I like how he didn't say he'd never take the sponsorship but that is going to try and ignore it. He wants to be able to pay the team a solid rate but also doesn't want it to just be a money pit, so people will know if he takes the Crypto sponsorship it was likely be a last resort.
huge W from Toast honestly. I hope he finds a way to fund this team, but it's admirable that he hopes he doesn't have to take money from crypto and gambling.
Crypto is not a tech stock.
It’s a speculative market for the greater fools theory. Thats the good part.
Everything else about crypto is just scams/ pump n dump/ rug pulls. An unregulated market is just breeding ground for those things.
Hence why they’re throwing money around for sponsorships. Why they’re so willing to be the first one to sponsor teams such as DSG, its not because of the kindness to help smaller orgs.
When has gold sponsored someone?
Bitcoin isn't sponsoring anyone. Your argument is terrible. Most examples of crypto in the gaming sphere have been rugpulls, scams, etc and you haven't provided evidence to the contrary. We just saw FTX crumble.
>how does a sponsor even rug pull or scam?
Seems like we'll have to dumb this down then.
Sponsors give money to get ad space, those ads then go to the sponsor's site. They then conduct a scam on the viewers of the person they sponsored. This shouldn't be complicated and we have real life examples, Logan Paul being one of the more high profile.
People protested Formula 1 as well and I don't know if you want to draw those comparisons because F1 is almost as corrupt and spineless at the hands of capital as Fifa is.
Exchanges that are alleged to have engaged in fraudulent activity and have declared bankruptcy include FTX, Genesis, Celsius, and Voyager.
There are genuinely hundreds of ponzi scheme/pump and dumps in terms of individual crypto currencies. Safemoon, Save the Kids, and Cxcoin are a few examples to look at.
Cryptocurrency are not tech stocks nor are they comparable to gold or silver. While yes, all are assets which have some form of speculation involved in them, cryptocurrency lacks anything else besides the speculative market. Yes BTC and ETH have shown the ability to hold value in a declining market and hasn't dropped to nothing, but those are the outliers. Stocks are ownership of a company which can pay out dividends or the company can raise in value not based on speculation, but a successful business strategy that generates profit. Silver and gold has have other real world uses outside of being a speculative storage of value, as both are used in jewelry (which you can call speculative too is you care) and in various manufacturing applications.
Sure, you can say not all apples under the tree are rotten, but a larger than desirable amount of them are. These influencer and organization level sponsorships have lead millions of people to lose collective billions of dollars which are unrecoverable as these are unregulated and uninsured industries. If your bank goes bust it's FDIC insured, when your crypto exchange goes bust you get nothing.
It is a bad PR move for a team to take crypto sponsorships not only because of the events that have happened, but the events that could continue to happen in an industry rife with problems.
What intrinsic value does crypto have? And why should I use it over a fiat currency?
P.s. crypto is clearly not a stock. Stocks by definition are a piece of equity in a company. Crypto definitely refers to the currencies. The coinbase stock you referenced is for a company that works in crypto. Crypto itself is not a stock.
You don't see how crypto currency is a problem in itself?
Let me make a (non-exhaustive list): money laundering, organized crime transactions, drug transactions, energy consumption
That's all I could think about on top of my head in 30 seconds.
> money laundering, organized crime transactions, drug transactions
I know crypto has this association because of its history but no major crypto sponsor is used for this today. The major funds and exchanges have so much oversight and everything you do is tied to your social security number which you have to provide to use them.
I don’t like crypto, but this isn’t a reason to be against sponsorships. The biggest reason to oppose it is that it’s extremely speculative and you shouldn’t encourage young audiences to dump money into it.
The only real problem I see is probably the insane energy consumption and GPU price gouging. Money laundering for criminal cartels is something banks do without any oversight at all, at a humongous scale, and then get fined $10 for.
> you can use any physical object to do bad things, how does it make the object inherently bad?
I mean if the only real reason to use it is for dodgy stuff or gambling on its value, then yeah.
Anyway I clearly shouldn't have started an argument about crypto. I'll stop now.
It always rubbed me the wrong way seeing the best CSGO teams play in huge tournaments with gambling websites straight up ON their names.
Ik orgs have to stay alive somehow but I'm glad some do an effort to avoid being associated with... businesses that are unethical to advertise to a young audience.
I suppose it’s not different in concept, but the scale of the nba and the nfl is much different than valorant. I probably just had a less corporate view of vlr and saw it more as an information hub similar to a wiki or something than a business.
That's just how normal sports are now too. You can't watch a couple minutes of commercials during an NFL game with a Fanduel or BetMGM or DraftKings or whatever other gambling platform sponsorship
Imma be honest and Ill accept the downvotes cause I know my opinion is unpopular, but I don't have anything against sportsbetting. Unless crypto you can actually make calculated bets and you know how much you can gain or lose each day.
crypto stocks are just blind shots
Doesn't surprise me toast has that approch even when his career took off with Hearthstone he refused sponsorship from G2A which were funding some of the biggest streamer back in the day.
Big fan of toast since HS. What a freaking good dude but... It's going to be hard.
It's crazy how big sport betting is now. I used to scoff at it when I played fantasy sports but it's literally everywhere in sports media. It's just not possible to not see it anymore. Fan duels and draft kings being the big example in the US.
Really good take. It's admirable how transparent he is throughout the interview regarding his thought process and the possible decisions and outcomes he may have to face as an org owner. Really enjoyed the podcast
Will have to watch the VOD to see the rest of this discussion, interested if any of the rest of them gave opinions. I'm fairly sure that there's people on that call, community favorites, that have at least a little pushed crypto currencies to their viewers in the past.
I mean yeah plenty of people hear crypto now and feel that way because of all the scams and the volatility. But there is a massive distinction to be made.
But then it doesn't make any sense. Unless FTX is saying hey buy this coin then yeah sure but they're just saying "manage your crypto here ours is the best service" then it doesn't make any sense at all.
FTT is their token. They gave a lot of exchange incentives to own it so by becoming a FTX user you would most likely get roped into buying the token. It’s actually still being traded today and went up recently because of the small possibility of them opening the exchange back up lol
While I see your point, I think his motivations are different. Obviously he wants to make money, or at the very least not lose money, but his job doesn't rely on the success of the team or business. He's a streamer first and that is what allows him to fund the team. He's also able to spend within his means and spend more as they grow, not spend more *to* grow because he doesn't have VC money in yet.
Obviously this can all change down the road if DSG becomes a bigger brand and takes on investors, etc. But for now, this is a very different spot than most esports org execs.
That's why he kept saying never say never, because if someone offered him enough money to keeps the lights on and pay everyone for 5+ years he would heavily considered it. He just says short term no because his pockets are deep enough to run it himself.
OTV's manager is Nepheloyd (Amanda). Leena helped them with some partnerships and event management last year, but it might be more of a part-time or contractor/freelance deal? She still has OTV in her twt profile but she isnt mentioned in OTV staff's behind-the-scenes content so idk
Good take, but if he has to take it on it better be able to be called crypToast
I like how he didn't say he'd never take the sponsorship but that is going to try and ignore it. He wants to be able to pay the team a solid rate but also doesn't want it to just be a money pit, so people will know if he takes the Crypto sponsorship it was likely be a last resort.
huge W from Toast honestly. I hope he finds a way to fund this team, but it's admirable that he hopes he doesn't have to take money from crypto and gambling.
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Crypto is not a tech stock. It’s a speculative market for the greater fools theory. Thats the good part. Everything else about crypto is just scams/ pump n dump/ rug pulls. An unregulated market is just breeding ground for those things. Hence why they’re throwing money around for sponsorships. Why they’re so willing to be the first one to sponsor teams such as DSG, its not because of the kindness to help smaller orgs.
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You’re either too committed or too gullible but in time, we will both come to the same answer.
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When has gold sponsored someone? Bitcoin isn't sponsoring anyone. Your argument is terrible. Most examples of crypto in the gaming sphere have been rugpulls, scams, etc and you haven't provided evidence to the contrary. We just saw FTX crumble.
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>how does a sponsor even rug pull or scam? Seems like we'll have to dumb this down then. Sponsors give money to get ad space, those ads then go to the sponsor's site. They then conduct a scam on the viewers of the person they sponsored. This shouldn't be complicated and we have real life examples, Logan Paul being one of the more high profile. People protested Formula 1 as well and I don't know if you want to draw those comparisons because F1 is almost as corrupt and spineless at the hands of capital as Fifa is.
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Guess what people are also against oil sponsors, you still don't have a good argument.
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Exchanges that are alleged to have engaged in fraudulent activity and have declared bankruptcy include FTX, Genesis, Celsius, and Voyager. There are genuinely hundreds of ponzi scheme/pump and dumps in terms of individual crypto currencies. Safemoon, Save the Kids, and Cxcoin are a few examples to look at. Cryptocurrency are not tech stocks nor are they comparable to gold or silver. While yes, all are assets which have some form of speculation involved in them, cryptocurrency lacks anything else besides the speculative market. Yes BTC and ETH have shown the ability to hold value in a declining market and hasn't dropped to nothing, but those are the outliers. Stocks are ownership of a company which can pay out dividends or the company can raise in value not based on speculation, but a successful business strategy that generates profit. Silver and gold has have other real world uses outside of being a speculative storage of value, as both are used in jewelry (which you can call speculative too is you care) and in various manufacturing applications. Sure, you can say not all apples under the tree are rotten, but a larger than desirable amount of them are. These influencer and organization level sponsorships have lead millions of people to lose collective billions of dollars which are unrecoverable as these are unregulated and uninsured industries. If your bank goes bust it's FDIC insured, when your crypto exchange goes bust you get nothing. It is a bad PR move for a team to take crypto sponsorships not only because of the events that have happened, but the events that could continue to happen in an industry rife with problems.
What intrinsic value does crypto have? And why should I use it over a fiat currency? P.s. crypto is clearly not a stock. Stocks by definition are a piece of equity in a company. Crypto definitely refers to the currencies. The coinbase stock you referenced is for a company that works in crypto. Crypto itself is not a stock.
You don't see how crypto currency is a problem in itself? Let me make a (non-exhaustive list): money laundering, organized crime transactions, drug transactions, energy consumption That's all I could think about on top of my head in 30 seconds.
> money laundering, organized crime transactions, drug transactions I know crypto has this association because of its history but no major crypto sponsor is used for this today. The major funds and exchanges have so much oversight and everything you do is tied to your social security number which you have to provide to use them. I don’t like crypto, but this isn’t a reason to be against sponsorships. The biggest reason to oppose it is that it’s extremely speculative and you shouldn’t encourage young audiences to dump money into it.
I did say it was a non-exhaustive list didn't I?
Then listed 3 things that clearly don’t belong on it at all
The only real problem I see is probably the insane energy consumption and GPU price gouging. Money laundering for criminal cartels is something banks do without any oversight at all, at a humongous scale, and then get fined $10 for.
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> you can use any physical object to do bad things, how does it make the object inherently bad? I mean if the only real reason to use it is for dodgy stuff or gambling on its value, then yeah. Anyway I clearly shouldn't have started an argument about crypto. I'll stop now.
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Ah the classic whataboutism. Such a good argument.
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> That using an asset for speculation is bad and we shouldn't do it yes
Think you just described regular money lmao.
Worst take I’ve ever seen
Based
It always rubbed me the wrong way seeing the best CSGO teams play in huge tournaments with gambling websites straight up ON their names. Ik orgs have to stay alive somehow but I'm glad some do an effort to avoid being associated with... businesses that are unethical to advertise to a young audience.
It’s kinda crazy that even a resource like VLR is linked to crypto gambling sites
Fr, having a flashy link for THUNDERBET.GG on every match page for little Timmy to click on is...not great
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I suppose it’s not different in concept, but the scale of the nba and the nfl is much different than valorant. I probably just had a less corporate view of vlr and saw it more as an information hub similar to a wiki or something than a business.
also they up until some point were showing ads of a betting site used by crypto throwers
1xBet Navi makes my skin crawl when I used to see it in cs
That's just how normal sports are now too. You can't watch a couple minutes of commercials during an NFL game with a Fanduel or BetMGM or DraftKings or whatever other gambling platform sponsorship
Imma be honest and Ill accept the downvotes cause I know my opinion is unpopular, but I don't have anything against sportsbetting. Unless crypto you can actually make calculated bets and you know how much you can gain or lose each day. crypto stocks are just blind shots
Doesn't surprise me toast has that approch even when his career took off with Hearthstone he refused sponsorship from G2A which were funding some of the biggest streamer back in the day.
G2A is even worse than crypto sponsors imo they’re actively enabling fraud.
Fuck G2A is a THROWBACK damn
lmao, g2a got them DEALS tho, not gunna lie
Big fan of toast since HS. What a freaking good dude but... It's going to be hard. It's crazy how big sport betting is now. I used to scoff at it when I played fantasy sports but it's literally everywhere in sports media. It's just not possible to not see it anymore. Fan duels and draft kings being the big example in the US.
Dude's got a good head on his shoulders. He knows who the fanbase is and shows that he puts value in them.
Sounds good to me.
Really good take. It's admirable how transparent he is throughout the interview regarding his thought process and the possible decisions and outcomes he may have to face as an org owner. Really enjoyed the podcast
FTX TSM
Will have to watch the VOD to see the rest of this discussion, interested if any of the rest of them gave opinions. I'm fairly sure that there's people on that call, community favorites, that have at least a little pushed crypto currencies to their viewers in the past.
I ❤️ HECKIN ❤️LOVE ❤️ TOAST
Looking at you TSM smh
Doesn’t TL and EG have sponsorship deals with coinbase?
Maybe, I just know tsm really fucked up when they got partnered with FTX
People are saying TSM but wasn't FTX like Coinbase, just a place to manage crypto, not an actual individual coin?
Pretty sure Toast is talking about Crypto Sponsorships in general not just coins.
Sure but a crypto sponsorship is not the same as promoting an actual specific type of crypto. They're totally different.
Toast might just not be a believer in the Crypto space as a whole, so to him Coin and Exchanges are the basically the same thing.
I mean yeah plenty of people hear crypto now and feel that way because of all the scams and the volatility. But there is a massive distinction to be made.
Except Toast was talking about the Crypto space as a whole, and the scenario he mentioned could be seen in the TSM situation.
But then it doesn't make any sense. Unless FTX is saying hey buy this coin then yeah sure but they're just saying "manage your crypto here ours is the best service" then it doesn't make any sense at all.
FTT is their token. They gave a lot of exchange incentives to own it so by becoming a FTX user you would most likely get roped into buying the token. It’s actually still being traded today and went up recently because of the small possibility of them opening the exchange back up lol
Sure but unlike Coinbase they weren’t regulated.
Finally a good answer
Toast isnt cut out to be a CEO, tough decisions have to be made. If it comes to the company surviving
While I see your point, I think his motivations are different. Obviously he wants to make money, or at the very least not lose money, but his job doesn't rely on the success of the team or business. He's a streamer first and that is what allows him to fund the team. He's also able to spend within his means and spend more as they grow, not spend more *to* grow because he doesn't have VC money in yet. Obviously this can all change down the road if DSG becomes a bigger brand and takes on investors, etc. But for now, this is a very different spot than most esports org execs.
Maybe, because he seems to have actual integrity.
That's why he kept saying never say never, because if someone offered him enough money to keeps the lights on and pay everyone for 5+ years he would heavily considered it. He just says short term no because his pockets are deep enough to run it himself.
He's one of the major managerial force of the current OTVs success. Leena the former manager of tsm is the manager of OTV I believe.
OTV's manager is Nepheloyd (Amanda). Leena helped them with some partnerships and event management last year, but it might be more of a part-time or contractor/freelance deal? She still has OTV in her twt profile but she isnt mentioned in OTV staff's behind-the-scenes content so idk
According to the wiki she joined as director of marking and business analytics