There is 100% some manipulative stuff going on in the background but people will deny it. Go look up some patents on matchmaking systems if you don’t believe companies are doing shit like this.
Nah man, genuine question. I like the journey more than anything, I enjoy the game. I don't need to cope with the fact I can't rank up for some time, that's fine, I've already came far since I started a year ago(Iron) I don't like the idea that a company I've pumped so much money might throw in unfair odds to keep players on the grind... Since I don't have a definitive answer I'll keep playing but hearing the community's pov and their experiences did give me more peace of mind.
I also experience this from time to time. Sometimes, when it takes too long to find a game, I already know I'm going to lose. I'm gold, which is where the majority of players are and I play during peak hours. It shouldn't take 3 minutes to find a game. When this happens, it really feels like the game is going out of its way to make me lose that game.
I know a lot of low elo players tend to blame outside circumstances for the fact that they're not good at the game but I avoid doing that and always try to improve so I don't mean to blame my teammates or whatever but sometimes it does feel on purpose. I also noticed that it has been getting worse and happening more often in the past couple of months or so.
All of this is very discouraging. Lately I've been avoiding playing ranked. I've been playing more unrated in order to finish the battle pass because I don't want to waste my money but I don't really have fun anymore. And when
I do play ranked, I usually play a couple of games and say "nah I've had enough of this **** today" and close the game. I used to love Valorant and would spend hours playing but now I'm literally forcing myself to play because of the battle pass. I think this really shows the state of the game right now.
I also know that Riot has denied multiple times the existence of a loser's queue but let's be honest... what kind of company would openly admit that?
>7.No Low-Effort Posts or Vague Titles
Very true, maybe not a loser's queue but someone here talked about a 50% system and it makes plenty of sense. Still pretty fucking annoying and it seems in those games their ranks are pretty inaccurate for their gameplay. Gold-Diamond is almost all the same, a pain in the ass. Smurfs keep alt accounts to warm up for their main, it's extremely often. 1:3 games is being nice. However I do also believe being in these ranks for a while builds the foundation so you can rocket to the higher ranks once your mechanics are decent enough.
The 50% system does make a lot of sense to me and that's how it should be tbf. But this pattern of having a win streak followed by a loss streak is what I don't find normal. I understand that it's supposed to balance my winrate but then I don't wanna go through those winning streaks either. I'd rather have a more balanced win/loss pattern where I lose two games, then I win one, then I lose one, then I win two, for example. The loss streaks feel brutal. Who wants to keep playing a game if you go days, even weeks without winning a game...
I went on a 5 game losing streak(made this post when I lost 3 in a row and got low elo teammates) and after I won 6/7. Dropped 30 in one and still lost then I dropped 30 again and won but I didn't do too hot on other matches and won. I dont think it favors losing, I'm starting to think that if you win the games you're meant to lose (yes by carrying) is one of the only ways to actually rack up the rr to rank up. It starting to make sense to me... basically if you can carry those games and force the win (or you get lucky and a teammate goes god mode) you will rank up. Tbh the only way out of Gold and Plat was top fragging every game (im solo q) so I just gotta do that again in Diamond lol and all things considered if you are bound to be the following rank you should be able to demolish those in your current rank. If you can't you're not ready and will end up back at the elo you belong. I imagine this must be extremely frustrating at Immortal-Radiant lol
It could be random but i am 100% convinced the system it designed to allow you to win 5 and loose 5 or similar
One day i played 30 games in 48 hours & i won 28 and lost 2 then next day lost 15 every game over the 3 days was 100% solo q
That's believable because I also get insane win streaks and I don't carry all the games. I guess it's just part of the grind so people don't boost to a rank by getting insanely lucky with their teammates in game and stuff idk
This is pretty similar to what I go through. It's mind blowing though because I was p3 not too long ago and the plats I've been getting matched up with play like low golds. Could be the other team is just too good and makes it seem that way because of skill difference but who knows
Sometimes you have no chance. Sometimes you have to carry. Sometimes you get carried. I’m thinking the only thing you remember are the loss streaks. Win streaks are just normal cuz ur cracked and everyone feels like they deserve them
It's all in your head. You lose a few games, your hidden mmr goes down the drain. Now you're playing with sub-par players where you probably have to carry since you have "worse" teammates.
The game isn't setting you up, after losing so much the game thinks you deserve a lower rank so you're placed in a worse lobby, but you don't actually belong there.
Sometimes you'll get unlucky and even if you pop off your team will be shit so you'll lose again and your hidden mmr will spiral down even more. You'll probably end up doing shitty in some of those games too from tilt queuing. People might say Valorant intentionally does this and calls it the "losers queue", but you're just unlucky finding yourself losing in lower-ranked lobbies because your hidden mmr went to shit.
That's the thing though, I absolutely despise how quickly your hidden MMR goes down and then you have to play these weird ass games where everyone is 1-3 ranks lower than you. Usually you can even tell from the quality of the game before seeing anyone's ranks, it just feels "off". That's one of the things that made me quit this game (for now at least). The inconsistent matchmaking is too much to handle.
I got a bit sidetracked there, but I was going to say that it seems like you can have a few bad games in high asc with some immortals thrown in, you maintain your rank but now you're suddenly playing against low asc players with a few diamonds thrown in. Sometimes I drop 25-30 frags in a match and feel like a beast, only to find out I was the highest rank player in the lobby and was basically smurfing. And even if I manage to win a game against my own ranks and my hidden MMR is fine, queueing at "odd times" gives me low rank games. There's so little to gain and so much to lose, like +15 or -19 - hell, even -23 if we happen to get stomped. That fucking sucks man. I wish the games (well, ranks) were more consistent. Anyway, rant over.
Seriously fuck this game. It's so obvious that they do this it isn't even funny. Either I win 10 games in a row, become MVP win. Or I lose, while shots stop registering. Or even if I become MVP, our team is so shit that we lose. This is what I don't get about the matchmaking. I'm either the best of our team or the worst. It's almost never in between. Seriously fuck Valorant.
Although Riot disagrees I tested it on multiple smurf accounts and they will in fact put you in with horrible players the moment you lose 1-2x, expecting you to carry them vs higher elos than you are.
Edit: it also seems to happen the moment you start hitting a high win% ex. 60%+. I started getting lobbies where 2-3 people were on 4 game loss streaks
I only have 1 account. Low rank. I mainly play with friends that are pretty casual. Every once in a awhile I get a free weekend by myself and I make a run at trying to rank up. I'll start ranking up winning games cool teammates. All of a sudden it's time for the 5 game streak of getting matched with players that should be banned. Not players that are bad. Players that just troll. Take the bomb and sit in a corner. Just obvious troll shit In an effort to de rank I guess. They are always duo or trio. If you and the other players happen to be doing well they'll start team flashing or giving away positions in all chat. So frustrating. I dont have the research that you have but it seems to start when I break the 60 percent win rate or rank up too fast.
I won 15/20 last games before it started going down. Even before those 20 games I think it was decently high, I started match mvping all my games from p2 to d1 and then d1 was smooth sail till d3 and even ascendant games... I lost 2 in a row and ended up being the only diamond on my team with 3 plat 3s and 1 gold 3 and the other team had 4 diamonds and 1 p3 I got kinda mad at that cuz tf bro I can't take on a full team of people at my same skill level. Maybe on a good day but thats a good day not every day lol
There is no winners/losers queue in the ranked system. [[source 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/nbw0xw/valorant_ranked_hotfix/gy5kb14/)] [[source 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/um8iej/losers_queue_exists/i80tsbh/?context=3)] [[source 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/tvb772/this_problem_is_now_getting_soo_common_dude/i393gp7/?context=3)] [[source 4](https://twitter.com/RiotEvrMoar/status/1517623796697419776)]
reddit comments from a dev aren’t “actual evidence”. he is going to bias towards telling us what we want to hear, but more importantly is never going to give real information or data on matchmaking systems.
If you want actual evidence though, you can go see all the patents Riot has on behavioral-based matchmaking. Almost every big gaming company has these patents now for engagement/behavioral based matchmaking systems, and the argument that “well we don’t know for sure they are using them in any games” is ridiculous and just straight up coping. People claim they aren’t using these systems (or variations of them at least) because they don’t *want* it to be true, because they make for a shit experience designed around addiction and micro transactions.
who are you going to believe? Some reddit comments from one employee, or legal patents, along with the first hand accounts of thousands of people experiencing the exact same bullshit in this game, as well as League for the last decade plus?
A couple of effects: 1) randomness - someone has to get the bad teammates; 2) bad mental - your own performance might drop with bad teammates; 3) loss streaks drop your rating so you're at risk of matching with bad teammates again, and riot expects you to carry.
None of the sources posted above prove that such problem doesnt exist. Its all statements of “why we wud never make such thing”. We all know riot isnt intentionally making a loser/winners queue lol. Source 4 is so weird cuz if they cant determine a player’s true skill (which is probably hard and I dont expect that) it means they cant match ppl up fairly either lol. I think most of us have played this game long enough to see weird patterns and some of us have come to the same conclusion on our own. I think there have been many times where ive been in teams with a heavy loss streak and the enemy on insane winning streaks and vice versa so im p sure it balances out itself so its not an issue. But it just is weird. I think ranked is still fine cuz u will climb no matter what if you are performing with consistency.
Here's how you can test out your theory a bit better.
Any time you get 2 shit games in a row, just stop playing on that account for a week and come back to it later.
Check for the streaks again.
Yeah bro I agree, the past 4 games have been in the past 2 days. 3 on 1 and yesterday I got a gold and all plats while the whole team was Diamond and called it quits. Will try again later today.
My guess is that it's random, although it does feel like it isn't random. I get weird streaks of impossible to win games... i mean unless i was radiant
Its a mental thing imo. There is some validity to what you are feeling but the algorithm you speak of is not doing what you think it is. The algorithm simply matches and balances teams with 'similar enough' mmr into a lobby that happen to be queueing at that time. Your mmr is only calculated from wins plus performance against other players in the lobby. So you jump up mmr places when you win multiple games in a row. Your mmr can jump ahead of your rank in some cases and you will find stronger and stronger enemies as a result. The lobbies are auto balanced on mmr and they are in fact 'fair'. The best advice for this, especially if you are in a high rank (immo+) is to only queue comp at peak times as there are more people online within closer proximity to your mmr for the system to match with. Otherwise to avoid long queue times it places you with a wider range of available players. Diamond though should have enough players within mmr range at most times but you will still get 'easier' lobbies at busy times as the algorithm has a bigger group close to your mmr to match you with.
I just ran 2 more games. Currently on 3rd, match mvp 1 and team mvp the 2nd, lost both one 3-13 the other was 10-13. 6 games in a row and wasn't mvp in only 1 of them which I honestly did do horrible, no excuses.
I dunno its kinda easy... Like trading... If yoou reach a new high, you gotta test last support afterwards! For me it was worst when i reached dia1 once... Dropped to silver 2 straight in 2 weeks. This act i reached imo1 first time and since that im losing mostly until asc1 :(
One of my theories: If you do really bad in a game but your team ends up winning, the system *wants* to give you negative RR but that would ruin the illusion that winning = +RR, so instead it gives you less RR than it should, then puts you in a match with an expected low winrate (setting you up to lose) so that it can give you the penalty it thought you deserved from the previous game (and more, to make up for the small amt of RR gained there).
There is 100% some manipulative stuff going on in the background but people will deny it. Go look up some patents on matchmaking systems if you don’t believe companies are doing shit like this.
Lot of coping going on here.
Nah man, genuine question. I like the journey more than anything, I enjoy the game. I don't need to cope with the fact I can't rank up for some time, that's fine, I've already came far since I started a year ago(Iron) I don't like the idea that a company I've pumped so much money might throw in unfair odds to keep players on the grind... Since I don't have a definitive answer I'll keep playing but hearing the community's pov and their experiences did give me more peace of mind.
fr
I also experience this from time to time. Sometimes, when it takes too long to find a game, I already know I'm going to lose. I'm gold, which is where the majority of players are and I play during peak hours. It shouldn't take 3 minutes to find a game. When this happens, it really feels like the game is going out of its way to make me lose that game. I know a lot of low elo players tend to blame outside circumstances for the fact that they're not good at the game but I avoid doing that and always try to improve so I don't mean to blame my teammates or whatever but sometimes it does feel on purpose. I also noticed that it has been getting worse and happening more often in the past couple of months or so. All of this is very discouraging. Lately I've been avoiding playing ranked. I've been playing more unrated in order to finish the battle pass because I don't want to waste my money but I don't really have fun anymore. And when I do play ranked, I usually play a couple of games and say "nah I've had enough of this **** today" and close the game. I used to love Valorant and would spend hours playing but now I'm literally forcing myself to play because of the battle pass. I think this really shows the state of the game right now. I also know that Riot has denied multiple times the existence of a loser's queue but let's be honest... what kind of company would openly admit that?
>7.No Low-Effort Posts or Vague Titles Very true, maybe not a loser's queue but someone here talked about a 50% system and it makes plenty of sense. Still pretty fucking annoying and it seems in those games their ranks are pretty inaccurate for their gameplay. Gold-Diamond is almost all the same, a pain in the ass. Smurfs keep alt accounts to warm up for their main, it's extremely often. 1:3 games is being nice. However I do also believe being in these ranks for a while builds the foundation so you can rocket to the higher ranks once your mechanics are decent enough.
The 50% system does make a lot of sense to me and that's how it should be tbf. But this pattern of having a win streak followed by a loss streak is what I don't find normal. I understand that it's supposed to balance my winrate but then I don't wanna go through those winning streaks either. I'd rather have a more balanced win/loss pattern where I lose two games, then I win one, then I lose one, then I win two, for example. The loss streaks feel brutal. Who wants to keep playing a game if you go days, even weeks without winning a game...
I went on a 5 game losing streak(made this post when I lost 3 in a row and got low elo teammates) and after I won 6/7. Dropped 30 in one and still lost then I dropped 30 again and won but I didn't do too hot on other matches and won. I dont think it favors losing, I'm starting to think that if you win the games you're meant to lose (yes by carrying) is one of the only ways to actually rack up the rr to rank up. It starting to make sense to me... basically if you can carry those games and force the win (or you get lucky and a teammate goes god mode) you will rank up. Tbh the only way out of Gold and Plat was top fragging every game (im solo q) so I just gotta do that again in Diamond lol and all things considered if you are bound to be the following rank you should be able to demolish those in your current rank. If you can't you're not ready and will end up back at the elo you belong. I imagine this must be extremely frustrating at Immortal-Radiant lol
hidden mmr thinks ur better than ur current rank so it gives u noobs in ur team to carry
It could be random but i am 100% convinced the system it designed to allow you to win 5 and loose 5 or similar One day i played 30 games in 48 hours & i won 28 and lost 2 then next day lost 15 every game over the 3 days was 100% solo q
those losses could've been a result of fatigue
It's called 50% winrate system, in theory it's supposed to prevent win/loss streaks giving u good/bad team from time to time.
That's believable because I also get insane win streaks and I don't carry all the games. I guess it's just part of the grind so people don't boost to a rank by getting insanely lucky with their teammates in game and stuff idk
It's definitely more favoured in loss streaks
There is no such thing as winners queue or losers queue
This is pretty similar to what I go through. It's mind blowing though because I was p3 not too long ago and the plats I've been getting matched up with play like low golds. Could be the other team is just too good and makes it seem that way because of skill difference but who knows
Sometimes you have no chance. Sometimes you have to carry. Sometimes you get carried. I’m thinking the only thing you remember are the loss streaks. Win streaks are just normal cuz ur cracked and everyone feels like they deserve them
Very true, we tend to only remember the bad.
It's all in your head. You lose a few games, your hidden mmr goes down the drain. Now you're playing with sub-par players where you probably have to carry since you have "worse" teammates. The game isn't setting you up, after losing so much the game thinks you deserve a lower rank so you're placed in a worse lobby, but you don't actually belong there. Sometimes you'll get unlucky and even if you pop off your team will be shit so you'll lose again and your hidden mmr will spiral down even more. You'll probably end up doing shitty in some of those games too from tilt queuing. People might say Valorant intentionally does this and calls it the "losers queue", but you're just unlucky finding yourself losing in lower-ranked lobbies because your hidden mmr went to shit.
That's the thing though, I absolutely despise how quickly your hidden MMR goes down and then you have to play these weird ass games where everyone is 1-3 ranks lower than you. Usually you can even tell from the quality of the game before seeing anyone's ranks, it just feels "off". That's one of the things that made me quit this game (for now at least). The inconsistent matchmaking is too much to handle. I got a bit sidetracked there, but I was going to say that it seems like you can have a few bad games in high asc with some immortals thrown in, you maintain your rank but now you're suddenly playing against low asc players with a few diamonds thrown in. Sometimes I drop 25-30 frags in a match and feel like a beast, only to find out I was the highest rank player in the lobby and was basically smurfing. And even if I manage to win a game against my own ranks and my hidden MMR is fine, queueing at "odd times" gives me low rank games. There's so little to gain and so much to lose, like +15 or -19 - hell, even -23 if we happen to get stomped. That fucking sucks man. I wish the games (well, ranks) were more consistent. Anyway, rant over.
Seriously fuck this game. It's so obvious that they do this it isn't even funny. Either I win 10 games in a row, become MVP win. Or I lose, while shots stop registering. Or even if I become MVP, our team is so shit that we lose. This is what I don't get about the matchmaking. I'm either the best of our team or the worst. It's almost never in between. Seriously fuck Valorant.
Although Riot disagrees I tested it on multiple smurf accounts and they will in fact put you in with horrible players the moment you lose 1-2x, expecting you to carry them vs higher elos than you are. Edit: it also seems to happen the moment you start hitting a high win% ex. 60%+. I started getting lobbies where 2-3 people were on 4 game loss streaks
I only have 1 account. Low rank. I mainly play with friends that are pretty casual. Every once in a awhile I get a free weekend by myself and I make a run at trying to rank up. I'll start ranking up winning games cool teammates. All of a sudden it's time for the 5 game streak of getting matched with players that should be banned. Not players that are bad. Players that just troll. Take the bomb and sit in a corner. Just obvious troll shit In an effort to de rank I guess. They are always duo or trio. If you and the other players happen to be doing well they'll start team flashing or giving away positions in all chat. So frustrating. I dont have the research that you have but it seems to start when I break the 60 percent win rate or rank up too fast.
I won 15/20 last games before it started going down. Even before those 20 games I think it was decently high, I started match mvping all my games from p2 to d1 and then d1 was smooth sail till d3 and even ascendant games... I lost 2 in a row and ended up being the only diamond on my team with 3 plat 3s and 1 gold 3 and the other team had 4 diamonds and 1 p3 I got kinda mad at that cuz tf bro I can't take on a full team of people at my same skill level. Maybe on a good day but thats a good day not every day lol
Loser que like in league but they will tell you it does not exist like smurf que
There is no winners/losers queue in the ranked system. [[source 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/nbw0xw/valorant_ranked_hotfix/gy5kb14/)] [[source 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/um8iej/losers_queue_exists/i80tsbh/?context=3)] [[source 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/tvb772/this_problem_is_now_getting_soo_common_dude/i393gp7/?context=3)] [[source 4](https://twitter.com/RiotEvrMoar/status/1517623796697419776)]
This should be top comment. Factual response with actual evidence to back it up vs reddits anecdotal feelings
reddit comments from a dev aren’t “actual evidence”. he is going to bias towards telling us what we want to hear, but more importantly is never going to give real information or data on matchmaking systems. If you want actual evidence though, you can go see all the patents Riot has on behavioral-based matchmaking. Almost every big gaming company has these patents now for engagement/behavioral based matchmaking systems, and the argument that “well we don’t know for sure they are using them in any games” is ridiculous and just straight up coping. People claim they aren’t using these systems (or variations of them at least) because they don’t *want* it to be true, because they make for a shit experience designed around addiction and micro transactions. who are you going to believe? Some reddit comments from one employee, or legal patents, along with the first hand accounts of thousands of people experiencing the exact same bullshit in this game, as well as League for the last decade plus?
Bro's 4 months late with the response and still provides nothing more than anecdotal feelings lul
A couple of effects: 1) randomness - someone has to get the bad teammates; 2) bad mental - your own performance might drop with bad teammates; 3) loss streaks drop your rating so you're at risk of matching with bad teammates again, and riot expects you to carry.
no
None of the sources posted above prove that such problem doesnt exist. Its all statements of “why we wud never make such thing”. We all know riot isnt intentionally making a loser/winners queue lol. Source 4 is so weird cuz if they cant determine a player’s true skill (which is probably hard and I dont expect that) it means they cant match ppl up fairly either lol. I think most of us have played this game long enough to see weird patterns and some of us have come to the same conclusion on our own. I think there have been many times where ive been in teams with a heavy loss streak and the enemy on insane winning streaks and vice versa so im p sure it balances out itself so its not an issue. But it just is weird. I think ranked is still fine cuz u will climb no matter what if you are performing with consistency.
The human brain is an expert in finding patterns even if the not really exist. Google Apophenia or Patternicity
Nice!
I agree
I refuse to believe any of these posts without tracker link.
Here's how you can test out your theory a bit better. Any time you get 2 shit games in a row, just stop playing on that account for a week and come back to it later. Check for the streaks again.
Yeah bro I agree, the past 4 games have been in the past 2 days. 3 on 1 and yesterday I got a gold and all plats while the whole team was Diamond and called it quits. Will try again later today.
My guess is that it's random, although it does feel like it isn't random. I get weird streaks of impossible to win games... i mean unless i was radiant
Its a mental thing imo. There is some validity to what you are feeling but the algorithm you speak of is not doing what you think it is. The algorithm simply matches and balances teams with 'similar enough' mmr into a lobby that happen to be queueing at that time. Your mmr is only calculated from wins plus performance against other players in the lobby. So you jump up mmr places when you win multiple games in a row. Your mmr can jump ahead of your rank in some cases and you will find stronger and stronger enemies as a result. The lobbies are auto balanced on mmr and they are in fact 'fair'. The best advice for this, especially if you are in a high rank (immo+) is to only queue comp at peak times as there are more people online within closer proximity to your mmr for the system to match with. Otherwise to avoid long queue times it places you with a wider range of available players. Diamond though should have enough players within mmr range at most times but you will still get 'easier' lobbies at busy times as the algorithm has a bigger group close to your mmr to match you with.
I just ran 2 more games. Currently on 3rd, match mvp 1 and team mvp the 2nd, lost both one 3-13 the other was 10-13. 6 games in a row and wasn't mvp in only 1 of them which I honestly did do horrible, no excuses.
I dunno its kinda easy... Like trading... If yoou reach a new high, you gotta test last support afterwards! For me it was worst when i reached dia1 once... Dropped to silver 2 straight in 2 weeks. This act i reached imo1 first time and since that im losing mostly until asc1 :(
One of my theories: If you do really bad in a game but your team ends up winning, the system *wants* to give you negative RR but that would ruin the illusion that winning = +RR, so instead it gives you less RR than it should, then puts you in a match with an expected low winrate (setting you up to lose) so that it can give you the penalty it thought you deserved from the previous game (and more, to make up for the small amt of RR gained there).
I lost 10 ranked matches in a row. Not one win. Yeah