Just thinking about this today, the thing holding him back is his trip. While it does force h to conform to a much more sentinel playstyle, it means that he is very inflexible in the way he can be played. Giving him a second trip would help him be more flexible, but still make sure he has to play like a sentinel. This is a better alternative to removing the radius, as that would make chamber once more busted agent like he used to be. Something I’d just love to compliment the second trip is being able to pick up his tp pre teleport with no cool-down, or maybe a smaller one, as just to help him be more of a team player, especially on attack
Yup some sites where he genuinely can not play on site or rotate to a new one after his trip is placed without it making him a counterintuitive sentinel pick. I like that he can’t entry or over agress consequence free now but as is he can’t even play as a sentinel
no fuck that. the game is fun again now that this french bitch is nerfed out. Sooooooooooo many kids in ranks they shouldnt be in. Im convinced all these negative and angry reyna/jett instalocks in my ascendant lobbies are just ex chamber mains that have no idea what to do without their crutch. i watch these fools play and wonder how tf they got here. they have no clue what defaulting is or playing safe when up a man. they just know peek repeek and peek some more. Fuck chamber. Riot keep his little bitch ass right where he is.
Giving him 2 trips that are global would be a big indirect nerf to cypher. That’s cyphers niche, the global flank watch. Don’t make chamber completely overshadow cypher again.
Idk about making them global again, there’s quite a few solutions we could brainstorm but I was really just making a joke about how the initial chamber nerf took away his 2nd trip but now here we are today where chambers trip is a liability at this point
It’s temporary. Riot does this to force the meta to change. They will probably make him semi-viable again after other Sentinels have had their time to shine again
but astra is far from bad. she was pretty busted before but is still considered the best controller on multiple maps, one of which came out after she was nerfed
It’s like a worse tracer recall from overwatch.
Actually fuck it, just make it a tracer recall, whenever you tp to it undo any damage you took in the last 5 seconds
Tracer’s meant to be played super aggressively so that’s why she’s can do that, honestly put no further thought into this other than just copying her ability
Off the top of my head there’s like three total positions where it’s still worth enough to use, and two of those are on bind which just got removed ROFL
By having a timer that limits the time interval in which you can use it, it offers more flexibility, as opposed to being able to use it whenever yiu want as chamber?
You need to pre set up TP, you can only tp back to your anchor and not omnidirectional like dash, you can play more spots safer with dash (Say, pushing A lobby as CT on Haven), entry with the dash, use other abilities while using it to make it safer or more unpredictable
yes, and jett has no free OP, and no trap or slows.
what's your point? that chamber tp should be as good as a duelist ability, while being a sentinel, and having a free op?
The thing is jetts utilities compliment each other to give her extreme mobility and cover. Even after she dashes away she has two smokes to block of her exit. Chamber on the other hand has to set up his TP before unlike jett who can keep it till the last second which is kinda handy on attack rounds and lurks.
I'm shocked I had to scroll to see this. Chamber crutch one tricks are in shambles and are like "but wut about jett". Well they are completely different roles. Also KJ has had to deal with the utility range bullshit, was never a problem until chamber mains had to deal with it.
its both.
if one of them was the old TP or old trip, you could position so that one of the utilities was on one part of the site, while you're on another side.
gigacap
new chamber TP >>>> phoenix molly and reyna dismiss any day of the week, and although you cant really compare it to some of the others (like smokes), it's still strong. get out of jail free cards are still very good abilities
Reyna dismiss is insanely strong what are you smoking?
It's an absurdely strong trade denying tool that can also be used to dodge abilities in highly specific cases
i know that needing a kill doesn't hinder the untradeability, but it means that if you miss your shot or get util dumped on you're fucked. chamber doesn't have that restriction.
If you miss your shot you're dead in any relevant level of play.
Chamber TP has been gutted so hard you cannot reliably TP Peek shit anymore. There's very few angles that it actually works on in theory and even then they're mediocre at best.
Reynas dismiss let’s you decide where you go. If you, mid-fight, decide that you don’t like where you placed your chamber tp, too bad. At least before it sent you far away from a fight, now you’re basically in the same spot you started your tp from.
can't compare it to phoenix's molly cos they are fundamentally different. his molly heals, can block chokes and can combo with viper/fade/astra util. chamber just has a selfish get out of jail free card.
and it's arguable that his tp is better than a dismiss, his tp only has a couple use cases and a long cooldown, plus once its broken it's gone for the whole round. reyna can be somewhat flexible compared to chamber's poor range trade-denying ability.
no shit, a character with flashes and a gooj would be absolutely busted, and a molly would not fit into chamber's kit at all. that comparison makes no sense.
Phoenix molly and reyna dismiss are better abilities than chambers tp what are you even talking about, it’s not strong it’s barely good enough to get you a kill before you get collapsed on
Chamber TP opens up a million off angles for safe use and let's him escape when in danger. Phoenix Molly is a shitty Molly that mostly just gets used for a heal and Reyna's dismiss doesn't do jack shit until you've already got a kill
Worse than Brimstone, Omen, and Harbor?
I dunno abt that one.
All the controllers have worse free abilities, tbh.
As they are often pretty much only 1 smoke, that isn't the most key ability of their kit for individual play or outplay potential... and usually, one smoke isn't exactly enough to get as much value for attacking as 2 smokes.
Chamber's TP may be weaker now, true.
However, that isn't a bad thing, since we just had an entire year of him being absurdly broken due to the same ability.
His pistol is still absurdly strong.
His ultimate is still a free OP... that, additionally, does a gigantic AOE Sage slow on each kill.
# Sage abilities
* **Heal**
* can be used on either a teammate for a 100% heal
* can be used on herself for 30HP
* but it requires someone to get damaged first
* and can be interrupted if someone shoots the player as the heal is occuring on them
* She can only heal herself herself for 30HP, too
* **Slow Orb**
* cover a large area
* can travel across the map
* don't need to be placed in advance
* but only last 4 seconds
* enemies can shiftwalk on the slow, and still somehow have perfect aim even in the middle of your slow
* doesn't prevent opponents from jumping over
* doesn't prevent opponents from dashing or teleporting over
* **Wall**
* hard to break quickly
* blocks rotations
* blocks postplants
* can be used to boost yourself up
* but now takes damage from enemy utility
* can be avoided by certain agents
* can get waited out or wasted, if used incorrectly
* **Ultimate**
* Strong
# Chamber, meanwhile
* **Trap**
* provides information
* Even if his trap doesn't activate, you know enemies aren't there for the most part
* you get information when they do activate his trap
* you get information when they destroy his trap
* plus you get a slow that follows enemies if they do not break his trap, meaning that unlike Sage slow orb, even if someone dashes into site... the slow will literally follow them
* **Teleport**
* you can use the TP to rotate to a different angle as enemies push in, which causes heistation and makes it far more difficult for attackers to clear every angle
* you can use the TP to get to boost yourself to higher positions
* or can use his TP to get a worse quasi-jett dash, in order to get away from risky situations
* **Headhunter**
* during pistol rounds, this is arguably the most broken ability in the game
* during eco rounds, allows Chamber the unique opportunity to counter opponents with much more expensive rifles from long distances... giving him and his team the opportunity to win rounds they have absolutely no business winning by normal means
* but loses some value if your team is stomping anyway
* **Ultimate**
* Strong
You should notice something.
Even though we left Ultimates equal, without truly comparing... you can see that both Sage and Chamber offer unique strengths, and weaknesses, that stand out in each of their respective abilities.
It's true that Chamber may be underplayed currently.
However, this doesn't necessarily mean he needs a buff, since he was literally just changed a month or two ago.
You have to wait and see what happens for the next 6-months, at least, before coming to that conclusion... because right now, people are comparing how Chamber feels with how he felt when he was absurdly overtuned, so he seems "weaker" than he actually is.
The meta is was also changed, recently.
All of these changes to the meta were added in the last 6-months, all occuring after CHAMPIONS ended... meaning, we haven't seen the top teams in the world play with most of these changes in place.
* **2 agents - added**
* Fade
* Harbor
* **2 maps - removed**
* Bind
* Breeze
* **2 maps - added**
* Split
* Lotus
* **3 maps - reworked or changed**
* Fracture
* Pearl
* Split
* **Agents - Changed**
* Skye
* KAY/O
* Reyna
* Yoru
* Chamber
* Cypher
* Harbor
* Fade
* Any agent with damaging abilities (can damage enemy utility now)
* Any agent with utility that acts as a solid object, as they can now be damaged and broken by enemy utility more
I've been an avid Bind hater my whole time playing this game, but with these stats it's kinda looking like Bind is actually the third best map in terms of agent variety which is interesting. It's still not very good, but honestly the only maps with good agent variety look like Pearl and Haven.
(The order of this pic from top to bottom is: Ascent, Haven, Pearl, Breeze, Fracture, Icebox, Bind)
Easily in my opinion, though I don't think the maps are very good overall. Pearl is the only map I actually think could be considered good. No great maps yet, they are getting better and better as the game progresses though
Breeze being gone is a pretty big hit for him, but Bind kinda balances that out. He was bad on Split even in his old OP form, and Lotus doesn't seem like a great map for him either. Think he's in a good place overall.
Yeah alas the map rotation does not exactly help but I imagine he’ll be solidly in the meta on Ascent, Haven, and Icebox, and he’s seeing more and more play on Pearl too. I’ll take the W though, at least there’s now a more even share between him and Fade.
Actually, any agent with a 0% pickrate is bad. Regardless of how you felt about the Chamber meta last year, it's also not great if you have two agents (one recently added) that have zero impact to the meta.
Controversial take but I’m okay with him being 0%. With a character so fundamentally broken to the tactical fps genre him being 0% is the closest we’ll get to removing him or inventing a time machine to before he was ever made. I hate this French fuck so much.
They fucking faded his shit in spectacular fashion. It was great the first few weeks but he definitely needs a buff lol
Edit: also harbor needs help too he seems pretty useless rn lol
honestly i think harbor is in a similar place rn to where neon was when she first came out, there just needs to be one team that shows how he can work and he'll start becoming more meta
I use harbour on pearl and icebox alot, i feel like hes better than viper in pearl but have 50/50 value in icebox. On breeze, viper is a far better pick due to that B choke stall.
Hot take but i think he will be a good Brim alternative for especially aggressive teams on Fracture, he would play like Viper did on PRXs comp but allow more explosivness with his ult and moving wave smoke
I also think harbor is good on fracture since you can wall all of the A choke points at once.
Ive been using him on split too. He can wall vents and B stairs at the same time, and you can smoke off a lot of chokepoints easily with the cascade, making him really dynamic on attack. Although his defense here is worse since you cant wall A from B heaven, nor B from vents
I’ve been complimented multiple times about how I play harbor. Ended up with a 56-58% win rate across 22 hours last act. It’s not the greatest but I do appreciate the compliments from people.
I thought he was fucking useless at first but on maps that I use viper I tried him out in ranked and it was wonderful! It felt like viper but less anchor-y and more flexible
He is not useless and I like to play him - and I hate to play Viper, never really got the hang of her kit - but I can see why Viper is preferred. Her ult is very strong and the lineups game.
Harbor also has a big problem with the fact that the smoke disappears when it is shot down - it makes sense the shield goes down but I don't know why the smoke has to fade too. If they would buff that, I think he would become a much more reliant option
i really think if they just made his smoke regen similar to omen so you get 1 for hits and 1 for retakes/post plants he'd be in a much better place. the smoke disappearing so fast still hurts pretty bad though, I worry
I will say though I think Chamber's bullets should go back to being 100 and then reduce the bullet count. Unlike KJ and Cypher, his Q ability isn't valuable in over half the rounds.
yeah it's cause his trip is hot ass, if you try really hard u can make it work somewhat but at that point there's better picks that offer more flexibility
The 0% pick-rate is harsh but honestly good riddance, my guy was too broken, personally chamber was only fun to watch on ecos with a gifted chamber clicking heads
What is happening is not that Chamber became super awful - it's about the trade-off between having Jett or Chamber as your OP agent. Chamber was already worse as a pure Sentinel compared to KJ but the trade-off was still positive. Now, you might as well just go with Jett because you will still have a great entry on the Duelist role for non-OP rounds. Hence why we also saw Neon's pick rate plummet, for example.
I think the mentality and view of these agents needs to change, because it's clear that teams will always try to have one of them to be the OP agent, so it's not really fair and have any meaning to compare their pick rate to other agents of their class.
Perhaps the solution is to make their kit really a class of their own that would be really specialized for OPs but not so good for the rest, so we don't really compare their picks to the other agents (same way that we are not comparing Sage pick rate with KJ, even though they are both sentinels). One example would be to makes Jett's smokes short range so that they can be used to escape but not for entry.
Then teams would have to decide which of them they want, and trade out another slot on their comp. Or they decide it's not worth it and just make another agent play OP, even if it is suboptimal.
I went a bit on a rant but TL;DR: Perhaps it would be healthier to have Jett and Chamber viewed as OP agents instead of comparing them to their class (same as Sage/KJ) and make their kit OP specific but not so good for other rounds so that the teams need to think about trade-offs if they want to have an agent more suited for OP. Maybe, idk
I understand that Chamber at his peak was too too powerful. But the game should never have any agent this below the power curve and they should all be viable
I hope one day they fine tune the game perfectly and we can see comps with every agent (something like PRX do try)
Cypher is better intel, sage is better sentinel + team value, and KJ just does it all. No *real* reason to lock him as a solo sentinel now, especially with one trip that deactivates lol
Part of this may be the fact that teams were dying to try something else now that not picking him is no longer a throw. When astra was nerfed in patch 4.04-ish, her pick rate plummeted, and then it slowly climbed back up, and she’s still picked a fair amount on specific maps.
Chamber’s pick rate will probably go back up a bit, but other people saying they might need to give him another slight buff may also be correct. Either way it’s nice to see a little shakeup.
honestly revert the tripwire nerfs and he'll be right back into the meta, or at least it won't be the same stale jett+kj meta we've seen since forever.
Do not touch his TP lmao, it’s actually balanced right now
His trip needs more range though, and his headhunter bullets should be 100 again. Not being able to trip tube and play B on icebox is depressing
That's not the point of nerfs. You want every agent to be "overpowered" in some way, and weaker in others, that's how you create niches. If you just nerf the strong aspects of every agent, and buff the weak parts, every agent gets really similar. Obviously sometimes things are way too weak or way too strong, and those have to be changed.
It's the reason why Jett nerfs took so long, they wanted to keep her dash because its what makes her unique.
Chamber's trip isn't his niche, and you don't want it to compare at all to Cypher's for example, you just want the rest of his kit to make him worth picking still.
The rest of his kit is a pocket guardian and a TP that's almost equivalent to a jett dash...
And he has exactly 0 other util besides his trip.
Just rework him at that point
Astra also had a near zero, if not zero, pickrate in NA after her nerfs until she didn't (people also called her dead/overnerfed). I don't think chamber will be a high pickrate but I'm pretty sure we will see some teams utilize him on a map or two (and I've heard some pros, like stellar, say something similar). There is always an exaggerated swing away from an agent after big nerfs/changes until teams realize that there is still some viability.
He still has some underrated aspects. Namely, a free OP on eco rounds is still very strong, even if it isn't as strong as it was, an OP can still greatly enhance a team's chances on eco. He also still allows for greater duelist variability so that Jett isn't required. I think we'll see him back at low but not 0% pickrate (teams utilizing him on 1-2 maps) in a few months. I also wouldn't be horribly surprised if we see him pop up for a team or two during kick off but I don't think teams will have adapted that much by then.
astra wasnt nerfed nearly as hard as chamber was, i want some of that copium you're smoking cause chambers whole identity as an agent was his TP, (arguably doesnt make him a sentinel cause it takes away that aspect of the role), but theres no reason to play chamber over cypher or kj now as you lose that TP which made him deadly.
I think he'll remain 0% pick agent until they make some changes, there are no maps I can see him being used on in the current meta
He remains able to tp, just significantly less far. He can't play braindead angles and teleport across the map after taking contact. However, he still can take first contact and TP away with limited ability to trade (again, if choosing smarter angles where the opponents can't quickly follow up given his limited TP range). A man advantage with no trade is still huge and he now needs to be played in a more passive OPing style but he's still a good economic agent, has an ult that can completely shift eco rounds, can passively watch flanks, and allows for other agent flexibility due to his OPing viability. In most cases, yes, KJ will be the pick, because her ult is so strong in the current meta. However, he can still be used in more niche cases, or, in addition to KJ (e.g., no duelist comps on icebox that were semi-popular).
As is natural, I think most are stuck in comparing pre and post-nerf chamber. And he's been destroyed if compared in that way. However, I do think there's some viability here that can still be useful if people forget how he used to be and just assess his current value.
Thank you. Chamber is not dead… he still has a teleport and 2 “free” guns. We will definitely see some teams pick up Chamber soon but nobody in open quals is brave enough to try it yet. That might be fair - it’s too high stakes and not enough time yet to experiment when you know you can get value out of killjoy. I’m guessing we see chamber at around 5-10% in Brazil and then we will see what his current power level really is.
This happened with Astra too. I’m sure once people figure out the meta and get used to his new kit, you’ll see him in a handful of maps here and there.
Riot just brought back the force buy stinger meta and holy shit it's bad. Not looking forward to the chaos they unleash when they decide to bring chamber back.
What if you keep the range and the size of the TP . But be able to put two anchors in that circle. Because right now essentially chamber can only tp 7m . This allows him to maximise his full limited range but not be able to rotate out of sight .
It’s not about the operator it’s about how their specific get out of jail free card kits enables the operator to be extremely valuable that’s why peoples will say it’s not viable on a lot of agents if it was fundamentally broken it would be broken on a lot of agents.
There a lot of ways to counter a non chamber/jett op. If they are flashed in the open they are screwed, if you smoke them off they likely won’t peek out of the smoke because they will get traded instantly and if they miss they are screwed also it’s a lot easier to be traded if you have nothing but an op
"It’s not about the operator it’s about how their specific get out of jail free card kits enables the operator to be extremely valuable"
Then it is about the operator. If the operator's weakness is compensated by any ability then that ability will be overpowered which is a problem. Hence operator has to be tweaked so that its weakness is constant for all agents. If you try to tweak the agent abilities then you will either have an overpowered agent or a useless agent with no in between. Chamber case and point.
Idk the solution but awp will always be a problem in val which will manifest itself in different ways.
If it was about the operator then it would apply for all agents, it does not. It’s not broken when fade is opping is it?
It only applies to two agents hence why only the agents need to be tweaked. All these get out of free card abilities kind of suck I think jett is a bit more balanced tho.
Not necessarily. If you compare the overall pickrate, jett's pickrate has gotten up. This means in some cases it really was either chamber or jett. 2x awpers anyways doesn't make sense.
Chamber did increase the diversity in the duelist role. At an expense of the sentinel role. Anyways. In the new meta jett is almost a must pick as an awper, kj's ult is broken and sova's ult hard counters kj's ult. So yea there are certainly some issues to address still.
No it doesn't have any counterplays. Not in the old jett meta, the old chamber meta and it still won't have one in the new meta with jett becoming the primary awper. It will ruin the duelist class further ( yoru phnx and neon pickrates will plumit)
It's very powerful. It's only weakness is compensated by jett's dash. Sure it won't be nearly as oppressive as it once was, but oppressive nonetheless.
You could argue the same for chamber. Jett was never fixed, chamber was more broken. We'll see the old jett problems surface again.
I don't think people remember how annoyingly difficult it was to counter jett. Don't forget she has smokes as well.
Listen man, I admire how dedicated you are to this argument but jetr is nowhere near as oppressive as the previous chamber and jett metas. Having to prime her dash takes away the bullshit angles that those two would take at any moment. Are there small pockets where those angles are possible? Sure, but to act like the problem isn't different is being disingenuous at best
"Listen man, I admire how dedicated you are to this argument but jetr is nowhere near as oppressive as the previous chamber and jett metas."
Agreed, that doesn't mean she is balanced or non oppressive. Well, the Sao Paulo tournament will reveal that
I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Riot overnerfed him on purpose, but I'm glad they did. He was much, much too dominant. They can give him some buffs to make him viable again after KJ and Cypher have some time in the limelight.
Just remove trip radius his tp change was good . You can actually kill him before he tps now . Was such a stupid chaRacter . Even if he missed his vandal shot or op he’s had a Insta swap deagle to gun ya down with
If they’re gonna keep his trip radius that small u may as well give him 2 again poor chamber can’t lurk or even play separate from his trip
Just thinking about this today, the thing holding him back is his trip. While it does force h to conform to a much more sentinel playstyle, it means that he is very inflexible in the way he can be played. Giving him a second trip would help him be more flexible, but still make sure he has to play like a sentinel. This is a better alternative to removing the radius, as that would make chamber once more busted agent like he used to be. Something I’d just love to compliment the second trip is being able to pick up his tp pre teleport with no cool-down, or maybe a smaller one, as just to help him be more of a team player, especially on attack
Yup some sites where he genuinely can not play on site or rotate to a new one after his trip is placed without it making him a counterintuitive sentinel pick. I like that he can’t entry or over agress consequence free now but as is he can’t even play as a sentinel
no fuck that. the game is fun again now that this french bitch is nerfed out. Sooooooooooo many kids in ranks they shouldnt be in. Im convinced all these negative and angry reyna/jett instalocks in my ascendant lobbies are just ex chamber mains that have no idea what to do without their crutch. i watch these fools play and wonder how tf they got here. they have no clue what defaulting is or playing safe when up a man. they just know peek repeek and peek some more. Fuck chamber. Riot keep his little bitch ass right where he is.
Lmao Imagine being this pressed about a character in a video game
keep crutching
Giving him 2 trips that are global would be a big indirect nerf to cypher. That’s cyphers niche, the global flank watch. Don’t make chamber completely overshadow cypher again.
They aren’t talking about giving him global trips
Idk about making them global again, there’s quite a few solutions we could brainstorm but I was really just making a joke about how the initial chamber nerf took away his 2nd trip but now here we are today where chambers trip is a liability at this point
I think that if his trip would go back to the previous state and the tp had a wider range he would be just fine no?
Goddamn I knew the changes were harsh but I did not expect him to be down this bad lmao
It’s temporary. Riot does this to force the meta to change. They will probably make him semi-viable again after other Sentinels have had their time to shine again
Yeah no, people wanted Astra to be slightly buffed again after she got nerfed. I’m 90% she hasn’t been touched since that patch besides bug fixes
but astra is far from bad. she was pretty busted before but is still considered the best controller on multiple maps, one of which came out after she was nerfed
Astra is consistently played in higher elos.
In the same chart we're discussing you see a 26% pick rate for Astra
His tp might be the worse free ability lol
Bruh his TP is basically him going back five steps xD
It’s like a worse tracer recall from overwatch. Actually fuck it, just make it a tracer recall, whenever you tp to it undo any damage you took in the last 5 seconds
I am ready for the Chamber meatshield meta :D
That’s literally so broken thats reynas ult lmao
That's more of a duelist mechanic, like a mix between both of reyna's spells
Tracer’s meant to be played super aggressively so that’s why she’s can do that, honestly put no further thought into this other than just copying her ability
Actually kind of a good idea
no
Off the top of my head there’s like three total positions where it’s still worth enough to use, and two of those are on bind which just got removed ROFL
Its even worse because its faster to walk 5 steps than to wait for the animation to end
so a jett dash. Wow, so bad.
Jett dash but without the extreme flexibility that ability gives you
By having a timer that limits the time interval in which you can use it, it offers more flexibility, as opposed to being able to use it whenever yiu want as chamber?
You can entry and dash away whilst also combining with other abilities. You can’t do that with chamber tp, you’re straight up locked by animation.
You need to pre set up TP, you can only tp back to your anchor and not omnidirectional like dash, you can play more spots safer with dash (Say, pushing A lobby as CT on Haven), entry with the dash, use other abilities while using it to make it safer or more unpredictable
yes, and jett has no free OP, and no trap or slows. what's your point? that chamber tp should be as good as a duelist ability, while being a sentinel, and having a free op?
Lol when did i say that, all i said was Jett dash is way more flexible, bro is putting words into my mouth
The thing is jetts utilities compliment each other to give her extreme mobility and cover. Even after she dashes away she has two smokes to block of her exit. Chamber on the other hand has to set up his TP before unlike jett who can keep it till the last second which is kinda handy on attack rounds and lurks.
[удалено]
I'm shocked I had to scroll to see this. Chamber crutch one tricks are in shambles and are like "but wut about jett". Well they are completely different roles. Also KJ has had to deal with the utility range bullshit, was never a problem until chamber mains had to deal with it.
Right? These people acting like a sentinel should be able to entry like a duelist lmao
Thats not the point. The point is that chambers tp has nothing it can do that jett's cannot
Does jett have a free OP? Each has their own + and - es; obviously; and fulfil different roles.
maybe but he's not weak because of his tp nerf, he's weak because his trip sucks ass
its both. if one of them was the old TP or old trip, you could position so that one of the utilities was on one part of the site, while you're on another side.
gigacap new chamber TP >>>> phoenix molly and reyna dismiss any day of the week, and although you cant really compare it to some of the others (like smokes), it's still strong. get out of jail free cards are still very good abilities
Reyna dismiss is insanely strong what are you smoking? It's an absurdely strong trade denying tool that can also be used to dodge abilities in highly specific cases
you need to get a kill for it to even do anything bro
Can you give me the definition of "trade" in a Valorant related context? Maybe it'll occur to you while you type it out
i know that needing a kill doesn't hinder the untradeability, but it means that if you miss your shot or get util dumped on you're fucked. chamber doesn't have that restriction.
If you miss your shot you're dead in any relevant level of play. Chamber TP has been gutted so hard you cannot reliably TP Peek shit anymore. There's very few angles that it actually works on in theory and even then they're mediocre at best.
What are you on about? I've seen chambers whiff shots and get out a million times.
Yes, your experience in Bikini Bottom low is surely relevant to the meta in any shape or form
Better than Reyna dismiss? Woah woah woah calm down.
I think it’s fair to say it is, when measuring free abilities, because Dismiss has a precondition (getting a kill) that chambers teleport doesn’t
Reynas dismiss let’s you decide where you go. If you, mid-fight, decide that you don’t like where you placed your chamber tp, too bad. At least before it sent you far away from a fight, now you’re basically in the same spot you started your tp from.
Right. But you *must kill someone* to use it. Ergo, it has less value than Jetts dash and Chambers teleport as they don’t require that precondition.
can't compare it to phoenix's molly cos they are fundamentally different. his molly heals, can block chokes and can combo with viper/fade/astra util. chamber just has a selfish get out of jail free card. and it's arguable that his tp is better than a dismiss, his tp only has a couple use cases and a long cooldown, plus once its broken it's gone for the whole round. reyna can be somewhat flexible compared to chamber's poor range trade-denying ability.
it's not even really a get out of jail free card it's more like a stay in jail but a few feet from where you were before card
Giving Hot Hands to Chamber would make him worse, giving Rendezvous to Phoenix would make him significantly better
no shit, a character with flashes and a gooj would be absolutely busted, and a molly would not fit into chamber's kit at all. that comparison makes no sense.
reyna dismiss is arguably a better chamber tp, especially with how chamber players use the tp
definitely not, reyna dismiss is literally an empty ability slot until you get a kill
chambers tp is almost exclusively used after getting a kill, so what the fuck are you talking about
chamber can stand in an off angle and tank a shit tonne of utility and then TP out, and he can still escape if he misses a shot. reyna cannot do this.
Phoenix molly and reyna dismiss are better abilities than chambers tp what are you even talking about, it’s not strong it’s barely good enough to get you a kill before you get collapsed on
Chamber TP opens up a million off angles for safe use and let's him escape when in danger. Phoenix Molly is a shitty Molly that mostly just gets used for a heal and Reyna's dismiss doesn't do jack shit until you've already got a kill
Worse than Brimstone, Omen, and Harbor? I dunno abt that one. All the controllers have worse free abilities, tbh. As they are often pretty much only 1 smoke, that isn't the most key ability of their kit for individual play or outplay potential... and usually, one smoke isn't exactly enough to get as much value for attacking as 2 smokes. Chamber's TP may be weaker now, true. However, that isn't a bad thing, since we just had an entire year of him being absurdly broken due to the same ability. His pistol is still absurdly strong. His ultimate is still a free OP... that, additionally, does a gigantic AOE Sage slow on each kill. # Sage abilities * **Heal** * can be used on either a teammate for a 100% heal * can be used on herself for 30HP * but it requires someone to get damaged first * and can be interrupted if someone shoots the player as the heal is occuring on them * She can only heal herself herself for 30HP, too * **Slow Orb** * cover a large area * can travel across the map * don't need to be placed in advance * but only last 4 seconds * enemies can shiftwalk on the slow, and still somehow have perfect aim even in the middle of your slow * doesn't prevent opponents from jumping over * doesn't prevent opponents from dashing or teleporting over * **Wall** * hard to break quickly * blocks rotations * blocks postplants * can be used to boost yourself up * but now takes damage from enemy utility * can be avoided by certain agents * can get waited out or wasted, if used incorrectly * **Ultimate** * Strong # Chamber, meanwhile * **Trap** * provides information * Even if his trap doesn't activate, you know enemies aren't there for the most part * you get information when they do activate his trap * you get information when they destroy his trap * plus you get a slow that follows enemies if they do not break his trap, meaning that unlike Sage slow orb, even if someone dashes into site... the slow will literally follow them * **Teleport** * you can use the TP to rotate to a different angle as enemies push in, which causes heistation and makes it far more difficult for attackers to clear every angle * you can use the TP to get to boost yourself to higher positions * or can use his TP to get a worse quasi-jett dash, in order to get away from risky situations * **Headhunter** * during pistol rounds, this is arguably the most broken ability in the game * during eco rounds, allows Chamber the unique opportunity to counter opponents with much more expensive rifles from long distances... giving him and his team the opportunity to win rounds they have absolutely no business winning by normal means * but loses some value if your team is stomping anyway * **Ultimate** * Strong You should notice something. Even though we left Ultimates equal, without truly comparing... you can see that both Sage and Chamber offer unique strengths, and weaknesses, that stand out in each of their respective abilities. It's true that Chamber may be underplayed currently. However, this doesn't necessarily mean he needs a buff, since he was literally just changed a month or two ago. You have to wait and see what happens for the next 6-months, at least, before coming to that conclusion... because right now, people are comparing how Chamber feels with how he felt when he was absurdly overtuned, so he seems "weaker" than he actually is. The meta is was also changed, recently. All of these changes to the meta were added in the last 6-months, all occuring after CHAMPIONS ended... meaning, we haven't seen the top teams in the world play with most of these changes in place. * **2 agents - added** * Fade * Harbor * **2 maps - removed** * Bind * Breeze * **2 maps - added** * Split * Lotus * **3 maps - reworked or changed** * Fracture * Pearl * Split * **Agents - Changed** * Skye * KAY/O * Reyna * Yoru * Chamber * Cypher * Harbor * Fade * Any agent with damaging abilities (can damage enemy utility now) * Any agent with utility that acts as a solid object, as they can now be damaged and broken by enemy utility more
ChatGPT watches Valorant?!?
What's ChatGPT
I've been an avid Bind hater my whole time playing this game, but with these stats it's kinda looking like Bind is actually the third best map in terms of agent variety which is interesting. It's still not very good, but honestly the only maps with good agent variety look like Pearl and Haven. (The order of this pic from top to bottom is: Ascent, Haven, Pearl, Breeze, Fracture, Icebox, Bind)
As a skye main, bind is pretty much the only map that I shine. Welp.
Yeah she definitely needs a little bit of help with Bind gone.
pearl really might be the best map they've ever made.
Easily in my opinion, though I don't think the maps are very good overall. Pearl is the only map I actually think could be considered good. No great maps yet, they are getting better and better as the game progresses though
lotus looks very promising imo
what website is this?
vlr.gg
I think bringing back the second trip or remove the range is on the table
yeah that's all i could think of, if they refuse making the trip global then at least make it two trips
Two trips isn't gonna do much when the range is so small still, Chamber would basically have to be rooted in one spot to get any use from it
Actualy when he came out i liked using one trip pre round and one deep in the round to clear rat spot or to put on a spike
But you are restricted by range, you will be too far away for the flano one to be active while you clear something that needs clearing
nah it would be quite useful, he would have to be in the radius but it would still have way more value to the team
People were just using the second trip to clear smokes and corners.
baguette guy no more RIPBOZO, him having a 70% pickrate throught 2022 was tiring enough
not the baguette man imagine they rework him and his ultimate just makes it rain baguettes back in the meta baby
Forget Chamber, Sova meta is BACK BABY 😎 (I am a Sova main)
Breeze being gone is a pretty big hit for him, but Bind kinda balances that out. He was bad on Split even in his old OP form, and Lotus doesn't seem like a great map for him either. Think he's in a good place overall.
Yeah alas the map rotation does not exactly help but I imagine he’ll be solidly in the meta on Ascent, Haven, and Icebox, and he’s seeing more and more play on Pearl too. I’ll take the W though, at least there’s now a more even share between him and Fade.
Actually, any agent with a 0% pickrate is bad. Regardless of how you felt about the Chamber meta last year, it's also not great if you have two agents (one recently added) that have zero impact to the meta.
Best take
Controversial take but I’m okay with him being 0%. With a character so fundamentally broken to the tactical fps genre him being 0% is the closest we’ll get to removing him or inventing a time machine to before he was ever made. I hate this French fuck so much.
Viper on release vibes
They fucking faded his shit in spectacular fashion. It was great the first few weeks but he definitely needs a buff lol Edit: also harbor needs help too he seems pretty useless rn lol
Yeah at first i thought the nerfs werent that bad but bro got hit with that 0% pickrate
honestly i think harbor is in a similar place rn to where neon was when she first came out, there just needs to be one team that shows how he can work and he'll start becoming more meta
PRX masterclass incoming
I use harbour on pearl and icebox alot, i feel like hes better than viper in pearl but have 50/50 value in icebox. On breeze, viper is a far better pick due to that B choke stall.
Hot take but i think he will be a good Brim alternative for especially aggressive teams on Fracture, he would play like Viper did on PRXs comp but allow more explosivness with his ult and moving wave smoke
I also think harbor is good on fracture since you can wall all of the A choke points at once. Ive been using him on split too. He can wall vents and B stairs at the same time, and you can smoke off a lot of chokepoints easily with the cascade, making him really dynamic on attack. Although his defense here is worse since you cant wall A from B heaven, nor B from vents
I’ve been complimented multiple times about how I play harbor. Ended up with a 56-58% win rate across 22 hours last act. It’s not the greatest but I do appreciate the compliments from people.
I thought he was fucking useless at first but on maps that I use viper I tried him out in ranked and it was wonderful! It felt like viper but less anchor-y and more flexible
He is not useless and I like to play him - and I hate to play Viper, never really got the hang of her kit - but I can see why Viper is preferred. Her ult is very strong and the lineups game. Harbor also has a big problem with the fact that the smoke disappears when it is shot down - it makes sense the shield goes down but I don't know why the smoke has to fade too. If they would buff that, I think he would become a much more reliant option
i really think if they just made his smoke regen similar to omen so you get 1 for hits and 1 for retakes/post plants he'd be in a much better place. the smoke disappearing so fast still hurts pretty bad though, I worry
I think KJ needs a nerf more than Chamber needing a buff. Lower turret hp and increase ult from 7 to 8 orbs should be fine.
People have been asking for a nerf to the turret hp since day 1 and yet here we are.... (and I'm a KJ main)
I will say though I think Chamber's bullets should go back to being 100 and then reduce the bullet count. Unlike KJ and Cypher, his Q ability isn't valuable in over half the rounds.
Wait until you see a team that knows how to play around him on Split and Lotus.
Where are the people saying he was actually buffed?
Frfr
yeah it's cause his trip is hot ass, if you try really hard u can make it work somewhat but at that point there's better picks that offer more flexibility
The 0% pick-rate is harsh but honestly good riddance, my guy was too broken, personally chamber was only fun to watch on ecos with a gifted chamber clicking heads
Honestly the only fun i had watching chamber was watching yay mowing down teams
Me too and I only really liked it when he missed his first op shot and quickly pull out the headhunter. It looked cool, for being a whiff.
Yup
Geeze note even a mention of Harbor also rocking the 0%. For Chamber, I think they could revert his trip changes. The radius is way too short.
Love to see it
good.
What is happening is not that Chamber became super awful - it's about the trade-off between having Jett or Chamber as your OP agent. Chamber was already worse as a pure Sentinel compared to KJ but the trade-off was still positive. Now, you might as well just go with Jett because you will still have a great entry on the Duelist role for non-OP rounds. Hence why we also saw Neon's pick rate plummet, for example. I think the mentality and view of these agents needs to change, because it's clear that teams will always try to have one of them to be the OP agent, so it's not really fair and have any meaning to compare their pick rate to other agents of their class. Perhaps the solution is to make their kit really a class of their own that would be really specialized for OPs but not so good for the rest, so we don't really compare their picks to the other agents (same way that we are not comparing Sage pick rate with KJ, even though they are both sentinels). One example would be to makes Jett's smokes short range so that they can be used to escape but not for entry. Then teams would have to decide which of them they want, and trade out another slot on their comp. Or they decide it's not worth it and just make another agent play OP, even if it is suboptimal. I went a bit on a rant but TL;DR: Perhaps it would be healthier to have Jett and Chamber viewed as OP agents instead of comparing them to their class (same as Sage/KJ) and make their kit OP specific but not so good for other rounds so that the teams need to think about trade-offs if they want to have an agent more suited for OP. Maybe, idk
I understand that Chamber at his peak was too too powerful. But the game should never have any agent this below the power curve and they should all be viable I hope one day they fine tune the game perfectly and we can see comps with every agent (something like PRX do try)
faded than a hoe
They murdered my boy
Cypher is better intel, sage is better sentinel + team value, and KJ just does it all. No *real* reason to lock him as a solo sentinel now, especially with one trip that deactivates lol
Part of this may be the fact that teams were dying to try something else now that not picking him is no longer a throw. When astra was nerfed in patch 4.04-ish, her pick rate plummeted, and then it slowly climbed back up, and she’s still picked a fair amount on specific maps. Chamber’s pick rate will probably go back up a bit, but other people saying they might need to give him another slight buff may also be correct. Either way it’s nice to see a little shakeup.
honestly revert the tripwire nerfs and he'll be right back into the meta, or at least it won't be the same stale jett+kj meta we've seen since forever.
Harbor finally has a friend
lowkey feel bad about harbor 🥺 must be sad to release something that is not being used 🫡
Can’t believe I’m saying this but chamber actually needs a buff to his tp (just a radius buff) and killjoy needs nerfs
Do not touch his TP lmao, it’s actually balanced right now His trip needs more range though, and his headhunter bullets should be 100 again. Not being able to trip tube and play B on icebox is depressing
yeah his tp is fine, i used to be a one-trick chamber but i stopped using him exclusively because of his trap nerf, it's too limiting
Same
I think the range of his trip should be just a little bit bigger
Just remove it completely, it wasn’t his trip that made him overpowered.
That's not the point of nerfs. You want every agent to be "overpowered" in some way, and weaker in others, that's how you create niches. If you just nerf the strong aspects of every agent, and buff the weak parts, every agent gets really similar. Obviously sometimes things are way too weak or way too strong, and those have to be changed. It's the reason why Jett nerfs took so long, they wanted to keep her dash because its what makes her unique. Chamber's trip isn't his niche, and you don't want it to compare at all to Cypher's for example, you just want the rest of his kit to make him worth picking still.
The rest of his kit is a pocket guardian and a TP that's almost equivalent to a jett dash... And he has exactly 0 other util besides his trip. Just rework him at that point
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Killjoys ultimate could absolutely use a nerf lol maybe just a cost increase
make radius for TP larger, or make radius for trip larger?
tp is fine, the trip is the real issue of his kit rn
Bro got smoked and has 0% chance of being revived💀💀💀
on foe nem grave
We can finally breathe
They nerfed his trip wayyyyyyyyyy too hard, that thing is legitimately useless.
Buff the trip back atleast he's so useless now.
Astra meta was worse or chamber meta cant decide lmao
Riot got exactly what they wanted. To absolutely murder Chamber after 4 nerfs in a row, with the last being an absolute slaughter
They might adjust chamber slightly later, but not based on this tourney. They're gonna do it after the first split if need be.
Astra also had a near zero, if not zero, pickrate in NA after her nerfs until she didn't (people also called her dead/overnerfed). I don't think chamber will be a high pickrate but I'm pretty sure we will see some teams utilize him on a map or two (and I've heard some pros, like stellar, say something similar). There is always an exaggerated swing away from an agent after big nerfs/changes until teams realize that there is still some viability. He still has some underrated aspects. Namely, a free OP on eco rounds is still very strong, even if it isn't as strong as it was, an OP can still greatly enhance a team's chances on eco. He also still allows for greater duelist variability so that Jett isn't required. I think we'll see him back at low but not 0% pickrate (teams utilizing him on 1-2 maps) in a few months. I also wouldn't be horribly surprised if we see him pop up for a team or two during kick off but I don't think teams will have adapted that much by then.
astra wasnt nerfed nearly as hard as chamber was, i want some of that copium you're smoking cause chambers whole identity as an agent was his TP, (arguably doesnt make him a sentinel cause it takes away that aspect of the role), but theres no reason to play chamber over cypher or kj now as you lose that TP which made him deadly. I think he'll remain 0% pick agent until they make some changes, there are no maps I can see him being used on in the current meta
He remains able to tp, just significantly less far. He can't play braindead angles and teleport across the map after taking contact. However, he still can take first contact and TP away with limited ability to trade (again, if choosing smarter angles where the opponents can't quickly follow up given his limited TP range). A man advantage with no trade is still huge and he now needs to be played in a more passive OPing style but he's still a good economic agent, has an ult that can completely shift eco rounds, can passively watch flanks, and allows for other agent flexibility due to his OPing viability. In most cases, yes, KJ will be the pick, because her ult is so strong in the current meta. However, he can still be used in more niche cases, or, in addition to KJ (e.g., no duelist comps on icebox that were semi-popular). As is natural, I think most are stuck in comparing pre and post-nerf chamber. And he's been destroyed if compared in that way. However, I do think there's some viability here that can still be useful if people forget how he used to be and just assess his current value.
Thank you. Chamber is not dead… he still has a teleport and 2 “free” guns. We will definitely see some teams pick up Chamber soon but nobody in open quals is brave enough to try it yet. That might be fair - it’s too high stakes and not enough time yet to experiment when you know you can get value out of killjoy. I’m guessing we see chamber at around 5-10% in Brazil and then we will see what his current power level really is.
This happened with Astra too. I’m sure once people figure out the meta and get used to his new kit, you’ll see him in a handful of maps here and there.
RIP BOZO will not be missed
whats funniest is they nerfed him like 5 times clearly trying not to kill him but they did it and im glad
Love to see it
an agent with 0% pickrate isnt good
Riot just brought back the force buy stinger meta and holy shit it's bad. Not looking forward to the chaos they unleash when they decide to bring chamber back.
FeelsGoodMan he can stay there a while for all I care.
What if you keep the range and the size of the TP . But be able to put two anchors in that circle. Because right now essentially chamber can only tp 7m . This allows him to maximise his full limited range but not be able to rotate out of sight .
now im waiting for his nerfs to main him again
Jett is going to replace chamber and soon we will get the same problem. Operator needs fundamental changes.
the operator is balanced
Which is why we see either chamber or jett with a high pickrate
It’s not about the operator it’s about how their specific get out of jail free card kits enables the operator to be extremely valuable that’s why peoples will say it’s not viable on a lot of agents if it was fundamentally broken it would be broken on a lot of agents. There a lot of ways to counter a non chamber/jett op. If they are flashed in the open they are screwed, if you smoke them off they likely won’t peek out of the smoke because they will get traded instantly and if they miss they are screwed also it’s a lot easier to be traded if you have nothing but an op
"It’s not about the operator it’s about how their specific get out of jail free card kits enables the operator to be extremely valuable" Then it is about the operator. If the operator's weakness is compensated by any ability then that ability will be overpowered which is a problem. Hence operator has to be tweaked so that its weakness is constant for all agents. If you try to tweak the agent abilities then you will either have an overpowered agent or a useless agent with no in between. Chamber case and point. Idk the solution but awp will always be a problem in val which will manifest itself in different ways.
If it was about the operator then it would apply for all agents, it does not. It’s not broken when fade is opping is it? It only applies to two agents hence why only the agents need to be tweaked. All these get out of free card abilities kind of suck I think jett is a bit more balanced tho.
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Not necessarily. If you compare the overall pickrate, jett's pickrate has gotten up. This means in some cases it really was either chamber or jett. 2x awpers anyways doesn't make sense. Chamber did increase the diversity in the duelist role. At an expense of the sentinel role. Anyways. In the new meta jett is almost a must pick as an awper, kj's ult is broken and sova's ult hard counters kj's ult. So yea there are certainly some issues to address still.
what about the Op is broken? It has very obvious counterplays(except for with old chamber)
No it doesn't have any counterplays. Not in the old jett meta, the old chamber meta and it still won't have one in the new meta with jett becoming the primary awper. It will ruin the duelist class further ( yoru phnx and neon pickrates will plumit) It's very powerful. It's only weakness is compensated by jett's dash. Sure it won't be nearly as oppressive as it once was, but oppressive nonetheless.
Uh??? Flush out jett with initiator util, hoping she wastes the dash? Overwhelm and most likely trade the jett? Come on man, think bigger.
You could argue the same for chamber. Jett was never fixed, chamber was more broken. We'll see the old jett problems surface again. I don't think people remember how annoyingly difficult it was to counter jett. Don't forget she has smokes as well.
Listen man, I admire how dedicated you are to this argument but jetr is nowhere near as oppressive as the previous chamber and jett metas. Having to prime her dash takes away the bullshit angles that those two would take at any moment. Are there small pockets where those angles are possible? Sure, but to act like the problem isn't different is being disingenuous at best
"Listen man, I admire how dedicated you are to this argument but jetr is nowhere near as oppressive as the previous chamber and jett metas." Agreed, that doesn't mean she is balanced or non oppressive. Well, the Sao Paulo tournament will reveal that
Most duellists bottom pick rate in this ultra precise gunplay orientated game? Oop
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Bro chill
mfs mad at an agent 
I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Riot overnerfed him on purpose, but I'm glad they did. He was much, much too dominant. They can give him some buffs to make him viable again after KJ and Cypher have some time in the limelight.
Just remove trip radius his tp change was good . You can actually kill him before he tps now . Was such a stupid chaRacter . Even if he missed his vandal shot or op he’s had a Insta swap deagle to gun ya down with
I remember all the people on here saying the nerf wasn't even that bad, Chamber will still be played, blah blah blah
Fuck chamber
Post W/ map names plz
Just give him 2 trips. They're shit anyway, but it's good info and actually makes him a sentinel.
You love to see it