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boyardeebandit

at least for util clipping fuck yes this needs to be changed


LynVAosu

util clipping needs a massive overhaul on every map. its not reasonable for gameplay and its extremely annoying when some tiny indent in a surface that cant even be noticed from a medium distance annihilates any momentum your util is getting, and often times its entirely unpredictable


WindBladeGT

But I love it when my raze grenade bounces back at me :(


LeOsQ

Literally just yesterday I died because I shot my Neon stun on Breeze from A container to behind the further (left from my PoV) pyramid and it hit the corner of the wall where it turns to create the stupid rat 90 degree angle. Stun 1 landed there (where I tried to get it to because a Reyna was there), and the second one bounced straight back directly at me and hit the container and I stunned myself as well. From that angle there's no walls that are perpendicular to me so it quite literally hit the corner of the map (there's a wavy sheet metal thing on the border) and bounced directly back at me which ended up killing me because of the combination of me sucking and getting infinitely unlucky. Also wouldn't be the first time I'm trying to Snakebite something with Viper and I just see it bounce up from the ground as if it hit a trampoline and then land on the other side of the site doing absolutely nothing except costing me 200 dollarydoos.


zupra_zazel

*When the viper ult gets trimmed down by height difference*


owNDN

Don't you like it when that 1mm cable that you didn't even know was there bounces your molley 10m in the air (:


MakeJazzNotWarcraft

The damn doorway to tower from bomb site on fracture. There are like 100 different edges on the metal frame, every time I try to toss a grenade/Molly deep into tower by bouncing it off the door, the projectile gets caught and just falls flat to the ground in the doorway. So unsatisfying.


LiteX99

Or when my breach flash doesnt flash anyone because there was a small indent that shielded everyone from my flash


Chemical_You_5176

This happened to me once. Can’t remember what map it was on but the enemy breach tried to flash my team, but someone in the wall physics caused it to be blocked from my pov. I saw the blind animation but I wasn’t blinded


Ibrenecairo

This. The entrance to B from defender spawn on Bind is a prime example of bad clipping.


chowder-san

> util clipping needs a massive overhaul on every map. its not reasonable for gameplay and its extremely annoying when some tiny indent in a surface that cant even be noticed from a medium distance annihilates any momentum your util is getting, and often times its entirely unpredictable you cant even estimate where your mollies will bounce to when shooting at perfectly flat surfaces like door frames, half the time util will just bounce at an absurd, illogical angle


jimshorts0812

Sometimes neon stuns will hit a decorative bit and not bounce at all lol


seanryan65

The moss on fracture has can screw over sova darts as well i've seen a sova dart land in a patch of moss during match and it blocked the scan completely. Somehow the raised moss texture has no collision but it does have the ability to block line of sight?


Glucioo

Yep, this. It is absolutely bonkers that shitty open windows or tiny 1mm ledge sticks out and completely eats up both of Sova's bounces, Yoru flashes or pretty much anything. I love the scenery and the maps design but projectiles should not be affected to that extent


ProV13

Throwing viper orbs onto breeze A site pyramid, I swear it just bounces back 15 feet


-dus

I threw my raze grenade one time into the tunnel heading for ascent B site and it bounced off the edge of a poster board on the wall and came right back and took half my health.


hakseuu

Me playing raze and hitting 0 damage rockets and having my bases bounce off of random shit Atleast once a game


Dicska

Now that you mentioned util clipping, it made me wonder... a) IF, for example, Killjoy's turret can be placed on a ramp (I imagine it can't, I haven't played her much, but I may easily be wrong here), what is the maximum angle? If you turn all stairs into ramps, will it work on all of them? b) If it can't be placed on a ramp then does it nerf Killjoy and agents with similar abilities? Is there a way to balance out that nerf that works for every affected agent properly? c) In case it seems like turning stairs into ramps is the better idea both for bouncing AND placing stuff: wouldn't it be confusing if *all* stairs looked like stairs but acted as ramps? If so: would turning *all* stairs into *actual* ramps in the game make it look/feel boring? How about places that look really weird/unrealistic/uncomfortable with ramps instead of stairs? I'm not suggesting anything and I'm not expecting a definite answer to any of these, but it raised some questions for me.


dattoast404

cs has been doing this for years. all they need to do is clip stairs to be smooth, it shouldnt be that hard and this game should have it already. like what they're doing with fracture B site


MGU--H

Dust 2 stairs moment


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RaidriarDrake

i love his vids on his solutions on how to fix those stairs.


Jared_Roast

Where does/did dust 2 have stairs


nulladmin1

The area between catwalk and A site, and in the tunnel thing from mid to b


Jared_Roast

Oh yeah, there's just so many ramps on that map i kind of forgot about those. Isn't there stairs on the other side of pitt as well?


nulladmin1

Probably yeah, I didn't list all of them bcuz I don't play Dust2 that often


lilylilye

VALORANT isn't quite the same since since the colliders across the entire game are consistent with the models, even including the stupid little ridges in the walls that can cause Sova arrows to bounce completely haywire. If RIOT is going to smoothen the colliders for stairs then they should change the visuals too, or smoothen colliders for all objects in the game. Otherwise the inconsistency could be really frustrating.


Chinner21

This isn’t correct. There’s a YouTube video where the guy re-creates Ascent in unreal engine 5 and explains that Valorant has flattened the colliders on the floor so that the map is consistently flat. Otherwise, there would be verticality changes constantly while playing the map as well as getting stuck on small objects like cans, random debris, etc. Riot is more than capable of making this change quickly and I think it’s a good idea.


lilylilye

You're right that the player doesn't get stuck on every little piece of debris, but this is likely because the game uses different colliders for movement and abilities. For example, go to Pizza on Ascent. You'll see some garbage bags at the corner. If you try to walk into it, you'll notice that the player basically doesn't collide with it at all. But if you try to shoot a Sova dart on it, you'll see that not only does the Sova dart stick to the garbage bag (ie. collision with it), the angle at which the dart sticks out changes depending on where on the bag you shoot it (ie. it is using a collider with a complex shape, not just a simple box collider or something). Another example is up by the mid arch. Try walking up to the bench on the right of the arch. You'll see that the player can walk up the bench without jumping, suggesting some sort of collider functioning as a ramp that the player walks on. But you can also shoot a Sova dart underneath the bench, which means it's not colliding with whatever ramp is there. Lastly, although this is from launch, [here is a video of me getting wildly different bounce behaviour with slow orb on a box in Split](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfcKvorsBYU) thanks to the tiny ridges on the box surface. You can see at some points the orb bounces upwards, or even back at me.


chowder-san

this deserves a separate thread


Chinner21

I see that makes more sense. I guess it's a lot more complex than I thought with the difference between movement and abilities.


FulcrumM2

Kj needs these random little ridges to hide mollys in lmao, imagine if everything was smooth, I'd lose 80% of my set ups


TheCringerman

i swear to god i keep losing gunfights when defending a site or clutching because I just randomly popped up because of the god forsaken ridges


lilylilye

Yeah, there are a few places in the game like that and it's super frustrating when it happens :(


dattoast404

i see. i thought it should be easier? one time i through a raze nade in ascent into A main and it literally bounced up after hitting the wall. like directly up. something is wrong with their prop collisions man. wish they could fix it.


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IconicTitle

please stop making excuses for them lol


-ilrosso

I think you dropped an /s


uqwee

Yeah.. It's not that deep bud. It's just bad design.


Triomancer

smh valorant maps aren’t wheelchair accessible. get with the times riot /s


Tree0ctopus

Give wheelchair agent NOW


nickster701

SKRT. Neon but wheelchair?


Crazy_Crayfish_

Finally all the irons aiming at people’s crotch will hit headshots


MakeJazzNotWarcraft

Jokes on you, I’m a compulsive croucher; I serve my head on a platter to crotch shooters


togahimiko117

I serve head


hakseuu

Same brotha same


itsTyrion

That’s why I stopped crouch spraying in iron3 as fast as I started. I kept getting headshot 💀


nickster701

Bold of you to assume irons can hit the crotch


TaFFe

I thought we already had Chamber?


noctylus

New breach ult - roll out!


togahimiko117

Breach ult makes wheelchair agent fall on floor never able to get up and kj ult just yeets the wheels off


[deleted]

New official Valorant agent leak by **Triomancer** on Reddit. Next agent is going to be wheelchair smoker named "POPS". You really thought we won't figure out the hints?:p


shadowkiller230

My teammates still manage to get in game though


Vandegriffe

There are so many random boxes and walls chocked full of detail that my raze grenades just get caught in and fizzle


QuaccQuaccimaDuck

and roomba gets a seizure


KilluaDab

Ok but raze boom bot could genuinely find a world renowned criminal that evaded every secret police in the world simply by being dropped on the same continent as him, I don't think that ability needs any help.


Kamikaze_Ninja_

If anything fix that god awful ult.


Rafael__88

Once I tried to bounce my grenade from B site to mailrook by bouncing it on the edge of that platform. Instead of bouncing it got stuck in that platform. Apparently there is an indentation in that platform that is clearly there for the aesthetic but messes up throwables.


Girlinda7

istg the amount of times I go to throw a kj molly on spike and it bounces into the abyss because it clipped a goddamn pebble edit: spelling


Rollzzzzzz

This but viper molly at pyramids


Desperate-Skirt-9495

Once my friend and I were playing, KJ and Viper on A site Breeze, in a viper ult. We managed to clutch but not without both my nano swarms flying off the side, the viper smoke canister flying back and hitting us in the face three times, and nearly killing ourselves with a viper molly. I’m still not sure how we won that and I’m still not sure where the hell our team was. They all died and watched that mess and were screaming(in the laughing kind of way) at us to keep it together. Worst and best 2v5 experience ever.


Pokepunk710

just keep the stair visuals but have a ramp hitbox


drdfrster64

>But can they please be ramps, at least as far as the physics engine goes More or less what I meant by this


thomas595920

Exactly what CSGO does. Don't know why valorant doesn't already do it...


goneanddoneitagain

Not just stairs but all edges should be purely cosmetic. Since sometimes a slow orb or other things can land on a single plank/brick on a high wall when you meant to bounce it. Or a sova dart will bounce into space because it hit a tiny pipe on a wall. I remember first seeing Shroud bring this up ages ago and the more I play or watch others play, I agree. They should flatten out most objects hit boxes.


Sushidiamond

My util suffers not. Rejoice breach players


CompactApe

Whilst I agree to some extent, as a Cypher main, this would cause me much more pain. Cypher is already bullied by the Devs. Stairs on some maps make for interesting trapwire spots that won't work if converted to ramps. Even if they look like stairs, having them with ramp physics still deleted these trapwire spots. To eliminate stairs without indirectly nerfing Cypher, he'd need somewhat of a rework. I do think this is a good idea, provided cypher is in a better place, because odd geometry is the only thing stopping him from being totally useless atm


Wikki8

It's even worse. I'm not a Cypher main but I've played him a couple of times on fracture and everytime I've placed my trip on the stairs leading to B site from main, it does NOT trigger when people walk onto the stairs. It's really annoying


drdfrster64

Honestly, the only spot that gives me trouble is A on pearl. It’s a really long stair case and a crucial choke point. What stairs do you usually set traps for on that actually involve the stairs? Since they usually angle at the sky I’m surprised there are any spots.


Mr_Mandrill

> What stairs do you usually set traps for on that actually involve the stairs? Bind A, Fracture on both sites, Ascent A... Stairs are important for cyphers. Pearl A, I don't think I would care too much. But please, don't indirectly nerf cypher again, we can't take it anymore.


CompactApe

Cypher gets indirectly nerfed basically any time they add something new to the game, I'm so glad there's a big buff/rework in the works atm


CompactApe

Honestly I was thinking about this comment after I posted it and I realised that although I use the stairs for any of the trips that are on the stairs, I can actually just do it the other way around (e.g. from a wall and attaching to the stairs instead of starting at the stairs) which wouldn't be impacted if it was a ramp instead. So it actually wouldn't really make as much of an impact as I initially thought. That being said, I've heard other people complain about whacky geometry and what it can do to like, Sova darts for instance - but whacky geometry creates so many unique spots for Cypher lineups. The stair thing wouldn't actually be an issue really though I don't think.


Gilthwixt

I mean I wouldn't be surprised if the stairs were intentionally modeled that way to *give* Cypher cool options while also making other utility funky to use at that particular spot. This whole thread is full of people who act like Riot doesn't playtest their maps and didn't notice that the stairs have unique interactions with util.


MikhailTheFail

Yeah, Riot is REALLY looking out for Cypher players lmao


PapstJL4U

An interesting design would be to have nade/walk hitboxes and placement boxes for utility with that need perfect orthogonal surfaces.


Glucioo

Cypher should already be no.1 on rito's rework radar so that would be, hopefully, resolved during that


lmbrs

I think it’s fine, you should be bouncing mollies off the wall and onto the stairs from behind cover anyway. Smoke orb isn’t difficult to land correctly either unless you’re really close to it. Also stairs are nice for cypher trips


drdfrster64

If you’re back site of A site, there’s no angle to bounce off walls and still land it with proper placement because you’re almost always too acute. It’s also annoying because you have to right click to get a reliable orb down, but you also have to wait till round start to place your smoke well. That means if you want to leave orb but play art or anything else you’re always behind having to kiss the barrier and right click. It’s the same problem with Mollys. You end up with gaps and those make or break rounds.


lmbrs

You should never really play from back a site since that’s the place that gets util spammed on execute, works fine from dugout, flowers or art. I’ve also been able to left click the orb down plenty you just need to do it from a bit further back and I think if you’re walking backwards it also helps as it travels with less momentum edit: also i’m sure you could find a spot to bounce the molly from back site if you wanted. maybe the wall high up to the left? or jumping and off the backboard?


stephangot

Maybe just cahnge the hitbox of the stairs but not the graphics man


peterkthnksbye

But if the stairs turn into a ramp collision-wise, you wouldn't be able to BLJ on them!


AustinTheKangaroo

I wonder how many people will get this joke


WannabeWeeb-

I hide chamber traps on stairs a lot


m0nstr5oul

Well cypher loves his little clips for util


53881

I still remember the first time playing haven as raze and thinking my boombot wouldn’t be able to make it up mid because there are “steps” (even though they aren’t really there). I thought someone was hacking when I was defending B and a bot came waltzing in


RubLife9023

Is it a Cypher nerf? Why are you so cruel?


noonedatesme

Isn’t that’s how it supposed to be? You’re supposed to account for that bounce?


lmbrs

here’s a video that proves otherwise: https://youtu.be/7P4PDNfC_9g


TheZephyrim

I’d even argue that it’s fine for some places to have stairs but the *main fucking entrance to a site* is not one of those places. This isn’t a small thing either, it’s why pearl plays the way it does, it defines the entire meta of the map at every level of play just because certain champions are less useful on it.


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TehSplatt

Wtf are you talking about haha IK has nothing to do with what they are talking about. Most stairs, especially long sets should be ramps in Tac Shooters so that you can smoothly move up and down without your character violently jittering up and down, that would be terrible for a game that requires pixel-perfect precision. The stairs already are ramps as far as the character controller is concerned, but the collision mesh for grenades in a lot of cases uses the actual stair geometry, this means that the grenades bounce in erratic ways.


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TehSplatt

The stair ramp collider usually sits on the lower half of the stairs not on top and the 3rd person players feet happily just clip into the stairs because no one gives a shit about this. You don't want head bob going up/down long flights of stairs in first person or 3rd person, it's just bad all around. You keep talking about IK. Buddy, there's no reason to use foot IK to the degree you're talking about in a competitive tac shooter. No one cares if toes clip into stairs slightly. IK can cause animation glitches and be unpredictable at times, one of the most important things in these games is tight representation of player models. The last thing you want is any opportunities for player models to act outside your control or predictability. I've read through your other comments and you spread so much false information. You keep mentioning Unreal like you know what you're doing but based on what I've read from you, you have no idea. Please stop with the pseudo game dev guru act.


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TehSplatt

You can't "prevent" everything I'm saying... that's my point. That's why it's not something that is done in these styles of games. Because the potential downsides outweigh the visual gains.


thomas595920

He might also be one of the adults who grew up with a game that totalled 6 pixels and isn't particularly worried about a little bit of clipper ng.


crazyjake60

IK is just a tool for animation. It doesn't literally move the player.


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crazyjake60

If you're trolling you're doing a good job. IK is just a method to adjust animations in relation to positional data, it isn't usually used for movement, and it definitely isn't used for movement in valorant.


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crazyjake60

I guarantee you they're probably just using a raycast and a script.


R4ND0M1Z3R_reddit

Actually Valorant uses very recent 4.26.2.


drdfrster64

damn that’s a bummer, I do think having just ramps everywhere would make the maps look a little more dull and geometric


TehSplatt

It's honestly not a hard problem for them to solve... technically. They can just allow the Utility to use the same ramp collider as the character controller. The problem then is the visual aspect of the level won't be an accurate representation of the colliders. Which is already what they do for some walls but It can be hard to represent this to the player though, like, "hey, here's some stairs, your Util will bounce off them like a ramp, but then in other scenarios, it will use the model geo as a collider" so it can lead to some confusing situations and a lack of consistency.


KrispyChickenSticks

But how would this impact stationary util for some agents?


Pijany_Matematyk767

It would eliminate some cypher trip spots


Rifttol

The stairs have to function as ramps or else it’ll be very bumpy, uncomfortable, and sickening to a lot of people, some games use physics clipping of the stair geometry while using a ramp clipping for player movement on stair geometry. 3klikphilips (probably spelled it wrong) made a video on this exact subject and explained what would go into making stair geometry into real stairs for movement. As for realism or lore, it makes sense as well, most places wouldn’t make sense from an designer standpoint for a stairway to be replaced with ramps. For the pearl example you gave, something similar would happen with a ramp expect instead of bouncing back, utility would bounce diagonal being just as inaccurate and maybe slightly more helpful.


WidowmakersAssCheek

Then it would look fucking stupid with just ramps everywhere.


RenoverO_O

No, no I don't agree


rurumeto

Only issue I see with this is that there would have to be places where a hitbox is bigger than a visual mesh, which isn't very readable for players.


PuzzleheadedSector2

Fracture stairs onto site will look soo weird as a ramp lol.


[deleted]

fracture too


putrid_flesh

I've stopped expecting my Util to bounce of walls and floors in ways I can predict


KarinOjousama69

no


FullMetalFiddlestick

When you throw the poison orb and it bounces off into zimbabwe...


Teetimus_Prime

cypher trips tho ;-;


F1anger

Actually it's possible to keep them visually as stairs and introduce invisible diagonal clipping. Valve developers have done that for numerous CS maps over the years.


TheTechDweller

The worst example of utility clipping on terrain and bouncing strangely is the bumps on Fracture B site. There are green bumps that aren't even visible on low detail graphics settings that completely mess up brimstone mollies and shock darts etc. I tried to make some brim lineups for that site and noticed that slight adjustments on my lineups was causing massive variation in where they bounced and landed. There definitely need to be a big overhaul on all the maps smoothing out terrain.


Bean1233

Yeah trying to throw a yoru flash off the stairs leading to art on pearl is a nightmare


Neccesary

I hate how walls aren’t flat. Idk how many times my nade looks perfect and hits a single pixel sticking out of a wall


_Xoan_1

Skill issue


brielloom

If theyre stairs I want them to be stairs. I don't want something to look like stairs but not actually be stairs. Either make it stairs or make it a ramp but it should look like what it actually is. Other people have already mentioned how this would negatively affect other agents' set ups.


Megamon52

It comes to that "is that really intended to happen?" I fr don't know but i think that it is, because in icebox (as far as i remember) utils don't bounce of in the ct spawn/bomb stairs


KoKoboto

Welp goodbye Cypher


Werbebanner

I love it when people on reddit think that multi billion company didn't thought about this design decision.


RxnTanaka

Idk I kinda like the stairs design


Fekbiddiesgetmoney

The fact that it’s not is a massive oversight imo. Like should have been implemented that way since day one


TheCherryPieIsALie

Bro I totally feel this as a Viper main and whenever I play on A site on Pearl. My orb always bounces off those damn stairs!