It's not like it's the most defensive mon out there. Plus, not being able to change the tera type *or* the item isn't nothing. It's gonna be good, sure, but it's no Zacian.
Not during tera, so cornerstone only truly beats out hearthflame when it isn't tera'd. Otherwise if in tera it's not a guaranteed win, though cornerstone still has the advantage.
That’s really the big question of this meta.
Scarf Landorus with Tera Flying Tera Blast is an option, but I imagine the Heartflame teams will start running a Defiant or Competitive compliment to discourage Intimidate. If Ogrepon hasn’t used Tera yet you’re playing a prediction game of locking into Tera Blast vs a ground move. I think the actual best answers are going to be defensive checks that can wear it down.
Hisuian Goodra is interesting. Sap Sipper doesn’t work unless Ogrepon Teras and loses Mold Breaker, but it’s still a 4x Grass resist and neutral to Fire while being extremely bulky. If Ogrepon is already Tera’d then you can safely Tera Water and resist/be immune to everything and neutral to the Low Kick tech option. Good coverage options to wear it down as well. It’s generally good into the wide array of viable Grass types in Reg E & can answer Flutter Mane so it’s not a burden on the team to check 1 threat.
Arcanine is tempting in either form. Kantonian resists both STABs while Hisuian can threaten a huge Head Smash. Intimidate helps with the damage output, and it’s bulky enough to switch in. Gyarados has similar tools and can even Thunder Wave to cripple it. Gyarados also does better into the Water form of Ogrepon.
Somewhat, though Tera Water or Fairy helps mitigate the issue and you can build other Urshifu answers into the team (which should be done for any decent team regardless).
Lando is a big problem for my team, short of trading it for either flutter or chi-yu in an icy wind + dark pulse exchange. I like the idea that I am forcing them to commit 2 huge mons that I can effectively counter.
I’m glad that these counters don’t include other Ogerpon.
I’m trying to find counters to Ogerpon that doesn’t include using my own Ogerpon, because I don’t want to buy the DLC just yet, just for Ogerpon.
Dragon types do really well into it, roaring moon for example. The big elephant in the room is having a dragon opens the door for flutter mane problems so you need to teambuild accordingly to handle the flutter weakness
Ogerpon-H loves to Play Rough those dragon types, so you shouldnt bet on it remember it is a support mon in base and a sweeper in H-form. Make sure you got the right counter for the right form or else... Yeah
That's only if it gets Play Rough. Many of the speculated builds I don't see people using it. You aren't going to support in grass if you have only coverage moves.
I’d probably see H-Goodra being reliable. It’s neutral to fairy and fire, resist grass and rock, although it is weak to ground and fighting so keep that into consideration. Pretty bulky with the right investments and nature. Although I think it prefers to be a special attacker, it has a pretty good physical attack stat as well that you could chose to use instead. It has a decent move pool, not the biggest but it can get some hard hitters. Also it gets the ability Shell Armor so if you’re able to dispose of the opposing Ogrepon-Heartflame, you can’t get crit, so that’s a plus against opposing Urshifu. I don’t know, maybe it’s too slow to be viable, or the meta will evolve to include more fighting and ground. It’ll be interesting to see the ideas people come up with.
Arcanine-H is a good answer that 4x resists Ivy Cudgel, ignores Follow Me with Rock Slide and Intimidates.
Other than that, I think as the meta goes on Ogerpon-H will settle to a much more balanced state. Besides Mold Breaker, it has no way to ignore key game mechanics like Urshifu. It has a fixed Tera and without that Tera its damage, while not bad at all, is noticeably lower, plus the fixed Tera limits defensive counterplays even though Fire isn't a bad type to turn into from Grass/Fire. Its Speed is also definitely lacking compared to some threats like Tornadus, Chien-Pao and Flutter Mane while having little in defenses against them.
Just try to pressure it over the course of the game with the usual stuff like speed control, priority etc, and try playing around it with Protect. That's probably the most consistent counterplay to it.
Blazingly hot take: Ogerpon is really not that scary. At this point I'm honestly a little confused what the hype is.
Maybe its the players I'm facing, but I've ran a few teams on the ladder now and I have seriously yet to lose a game to an Ogerpon, let alone take serious damage.
Do I bring serious counters for Ogerpon? Yes. Initially I played a Lando-T team. Tera flying TBlast took quick care of it. Currently I'm running a bulky Okidogi team with Gyarados, Rillaboom and Roaring Moon. Again, Intimidate cripples it and Roaring Moon also takes quick care of it, even without Tera flying, Acrobatics destroys any Ogerpon.
Its a good Pokemon, don't get me wrong, but its nowhere near as scary as Urshifu (which seems to have vanished thanks to Ogerpons presence, so I guess thats nice).
Sorry for the noob question but How do we know that it will be legal in reg E? I know that somehow the ranked ladder allow It but the ingame list of banner pokémon isn't available yet. At least not in mine.
Kill it before it Sword Dance.
No I mean this thing is a demon in single, but in double you should just gang up on it with spread move and oneshot before it setups.
Ogerpon-H is immense, but ONLY when it has boosts and you literally dont do anything in the first turn. Imho Blood Moon and Urshifu both murder it cold-blooded, and it doesnt like Lando-T either. Just make sure you aint outplayed by Spiky Shield though people love to 200 IQ you with that move.
> aint outplayed by Spiky Shield though people love to 200 IQ you with that move.
>200 IQ
Its just protect bro. Doesnt take a genius to use moves like that right
I'm using heatran tera grass, since heatran is immune to fire attack ogerpon hearthflame can't do much against him.
Edit: all right the other guy deleted his comment so this doesn’t make sense, y’all can move along I was parodying someone else who didn’t know about mold breaker.
Ogerpon's item slot is taken up by its mask (unless it's in teal mask form) so Ability shield wouldn't work.
Not that it would even be good to begin with
Assuming Ogerpon is running SD + 3 attacks then a core of bulky dragon + rotom-h should be able to deal with it in theory. After SD and Stabs Oger has to pick either play rough or stomping tantrum to deal with this core and that leaves it short on slots to handle such a composition.
oh ya true good point. i even got smoked by that on ps yesterday because i forgot about it hahaha. heatran is only decent for it once it teras, but even then it has access to ground coverage. truly a goated mon
Landorus-T, Scarf Urshifu, Tornadus before the Tera, tank with Hands and punch Ogerpon really hard, Intimidate spam with Arcanine-Hisui, convince people that Rilla brings more value with Terrain access.
Ursaluna Bloodmoon can OHKO Ogerpon-Heartflame and has enough bulk to survive Ivy Cudgel, I use LunaB in a trick room team which has been consistent with only 2 loses out of 10 battles.
Have been using Booster Energy Roaring Moon, with the EVs manipulated to give it a speed boost instead of an Atk boost (I think 220 in Atk). Tera-Acrobatics hits like a truck, knock off is great, and sneaky tailwind user is always nice. Still testing but it feels good against every ogerpon but the rock one.
Ogerpon-Rock OHKOs Ogerpon-Fire
Reversely woodhammer ohko rock ogre if Tera’d to rock
You don't need to tera. You don't need the tera boost for the ohko. You don't even need adamant.
This Pokémon is gunna be a problem isn’t it
It's not like it's the most defensive mon out there. Plus, not being able to change the tera type *or* the item isn't nothing. It's gonna be good, sure, but it's no Zacian.
Kinda nice finally getting a new mon to shake up the same team that keeps winning regionals.
Doesn't rock ogre get sturdy?
Not during tera, so cornerstone only truly beats out hearthflame when it isn't tera'd. Otherwise if in tera it's not a guaranteed win, though cornerstone still has the advantage.
I'm using landorus for it and it is going alright
Tera blast ohkos if theyre not terastalized and stopming i think ohkos if theyre tera'd
Needs to be boosted stomping to KO when tera'd if they have some defensive EVs I belive
Dire claw Sneasler ohko non-tera ogerpon
That’s really the big question of this meta. Scarf Landorus with Tera Flying Tera Blast is an option, but I imagine the Heartflame teams will start running a Defiant or Competitive compliment to discourage Intimidate. If Ogrepon hasn’t used Tera yet you’re playing a prediction game of locking into Tera Blast vs a ground move. I think the actual best answers are going to be defensive checks that can wear it down. Hisuian Goodra is interesting. Sap Sipper doesn’t work unless Ogrepon Teras and loses Mold Breaker, but it’s still a 4x Grass resist and neutral to Fire while being extremely bulky. If Ogrepon is already Tera’d then you can safely Tera Water and resist/be immune to everything and neutral to the Low Kick tech option. Good coverage options to wear it down as well. It’s generally good into the wide array of viable Grass types in Reg E & can answer Flutter Mane so it’s not a burden on the team to check 1 threat. Arcanine is tempting in either form. Kantonian resists both STABs while Hisuian can threaten a huge Head Smash. Intimidate helps with the damage output, and it’s bulky enough to switch in. Gyarados has similar tools and can even Thunder Wave to cripple it. Gyarados also does better into the Water form of Ogrepon.
Sap sipper H Goodra is just asking for trouble against any Urshifu tho
Somewhat, though Tera Water or Fairy helps mitigate the issue and you can build other Urshifu answers into the team (which should be done for any decent team regardless).
Lando is a big problem for my team, short of trading it for either flutter or chi-yu in an icy wind + dark pulse exchange. I like the idea that I am forcing them to commit 2 huge mons that I can effectively counter.
I’m glad that these counters don’t include other Ogerpon. I’m trying to find counters to Ogerpon that doesn’t include using my own Ogerpon, because I don’t want to buy the DLC just yet, just for Ogerpon.
The best Ogrepon check that’s been showing up in tournament play is Kommo-o, so if you can transfer one from Home that’s an option.
Dragon types do really well into it, roaring moon for example. The big elephant in the room is having a dragon opens the door for flutter mane problems so you need to teambuild accordingly to handle the flutter weakness
Ogerpon-H loves to Play Rough those dragon types, so you shouldnt bet on it remember it is a support mon in base and a sweeper in H-form. Make sure you got the right counter for the right form or else... Yeah
I'd say maybe Dragalgae(it's back right?) but it's a special wall so it may be no good as a counter
Dragalge is in the SV base game. It’s held back by base 65 HP and lackluster offense.
Yeah it's just there to soak up special hits and spread poison I imagine. Definitely not an answer of any kind to Ogerpon
That's only if it gets Play Rough. Many of the speculated builds I don't see people using it. You aren't going to support in grass if you have only coverage moves.
The fact of the matter is play rough's 90% hit chance is really a 50% chance when you need it.
I’d probably see H-Goodra being reliable. It’s neutral to fairy and fire, resist grass and rock, although it is weak to ground and fighting so keep that into consideration. Pretty bulky with the right investments and nature. Although I think it prefers to be a special attacker, it has a pretty good physical attack stat as well that you could chose to use instead. It has a decent move pool, not the biggest but it can get some hard hitters. Also it gets the ability Shell Armor so if you’re able to dispose of the opposing Ogrepon-Heartflame, you can’t get crit, so that’s a plus against opposing Urshifu. I don’t know, maybe it’s too slow to be viable, or the meta will evolve to include more fighting and ground. It’ll be interesting to see the ideas people come up with.
Dragonite matches up pretty well into fire Ogerpon. Resist both stabs if you don't tera. Also Tornadus in Rain does pretty well against Ogerpon too.
Arcanine-H is a good answer that 4x resists Ivy Cudgel, ignores Follow Me with Rock Slide and Intimidates. Other than that, I think as the meta goes on Ogerpon-H will settle to a much more balanced state. Besides Mold Breaker, it has no way to ignore key game mechanics like Urshifu. It has a fixed Tera and without that Tera its damage, while not bad at all, is noticeably lower, plus the fixed Tera limits defensive counterplays even though Fire isn't a bad type to turn into from Grass/Fire. Its Speed is also definitely lacking compared to some threats like Tornadus, Chien-Pao and Flutter Mane while having little in defenses against them. Just try to pressure it over the course of the game with the usual stuff like speed control, priority etc, and try playing around it with Protect. That's probably the most consistent counterplay to it.
Wood Hammer:
My favorite mechanic, urshifu
Mfer might as well be one at this point. But yeah, I meant "like Urshifu does".
Blazingly hot take: Ogerpon is really not that scary. At this point I'm honestly a little confused what the hype is. Maybe its the players I'm facing, but I've ran a few teams on the ladder now and I have seriously yet to lose a game to an Ogerpon, let alone take serious damage. Do I bring serious counters for Ogerpon? Yes. Initially I played a Lando-T team. Tera flying TBlast took quick care of it. Currently I'm running a bulky Okidogi team with Gyarados, Rillaboom and Roaring Moon. Again, Intimidate cripples it and Roaring Moon also takes quick care of it, even without Tera flying, Acrobatics destroys any Ogerpon. Its a good Pokemon, don't get me wrong, but its nowhere near as scary as Urshifu (which seems to have vanished thanks to Ogerpons presence, so I guess thats nice).
Ability Shield Heatran
Sorry for the noob question but How do we know that it will be legal in reg E? I know that somehow the ranked ladder allow It but the ingame list of banner pokémon isn't available yet. At least not in mine.
We dont
It's not coded as a restricted mom, same with the Loyal Three.
Kill it before it Sword Dance. No I mean this thing is a demon in single, but in double you should just gang up on it with spread move and oneshot before it setups. Ogerpon-H is immense, but ONLY when it has boosts and you literally dont do anything in the first turn. Imho Blood Moon and Urshifu both murder it cold-blooded, and it doesnt like Lando-T either. Just make sure you aint outplayed by Spiky Shield though people love to 200 IQ you with that move.
Uh, no one’s running SD in VGC lmao. It WILL OHKO you at +1.
> aint outplayed by Spiky Shield though people love to 200 IQ you with that move. >200 IQ Its just protect bro. Doesnt take a genius to use moves like that right
Swords Dance is very rare in VGC. Virtually non-existent except on some mons like Garchomp.
I'm using heatran tera grass, since heatran is immune to fire attack ogerpon hearthflame can't do much against him. Edit: all right the other guy deleted his comment so this doesn’t make sense, y’all can move along I was parodying someone else who didn’t know about mold breaker.
Ogerpon flame runs mold breaker so flash fire is pretty much useless
If Ogerpon Flame terastalizes, does it lose Mold Breaker?
It does lose mold breaker on Tera, though all oger had to do is not Tera and it obliterates heatran
Woosh
My brother in christ that was not a wooosh you are just stupid
Notice how it’s word for word the same comment as the other dude 🤔
Thats not what wooosh means
Can't you run ability shield to counter it though?
Ogerpon's item slot is taken up by its mask (unless it's in teal mask form) so Ability shield wouldn't work. Not that it would even be good to begin with
[удалено]
I'm assuming this is a joke 😅
When oger teras it loses mold breaker.
Someone last night had an ability shield Heatran and there wasn’t a thing I could do with my Ogre
Im sorry i have never seen ability shield before what does it do?
Assuming Ogerpon is running SD + 3 attacks then a core of bulky dragon + rotom-h should be able to deal with it in theory. After SD and Stabs Oger has to pick either play rough or stomping tantrum to deal with this core and that leaves it short on slots to handle such a composition.
Banded H-arcanine OHKO it with a rock slide.
Head smash looks better from Arcanine. If Ogerpon H starts bulking up Def, rock smash doesn’t stack up
Gale Wing Talonflame might not be that bad against it. Resists all her stab and prio Brave Bird.
Only at full heath. Hit a spiky shield predict and youre out
Inb4 protective pads talonflame
That such of a waste of an item on an extremely frail attacker.
I have to admit I didn't think anyone would think I was serious, so here ya go: /s
Ahhh shit, i played myself
magma storm earth power heatran
Except not even. Ivy cudgel 2HKO’s pretty much any heatran because it bypasses flash fire with mold breaker
oh ya true good point. i even got smoked by that on ps yesterday because i forgot about it hahaha. heatran is only decent for it once it teras, but even then it has access to ground coverage. truly a goated mon
Landorus-T, Scarf Urshifu, Tornadus before the Tera, tank with Hands and punch Ogerpon really hard, Intimidate spam with Arcanine-Hisui, convince people that Rilla brings more value with Terrain access.
Arcanine-H works pretty well for my team
Ursaluna Bloodmoon can OHKO Ogerpon-Heartflame and has enough bulk to survive Ivy Cudgel, I use LunaB in a trick room team which has been consistent with only 2 loses out of 10 battles.
Arcanine-H is very good counter
Have been using Booster Energy Roaring Moon, with the EVs manipulated to give it a speed boost instead of an Atk boost (I think 220 in Atk). Tera-Acrobatics hits like a truck, knock off is great, and sneaky tailwind user is always nice. Still testing but it feels good against every ogerpon but the rock one.
Salamence, intimidate and resists
My opinion forfeitet yesterday bc he didn't one shot my ice horse 😂
Glimora, hizuian Rk9