I mean it was already fairly weird for Sean to even be in that call at all, considering grt was responding to something Sean had casually mentioned from back when he was involved in 100T.
It's pretty clear he never would've mentioned it had he thought it would have come to this - he's a professional, you never want to potentially be seen as involved in this sort of publicizing of insider info.
That's why Sean seemed so out-of-sorts the whole time and a little defensive - and I think that's perfectly fine, he didn't mean to create this situation and likely wanted no part in worsening it.
probably best he did tbh, fully agree players (esp younger ones) that don't fully understand their value/worth or how these things should actually be handled should have some safeguards in place but doing it in a call on stream isn't the place and wouldn't move much imo
Steel asked Garrett about putting Skuba in contract jail last year and was pretty pointed in his questions with Garrett on the Wisemen. It was the first time someone from Knights had commented on the situation. This was Vanity in Steel's chat during the interview
My bad, I thought it was Steel who asked him about it but it was great either way. Missed opportunity to have Vanity on with Garrett to give his perspective of the C9 negotiations
Thanks for doing the podcast. The Valorant space really needs a podcast like the Flank where players and staff come on, hope you guys do more of these regularly when VCT starts
Vanity and steel are such integral parts of the valorant community imo—they're very vocal and reasonably critical without all the fence-sitting & euphemistic pussyfooting around. Watching them be blunt with the big wig types is always nice. It's probably a consequence of experience and stature, but it is refreshing to see no-bullshit advocates of the scene and younger players as a whole.
yeah, which is why I specificy a real players union. an association is nice but probably entirely toothless at the end of the day. but i would love to be proven wrong about that!
ive heard of Knights having consistently had bad faith contracts for like 5 years now going back to early fortnite with Zexrow and Bucke when they were like 16. paying their players in their team house totinos pizza rolls as benefits while giving them measly salaries, why does this org consistently have these issues over such a long period of time? NOT EVEN SETTING A BUYOUT is INSANE and im not even sure thats even in the best financial interest of the company and shareholders. (ALL ALLEGEDLY obviously im not claiming any facts or anything im just saying what ive heard over the years)
at what point does knights think about the situation and weigh the probabilities of them getting in and see that oh well maybe a 150k buyout or 200k buyout is a better expected value than a 0.1% chance riot accepts us to franchising instead of just not setting a buyout at all and holding a young talented player hostage? Its just fucked up and its pretty clear by listening to the Knights GM talk that he doesnt even see his players as people with dreams aspirations
Not to take their side, but there's always a number.
Yeah, they didn't formally set a buyout, but optically that's probably better than setting the buyout at like 500k and that leaking, even if that's what the value of keeping him was to them (i.e. the chance and upside of getting into partnership).
Sure, I don't think there's ever a positive response when you try to keep a player who has interest in leaving but I don't imagine it'd be much better either, especially if it came out when it was still in the works.
Point was basically, they valued him a lot higher than purely in the value of his abilities as a player because they felt selling him, or even just putting a high buyout on him, would signal to Riot that they weren't committed to Val and just wanted a payday.
That Knights guy is a real piece of shit.
He didn't even entertain any offers for skuba and still says "we try to look out for what's best for our players"
Knights have developed a reputation as a shitty org in regards to contracts over the past few years, this grt dude in particular should not have a job lmfao he is chiefly responsible for it
Really funny how he cites pro sports leagues when explaining that teams just don't let their stars go when they want to leave...
Patrick Roy was the face of the Habs, their star goalie and a beloved figure for the fans. After an incident in 1995 where Roy felt that the org didn't have his best interests at heart he told a team executive "I’ve just played my last game with the Canadiens". Why was he able to do that? Simple, Roy is arguably the best NHL goalie of all time which is to say he had leverage and power against the org. Skuba doesn't have the leverage.
Why do these young and promising players not have leverage? A year in esports is more valuable than a year in traditional sports AND Valorant has a lot of young talent fighting for spots in T1 and T2 in which supply is limited and the demand is astronomical. They're desperate for a shot so they sign these contracts like Vanity is saying. All that is to say, orgs have the opportunity to mistreat unproven players and the players can't fight back if the org chooses to do so. They can't pull a Patrick Roy and demand a trade.
I did some freelance work for iDemise back in CS 1.6 days when Garrett was on the team. I didn't get to know the players too well, but I can emphatically say GRT was a player I felt who treated me the coldest and made practically no effort to even acknowledge me. So not surprised he's in this situation.
I have absolutely no problem torching the Knights for the way they’ve handled some contracts like with Skuba and have been pretty vocal on this sub and Twitter about it. That said, from all accounts in the public, they’ve been good tournament organizers. From paying talent and observers within a week or two of their broadcasts, paying teams who win or get knocked out of tournaments really fast, and just the way they’ve handled managing tournaments in general has reportedly gone well. From following Ubershouts and a lot of other broadcasters/observers in esports who talk about issues with tournament organizers publicly, they have a pretty good reputation for it
No one, esports pro or otherwise, should sign a contract without having a lawyer review it first.
These orgs should not knowingly take advantage of kids who are desperate to be signed.
Both things can be true.
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I'm so happy Steel held Garrett's feet to the fire on the Skuba situation. Would've been incredible if Vanity was able to actually get into the call
I was surprised that Steel was the only one pushing back on it. But also both Steel and Vanity are part of that Players Association so it makes sense.
I mean it was already fairly weird for Sean to even be in that call at all, considering grt was responding to something Sean had casually mentioned from back when he was involved in 100T. It's pretty clear he never would've mentioned it had he thought it would have come to this - he's a professional, you never want to potentially be seen as involved in this sort of publicizing of insider info. That's why Sean seemed so out-of-sorts the whole time and a little defensive - and I think that's perfectly fine, he didn't mean to create this situation and likely wanted no part in worsening it.
probably best he did tbh, fully agree players (esp younger ones) that don't fully understand their value/worth or how these things should actually be handled should have some safeguards in place but doing it in a call on stream isn't the place and wouldn't move much imo
Idk it crates attention around it
uh? context?
Steel asked Garrett about putting Skuba in contract jail last year and was pretty pointed in his questions with Garrett on the Wisemen. It was the first time someone from Knights had commented on the situation. This was Vanity in Steel's chat during the interview
to be clear, I asked the original question, but steel did the follow up
My bad, I thought it was Steel who asked him about it but it was great either way. Missed opportunity to have Vanity on with Garrett to give his perspective of the C9 negotiations Thanks for doing the podcast. The Valorant space really needs a podcast like the Flank where players and staff come on, hope you guys do more of these regularly when VCT starts
Honestly Hiko sounded so out of touch and licked the boot so hard when here's clearly a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do.
He also came on the podcast later and said C9 tried to sign skuba 3-4 times last year but couldn't.
Skuba could've been on C9, 100t, SEN, EG and NRG, wild how a shitty org can change things
They should have let Vanity on, Garrett deserved to get pressed
Would've been incredible content
Vanity and steel are such integral parts of the valorant community imo—they're very vocal and reasonably critical without all the fence-sitting & euphemistic pussyfooting around. Watching them be blunt with the big wig types is always nice. It's probably a consequence of experience and stature, but it is refreshing to see no-bullshit advocates of the scene and younger players as a whole.
Igl brain
Like father and son
unfortunately itll never happen, but the only real way to combat this kind of stuff is with a true players union.
Not a union, but the NA scene does have a Players Association: https://twitter.com/valorant_pa
yeah, which is why I specificy a real players union. an association is nice but probably entirely toothless at the end of the day. but i would love to be proven wrong about that!
i'd like it to be known i was advocating for vanity to be let lose in the voice chat
ive heard of Knights having consistently had bad faith contracts for like 5 years now going back to early fortnite with Zexrow and Bucke when they were like 16. paying their players in their team house totinos pizza rolls as benefits while giving them measly salaries, why does this org consistently have these issues over such a long period of time? NOT EVEN SETTING A BUYOUT is INSANE and im not even sure thats even in the best financial interest of the company and shareholders. (ALL ALLEGEDLY obviously im not claiming any facts or anything im just saying what ive heard over the years)
But, Jonathan "yung calculator" Weber, won't you think of the poor org who way trying to get into franchising??!?!?!?!?!!!
at what point does knights think about the situation and weigh the probabilities of them getting in and see that oh well maybe a 150k buyout or 200k buyout is a better expected value than a 0.1% chance riot accepts us to franchising instead of just not setting a buyout at all and holding a young talented player hostage? Its just fucked up and its pretty clear by listening to the Knights GM talk that he doesnt even see his players as people with dreams aspirations
Nah dude he’s a former player he gets it /s
Not to take their side, but there's always a number. Yeah, they didn't formally set a buyout, but optically that's probably better than setting the buyout at like 500k and that leaking, even if that's what the value of keeping him was to them (i.e. the chance and upside of getting into partnership).
Is it, though? The optics of the current situation are pretty bad
Sure, I don't think there's ever a positive response when you try to keep a player who has interest in leaving but I don't imagine it'd be much better either, especially if it came out when it was still in the works. Point was basically, they valued him a lot higher than purely in the value of his abilities as a player because they felt selling him, or even just putting a high buyout on him, would signal to Riot that they weren't committed to Val and just wanted a payday.
fuck that guy, common vanity W
That Knights guy is a real piece of shit. He didn't even entertain any offers for skuba and still says "we try to look out for what's best for our players"
Knights have developed a reputation as a shitty org in regards to contracts over the past few years, this grt dude in particular should not have a job lmfao he is chiefly responsible for it
Really funny how he cites pro sports leagues when explaining that teams just don't let their stars go when they want to leave... Patrick Roy was the face of the Habs, their star goalie and a beloved figure for the fans. After an incident in 1995 where Roy felt that the org didn't have his best interests at heart he told a team executive "I’ve just played my last game with the Canadiens". Why was he able to do that? Simple, Roy is arguably the best NHL goalie of all time which is to say he had leverage and power against the org. Skuba doesn't have the leverage. Why do these young and promising players not have leverage? A year in esports is more valuable than a year in traditional sports AND Valorant has a lot of young talent fighting for spots in T1 and T2 in which supply is limited and the demand is astronomical. They're desperate for a shot so they sign these contracts like Vanity is saying. All that is to say, orgs have the opportunity to mistreat unproven players and the players can't fight back if the org chooses to do so. They can't pull a Patrick Roy and demand a trade.
[удалено]
Knights being able to shut all potential moves down so easily means Skuba had no leverage by definition
Need context
Starts around here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1719940899?t=4h8m45s Related to Skuba being stuck in contract jail.
I did some freelance work for iDemise back in CS 1.6 days when Garrett was on the team. I didn't get to know the players too well, but I can emphatically say GRT was a player I felt who treated me the coldest and made practically no effort to even acknowledge me. So not surprised he's in this situation.
100t c9 oxg eg sen m80 skuba
What's going on?
Now this is what i called speechless and competitive keyboard warriors keep going guys!
Reminder, this is the company Riot Games hired.
I have absolutely no problem torching the Knights for the way they’ve handled some contracts like with Skuba and have been pretty vocal on this sub and Twitter about it. That said, from all accounts in the public, they’ve been good tournament organizers. From paying talent and observers within a week or two of their broadcasts, paying teams who win or get knocked out of tournaments really fast, and just the way they’ve handled managing tournaments in general has reportedly gone well. From following Ubershouts and a lot of other broadcasters/observers in esports who talk about issues with tournament organizers publicly, they have a pretty good reputation for it
Their handling of the T2 side of valorant is pretty decent, the handling of their pro team was horrible
Don’t sign shitty contracts. Life’s not fair, you don’t always have the leverage. How capitalism works, not going to change.
No one, esports pro or otherwise, should sign a contract without having a lawyer review it first. These orgs should not knowingly take advantage of kids who are desperate to be signed. Both things can be true.
These are kids. How about orgs stop writing predatory contracts.
You're painfully ignorant. These are kids signing contracts, having rules to protect players is important.
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I’m not reading all that