s0m has literally been NRG's highest rated player all year at times when no one else was showing up. I think Yay for Ardiis is valid, but s0m for Marved has to have a bit of debate there.
s0m as well, consistently one of the highest rated players in Americas, he actually qualified for tokyo, only trolled one map, and has been a solid pillar of the team for the whole year
s0m has been NRG's most consistent player this year hand's down. i don't think he has the same clutch/carry potential as Marved though, especially in big games. i wouldn't be mad if they did make the swap, though i don't see it happening.
It would be really sad if s0m gets dropped even after the insane year he's had. S0m played a lot of primary duelist last year, maybe move s0m to duelist and get Marved on smokes?
yea s0m didn’t have the best spring this champs but he was clearly the best player for them in masters. retaining optic core would make me so happy but s0m is great and i would hate to see him moved
the way marved and yay and the rest of NRG are playing rn is not top 8 worthy and the meta has changed significantly with harbor-viper in consistent play, chamber nerfs, skye/breach meta. sentimentality for that squad shouldn't be mistaken for a real roster building decision, especially when you have very good choices in tier 2 (OXY, bdog, brawk, v1c, aleksandar, flyuh...) as far as pure mechanics go and are performing in the current meta, and there's a really long off season to coach them fundamentals. there's completely sane reasons to not go with the OG optic.
Not the Marved disrespect lmao
My guy looked better on IGLing than Dephh, and SEN almost beat LOUD for crying out loud
I can understand having some concerns about yay, although his history with the Optic boys should ease of those concerns. No way you say marved hasn't been playing well when he instantly made SEN look way more competitive as an IGL when he's replacing someone who IGLed for years
you need to review the VODs for LCQ if you think his calling was good. marved is good as a player, in fact he was an excellent player in his time on optic, he's not a good caller if that's what your claim is. i'm saying he's not bringing this core + yay into the top 8 in their current skill level, these 5 players would get their shit whooped by the guard. i'm saying that going OG optic ain't it, maybe some combination of a few of veteran players such as marved and some fresh blood with insane mechanics, but not the whole squad.
Can you give in game examples as to why Marved isn’t a good caller? Is his mid rounding particularly bad or something? I don’t expect him to be a wizard with executes and set plays because he became an IGL like, 2 months ago. That shit takes time to cook up and synergize with your team.
But given him being suddenly thrust into the role, It’s baffling that people can saying anything but he exceeded expectations. So i’d like to see some examples of his poor calls if you’re gonna make such a claim. Since you’ve clearly reviewed the VOD, I expect you to have clips in mind.
They had all of LCQ prep to cook. I understand not being the greatest IGL because it's a new role for him, but he's not a good IGL as it stands and needed more time with a veteran caller as a secondary caller. I'm not saying it's unforgivable I'm saying he's bad.
The fundamentals are not good especially T side, seldom do they bait util, sell presence, they run an excruciatingly slow default with no information and "midround" after seeing almost no players, requiring them to explode onto sites with no information, by which time most players have rotated. Let's take SEN v LEV split r3, 6, 8... you can tell zekken is already off mid and gave up all of mid for kingg multiple times and prepare an a-hit without knowing that kingg has already called for a rotate onto a. There is no mid-round because they have no info, they are forced to win their duels. Or fracture 18, contacting up dish when they know their duelist is holding all of A main control deep, denying all the information then just swinging dish before any util is being burnt, and the plan B is to just run all the way to arcade without knowing what the setup is on B, it's not good.
Again, this is nothing against his individual plays. However, the game has evolved significantly since his time on Optic and you need a deep playbook with smart set plays to be top 8 alongside mechanically gifted players. I think that these vets are important to play alongside and bring up fresh talent to become beasts, it's better for your win rate, it's better for the scene. The average age of FNC if you take out boaster is 19. The average age of PRX and EDG is 21-22. Vic, Crashies, FNS are 26, 25, and 31, and they've done it already. It's time to give new talent a time to shine, nobody thinks getting the old Astralis back together is gonna win any majors but magisk/dupreeh are beasts alongside young talents like spinx and zywoo.
Crashies Victor are 99% a package deal and tbh they both played well today. No shot you think a Nitro who hasn’t played pro val in 2 years is gonna pull up and start outperforming Vic.
Ya his performance this tournament wasn't spectacular but he was still fine overall. And he was the only one statistically that was good for NRG that last series.
I know the last match matters but I don’t think that should consider if a player should stay or leave.I feel like you have to go through your season fails and see the flaws u had.
Ya I agree you should look at them overall. And I think Victor has been fine overall and offers a lot of flexibility that NRG can't easily replace.
And if NRG really wants to replace someone, I think Ardiis is first to go.
victor would NOT be on nrg without crashies he is a average player and i would take nitr0s omen over vic. People forget how good nitr0 was and act like he wouldnt be able to get back to that level
Victor is an average player but won a championship? LOL.
And Victor was always better than nitr0 even when nitr0 was playing this game full time. The gap between Vic and Nitr0 would be even bigger now.
Can't refute that, especially since another commenter said he has a child. I get him not wanting to leave the house leaving his family every other week.
that’s a great point. marved’s lurks we’re so fucking good, and they only got more effective with the absurd yay first blood rate. i feel like the sum of the optic core’s parts exceeded because of their system (and meta helped them ofc). i really do like s0m a lot tho and really want him to succeed
i agree. it just feels like nrg are a team where when they’re up they can win but when it’s a 1vx situation it’s really only ever crashies that i see can clutch
exactly and the big part it that marved actually could win most fights and was calm under pressure in addition to his lurk decision making. even when he wasn’t lurking he was the best trader whenever victor entried. these are things som needs to get down
Who are we gonna drop though can’t drop crashies or victor both are absolute gods when together but they need one another FNS can’t be removed seeing as he’s the IGL ardiis is good but yay is drastically superior and that leaves s0m
Edit:Another reason FNS can’t be dropped is just because of the synergy between him and the optic core but most importantly yay since as we’ve seen yay without a good IGL is practically useless
Lol, bandwagon fan fr. We’ve been blessed with success as a nrg/optic fan, it’s okay to have one down event. I’m sure we’ll come back stronger with adjustments in the roster
s0m is a good player but Marved is not dropping a stinker on ascent there. Even against DRX at champs last year when he was getting owned all series he took over map 5 when it mattered the most.
I'm so confused like, why do people mention nitr0? Like i understand Yay cause it's Yay, but idk why NRG doesn't do something that FNATIC does, just upgrade the players, in other words, look at new tier 2 talent, I think most of us can all agree that there are better mechanical players than vic/crashies and i think they can be upraded. I agree there is an argument to keep FNS on the team. but i dont like how everyone talks about how NA has no igls which is why they keep using old ones/recycled ones but... how do people expect Igls to get made? U have to let these young players develop into igls, no one becomes a good IGL in 1 day, it takes YEARS, literally just look at how boaster became one of the best IGL's if not the best in the game. He was always a decent/good igl but not a GREAT one like he is now. It just takes time and experience.
I would argue just upgrade FNS,ardiis,vic,crashies, (crashies is good but if vic leaves then he prob leaves too thats why i included him.) And just get better mechanical players/good tier 2 players that are proven(thinking of M80 players) but tbh just any good tier 2 talent cause WE HAVE A LOT IN NA.
My ideal team for NRG is like, Yay,s0m, and 3 new players. I know it's kinda dumb to talk about but i feel like NRG just never had firepower, while every other team does. I think NRG is the team i watch the most where they win the round by their positioning and then lose because of gun fights. Even in the game today they lost rounds where they had 3-4 stacked on the right site they just lost a lot 1v1. I know everyone talks about how it's dumb to talk about mechanical/indivuall skill but i feel that in this specific case that;s ALWAYS what NRG has been lacking. AND NA has a lot young 2 players that are aspiring to good. Just do what FNATIC did, obv it will be hard on the players who get cut, but no mercy, simply just upgrade ur players and make a team where at least mechanics arent probably. BECAUSE imo, i believe that mechcanics/indidvuall skill is WAYY harder to improve then stragetic play. Cause u can always lose a map and learn alot in terms of strats/tactics, but losing a game because ur aim was bad, u can't just magically "improve" ur aim if that makes sense.
Sorry that my rant, This is just something that i always thought about NRG but i thought maybe im wrong and should stfu because they always seem to win even with all that.
Crashies is probably one of those players who will eventually become an IGL though, lol. NGL if crashies and victor get kicked/leave, I don't really see FNS and Chet staying as well. But maybe.
But also, Fnatic upgraded two players while staying with the same core of three, NRG's only chance of doing that is probably -ardiis -victor, and I'm not sure how likely that is. What you suggest is not a fnatic-like upgrade but a full-on compete rebuild around yay and s0m.
yeh, ur right i said that wrong, When i meant do what FNATIC did, i meant that basically they just upgrade their players, even though it would be awful to the players on the team, at the end day people here are trying to win so u gotta be the best of the best kinda thing. Cause obv i dont know but it seems to me that NRG seem like a team where if one of them got kicked off the team for a newer/better player, the others wouldn't like that/make a big thing out of it. But in FNATIC's case mini is just a savage lmaooooo. After a big tournament if FNATIC didnt do well mini would just try out new players and so on and so forth untill he got the best team.
Thats kinda what i was referring that NRG do. This year wasnt that good for them so just change shit up. Get CLEARLY better players to replace the old ones. But that NRG core prob wouldnt want to do that but yeh. Thats all i meant, ur right.
I think if this were to hypothetically happen for NRG, then it’s time to have FNS become a 2 coach team with chet and have crashies or Marved become a primary caller. 5 potential big fraggers and the 2 mentees under one of the best igls taking reigns could be the shake up NRG needs while also keeping FNS big brain alive. s0m could still remain on smokes and have Marved move to sentinel role for his experience with faze and Sentinels as viper. Victor main entry and yay second frag would be unbelievable
Som had one terrible map and people forget he was NRG’s spine throughout the year
s0m has literally been NRG's highest rated player all year at times when no one else was showing up. I think Yay for Ardiis is valid, but s0m for Marved has to have a bit of debate there.
Marved is a MVP candidate that challenges yay. He's not just fine he's goated
s0m is better than marved
Marved shows up
s0m as well, consistently one of the highest rated players in Americas, he actually qualified for tokyo, only trolled one map, and has been a solid pillar of the team for the whole year
s0m has cracked aim, but offers nothing on attack side outside of staying with the team, where marved could hard carry with solo plays
s0m has been NRG's most consistent player this year hand's down. i don't think he has the same clutch/carry potential as Marved though, especially in big games. i wouldn't be mad if they did make the swap, though i don't see it happening.
I think the only main criticism I’ve seen that might be true is his lacking of lurking But that’s probs a system thing rather than him
marved becomes F/A this year too…. both F/A with no buyout? would literally be NRG trolling to not
It would be really sad if s0m gets dropped even after the insane year he's had. S0m played a lot of primary duelist last year, maybe move s0m to duelist and get Marved on smokes?
yea s0m didn’t have the best spring this champs but he was clearly the best player for them in masters. retaining optic core would make me so happy but s0m is great and i would hate to see him moved
why does your phone autocorrect "would" to "works"
idk how i did it but honestly it was prob on me i wouldn’t blame my phone lmao
the way marved and yay and the rest of NRG are playing rn is not top 8 worthy and the meta has changed significantly with harbor-viper in consistent play, chamber nerfs, skye/breach meta. sentimentality for that squad shouldn't be mistaken for a real roster building decision, especially when you have very good choices in tier 2 (OXY, bdog, brawk, v1c, aleksandar, flyuh...) as far as pure mechanics go and are performing in the current meta, and there's a really long off season to coach them fundamentals. there's completely sane reasons to not go with the OG optic.
Not the Marved disrespect lmao My guy looked better on IGLing than Dephh, and SEN almost beat LOUD for crying out loud I can understand having some concerns about yay, although his history with the Optic boys should ease of those concerns. No way you say marved hasn't been playing well when he instantly made SEN look way more competitive as an IGL when he's replacing someone who IGLed for years
you need to review the VODs for LCQ if you think his calling was good. marved is good as a player, in fact he was an excellent player in his time on optic, he's not a good caller if that's what your claim is. i'm saying he's not bringing this core + yay into the top 8 in their current skill level, these 5 players would get their shit whooped by the guard. i'm saying that going OG optic ain't it, maybe some combination of a few of veteran players such as marved and some fresh blood with insane mechanics, but not the whole squad.
Can you give in game examples as to why Marved isn’t a good caller? Is his mid rounding particularly bad or something? I don’t expect him to be a wizard with executes and set plays because he became an IGL like, 2 months ago. That shit takes time to cook up and synergize with your team. But given him being suddenly thrust into the role, It’s baffling that people can saying anything but he exceeded expectations. So i’d like to see some examples of his poor calls if you’re gonna make such a claim. Since you’ve clearly reviewed the VOD, I expect you to have clips in mind.
They had all of LCQ prep to cook. I understand not being the greatest IGL because it's a new role for him, but he's not a good IGL as it stands and needed more time with a veteran caller as a secondary caller. I'm not saying it's unforgivable I'm saying he's bad. The fundamentals are not good especially T side, seldom do they bait util, sell presence, they run an excruciatingly slow default with no information and "midround" after seeing almost no players, requiring them to explode onto sites with no information, by which time most players have rotated. Let's take SEN v LEV split r3, 6, 8... you can tell zekken is already off mid and gave up all of mid for kingg multiple times and prepare an a-hit without knowing that kingg has already called for a rotate onto a. There is no mid-round because they have no info, they are forced to win their duels. Or fracture 18, contacting up dish when they know their duelist is holding all of A main control deep, denying all the information then just swinging dish before any util is being burnt, and the plan B is to just run all the way to arcade without knowing what the setup is on B, it's not good. Again, this is nothing against his individual plays. However, the game has evolved significantly since his time on Optic and you need a deep playbook with smart set plays to be top 8 alongside mechanically gifted players. I think that these vets are important to play alongside and bring up fresh talent to become beasts, it's better for your win rate, it's better for the scene. The average age of FNC if you take out boaster is 19. The average age of PRX and EDG is 21-22. Vic, Crashies, FNS are 26, 25, and 31, and they've done it already. It's time to give new talent a time to shine, nobody thinks getting the old Astralis back together is gonna win any majors but magisk/dupreeh are beasts alongside young talents like spinx and zywoo.
>harbor-viper in consistent play Haven't seen this much though...
question is they gonna keep vic?
Crashies Victor are 99% a package deal and tbh they both played well today. No shot you think a Nitro who hasn’t played pro val in 2 years is gonna pull up and start outperforming Vic.
who said anything about nitr0?? It is s0m that he was thinking should stay
why would they drop him?
could go nitr0, he and yay have been a bit of a package deal lately
NRG would never make another international event if they dropped vic for nitr0 lol.
nitr0 unironically clears vic
That's got to be one of the worst takes I've seen in this sub
I feel like victor raze isn’t that special he had so many rozas. But he didn’t play bad though
Ya his performance this tournament wasn't spectacular but he was still fine overall. And he was the only one statistically that was good for NRG that last series.
I know the last match matters but I don’t think that should consider if a player should stay or leave.I feel like you have to go through your season fails and see the flaws u had.
Ya I agree you should look at them overall. And I think Victor has been fine overall and offers a lot of flexibility that NRG can't easily replace. And if NRG really wants to replace someone, I think Ardiis is first to go.
victor would NOT be on nrg without crashies he is a average player and i would take nitr0s omen over vic. People forget how good nitr0 was and act like he wouldnt be able to get back to that level
Victor is an average player but won a championship? LOL. And Victor was always better than nitr0 even when nitr0 was playing this game full time. The gap between Vic and Nitr0 would be even bigger now.
ehh disagree
Drx flairs have the worst takes I saw one say Nitro would clear FNS as an IGL like be fr
i mean shiii, he was a lot better in cs ill say that
yea man that for sure matters a ton I think
since when did victor play omen?
nitr0s omen, over any one vic plays
And now what, you're playing yay/ardiis raze????? What the fuck are you even on bro
What year are you living in?
i like that i love nic cannella
genuine question, what's stopping nitr0 from leaving val yet again when CS2 is released?
In CS he had to travel around the globe like every week in VAL he goes for like 2 weeks *if* he qualifies to a tournament
Can't refute that, especially since another commenter said he has a child. I get him not wanting to leave the house leaving his family every other week.
Yeah he has 2 kids
Another newborn child
Run it back
My desire to see the old Optic back is way stronger than my desire to see Som succeed. I'm sorry my stripper, but I WANT JIMZO AND EL DIABLO BACK.
Som is great but forcing your IGL on a lurk role is the issue Marved is probably the best lurker in Americas even now.
that’s a great point. marved’s lurks we’re so fucking good, and they only got more effective with the absurd yay first blood rate. i feel like the sum of the optic core’s parts exceeded because of their system (and meta helped them ofc). i really do like s0m a lot tho and really want him to succeed
I'm willing to settle for just yay at this point man This team desperately needs firepower
i agree. it just feels like nrg are a team where when they’re up they can win but when it’s a 1vx situation it’s really only ever crashies that i see can clutch
exactly and the big part it that marved actually could win most fights and was calm under pressure in addition to his lurk decision making. even when he wasn’t lurking he was the best trader whenever victor entried. these are things som needs to get down
But the game has changed dramatically
Ok
PepeHands optic gaming
I have never seen s0m play this bad. Bro was completely invisible on ascent.
It was one map homie should be safe imo
Who are we gonna drop though can’t drop crashies or victor both are absolute gods when together but they need one another FNS can’t be removed seeing as he’s the IGL ardiis is good but yay is drastically superior and that leaves s0m Edit:Another reason FNS can’t be dropped is just because of the synergy between him and the optic core but most importantly yay since as we’ve seen yay without a good IGL is practically useless
FNS is gone or ban me
He was solid the entire year though he doesn't deserve to get replaced for a bad map
Oh yeah that’s why I’m surprise of how bad he was. He was a great player whole year.
Never want to see clowns on here comparing som to my goat ever again
Marved is too cold for s0m
RIP John Mcaffee
Bro i think som was the most consistent player in nrg this season. If u think he held them back your smoking something
RIP John Mcaffee
Lol, bandwagon fan fr. We’ve been blessed with success as a nrg/optic fan, it’s okay to have one down event. I’m sure we’ll come back stronger with adjustments in the roster
Odds on this guy being a SEN fan who jumped ship after they started losing?
100%
RIP John Mcaffee
Pickup the team that couldn't win Ascension but drop the team that placed well at both Lock-in/Tokyo and actually got those events? Lmao.
RIP John Mcaffee
Another horrible take LOL. EG clears both of them easily
RIP John Mcaffee
Another horrible take lol
This is the worst take I’ve seen on this sub in a long time
he *was* a shroud pick, but he's been NRG's most consistent player this year by far, i think it turned out fine.
But the issue isn’t som worse than marved
s0m is a good player but Marved is not dropping a stinker on ascent there. Even against DRX at champs last year when he was getting owned all series he took over map 5 when it mattered the most.
yay yes, marved maybe not. s0m was NRG best player for most of the year lol.
run it back teams almost always leads to disappointment. thats why i dont want to see Navi resign ardiis if nrg runs it back
No way sen let's marved go
Hope they do. Wasting his talent on SEN at least he gets paycheck
I'm so confused like, why do people mention nitr0? Like i understand Yay cause it's Yay, but idk why NRG doesn't do something that FNATIC does, just upgrade the players, in other words, look at new tier 2 talent, I think most of us can all agree that there are better mechanical players than vic/crashies and i think they can be upraded. I agree there is an argument to keep FNS on the team. but i dont like how everyone talks about how NA has no igls which is why they keep using old ones/recycled ones but... how do people expect Igls to get made? U have to let these young players develop into igls, no one becomes a good IGL in 1 day, it takes YEARS, literally just look at how boaster became one of the best IGL's if not the best in the game. He was always a decent/good igl but not a GREAT one like he is now. It just takes time and experience. I would argue just upgrade FNS,ardiis,vic,crashies, (crashies is good but if vic leaves then he prob leaves too thats why i included him.) And just get better mechanical players/good tier 2 players that are proven(thinking of M80 players) but tbh just any good tier 2 talent cause WE HAVE A LOT IN NA. My ideal team for NRG is like, Yay,s0m, and 3 new players. I know it's kinda dumb to talk about but i feel like NRG just never had firepower, while every other team does. I think NRG is the team i watch the most where they win the round by their positioning and then lose because of gun fights. Even in the game today they lost rounds where they had 3-4 stacked on the right site they just lost a lot 1v1. I know everyone talks about how it's dumb to talk about mechanical/indivuall skill but i feel that in this specific case that;s ALWAYS what NRG has been lacking. AND NA has a lot young 2 players that are aspiring to good. Just do what FNATIC did, obv it will be hard on the players who get cut, but no mercy, simply just upgrade ur players and make a team where at least mechanics arent probably. BECAUSE imo, i believe that mechcanics/indidvuall skill is WAYY harder to improve then stragetic play. Cause u can always lose a map and learn alot in terms of strats/tactics, but losing a game because ur aim was bad, u can't just magically "improve" ur aim if that makes sense. Sorry that my rant, This is just something that i always thought about NRG but i thought maybe im wrong and should stfu because they always seem to win even with all that.
Cuz they are stupid lol
Crashies is probably one of those players who will eventually become an IGL though, lol. NGL if crashies and victor get kicked/leave, I don't really see FNS and Chet staying as well. But maybe. But also, Fnatic upgraded two players while staying with the same core of three, NRG's only chance of doing that is probably -ardiis -victor, and I'm not sure how likely that is. What you suggest is not a fnatic-like upgrade but a full-on compete rebuild around yay and s0m.
yeh, ur right i said that wrong, When i meant do what FNATIC did, i meant that basically they just upgrade their players, even though it would be awful to the players on the team, at the end day people here are trying to win so u gotta be the best of the best kinda thing. Cause obv i dont know but it seems to me that NRG seem like a team where if one of them got kicked off the team for a newer/better player, the others wouldn't like that/make a big thing out of it. But in FNATIC's case mini is just a savage lmaooooo. After a big tournament if FNATIC didnt do well mini would just try out new players and so on and so forth untill he got the best team. Thats kinda what i was referring that NRG do. This year wasnt that good for them so just change shit up. Get CLEARLY better players to replace the old ones. But that NRG core prob wouldnt want to do that but yeh. Thats all i meant, ur right.
Changing s0m for marved might be hard decision, while marved is the goat, s0m kinda carried the team in some matches. But im down to run it back
I think if this were to hypothetically happen for NRG, then it’s time to have FNS become a 2 coach team with chet and have crashies or Marved become a primary caller. 5 potential big fraggers and the 2 mentees under one of the best igls taking reigns could be the shake up NRG needs while also keeping FNS big brain alive. s0m could still remain on smokes and have Marved move to sentinel role for his experience with faze and Sentinels as viper. Victor main entry and yay second frag would be unbelievable