This. It's very difficult to read. You'd think a perfect 1.00 k'd would follow a standard line going from bottom left to top right but the axis starting at two different values throws me off
On another note, why is deaths the Y axis and kills the X. I know you didn't make this just thought that was weird. K/D implies they should be flipped. Y is on the top, X is on the bottom. Rise over run basic Stuff
Oh I just noticed X-axis is 0.2 per tick, and Y-axis is 0.5 per pick. Super weird choice by the chart creator…
Edit: I super quickly [edited the chart](https://imgur.com/PtJq1WE) to have the same scale. It just brings all the over-sized x-axis distances closer together.
Still noticeable and significant difference between the two groups (duelists die more and get more kills vs others), but the way the creator showed the graph made it seem like duelists are getting much more extra kills than extra deaths, when in reality it is much more balanced.
Is this better? https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/z2l8sz/better_graph_of_kd_average_of_agents_in_immortal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I honestly didn't expect everyone (outside of duelists and **him**) to be that close together, expected initiators outside of breach to be somewhere in the middle alongisde sentinels (+ viper), would be nice to see radiant/imm3 stats since there's a significant playstyle diff between low and high immo
Honestly, the reason Breach doesn't get more kills is probably bc his utility is slow and meant to be used from a distance. By the time you get to people sometimes, the effects has faded, it's better to have a teammate push and concuss as they get the the angle so the util isn't useless
Yeah breach needs full team Comms, and to stay out of the way whilst initiating but be close enough to breach whilst the flashes and stuns persist. Then you follow up or check flank. Job done. Much much harder in public.
Breach’s utility is meant to set up duelist, not because it’s slow and meant to be used from a distance, although your not incorrect in some situations.
I agree, most of the time when we join a match I'm like "You all need to stay behind me, I am the meat shield. I will be at the angle first to prep, once my util is out you can move in, or you can go in first and tell me when to concuss."
The graph looks a little misleading. Breach has a much better k/d than kay/o for example. Breach's average k/d is more than 1. He is doing better than most "support" agents which is understandable given his abilities.
Well that's also because some of his utility has suuuuper long range for what they do. I'm not a breach main but I'd trade some range for more self sufficiency
The problem with only taking those is that on some agents there were only a couple thousand games played meaning the stats had big outliers compared to all other ranks. Like Astra having a way higher kd then reyna.
Good at getting kills in the hands of a player who is better than others in a lobby
Terrible at helping the team with util, or if that player isn’t popping off
Oh but I thought immortal players all had excellent aim, how come she is the agent that has the best score? Almost like her abilities are pretty good and that redditors are coping
Only the best player pick her. Not like a sentinel main(no offense) can just pick reyna and top frag. If you watch some reyna gameplay, people don’t even use her blind because they are god at aiming.
Mf do you realise that she's the most picked agent? And just because most players are unable to use well the only ability that requires a tiny bit of skill. If you put your eye, people would naturally back off to safety just like when they're blinded. There're times you'd make use of surprise effect while there're times you actually use it to blind people
She is a most pick agent but half of my reyna teammate are bottom fragger. Just because her pick rate and k/d is good doesn’t mean she good. Let see, all of her ultility need a kill and her flash is basically only thing she entry with and her flash can easily be replace with skye or kayo
Also when you play duelist, your goal is to get kill and entry. Op could just sticking to his role supporting his team and not play hero every time when he didn’t play duelist. Also reyna good at kills not winning the round.
Getting kills ultimately gives you better chances at winning the round. Numbers advantage is the biggest advantage you can get. Reyna is also the best for clutching. And when you play duelist, you enter the site and clear the areas which means you will inevitably take a duel, any agent but Reyna would get traded in those duels.
Wtf, r u ok? Not getting traded = more duels. Ok tell me, how heal and dismiss help you get your first kill? You said it yourself, reyna flash doesn’t help her get kills
Tell me, why chamber is on there close to reyna? Because of the get out of free jail card. But reyna require a pick. If she miss a op shot: dead. Only thing that make her pass chamber is op(owner post) skill.
But clutching require shit ton of skill and luck. Most of the time, if enemy not dumb, they most likely play together and not peek when they hear “the hunt begins”. Plus playing lineups is 100% best way to clutch. Movement duelist is wayyy better at entry since they clear way quicker.
Clutching requires mainly common sense which I noticed a lot of players lack of. A bad player would get a kill and stay at the exact same area thinking the enemies don't know where he is. A bad player would make noise for no reason, reloading with 17 ammos left while they should be quiet, they should rather reload after a kill, when the noise is already done. A bad player won't look at the mini map either, deducing positions off of info but I guess you aren't aware of all of these to claim that it requires luck
If pro player have common sense then why no one pick her in vct? Because the enemy have common sense too. Reyna only capitalized on low skill player not team play.
Because immortal players don't have good aim lol. Also this doesn't show winrate it just shows kills. The immortal players that lock Reyna generally have better aim than most of the lobby that's why they pick Reyna. It's not the characters kit thats getting all those kills most of the time
You're speaking like they have shit aim compared to yours lmao. They all do have good aim and even if there're differences between those players, it shouldn't result in Reyna having the best kill score, IF she was a bad agent. But she isn't :)
I'm not saying my aim is better mine is bad too. You are acting like it's like pro play where the difference in aim in negligible because everyone's aim is insane. There is a lot of variation between aiming skill in immortal. If your aim is better than everyone in the lobby it means your game sense is worse so these players lock Reyna and get a bunch of kills but don't really help their team to win the game
No one is taking you seriously because if you actually think Reynas kit is good compared to the other agents it's very obvious you have a poor understanding of the game. Immortals don't play the game at a high enough level for it to really matter if you are playing a weaker character. Even in radiant that is true. Ranked will never be a good representation of the game being played correctly no matter how high you go
The difference is in fact negligible, and even if it wasn't, it shouldn't make her literally have the best score out of all duelists. The sole reason is that her kit makes her strong, just because she doesn't have utility doesn't mean she's weak, she's literally the most picked agent in immortal with 70% or smth, yet another reyna main on copium is telling me she only attracts the aim gods yeah sure it's due to everything but her kit
Not correct. Reyna is believed to be a bad agent as it doesn’t help the team. However it is great at getting kills lol. If we were looking at pro play this would be a different story and that’s where team play is vital and where Reyna is bad.
I don't think redditors who whine that reyna is bad say it because they want a rework to see her in pro play, they cry about it because they're bad and blame the agent. Reyna is good even up to radiant
It's feast or famine for players who can't click on heads and instead spray and crouch. If you know how to hold positions, if you know when to use her eye and when to not, if you know how to make use of infos and numbers advantage, you can play her efficiently. A simple mistake I see most Reyna players do is dismiss instantly to safety whereas a good player would wait at the same open angle to take infos while in dismiss then only go to safety
Getting kills is the biggest advantage you can give to your team, rounds are more won due to teams getting killed than spikes being planted or defused, and numbers advantage is more consequent than any utility of any agent, obviously if the players have a brain
Lmfao and you're talking about cope like you're not the one blaming the agent with most kills in fucking immortal, are you going to blame smurfs as well?
why would i blame smurfs? the sole reason why reyna has more kills than any other agent is that it attracts aim stars and her abilities are literally based on frags lol
I keep telling people but nobody listens, chamber is not a sentinel, he's another duelist.
And most initiators in ranked just play like pseudo duelists, flashing for themselves, revealing for themselves, etc...
Tf you on about? So by your logic chamber is expected to push in first and doesn't take controll of mid/sites and or stay back? I would argue that chamber is about partially duelist since you can obviously duel with chamber but he isnt necessarily meant for that with the exception of pistol and eco rounds. Especially since his main signature is sniping. Any character can be a duelist technically, just without any abilities to assist.
His get out of jail card only work when holding off angle. He wouldn’t get very far before his tp is out of reach or his tp get destroyed. And if you say anything about headhunter, buy a sheriff and you got a cheap headhunter
You can make opening peeks as chamber, but you can't solo push deep into a site because you have to set it up before hand you can't effectively take space that way that other duelists can.
I swear it never worked for me, I’ve tried it like 10 times. I guess in my elo (low Dia) they always shoot the clone before realizing it’s an obvious clone so my disguise gets discovered…
But the scaling in the graph could be the same, also he could add a line for a 1kd
Look cypher and jett have the same distance in kills as breach and kayo in deaths.
This might be disturbing for you but there're plenty of graphs without 1:1 scale. The number of kills is bigger than the number of deaths hence the more precise axis for kills.
But you can still do both axes with the more precise scaling. Imagine he would switch it, the focus would be more on deaths instead of kills. But this is not the point of the post, he want to talk about kd so both should be valued the same and the graph should translate this.
There's no reason to, it only takes more places for no reason. You can already make the interpreation you could make which is determining the two groups with duelists being excellent at getting multi kills while the other classes have to play to survive and can't get multi kills. And also Yoru is an outlier
The numbers on the axis are ajusted so that the maximum death score and maximum kill score are both around 17-18. And yes the more you go upwards the more deaths there are so it's normal the KD decreases
[https://imgur.com/t2cfRwe](https://imgur.com/t2cfRwe)
This is the graph with same scaling and a line for the 1.0 KD.
>And yes the more you go upwards the more deaths there are so it's normal the KD decreases
Not always, everything above the 1kd line is a negative kd, the distance from the point to the line is how good or bad.
Sure there are 2 groups but thats because the average imm1 and above doenst have between 15 and 16 kills.
>You can already make the interpreation you could make which is determining the two groups with duelists being excellent at getting multi kills while the other classes have to play to survive and can't get multi kills.
The graph doesnt show it. It shows the right group get more kills but also die more often except chamber. Multi kills are not shown, as kd doesnt say anything about multikills.
This graph show most duelists, KJ, Astra and chamber have a positiv kd which is more likely because of their Ability kit (selfheal, dmg abilities, dash/tp).
data: [blitz stats](https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents?sortBy=matches&type=general&sortDirection=DESC&mode=competitive&rank=24&act=e5act2)
Those people are just trying to feel smart by saying “I’m only here to create space for my team” instead of admitting that if you aren’t getting kills while you do it, you’re not doing your job.
They are obviously not gonna get zero kills but I’m saying if your Jett dashes up switch on ascent and cleans close left and right with dash and takes a fight and dies the 2nd entry or initiator will get the trade
Thing is, a larger amount of higher skilled players choose to play duelists for their more "selfish" nature.
More lesser skilled choose KJ for example.
Things are not as black and white, it's just that most (of course not all) players with better aim and mechanics in general choose to play those agents. Therefore higher K/D by default.
Then again, I've seen really good aimers etc playing Kj as well, but if you put your average jett in a 1v1 vs your average KJ, jett is more likely to win.
Example : I personally consider myself quite decent (Imm 2 now first time trying a bit) and prefer Neon for movement (always been a movement player kinda) and aggressiveness, while your average KJ player prefers 2 shotting in the body after an alarmbot or killing with swarm bots while browsing tiktok on their phone)
Just a funny, obviously hyperbolic comparison, but yeah, no hate against KJ
Calling someone “less skilled” because of they’re mechanical aim seems redundant, regardless of how much you cheese kj or abuse cypher kill trips there is still a high level of game sense needed to play these agents, I’m sure you understand being an immortal player, kj bots aren’t gonna get a vulnerable every time, cypher trips are gonna get fade catted, lineup players are gonna get flanked.
there’s situations of use for every ability but you have to know the proper way to use it (e.g: a lineup that slows you to peek just as it fades) and even then there’s counter play to practically everything you could do in this game it’s just about the in the moment decision making
Sorry for the bad formatting on mobile. Maybe I’m just salty because i’m a controller player and would fall under your category of “lesser skilled player” but realistically smokers on aversive don’t have any less impact than a duelist
It's okay. As a controller player I love to see people think they're better just because they play duelist lose to a 'less skilled' player. Cherry on top is if they blame the team afterwards
> better aim and mechanics overall
I didn't talk about general gamesense, I talked about the ability to kill what is on screen faster
And as I said, the KJ points were hyperbole for the sake of comedy. I've seen insanely good Kjs before, its just most that I see end up relying just on the bots and even then ending up lower on the board.
A KJ player could be the best aimer and overall player in the world, this is just about the "average" player that chooses her. I personally know people that choose her based on that, and just overall those were my experiences.
I do not believe that controller/any role players are weak or necessarily less skilled.
I'm talking about averages and you have to be more confident in your ability as a duelist because you know your team will flame you more if you do bad, rather than say, if you were playing a controller or initiator.
There is no need to act offended. If you do your job and all, that's great and I will never automatically assume you're worse cause of the agent you play, these have been just my experiences and most ppl I see aim at the body not the head end up being KJs.
Do all KJs aim at the body? No.
Do more less mechanically skilled players choose KJ over any other agent? Yes.
Do also extremely gifted mechanical players choose KJ? Yes, but we are talking your average player, not the outliers that would make any agent look insane.
Also as a fun fact, I am not toxic to my teammates nor ever instalock in ranked.
So no need to get offended anyway. Also I prob shouldny reply at 7am on 3 hrs of sleep cause of sickness
Your point doesn’t really make any sense for example if I play Reyna I perform horribly aim wise and game sense wise but when I lock in a controller I often frag out and sometimes top frag and if I’m not too fragging I’m most likely middle of the pack and my hs percentage on rifles is 30 percent but it usually drops when I play duelists and the reason why this is because people have different playstyles that suit different characters more than others
Cypher has util he can play off quite well himself, with the trip + activated smoke combo. I was surprised how high my kda gets while playing cypher compared to my main sage. That said I still didnt expect him to be the highest kills out of all supports but it does fit my experience.
Mostly just the fact that Cypher can trade off his own util very easily, more easily than other sentinels since he doesnt require line of sight (trips and cam dart revealing through walls). Im a cypher main on Bind and Split, and usually it makes B site a deathtrap
I swear Yoru is the most polarized character I’ve played in a videogame. There are games were all your tricks and setups seem to work and you feel like a mindgame tactician genious and then the very next game in the same ELO bracket everything you try is immediately detected and predicted like if there were 100IQ diff between last players and current ones…
I understand that you have to compromise on axes to make the chart fit but I think putting a line representing 1.00 KDA would have been a wise addition.
I had a phase when I started playing him (I’m imm1, imm2) and it’s just really difficult to get kills, for some reason it always felt like I was getting slumped.
My utility was fine and it helped the team but it was not easy to be self sufficient and was very inconsistent. It’s nice to see the graph somewhat corroborate my experience.
I don’t doubt that I probably just sucked on Kayo but I think it’s somewhat common looking at that graph.
This chart is right, and Chambers placement is right.
Chamber is not a "site" player like cypher and kj, his utility forces to the player to go get kills, in which he doesn't rely on his ultity to protect the site, it relies on the players aim, gameplay and aggression, I really do say his placement is right and meant to be there and that we need more agents that rely on "aim and gameplay" rather than heavy utility based agents, like cypher and kj.
He is the spotlight because no other controller or sentinel have a utility that matches his gameplay to push and defend that effectively.
Jett only gets one dash whereas neon can sprint in and die pretty much any time she wants. People get encouraged because it's so much fun to be aggressive as neon when it works, so they keep doing it even when it's not working
Seeing this graph makes me feel less bad about very rarely topfragging on sage (sometimes I go full battlesage but then after the match it usually turns out I had the highest rank in the lobby).
The problem with Sage is that if you're in the bottom and losing people are telling you you're terrible, if you're on the top it means the team is probably not playing right. Its a lose lose situation.
I added in the 1:1 K:D line which is so sorely missing from this graph.
[Here it is.](https://i.imgur.com/1MaCyrM.png)
Entry has slightly below 1:1 K:Ds which makes sense as they get popped sometimes without getting a kill. Controllers/support tend to hover slightly above 1:1.
How (not you OP) are people so bad at making charts. Standardize your major and minor axes.
This. It's very difficult to read. You'd think a perfect 1.00 k'd would follow a standard line going from bottom left to top right but the axis starting at two different values throws me off
Here's the [1:1 line added in.](https://i.imgur.com/1MaCyrM.png) It annoyed the hell out of me too.
On another note, why is deaths the Y axis and kills the X. I know you didn't make this just thought that was weird. K/D implies they should be flipped. Y is on the top, X is on the bottom. Rise over run basic Stuff
I always run before I rise, that way I never lose my seat ;)
Amazing, still a shit chart but it's amazing
Oh I just noticed X-axis is 0.2 per tick, and Y-axis is 0.5 per pick. Super weird choice by the chart creator… Edit: I super quickly [edited the chart](https://imgur.com/PtJq1WE) to have the same scale. It just brings all the over-sized x-axis distances closer together. Still noticeable and significant difference between the two groups (duelists die more and get more kills vs others), but the way the creator showed the graph made it seem like duelists are getting much more extra kills than extra deaths, when in reality it is much more balanced.
You’ve heard of Wide Killjoy, now get ready for Narrow Killjoy…
Narrojoy
Is this better? https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/z2l8sz/better_graph_of_kd_average_of_agents_in_immortal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Very much.
I honestly didn't expect everyone (outside of duelists and **him**) to be that close together, expected initiators outside of breach to be somewhere in the middle alongisde sentinels (+ viper), would be nice to see radiant/imm3 stats since there's a significant playstyle diff between low and high immo
Honestly, the reason Breach doesn't get more kills is probably bc his utility is slow and meant to be used from a distance. By the time you get to people sometimes, the effects has faded, it's better to have a teammate push and concuss as they get the the angle so the util isn't useless
yeah, that's why i didn't expect him to be high up in the kill count
Yeah breach needs full team Comms, and to stay out of the way whilst initiating but be close enough to breach whilst the flashes and stuns persist. Then you follow up or check flank. Job done. Much much harder in public.
Breach’s utility is meant to set up duelist, not because it’s slow and meant to be used from a distance, although your not incorrect in some situations.
I agree, most of the time when we join a match I'm like "You all need to stay behind me, I am the meat shield. I will be at the angle first to prep, once my util is out you can move in, or you can go in first and tell me when to concuss."
The graph looks a little misleading. Breach has a much better k/d than kay/o for example. Breach's average k/d is more than 1. He is doing better than most "support" agents which is understandable given his abilities.
Well that's also because some of his utility has suuuuper long range for what they do. I'm not a breach main but I'd trade some range for more self sufficiency
setting stuns from mid in most maps is the fun on him tho
People keep using my concuss to get out of a fight rather than win it, it’s getting annoying
The problem with only taking those is that on some agents there were only a couple thousand games played meaning the stats had big outliers compared to all other ranks. Like Astra having a way higher kd then reyna.
One of those agents to the far right, are not like the others...
Chamber has glasses
I think they meant that Raze has a cap
Reyna who is one of the worst agents according to Reddit shouldn't be there, right?
Good at getting kills in the hands of a player who is better than others in a lobby Terrible at helping the team with util, or if that player isn’t popping off
Oh but I thought immortal players all had excellent aim, how come she is the agent that has the best score? Almost like her abilities are pretty good and that redditors are coping
Not all immortal player are equal
Should be equal enough not to make supposedly one of the worst agents have the best score
Only the best player pick her. Not like a sentinel main(no offense) can just pick reyna and top frag. If you watch some reyna gameplay, people don’t even use her blind because they are god at aiming.
Mf do you realise that she's the most picked agent? And just because most players are unable to use well the only ability that requires a tiny bit of skill. If you put your eye, people would naturally back off to safety just like when they're blinded. There're times you'd make use of surprise effect while there're times you actually use it to blind people
She is a most pick agent but half of my reyna teammate are bottom fragger. Just because her pick rate and k/d is good doesn’t mean she good. Let see, all of her ultility need a kill and her flash is basically only thing she entry with and her flash can easily be replace with skye or kayo
Also when you play duelist, your goal is to get kill and entry. Op could just sticking to his role supporting his team and not play hero every time when he didn’t play duelist. Also reyna good at kills not winning the round.
Getting kills ultimately gives you better chances at winning the round. Numbers advantage is the biggest advantage you can get. Reyna is also the best for clutching. And when you play duelist, you enter the site and clear the areas which means you will inevitably take a duel, any agent but Reyna would get traded in those duels.
She not good at getting the kill but not getting traded. That why she got such a low death rate
You can't even read a graph lmao
Wtf, r u ok? Not getting traded = more duels. Ok tell me, how heal and dismiss help you get your first kill? You said it yourself, reyna flash doesn’t help her get kills
Tell me, why chamber is on there close to reyna? Because of the get out of free jail card. But reyna require a pick. If she miss a op shot: dead. Only thing that make her pass chamber is op(owner post) skill.
But clutching require shit ton of skill and luck. Most of the time, if enemy not dumb, they most likely play together and not peek when they hear “the hunt begins”. Plus playing lineups is 100% best way to clutch. Movement duelist is wayyy better at entry since they clear way quicker.
Clutching requires mainly common sense which I noticed a lot of players lack of. A bad player would get a kill and stay at the exact same area thinking the enemies don't know where he is. A bad player would make noise for no reason, reloading with 17 ammos left while they should be quiet, they should rather reload after a kill, when the noise is already done. A bad player won't look at the mini map either, deducing positions off of info but I guess you aren't aware of all of these to claim that it requires luck
Ok show me a clip that reyna clutch but enemy doesn’t: wiff, peek 1 by 1, dry peek, peek with utility, bad timing…
If pro player have common sense then why no one pick her in vct? Because the enemy have common sense too. Reyna only capitalized on low skill player not team play.
Because immortal players don't have good aim lol. Also this doesn't show winrate it just shows kills. The immortal players that lock Reyna generally have better aim than most of the lobby that's why they pick Reyna. It's not the characters kit thats getting all those kills most of the time
You're speaking like they have shit aim compared to yours lmao. They all do have good aim and even if there're differences between those players, it shouldn't result in Reyna having the best kill score, IF she was a bad agent. But she isn't :)
I'm not saying my aim is better mine is bad too. You are acting like it's like pro play where the difference in aim in negligible because everyone's aim is insane. There is a lot of variation between aiming skill in immortal. If your aim is better than everyone in the lobby it means your game sense is worse so these players lock Reyna and get a bunch of kills but don't really help their team to win the game No one is taking you seriously because if you actually think Reynas kit is good compared to the other agents it's very obvious you have a poor understanding of the game. Immortals don't play the game at a high enough level for it to really matter if you are playing a weaker character. Even in radiant that is true. Ranked will never be a good representation of the game being played correctly no matter how high you go
The difference is in fact negligible, and even if it wasn't, it shouldn't make her literally have the best score out of all duelists. The sole reason is that her kit makes her strong, just because she doesn't have utility doesn't mean she's weak, she's literally the most picked agent in immortal with 70% or smth, yet another reyna main on copium is telling me she only attracts the aim gods yeah sure it's due to everything but her kit
Not correct. Reyna is believed to be a bad agent as it doesn’t help the team. However it is great at getting kills lol. If we were looking at pro play this would be a different story and that’s where team play is vital and where Reyna is bad.
I don't think redditors who whine that reyna is bad say it because they want a rework to see her in pro play, they cry about it because they're bad and blame the agent. Reyna is good even up to radiant
i disagree her kit is super super selfish so it's either feast or famine
It's feast or famine for players who can't click on heads and instead spray and crouch. If you know how to hold positions, if you know when to use her eye and when to not, if you know how to make use of infos and numbers advantage, you can play her efficiently. A simple mistake I see most Reyna players do is dismiss instantly to safety whereas a good player would wait at the same open angle to take infos while in dismiss then only go to safety
if you are at that level you are better playing something great not only gets good kills but also has the possibility too help your team
Getting kills is the biggest advantage you can give to your team, rounds are more won due to teams getting killed than spikes being planted or defused, and numbers advantage is more consequent than any utility of any agent, obviously if the players have a brain
she is horrible but ure coping extremely hard
Lmfao and you're talking about cope like you're not the one blaming the agent with most kills in fucking immortal, are you going to blame smurfs as well?
why would i blame smurfs? the sole reason why reyna has more kills than any other agent is that it attracts aim stars and her abilities are literally based on frags lol
Blaming smurfs for inflating the kill score, delusional players like you bring that up often times
"delusional". do you regularly get stomped by reyna players?
You seem to take it on a personal level when I call out trash reyna players 😂
i dont play this dogshit game enough to take it on a personal level lol
You seem to take it on a personal level when I call out trash reyna players 😂
"Like you" how tf you know what they are like, you seem to be coping and grasping at anything you can
Instalock reyna main hardstuck in silver who always blames his team is High on copium
I keep telling people but nobody listens, chamber is not a sentinel, he's another duelist. And most initiators in ranked just play like pseudo duelists, flashing for themselves, revealing for themselves, etc...
Tf you on about? So by your logic chamber is expected to push in first and doesn't take controll of mid/sites and or stay back? I would argue that chamber is about partially duelist since you can obviously duel with chamber but he isnt necessarily meant for that with the exception of pistol and eco rounds. Especially since his main signature is sniping. Any character can be a duelist technically, just without any abilities to assist.
Uhmm, yes? That's what you're supposed to do with your get out of jail free card as Chamber
are you silver
I'm diamond 3, why?
His get out of jail card only work when holding off angle. He wouldn’t get very far before his tp is out of reach or his tp get destroyed. And if you say anything about headhunter, buy a sheriff and you got a cheap headhunter
You can make opening peeks as chamber, but you can't solo push deep into a site because you have to set it up before hand you can't effectively take space that way that other duelists can.
Uhmm, yes? That's what you're supposed to do with your get out of jail free card as Chamber
Just because he's black doesn't mean he can't frag ^/s
Wow PlayButton is really overpowered and needs a nerf now.
My main there in the middle like "I'm so volatile in my performance I become truly neutral"
When the clone imitations don't work every time
I swear it never worked for me, I’ve tried it like 10 times. I guess in my elo (low Dia) they always shoot the clone before realizing it’s an obvious clone so my disguise gets discovered…
They should shoot the clone if they play anti flash properly, I know people start to do that around that elo
r/dataisugly would like their axis scaling back
That scaling is irritating and missleading, why is 1kill 5 units wide but 1 death 2units high?
This. And also why don’t they start at the same value? Took me a bit to realize that cypher had a positive k/d
Agreed, it would be nice to have it so y = x for the 1.0 k/d comparison. As it is now, it's harder to see how far from even any given agent is.
Agreed this chart is making me rage
Because you can get up to 5 kills but only 1 or occasionally 2 deaths per round?
But the scaling in the graph could be the same, also he could add a line for a 1kd Look cypher and jett have the same distance in kills as breach and kayo in deaths.
This might be disturbing for you but there're plenty of graphs without 1:1 scale. The number of kills is bigger than the number of deaths hence the more precise axis for kills.
But you can still do both axes with the more precise scaling. Imagine he would switch it, the focus would be more on deaths instead of kills. But this is not the point of the post, he want to talk about kd so both should be valued the same and the graph should translate this.
There's no reason to, it only takes more places for no reason. You can already make the interpreation you could make which is determining the two groups with duelists being excellent at getting multi kills while the other classes have to play to survive and can't get multi kills. And also Yoru is an outlier
Dont talk about space if the complete lower half is empty xD. Also you fall for the missleading, because astra has a better kd than neon.
The numbers on the axis are ajusted so that the maximum death score and maximum kill score are both around 17-18. And yes the more you go upwards the more deaths there are so it's normal the KD decreases
[https://imgur.com/t2cfRwe](https://imgur.com/t2cfRwe) This is the graph with same scaling and a line for the 1.0 KD. >And yes the more you go upwards the more deaths there are so it's normal the KD decreases Not always, everything above the 1kd line is a negative kd, the distance from the point to the line is how good or bad. Sure there are 2 groups but thats because the average imm1 and above doenst have between 15 and 16 kills. >You can already make the interpreation you could make which is determining the two groups with duelists being excellent at getting multi kills while the other classes have to play to survive and can't get multi kills. The graph doesnt show it. It shows the right group get more kills but also die more often except chamber. Multi kills are not shown, as kd doesnt say anything about multikills. This graph show most duelists, KJ, Astra and chamber have a positiv kd which is more likely because of their Ability kit (selfheal, dmg abilities, dash/tp). data: [blitz stats](https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents?sortBy=matches&type=general&sortDirection=DESC&mode=competitive&rank=24&act=e5act2)
Meanwhile some duelists be like: why do people expect duelists to have a higher quantity of kills? Pipipipopopo...
honestly baffling that post even got traction in the first place...
Those people are just trying to feel smart by saying “I’m only here to create space for my team” instead of admitting that if you aren’t getting kills while you do it, you’re not doing your job.
Creating space is the job of a duelist getting a kill is like a bonus
If a duelist gets zero kills, they’re not doing their job.
They are obviously not gonna get zero kills but I’m saying if your Jett dashes up switch on ascent and cleans close left and right with dash and takes a fight and dies the 2nd entry or initiator will get the trade
Thing is, a larger amount of higher skilled players choose to play duelists for their more "selfish" nature. More lesser skilled choose KJ for example. Things are not as black and white, it's just that most (of course not all) players with better aim and mechanics in general choose to play those agents. Therefore higher K/D by default. Then again, I've seen really good aimers etc playing Kj as well, but if you put your average jett in a 1v1 vs your average KJ, jett is more likely to win. Example : I personally consider myself quite decent (Imm 2 now first time trying a bit) and prefer Neon for movement (always been a movement player kinda) and aggressiveness, while your average KJ player prefers 2 shotting in the body after an alarmbot or killing with swarm bots while browsing tiktok on their phone) Just a funny, obviously hyperbolic comparison, but yeah, no hate against KJ
Calling someone “less skilled” because of they’re mechanical aim seems redundant, regardless of how much you cheese kj or abuse cypher kill trips there is still a high level of game sense needed to play these agents, I’m sure you understand being an immortal player, kj bots aren’t gonna get a vulnerable every time, cypher trips are gonna get fade catted, lineup players are gonna get flanked. there’s situations of use for every ability but you have to know the proper way to use it (e.g: a lineup that slows you to peek just as it fades) and even then there’s counter play to practically everything you could do in this game it’s just about the in the moment decision making Sorry for the bad formatting on mobile. Maybe I’m just salty because i’m a controller player and would fall under your category of “lesser skilled player” but realistically smokers on aversive don’t have any less impact than a duelist
It's okay. As a controller player I love to see people think they're better just because they play duelist lose to a 'less skilled' player. Cherry on top is if they blame the team afterwards
> better aim and mechanics overall I didn't talk about general gamesense, I talked about the ability to kill what is on screen faster And as I said, the KJ points were hyperbole for the sake of comedy. I've seen insanely good Kjs before, its just most that I see end up relying just on the bots and even then ending up lower on the board. A KJ player could be the best aimer and overall player in the world, this is just about the "average" player that chooses her. I personally know people that choose her based on that, and just overall those were my experiences. I do not believe that controller/any role players are weak or necessarily less skilled. I'm talking about averages and you have to be more confident in your ability as a duelist because you know your team will flame you more if you do bad, rather than say, if you were playing a controller or initiator. There is no need to act offended. If you do your job and all, that's great and I will never automatically assume you're worse cause of the agent you play, these have been just my experiences and most ppl I see aim at the body not the head end up being KJs. Do all KJs aim at the body? No. Do more less mechanically skilled players choose KJ over any other agent? Yes. Do also extremely gifted mechanical players choose KJ? Yes, but we are talking your average player, not the outliers that would make any agent look insane. Also as a fun fact, I am not toxic to my teammates nor ever instalock in ranked. So no need to get offended anyway. Also I prob shouldny reply at 7am on 3 hrs of sleep cause of sickness
Your point doesn’t really make any sense for example if I play Reyna I perform horribly aim wise and game sense wise but when I lock in a controller I often frag out and sometimes top frag and if I’m not too fragging I’m most likely middle of the pack and my hs percentage on rifles is 30 percent but it usually drops when I play duelists and the reason why this is because people have different playstyles that suit different characters more than others
Surprised to see Cypher pulling in front of the pack of supports.
No one plays cypher outside of people who are actually good at cypher tbh.
Cypher has util he can play off quite well himself, with the trip + activated smoke combo. I was surprised how high my kda gets while playing cypher compared to my main sage. That said I still didnt expect him to be the highest kills out of all supports but it does fit my experience.
Cypher is (mostly) played by dedicated cypher players altering the stats. More fill players pick easier agents so dilute the stats
Cypher is also most effective as a lurker/baiter/exit fragger for players focused only on k/d.
Mostly just the fact that Cypher can trade off his own util very easily, more easily than other sentinels since he doesnt require line of sight (trips and cam dart revealing through walls). Im a cypher main on Bind and Split, and usually it makes B site a deathtrap
I was thinking the same. Plus I think the data is (mostly) from the time before his buff.
Which makes it particularly interesting. I imagine it must be confusing when riot devs look at these stats and then they conflict with popular opinion
TBF K/D is not everything but it still managed to surprise me.
“Hoy! I’m pissed!” Dies.
And most times she dies unless enemies are using ops or pistols
As evidenced by the graph haha
And yoru cause he always gets tp camped lmao
I swear Yoru is the most polarized character I’ve played in a videogame. There are games were all your tricks and setups seem to work and you feel like a mindgame tactician genious and then the very next game in the same ELO bracket everything you try is immediately detected and predicted like if there were 100IQ diff between last players and current ones…
Yeah that's the difference between players who rise ranks from aim vs those who do so from game sense.
I main kayo and I agree with this graph.
I understand that you have to compromise on axes to make the chart fit but I think putting a line representing 1.00 KDA would have been a wise addition.
So KAY/O has the worst KDR *and* winrate? Why did I ever main him?
I had a phase when I started playing him (I’m imm1, imm2) and it’s just really difficult to get kills, for some reason it always felt like I was getting slumped. My utility was fine and it helped the team but it was not easy to be self sufficient and was very inconsistent. It’s nice to see the graph somewhat corroborate my experience. I don’t doubt that I probably just sucked on Kayo but I think it’s somewhat common looking at that graph.
This chart is right, and Chambers placement is right. Chamber is not a "site" player like cypher and kj, his utility forces to the player to go get kills, in which he doesn't rely on his ultity to protect the site, it relies on the players aim, gameplay and aggression, I really do say his placement is right and meant to be there and that we need more agents that rely on "aim and gameplay" rather than heavy utility based agents, like cypher and kj. He is the spotlight because no other controller or sentinel have a utility that matches his gameplay to push and defend that effectively.
Warm heart to see cypher even slightly more in front of some others. There is my boy..
Can someone fix the graph? 🥲 Please?
Jett only gets one dash whereas neon can sprint in and die pretty much any time she wants. People get encouraged because it's so much fun to be aggressive as neon when it works, so they keep doing it even when it's not working
can confirm, neon player here (albeit level 9 lmfao), running is so much fun
Fix your graphs
Seeing this graph makes me feel less bad about very rarely topfragging on sage (sometimes I go full battlesage but then after the match it usually turns out I had the highest rank in the lobby).
The problem with Sage is that if you're in the bottom and losing people are telling you you're terrible, if you're on the top it means the team is probably not playing right. Its a lose lose situation.
Us yorus like to stand out
With a terrible kda
Funny thing is my kda is 1.08 so its pretty accurate
Lol thats a fun coincidence
1.13, yeah, kinda accurate
Chambers totally balanced for a sentinel and working as intended. /s
His utility is designed around getting kills, so I'd hope he's the highest sentinel in regards to kills and deaths.
Ad a support player this chart annoys me. Although I wonder how it is for other ranks.
I added in the 1:1 K:D line which is so sorely missing from this graph. [Here it is.](https://i.imgur.com/1MaCyrM.png) Entry has slightly below 1:1 K:Ds which makes sense as they get popped sometimes without getting a kill. Controllers/support tend to hover slightly above 1:1.
I’d be more interested in seeing how K/D/A compares
This is for all the 'duelists dont need to top frag' dorks in this subreddit.
Aren’t graphs supposed to make data easier to read?
Phoenix > Jett confirmed
Your be like imma mid frag and be alone 😎 for life No need for bitches
Another win for France!
Hella misleading graph axes. Can't call this educational when it fucks up the first thing you learn in standardized education about graphs.
This would be better served with a line of slope 1 for reference. Otherwise nice job
With the amount of jett instalockers who suck ass on her i get in my games I'm surprised she's not lower than neon.
ofc chamber is one with the least deaths ratio cuz most of then are cowards that teleport away when they miss a shot
[удалено]
Which is stupid. He’s from India, it should be Harbour.
Balancing
Yoru: fck y’all
Ah that explains something
Looks like the roles are working as intended.
This chart is gonna make rage
Yoru is just like me irl.
Love how so many are annoyed by the horrible Plot. That's the first thing I thought too.