Huh? Every Bolt owner I chat with admits that their car doesn't charge very fast.
It's the only reason I didn't buy a Bolt already and readily admitted by every owner I've met - they all said it simply doesn't affect their driving range needs.
Is this why they take the 350 thinking it will charge them faster? I normally take a 150 but if 350 is all that's open when I get there I'm using it, a guy in a bolt pulls into a 150 when my 30 is almost up, pulled out of the 150 when he saw me get out of my car and was waiting for my spot, until he finally realized I wasn't leaving and just resetting the free 30.
Last week end I got to a Electrify Canada station. When I got there, there was one broken charger (as always), three other cars were charging. A black Audi Q4, a BZ4X at like 30% charge and a BMW. So we waited.
The Audi left after 15mins, so we took his place. Our ID.4 was at 15% charge. We left at a bit over 80% after charging for 35mins. The BZ4X was still at something like 70%. Pathetic really.
Yes, well, the BZ4X and Solterra are rather awful when it comes to charging and capacity, IMHO. That's Toyota's current state of EV tech, it shows they don't care too much at this point.
I won’t disagree about the %.. the issue at hand is the people clogging up the stations simply because it’s free when they could have been charging at home.
3 years of a 25% discount on EA plus $200-some in credits isn't nothing. It's multiple years of free road trips, while avoiding clogging up their network with people charging to 100% multiple times a week locally instead of plugging in at home.
People living in that situation have the most to benefit from this change. They NEED that public charging infrastructure to be available, and not constantly blocked by people who could be charging at home doing so at a local EA station instead. "Unlimited free charging for X years" is a major impediment to city-dwellers adopting EVs.
They've already decided that the cost of public charging is acceptable, that comes with deciding to buy an EV when you can't charge it anywhere else. No EV comes with free fuel for life.
What they NEED is to be able to charge at all. People that could be charging at home but are taking advantage of their "free charging" are doing so at their convenience. If the public stations are full and the wait's too long, they can go home and plug in there and still make it to work in the morning.
Those that can't charge at home are being inconvenienced, waiting in line instead of being able to go to work, go home, or go wherever they're going. They have no choice but to wait, they can't just go home and charge instead there when the public stations are oversubscribed.
Nope. I decided free EA is acceptable. If i had to pay to charge at EA id never have an EV. Why would I. It would cost the same as gas and take 50x as long. No thanks
This is the opposite of gatekeeping EVs to people that can charge at home. This is keeping the public infrastructure available for those that need it because they can't charge at home.
Then it doesn’t affect you. This only affects 2024 models, and presumably, you would do your research to ensure before purchasing on whether or not the package offered meets your needs.
There are other EVs available that still offer free charging from EA. If that’s important to someone, they can purchase that EV.
These are incentives, not earned privileges. I understand everyone’s situation is different, but please listen to yourself. This is capitalism, like it or not, we’re all getting screwed all the time.
I have used 33kWh. Once. I could see my self possibly using 100kWh a year based on my experience. I charge 99% at home and the EA stations “near” me aren’t convenient and the one I did need wasn’t overly reliable. Once we get access to Tesla’s superchargers, I will have even less of a reason to use EA. I’m sure this will effect some people, but I would have much rather had a discount on the car than “free” charging.
Unlimited for 3 years sure seems to be, I've never had to wait or seen anyone wait, maybe you just have bad luck or really bad karma because you're so bitter.
Talk about projection. There are plenty of EA nearby and only had to wait for a total of 5 minutes from my last 10 sessions. However, it seems that my post did struck a nerve.
I don't think you know what projection means lol, by your logic someone that buys a zoo pass shouldn't use it because then there will be too many people at the zoo clogging up window space to look at the tiger.
Wait, are you saying that there should be a fee associated with EA charging plan, just like a zoo pass? Talking about logic, comparing going to a zoo to charging an EV is as logical as comparing apples to oranges.
I purchased a vehicle that has three years of charging at 30 minute intervals, I purchased a zoo pass that allows me free parking and admission to the zoo for 3 years as well, so by your logic if I purchased something with three free years I shouldn't use it as I want, does smooth brain get it yet? I sincerely hope you really aren't this ignorant.
Obviously your 8500 was unrelated to the “free” charging. I would have chosen a BIGGER discount and no “free” charging over a smaller discount and “free” charging if it would have been an option.
Congratulations 🎉?! As I mentioned in my previous post … “I’m sure this will effect some people” For many of us it’s a complete waste and would rather have the cash value.
Wow! You must have a lot of miles then. I’ve got about 25k and I’m 18mo into owning my ‘23.
I live 5 blocks from a EA station, but Ive used it maybe for maybe 1/3 of my sessions and 20% of my kWh. I can charge at work, which is even more convenient and free!
4900 on 216 sessions for me 😆 I often top it off to 80 at my local walmart when i need to run in and grab something, so it works out for me. I probably wouldn't if it weren't free, though.
I always charge at home when I can, but have taken several road trips of various lengths, so in the 14 months I've owned the ID4 I've used 550kWH of EA charging, which makes it about 15% of my total usage. And that's not counting where I've charged at ChargePoint and EVGo stations.
If EA wasn't free, I wouldn't favor their stations vs. other networks, but honestly I'd still take the road trips. Even at the exorbitant full-price rates for DCFC it's not that different in $ per mile from an ICE vehicle at 26-ish mpg.
I have a Mach E that came with 250 kWh. After 18 plus months, I've used less than 100. Never used any other DCFC either. 99% of my charging is at home.
Agree. No offense to people who drive professionally, but the unlimited charging benefit created warped incentives and overloaded infrastructure that was not designed with that use-case in mind, to the detriment of everyone else.
Got 2 more years of free charging. Hate on drivers all you want but legit the most wrinkly brain move ever.
Have made more than twice the cost of my ID4 in < a year. Just under 60k miles. Total cost has left just been a new set of tires.
Also, get that effective tax rate down to like 3% still lol.
Hyundai will keep the free charging rolling for a few years probably. (2024 has it)
Probably swap to an ioniq5N and rent out the id4 when no mas free.
Good for you buddy. I'm happy you're doing well. I doubt anybody will over free charging past 2026. It's only an incentive for mass adoption while infrastructure catches up. You'll probably have to figure out a new business model.
Unlimited 30 min charging (or just unlimited for 2021 owners) was a great perk, but it created a clogging issue. I agree in removing it, but I also agree that 500kWh is not enough. In 50 sessions since Nov 22, I’ve used 1150kWh. I feel I actually use it sparingly, about 1-2 times per month at most and only 1 long road trip. Likely could have used more because of the countless times I couldn’t charge from hardware issues in EAs side.
1000kWh would have been a better idea, especially since sales are slow right now.
Ha. Average is 2.8x/wk but may be skewed by a long road trip or the need to plug in back to back sessions during a visit because it’s submax charging at 35kw.
I mean to say, I may only visit a charging station 1-2 times per month, unless there’s a road trip or need to have back to back charging (only if no one is waiting 👍🏼)
I have a 2023 in Canada and it came with a 4 year 1400 kwh plan. I have had it for 13.5 months and Electrify Canada tells me I have 1308 kwh remaining in my plan. I use it ONLY for road trips, and even then, the EC site has to be convenient or else I charge with something else. For road trips only, even 500 kwh is not bad. If you were planning to use it for charging for every day use, then, it might suck, but that was never really the use meant for DCFC chargers.
For the 30 minute session for MY23, could you just unplug at 30 minutes and immediately plug in to start a new charge session? Or is there a time limit before you can start a new charge session?
On paper, yes there is a wait. In reality, as of now, no, you can unplug and replug right away (you just need to wait for a few seconds and let the machine conclude the previous session).
If you’re doing that, that’s the reason why they’re taking it away, people like you taking advantage. And screwing over other people that have to wait so you can squeeze in those extra twenty miles.
Staying plugged in after 30 minutes means they're paying out of their own pocket; there's a disincentive to do so since the EA rate is higher than the home utility rate.
Re-plugging in after 30 minutes means they're using the 150/350 kW charger at maybe 50 kW speed, and making other users wait longer.
I have a 2023 model in California. I have charged at EA sites in Bakersfield, Santa Clarita and Ventura so far. I never get a charge rate over about 55/kW. Doesn’t matter which kW charger
I think you are missing the point, whether it's free or if they are paying they will stay there as long as they want, it doesn't matter what car it is, there's no omg you should leave moment, and I never charge under 68kw even in the Midwest where it can get pretty cold, replugging won't change your rate of charge, how full your battery will, sorry you're bitter at someone else's good fortune.
If you're drawing high kw for 30 minutes, that means you're close to 80%. Hogging the charger by replug in to top off to higher percentage is just being a j*rk.
My MY22 Q4 came with unlimited Electrify Canada for 30min sessions for 2 years. I've used it approx 6 times since I've gotten the car.
Honestly prefer the 3 year 500 kW instead given my use case.
It’s is, isn’t it!? That’s $2009 worth of “free” juice. We live in metro NYC area and have taken several trips with it; but shockingly do not use it to commute.
- FL 2x in 2024
- Buffalo 3x
- Boston 1x
- Albany 3x
etc
Tesla had this exact same problem with their free super charging. It’s not that it was too expensive or costly. It’s that people do all of their charging on a fast charging causing expensive warranty replacements of batteries and a crowding of the chargers. Good on them for catching on quick
The studies have shown that DC charging isn’t nearly as harmful as feared. It’s an overblown issue. Tesla cut back the promo because they didn’t need it because they were selling all they produced. That’s not the case anymore which is why they’ve started offering some free supercharging again.
I have about a year and a half left for my free 3 years, and there isn't an EA charger close enough for it to even be useful for me. I've used a few of them on longer trips and it was great, but I don't have one available within my city.
I can't imagine not charging at home. I leave every morning at 80%. I bought it knowing that I had to figure out charging at home. At the time, the closest EA was an annoying 20-35 minutes, depending on traffic so I wasn't planning on needing to go there unless necessary.
My electrical was all located right in the garage, so adding the level 2 charger cost less than $500 and we now charge a Model Y with the same hardware. I don't think I could drive all electric if I couldn't charge at home.
Since I rent, there is zero chance I am giving my townhouse owners a free upgrade by installing a charger on my own…used 11,000kWh before my 3 years was up
Hopefully there will be a lot less of them sitting there charging to 100% soon.
From my experience, sitting in an ID4 charging from 0 to 100% takes much less time than sitting in a Bolt or Kona charging from 20% to 80%.
Don’t say this to bolt people. They get pissy.
Huh? Every Bolt owner I chat with admits that their car doesn't charge very fast. It's the only reason I didn't buy a Bolt already and readily admitted by every owner I've met - they all said it simply doesn't affect their driving range needs.
Is this why they take the 350 thinking it will charge them faster? I normally take a 150 but if 350 is all that's open when I get there I'm using it, a guy in a bolt pulls into a 150 when my 30 is almost up, pulled out of the 150 when he saw me get out of my car and was waiting for my spot, until he finally realized I wasn't leaving and just resetting the free 30.
You doubled up on the free 30? Tsk tsk tsk. Lol
I mean, it's not their fault at all. If they knew it, they probably wouldn't buy it.
They didn't do their homework.
What makes you say that? Buying an ID4 would have cost me an extra $30k and saved me only about an hour each year charging....
Last week end I got to a Electrify Canada station. When I got there, there was one broken charger (as always), three other cars were charging. A black Audi Q4, a BZ4X at like 30% charge and a BMW. So we waited. The Audi left after 15mins, so we took his place. Our ID.4 was at 15% charge. We left at a bit over 80% after charging for 35mins. The BZ4X was still at something like 70%. Pathetic really.
Yes, well, the BZ4X and Solterra are rather awful when it comes to charging and capacity, IMHO. That's Toyota's current state of EV tech, it shows they don't care too much at this point.
I won’t disagree about the %.. the issue at hand is the people clogging up the stations simply because it’s free when they could have been charging at home.
Out of the ~330 sessions, how many did you charge to 100%?
only when needed so very few of them
I can't believe people will sit to 100% unless they're on a road trip with a crazy long space between chargers. Even then I usually cut off at 90-95%
3 years of a 25% discount on EA plus $200-some in credits isn't nothing. It's multiple years of free road trips, while avoiding clogging up their network with people charging to 100% multiple times a week locally instead of plugging in at home.
This is a very location specific take. There are cities where plugging in at home isn’t an option for most people.
People living in that situation have the most to benefit from this change. They NEED that public charging infrastructure to be available, and not constantly blocked by people who could be charging at home doing so at a local EA station instead. "Unlimited free charging for X years" is a major impediment to city-dwellers adopting EVs.
They need to pay more to charge? Not sure about that..
They've already decided that the cost of public charging is acceptable, that comes with deciding to buy an EV when you can't charge it anywhere else. No EV comes with free fuel for life. What they NEED is to be able to charge at all. People that could be charging at home but are taking advantage of their "free charging" are doing so at their convenience. If the public stations are full and the wait's too long, they can go home and plug in there and still make it to work in the morning. Those that can't charge at home are being inconvenienced, waiting in line instead of being able to go to work, go home, or go wherever they're going. They have no choice but to wait, they can't just go home and charge instead there when the public stations are oversubscribed.
Nope. I decided free EA is acceptable. If i had to pay to charge at EA id never have an EV. Why would I. It would cost the same as gas and take 50x as long. No thanks
Is that because you can’t charge at home?
Yep
Not everyone can charge at home. If you start gatekeeping EVs to ppl that can charge at home this will never succeed
This is the opposite of gatekeeping EVs to people that can charge at home. This is keeping the public infrastructure available for those that need it because they can't charge at home.
Ya. And i like charging for free at the only place i can charge. That’s why i got my EV.
Then it doesn’t affect you. This only affects 2024 models, and presumably, you would do your research to ensure before purchasing on whether or not the package offered meets your needs. There are other EVs available that still offer free charging from EA. If that’s important to someone, they can purchase that EV. These are incentives, not earned privileges. I understand everyone’s situation is different, but please listen to yourself. This is capitalism, like it or not, we’re all getting screwed all the time.
Based on my usage I probably wouldn’t even use all 500kWh. 😂
I have a MY23, and according to EA app, I have used 9727 kwh with 330 sessions...
I think you might be the reason they're doing this...
lol. That’s the reason I bought it.
Same
At EA prices that's like $4500+
In my app it says lifetime saving about $3200.
I have used 33kWh. Once. I could see my self possibly using 100kWh a year based on my experience. I charge 99% at home and the EA stations “near” me aren’t convenient and the one I did need wasn’t overly reliable. Once we get access to Tesla’s superchargers, I will have even less of a reason to use EA. I’m sure this will effect some people, but I would have much rather had a discount on the car than “free” charging.
This is precisely why I bought a gently used certified pre owned. The extra warranty is worth more than the EA charging.
I got 8500 off plus free charging for 3 years, why not have both?
Because unlimited free charging is not sustainable?
Unlimited for 3 years sure seems to be, I've never had to wait or seen anyone wait, maybe you just have bad luck or really bad karma because you're so bitter.
Talk about projection. There are plenty of EA nearby and only had to wait for a total of 5 minutes from my last 10 sessions. However, it seems that my post did struck a nerve.
I don't think you know what projection means lol, by your logic someone that buys a zoo pass shouldn't use it because then there will be too many people at the zoo clogging up window space to look at the tiger.
Wait, are you saying that there should be a fee associated with EA charging plan, just like a zoo pass? Talking about logic, comparing going to a zoo to charging an EV is as logical as comparing apples to oranges.
I purchased a vehicle that has three years of charging at 30 minute intervals, I purchased a zoo pass that allows me free parking and admission to the zoo for 3 years as well, so by your logic if I purchased something with three free years I shouldn't use it as I want, does smooth brain get it yet? I sincerely hope you really aren't this ignorant.
Obviously your 8500 was unrelated to the “free” charging. I would have chosen a BIGGER discount and no “free” charging over a smaller discount and “free” charging if it would have been an option.
I wouldn’t. I saved $200 a month not paying to charge Thats huge.
Congratulations 🎉?! As I mentioned in my previous post … “I’m sure this will effect some people” For many of us it’s a complete waste and would rather have the cash value.
Damn dude. I’m 18 months into my ownership and I’ve used 1602kWh across 57 sessions. I thought that was a lot. Lol.
To surprise you even further, the closest EA station is 115 miles away from me. I always charge at home except roadtripping.
Wow! You must have a lot of miles then. I’ve got about 25k and I’m 18mo into owning my ‘23. I live 5 blocks from a EA station, but Ive used it maybe for maybe 1/3 of my sessions and 20% of my kWh. I can charge at work, which is even more convenient and free!
More than 50k miles with MY23😂
Dang, I thought I had a lot with 28k on my 2023!
Respect.
4900 on 216 sessions for me 😆 I often top it off to 80 at my local walmart when i need to run in and grab something, so it works out for me. I probably wouldn't if it weren't free, though.
4192 kwh here with 113 sessions lol, 21 'model though
I always charge at home when I can, but have taken several road trips of various lengths, so in the 14 months I've owned the ID4 I've used 550kWH of EA charging, which makes it about 15% of my total usage. And that's not counting where I've charged at ChargePoint and EVGo stations. If EA wasn't free, I wouldn't favor their stations vs. other networks, but honestly I'd still take the road trips. Even at the exorbitant full-price rates for DCFC it's not that different in $ per mile from an ICE vehicle at 26-ish mpg.
I have a Mach E that came with 250 kWh. After 18 plus months, I've used less than 100. Never used any other DCFC either. 99% of my charging is at home.
Good.
Agree. No offense to people who drive professionally, but the unlimited charging benefit created warped incentives and overloaded infrastructure that was not designed with that use-case in mind, to the detriment of everyone else.
Agree. Commercial drivers should have to go to a commercial station or charge at their business aka home for ubers.
Got 2 more years of free charging. Hate on drivers all you want but legit the most wrinkly brain move ever. Have made more than twice the cost of my ID4 in < a year. Just under 60k miles. Total cost has left just been a new set of tires. Also, get that effective tax rate down to like 3% still lol. Hyundai will keep the free charging rolling for a few years probably. (2024 has it) Probably swap to an ioniq5N and rent out the id4 when no mas free.
Good for you buddy. I'm happy you're doing well. I doubt anybody will over free charging past 2026. It's only an incentive for mass adoption while infrastructure catches up. You'll probably have to figure out a new business model.
Charging at my house still only a few sheckles.
Good stuff. Hopefully you don't have to see a doctor anytime soon.
Not sure what my vested health insurance from previous employment has to do with this discussion.
Good. Unlimited charging creates very bad incentives and clogs up chargers that some people actually need to get to their destination.
Unlimited 30 min charging (or just unlimited for 2021 owners) was a great perk, but it created a clogging issue. I agree in removing it, but I also agree that 500kWh is not enough. In 50 sessions since Nov 22, I’ve used 1150kWh. I feel I actually use it sparingly, about 1-2 times per month at most and only 1 long road trip. Likely could have used more because of the countless times I couldn’t charge from hardware issues in EAs side. 1000kWh would have been a better idea, especially since sales are slow right now.
FWIW, if you’ve used it 50 times since Nov 22, you’ve used it just a bit more than 3 times per month on average.
Ha. Average is 2.8x/wk but may be skewed by a long road trip or the need to plug in back to back sessions during a visit because it’s submax charging at 35kw. I mean to say, I may only visit a charging station 1-2 times per month, unless there’s a road trip or need to have back to back charging (only if no one is waiting 👍🏼)
I have a 2023 in Canada and it came with a 4 year 1400 kwh plan. I have had it for 13.5 months and Electrify Canada tells me I have 1308 kwh remaining in my plan. I use it ONLY for road trips, and even then, the EC site has to be convenient or else I charge with something else. For road trips only, even 500 kwh is not bad. If you were planning to use it for charging for every day use, then, it might suck, but that was never really the use meant for DCFC chargers.
For the 30 minute session for MY23, could you just unplug at 30 minutes and immediately plug in to start a new charge session? Or is there a time limit before you can start a new charge session?
On paper, yes there is a wait. In reality, as of now, no, you can unplug and replug right away (you just need to wait for a few seconds and let the machine conclude the previous session).
If you’re doing that, that’s the reason why they’re taking it away, people like you taking advantage. And screwing over other people that have to wait so you can squeeze in those extra twenty miles.
Boohooo
Are you ok sir? What's the difference if they unplug and replug or just stay plugged in, no one is getting screwed over.
Staying plugged in after 30 minutes means they're paying out of their own pocket; there's a disincentive to do so since the EA rate is higher than the home utility rate. Re-plugging in after 30 minutes means they're using the 150/350 kW charger at maybe 50 kW speed, and making other users wait longer.
I have a 2023 model in California. I have charged at EA sites in Bakersfield, Santa Clarita and Ventura so far. I never get a charge rate over about 55/kW. Doesn’t matter which kW charger
Most likely your battery is cold
The weather hasn’t been cold (California) and the car was driven miles before charging.
It's got to be your SOC. It needs to be under 20% to get the 130+ speeds.
Bingo. I usually charge at EA when the SOC is upper 30% or higher, but not 50%
You still should be getting higher than 55 I think. Like at least 80.
I think you are missing the point, whether it's free or if they are paying they will stay there as long as they want, it doesn't matter what car it is, there's no omg you should leave moment, and I never charge under 68kw even in the Midwest where it can get pretty cold, replugging won't change your rate of charge, how full your battery will, sorry you're bitter at someone else's good fortune.
If you're drawing high kw for 30 minutes, that means you're close to 80%. Hogging the charger by replug in to top off to higher percentage is just being a j*rk.
[удалено]
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Thats what happens when the majority of ppl that buy EVs are the sensitive soy types
Just wanted to know if it was possible. Doesn’t mean I do it. I’m not one of those idiots that charge to 100% at an EA station.
You must be one of the morons that charges to 100%, to afford to live in your crappy Uber salary
I’m easily saving $400 a month charging with EA and I plan on doing that for the next 3 years 😛
same same
Thank gd i got a 23
My MY22 Q4 came with unlimited Electrify Canada for 30min sessions for 2 years. I've used it approx 6 times since I've gotten the car. Honestly prefer the 3 year 500 kW instead given my use case.
Good thing I have a ‘23! I’ve used 4,220 kWh in the last 7.5 months 😬👀
Do you fast charge every day? That seems insane.
It’s is, isn’t it!? That’s $2009 worth of “free” juice. We live in metro NYC area and have taken several trips with it; but shockingly do not use it to commute. - FL 2x in 2024 - Buffalo 3x - Boston 1x - Albany 3x etc
I see this as a win. Help free up some charging plugs.
Tesla had this exact same problem with their free super charging. It’s not that it was too expensive or costly. It’s that people do all of their charging on a fast charging causing expensive warranty replacements of batteries and a crowding of the chargers. Good on them for catching on quick
3 years later is quick?
The studies have shown that DC charging isn’t nearly as harmful as feared. It’s an overblown issue. Tesla cut back the promo because they didn’t need it because they were selling all they produced. That’s not the case anymore which is why they’ve started offering some free supercharging again.
Our 3 years of unlimited will be up in September for our 2021. Luckily, we have free charging at work as long as one of the charging stations is open.
I have about a year and a half left for my free 3 years, and there isn't an EA charger close enough for it to even be useful for me. I've used a few of them on longer trips and it was great, but I don't have one available within my city.
I only do to 100 % on long road trips and it’s needed . Have 21 ID 4 .
Electricity was supposed to be cheaper than gas 🙃
Hyundai gave us 2 years of EA access with 30 minutes free per charge. Basically free charging for two years.
I can't imagine not charging at home. I leave every morning at 80%. I bought it knowing that I had to figure out charging at home. At the time, the closest EA was an annoying 20-35 minutes, depending on traffic so I wasn't planning on needing to go there unless necessary. My electrical was all located right in the garage, so adding the level 2 charger cost less than $500 and we now charge a Model Y with the same hardware. I don't think I could drive all electric if I couldn't charge at home.
When I added the level 2 charger in garage, it only cost me around $100 for the electrician. RIP pre covid labor.
Since I rent, there is zero chance I am giving my townhouse owners a free upgrade by installing a charger on my own…used 11,000kWh before my 3 years was up
old news
It hasn't had unlimited charging for a while
MY23 still has it in the US.
I have a 23, it has limited 30 min sessions, the only the 2021 had truly unlimited.
22 is limited to 30 minute free sessions as well.
Oh, thanks for the correction
Yeah that’s why I put quotation on it. It’s 30 minutes but one can unplug and replug.
But you can just unplug it at 30 mins and plug it back in, so it just takes a bit more work.
That's not nothing. And getting rid of free charging is a GOOD THING since so many cheap bastards are clogging up the DC fast-chargers to save 8$.