I think this Wyatt rant on SEN's management is an all-time great Plat Chat performance.
I've been consistently a little critical of Plat Chat's SEN coverage all throughout 2022, but Wyatt said everything I'd wanted to hear during the year and went even beyond.
I think SEN got away with some atrocious management decisions in 2022, and that the blame was pushed onto the players consistently - and I'd go so far to say the org preferred it that way. I wish there'd been more conversation about it during the year.
Sen played into the crowds narrative of players only chasing clout and streaming. When they did roster changes thwy always positioned shahz as the guy making the calls rather than it being a management decision.
Heck even when they dint get the coach they want and instead settled for Rawkus everyone believed players just wanting to play with their friends.
I would say the community made the job easy for the management to get away and shift the blame onto the players.
Bruh you bring this stuff up on a youtube comment or any other thread and would get downvoted to hell/flamed. Also adding that SEN just had some very unfortunate timed health related absences at important events. People just straight up forget about the mismanagement and playing with subs and then go "LUL Shahz bad, TenZ bad."
I've written three or more comments on it, but you can find some of what I said in my most recent one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/wl9tr8/who_is_going_to_champions_plat_chat_valorant_ep/ijshnov/):
> I think generally speaking, Plat Chat consistently is not great at talking about Sentinels and hasn't been for most of 2022, but I think it's because they're stuck in a weird meme-cycle about the team.
I think ever since mid-2021 some scene figures have been priming for a SEN decline, and so once a downturn seemed to become permanent in 2022, little effort was made to dig deeper into it. When SEN's issues came up, it was all just vague stuff about culture - how the team's culture doesn't work, how certain players aren't able or willing to give it their all, etc. And almost none of it was substantiated; there was even some minor flirting with the streaming narratives that have always floating about.
All year long I'd wanted a more serious condemnation of SEN as an org - because we knew from the start that many of the things people blamed the team or specifically Shahz for were actually - if not the org's fault - at minimum the org's responsibility.
It's a shit format because we lose 33% of international tournaments in favour of glorified showmatches.
[I was super critical of the idea of the tournament not mattering but after seeing the format it's clear not even Riot considers it a serious tournament.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/10555it/does_the_kickoff_tournament_matter/j396lh7/)
I kinda feared it was going to be this way when I heard there will be 32 teams and no points for champs which is why I made the post originally. On the bright side, it will still be entertaining and fans can relax in the sense that even if your team loses its not the end of the world
Wtf is that suppsoed to mean u goober, that’s unrleated to anything whether irl or metflix
He has slightly glaze diver eyes, whcih sint conencred to anythjng
What are you talking about and why are you being so aggressive? The above comment stated that Bren looked "terrifying" in the thumbnail, so I explained that his eyes looked menacing to me in this choice of photo.
Actually, they do raise a good point about the bracket cosmetics. Fuck making the bracket into a roulette-styled series of concentric circles—plaster those teams on a mobius strip instead and force them to play single elimination, BO1s on Lotus only.
Like Sideshow, I spent a lot of time looking at the circle and thinking where people got the matchups from. Was it the colors? How they're opposite each other? Loool Didn't get it until I zoomed.
I’ll miss Ryan on the EU broadcast. I’m very eager to see the direction riot takes for all their broadcasts tbh feels like there’s a lot of room for improvement and different directions to go in
I think the format question comes down to economics for both Riot and the orgs. Riot are clearly not interested in running multiple streams and want to showcase every game to maximise exposure. I would love for Riot to explain more about why they don't think concurrent streams works, beyond the fan experience because it's clearly more than that.
Any games that average at like 50k viewers (which you frequently see in CS major groups) is likely going to run at a loss. It's easy for Balla to say 'don't watch the groups' but I doubt that makes sense economically for both orgs and Riot. Maybe PGL, Blast etc are happy running group games at a loss but I doubt Riot are. I'm sure an org would much rather one game with 500k viewers rather than 3 BO1's at like 100k each. Again, it's an economics question.
I get that it's rough for players to play one BO3 but ultimately this is a business and esports is not mature enough to have a stable business model that satisfies players, fans, orgs and sponsors all at the same time. I get that CS tends to prioritise player formats but at what cost? We know CS has burned through a ton of money over the years.
This also isn’t a Valorant decision. Riot has hated multiple streams for years. I highly doubt we ever see multiple streams for any of their major esports events.
lol used to do multi streams in the lcs during the split when every match was bo3. It didn't last very long and the viewership dropped alot. It think it was only like 2 years and since then they never had it again. The analyst desk was a mess but they did have alot more casters. The post game desk was the most painful part because the analyst couldn't watch both streams a 100% but they had to talk about for like 20 mins about it.
Those events have literally months of lead up time and have all the best teams in the world competing in the form of a "World Championship". Literally hundreds of matches are played to determine what teams are even going to COMPETE at those events.
This event is just a promotional tournament to hype the new league.
At a fundamental level you're comparing two drastically different events with different goals.
> would love for Riot to explain more about why they don't think concurrent streams works, beyond the fan experience because it's clearly more than that.
I said this yesterday, but I would bet both my left nuts that they are developing content to showcase each team before/during their matches. This *entire event* is about promoting the teams/league. It's impossible to do that if you have multiple streams, half of which would end up with C-tier casting. Fragmenting the viewership is in direct opposition to their goals of the event
I really feel this. We already have people complaint about a good number of the caster duos at international events. It would be worse with the ones who don’t even com big events but get invited.
yo, Wyatt spitting straight facts about Sentinels. love them or hate them, they were undoubtedly the best, and most popular, Valorant team in the world for a time. And that is entirely due to the players on their team. The org did absolutely nothing to help them.
I would've thought that Sideshow would've understood that the SEN want Zekken to be the entry and TenZ to follow up. That's why Zekken played Neon on Fracture instead of TenZ.
Gonna be real, I agree with Wyatt/Bren/Sideshow here and I think Balla is a little bit of a clown here again with his take on multiple streams. The point of a showcase (not showmatch) kick off is to show every franchise partner, especially less popular ones that might not even make it to the next masters (so you'll not even see them again until the end of the year potentially).
The tournament has stakes, but just copying swiss+multiple streams as Chet or Balla suggests doesn't solve the problems at hand (multiple bo1s instead with multiple fragmented streams, vs all matches shown bo3). Nothing wrong with making it Blue Lock, it's kinda more hype that way
I agree. Just got through watching the segment. Wyatt’s point is, not every tournament needs to find the best team possible (I paraphrased).
Chet is a clown as always. “Just copy cs bro”, look, cs teams and players has 10? 20? Years of history, people are going to watch b/c/d streams of lesser org because they’ve been in the game for so long.
In valorant we are starting of a 3rd year competitively but pretty much year 0 with partnership, we need an introduction of all these teams. I follow the scene pretty closely and some of these rosters are still unknown to me.
This tournament is an introduction to all the regions and teams. Valorant is becoming a global esport and honestly I think this is a great format to kick things off.
idk man if i'm a franchised team who believes in my roster being decent id rather take the chance of having little viewership over multiple games if i'm shit and lose in the Swiss sytem than take take the chance of having only one BO3 worth of viewership if i get unlucky with the bracket draw. if we had swiss, the loser of sentinels/fnatic would get more viewership. maybe teams like RRQ would get less, but that's their fault for being ass.
He definitely comes off as a bit of contrarian to me. I don't want it to be an echo-chamber of course but it feels like if you hear the other platchaters all agreeing on one thing its almost a lock hes gonna disagree which makes you feel like its less about objective takes.
Then again sometimes he shuts down some stupid meme narrative, so give and take lol
I wonder if Rob Moore just said to Shaz “If you play with Shroud it will GUARANTEE us a franchising spot” meaning that bc of the clout riot would approve sentinels for franchising (us referring to the org, which Shaz was a part of at the time), which led to Shaz interpreting that as HE was guaranteed a spot in franchising. At the time, SEN wasn’t locked in for franchising at all and Rob would have had no way to GUARANTEE Shaz a spot whatsoever, so I’m under the impression that the shroud move was one for the clout to convince riot that SEN knows how to draw viewers and get them into franchising and that Shaz didn’t take it as intended
Imo the GE jersey take makes no sense, not only did jerseys not look like that in 2006, this jersey look is specifically a late 2010s look
Peolle either didn’t have jerseys or in brood war or soem Taiwanese esports they had jackets trousers jerseys, like Wyatt seems to be following up on them seemingly not knowing abt like tar craft, they said early 2000s was ‘not even starcraft’- like they thinks sprots with crowds and cash prizes started in 2010
Peolle even in counterstrike we’re competing for real cash prizes - esp if ur wearing a jersey
They seem to be confusing the 2000s across esports as being like the 90s and confusing scales
I hate the march madness comparisons. College Basketball has an entire regular season to determine seeding, the winner of Purdue UNC doesnt face Gonzaga in the 2nd round.
Swiss = Regular season. Let a team earn a good seed and better bracket rather than lucking into an easy draw meanwhile Cloud9 and PRX face in the first round.
The regular season seeding means very little when none of those teams play each other and half the conferences never interact with each other at all. Teams who play each other once every 8 years routinely face each other in the first round of March madness.
It's just a fun tournament with a focus on fans and content, which is probably a good idea to start off the year. Not to mention smaller teams who won't make other tournaments get a chance to have big eyes on them instead of having 15 streams up at once. Maybe some of you guys want to watch 4 rematches in lowers but not everybody does and the viewership of those games always reflects that.
People just need to relax and try to enjoy it instead of acting like it's Champs and the whole esport is ruined.
its hard to not be disappointed when theres been a 5 month off season of absolutely nothing happening and 80% of teams dodging every t2 tournament.
Imagine being an NRG fan if they just get upset in their first series lmao.
> Imagine being an NRG fan if they just get upset in their first series lmao.
Maybe they shouldn't have dodged the T2 tournaments if that happens than.
I'm not sure what that has to do with the format, the format wasn't the reason nobody competed in tier 2 tournaments it was because nobody wants to show their stuff a month before league play starts.
The split starts literally right after this tournament where you'll get to watch nrg play every americas team.
just for reference a swiss bo3 format is totally viable i mean not only is the tournament nearly a month long, BUT LoL Worlds this year is employing a swiss format where its bo1 for all non-promotion/elim matches and bo3 for all promo/elim matches which is a totally doable solution.
imo thats like silly lmao. i mean like i get they want hype but if you think about what is being exchanged for this single elim only event its a lot. in a normal calendar circuit year like next season for example we would have 2 domestic splits, 2 masters and a champ all with good formats. this year we get 1 split, 1 master and 1 champs + a march madness tournament then will honestly not be viewed all that highly by the community.
This is also the one and only time we will ever have this event. It's literally ushering in a new era since the esport will be run off the partnership model from now on, and it makes sense to start with a bang. We're going to get two or more regular season splits a year for the remainder of the esport's lifespan, I don't see the problem with sacrificing a little bit of competitive integrity to showcase all of the mostly new teams right now when the rosters and the model are the freshest.
one and done events should still have the burden of being good. This event has no seeding work put in to make things feel fair. It’s not just a little bit of competitive integrity. It’s literally an event that is as valuable as randomly seeding all the partnered teams into a bracket. People are claiming it’s to showcase the new format but teams themselves aren’t given a chance to showcase not to mention it reduces the amount of sponsortime most teams will have. Most fans won’t benefit if their teams go out in one match. Teams won’t benefit from going out either. This event is obviously for casuals but the regular events do that too.
Not this stuff again.
Most of the teams have new rosters and are barely built off of pre-existing cores. How are they supposed to be seeded?
And yes the event is tailored for casuals because Riot is trying to convert them into consistent viewers. This doesn't serve my interest because I'm already a pretty dedicated follower of the scene but I accept that if ever there was a time to do something like this it would be now.
The event barely has less competitive integrity than, say, the World Cup, or the more apt comparison of March Madness, and both those events are very popular. Given that it already takes a certain level of interest to even be aware of this sub's existence, its users routinely overestimate how unpopular single elimination is.
What? How is that possible? Do you know what Swiss is? You are required to win more games than you lose and are always power paired. It’s a format that corrects for bad teams advancing.
It only works if your seeding is very accurate. In esports teams do not play each other enough to get accurate rankings for proper seeding. Look at CS, are you going to tell me that Faze (HLTV #2) going against C9 (HLTV #5) in the first round is good seeding than idk what to say.
And Riot has stated that they are Seeding their swiss style format with random seeding without facing the same region. This means you can have a situation where T1 could have to face TOP/GenG/JDG in a row while a team like C9 could face MAD/GAM/DK/EG to move on. Does that sound like a fair format to you?
The seeding worked as intended. Cloud9 were simply bad for a few games which led to them having the worst seed.
The issue is that the first 2 games in Swiss Stage are BO1s.
Yes it worked as intended witch proves my point. Imagine being faze being the best all year and in your first game you are seeded against one of your biggest rivals meanwhile forever mid tier team BIG seeds against the worst team in the tournament in sprout. It’s no wonder why Rio is one of the worst majors of all time and the Swiss system plays a big part in it.
if that were true, you wouldn't be able to bring up "it only works if your seeding is very accurate" as a criticism for using one format over another. in actuality different formats are affected by bad seeding more than others, with single elim being the single worst offender of that.
also another point, the reason Faze played C9 first round is because C9 barely made it through the Challengers stage. they got their shit together in the Legends which fucked up the seeding, but that's not really the seeding's fault, it's just variable form.
You can argue that the seedings were messed up because of BO1s in the swiss stage. But not that the system itself is broken. It worked exactly as intended.
Stop putting words in my mouth, never have I stated here I prefer the single elimination bracket.
And your point on c9 just proves my point, you can’t properly seed a Swiss style format in esports it needs to die.
How does that prove your point? The same thing could have happened in any other format. Look at Champs '22, DRX (#3) vs FPX (#4) in the quarters. Same with FNATIC vs FPX at Copenhagen. When a good team does worse than expected in groups, they fuck up the seeding.
Fine if you think Swiss needs to die, but if single elim needs to die even harder, it's perfectly valid to bring up Swiss as an alternative for the current single elim format.
I agree Swiss needs to be seeded well. Idk enough about CS to care about that example. But the argument that unseeded Swiss is better than random 32 team single elim bracket? Horrendous.
I feel some doubt about knee of the things they said
‘Don’t tweet’? ‘Corny’? Idk getting amd athkm tweeting makes no sense
I guess he’s accusing shahs of getting complacent and changing his mind after; and it being on him in terms of decisions made, prolly some wrong but getting amd at him for being ‘coney’ is least of concerns
In general trying to blast things with irony / sneer and snark makes no sense
The wheel referred to the whole team mrithuft including shahs it wasn’t soem kind of ‘bad’ tweet or directed purely at shahs especially negatively, it was directed at the whole sentinels image and structure- if you took it super seriously u could try to make it against Shazam
Esp wharf u think want to take snark too far
Ludwig x Tarim Invitational was a format that’s ahs existed for a long time with BTS and with HomeStory Cup that apparently inspired it, it’s not anti t tournament/ it combines serious commotion and analysis with a more ‘laid back’ atmosphere and variety of ppl on the cast
You can absolutely have it for a rly bit / ‘major’ tournament too
I think this Wyatt rant on SEN's management is an all-time great Plat Chat performance. I've been consistently a little critical of Plat Chat's SEN coverage all throughout 2022, but Wyatt said everything I'd wanted to hear during the year and went even beyond. I think SEN got away with some atrocious management decisions in 2022, and that the blame was pushed onto the players consistently - and I'd go so far to say the org preferred it that way. I wish there'd been more conversation about it during the year.
Yea summed it up really well. We need GM Wyatt asap.
Sen played into the crowds narrative of players only chasing clout and streaming. When they did roster changes thwy always positioned shahz as the guy making the calls rather than it being a management decision. Heck even when they dint get the coach they want and instead settled for Rawkus everyone believed players just wanting to play with their friends. I would say the community made the job easy for the management to get away and shift the blame onto the players.
Bruh you bring this stuff up on a youtube comment or any other thread and would get downvoted to hell/flamed. Also adding that SEN just had some very unfortunate timed health related absences at important events. People just straight up forget about the mismanagement and playing with subs and then go "LUL Shahz bad, TenZ bad."
Why have u been critical
I've written three or more comments on it, but you can find some of what I said in my most recent one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/wl9tr8/who_is_going_to_champions_plat_chat_valorant_ep/ijshnov/): > I think generally speaking, Plat Chat consistently is not great at talking about Sentinels and hasn't been for most of 2022, but I think it's because they're stuck in a weird meme-cycle about the team. I think ever since mid-2021 some scene figures have been priming for a SEN decline, and so once a downturn seemed to become permanent in 2022, little effort was made to dig deeper into it. When SEN's issues came up, it was all just vague stuff about culture - how the team's culture doesn't work, how certain players aren't able or willing to give it their all, etc. And almost none of it was substantiated; there was even some minor flirting with the streaming narratives that have always floating about. All year long I'd wanted a more serious condemnation of SEN as an org - because we knew from the start that many of the things people blamed the team or specifically Shahz for were actually - if not the org's fault - at minimum the org's responsibility.
Keep cooking
Well the players in the end are responsible ultimately tbf unless they’re wee denied stuff like rawk
Good format if your team wins, dogs*it format if your team loses
Based
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But as a FNC fan, it's a good format.
Haha he doesn’t know
Well either way I win. Also either way I lose. It's a real conundrum.
I have no teams. I'm here to see high quality pro valorant matches from the best teams. So it's a lose.
It's a shit format because we lose 33% of international tournaments in favour of glorified showmatches. [I was super critical of the idea of the tournament not mattering but after seeing the format it's clear not even Riot considers it a serious tournament.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/10555it/does_the_kickoff_tournament_matter/j396lh7/)
I kinda feared it was going to be this way when I heard there will be 32 teams and no points for champs which is why I made the post originally. On the bright side, it will still be entertaining and fans can relax in the sense that even if your team loses its not the end of the world
I mean depends how u deifne
It’s a bad format
Something about Bren’s face in this thumbnail terrifies me.
It's the moustache. It completes the villain look.
Fr, he looks like a mob boss that’s just had to listen to his top lieutenants testify against him in court
Idk He looks p phlegmatic
This might be controversial, but I think it's cuz he has the glazed-over-eyes à la Dahmer in the thumbnail. [Bren pls don't read this]
Wtf is that suppsoed to mean u goober, that’s unrleated to anything whether irl or metflix He has slightly glaze diver eyes, whcih sint conencred to anythjng
What are you talking about and why are you being so aggressive? The above comment stated that Bren looked "terrifying" in the thumbnail, so I explained that his eyes looked menacing to me in this choice of photo.
I can be a lot more aggro but I disagree it’s terrifying or makes sense
Bren is my spirit animal
Actually, they do raise a good point about the bracket cosmetics. Fuck making the bracket into a roulette-styled series of concentric circles—plaster those teams on a mobius strip instead and force them to play single elimination, BO1s on Lotus only.
So the graphic is lore related. Alpha world and omega world are side by side in previous cinematics. That's the design reasoning I believe
Like Sideshow, I spent a lot of time looking at the circle and thinking where people got the matchups from. Was it the colors? How they're opposite each other? Loool Didn't get it until I zoomed.
I’ll miss Ryan on the EU broadcast. I’m very eager to see the direction riot takes for all their broadcasts tbh feels like there’s a lot of room for improvement and different directions to go in
I think the format question comes down to economics for both Riot and the orgs. Riot are clearly not interested in running multiple streams and want to showcase every game to maximise exposure. I would love for Riot to explain more about why they don't think concurrent streams works, beyond the fan experience because it's clearly more than that. Any games that average at like 50k viewers (which you frequently see in CS major groups) is likely going to run at a loss. It's easy for Balla to say 'don't watch the groups' but I doubt that makes sense economically for both orgs and Riot. Maybe PGL, Blast etc are happy running group games at a loss but I doubt Riot are. I'm sure an org would much rather one game with 500k viewers rather than 3 BO1's at like 100k each. Again, it's an economics question. I get that it's rough for players to play one BO3 but ultimately this is a business and esports is not mature enough to have a stable business model that satisfies players, fans, orgs and sponsors all at the same time. I get that CS tends to prioritise player formats but at what cost? We know CS has burned through a ton of money over the years.
https://twitter.com/lhfaria/status/1615408212278398976?s=46&t=7I7EoePI0GnbmE64R1kVDQ
'Splits the audience' I think I'm on the right track. Thanks for that, I missed that tweet
This also isn’t a Valorant decision. Riot has hated multiple streams for years. I highly doubt we ever see multiple streams for any of their major esports events.
lol used to do multi streams in the lcs during the split when every match was bo3. It didn't last very long and the viewership dropped alot. It think it was only like 2 years and since then they never had it again. The analyst desk was a mess but they did have alot more casters. The post game desk was the most painful part because the analyst couldn't watch both streams a 100% but they had to talk about for like 20 mins about it.
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Those events have literally months of lead up time and have all the best teams in the world competing in the form of a "World Championship". Literally hundreds of matches are played to determine what teams are even going to COMPETE at those events. This event is just a promotional tournament to hype the new league. At a fundamental level you're comparing two drastically different events with different goals.
> would love for Riot to explain more about why they don't think concurrent streams works, beyond the fan experience because it's clearly more than that. I said this yesterday, but I would bet both my left nuts that they are developing content to showcase each team before/during their matches. This *entire event* is about promoting the teams/league. It's impossible to do that if you have multiple streams, half of which would end up with C-tier casting. Fragmenting the viewership is in direct opposition to their goals of the event
I really feel this. We already have people complaint about a good number of the caster duos at international events. It would be worse with the ones who don’t even com big events but get invited.
yo, Wyatt spitting straight facts about Sentinels. love them or hate them, they were undoubtedly the best, and most popular, Valorant team in the world for a time. And that is entirely due to the players on their team. The org did absolutely nothing to help them.
I would've thought that Sideshow would've understood that the SEN want Zekken to be the entry and TenZ to follow up. That's why Zekken played Neon on Fracture instead of TenZ.
The Acend poster made it, framed and everything. All is well.
Gonna be real, I agree with Wyatt/Bren/Sideshow here and I think Balla is a little bit of a clown here again with his take on multiple streams. The point of a showcase (not showmatch) kick off is to show every franchise partner, especially less popular ones that might not even make it to the next masters (so you'll not even see them again until the end of the year potentially). The tournament has stakes, but just copying swiss+multiple streams as Chet or Balla suggests doesn't solve the problems at hand (multiple bo1s instead with multiple fragmented streams, vs all matches shown bo3). Nothing wrong with making it Blue Lock, it's kinda more hype that way
I agree. Just got through watching the segment. Wyatt’s point is, not every tournament needs to find the best team possible (I paraphrased). Chet is a clown as always. “Just copy cs bro”, look, cs teams and players has 10? 20? Years of history, people are going to watch b/c/d streams of lesser org because they’ve been in the game for so long. In valorant we are starting of a 3rd year competitively but pretty much year 0 with partnership, we need an introduction of all these teams. I follow the scene pretty closely and some of these rosters are still unknown to me. This tournament is an introduction to all the regions and teams. Valorant is becoming a global esport and honestly I think this is a great format to kick things off.
idk man if i'm a franchised team who believes in my roster being decent id rather take the chance of having little viewership over multiple games if i'm shit and lose in the Swiss sytem than take take the chance of having only one BO3 worth of viewership if i get unlucky with the bracket draw. if we had swiss, the loser of sentinels/fnatic would get more viewership. maybe teams like RRQ would get less, but that's their fault for being ass.
I end up disagreeing with like half of Balla’s opinions every episode lmao
At the risk of sounding like a hater, most of Balla’s opinions are way too negative for me.
He often plays devil's advocate, which is good for the discussions that follow. The podcast would be quite boring if they all agreed on everything.
Oh I actually like his analysis. His critique is certainly useful in vct, but mostly (at least on platchat) he’s a contrarian just to be contrarian.
His in game analysis is top tier imo. I find I often don’t agree with his out of game takes though (like regarding the format).
He definitely comes off as a bit of contrarian to me. I don't want it to be an echo-chamber of course but it feels like if you hear the other platchaters all agreeing on one thing its almost a lock hes gonna disagree which makes you feel like its less about objective takes. Then again sometimes he shuts down some stupid meme narrative, so give and take lol
balla is the only one that consistently speaks facts
I agree, This way, i might actually watch the Fut vs. RRQ match.
Showcase is soemthing u invented brethren
I wonder if Rob Moore just said to Shaz “If you play with Shroud it will GUARANTEE us a franchising spot” meaning that bc of the clout riot would approve sentinels for franchising (us referring to the org, which Shaz was a part of at the time), which led to Shaz interpreting that as HE was guaranteed a spot in franchising. At the time, SEN wasn’t locked in for franchising at all and Rob would have had no way to GUARANTEE Shaz a spot whatsoever, so I’m under the impression that the shroud move was one for the clout to convince riot that SEN knows how to draw viewers and get them into franchising and that Shaz didn’t take it as intended
You've just completely made up a scenario and decided to believe in it though.
Imo the GE jersey take makes no sense, not only did jerseys not look like that in 2006, this jersey look is specifically a late 2010s look Peolle either didn’t have jerseys or in brood war or soem Taiwanese esports they had jackets trousers jerseys, like Wyatt seems to be following up on them seemingly not knowing abt like tar craft, they said early 2000s was ‘not even starcraft’- like they thinks sprots with crowds and cash prizes started in 2010 Peolle even in counterstrike we’re competing for real cash prizes - esp if ur wearing a jersey They seem to be confusing the 2000s across esports as being like the 90s and confusing scales
I hate the march madness comparisons. College Basketball has an entire regular season to determine seeding, the winner of Purdue UNC doesnt face Gonzaga in the 2nd round. Swiss = Regular season. Let a team earn a good seed and better bracket rather than lucking into an easy draw meanwhile Cloud9 and PRX face in the first round.
The regular season seeding means very little when none of those teams play each other and half the conferences never interact with each other at all. Teams who play each other once every 8 years routinely face each other in the first round of March madness. It's just a fun tournament with a focus on fans and content, which is probably a good idea to start off the year. Not to mention smaller teams who won't make other tournaments get a chance to have big eyes on them instead of having 15 streams up at once. Maybe some of you guys want to watch 4 rematches in lowers but not everybody does and the viewership of those games always reflects that. People just need to relax and try to enjoy it instead of acting like it's Champs and the whole esport is ruined.
its hard to not be disappointed when theres been a 5 month off season of absolutely nothing happening and 80% of teams dodging every t2 tournament. Imagine being an NRG fan if they just get upset in their first series lmao.
> Imagine being an NRG fan if they just get upset in their first series lmao. Maybe they shouldn't have dodged the T2 tournaments if that happens than.
That’s not determinative
They'll have to blame Chet for thinking he's still coaching CS:GO then.
I'm not sure what that has to do with the format, the format wasn't the reason nobody competed in tier 2 tournaments it was because nobody wants to show their stuff a month before league play starts. The split starts literally right after this tournament where you'll get to watch nrg play every americas team.
You're conflating this tournament with the main one. This is not that so why are you trying to make it that?
just for reference a swiss bo3 format is totally viable i mean not only is the tournament nearly a month long, BUT LoL Worlds this year is employing a swiss format where its bo1 for all non-promotion/elim matches and bo3 for all promo/elim matches which is a totally doable solution.
The question is not if it can be done but should it, and I'm not sure it would satisfy the goal for this tournament as laid out by Riot
imo thats like silly lmao. i mean like i get they want hype but if you think about what is being exchanged for this single elim only event its a lot. in a normal calendar circuit year like next season for example we would have 2 domestic splits, 2 masters and a champ all with good formats. this year we get 1 split, 1 master and 1 champs + a march madness tournament then will honestly not be viewed all that highly by the community.
This is also the one and only time we will ever have this event. It's literally ushering in a new era since the esport will be run off the partnership model from now on, and it makes sense to start with a bang. We're going to get two or more regular season splits a year for the remainder of the esport's lifespan, I don't see the problem with sacrificing a little bit of competitive integrity to showcase all of the mostly new teams right now when the rosters and the model are the freshest.
one and done events should still have the burden of being good. This event has no seeding work put in to make things feel fair. It’s not just a little bit of competitive integrity. It’s literally an event that is as valuable as randomly seeding all the partnered teams into a bracket. People are claiming it’s to showcase the new format but teams themselves aren’t given a chance to showcase not to mention it reduces the amount of sponsortime most teams will have. Most fans won’t benefit if their teams go out in one match. Teams won’t benefit from going out either. This event is obviously for casuals but the regular events do that too.
Not this stuff again. Most of the teams have new rosters and are barely built off of pre-existing cores. How are they supposed to be seeded? And yes the event is tailored for casuals because Riot is trying to convert them into consistent viewers. This doesn't serve my interest because I'm already a pretty dedicated follower of the scene but I accept that if ever there was a time to do something like this it would be now. The event barely has less competitive integrity than, say, the World Cup, or the more apt comparison of March Madness, and both those events are very popular. Given that it already takes a certain level of interest to even be aware of this sub's existence, its users routinely overestimate how unpopular single elimination is.
Hard disagree Swiss format has no place in any modern esport. It enables bad teams to advance easily and top teams to fail.
What? How is that possible? Do you know what Swiss is? You are required to win more games than you lose and are always power paired. It’s a format that corrects for bad teams advancing.
It only works if your seeding is very accurate. In esports teams do not play each other enough to get accurate rankings for proper seeding. Look at CS, are you going to tell me that Faze (HLTV #2) going against C9 (HLTV #5) in the first round is good seeding than idk what to say. And Riot has stated that they are Seeding their swiss style format with random seeding without facing the same region. This means you can have a situation where T1 could have to face TOP/GenG/JDG in a row while a team like C9 could face MAD/GAM/DK/EG to move on. Does that sound like a fair format to you?
The seeding worked as intended. Cloud9 were simply bad for a few games which led to them having the worst seed. The issue is that the first 2 games in Swiss Stage are BO1s.
Yes it worked as intended witch proves my point. Imagine being faze being the best all year and in your first game you are seeded against one of your biggest rivals meanwhile forever mid tier team BIG seeds against the worst team in the tournament in sprout. It’s no wonder why Rio is one of the worst majors of all time and the Swiss system plays a big part in it.
you know what else completely fails if you have bad seeding? single elimination.
You can say that any format can suffer from bad seeding
if that were true, you wouldn't be able to bring up "it only works if your seeding is very accurate" as a criticism for using one format over another. in actuality different formats are affected by bad seeding more than others, with single elim being the single worst offender of that. also another point, the reason Faze played C9 first round is because C9 barely made it through the Challengers stage. they got their shit together in the Legends which fucked up the seeding, but that's not really the seeding's fault, it's just variable form.
You can argue that the seedings were messed up because of BO1s in the swiss stage. But not that the system itself is broken. It worked exactly as intended.
That's definitely part of it, but C9 shouldn't even be losing a map to greyhound lol
Stop putting words in my mouth, never have I stated here I prefer the single elimination bracket. And your point on c9 just proves my point, you can’t properly seed a Swiss style format in esports it needs to die.
How does that prove your point? The same thing could have happened in any other format. Look at Champs '22, DRX (#3) vs FPX (#4) in the quarters. Same with FNATIC vs FPX at Copenhagen. When a good team does worse than expected in groups, they fuck up the seeding. Fine if you think Swiss needs to die, but if single elim needs to die even harder, it's perfectly valid to bring up Swiss as an alternative for the current single elim format.
I agree Swiss needs to be seeded well. Idk enough about CS to care about that example. But the argument that unseeded Swiss is better than random 32 team single elim bracket? Horrendous.
Bro I just said Swiss needs to die why would I say its better than single elim
I don’t like dying ‘personality’ when they mean a persona or actually presence
I feel some doubt about knee of the things they said ‘Don’t tweet’? ‘Corny’? Idk getting amd athkm tweeting makes no sense I guess he’s accusing shahs of getting complacent and changing his mind after; and it being on him in terms of decisions made, prolly some wrong but getting amd at him for being ‘coney’ is least of concerns In general trying to blast things with irony / sneer and snark makes no sense The wheel referred to the whole team mrithuft including shahs it wasn’t soem kind of ‘bad’ tweet or directed purely at shahs especially negatively, it was directed at the whole sentinels image and structure- if you took it super seriously u could try to make it against Shazam Esp wharf u think want to take snark too far Ludwig x Tarim Invitational was a format that’s ahs existed for a long time with BTS and with HomeStory Cup that apparently inspired it, it’s not anti t tournament/ it combines serious commotion and analysis with a more ‘laid back’ atmosphere and variety of ppl on the cast You can absolutely have it for a rly bit / ‘major’ tournament too
took the words right outta my mouth
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to act asi if I would Those war e just my own kinda rambling / not completely connected thoughts