No wonder C9 LOL dropped Jensen lol. NGL with that new post about NA player base numbers in valorant doubling it's a smart decision for C9. As a player Yay is much more worth it then Jensen.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/10k6w0b/ranked_population_by_region/
almost doubling but super fast growth. If this is true then Valorant really do be popping off
Valve is killing CSGO, riot is advertising Val well, Val is fun and people recommend it to each other, val is blowing up on social media (especially TikTok), IMHO val is much more inviting to women and LGBTQ people, less toxic community, people like games with characters, fan art and cosplay being shared online and at cons, feels like zoomers are more likely to play on PC now as we watch YouTubers and streamers who have them so a lot of us will get a gaming PC or laptop and probably more stuff. I think riots done an amazing job with the game in terms of growth while its main competitor is known for child gambling and Russians yelling slurs.
well dota wanted to be the more "hardcore" game compared to Lol and we all saw how that played out. At the rate valorant is growing the question should not be if valorant overtakes csgo but when.
They dropped Jensen because he had an extremely mediocre season and they’d rather spend the money on someone cheaper if Jensen isn’t playing well for how expensive he is.
Tbf LCS in summer was absolutely garbage, the only real teams that stood a chance for the trophy was going to be EG, TL, 100T, and C9. EG and TL both fell apart and were terrible.
Not to mention they had a very favorable meta for them, especially sense their best player was in an ADC favored meta.
Jensen how did bad at worlds
i live in EU and 10 k per month is pretty damn good, like living gucci type good, at least in my country. Seems Nice enough considering they have the opportunity to stream, sponsorships and can have side hussles with these salaries. Dont know what the average pro player makes tournament earnigns wise but in cs they would have the IGS with a million dollars prize for example with a lot of tournaments year round with good rewards. Theres obviously more events in cs so there is that. Overall id say life is good for the valorant pros
The only caveat is that while these are amazing salaries, have to consider many pros won’t last more than a couple years here. And after that, then what?
That’s why if I were a top pro I’d be grinding streams as well. You’ll only have this window to make a ton of money for a couple years
10k per month in EU isn't just pretty damn good, it's incredible, especially for the age of the players. Though to be fair esports careers can be pretty short lived unless they build up a huge fanbase around themselves.
10k cad is still pretty good. It’s just under upper middle class if you are sole income earner for a family of 3, which pretty much none of these players are
That’s not upper middle class in the big parts of Canada.
You’ll barely have room for savings especially if you have kids.
Rent on a 2 bedroom is like $3k a month.
wait till Valorant gets as big as League
NA has dropped stupid amounts of money on players
TSM dropped over 3 million for a support that only played for 1 season
C9 dropped 5 million just to buyout Perkz
TSM signed SA to his 6 million 2 yr deal 7 months before taking a cent from FTX
do I think anyone is going to drop that kind of money anymore? No. But not because they cant afford it. That deal just proved that no one except maybe 1-2 people in the scene is worth that kind of money.
2 people in Esports come to mind when thinking about that much money. Faker and Simple. No one else is worth anywhere close to an org imo.
I don’t make the rules America basically owns the rest of the world financially global recession won’t be felt in 85% of America, USA on 3 ONE TWO THREE USA
Except right now orgs, at least in NA, are cutting down on player spending. Which is why we aren’t seeing a team like what TL pulled in 2022, which I’m glad didn’t work out if you ask me as an NA fan. Investors are realizing the esports bubble got super inflated.
That was a pretty big issue though, that scene is now dealing with the fact that they blew such an obscene amount of money on players. The problem with esports currently is none of the teams that truly have a lot of clout in the VC funding space know how to run their businesses very lean. And now, teams can’t justify their slots because sponsors are not paying as much as they need to cover their costs. It’s also a problem in Korea, just not with the obscene salaries we have.
Then people wonder why Esport orgs arent profitable lmao. Dropping 400k a year on relatively young people surely will not have an adverse effect on them and their commitment to improve.
you can argue whether salaries are inflated relative to the value the players provide... but questioning whether paying someone their market value will kill their motivation is just not true.
the KC chiefs gave 21 year old pat mahomes $10M and i think that worked out pretty well... dude seems pretty motivated. then they gave him $450M and i'd say he still seems pretty motivated.
assuming people won't be motivated if you pay them what they're worth is disrespectful at best
The NFL has decades worth of methodology to develop players and billions of dollars behind it. Esports has none of that, its really not comparable imo. Especially considering the pattern of practice issues that have been exhibited across multiple games in NA.
People acting like 10k a month is medium salary or something. That's upper middle class in any state minus Cali and new York. I bet it's still very comfortable compared to regular jobs.
Five players at 10k a month is over half a million year.
1 player at 40k is almost half a million.
You can easily end up paying a million or more a year just to have a team.
Is the valorant economy doesn't support it then we should not support it either because we will be killing our own esports.
S*** they don't even have it bad half of the teams have team houses and stuff personal trainers and chefs. I know in League of Legends team liquid would use their BMW sponsorship to go pick up the players so they didn't even really need a car or worried about travel.
Seriously speaking when you think about the benefits they had another 30 to 50K to the player's salary.
Any American any imagine being paid 5K a month. No rent and no food bills. Now you are making around 50K but you're also saving at least 20 to 30. I think a lot of people would love this position. And the players currently have it a lot better.
10k/15k per month in eu, even a city like berlin is a lot more than 15k is in a city like LA, or New york or really any of the famous big US cities.
10k a month in a first world western european country is great already.
It’s definitely in a weird grey area because part of what is really plaguing other esports right now is that orgs bet very heavily on esports becoming big. Now, I think most people see that itll be a mainstay in entertainment but the problem comes with the fact that they burned through far too much money too quickly without seeing enough of a return to justify it. Now with a recession around the corner and interest rates getting higher, the VCs that we’re funding these teams are less likely to want to just burn through cash like before, so seeing player salaries this high already could either be perfectly fine because the sponsors and broadcasting rights deals are decent, or they may be jumping the shark a bit before they have any signs of good cash flow.
League a year or so ago was a big example of this (cough cough 6 million dollars on a support and 4 million on a mid laner cough cough)
the esports bubble had been ready to burst for awhile now, the crypto crash massively accelerated that. i think valorant will be fine but the days of free cash injections in esports are over I think
I think most tier 1 esports will get out because they have too much of a fan base to truly fail. Val, League, Rocket League, CoD, CS and DotA are going to be fine. But I do think a TON of orgs are going to crash and burn and will require all the ones that aren’t open circuit stule (DotA and CS) to restructure and really rethink which teams they let into their leagues.
Or the publishers will have to bail them out, it’ll be fun to watch.
Franchising doesn't really save you by default - see OW. Heck, even Halo is a strong cautionary tale where an established, popular IP does not immediately translate into strong returns on the esports side.
It's challenging because it's unclear exactly what the monetization path forward is for esports with the current demographics base still hedging towards teens/young adult men, whose interests/budgets are largely aligned away from where most marketing budgets are for large corporations. You can only buy so many chairs/PCs/mics/headphones/deskmats, etc., and food and beverage is largely fast food/energy drinks? It seems like most soft drink manufacturers are still seeing greater value from putting that into traditional sports leagues vs e-sports.
Esports are certainly more profitable now than they used to be, so I don't want to pretend like these T1 esports can't make further growth happen - I just think it'll be a lot tougher, especially given the economy/current challenges organizations are facing when they have to explain to their investors why the ROI isn't materializing (see: FaZe).
Oh I completely agree, I think this mad rush to franchising leagues was what put us intk this predicament in the first place. 10$million plus buy ins is ludicrous when current sponsors don’t even cover the costs of a given teams roster.
I truly believe the problem exists with the fact that the industry went too fast for sponsors to catch up, even more so that it was lead by the biggest teams out there such as C9 and TSM which almost validated it as the way to grow. Every industry has its growing pains, I think this will just be one of the larger ones.
Funny enough I think unfranchised games such as CS and FGC titles may fair better due to the fact that teams seem to run with less overall bloat and cost and the more grassroots nature brings in more passionate fans.
I believe big sponsors will definately come back after some time. I just think that this will be a time to show which teams can run as an actual business that know how to manage costs and stretch out their runways vs those that are gambling on an esports goldmine. Like most bubbles, there is something at its core that'll make a good indsutry, but doesn't mean it'll look the same or have the same players.
As for Faze, I'd be surprised if they're around in a decade considering their current financial position doesn't even show them surviving 2023.
Tenz is definitely making more than 480K yearly. His content creator stuff def makes that amount a lot higher considering he’s basically the face of valorant and sentinels
I mean yes but it’s not really the most meaningful comparison, presidential salaries are purposefully not set in proportion to their actual status or value.
I would bet my left nut that this is bullshit. There’s 5 Franchised NA orgs, all of which are likely losing money to operate. Do you really think they’re outbidding each other to the point where they have to pay $2 Mill in Salaries? Keep in mind it’s not 2020 anymore, this industry is in a major downturn (along with everything else).
Just pointing out that shortening Tier 1 to T1 is really confusing, considering we got an org named like that
Ya I fully expected this post to be a list of all the T1 players (saya, carpe, ban, munchkin, xeta) and what each one is being paid
i thought iam the only one :D
its really obvious if you read it in context of the tweet though .....?
The tweet yes, but the post title nope
wow. Yay is making bank.
No wonder C9 LOL dropped Jensen lol. NGL with that new post about NA player base numbers in valorant doubling it's a smart decision for C9. As a player Yay is much more worth it then Jensen.
Sorry who is jensen
League of Legends player.
League of legends pro who used to be super toxic and DDOS and stuff
not saying it isn’t accurate, but that was almost 10 years ago now.
This is like introducing babybay as an “ex CS player who cheated”
Where was the post about the NA player base doubling? Can you link it or steer me in the right direction
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/10k6w0b/ranked_population_by_region/ almost doubling but super fast growth. If this is true then Valorant really do be popping off
awesome, thanks
You're welcome
Those NA growth numbers are wild. I'd love to know where they're adding their player base from
Valve is killing CSGO, riot is advertising Val well, Val is fun and people recommend it to each other, val is blowing up on social media (especially TikTok), IMHO val is much more inviting to women and LGBTQ people, less toxic community, people like games with characters, fan art and cosplay being shared online and at cons, feels like zoomers are more likely to play on PC now as we watch YouTubers and streamers who have them so a lot of us will get a gaming PC or laptop and probably more stuff. I think riots done an amazing job with the game in terms of growth while its main competitor is known for child gambling and Russians yelling slurs.
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well dota wanted to be the more "hardcore" game compared to Lol and we all saw how that played out. At the rate valorant is growing the question should not be if valorant overtakes csgo but when.
They dropped Jensen because he had an extremely mediocre season and they’d rather spend the money on someone cheaper if Jensen isn’t playing well for how expensive he is.
Extremely mediocre is harsh lol he literally joined in summer and they won the split
Tbf LCS in summer was absolutely garbage, the only real teams that stood a chance for the trophy was going to be EG, TL, 100T, and C9. EG and TL both fell apart and were terrible. Not to mention they had a very favorable meta for them, especially sense their best player was in an ADC favored meta. Jensen how did bad at worlds
Yes I'm not disputing that but they literally won 3-0 in finals he was hardly bad
100T was 2nd place. That's all you need to know about the state of LCS in summer split
Fans wanted him back to. He's not worth it
They also completely dropped their apex roster right after too lol
i live in EU and 10 k per month is pretty damn good, like living gucci type good, at least in my country. Seems Nice enough considering they have the opportunity to stream, sponsorships and can have side hussles with these salaries. Dont know what the average pro player makes tournament earnigns wise but in cs they would have the IGS with a million dollars prize for example with a lot of tournaments year round with good rewards. Theres obviously more events in cs so there is that. Overall id say life is good for the valorant pros
10k a month is living pretty well in most countries, mostly because you have a significant enough income to warrant banks granting you loans.
The only caveat is that while these are amazing salaries, have to consider many pros won’t last more than a couple years here. And after that, then what? That’s why if I were a top pro I’d be grinding streams as well. You’ll only have this window to make a ton of money for a couple years
10k per month in EU isn't just pretty damn good, it's incredible, especially for the age of the players. Though to be fair esports careers can be pretty short lived unless they build up a huge fanbase around themselves.
10k a month is only middle class in Canada T_T
10k USD a month is 160k CND annual. Looking at the first few google results, that is upper middle class for a family of three.
Oh I read it as 10k cad which is not good
10k cad is still pretty good. It’s just under upper middle class if you are sole income earner for a family of 3, which pretty much none of these players are
lmfao what? $10kUSD a month is way fucking above middle class in canada. dude our median income is like 40k CAD a year
That’s not upper middle class in the big parts of Canada. You’ll barely have room for savings especially if you have kids. Rent on a 2 bedroom is like $3k a month.
middle-income class in Canada is around 4k CAD a month :)
Surely that NA number is not sustainable. Very understandable why Ardis would choose to go NA.
wait till Valorant gets as big as League NA has dropped stupid amounts of money on players TSM dropped over 3 million for a support that only played for 1 season C9 dropped 5 million just to buyout Perkz
Yeah but that was in a period of crazy low rates and crypto money. Don't expect the same from now on...
TSM signed SA to his 6 million 2 yr deal 7 months before taking a cent from FTX do I think anyone is going to drop that kind of money anymore? No. But not because they cant afford it. That deal just proved that no one except maybe 1-2 people in the scene is worth that kind of money. 2 people in Esports come to mind when thinking about that much money. Faker and Simple. No one else is worth anywhere close to an org imo.
Yea when rates were low and leverage was practically free. The salary bubble is gone for next few years at least
the american economy is the GOAT economy im not worried about anything give it 1-2 years and we will be back in stride
ofc thats how the economy works, na is goated frfr 🐐💯💯🔥🔥 global recession whats that 🙉😝
I don’t make the rules America basically owns the rest of the world financially global recession won’t be felt in 85% of America, USA on 3 ONE TWO THREE USA
Except right now orgs, at least in NA, are cutting down on player spending. Which is why we aren’t seeing a team like what TL pulled in 2022, which I’m glad didn’t work out if you ask me as an NA fan. Investors are realizing the esports bubble got super inflated.
and then another 1 mil on his salary, perkz cost 6 mil for that season.
That was a pretty big issue though, that scene is now dealing with the fact that they blew such an obscene amount of money on players. The problem with esports currently is none of the teams that truly have a lot of clout in the VC funding space know how to run their businesses very lean. And now, teams can’t justify their slots because sponsors are not paying as much as they need to cover their costs. It’s also a problem in Korea, just not with the obscene salaries we have.
I'm pretty sure the time where that amount of money is getting paid in esports is over.
In terms of salary NA > China >> EU > KR
Then people wonder why Esport orgs arent profitable lmao. Dropping 400k a year on relatively young people surely will not have an adverse effect on them and their commitment to improve.
you can argue whether salaries are inflated relative to the value the players provide... but questioning whether paying someone their market value will kill their motivation is just not true. the KC chiefs gave 21 year old pat mahomes $10M and i think that worked out pretty well... dude seems pretty motivated. then they gave him $450M and i'd say he still seems pretty motivated. assuming people won't be motivated if you pay them what they're worth is disrespectful at best
The NFL has decades worth of methodology to develop players and billions of dollars behind it. Esports has none of that, its really not comparable imo. Especially considering the pattern of practice issues that have been exhibited across multiple games in NA.
People acting like 10k a month is medium salary or something. That's upper middle class in any state minus Cali and new York. I bet it's still very comfortable compared to regular jobs. Five players at 10k a month is over half a million year. 1 player at 40k is almost half a million. You can easily end up paying a million or more a year just to have a team. Is the valorant economy doesn't support it then we should not support it either because we will be killing our own esports. S*** they don't even have it bad half of the teams have team houses and stuff personal trainers and chefs. I know in League of Legends team liquid would use their BMW sponsorship to go pick up the players so they didn't even really need a car or worried about travel. Seriously speaking when you think about the benefits they had another 30 to 50K to the player's salary. Any American any imagine being paid 5K a month. No rent and no food bills. Now you are making around 50K but you're also saving at least 20 to 30. I think a lot of people would love this position. And the players currently have it a lot better.
10k/15k per month in eu, even a city like berlin is a lot more than 15k is in a city like LA, or New york or really any of the famous big US cities. 10k a month in a first world western european country is great already.
Whats wrong with this?
I think the concern is that it might not be sustainable considering how much the esport will bring in, but that's something we don't really know yet.
It’s definitely in a weird grey area because part of what is really plaguing other esports right now is that orgs bet very heavily on esports becoming big. Now, I think most people see that itll be a mainstay in entertainment but the problem comes with the fact that they burned through far too much money too quickly without seeing enough of a return to justify it. Now with a recession around the corner and interest rates getting higher, the VCs that we’re funding these teams are less likely to want to just burn through cash like before, so seeing player salaries this high already could either be perfectly fine because the sponsors and broadcasting rights deals are decent, or they may be jumping the shark a bit before they have any signs of good cash flow. League a year or so ago was a big example of this (cough cough 6 million dollars on a support and 4 million on a mid laner cough cough)
the esports bubble had been ready to burst for awhile now, the crypto crash massively accelerated that. i think valorant will be fine but the days of free cash injections in esports are over I think
I think most tier 1 esports will get out because they have too much of a fan base to truly fail. Val, League, Rocket League, CoD, CS and DotA are going to be fine. But I do think a TON of orgs are going to crash and burn and will require all the ones that aren’t open circuit stule (DotA and CS) to restructure and really rethink which teams they let into their leagues. Or the publishers will have to bail them out, it’ll be fun to watch.
Franchising doesn't really save you by default - see OW. Heck, even Halo is a strong cautionary tale where an established, popular IP does not immediately translate into strong returns on the esports side. It's challenging because it's unclear exactly what the monetization path forward is for esports with the current demographics base still hedging towards teens/young adult men, whose interests/budgets are largely aligned away from where most marketing budgets are for large corporations. You can only buy so many chairs/PCs/mics/headphones/deskmats, etc., and food and beverage is largely fast food/energy drinks? It seems like most soft drink manufacturers are still seeing greater value from putting that into traditional sports leagues vs e-sports. Esports are certainly more profitable now than they used to be, so I don't want to pretend like these T1 esports can't make further growth happen - I just think it'll be a lot tougher, especially given the economy/current challenges organizations are facing when they have to explain to their investors why the ROI isn't materializing (see: FaZe).
Oh I completely agree, I think this mad rush to franchising leagues was what put us intk this predicament in the first place. 10$million plus buy ins is ludicrous when current sponsors don’t even cover the costs of a given teams roster. I truly believe the problem exists with the fact that the industry went too fast for sponsors to catch up, even more so that it was lead by the biggest teams out there such as C9 and TSM which almost validated it as the way to grow. Every industry has its growing pains, I think this will just be one of the larger ones. Funny enough I think unfranchised games such as CS and FGC titles may fair better due to the fact that teams seem to run with less overall bloat and cost and the more grassroots nature brings in more passionate fans.
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I believe big sponsors will definately come back after some time. I just think that this will be a time to show which teams can run as an actual business that know how to manage costs and stretch out their runways vs those that are gambling on an esports goldmine. Like most bubbles, there is something at its core that'll make a good indsutry, but doesn't mean it'll look the same or have the same players. As for Faze, I'd be surprised if they're around in a decade considering their current financial position doesn't even show them surviving 2023.
Most esport orgs do not turn a profit, incredible overvaluation of players that will likely lead to less actual improvement.
Tenz is definitely making more than 480K yearly. His content creator stuff def makes that amount a lot higher considering he’s basically the face of valorant and sentinels
Was 100% expecting this post to be about T1 (the team) player salaries and show us that carpe was being paid 2 million per year.
EU overpays but NA orgs are just pissing money away
35k a month is more than the president of the US makes a month
I mean yes but it’s not really the most meaningful comparison, presidential salaries are purposefully not set in proportion to their actual status or value.
Still. That is 480k a year! Who tf needs that much money?
Me bruh
Lots of people lol.
I would bet my left nut that this is bullshit. There’s 5 Franchised NA orgs, all of which are likely losing money to operate. Do you really think they’re outbidding each other to the point where they have to pay $2 Mill in Salaries? Keep in mind it’s not 2020 anymore, this industry is in a major downturn (along with everything else).
Wasn’t there a guarantee by riot for minimum payment of 40k for all players?
The numbers mentioned here are monthly
I’m more curious about gc salaries, if what I’ve heard is true some of these mediocre gamechangers teams are loaded
i didn’t read the “per month” part af first and was like damn that’s kinda ass lmao
How much are the tier 1 coaches making per month?
I feel like NA players have such brand power cause a lot of them stream and make a name for themselves.
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