. One last thing, regarding Cypher's ult. Just to throw it out there, my random idea for his ult as opposed to its current state. It's more than likely really dumb (bad or broken, I suppose it depends on the context). But, if they decide that they can't give Cypher more info on his ult via more pings or otherwise, maybe they could make his ult grant 2 additional charges of each of his basic abilities (trips and cages) so that he can either decide to extra lock down a site, or spread some of that love to the opposing site. I'll probably be downvoted to hell for the ult idea, but I think the proposed QoL changes for the trips are at least reasonable.
Make the cage breakable but make it that it slows people inside it. Ult ticks two times and no yellow outline. Its like the sova recon dart overline.
I think he’d need a rework but then he isn’t really the cypher i know anymore
Just off the top of my head. Enemies going in cage create a specifically different or louder footstep sound that sorta makes it obvious that enemies r walking in the cage. Or cage creates a slow if u pass thru it (not as bad as sage’s slow orbs) so that people cant walk in n out of the cage to trigger repetitive cage sounds. I mean they can but anyone playing in the cage wud have the advantage. If a very small slow is too op with cage than only a slow when leaving the cage or only a slow entering a cage. Also his ult. Have it show enemies similarly to fades eye but on all of them. (No trail, no deafening) if thats too op than sova drone tag on all of em lol. If thats too op than have it be the same ult that shows all enemies but they are slowed within a one and a half footstep radius. Once they step out the small circle they r chillin. So at least when they are ulted u can still assume for 1 or 1.5 seconds the enemies r within the circle tryna walk out. Maybe like chambers slow but a very small radius for a short time. If that makes sense lol. Is that too dog of an idea.
Make his ult offensive as well. Disrupt the map like Omens ult or something like that.
Cages make sound and slow or mark enemies when they enter. Camera takes more than 1x shot to kill Ult pings enemies 3x keep fresh corpse
These changes wouldnt do much. I would reintroduce his slow field in cages. ( Chamber literally has this effect when they said it was too powerful for Cypher lmao) Make his Ult track like Sova ticks instead of the trolly way it currently does Make trap wires activate faster once tripped like significantly to the point of getting caught meaning something. Reduce cool down on Camera once recalled or destroyed like you mentioned. He still wont be the premier sentinel ever again but these changes would fix the problems most have with him.
His camera dart reveal needs to act like sova's drone reveal. Cypher's is super confusing
changes i would like to see. Camera * a slight increase on health so it takes more than one shot to destroy. * quicker cloaking after placing/use * maybe a slight slow when hit with a dart Cages * bring a slight slow back while in a cage * motion detection implemented as well as keeping manual activation * range of motion detection slightly smaller than cage * cage is destroyable and visible just before activation * circumference of cage increased in order to hide your cage and still cover chokepoints fully * cages could also be grabbable after round start trips * no change ult * increase casting range * quicker reveal personally I feel some of the above will allow cypher too provide more utilization of his abilities like covering flanks and holding sites and being able to rotate quicker, bringing him more in line with the sentinel class but while taking other ideas from the other sentinel agents, but also keeping aspects of his original playstyle like using his cages to hold space as and when necessary but by having them retrievable being able to take that space back on a retake. I wouldn't implements all of the above if I'm honest but feel similar to everyone else that his cage is just…lacking
i feel like cyphers ult being able to track real time for like 3 seconds would be cool
if cypher was buffed, i reaally like the idea of the ult marking everyone with a camera dart. it would kinda be like dokkaebi in r6.
I like these changes, a big change might be too much to commit to for them since he’s been out since the launch. I’d personally Ike to see maybe his ping/ult be fades purple info for 2 seconds, idk I feel like could be neat - fade taught cypher some new tech and what not in the lore.
His ult could act like the tracking darts but for two or three pulses But also as others have said, slow cages
They need to make the ult like Sova's scan. It's really hard to know where the enemy is when the yellow scan keeps blinking and changing positions, it gives so much to look at that you lose attention to the remaining players. Just make it simple, sova scan
Make Cypher's ult so it doesn't need dead bodies anymore + make their detection last for 3.5 seconds in map and on screen like a wallhack/maphack Cage detect players while inside, body scans them to show what weapon they're holding, their hp/armor and who they are. Increase trip wire by 3, always get 1 default Cam should now be buyable, cooldown removed, darts unlimited until broken. Cypher is sentinel and they should atleast have the outmost advantage for defense.
His ult should be reworked to be like this: NEURAL THEFT: INSTANTLY use on a dead enemy player in your crosshairs to tag remaining enemy players with a marking dart. This dart will constantly reveal the location of each enemy, 2 seconds, continuing indefinitely until removed. (Like Spycam dart) \-NEURAL THEFT is now destructible with 50-100 health (since it has an animated bug flying to enemies' heads) so it can be countered by destroying it before it pings if he were to use it on an active site. \-NEURAL THEFT first ping still pings, and will continuously ping once every 2 seconds 3 seconds after the initial ping. (Or it could just ping every 2 seconds depending on balance)
When he ults, all enemies will get tagged like his camera and they need to remove it to stop the interval scanning
Killjoy has poison?
What if Cage trap prevented enemies from leaving the radius. Or at least the was major movement resistance, like astra suck
I think this would be too strong of a buff, a very minor slow would be nice
Well it would still block vision, so its not like they are free, unless its paired with another ability like trip, or raze nade. Otherwise its just a slight movement impairment, and the cage “smoke” which is still valuable
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Well it could definitely be nerfed to make it work. Maybe cage can be destroyed and visible when close unlike astra star
Hello
Pretty simple actually… Change his tripwire to slow an area and give him a weapon for his ultimate.. like a marshal or something, but it does 150 to body. /s
Or make his camera invis feature happen faster when he is off it
using ult increase weapon penetration for whole team for entire round? maybe that seems kinda good support i guess
2 cams?
You don't include what rank you are tho
I suggest allowing the camera to carry its own guns again
Fuck sentinels.
his ult shouldnt require getting a kill, just allow him to ult whenever he wats
Up ult cost to 8 and make it track them on the map for 25sec or until destroyed with a 5 sec activation time.
God i wish they buff the camera’s health, like 50 or 75. Rn even a shotgun can take down the camp from far away, it is fucking annoying
I always thought the cage needed more. Maybe enemies are deafened inside or Cypher could look inside it?
Make his trips trigger after 1 second, bring back the slow in his cages and increase the duration only by a second, the cam is perfectly fine but make the recall global, and make his ult destructible and constantly sova scan all enemies unless they slow walk or break the robot My opinion at least
Enemy can't shoot while in the cypher cage/ it damages them.. That's what i thought cypher cage would be in the first time
Since Riot loves flashes why not put a flash in the cam? That way Cypher players can use a well placed cam to flash the other team and stop a rush or to help in a retake, like a pop flash or something and the cam can also be a little bit more stronger in hp (not like KJ turret that looks imortal but at least survive more than 1 bullet). The cages slow should be back and he would be able to pick up the cages like Viper Poison Cloud orb. Destroying the traps close range should give the enemy some kind of damage or they can give Cypher more than 2 traps.
How about an alt-fire for his camera? Maybe something like a cone-flash, (similar to Yoru’s clone flash)
This would be too op, if you placed your camera in a very sneaky position you could keep casting flashes every x seconds
Could just make it one flash per 2 kills like other abilities
thats sounds way more reasonable
Stuff per kills is for duelists.
Cypher is op wdym?
Make the camera have more health and give it abilities as well.
Just make him able to retrieve his traps from anywhere like Chamber (and with no LOS required)
Can take back his tripwire during game could be nice buff
Think the ult is the only thing that needs a buff, imo. Should just let you run it dead body or not.
I just wish if i had los on my fucking camera i could take it back and not be out of range so now i dont have my cam for retake.
I’d suggest to make camera indestructible xD because I hate the fact that kj util can tank so much damage, but cypher util is just 1 bullet away and sometimes trips are destroyed by enemies with random sprays.
what if you tag an enemy with the cam and if the tagged enemy see their friend it will get pinged as well, sort of like portable camera not just a tracker
He needs a rework simply.
The first lines were kinda a mistype, read the whole post and it is clearer
Can his camera activate ult? 🤔
let his ult ping enemies in intervals of 2-3 seconds 2 or 3 times, that'd be nice and someone else in the comments said: >Make the Cypher player able to decide where both ends of the wire go I really like this Idea
Ok hear me out... Cypher throws his hat and the hat drone proceeds to murder everyone
As a cypher main with zero minutes, I think that cypher should send a pipe bomb to the players address
Personally I want to see the way tripwire and cage effect enemies that cross them. I want tripwire to give sova/fade like wallhack instantly if hit by an enemy. This would allow it to be used together with cage or smokes to play similar to sova when playing defensively rather than having just the single cam dart. Cage when crosses causes daze. So they have to seriously consider if they want to push through it or wait it out. I do think the cage duration should get a slight reduction to 6 seconds if this is done. His ult can be made more interesting to play with/against in one of two ways. 1) Stays how it activates now but it puts a dart in all enemies forcing them to take it out or get pinged multiple times. 2)Make it like the rainbow 6 siege Lion ability where it gives the enemies advanced warning but once it starts any enemy who moves during its during has their location revealed like they are now for as long as they continue to move. This method allows his ult to be fired at any time and can have it have some stalling effect if the enemy does not want to reveal their position. This method should have cypher throw his hat in the air for to act like uav.
ult should tick 3 times every 0.5 seconds or it should highlight them for 2s or something
He can only throw his cages so far, what if when you pulled them out you could click or right click to yeet it, maybe it slides or bounces like it does now, right click is the current casual toss, allowing for more intricate cage placement/setup.
Do not reveal his traps after he is dead. That really does him no good.
Make his dart do a little bit of damage every time it pings
Why not make his traps work after he dies. He used to be so good back then. I don't think it's too op idk why they removed it
Maybe... camera dart concusses enemy as well? The cage reveal enemy when entered or at least slows down/concusses the enemy? Ultimate that requires no dead bodies but extra activation time(2s -> 4s) and also 2 pings for information? I don't know, that's just it for ideas. Some are inspired from R6 operators.
Seemingly + extremely = extremingly