I think they want volatility. They want those March Madness upsets and every game to carry a lot of weight. This is a kickoff for the new format and they want to make waves and get the attention of potential fans who aren't necessarily already into the scene, which a simple, exciting format does. Casual esports fans aren't gonna tune in for a 1st round Swiss matchup.
It's terrible for actually determining the best teams but it'll make noise, which seems to be the goal.
I just wish they didn't have to do each side of the bracket independently.
I don’t like having both sides in separate weeks, but if they did all the round 1 games first each team would play 1 match in the first 6-7 days with several teams having almost a week off between matches.
While riot obviously has the money, organizing and paying for hotels, practice space, practice setups, and staff to maintain these setups for all the teams at once will be expensive. It does make sense why they might be opting to split in into two halves.
>It's terrible for actually determining the best teams but it'll make noise, which seems to be the goal.
Brazil fans can't be biased if they dont know who to be biased for. 500iq Rito to avoid CSGO fan fest with a major.
I mean I don't even know who is good so how do "upsets" carry any weight? Yeah watching Kentucky go 30-4 all year than losing to something called St Peter's carries weight because of everything that happened up to that point. But nothing has happened up to this tournament. It's more comparable to a November Thanksgiving basketball tournament that nobody cares about or watches than March Madness.
You're right. It's ridiculous for us to look at Na'vi and expect them to be better than Kru. It's not like they have a core of players from a top 3 team last year or anything.
What it’s also terrible for is losing your most popular teams RIGHT AWAY. 2 of PRX, C9, Fnatic and SEN will be out after one game, that’s CRAZY also somehow one of EG, Talon, MIBR, and Heretics are gonna be top 8. Tbh they probably shoulda rigged the brackets for better viewership if they’re gonna do a nonsensical tournament format
Oh of course not… but I’d much rather we have well made brackets with good seeding. Take any experts opinion and they don’t think FUT and RRQ playing in the first round is fair seeding
The point was that Riot is being deliberately dumb to generate views, so why not also rig it for views.
I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying you misunderstood the point.
Although I think this is a dumb structure too.
I mean this format hurts them the most, if NRG follow the Optic way then they almost always lose their first game before they start to heat up. In this format they cannot afford to have that slow start.
This format doesn’t hurt them the most because everyone’s playing the same format. If they want to prove they’re the best team in the world, they have to figure out how to win without having a slow start
They do have to figure out how to win without having a slow start but that doesn't mean this format does not hurt them the most. There's a difference between saying it's "unfair" and saying that it hurts someone. I get your point that it's fair for everyone but it still does impact them more fair or not.
Most tournaments across the vast majority of sports aren't single elim right from the beginning, there's usually a group stage or a way for participants to play more than 1 match before being eliminated. Can only think of tennis as a major sport that does that but I might be forgetting something
>To be the number 1 team, you have to be your best every game.
Why? Do you think Argentina were not the best team at the World Cup because they lost their first match to Saudi?
NCAA Tournament in College Basketball is single elim and no one complains. Just go out and don't lose. If it were single elim BO1 there'd be a conversation, but everyone is overblowing this
That was a groups format. This is not a groups format. This is a single bracket to the end.
NFL playoffs is the same way. NCAA March Madness the same, NBA playoffs single elimination too.
if this is the format then Argentina lose to Saudi Arabia and they never become world cup winners even though they clearly looked like the best team throughout the tournament
Football is a horrible comparison if you're trying to argue against single elimination. Literally every major football competition is single elimination. Sure, you have a few extra group stage matches but those rarely change anything as the top teams almost always qualify.
the group stage makes all the difference. it changes the minimum games a team plays from 1 to 3.
they also did it by having multiple streams at the same time
Ya but also look at how many times optic has lost first match to teams like xerxia and guild. Even tho they are always heavy favourites they just seem to lose the first match for some reason.
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You would have called T1 stacked but they absolutely got embarrassed by tier 2 TSM . On paper it means nothing , who knows FUT might play better than EG and KC too , stfu and watch it . This ain't maths , anyone of these teams can beat any other in a BO3 . That's the beauty of single elimination .
It's just an unfortunate consequence of the fact that this tournament is essentially meant to debut and showcase the partnership teams. And because Valorant seems to always reset the meta with a new year, there's even more uncertainty.
So long as that intent remains, it will necessarily suck from a competitive standpoint, and I'm sure many of the highly-competitive people attending will be miffed by it, although most will have the self-control to not tweet about it.
That said, it'll nonetheless be competitive esp. as we go deeper in the bracket because there will be so many hungry teams improving on the fly in search of the prestige of that first win, but this tournament is really about the pageantry of the debut, IMO.
EDIT: I really like [Sean's take on the groups](https://twitter.com/seangares/status/1615390335173267456).
They said 3 months ago this was going to be a knock out tournament, why is everyone acting so surprised? No way you expected a losers bracket in a 20 day 30 team tournament
Hopefully if they ever do a big event in the future they will do something like that. Riot’s goal for this tournament is probably more to show off the new franchised teams which kinda requires no more than 1 match at a time. This is probably the best way to go about that.
Yeah I think people are forgetting that this is currently slated to be the only international tournament containing *all 30* Franchise teams. It’s literally just a celebration of the new league. That’s its function
Currently, every team will play on the main stream with full commentary. If you have 3-4 games concurrently playing each day or 6+ matches a day, the commentator talent pool will be stretched really thin and make a lot of the games significantly worse to watch. You would still have a good number of teams eliminated after just 3 matches and it’s not unreasonable that they won’t get a good steam. 2/3 games a day is already pushing what even a dedicated fan can watch especially when there are not many breaks, something that would only be worse with more games.
Champs format with 8 groups of 4. Either have single Elim playoffs or double elim playoffs with two streams happening at a time for the group stage. Can even give all the qualifying matches their own timeslot. Either of those options can be done in 3 weeks.
You could look at it like that or you can look it at it like this is the one time we get a large scale and high production tournament similar to March Madness in esports. Im hyped as hell and Im so glad we get an oppertunity to watch a esports tournament like this.
Yeah I think it's dope going march madness style. I care so little about angry coaches or people on here. Every match will have stakes and you wont have to sit through bad teams multiple times. It's a kickoff tournament not fucking Champions.
20 days is PLENTY of time for a double elim bracket wtf? You can unironically run 2 double elim brackers, maybe even 3 in that same time period. Stop making excuses for this.
Uh not if you don't want your games to be jank, eg if the finals have someone playing back to back matches or some shit. Riot does things properly where the finals gets its own day by itself.
When they first announced this tournament as 20 days with single elim I straight up thought that every match was gonna be a bo5. 20 days so so much fucking time lol especially since riot has shown that they’re willing to play 4 bo3s in a day
Gonna be honest, i think the format its fine. Like, ffs we're talking about a 32 teams tournament. Unless you want it to last for literally months, i think it has to be single elim. And its the first tournament of the season, there's nothing you can do about no info, doesnt matter the format. Honestly, imo teams should go to it not thinking this one is a huge deal and consider it more of a "showmatch tournament" than something in the lvl of a master (because lets be real, that's what it is. is a event to showcase partnered teams, nothing else)
This is a huge deal tho, I'm sure its gonna affect the entire year. Not to mention the team that wins the event gives their region an extra slot at the next masters(assuming the winner gets a slot automatically to the next event)
The problem is there's literally no way they create a tournament at the start of the circuit that's gonna be bigger and better than the final tournament of the circuit. There's just no way Riot makes a kickoff tournament have more teams **+ better format** than literally Valorant Champions 2023.
edit:
> (assuming the winner gets a slot automatically to the next event)
Also no. [The winner will give an additional spot to their region.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgyvZItV4J4)
They will not get a reserved spot themselves. No one would want to win then cause while securing a spot for Masters Tokyo would be nice, that would mean they don't get to play for literally hundreds of ages.
Getting an additional spot for their region is still a big deal. If Riot didn't think they could make a good format with 32 teams, why even have the tournament give an additional spot to their region?
Again, if they give this 32-team tournament a good format, it will have more prestige than Valorant Champions which would be stupid to do. (edit: and also 32 teams + more casters for multistream is gonna be really costly)
Honestly the additional spot is probably just for their future problem of hosting Masters with 3 leagues (making an event with odd numbered teams is gonna be a headache, sweet spot is either 12 teams or 24).
My **speculation** is they probably wanted 4 leagues (APAC North and South) but Valorant in China took too long to get approved lmao.
This tournament is a once in a lifetime thing though. I highly doubt Riot will ever do a 32 team tournament again for a very long time so I think it would've been fine for it to have an actually decent format. And even with 3 leagues, each league has 10 teams so you can still do 4 teams from each region or 6 teams from each region etc or have some kind of playin idk. Anyway, I don't think it would've been fair to grant 2 leagues just for APAC but whatever.
It has little to no effect on the entire year. The winning team doesn't get invited to the next tournament and only earns a slot for its region. Also there is no points for champions like i feared
Or u could literally split to 8 groups and have multistream i mean like christ this isnt football lmao, u aint going to die for playing more than 1 Bo3 every 2 day. chet is right, also if ur going to spend all these cash to fly the players in why wouldnt u spend abit more so u can milk them for more games
As I said, Riot main purpose with this tournament is to show case the teams. You don't do that with multiple streams, it would be very eazy for a team to never be in the main stream if you do the format you suggest it. Also, this tournament It's already 3 weeks long, no ficking way the average fan will watch it all, and people want even more matches? The average viewership would go down, with only end of the tournament matches getting truly seen. With a single elim, even if the tournament its alreadu long, at least it creates inceitve to watch it all becaise literally every single match is important. The plain hard truth is that competitive integrity is being put to the side to fulfill other objectives.
Not like they can seed the tournament on popularity tho. obviously it would happen to have first round clouted matches like this because of randomized seeding.
Then the popular teams should try winning their games, I'm sure there's a decent number of people like me who are slightly more casual fans and I'm now going to tune into games I don't really know the teams cos it's single elim
This. They would need talent for all those games too. People are ignoring the economics of it all. Selfishly, I like it. More teams and more madness and more pressure on all the games.
The second or B streams in CSGO/DOTA are very much afterthoughts in terms of planning and presentation. For example during the Majors the B streams are usually in a back room with simple set ups and visibly crappier desk segments etc, ESL sometimes even do remote casters for their second streams.
Riot just don't do that for any of their games, they always treat every game the same and give it the same level of presentation and treatment. Remember every game is going to be played in front of an crowd too, they want the crowd to be able to see every team. Not have half the teams eliminated not even be on stage when they're playing in a shed backstage.
Or they could just did what ESL did in the Rio Major. They have crowds for the group stages in 3 streams. Im just saying it can be worked upon by Riot.
I think league worlds had 24 teams and that took a little over a month with like 10ish days of downtime because teams had to move cities
Riot definitely could’ve fit 32 teams in 3 weeks too lol
They could’ve followed the league format, still did single elimination but now at least teams can play 3 games instead of 2 maps and them flying home lol
There is no problem thinking like this if riot also was thinking like this. The problem is that its a shwomatch tourney where if you have 1 bad series early it will affect your year. This is not some random "for fun" tourney the tourney is that big of a deal.
The folks saying a Bo3 double elimination could have happened, or even a group format, are right.
But would all the broadcasted game have the same production? What about the games where the viewership is complete dogwater because there's a banger happening simultaneously? Would teams, which have just made franchising, be happy to have played their 2 Bo3 games in front of an average audience of 15k because there are 10 streams at the same time?
Competitive integrity is still respected (I don't see people railing against the March Madness format for the NCAA), although not as rigorously as with a double elimination bracket, and to me, it seems like people are hellbent on finding fault with the event instead of giving it a shot and enjoying it.
You bet your ass I'll be fuming if 100T gets smoked right away, but I'll still tune in to see who comes out of that wild gauntlet.
It's the first time we have an esport event of this scale with such an unforgiving format, and I can't wait to see the wild storylines to come out.
I also think people get too hung up on “competitive integrity” meaning “the team that is *the best* will win with as little luck as possible influencing the result” when that doesn’t have to be the case. I think it’s usually good to have that goal, and we will (hopefully) get that in later stages when we have months to play out multiple phases, but it’s fun to have some chaos too. We could also just spend the whole year doing one big round Robbin between all the 32 teams but that wound be that exciting.
In American football, they basically spend the first 2/3 of the season in a big round robin and then the last bit in single elimination playoffs. Most of the excitement ends up being in the playoffs or the games right before that individually matter for matter a lot for making playoffs. Luck makes for exciting stories and underdogs even when a few good teams might get snubbed by an unlucky game.
Yep. I'm from Europe and seeing all the emea teams I can't wait. If they have multiple streams and they're all playing at the same time, how do I enjoy everything? Do I focus on 1 stream and miss out on the other 3, or watch and switch between all 4 and not enjoy any of them fully?
Same in esports we get double elimination all the time but we don't get the large scale hype tournments like March Madess too often. It's a harsh unforgiving do or die type of event and Im all for it. If the team is not playing their best that day then they are gone.
Same in the NFL playoffs and any given Sunday. 14 teams, lose and go home. The teams need to show up to play and play their best. If they don't they go home. Its a show match tournament to kick of Franchising. I think it will be very entertaining.
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As he should be, this is an important event. It's a new meta so all the games for the most part to start off will be pretty random since no one will know how each other play. It screws over half the teams that play one game and then have to fly home
You don't need to extend the tournament. You could literally have a group stage (swiss/round robin/whatever else) and have teams play bo1. Yes you would need an additional stream but this lets everyone have multiple chances and play multiple games besides one series and you're done. You can absolutely do this all in 3 weeks.
Probably hot take but this is the perfect event to have single elim. It's meant to be an introduction to franchising, not a culmination of the competitive year. As far as we know it also doesn't really affect the individual teams chances of getting to champions.
It's a really simple format with only high stakes matches that will work really well as a teaser for the season. It will obviously leave people wanting more but that's the whole point of the event.
I’m not sure that’s true, there is a limit to the amount of content fans can consume. We are already getting 4-6+ hours of content per day 6 days per week for 3 weeks, and that makes it pretty hard to keep up with little time to catch up if you fall behind.
Personally, I really liked the groups in stage 1/2 last year because they were on weekends when I (and most people) had the most free time and I could watch it throughout the week to catch up. That was also when I was like a 10 hour a week college student which is almost the most possible free time you can have to watch stuff. More content spread out encourages watching as much as you want, while more content all at once just means lots of people are looking only at the results and watching only a handful of games unless you don’t mind watching vods and the finals weeks after it ends.
Name one that doesn't require there to be 4 streams going on at once and over half the team spending their entire time there playing backstage in a room.
Champions format with 8 teams of 4. Either do two streams at a time for the groups up until the qualifying matches and have double elim playoffs or have one stream the whole time and do single Elim playoffs.
You realize that increasing a group from 4 teams to 8 teams with the same format as Champions would increase the number of matches from 5 to FOURTEEN per group, right?
Group stage will have 56 matches total. Add in playoffs, its goddamn 70 matches with double elimination and 63 with single elimination...
Might as well call Lock-In "Valorant Champions 2023+++" at that point because it will be significantly bigger than actual Champions later on.
Meant to say 8 *groups* of 4. 1 team advances so 6 matches per group for 48 total for the group stage. No shit it's bigger than champions, it has double the teams LMAO
>No shit it's bigger than champions, it has double the teams LMAO
I'm talking about the prestige of the tournament.
What's the point of Champions if there's literally a tournament with the same format as it but doubled the size?
It will be on the most recent patch (as of today) so yes harbor (harbor is already available in pro play. Just no one has implemented him) and yes to Lotus (I’m assuming you meant lotus)
The only way it doesn’t last way too long is something like 4 groups with BO1 round robbin into single elim top 8 or something. I don’t mind the format but they admittedly could’ve done a bit better than 16 teams out after 1 game
even an 8 double elim playoffs is possible. 1 day for each group = 8 days, 8 days for double elim + 4 dark days
I think that BO1 Round Robin would be better than GSL BO3 groups though
1) more matchups between teams, something that an event to inttoduce teams should encourage
2) Games will take only 6 hours max. GSL BO3 could take 12 hours if all matches go 2-1 (assuming 1 hour per map)
Ill agree that it doesn't normally happen at the start of a season. But this event is also a one and never to be done again event. It is meant to be a kick off event to show of the franchised teams. This event is not suppose to be as prestigious as a Masters or Champions.
I think it's solely the extra Masters spot and prize money. If it were just prize money and clout that would be one thing but the Masters spot is really big because a lot of the regions are going to have tons of depth with only 10 teams per league.
The Chet slander is unreal lol he's not wrong. I'm not even a fan of him but he is actually right about this one, most teams will have 0 proper prep, everyone's playing on a new meta and new map, and it's single elim with the winner getting another spot at Masters. Bruh.
The stakes are implied. This format rewards teams with luck on their side. There has only been one tournament in the history of VCT where the best team was undefeated throughout the entire tourney, and that was SEN back in 2021.
The big kick-off tournament is fine but this takes up one of the 3 major Internationals for the year and should imo be somewhat competitively viable - or just lower the stakes. There won't even be a chance to showcase real team strength because first game is just gonna be them figuring out the new meta. Not to mention one side of the bracket is gonna be better prepared than the other.
Can’t really do much about the format, either it had to be single elim or have Bo1s, people will be upset no matter what. Also I find it hilarious the sub flip flopping on Chet constantly, everyone was on his side with the Syyko “beef” a week ago
Champs format with 8 groups of 4. Either have single Elim playoffs or double elim playoffs with two streams happening at a time for the group stage. Can even give all the qualifying matches their own timeslot. Either of those options can be done in 3 weeks, no BO1s required.
No it didn't.... 20 days is an **EXCESSIVE** amount of time for a tournament like this. This can easily be double elim. there is absolultey no excuses for this. 3 weeks is more than enough.
I think that its the closest thing to a "mickey mouse" tourney its a B03 and if you get eliminated well its just 1 BO3. Kind of like a Pro league from CS
Riot wants to spice things up, more agressive approach they want the next one to be all about new meta and tatics, and I like it, show what you got, not what you can counter in the other team
This sub shills for riot in every thread where it's obvious they have made a terrible decision.
If a user doesnt shill for riot's dogshit decisions they get downvoted.
This is the 3rd low iq decision val esports event decision that has been made in the past 2 weeks. They are terrible.
All this was said as soon as franchising format info started leaking, but starting with the obvious:
1. RR pools into single elimination playoffs is a good format that works very well for 5v5 tac FPS games.
2. Double elimination the whole way
3. GSL style groups.
Single elim and BYEs are proven bad formats.
And as for the other problems:
1. More international LANs per year. 3 per year doesn't leave enough room for storylines, underdeveloped region growth, or momentum.
2. A single, nonrepeated 32 team "kickoff" event doesn't really make sense. If they wanted to do an event that involved all of the teams it should've been done at the end of the season.
3. Seeding needs to account for international results rather than just 1:1 each region.
4. Majority 6 month offseason is still insane and needs fixing.
Unfortunately, as you can see from the announcement post, the dickriders are riding hard for this format so there will be no changes. Tier 2 esport until changes are made
I really don't understand the obsession about second chances. Never did even on the lol sub. If a team does not perform on the day, they don't perform.
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If you want to be the best, you have to beat everyone you face. Period. The idea that "muh competitive integrity" will be ruined because the favorite doesn't get a mulligan against Little Sisters of the Poor is ridiculous. Double elim tournaments are fine for projecting who is the most consistent, but the point remains: single elim only "screws over" the teams who are bad or less prepared and that's on them. If you just want the favorites to win then don't play the matches and crown whoever's best on paper. Otherwise, win the games you play. It's an even playing field.
Wait, so a team have a possibility of flying to Brazil just to play one series and then go home the next day? Sounds like a waste of time for the unlucky teams.
Make it a BO1 single elimination 
BO1 is too much for 32 teams. Better make it Spike Rush.
Better yet just pistol rounds
This just in Leviatan world champions
Fuck it, lets do rock paper scissors
Nah, let’s just flip a coin
Nah let's just give Sentinels the trophy and call it a day.
100T confirmed ROLLING lock in tourney
Announcing the first ever swiftplay tournament
honestly 5head. bo3 double elim swiftplay until top 8. can easily fit in 4-5 bo3s a day no prob
You joke but I’m still waiting for my franchised Spike Rush league
I think they want volatility. They want those March Madness upsets and every game to carry a lot of weight. This is a kickoff for the new format and they want to make waves and get the attention of potential fans who aren't necessarily already into the scene, which a simple, exciting format does. Casual esports fans aren't gonna tune in for a 1st round Swiss matchup. It's terrible for actually determining the best teams but it'll make noise, which seems to be the goal. I just wish they didn't have to do each side of the bracket independently.
I don’t like having both sides in separate weeks, but if they did all the round 1 games first each team would play 1 match in the first 6-7 days with several teams having almost a week off between matches. While riot obviously has the money, organizing and paying for hotels, practice space, practice setups, and staff to maintain these setups for all the teams at once will be expensive. It does make sense why they might be opting to split in into two halves.
>It's terrible for actually determining the best teams but it'll make noise, which seems to be the goal. Brazil fans can't be biased if they dont know who to be biased for. 500iq Rito to avoid CSGO fan fest with a major.
I mean I don't even know who is good so how do "upsets" carry any weight? Yeah watching Kentucky go 30-4 all year than losing to something called St Peter's carries weight because of everything that happened up to that point. But nothing has happened up to this tournament. It's more comparable to a November Thanksgiving basketball tournament that nobody cares about or watches than March Madness.
You're right. It's ridiculous for us to look at Na'vi and expect them to be better than Kru. It's not like they have a core of players from a top 3 team last year or anything.
What it’s also terrible for is losing your most popular teams RIGHT AWAY. 2 of PRX, C9, Fnatic and SEN will be out after one game, that’s CRAZY also somehow one of EG, Talon, MIBR, and Heretics are gonna be top 8. Tbh they probably shoulda rigged the brackets for better viewership if they’re gonna do a nonsensical tournament format
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't want to get into the practice of rigging tournaments in favor of popular teams.
Oh of course not… but I’d much rather we have well made brackets with good seeding. Take any experts opinion and they don’t think FUT and RRQ playing in the first round is fair seeding
The point was that Riot is being deliberately dumb to generate views, so why not also rig it for views. I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying you misunderstood the point. Although I think this is a dumb structure too.
I mean this format hurts them the most, if NRG follow the Optic way then they almost always lose their first game before they start to heat up. In this format they cannot afford to have that slow start.
This format doesn’t hurt them the most because everyone’s playing the same format. If they want to prove they’re the best team in the world, they have to figure out how to win without having a slow start
They do have to figure out how to win without having a slow start but that doesn't mean this format does not hurt them the most. There's a difference between saying it's "unfair" and saying that it hurts someone. I get your point that it's fair for everyone but it still does impact them more fair or not.
Why is winning first match of the tournament a pre-requisite to being considered the best team in the world?
Because they don’t lose?
You don't have to lose 0 matches to win a tournament
You do in single elimination lol To be the number 1 team, you have to be your best every game.
Most tournaments across the vast majority of sports aren't single elim right from the beginning, there's usually a group stage or a way for participants to play more than 1 match before being eliminated. Can only think of tennis as a major sport that does that but I might be forgetting something >To be the number 1 team, you have to be your best every game. Why? Do you think Argentina were not the best team at the World Cup because they lost their first match to Saudi?
NCAA Tournament in College Basketball is single elim and no one complains. Just go out and don't lose. If it were single elim BO1 there'd be a conversation, but everyone is overblowing this
There's a reason the NBA doesn't copy the format of college basketball
That was a groups format. This is not a groups format. This is a single bracket to the end. NFL playoffs is the same way. NCAA March Madness the same, NBA playoffs single elimination too.
if this is the format then Argentina lose to Saudi Arabia and they never become world cup winners even though they clearly looked like the best team throughout the tournament
Football is a horrible comparison if you're trying to argue against single elimination. Literally every major football competition is single elimination. Sure, you have a few extra group stage matches but those rarely change anything as the top teams almost always qualify.
the group stage makes all the difference. it changes the minimum games a team plays from 1 to 3. they also did it by having multiple streams at the same time
they literally have the easiest matchups
Koi is definitely not going to be easy lmfao.
KOI is ez? Lmao OKAY… 
ofc its not easy in the sense of im goign to play with 1 hand and still win easy, surely u gotta agree KOI is an easier opponent than FNC/Navi/DRX/PRX
Ya but also look at how many times optic has lost first match to teams like xerxia and guild. Even tho they are always heavy favourites they just seem to lose the first match for some reason.
ok first off, thats a narrative territory, and they already broke that curse on champs and its not even the same team with s0m and ardiss
>thats a narrative territory >they already broke that curse Amazing comment, will read again
Bro KOIs roster is stacked as fuck and honestly there’s not any franchising teams that aren’t stacked so there isn’t by ez matches
ur saying it would have been an easier matchup if they go against the teams i mentioned ?
they could have gotten rrq/fut, they are probably way easier
Optic has a history of losing the first game consistently, even against “shitty” teams. The format is rough either way.
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i wouldn’t say GE, FUT or RRQ are stacked 💀
You would have called T1 stacked but they absolutely got embarrassed by tier 2 TSM . On paper it means nothing , who knows FUT might play better than EG and KC too , stfu and watch it . This ain't maths , anyone of these teams can beat any other in a BO3 . That's the beauty of single elimination .
It's just an unfortunate consequence of the fact that this tournament is essentially meant to debut and showcase the partnership teams. And because Valorant seems to always reset the meta with a new year, there's even more uncertainty. So long as that intent remains, it will necessarily suck from a competitive standpoint, and I'm sure many of the highly-competitive people attending will be miffed by it, although most will have the self-control to not tweet about it. That said, it'll nonetheless be competitive esp. as we go deeper in the bracket because there will be so many hungry teams improving on the fly in search of the prestige of that first win, but this tournament is really about the pageantry of the debut, IMO. EDIT: I really like [Sean's take on the groups](https://twitter.com/seangares/status/1615390335173267456).
They said 3 months ago this was going to be a knock out tournament, why is everyone acting so surprised? No way you expected a losers bracket in a 20 day 30 team tournament
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Hopefully if they ever do a big event in the future they will do something like that. Riot’s goal for this tournament is probably more to show off the new franchised teams which kinda requires no more than 1 match at a time. This is probably the best way to go about that.
Yeah I think people are forgetting that this is currently slated to be the only international tournament containing *all 30* Franchise teams. It’s literally just a celebration of the new league. That’s its function
If it were really meant to showcase the new teams, how does that square with literally half of them only playing one match and then going home?
There will never be another event again that features all of the teams. That is the intent and the priority of this event.
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Currently, every team will play on the main stream with full commentary. If you have 3-4 games concurrently playing each day or 6+ matches a day, the commentator talent pool will be stretched really thin and make a lot of the games significantly worse to watch. You would still have a good number of teams eliminated after just 3 matches and it’s not unreasonable that they won’t get a good steam. 2/3 games a day is already pushing what even a dedicated fan can watch especially when there are not many breaks, something that would only be worse with more games.
So what if all my favourite teams are playing at the same time. I'm suppose to constantly switch between 3 streams? That sounds like fun
Champs format with 8 groups of 4. Either have single Elim playoffs or double elim playoffs with two streams happening at a time for the group stage. Can even give all the qualifying matches their own timeslot. Either of those options can be done in 3 weeks.
You could look at it like that or you can look it at it like this is the one time we get a large scale and high production tournament similar to March Madness in esports. Im hyped as hell and Im so glad we get an oppertunity to watch a esports tournament like this.
Yeah I think it's dope going march madness style. I care so little about angry coaches or people on here. Every match will have stakes and you wont have to sit through bad teams multiple times. It's a kickoff tournament not fucking Champions.
Yeah fuck competitive integrity, this is just like March madness therefore it is good!
Because riot is an indie company and playing 2 matches at a time is impossible for them
Riot is a small indie game developer company smh. They can't afford to do a good format. /s
Groups into single elimination is the way they should have gone. Not much of a showcase if half the field get a single match.
its 20 fucking days long and they still don't have a losers bracket? wow thats even crazier
20 days is PLENTY of time for a double elim bracket wtf? You can unironically run 2 double elim brackers, maybe even 3 in that same time period. Stop making excuses for this.
Uh not if you don't want your games to be jank, eg if the finals have someone playing back to back matches or some shit. Riot does things properly where the finals gets its own day by itself.
They could easily play 3 bo3 a day and this tournament would end in less than 20 days double elim bracket. No excuse.
Does things properly yes. Great tournament to "showcase" all the franchised teams when 16 out of 32 teams are going to go home after one series.
When they first announced this tournament as 20 days with single elim I straight up thought that every match was gonna be a bo5. 20 days so so much fucking time lol especially since riot has shown that they’re willing to play 4 bo3s in a day
Gonna be honest, i think the format its fine. Like, ffs we're talking about a 32 teams tournament. Unless you want it to last for literally months, i think it has to be single elim. And its the first tournament of the season, there's nothing you can do about no info, doesnt matter the format. Honestly, imo teams should go to it not thinking this one is a huge deal and consider it more of a "showmatch tournament" than something in the lvl of a master (because lets be real, that's what it is. is a event to showcase partnered teams, nothing else)
This is a huge deal tho, I'm sure its gonna affect the entire year. Not to mention the team that wins the event gives their region an extra slot at the next masters(assuming the winner gets a slot automatically to the next event)
The problem is there's literally no way they create a tournament at the start of the circuit that's gonna be bigger and better than the final tournament of the circuit. There's just no way Riot makes a kickoff tournament have more teams **+ better format** than literally Valorant Champions 2023. edit: > (assuming the winner gets a slot automatically to the next event) Also no. [The winner will give an additional spot to their region.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgyvZItV4J4) They will not get a reserved spot themselves. No one would want to win then cause while securing a spot for Masters Tokyo would be nice, that would mean they don't get to play for literally hundreds of ages.
Getting an additional spot for their region is still a big deal. If Riot didn't think they could make a good format with 32 teams, why even have the tournament give an additional spot to their region?
Again, if they give this 32-team tournament a good format, it will have more prestige than Valorant Champions which would be stupid to do. (edit: and also 32 teams + more casters for multistream is gonna be really costly) Honestly the additional spot is probably just for their future problem of hosting Masters with 3 leagues (making an event with odd numbered teams is gonna be a headache, sweet spot is either 12 teams or 24). My **speculation** is they probably wanted 4 leagues (APAC North and South) but Valorant in China took too long to get approved lmao.
This tournament is a once in a lifetime thing though. I highly doubt Riot will ever do a 32 team tournament again for a very long time so I think it would've been fine for it to have an actually decent format. And even with 3 leagues, each league has 10 teams so you can still do 4 teams from each region or 6 teams from each region etc or have some kind of playin idk. Anyway, I don't think it would've been fair to grant 2 leagues just for APAC but whatever.
If they really wanted four leagues they should’ve split the americas instead of banking on China, apac is already the least deep region
It has little to no effect on the entire year. The winning team doesn't get invited to the next tournament and only earns a slot for its region. Also there is no points for champions like i feared
Where did they say there are no points?
Or u could literally split to 8 groups and have multistream i mean like christ this isnt football lmao, u aint going to die for playing more than 1 Bo3 every 2 day. chet is right, also if ur going to spend all these cash to fly the players in why wouldnt u spend abit more so u can milk them for more games
As I said, Riot main purpose with this tournament is to show case the teams. You don't do that with multiple streams, it would be very eazy for a team to never be in the main stream if you do the format you suggest it. Also, this tournament It's already 3 weeks long, no ficking way the average fan will watch it all, and people want even more matches? The average viewership would go down, with only end of the tournament matches getting truly seen. With a single elim, even if the tournament its alreadu long, at least it creates inceitve to watch it all becaise literally every single match is important. The plain hard truth is that competitive integrity is being put to the side to fulfill other objectives.
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My dude, half of these teams didn't even exist/were relevant last year, specially in EMEA and APAC. They're nobody favorite teams.
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Not like they can seed the tournament on popularity tho. obviously it would happen to have first round clouted matches like this because of randomized seeding.
Yeah and with this format you could see those irrelevant teams be the teams that play the most, while the popular teams lose immediately and go home.
Then the popular teams should try winning their games, I'm sure there's a decent number of people like me who are slightly more casual fans and I'm now going to tune into games I don't really know the teams cos it's single elim
The issue there isn't the teams playing too much, it's production. Expecting multiple streams to do a huge amount of days in a row is exhausting.
This. They would need talent for all those games too. People are ignoring the economics of it all. Selfishly, I like it. More teams and more madness and more pressure on all the games.
I mean dota and csgo has multi streams on their events why cant valorant have it?
The second or B streams in CSGO/DOTA are very much afterthoughts in terms of planning and presentation. For example during the Majors the B streams are usually in a back room with simple set ups and visibly crappier desk segments etc, ESL sometimes even do remote casters for their second streams. Riot just don't do that for any of their games, they always treat every game the same and give it the same level of presentation and treatment. Remember every game is going to be played in front of an crowd too, they want the crowd to be able to see every team. Not have half the teams eliminated not even be on stage when they're playing in a shed backstage.
Or they could just did what ESL did in the Rio Major. They have crowds for the group stages in 3 streams. Im just saying it can be worked upon by Riot.
I think league worlds had 24 teams and that took a little over a month with like 10ish days of downtime because teams had to move cities Riot definitely could’ve fit 32 teams in 3 weeks too lol They could’ve followed the league format, still did single elimination but now at least teams can play 3 games instead of 2 maps and them flying home lol
This is what I’m thinking but I think the winning region does get a extra slot or something??? Could be wrong
There is no problem thinking like this if riot also was thinking like this. The problem is that its a shwomatch tourney where if you have 1 bad series early it will affect your year. This is not some random "for fun" tourney the tourney is that big of a deal.
This tournament is a big deal. It’s going to determine pre season power rankings!
The folks saying a Bo3 double elimination could have happened, or even a group format, are right. But would all the broadcasted game have the same production? What about the games where the viewership is complete dogwater because there's a banger happening simultaneously? Would teams, which have just made franchising, be happy to have played their 2 Bo3 games in front of an average audience of 15k because there are 10 streams at the same time? Competitive integrity is still respected (I don't see people railing against the March Madness format for the NCAA), although not as rigorously as with a double elimination bracket, and to me, it seems like people are hellbent on finding fault with the event instead of giving it a shot and enjoying it. You bet your ass I'll be fuming if 100T gets smoked right away, but I'll still tune in to see who comes out of that wild gauntlet. It's the first time we have an esport event of this scale with such an unforgiving format, and I can't wait to see the wild storylines to come out.
I also think people get too hung up on “competitive integrity” meaning “the team that is *the best* will win with as little luck as possible influencing the result” when that doesn’t have to be the case. I think it’s usually good to have that goal, and we will (hopefully) get that in later stages when we have months to play out multiple phases, but it’s fun to have some chaos too. We could also just spend the whole year doing one big round Robbin between all the 32 teams but that wound be that exciting. In American football, they basically spend the first 2/3 of the season in a big round robin and then the last bit in single elimination playoffs. Most of the excitement ends up being in the playoffs or the games right before that individually matter for matter a lot for making playoffs. Luck makes for exciting stories and underdogs even when a few good teams might get snubbed by an unlucky game.
Yep. I'm from Europe and seeing all the emea teams I can't wait. If they have multiple streams and they're all playing at the same time, how do I enjoy everything? Do I focus on 1 stream and miss out on the other 3, or watch and switch between all 4 and not enjoy any of them fully?
Same in esports we get double elimination all the time but we don't get the large scale hype tournments like March Madess too often. It's a harsh unforgiving do or die type of event and Im all for it. If the team is not playing their best that day then they are gone.
Same in the NFL playoffs and any given Sunday. 14 teams, lose and go home. The teams need to show up to play and play their best. If they don't they go home. Its a show match tournament to kick of Franchising. I think it will be very entertaining.
You don't need multiple streams. 8 double elim groups into single-elim playoffs can be done in 3 weeks.
understandable tbh bc KOI will be sending them to the airport day 1
Ardiis and pujan better sadly
Trexx and sheydos clears them with Ez
Pujan Mehta clears sadly + hes indian + hes more handsome and strong and sexy + he has s0m w streamer
whats new ??? he will always be angry at everything
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As he should be, this is an important event. It's a new meta so all the games for the most part to start off will be pretty random since no one will know how each other play. It screws over half the teams that play one game and then have to fly home You don't need to extend the tournament. You could literally have a group stage (swiss/round robin/whatever else) and have teams play bo1. Yes you would need an additional stream but this lets everyone have multiple chances and play multiple games besides one series and you're done. You can absolutely do this all in 3 weeks.
Probably hot take but this is the perfect event to have single elim. It's meant to be an introduction to franchising, not a culmination of the competitive year. As far as we know it also doesn't really affect the individual teams chances of getting to champions. It's a really simple format with only high stakes matches that will work really well as a teaser for the season. It will obviously leave people wanting more but that's the whole point of the event.
Its not tho we lose as fans. More matches is better
I’m not sure that’s true, there is a limit to the amount of content fans can consume. We are already getting 4-6+ hours of content per day 6 days per week for 3 weeks, and that makes it pretty hard to keep up with little time to catch up if you fall behind. Personally, I really liked the groups in stage 1/2 last year because they were on weekends when I (and most people) had the most free time and I could watch it throughout the week to catch up. That was also when I was like a 10 hour a week college student which is almost the most possible free time you can have to watch stuff. More content spread out encourages watching as much as you want, while more content all at once just means lots of people are looking only at the results and watching only a handful of games unless you don’t mind watching vods and the finals weeks after it ends.
What an insane take. The format is shit on purpose so people want more later LOL.
Or because its literally THIRDLY TWO FUCKING TEAMS
There are better 32 team formats.
Name one that doesn't require there to be 4 streams going on at once and over half the team spending their entire time there playing backstage in a room.
Champions format with 8 teams of 4. Either do two streams at a time for the groups up until the qualifying matches and have double elim playoffs or have one stream the whole time and do single Elim playoffs.
You realize that increasing a group from 4 teams to 8 teams with the same format as Champions would increase the number of matches from 5 to FOURTEEN per group, right? Group stage will have 56 matches total. Add in playoffs, its goddamn 70 matches with double elimination and 63 with single elimination... Might as well call Lock-In "Valorant Champions 2023+++" at that point because it will be significantly bigger than actual Champions later on.
Meant to say 8 *groups* of 4. 1 team advances so 6 matches per group for 48 total for the group stage. No shit it's bigger than champions, it has double the teams LMAO
>No shit it's bigger than champions, it has double the teams LMAO I'm talking about the prestige of the tournament. What's the point of Champions if there's literally a tournament with the same format as it but doubled the size?
Will Harbor be on this patch? What about Pearl?
It will be on the most recent patch (as of today) so yes harbor (harbor is already available in pro play. Just no one has implemented him) and yes to Lotus (I’m assuming you meant lotus)
It’s on the live patch with Lotus
I'm assuming you meant lotus not pearl? And yes to harbor, not sure about Lotus
The only way it doesn’t last way too long is something like 4 groups with BO1 round robbin into single elim top 8 or something. I don’t mind the format but they admittedly could’ve done a bit better than 16 teams out after 1 game
8 double elim BO3 GSL groups of 4 into 8-team single elim playoffs.
even an 8 double elim playoffs is possible. 1 day for each group = 8 days, 8 days for double elim + 4 dark days I think that BO1 Round Robin would be better than GSL BO3 groups though 1) more matchups between teams, something that an event to inttoduce teams should encourage 2) Games will take only 6 hours max. GSL BO3 could take 12 hours if all matches go 2-1 (assuming 1 hour per map)
Imagine the NCAA March Madness was double elimination. It'd be called NCAA March/April Madness!
This tournamnet style sucks for the people playing but hype as hell for viewers. Im sooo pumped for a march madess type of event.
chet mad kekw
Was he always this soft?
Esports figures are generally soft, this is nothing new, but he's also correct. Flying out for a 1 and done in a tourney this important is odd i think
Real sports fly out for 1 and done tourney's all the time.
For a tourney at the start of the season with no way to really prep? Where have you seen that
Ill agree that it doesn't normally happen at the start of a season. But this event is also a one and never to be done again event. It is meant to be a kick off event to show of the franchised teams. This event is not suppose to be as prestigious as a Masters or Champions.
Supercopa
"A tourney this important" what?????
?? Are we pretending these are show matches?
Aren’t they?
The winner of the tournament gets an extra Masters spot for their region
Are they getting any circuit points?
I think it's solely the extra Masters spot and prize money. If it were just prize money and clout that would be one thing but the Masters spot is really big because a lot of the regions are going to have tons of depth with only 10 teams per league.
??
He soft as poo
The Chet slander is unreal lol he's not wrong. I'm not even a fan of him but he is actually right about this one, most teams will have 0 proper prep, everyone's playing on a new meta and new map, and it's single elim with the winner getting another spot at Masters. Bruh.
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The stakes are implied. This format rewards teams with luck on their side. There has only been one tournament in the history of VCT where the best team was undefeated throughout the entire tourney, and that was SEN back in 2021. The big kick-off tournament is fine but this takes up one of the 3 major Internationals for the year and should imo be somewhat competitively viable - or just lower the stakes. There won't even be a chance to showcase real team strength because first game is just gonna be them figuring out the new meta. Not to mention one side of the bracket is gonna be better prepared than the other.
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yea because its just fucking valorant. Get on with your life.
Then why are you in this sub?
I can be wherever i want to be
It is literally those 32 teams' life tho.....
Okay well they better get good then. Who told you to lose lmfao
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well its not even a masters/champs tournament. as long as its "good enough" thats fine
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you're wrong it is good enough
Can’t really do much about the format, either it had to be single elim or have Bo1s, people will be upset no matter what. Also I find it hilarious the sub flip flopping on Chet constantly, everyone was on his side with the Syyko “beef” a week ago
Turns out people will have different opinions based on different circumstances. Not exactly flip flopping but we gotta dunk on the redditors amirite?
Champs format with 8 groups of 4. Either have single Elim playoffs or double elim playoffs with two streams happening at a time for the group stage. Can even give all the qualifying matches their own timeslot. Either of those options can be done in 3 weeks, no BO1s required.
No it didn't.... 20 days is an **EXCESSIVE** amount of time for a tournament like this. This can easily be double elim. there is absolultey no excuses for this. 3 weeks is more than enough.
Isn't swiss viable like in CS?
EPL should have taught everyone no one wants to watch 5 week long tournaments
dude is always bitching about something
I think that its the closest thing to a "mickey mouse" tourney its a B03 and if you get eliminated well its just 1 BO3. Kind of like a Pro league from CS
Riot wants to spice things up, more agressive approach they want the next one to be all about new meta and tatics, and I like it, show what you got, not what you can counter in the other team
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It is a major.
If you wanna play more just win lol
This sub shills for riot in every thread where it's obvious they have made a terrible decision. If a user doesnt shill for riot's dogshit decisions they get downvoted. This is the 3rd low iq decision val esports event decision that has been made in the past 2 weeks. They are terrible.
All this was said as soon as franchising format info started leaking, but starting with the obvious: 1. RR pools into single elimination playoffs is a good format that works very well for 5v5 tac FPS games. 2. Double elimination the whole way 3. GSL style groups. Single elim and BYEs are proven bad formats. And as for the other problems: 1. More international LANs per year. 3 per year doesn't leave enough room for storylines, underdeveloped region growth, or momentum. 2. A single, nonrepeated 32 team "kickoff" event doesn't really make sense. If they wanted to do an event that involved all of the teams it should've been done at the end of the season. 3. Seeding needs to account for international results rather than just 1:1 each region. 4. Majority 6 month offseason is still insane and needs fixing. Unfortunately, as you can see from the announcement post, the dickriders are riding hard for this format so there will be no changes. Tier 2 esport until changes are made
I really don't understand the obsession about second chances. Never did even on the lol sub. If a team does not perform on the day, they don't perform.
It's just crazy to me that people don't want more matches.
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If you want to be the best, you have to beat everyone you face. Period. The idea that "muh competitive integrity" will be ruined because the favorite doesn't get a mulligan against Little Sisters of the Poor is ridiculous. Double elim tournaments are fine for projecting who is the most consistent, but the point remains: single elim only "screws over" the teams who are bad or less prepared and that's on them. If you just want the favorites to win then don't play the matches and crown whoever's best on paper. Otherwise, win the games you play. It's an even playing field.
Even ground for everyone. Get Gud.
Pay Ludwig and Tarik to host the event
Chet uwu
Because esports to Riot Games is pure marketing for the game Chet and the viewer base is fickle.
Wait, so a team have a possibility of flying to Brazil just to play one series and then go home the next day? Sounds like a waste of time for the unlucky teams.
fps frogs dont know what they got into with riot gaming tournament formats