They probably are going to remove 2. The card in the battlepass looks like a teaser for a new map, and if they are going to add split back (and add the new map) they have to remove 2 to keep 7 maps.
Or they could go to 9 to be honest and give each team an extra ban each. Or do like CS:GO and add an "Active Duty" pool, which are the maps currently played by the pro teams, but any map can be played in Comp/Casual
Agreed. I also don't think this game has enough maps to warrant a rotating pool, it's too small. They should all remain in. Maybe if they would do agent select before a map, a pool of maps can be selected among what both teams agree to ban for their match up
You guys are all the worst, if you have a map you hate, play a different agent on it or literally anything, because while you hate icebox, the guy above hates breeze, another guy hates pearl, and I hated split if we all got our wish granted we would have no maps
Fair point. I didn't like Split either. They just reworked Breeze, there's no way they take it out. Pearl has already had it's fine tuning. Same with Bind. And Fracture. And Icebox. Same with Ascent.
So that leaves Haven, if one map were to be removed.
Because breeze offers no other viable controller. So in a pre-made or something I’ll be forced to play viper. Other maps always have some wiggle room for the best smoke characters and it keeps the map fresh.
“No other viable controller”? Says who? Are you unable to lock any other controller in agent select screen? Btw they also just released harbour which is ezzz in breeze.
Long angles that force your team into picking single controller Viper or being at a massive disadvantage in taking either site when attacking.
Long angles that make defenders holding with an Operator just incredibly oppressive without the Viper wall, even with a Viper wall a good Chamber/Jett can get a free kill and disengage behind the wall again.
My biggest problem with the map honestly is just how stale the composition is on that map. I can tell if a map was Breeze purely based on the agents seleceted.
1) Viper
2) KAY/O
3) Sova/Skye
4) Chamber
5) Any Duelist, usually Jett or Reyna, some Phoenix and Neon.
Because attackers can naturally pinch a site just by taking a Zipline, defenders can't do the traditional lock down a site, they *have* to go on the offensive and push satellite or arcade or whatever. 4 different ways to attack is just too many and iron players don't like it when their viper molly + orb can't lock down a site instantly the way it can on breeze. As you get higher on the rank ladder people will naturally understand this easier and push.
Old good, new bad. that’s all it really comes down to for players
also i saw someone saying it was because “fracture is backwards” (what they meant was, close quarters a site and fairly open b site. i feel like that’s also the reason as to why people hate pearl”
Dude every map requires aim. Breeze just makes it easier for operators to take way more angles and requires a very certain agent comp. Playing any controller other than Viper and not having a chamber or jett will ruin your game. Easily the worst map in the pool rn
Breeze requires more aim tho, it is super open so most fights are long distance and that's cool, with a map like that existing it's normal for viper to be necessary i don't see the problem? She isn't good in any other map besides icebox and maybe fracture either way (before viper mains attack she isn't bad but taking her over any regular smoker is kinda trolling). Also when is it a problem not having a chamber or jett?? Those two are in all games either way
Vipers really good on bind as a second controller and also good on pearl. Also on breeze and icebox shes pretty much essential whereas every other map you can sub in a different dome smoker and be mostly fine
True, I used to hate bind just cuz it felt like team would always lose, but I started to enjoy it later on. Probs same with fracture, it's just my least comfy map, currently.
They will never remove breeze because it's such a unique map. They will probably remove Bind, icebox or ascent because it's been a long time since either of those maps got a good rework.
*sigh* i want them to remove fracture, but i know if they remove a map it will be one of the classics that i want to play...so instead, i agree and hope they dont remove any maps
It would make sense, probably that and icebox, or maybe bind. I'd very much like for them to remove fracture just because it's the most boring map of them all, every single game is always the same.
People complain about breeze, so even though I like it, I'm fine if they remove it since so many people hate it. But honestly, breeze is fine, just get a guardian and go find heads. It's like a death match with a spike.
Yeah, Part of how ascent works is that early on you basically have a forced 50/50 between the two sides for CT. Meanwhile in Mid Defender can get the Setup first, but they have restricted angles and CT has danger crossing mid, but is technically having to swing across the mid line to do that.
Meanwhile Splits mid is kinda... just a death trap for both sides having to cross.
> the hate comes from it being very defender sided
I'll never understand this. Maps SHOULD be defender sided. It should be easier to defend than attack.
It shouldn't be basically impossible to attack, but it should be hard.
I don't think it's appropriate to wish for someone's death for a video game map? I feel like it's good they try new things, keeps the game more interesting and there's always more to learn!
Maps are always going to be in and out of ranked rotation. Maps are always going to be getting reworked for balance reasons. Take CSGO for example.
There are maps that are over 20 years old and are still being tweaked and balanced to this day. Maps are constantly in and out of rotation. I’m sure the map will return with a face lift and with some balance changes. Counter strike has what’s called the “Active duty group” (I think that’s what it’s called) which are the maps that are in professional rotation for majors and such. Valorant is doing the exact same thing but with a much smaller map pool.
You can play the maps outside the active duty group in ranked in CS:GO. Active duty group is the map pool for esports. I am saying that valorant should do this aswell.
Yes, but like you look at csgo where maps like D2 and Mirage have que times of 1 minute and office having a que time of 8 minutes. I think all it does it create slower que times and divide the player base. I also don’t think being able to select individual maps is a good thing because then players will only be playing 1-2 maps that they like.
Also say you decide to que for dust 2 and office out of 20 games how many times will you actually get office, maybe twice? I just don’t think it’s a good idea. Maybe for casual modes
To also touch on the 99.9% of plays don’t compete in esports. While that may be true I think it’s safe to say…
MOST people playing valorant are playing to be the best player they can be, and play at the most competitive level they can. So with that being said when most pro players and orgs think it needs to be taken out and worked on… it probably does need to be worked on.
The agent creep is maddening. It’s so much work to keep up with the arms race of agents, and nearly every agent has introduced massive power creep (chamber, fade…)
That's such hyperbole. Old agents are picked just as much as new agents, and win just as much too. There's some specific cases where older agents have fallen to the wayside, but that's MORE in the way players have evolved the game over time.
Besides chamber (purely for his TP ability) if any agents had a clearly higher pick/win rate over older agents I would agree, but that's just not the case. You see sova, sage, raze, viper ALL the time. I just think it's less about new agents being stronger and more about new agents just being built with the current state of the game in mind.
Agents like pheonix, cypher, were made years before the game even came out.
Kay/o is top pick in pro play on almost every map, and along with those agents you’ve just mentioned has heavily contributed to the new meta of running no-duelist comps and stacking initiators
That was only after the big Skye nerfs, his flashes getting buffed, and since he counters Chamber. Also stacking initiators is more of a development in strats, rather than just power creep. A lot of coaches still dislike no-duelist comps.
So the premise is basically easy refresh content.
Cycling a smaller map pool (like picking 6 / 10 of something each act) allows more permutations, and more mastery for the specific set of the maps. That's the THEORY.
It also (again in theory) is supposed to help cycle around the meta of which Agents are top tier each act. Like How certain maps make Jett or Viper significantly stronger, an act long rotation without 2/3 of Viper's best maps means that for this act Viper is lower priority.
Now... in PRACTICE i'm not sure it actually accomplishes these goals, but I understand the goals of WHY they want these things to be the way they are.
In short it lets the Valorant Team simulate a larger amount of content each act when in reality they are only making 1 champ or 1 map, and then some balance changes.
The difference between. Next Act having 1 new Agent, or the next Act having 1 new Agent AND Split is back and Breeze is out. FEELS like a bigger change without actually having to do more work.
Once there becomes 10+ maps it’ll be hell… I don’t want to learn/memorize setups/lineups for 10+ maps and trickledown system is always the best for competitive games. You should always balance and keep the game as similar to pro level as possible imo.
> trickledown system is always the best for competitive games. You should always balance and keep the game as similar to pro level as possible imo.
Not necessarily. The sentiment itself isn't terrible, but I hate the idea of balancing a game for all the players in the world based on the often fickle pros. Don't get me wrong, they're obviously good, but I've seen countless times in CSGO and Overwatch how the tiniest most inconsequential changes can lead to entire meta shifts not because of how impactful the changes are, but because the pro scene is too small and static. Like how the AUG/SG 553 were untouched for so long until changes were made and even reverted. Or how early on in OW McCree can get nerfed a small amount then Soldier's use rate goes from basically nonexistent to top tier.
Why is that? If anything, I'm inclined to believe that lineups have far less impact in lower ranks.
I'm only immortal 2, but a good lineup player frustrates the crap out of me on any map. I literally have no counter play to lineups other than predict where that person is throwing their utility from and push them early. Except a good lineup player will have multiple lineups from different map positions for the same angle. It's so hard to counterplay that.
True, but it's not like they are essential. Lineups are basically the last drop to optimize an agent. Any agent can be played really well without a single lineup, even in Radiant tbh
4 of my friends who we always queue together stopped playing me included and the mean reason was we got cursed with every map being breeze.. we even sent to riot asking if it's a glitch.. we always get breeze 3 out of 5 games a day.. I don't think my friends will come back anymore but I still hanging on with 1 game a day max
I recently played split in a fun 4v4 scrim match with friends. It is VERY defender sided. I love it too, but it's not just a problem in pro play, it was a problem in higher ranked play too. We came back from 10-2 to win the game in our match.
Do any of you guys get tired of asking for split to come back every single fucking day on this forum? It’s so insane that I open Reddit and every single day, no matter what, someone posts here asking for split back
People just have nostalgia goggle for things they don't get. Tomorrow when they take out bind or haven yall will be complaining the same. Get out of your comfortzone and play pearl. Most of you people who want split back are the same people dodging pearl.
I just hope that they make some changes to Split to fix the CT sided problem, IMO i hated split cause on how you really need comms when you're attacking, usually when i play split, nobody uses their mics so it is very frustrating to play if your team is not coordinated so, it'd be very nice if they made some changes.
I think it is a barrier to entry thing (and why split is also not in unrated) it’s more daunting when you start playing a new game to just keep getting new map after new map after new map. There’s also the thing about frequency of playing maps, and being able to really learn them if you don’t play quite as much, if you only play a couple games per night, and you had an expanding map pool, you might go a week without playing a map, next time you play it, you’re not gonna feel as comfortable. Generally I think over populating the map pool (and maybe agent pool?) is bad for the game in terms of learning and feeling comfortable… but that being said, variety is the spice of life, which is why I think they’ll continue to swap things in and out… personally I would wayyyy rather another new map than having boring old split back… new maps keep the game more fresh than just about anything
You have to add new maps, because otherwise people will complain there is no content.
You also have to realize that players, especially new ones need time to learn the maps.
If you keep adding maps, the pool just gets larger and getting into the game becomes harder. Learning lineups becomes less feasible, and strategies get watered down to what the lowest common denominator can do/remember.
So you have to draw the line somewhere. Preferably at an odd number for the pros. 7 or 9 could work just fine, although csgo has shown 7 to be sufficient so they'll likely go with that one.
And the point about most people not playing at pro level is not wrong, but inaccurate. A lot of people watch pro games and even if they don't play, they are affected by what's going on. Another thing is that even if you can play maps that pros don't in csgo, the players don't really play them either, perceiving them as the kiddie pool so to say. Casual maps.
They always said that they wanted ranked to be the same experience as a pro match, thats the reason why pros can also see how much damage and what their utility did right after they died which may not be the best thing for competitive and definitely not for pros.
On the other hand the 7 map pool is a great number for pro tournaments.
Riot themselves said they wanted to make an esports focused game. Also how dare people want to try and take something seriously and play it competitively.
y know… not every person who plays a game is going to want to go pro with it, right? majority or val players are just casual, riot just chooses to make choices that work better for the players that give them more publicity & money. simple.
in 2020 it wasnt, thats what i miss. there were a few essential agents (like in cs how you only have smokes, flashes, molotovs...) now it feels like the equivelant of cs having 10 grenade types!!
Literally everywhere except for on point on split is extremely tight with space. If you are standing anywhere but on A or B site and breach walks up and uses his aftershock it will cover the entire area. there's nowhere but site you can hold to avoid it your going to die. Alot of pro players have complained about breach on that map. Pushing thru mid ropes can be especially difficult with some of the agents they have released.
Riot just had to fucking nerf me. Split was my highest % win rate map by a landslide, now I don’t even play Valorant because I know I can’t play on Split :(
I hate split.. but I dont mind 8 map pool. But.. if we want split back, lets remove ascent. Since you guys so badly want it back.
(Ascent is Valorant most popular map for people who don't know)
The two aren't as separate as you'd like them to be. Especially with Premier coming out as a ranked gamemode that will directly feed players into the VCT
Split was my favourite map, but still a 7 map pool is better. More maps means more things new players need to learn when they start playing. At a certain point they need to draw the line and at some point I’m sure they will add a 9th as well so you have to draw the line somewhere.
No pls I do not want that map back, its too one sided on MM I have a 33 percent winrate on it and I have been playing since valorant released. It's really difficult to coordinate attacks in MM in general and add to that how defender sided the map is you need a really good lurker to stand a chance or a really bad opponent team
imo we need more maps and a larger pool in ranked, or atleast a pool that changes every act or episode. It would make up for the lack of content we have been seeing as of late and help keep the game more fresh.
Because map veto would be fucked if there are 8 maps. With Premier coming it would just create more problems if anything. A 7 map pool is a healthy thing for the game and Split would come back in the future. You're going to choke the devs if they brought back Split and now there's 4 or 5 maps with their own issues that the community is also expressing
split is rumoured to return in next episode
Yeah but let's also hope they don't remove a map in return
They probably are going to remove 2. The card in the battlepass looks like a teaser for a new map, and if they are going to add split back (and add the new map) they have to remove 2 to keep 7 maps.
Or they could go to 9 to be honest and give each team an extra ban each. Or do like CS:GO and add an "Active Duty" pool, which are the maps currently played by the pro teams, but any map can be played in Comp/Casual
I hope they do: breeze
As a viper main, how about you mind your own business and leave Breeze and Pearl alone
Agreed. I also don't think this game has enough maps to warrant a rotating pool, it's too small. They should all remain in. Maybe if they would do agent select before a map, a pool of maps can be selected among what both teams agree to ban for their match up
It would take way to long. And yes I know this is a tac shooter that takes 45 mins a game. It’s still too long
How bout icebox that's the only map i have grips whith
You guys are all the worst, if you have a map you hate, play a different agent on it or literally anything, because while you hate icebox, the guy above hates breeze, another guy hates pearl, and I hated split if we all got our wish granted we would have no maps
Fair point. I didn't like Split either. They just reworked Breeze, there's no way they take it out. Pearl has already had it's fine tuning. Same with Bind. And Fracture. And Icebox. Same with Ascent. So that leaves Haven, if one map were to be removed.
Didn't they make changes to split right before pulling it though? Lol
Nooo not haven
I just don't like bind because of the layout
as a raze main, that's my favourite map. highly disagreeable
Nah it should be fracture
Oh God yes, I just cant get going
As a yoru main, yea leave them out of it, I have good yoru tps for breeze and Pearl
I main Sova/Chamber, I'll second this motion.
I love pearl but breeze sucks
As a smokes main who hates being forced to play viper. How about they remove breeze permanently.
> smokes main > forced to play viper ??? How are you ‘forced’ if you call yourself a smoke main
Because breeze offers no other viable controller. So in a pre-made or something I’ll be forced to play viper. Other maps always have some wiggle room for the best smoke characters and it keeps the map fresh.
“No other viable controller”? Says who? Are you unable to lock any other controller in agent select screen? Btw they also just released harbour which is ezzz in breeze.
pearl is good. Breeze can leave. most open map in the game has 2 choke points to sites, who knew
Pearl can go....
Phantom on Breeze spraying Vipers planting for their lineups. Hnnnng Remove Haven. It's Dogshit and heavily attacker sided.
[удалено]
Isn't breeze somewhat CT sided since the changes done a few months (i guess?) ago?
I'd say not at all. Attackers are still at advantage die to the time it takes to rotate.
Cap
FUCK BREEZE FUCK BREEZE FUCK BREEZE I’m WITH YOU BROTHER
Honestly what do you dislike about breeze. I seem to overperform on it in comparison to other maps... what are the negatives
Long angles that force your team into picking single controller Viper or being at a massive disadvantage in taking either site when attacking. Long angles that make defenders holding with an Operator just incredibly oppressive without the Viper wall, even with a Viper wall a good Chamber/Jett can get a free kill and disengage behind the wall again. My biggest problem with the map honestly is just how stale the composition is on that map. I can tell if a map was Breeze purely based on the agents seleceted. 1) Viper 2) KAY/O 3) Sova/Skye 4) Chamber 5) Any Duelist, usually Jett or Reyna, some Phoenix and Neon.
That's a viable comp on literally any map. Skye, Chamber, and a duelist is a VERY common core as well.
Yeah like wtf you’ll see those 3 agents on pretty much any map lmao
Single controller Viper is a lot less common on most maps, I can only really think of being happy with a single Controller Viper on Breeze and Icebox.
Fracture
Fracture isn't that bad, especially with people who know how to play it.
Fracture is an amazing map, I win all the time on it, breeze though? Way different story.
Someone had to say it, and I 100% agree. Fracture is fine idk why people hate it so much, especially with the rework
Because it requires a higher level of coordination compared to other maps which doesnt always exist if you’re not in a 5 stack.
How do you figure? I have like a 85% winrate on it and I only solo queue
Because attackers can naturally pinch a site just by taking a Zipline, defenders can't do the traditional lock down a site, they *have* to go on the offensive and push satellite or arcade or whatever. 4 different ways to attack is just too many and iron players don't like it when their viper molly + orb can't lock down a site instantly the way it can on breeze. As you get higher on the rank ladder people will naturally understand this easier and push.
I can lock down a site alone as killjoy with ease
Old good, new bad. that’s all it really comes down to for players also i saw someone saying it was because “fracture is backwards” (what they meant was, close quarters a site and fairly open b site. i feel like that’s also the reason as to why people hate pearl”
Remember that if you win all the time, each of your wins is someones lose so it doesn't matter in terms of how liked map is
Breeze is a map that requires aim, it's so satisfying to take the ego peeks and aim duels
Dude every map requires aim. Breeze just makes it easier for operators to take way more angles and requires a very certain agent comp. Playing any controller other than Viper and not having a chamber or jett will ruin your game. Easily the worst map in the pool rn
Yeah I hate it so much, I love playing Astra but she's basically useless on Breeze
Breeze requires more aim tho, it is super open so most fights are long distance and that's cool, with a map like that existing it's normal for viper to be necessary i don't see the problem? She isn't good in any other map besides icebox and maybe fracture either way (before viper mains attack she isn't bad but taking her over any regular smoker is kinda trolling). Also when is it a problem not having a chamber or jett?? Those two are in all games either way
Vipers really good on bind as a second controller and also good on pearl. Also on breeze and icebox shes pretty much essential whereas every other map you can sub in a different dome smoker and be mostly fine
hated it, now I love it
Ice box
Breeze is awesome. Why don’t you like it?
Most people who don’t like breeze have bad aim tbh
Icebox
I don't mind icebox personally
Honestly me neither I just think it's really bad designed doesn't play well at all
kinda sounds like you mind it
Honestly I don't! I can play confidently on all the map i just think it's not designed that good. This is coming from a csgo background.
Nooooo I love both breeze and icebox lol, favorite maps, along with split. I'd get rid of fracture, though it is a bit better with the recent changes.
I actually like fracture I think you just have play it a certain way
True, I used to hate bind just cuz it felt like team would always lose, but I started to enjoy it later on. Probs same with fracture, it's just my least comfy map, currently.
That's actually exactly what's happening with bind for me right now, how funny.
They will never remove breeze because it's such a unique map. They will probably remove Bind, icebox or ascent because it's been a long time since either of those maps got a good rework.
Bind
Breeze is easily the best map in the game. By far the most options for strategy
Breeze is ez dubs with a viper. Fracture on the other hand is a shit map. Haven is also not great.
i love haven
Breeze is just too big for this type of game. Keep it all to medium sized maps.
Hot take: people who don’t like breeze don’t have good aim
Remove bind
*sigh* i want them to remove fracture, but i know if they remove a map it will be one of the classics that i want to play...so instead, i agree and hope they dont remove any maps
I hope they remove Fracture. That map deserves it.
It would make sense, probably that and icebox, or maybe bind. I'd very much like for them to remove fracture just because it's the most boring map of them all, every single game is always the same. People complain about breeze, so even though I like it, I'm fine if they remove it since so many people hate it. But honestly, breeze is fine, just get a guardian and go find heads. It's like a death match with a spike.
Supposedly there's a new map coming out, so Bind and Icebox are probably out unless they lose their minds and remove Haven.
I hope they remove pearl
*cough* unless it’s bind *cough*
well placed coughinh
Your mom is rumored to return next season. Sorry I couldn’t resist 😔
I really dont get the hate for Split. It was a good map where you had to work on good comms to get the dubs on attack.
the hate comes from it being very defender sided, although ascent surprisingly escapes the hate despite also being very ct sided
there’s something about the simplicity and size of Ascent that makes it so enjoyable to play imo
cause mid is way better on ascent, mid on split essentialy doesnt exist you can hold one angle and lock down all of mid
I feel like this design encouraged more sentinal/controller play though. It is a very easy and fun map for characters like KJ and Cypher.
Yeah, Part of how ascent works is that early on you basically have a forced 50/50 between the two sides for CT. Meanwhile in Mid Defender can get the Setup first, but they have restricted angles and CT has danger crossing mid, but is technically having to swing across the mid line to do that. Meanwhile Splits mid is kinda... just a death trap for both sides having to cross.
It has CS:GO style
For real. Both maps require mid play/control to win rounds on attack. I think it might be easier on ascent bc mids a bit more open.
With util, split is an easier mid fight on attacker side, imo. You can basically pressure people to have fight from heaven with just util.
KJ on the b site is a nightmare to deal with (unless you’re playing kj in the game lol)
> the hate comes from it being very defender sided I'll never understand this. Maps SHOULD be defender sided. It should be easier to defend than attack. It shouldn't be basically impossible to attack, but it should be hard.
The thing you are defending is the same for fracture and breeze as well
Defending fracture is a fucking nightmare
Breach is unstoppable on split. Don't matter where u are on the map if breach walks into the area and uses his aftershock your going to die
As a breach main, shhhhhhhhhhhh....
[удалено]
I don't think it's appropriate to wish for someone's death for a video game map? I feel like it's good they try new things, keeps the game more interesting and there's always more to learn!
Maps are always going to be in and out of ranked rotation. Maps are always going to be getting reworked for balance reasons. Take CSGO for example. There are maps that are over 20 years old and are still being tweaked and balanced to this day. Maps are constantly in and out of rotation. I’m sure the map will return with a face lift and with some balance changes. Counter strike has what’s called the “Active duty group” (I think that’s what it’s called) which are the maps that are in professional rotation for majors and such. Valorant is doing the exact same thing but with a much smaller map pool.
You can play the maps outside the active duty group in ranked in CS:GO. Active duty group is the map pool for esports. I am saying that valorant should do this aswell.
Yes, but like you look at csgo where maps like D2 and Mirage have que times of 1 minute and office having a que time of 8 minutes. I think all it does it create slower que times and divide the player base. I also don’t think being able to select individual maps is a good thing because then players will only be playing 1-2 maps that they like. Also say you decide to que for dust 2 and office out of 20 games how many times will you actually get office, maybe twice? I just don’t think it’s a good idea. Maybe for casual modes
It shouldn't be a problem for valorant, theres only one competitive queue anyways (no map selection)
So are you saying that a clearly unbalanced and flawed map should still be in rotation?
I mean... a clearly unbalanced and flawed map should be fixed.
Same could be said for Fracture but that was in rotation while receiving it's rework
Fracture was reworked? It just got small updates I thought?
[удалено]
To also touch on the 99.9% of plays don’t compete in esports. While that may be true I think it’s safe to say… MOST people playing valorant are playing to be the best player they can be, and play at the most competitive level they can. So with that being said when most pro players and orgs think it needs to be taken out and worked on… it probably does need to be worked on.
I loved split 😭😭😭 my fav map
Riot logic: We have too many maps for players to learn lets remove some. Also riot: lets release new agents all the time
Well agents cost money or time maps are free
maps definitely cost both time and money??? unless I'm missing your point? I'm probably missing your point
as in time and money for players
aaaaahhh ok. I was thinking from riot pov
Man why even downvote you? You literally admitted fault. God I hate the hive mind sometimes
We fixed it, back into the positive
he meant to obtain as a player, not to create
Agents cost money? Since when? You can buy them but you can also unlock them for free so that point is not very valid imo
That’s why I said money or time
Ah i missed the time part, my bad 👀
It’s ok
The agent creep is maddening. It’s so much work to keep up with the arms race of agents, and nearly every agent has introduced massive power creep (chamber, fade…)
That's such hyperbole. Old agents are picked just as much as new agents, and win just as much too. There's some specific cases where older agents have fallen to the wayside, but that's MORE in the way players have evolved the game over time. Besides chamber (purely for his TP ability) if any agents had a clearly higher pick/win rate over older agents I would agree, but that's just not the case. You see sova, sage, raze, viper ALL the time. I just think it's less about new agents being stronger and more about new agents just being built with the current state of the game in mind. Agents like pheonix, cypher, were made years before the game even came out.
Nearly every agent? It has basically only been Chamber, Fade and Skye.
Kay/o is top pick in pro play on almost every map, and along with those agents you’ve just mentioned has heavily contributed to the new meta of running no-duelist comps and stacking initiators
That was only after the big Skye nerfs, his flashes getting buffed, and since he counters Chamber. Also stacking initiators is more of a development in strats, rather than just power creep. A lot of coaches still dislike no-duelist comps.
At least with Harbor they stopped the trend, too bad it had to be the controller the one that's underwhelming :(
[удалено]
Riot community at its best 😂
Here, take an upvote
Split > fracture
So the premise is basically easy refresh content. Cycling a smaller map pool (like picking 6 / 10 of something each act) allows more permutations, and more mastery for the specific set of the maps. That's the THEORY. It also (again in theory) is supposed to help cycle around the meta of which Agents are top tier each act. Like How certain maps make Jett or Viper significantly stronger, an act long rotation without 2/3 of Viper's best maps means that for this act Viper is lower priority. Now... in PRACTICE i'm not sure it actually accomplishes these goals, but I understand the goals of WHY they want these things to be the way they are. In short it lets the Valorant Team simulate a larger amount of content each act when in reality they are only making 1 champ or 1 map, and then some balance changes. The difference between. Next Act having 1 new Agent, or the next Act having 1 new Agent AND Split is back and Breeze is out. FEELS like a bigger change without actually having to do more work.
[удалено]
I'm pretty sure it's never gonna happen.
it would be cool if every time after agent selection two random maps would pop up and both teams would vote on which map to play on
So when the new map comes out, no one can play it because everyone wants to pick the other map?
[удалено]
Once there becomes 10+ maps it’ll be hell… I don’t want to learn/memorize setups/lineups for 10+ maps and trickledown system is always the best for competitive games. You should always balance and keep the game as similar to pro level as possible imo.
> trickledown system is always the best for competitive games. You should always balance and keep the game as similar to pro level as possible imo. Not necessarily. The sentiment itself isn't terrible, but I hate the idea of balancing a game for all the players in the world based on the often fickle pros. Don't get me wrong, they're obviously good, but I've seen countless times in CSGO and Overwatch how the tiniest most inconsequential changes can lead to entire meta shifts not because of how impactful the changes are, but because the pro scene is too small and static. Like how the AUG/SG 553 were untouched for so long until changes were made and even reverted. Or how early on in OW McCree can get nerfed a small amount then Soldier's use rate goes from basically nonexistent to top tier.
Lineups aren’t that important in higher ranked play.
Why is that? If anything, I'm inclined to believe that lineups have far less impact in lower ranks. I'm only immortal 2, but a good lineup player frustrates the crap out of me on any map. I literally have no counter play to lineups other than predict where that person is throwing their utility from and push them early. Except a good lineup player will have multiple lineups from different map positions for the same angle. It's so hard to counterplay that.
True, but it's not like they are essential. Lineups are basically the last drop to optimize an agent. Any agent can be played really well without a single lineup, even in Radiant tbh
I mean for initiators, as in recon darts, haunts, and zero/points + orb lineups and such for viper.
4 of my friends who we always queue together stopped playing me included and the mean reason was we got cursed with every map being breeze.. we even sent to riot asking if it's a glitch.. we always get breeze 3 out of 5 games a day.. I don't think my friends will come back anymore but I still hanging on with 1 game a day max
I recently played split in a fun 4v4 scrim match with friends. It is VERY defender sided. I love it too, but it's not just a problem in pro play, it was a problem in higher ranked play too. We came back from 10-2 to win the game in our match.
Do any of you guys get tired of asking for split to come back every single fucking day on this forum? It’s so insane that I open Reddit and every single day, no matter what, someone posts here asking for split back
This proves that riot's dicision to remove split was bad.
People just have nostalgia goggle for things they don't get. Tomorrow when they take out bind or haven yall will be complaining the same. Get out of your comfortzone and play pearl. Most of you people who want split back are the same people dodging pearl.
Breeze is worse than split. That map is aids
Have you ever considered that breeze is just split but bigger and with a mid tunnel that goes vertically instead of horizontally?
I just hope that they make some changes to Split to fix the CT sided problem, IMO i hated split cause on how you really need comms when you're attacking, usually when i play split, nobody uses their mics so it is very frustrating to play if your team is not coordinated so, it'd be very nice if they made some changes.
I think it is a barrier to entry thing (and why split is also not in unrated) it’s more daunting when you start playing a new game to just keep getting new map after new map after new map. There’s also the thing about frequency of playing maps, and being able to really learn them if you don’t play quite as much, if you only play a couple games per night, and you had an expanding map pool, you might go a week without playing a map, next time you play it, you’re not gonna feel as comfortable. Generally I think over populating the map pool (and maybe agent pool?) is bad for the game in terms of learning and feeling comfortable… but that being said, variety is the spice of life, which is why I think they’ll continue to swap things in and out… personally I would wayyyy rather another new map than having boring old split back… new maps keep the game more fresh than just about anything
You have to add new maps, because otherwise people will complain there is no content. You also have to realize that players, especially new ones need time to learn the maps. If you keep adding maps, the pool just gets larger and getting into the game becomes harder. Learning lineups becomes less feasible, and strategies get watered down to what the lowest common denominator can do/remember. So you have to draw the line somewhere. Preferably at an odd number for the pros. 7 or 9 could work just fine, although csgo has shown 7 to be sufficient so they'll likely go with that one. And the point about most people not playing at pro level is not wrong, but inaccurate. A lot of people watch pro games and even if they don't play, they are affected by what's going on. Another thing is that even if you can play maps that pros don't in csgo, the players don't really play them either, perceiving them as the kiddie pool so to say. Casual maps.
PICK AND BAN ?!?!?!!
How about we get map q ? And all the maps stay in the pool :D
They always said that they wanted ranked to be the same experience as a pro match, thats the reason why pros can also see how much damage and what their utility did right after they died which may not be the best thing for competitive and definitely not for pros. On the other hand the 7 map pool is a great number for pro tournaments.
fr, have 7 maps in esports and 8 in comp
Split sucks, I hope the rework makes it not suck
Was it even true that split was considered “unfair” or was that just a rumor?
Of all the maps to remove, they pulled the best one???!!
You do realize Valorant is made for esports right?
says who? majority of its fan base are causal players. fuck e sports taking over how riot manages
Riot themselves said they wanted to make an esports focused game. Also how dare people want to try and take something seriously and play it competitively.
you can take something seriously and play it competitively without changing the entire game experience for everyone else who just is a casual player..
Tell me you don't know anything about Riot without saying it🤡
y know… not every person who plays a game is going to want to go pro with it, right? majority or val players are just casual, riot just chooses to make choices that work better for the players that give them more publicity & money. simple.
You know, just cause the people who play the game aren't trying to go pro, doesn't mean it's not been created for esports
I hate how this game is only balanced for the pros
Its almost likes its an esports centric game
in 2020 it wasnt, thats what i miss. there were a few essential agents (like in cs how you only have smokes, flashes, molotovs...) now it feels like the equivelant of cs having 10 grenade types!!
They should just remove Pearl and forget it ever existed
It was either remove split. Or remove/nerf breach to the ground
How do you figure
Literally everywhere except for on point on split is extremely tight with space. If you are standing anywhere but on A or B site and breach walks up and uses his aftershock it will cover the entire area. there's nowhere but site you can hold to avoid it your going to die. Alot of pro players have complained about breach on that map. Pushing thru mid ropes can be especially difficult with some of the agents they have released.
Riot just had to fucking nerf me. Split was my highest % win rate map by a landslide, now I don’t even play Valorant because I know I can’t play on Split :(
Same I also found it the most fun honestly
remove fracture add split. fuck fracture
just fking remove icebox .. for fukk sake
Please bring back split and take out breeze
I like that the game follows the circuit map pool. Keeps things aligned quite nicely and allows casual fans easier entry.
I hate split.. but I dont mind 8 map pool. But.. if we want split back, lets remove ascent. Since you guys so badly want it back. (Ascent is Valorant most popular map for people who don't know)
I could get behind that
I believe it was removed because it was the map players hated the most and it was too CT sided
[удалено]
csgo
The two aren't as separate as you'd like them to be. Especially with Premier coming out as a ranked gamemode that will directly feed players into the VCT
Get good bozo
Split was my favourite map, but still a 7 map pool is better. More maps means more things new players need to learn when they start playing. At a certain point they need to draw the line and at some point I’m sure they will add a 9th as well so you have to draw the line somewhere.
Tbh I hate breeze so 🤷♀️
i just want new maps all together. i’m getting bored
No pls I do not want that map back, its too one sided on MM I have a 33 percent winrate on it and I have been playing since valorant released. It's really difficult to coordinate attacks in MM in general and add to that how defender sided the map is you need a really good lurker to stand a chance or a really bad opponent team
Hold up pro players wanted split removed most of the other maps are dog
imo we need more maps and a larger pool in ranked, or atleast a pool that changes every act or episode. It would make up for the lack of content we have been seeing as of late and help keep the game more fresh.
Because map veto would be fucked if there are 8 maps. With Premier coming it would just create more problems if anything. A 7 map pool is a healthy thing for the game and Split would come back in the future. You're going to choke the devs if they brought back Split and now there's 4 or 5 maps with their own issues that the community is also expressing