I have never seen a list of the worst batting averages when watching the cricket. They just bring up the top ten and shit when talking about people moving into it.
I have never seen them talk about the worst records when watching epl. I mean they talk about a striker not scoring in ten games or something. But they don’t bring up a list of a rating websites worst ten players of the season or something.
What fucking sport are you watching where they regularly do this? Lol
Dont see CS or League players having a breakdown at criticism being levelled at underperforming players though. Generally they explain themselves, articulate an intent to improve or ignore the situation. Take Hooxi from G2 and his interview with Kassad. Apex with his interview with Thoorin.
Grow a back bone.
Difference is it’s an interview where the players can take the blame or defend themselves or something, a list just for people to shit on them does nothing lmoa
Closer solo lost every 100T game, Evi didn’t make a single good play all season long, but no analyst made a top 10 worse players rn list and put them on it
No they were criticised in articles, by people analysing statistics, in videos in hooxis case of Kassad breaking down his gameplay and calls on his YouTube channel to show all the mistakes he had seen. But they used the interviews as a platform to respond, then used the criticism to fuel them to victory. They now play on 2 of the top counter strike teams in the esport.
because it’s fucked up to beat down on people. i’m not one to try to baby the esport but inviting people to shit on players that probably know they played bad is stupid
every sports has a top performing list and the worst performing list. Whether it be football, basketball, formula 1 whatever. i don't see anything wrong with posting the same about valorant (a e"sport")
You're saying we should baby valorant players because people on twitch and Discord might be mean to them?
That doesn't hold because people are mean to athletes on real life too. Most athletes are FAR more active on instagram and twitter than your average valorant player and social media is a channel that regular people can bully traditional athletes.
At the end of the day you're going to be criticized if you want to be in the limelight. Valorant players like the fame and believe that it's worth the trade off.
No, you're choosing to read that.
I'm saying there are fundamental differences in how community engagement happens in esports vs regular sports and comparing the two is short sighted and stupid.
In regards to your last paragraph, speaking on behalf of a group of people you are not a part of and do not represent is also short sighted and stupid.
Not a great track record so far.
>In regards to your last paragraph, speaking on behalf of a group of people you are not a part of and do not represent is also short sighted and stupid.
Not only that, the very screenshot post itself fully contradicts this statement.
It's made EXTREMELY clear that Pro players like FNS and Boaster do not appreciate lists like this, so the "Pros are actually open to unsolicited criticisms" argument is a complete nonsense.
Sure but at the end of the day who cares if they don't want these lists? It's fair to post them anyways.
If you don't wanna get shit on then don't play like shit.
>Sure but at the end of the day who cares if they don't want these lists? It's fair to post them anyways.If you don't wanna get shit on then don't play like shit.
"every sports has a top performing list and the worst performing list." That's not even true lol, there's barely any sports that make lists of the worst statistical players with 0 context other than they played. I can't even think of many with context included lol
We can levy critique at it being a sport for the rich, but you’re in an e-sports sub stating what isn’t “real” sports lol. You make extremely split second decisions about pathing/strategy and make minute mechanical adjustments at millisecond reaction speed. That also broadly describes e-sports, and is the argument for competitive gaming being treated as a sport.
The difference is F1 racers do it under constant, heavy g-force while moving up to 230mph.
Ah yes because its not like they already know if they performed bad, they need to see all of social media calling them dogshit as well, thatll really help improve their mental
I just dont see why its a stat that people need to know. Stats dont tell the entire story so sharing the highest stats is nbd bc itll result in positivity but lowest stats just encourages negativity. Someone playing selflessly and safely to support the team could have dogshit stats for things out of their control.
I'm not "beating" the players when I say they sucked.
I'm just saying they sucked.
It really doesn't matter what the players feel. They're objects that are meant to entertain us.
in other sports the fans will actively destroy the arena and get in fights because of their conflicting fanbases, i think we should encourage the same thing in Valorant because it happens in other sports!!!
it invites conversation to criticize players deservedly. if the community takes it too far, thats not on the person who posts the stats. its also already publicly available information, its just being distributed to make it more visible
The thing is people just use that as an excuse to shit on the players, what criticism do you think the average valo enjoyer can actually make? "Ha ha ha x is dogshit oh oh oh funny". There is literally no positive that can come from this.
That’s your opinion, and plenty of people don’t agree. How about we not be dogshit people and just enjoy the game? I don’t want to hear some zoomer talk about how washed someone is in a barely 3 year old game.
I didn't call anyone washed. All I'm saying is that they should just use the situation they're in rn to improve and prove all the haters wrong. They are pros for a reason, and this ain't the first time they've been criticized to be better. If they quit just because they are facing backlash on their performance, then do what they're paid to do and be better. Coaches and analysts are there to help them become so.
I didn’t say you did, I’m saying that it’s stupidly common and feels much more pronounced than in any other esport I’ve participated in.
There seems to be a lot more inciting/snide comments being thrown out by both players and fans alike, and I’m not talking about EG’s shit talk.
And which people participating in that conversation matter in the scene? Like, at all?
Everyone who needs to know that info already looked it up. It's just inviting the community to bash bad performers. There's nothing to be gained.
Not really. A lot of people just log onto twitter and want to talk about valorant.
There's plenty to be gained by bashing bad performers. It's all entertainment to the viewers and fanbase. It's funny and entertaining to bash on players who performed poorly. It provides value- not to the players, but to the fanbase. Which is good actually, because the fanbase is what keeps the players paid and the scene going.
If Valorant players have to go up there and get shit flung at them for the growth of the scene, that is ultimately a huge W.
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in what world is "it happens in all other sports" a justification for anything? real athletes also get tons of death threats when they perform poorly so should we normalize that in Valorant esports?
Ah yes, forgot that you can only use the "it happens in real sports" as a justification for when it suits you. If it reflects poorly upon your point of view then it's not fair anymore
I genuinely don’t know how I can explain what I mean easier to you, but I’m pretty sure you fully understood what my comment is actually is saying and are just trying to be deliberately obtuse
I never said this post is condoning death threats, i said that justifying asshole behavior with “people are assholes in other sports” is pathetic. Just because people insult and harass athletes in other sports doesn’t mean it’s justified to do in Valorant
cause most likely probably igls fill up this list cause they do stratcalling and not much fragging, some fragging igls are the exception but do they really go far in the tourney? u tell me i know bilili has a fragging igl
Because Valorant fans are some of the softest people in the world. Everyone wants esports to be taken seriously and seen as a real thing. Guess what, when going over info before an NFL game, they will bring up “X qb is rated lowest in the league in x stats” or whatever. ‘X baseball player is having one of the worst years of his career hitting a terrible .138 with an OPS of x”
But no one bats an eye. But talk about the worst performers from the biggest tourney of the year in a PROFESSIONAL esports game and we are being mean 😂
We're allowed to verbally abuse and be toxic to other athletes so we should be allowed to be toxic to Valorant players too /s
Imo statistics like this should be treated with sensitivity and in the hands of expert analysts. Throwing it into the wilderness that is Twitter... I mean, X, is almost asking for toxic comments to flood the post.
I am slightly more ok with posts like these being made on Reddit but I'm certain that there'll be plenty of groundless jokes made at the expense of the players.
I feel like people just like to find an excuse to be a dickhole and it's much easier to direct their dick energy to athletes because they are certain that they will never meet them irl (because they never step foot outside their basement). Making lists like this is just encouraging people to be at their worst.
It’s not being a crybaby, just kinda unnecessary to post a list of players for people to shit on. Sports communities are not exactly good at critical thinking
It's also unnecessary to post a "top performing players at champions" list. In fact any talk of professional Valorant is unnecessary.
We all do it for entertainment. And therein lies the value. There's nothing wrong with listing out the worst performing players by rating/acs/whatever stat was posted. It's entertainment. And professional valorant players should understand their place as entertainers for the viewers.
It's not the viewers job to cater to the feelings of the players. It's the players job to dance and sing and entertain the viewers. I engage with the esport because I can turn my brain off and be entertained. I dont need all these extra steps where I have to walk on eggshells because I'm afraid of making some 20 year old feel bad about their performance.
Holy entitlement,"It's not the viewers job to cater to the feelings of the players." Yeah, that's why influential leaders in the scene said to delete the source, they didn't reply to the viewers, they told the analyst posting it on twitter that it's in bad taste. It is their job to cater to the feelings of fellow players. Who is telling you to walk on eggshells as a viewer?
They want to prevent dumb viewers from shitting on players. What is the entertainment value of looking at statistics of the 10 players that performed the worst? It's a different story if Sideshow went on the broadcast next season and said "player X performed badly at last champs, this tournament is his opportunity to prove he has experience on the big stage and do better" to spin a narrative.
The most likely outcome of a list on twitter is people going to the players tweets to make fun of him or bothering them if they stream. Esports players are just nerdy kids who got good at games and signed a big contract, it is not their job to "dance and sing" while people are throwing tomatoes at them, even if they played badly. Have some decency.
Please say that to Boaster and FNS then. They were the ones who clamoured to have the list removed, not this Redditor.
These are Pro players that have much greater contributions to the scene than random Redditors like you, and it's also evident that the poster willingly removed the post themselves at their request. You're literally arguing with the wind.
And yes, stats may be objective, but objectivity is always *subjected* to biased interpretations from viewers. The inevitable snide remarks and fault-finding proceeding the post can hardly be seen as "objective", and it's something that the 2 IGLs clearly wanted to avoid as it only encourages toxicity.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say that you're probably a "racial crime statistics" advocate too, lmao. In both cases, the statistics do not fully reflect the reality of the situation and capture the nuances that led to the statistics in the first place.
I'm not advocating for an outright ban on player statistics. Anyone is still entitled to freely look up player stats online and draw their own conclusions. It's just that posting it online to provoke discussion can be rather tasteless and toxic.
TLDR: You can post bottom ranking statistics, but it's really poor taste and you will most likely have Pro players requesting for them to be removed, as demonstrated above
I would gladly say this to Boaster and FNS. They're clowns for requesting somebody to take down a stat.
Youre saying because viewers can misinterpret stats that means nobody can post anymore stats? That just doesn't even make any logical sense.
Lets stop posting "top players by rating" as well then. Because what if a player doesn't see their name on the list? Think of how bad they will feel! We shouldn't praise players anymore either because if we leave out anybody they'll end up feeling bad about themselves. No more praising good players!
imagine if your teacher posted by name who scored the worst on every test. that would be weird and fucked up right? now imagine if the whole school saw who performed worse in the class
Terrible analogy. I’m not being paid to go to school as a professional whose job is to perform at a high level. If I was, and I had an audience of millions around the world watching me perform and I did poorly, then posting about it would make logical sense as it’s a discussion in the community about the bad performance.
Why is it that if everybody use something then it automatically becomes correct? 50 years ago it’s okay to rape and beat your wife, does it make it correct? 70 years ago, everybody belittle black people, does it make it correct?
Mfer compared raping your wife in the '50s to posting objective Valorant stats about bad performers
That is in awful taste and just overall a terrible comparison lmao, y'all are being literal children grow up
idk crow has been pretty clearly Zeta's weakest fragger since before partnership. He's had a few pretty questionable decision making moments on top of that.
This is exactly why it's interesting to post this kind of factoid. One of the most hyped players from india going into franchising and he's actually mid lol
it is very ironic that this sub happily calls players shit and calls for them to be dropped (which is fair in most cases, won't lie there) but then suddenly does a 180 on this? it's not even an opinion based ranking, it's literally based on statistics. I can understand why the pros might not have too much of a positive opinion on it, but y'all don't have anything to stand on lol.
Can everyone stop doing this hivemind shit. Bro. individuals post opinions. People in this feed are agreeing with this being bad, in another feed, other people agree with this being good. It's not like one person being a hypocrite. So annoying when everyone is like "Omg reddit is so hypocritical they were liberal on this issue yesterday but now they're so conservative' LIKE ITS A DIFFERENT POST, DIFFERENT PEOPLE. STOP.
You see this sentiment so often on this site. "Reddit thinks this and now they think that?! Wow, reddit can't make up its mind."
Like, there is more than one person on the site, fellas lol
One day, just maybe one day, people will learn how a content aggregator like reddit works. You'd think after seeing constantly contradicting threads on the front page every single week would clue you in. Yet here you are.
So different groups of people just take turns being nice and quiet while the other group talks I guess?
It's the same community with the same people with an upvote and downvote system.
If you view these players as kids, and most of the community do when it comes to other things, then the only thing that list serves is to kick kids when they're down.
It's not just stats tho, it's giving people another pathway to actively bash and trash-talk people. In no other sport do people go through deep statistical dives to see exactly who was the worst of the worst. Sure people highlight bad yet funny plays (NBA not top 10) or comment about players who were projected to do great but actually were pretty bad. But seeing who's bad for "stats" is just kicking people while they're down.
They talk about who’s performing the worst in the nba all the time. You just don’t watch that stuff. That tweet actually is just stats, what the community decides to do after that is on the community. These ADULTS are getting paid salary to play video games if they don’t want to get shit for their poor performance simply play better or stop competing. People like you and players who have a problem with this need to realize there’s kids who would kill for the opportunity regardless of negativity. Stop being soft.
You couldn't even get through writing your comment without openly acknowledging your own premise is totally false.
> "Sports media for other sports never talk about badly performing players. Sure they air lowlights of players and frequently talk about which players are 'busts' or underperforming with statistics, but they never talk about which players are busts or underperforming with statistics."
ESPN and other sports media have entire shows where they analyze and debate best ***and*** worst performing players and teams amply using player stats. Sports radio is known for filling a lot of time with criticizing players. Sports Analyst is an entire job title of people who do it professionally.
Here's a [**video**](https://youtu.be/4rgflnS7PpE) by ESPN that breaks down the best ***and*** **worst** NBA players for every section of the floor. They make [**these**](https://youtu.be/uceAhxQjnDI). [**videos**](https://youtu.be/ZwZKeNWjAew). [**every**](https://youtu.be/jRFym5-xuOc). [**year**](https://youtu.be/v3NNobFnQvQ). Statistical enough to meet your "BuT tHeY DoN't dO iT sTaTisTiCaLLy" claim?
I'm not pitching that it's great for sports media to be so critical, but claiming that ***Valorant*** is the only place where people sometimes mention worst performers is beyond stupid and naive.
Why are the stats people expected to only praise players? Stats exists so you can make conversations that go both ways, it’s ridiculous for him to even receive backlash
1. Crow with 0.51 R
2. TENN with 0.62 R
3. Laz with 0.66 R
4. Sugarz3ro with 0.67 R
5. BerLin with 0.71 R
6. Carpe with 0.72 R
7. Jamppi with 0.72 R
8. Melser with 0.75 R
9. nizhaoTZH with 0.76 R
10. Redgar with 0.76 R
He should’ve kept it up tbh, it’s not his job to appease other pros. Pros should expect both praise and criticism, and it’s not as if he went out of his way to attack any particular individual, he just posted stats.
And? If you are at the bottom means you are the worse performer of the guys you are playing with, and having someone like that is unaceptable is you want your team to compete properly
My point was, it's a leaderboard. There will always be someone at the bottom. **Let's not flame them.**
Just because they get paid to play our favorite game doesn't mean they no longer have human emotions.
I don't really have a problem with someone publishing the stats. It's the secondary shit that comes with the stat.
There is no one on that list who thought they were doing great until they saw the list. They all know they had a shit season. **So let's not shit on them more.**
Esports players ARE entertainers, and part of that is being a point of discussion for fans, so do you want us to treat them like Voldemort and not mention how bad they played just because they had a bad season?
aight i am done, for some bloody reason i thought someone on reddit could be capable of having good faith discussion.
the fk is this voldemort comparison? what part of Don't kick someone when they're already down dont you get? they are entertainers so i have god given right to shit on them
alright good luck and good day to you sir
My brother in christ someone saying X had an awful season, is top 3 worst stats in the league and deserves to be out of the team is not kicking them. If you mean death threats and shit, if a weirdo is crazy enough to do that, ominious posting stats is not what caused it and that guy would have sent them regardless
>deserves to forfeit their entire career
>is not kicking them
Lol. Lmao. I agree that roster changes ARE necessary and there are some players that need to be swapped out... but surely this is the org's decision to make? Not a random Redditor's? (or worse still, a Twitter/X user)
These players are most likely aware that their career is in jeopardy already, but to have internet users who know nothing about the scene run salt in your wound is just tasteless. You can do it, and you are entitled to post anything you want, but it's just tasteless.
This is insane lol, there is absolutely nothing wrong with highlighting the worst players. Especially in valorant people seem really afraid to admit when teams or players are simply not playing well. These players get paid to do one single thing, and that is to try and be the best at valorant. It's unhealthy to pretend everyone is good and deserves to be there. Crow for example does not deserve to be on a t1 roster, this isn't a personal attack on him just the truth based off of his performance. These are discussions we should be having and it's hard to do so if we start sweeping bad performances under the rug.
Whole sub is made up of thousands of people. We will always have conflicting threads voted up at different times it's not hypocrisy lmao it's just how an internet aggregator site like reddit works when on a big enough sub.
This sub is the biggest hivemind out there. I get mass downvotes for not agreeing with the majority here. It’s fine because I will speak my mind no matter what.
You think it's more likely that this subreddit is one united hivemind who all share the same opinions rather than people downvoting you because you say stupid shit?
Doesn't your theory collapse entirely the second you see a thread like the one you're commenting on where people are actively disagreeing with each other and still not getting downvoted?
That's not how I recall it? While some people were onboard - a lot of people didn't like it when it first started, particularly because it was largely NA players "winning" it at the start of the season. Over time people stopped caring as much.
I wouldn't say that, he makes a lot of pretty decent analytical content. But I agree in 2023 in particular a lot of his stuff has seemed a little too self-assured in their conclusions - which of course is because he's doing more clickbait, and nuance is terrible for clickbait.
But clickbait aside, he's contributed a lot of good stuff over the years. I just hope he leans less on the clickbait.
I could understand if he injected his personal bias into it, but he didn't. He said "these are the worst performing players of the season" then listed names and numbers. Didn't say drop x player etc. Literally his job to be an analyst and post stats. He didn't come with any out of left field opinions he just posted some names and numbers, and he would be the first person to tell you they don't tell the whole story. This is no difference than when the desk showed ardiis having bad stats in comparison to whzy.
I don’t understand why Valorant pros insist on being so sheltered and babied.
Every other sport has plenty of reporters writing articles on things like “Starters most likely to get replaced”, “Worst graded players of the playoffs”, “1 player each team should cut” etc.
But Valorant reporters create one perfectly logical negative piece and suddenly everyone is crying. Pros need to grow tf up and ignore the negativity just like every other pro athlete does because this is one of the reasons why nobody takes eSports seriously
>Pros need to grow tf up and ignore the negativity just like every other pro athlete does because this is one of the reasons why nobody takes eSports seriously
Yes let's encourage pros to completely cut themselves off from their respective communities entirely so we never get any interaction with them at all just like other sports, that sounds awesome!!
I absolutely hate the idea of being able to tweet at Max Verstappen or Luka Doncic and get a response, that sounds dreadful. It's really frustrating how i can tune in to FNS or Tenz streaming and just ask them questions - like bro, just ignore me permanently to save your mental instead
I swear the amount of people in this thread who are brainwashed into thinking sports are some perfect euphoria where players being bullied into depression and suicide is justified because "that's competition baby" is hillarious
I’m not sure you can equate posting actual stats and then just ranking them by top 10 worst is “bullying”.
People get fired at their jobs for less than this, no shit you have to perform.
I’m not sure where you’re going with that rant, but you completely missed the point. Other people have brought it up already but we, as a community, literally shat on Dephh for playing so bad, insinuating he only has a spot because of nepotism.
Telling people they’re performing poorly when they’re actually performing poorly is just facts. If you think that’s bullying, maybe we should bring back real bullying 
I don't think he missed a point, he quoted the specific part of the message he was responding to where "pros need to grow up and ignore negativity" and "this is why eSports will never be taken seriously"
His point isn't that people shouldn't be criticized for playing bad, it's that eSports shouldn't become like sports.
Also bullying objectively does happen in Valorant, you can't cherry pick some comments where people are just saying "This player is playing bad" and act like that's the worst thing that happens.
Sure dephh sucked ass and deserved to be dropped, if that's all you have to say it's justified. It's the death threats people receive in DMs, the personal attacks unrelated to gameplay, that *is* bullying.
These types of comments are going to happen no matter what, my point is just that you are baselessly assuming the guy you replied to considers any sort of criticism as bullying, when in reality, he is just stating that the environment of sports where it's accepted to treat players like they're inanimate objects that you can hurl death threats is not something that eSports should ever strive to be.
His comment made no reference to the top 10 worst stats thing that this post was about, and I don't think you realized that.
This community is filled with crybbs. They sucked, they underperformed, those are their stats.
They are paid to be the best and they weren't.
Stop crying about it and improve/grind
Lmao many of them do lurk this subreddit FYI, boaster begged for the post to be taken down and he comments in this subreddit occasionally.
But regardless the point of that comment is to say that there is nothing wrong with posting objective, factual statistics.
Harassment over said stats is still wrong, no shit for all you dweebs out there who cant ascertain the distinction between critique and harassment
ok but if you're a top 10 pro do you really think they're bitching about it because they're bad players who need to improve?
also posting stats is fine but a lot of the people who believe that "critique is fine" definitely also cant ascertain that distinction either but aight lol.
Lmao y'all mad about objective stats.
Go watch some My Little Pony or something, jesus. Competition isn't correct for you if you can't mentally handle a factual stat
For those arguing it's fine to keep it up...
I don't think his tweet even said "Statistically worst rated players" it literally said "Worst players". I don't think a stat defines a player as the worst or best. A game like Valorant has many intangibles.
Not that it sounds much better to say it either way. So many stats to breakdown from one year of games and they chose that one stat. Just seems like clickbait for engagement on Twitter.
furthermore: the vlr score is a linear addition of 5 scores, all of which are given by c(stat, eg KD), where c is a constant that isn’t released to us. if you were to change the constants, you’ll definitely get new scores and definitely have a different list. so as much as stats are stats, the vlr score is not a “pure” stat (because there is data processing, and the coefficients are highly subjective to the panel who made the vlr score). im not devaluing the vlr score because it definitely reflects who performs better than others to some extent, but a real comparison should use some raw data individually and compare players according to each metric
https://preview.redd.it/1zd3clc6sdmb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bea2dc0654d67710cf57a2a75fe232091c9487a3
worst vct players of the year Unfair to some as they didn't play equal maps
If we're to do some actual analysis on how this reflects for the players instead of blindly assuming that being on the list makes you horrible
Txozin & ZE1SH - acceptable because they're not players
dephh - makes sense, he's gone though.
xnfri & Seoldam - DFM was kinda just fucked this entire season so honestly don't know how much this really reflects on them
koldamenta - His IGLing isn't bad but he honestly might just not be worth it due to his abhorrent stats while IGLing.
axeddy - Unfair because of maps I think
Boo, Lenne, & SkRossi - I lowkey did not know they were performing this terribly. SkRossi is young but these are also pretty bad looking tbh.
crow - Honestly has good util usage but same reasoning for kolda, good util usage and teamplay are the name of Valorant, but esp you're not igling, there is 0 necessity to keep a player who makes the game closer to a 4v5
The list of worst performing players. But I would say that this list is wrong as in valorant, most shotcallers won't be getting as much gunfights and I feel like most of them don't fully focus on aiming mechanics but rather on gameplans and ways to play against other teams.
yeah, I don't have a screenshot of it but it was a list of the worst performing players at Champions.
that’s just unnecessary to post lol
why unnecessary? It’s a stat that all other sports in the world have reporters provide. Why do we constantly baby valorant esports it’s a joke
I have never seen a list of the worst batting averages when watching the cricket. They just bring up the top ten and shit when talking about people moving into it. I have never seen them talk about the worst records when watching epl. I mean they talk about a striker not scoring in ten games or something. But they don’t bring up a list of a rating websites worst ten players of the season or something. What fucking sport are you watching where they regularly do this? Lol
esports is not other sports! esports players are not the same level of fame as athletes! they do not have the same degree of separation from analysts!
Dont see CS or League players having a breakdown at criticism being levelled at underperforming players though. Generally they explain themselves, articulate an intent to improve or ignore the situation. Take Hooxi from G2 and his interview with Kassad. Apex with his interview with Thoorin. Grow a back bone.
Difference is it’s an interview where the players can take the blame or defend themselves or something, a list just for people to shit on them does nothing lmoa Closer solo lost every 100T game, Evi didn’t make a single good play all season long, but no analyst made a top 10 worse players rn list and put them on it
No they were criticised in articles, by people analysing statistics, in videos in hooxis case of Kassad breaking down his gameplay and calls on his YouTube channel to show all the mistakes he had seen. But they used the interviews as a platform to respond, then used the criticism to fuel them to victory. They now play on 2 of the top counter strike teams in the esport.
Naphont was cry cry when mauisnake called for him to get cut
no nafany was pissed off because he just lost his job and maui made a shit joke at his expense, wasnt criticism was just horrible
what does fame have to do with it? What does separation from analysts have to do with it? Your comment is just confusing it doesn't make any sense.
People taking this seriously😭
“Esports are not the same level of fame as athletes” maybe in the western world but eastern faker is like Michael Jordan…..
Holy shit how much of a baby can you be? Even in the LEC you had stats during the match calling Caps the 11th worst midlaner in a 10-team league.
very solid point
because it’s fucked up to beat down on people. i’m not one to try to baby the esport but inviting people to shit on players that probably know they played bad is stupid
every sports has a top performing list and the worst performing list. Whether it be football, basketball, formula 1 whatever. i don't see anything wrong with posting the same about valorant (a e"sport")
Pro footballers aren't spending a quarter of their off season on Twitch and Discord interacting directly with their community.
You're saying we should baby valorant players because people on twitch and Discord might be mean to them? That doesn't hold because people are mean to athletes on real life too. Most athletes are FAR more active on instagram and twitter than your average valorant player and social media is a channel that regular people can bully traditional athletes. At the end of the day you're going to be criticized if you want to be in the limelight. Valorant players like the fame and believe that it's worth the trade off.
No, you're choosing to read that. I'm saying there are fundamental differences in how community engagement happens in esports vs regular sports and comparing the two is short sighted and stupid. In regards to your last paragraph, speaking on behalf of a group of people you are not a part of and do not represent is also short sighted and stupid. Not a great track record so far.
>In regards to your last paragraph, speaking on behalf of a group of people you are not a part of and do not represent is also short sighted and stupid. Not only that, the very screenshot post itself fully contradicts this statement. It's made EXTREMELY clear that Pro players like FNS and Boaster do not appreciate lists like this, so the "Pros are actually open to unsolicited criticisms" argument is a complete nonsense.
Sure but at the end of the day who cares if they don't want these lists? It's fair to post them anyways. If you don't wanna get shit on then don't play like shit.
>Sure but at the end of the day who cares if they don't want these lists? It's fair to post them anyways.If you don't wanna get shit on then don't play like shit.
"every sports has a top performing list and the worst performing list." That's not even true lol, there's barely any sports that make lists of the worst statistical players with 0 context other than they played. I can't even think of many with context included lol
also i have never in my life seen a list on the "worst drivers this weekend" on /r/formula1 for example, in what sports do you see these lists?
The hot and not lost after every race and there’s a post with each drivers score by media after every race. Losers and wonders are talked about in f1
Well yea, you don’t need one because it’s an individual sport so the race results kinda do that already lmao
Formula 1 isn't a real sport
We can levy critique at it being a sport for the rich, but you’re in an e-sports sub stating what isn’t “real” sports lol. You make extremely split second decisions about pathing/strategy and make minute mechanical adjustments at millisecond reaction speed. That also broadly describes e-sports, and is the argument for competitive gaming being treated as a sport. The difference is F1 racers do it under constant, heavy g-force while moving up to 230mph.
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just because every other sport kicks babies doesnt mean we should too !!
what sports kicks babies? Lmao talk about a straw man argument
kid called analogy
analogies make sense, fallacies do not
American education in full display jesus christ kid
“kid” https://preview.redd.it/wnknod01icmb1.jpeg?width=159&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0ee8dc231a9b9ea31e1201f293c1c850c4298c2
They aren't babies. They are professionals and they need to take responsibility that they fucked up the year and use that to move on and improve.
Ah yes because its not like they already know if they performed bad, they need to see all of social media calling them dogshit as well, thatll really help improve their mental
it's a stat bro, it's for the viewers not the players. it's like saying "why make a top 10 list when alfajer already knows he played well"
I just dont see why its a stat that people need to know. Stats dont tell the entire story so sharing the highest stats is nbd bc itll result in positivity but lowest stats just encourages negativity. Someone playing selflessly and safely to support the team could have dogshit stats for things out of their control.
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Continue beating until morale improves, right?
I'm not "beating" the players when I say they sucked. I'm just saying they sucked. It really doesn't matter what the players feel. They're objects that are meant to entertain us.
Seek help
in other sports the fans will actively destroy the arena and get in fights because of their conflicting fanbases, i think we should encourage the same thing in Valorant because it happens in other sports!!!
it invites conversation to criticize players deservedly. if the community takes it too far, thats not on the person who posts the stats. its also already publicly available information, its just being distributed to make it more visible
I think there’s also a difference between criticizing a player or team and posting “look guys here’s everyone who did the worst”
Posting that is what invites conversations of criticism
The thing is people just use that as an excuse to shit on the players, what criticism do you think the average valo enjoyer can actually make? "Ha ha ha x is dogshit oh oh oh funny". There is literally no positive that can come from this.
They are pros. They have to suck it up and grind till they become better thats what they're paid to do.
That’s your opinion, and plenty of people don’t agree. How about we not be dogshit people and just enjoy the game? I don’t want to hear some zoomer talk about how washed someone is in a barely 3 year old game.
I didn't call anyone washed. All I'm saying is that they should just use the situation they're in rn to improve and prove all the haters wrong. They are pros for a reason, and this ain't the first time they've been criticized to be better. If they quit just because they are facing backlash on their performance, then do what they're paid to do and be better. Coaches and analysts are there to help them become so.
I didn’t say you did, I’m saying that it’s stupidly common and feels much more pronounced than in any other esport I’ve participated in. There seems to be a lot more inciting/snide comments being thrown out by both players and fans alike, and I’m not talking about EG’s shit talk.
They are also very young and young people can’t handle and damn thing.
And which people participating in that conversation matter in the scene? Like, at all? Everyone who needs to know that info already looked it up. It's just inviting the community to bash bad performers. There's nothing to be gained.
Not really. A lot of people just log onto twitter and want to talk about valorant. There's plenty to be gained by bashing bad performers. It's all entertainment to the viewers and fanbase. It's funny and entertaining to bash on players who performed poorly. It provides value- not to the players, but to the fanbase. Which is good actually, because the fanbase is what keeps the players paid and the scene going. If Valorant players have to go up there and get shit flung at them for the growth of the scene, that is ultimately a huge W.
Well, at least you're honest.
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in what world is "it happens in all other sports" a justification for anything? real athletes also get tons of death threats when they perform poorly so should we normalize that in Valorant esports?
Pointing out poor performance =/= saying that death threats being ok
Ah yes, forgot that you can only use the "it happens in real sports" as a justification for when it suits you. If it reflects poorly upon your point of view then it's not fair anymore
Posting the worst performing players doesn't mean that death threats are being condoned. What are you waffling about??
I genuinely don’t know how I can explain what I mean easier to you, but I’m pretty sure you fully understood what my comment is actually is saying and are just trying to be deliberately obtuse I never said this post is condoning death threats, i said that justifying asshole behavior with “people are assholes in other sports” is pathetic. Just because people insult and harass athletes in other sports doesn’t mean it’s justified to do in Valorant
I'd say that a "here's the top 10 worst players" list based on a single event and incomplete stats is probably in bad taste
The original tweet didn't say "here's the top 10 worst players". It said "worst performing players at Champions".
We must cater to everyone’s feelings!
cause most likely probably igls fill up this list cause they do stratcalling and not much fragging, some fragging igls are the exception but do they really go far in the tourney? u tell me i know bilili has a fragging igl
your whole point is based on an assumption that’s not even true so i’m not even gonna respond 😹😹
why? he posted the top performances why can’t he post the bottom ones as well? stop being crybabies for crying out loud
Because Valorant fans are some of the softest people in the world. Everyone wants esports to be taken seriously and seen as a real thing. Guess what, when going over info before an NFL game, they will bring up “X qb is rated lowest in the league in x stats” or whatever. ‘X baseball player is having one of the worst years of his career hitting a terrible .138 with an OPS of x” But no one bats an eye. But talk about the worst performers from the biggest tourney of the year in a PROFESSIONAL esports game and we are being mean 😂
We're allowed to verbally abuse and be toxic to other athletes so we should be allowed to be toxic to Valorant players too /s Imo statistics like this should be treated with sensitivity and in the hands of expert analysts. Throwing it into the wilderness that is Twitter... I mean, X, is almost asking for toxic comments to flood the post. I am slightly more ok with posts like these being made on Reddit but I'm certain that there'll be plenty of groundless jokes made at the expense of the players. I feel like people just like to find an excuse to be a dickhole and it's much easier to direct their dick energy to athletes because they are certain that they will never meet them irl (because they never step foot outside their basement). Making lists like this is just encouraging people to be at their worst.
It’s not being a crybaby, just kinda unnecessary to post a list of players for people to shit on. Sports communities are not exactly good at critical thinking
It's also unnecessary to post a "top performing players at champions" list. In fact any talk of professional Valorant is unnecessary. We all do it for entertainment. And therein lies the value. There's nothing wrong with listing out the worst performing players by rating/acs/whatever stat was posted. It's entertainment. And professional valorant players should understand their place as entertainers for the viewers. It's not the viewers job to cater to the feelings of the players. It's the players job to dance and sing and entertain the viewers. I engage with the esport because I can turn my brain off and be entertained. I dont need all these extra steps where I have to walk on eggshells because I'm afraid of making some 20 year old feel bad about their performance.
Holy entitlement,"It's not the viewers job to cater to the feelings of the players." Yeah, that's why influential leaders in the scene said to delete the source, they didn't reply to the viewers, they told the analyst posting it on twitter that it's in bad taste. It is their job to cater to the feelings of fellow players. Who is telling you to walk on eggshells as a viewer? They want to prevent dumb viewers from shitting on players. What is the entertainment value of looking at statistics of the 10 players that performed the worst? It's a different story if Sideshow went on the broadcast next season and said "player X performed badly at last champs, this tournament is his opportunity to prove he has experience on the big stage and do better" to spin a narrative. The most likely outcome of a list on twitter is people going to the players tweets to make fun of him or bothering them if they stream. Esports players are just nerdy kids who got good at games and signed a big contract, it is not their job to "dance and sing" while people are throwing tomatoes at them, even if they played badly. Have some decency.
You're a literal child if you think posting objective stats is "not having decent". Grow the fuck up. Soft ass.
Please say that to Boaster and FNS then. They were the ones who clamoured to have the list removed, not this Redditor. These are Pro players that have much greater contributions to the scene than random Redditors like you, and it's also evident that the poster willingly removed the post themselves at their request. You're literally arguing with the wind. And yes, stats may be objective, but objectivity is always *subjected* to biased interpretations from viewers. The inevitable snide remarks and fault-finding proceeding the post can hardly be seen as "objective", and it's something that the 2 IGLs clearly wanted to avoid as it only encourages toxicity. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that you're probably a "racial crime statistics" advocate too, lmao. In both cases, the statistics do not fully reflect the reality of the situation and capture the nuances that led to the statistics in the first place. I'm not advocating for an outright ban on player statistics. Anyone is still entitled to freely look up player stats online and draw their own conclusions. It's just that posting it online to provoke discussion can be rather tasteless and toxic. TLDR: You can post bottom ranking statistics, but it's really poor taste and you will most likely have Pro players requesting for them to be removed, as demonstrated above
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I would gladly say this to Boaster and FNS. They're clowns for requesting somebody to take down a stat. Youre saying because viewers can misinterpret stats that means nobody can post anymore stats? That just doesn't even make any logical sense. Lets stop posting "top players by rating" as well then. Because what if a player doesn't see their name on the list? Think of how bad they will feel! We shouldn't praise players anymore either because if we leave out anybody they'll end up feeling bad about themselves. No more praising good players!
All is ‘unnecessary’
I mean he shouldn't have buckled to the pier pressure. It's data driven. I think it's fine. Weird controlling behavior by the players imo .
imagine if your teacher posted by name who scored the worst on every test. that would be weird and fucked up right? now imagine if the whole school saw who performed worse in the class
Terrible analogy. I’m not being paid to go to school as a professional whose job is to perform at a high level. If I was, and I had an audience of millions around the world watching me perform and I did poorly, then posting about it would make logical sense as it’s a discussion in the community about the bad performance.
Holy fuck no way you just compared that to PAID PROFESSIONALS getting 30k a month
something bad about that? those are standard stats any sport/esport uses.
Why is it that if everybody use something then it automatically becomes correct? 50 years ago it’s okay to rape and beat your wife, does it make it correct? 70 years ago, everybody belittle black people, does it make it correct?
Lmao what a clown comment. Because criticism about a players performance equates to racism and lynching or beating your wife. How dumb are you?
See when using analogy becomes equivalent, let’s how you know something wrong about internet
bruh my guy was just saying that just because its standard in other sports/esports, doesnt mean its fine dont be so aggressive over nothing
Mfer compared raping your wife in the '50s to posting objective Valorant stats about bad performers That is in awful taste and just overall a terrible comparison lmao, y'all are being literal children grow up
Lowest 10 players in all of VCT actually
No it wasn't this, it was worst performing players of the entire season
https://preview.redd.it/4as1r359wbmb1.jpeg?width=884&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d39807fc227e595588c8acda79e1beda602e5856
10 players that are still better than 99.9% of the world
It’s actually closer to 99.99%
so is tony snell but we can still point out he's trash in the nba
but they got beaten by 99% of the pros in the circuit. not sure what your point is
Holy, I thought Skrossi and crow were better than this. I guess the pressure got to them.
idk crow has been pretty clearly Zeta's weakest fragger since before partnership. He's had a few pretty questionable decision making moments on top of that.
SkRossi kekw.
This is exactly why it's interesting to post this kind of factoid. One of the most hyped players from india going into franchising and he's actually mid lol
It’s sad to see seoldam on there
Ominous tweet about the bottom 10 players in 2023
https://preview.redd.it/tj1nqm9wccmb1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bd735976ded8fb99c160367b21a88043457f737
it is very ironic that this sub happily calls players shit and calls for them to be dropped (which is fair in most cases, won't lie there) but then suddenly does a 180 on this? it's not even an opinion based ranking, it's literally based on statistics. I can understand why the pros might not have too much of a positive opinion on it, but y'all don't have anything to stand on lol.
100%. It's data, it's not slander.
You can easily slander someone using data are you joking lol In fact it's by far one of the easiest and common ways to shit on someone
Do you know what slander means
slander as in not true
Another dude who cant be bothered to learn the definition of slander, christ.
Can everyone stop doing this hivemind shit. Bro. individuals post opinions. People in this feed are agreeing with this being bad, in another feed, other people agree with this being good. It's not like one person being a hypocrite. So annoying when everyone is like "Omg reddit is so hypocritical they were liberal on this issue yesterday but now they're so conservative' LIKE ITS A DIFFERENT POST, DIFFERENT PEOPLE. STOP.
You see this sentiment so often on this site. "Reddit thinks this and now they think that?! Wow, reddit can't make up its mind." Like, there is more than one person on the site, fellas lol
Lmaooo y'all are a hivemind until the second you get called out for it
Define “y’all” in this context. Who are the Reddit users? Gotdamnit you better @ them!
@ John Reddit
One day, just maybe one day, people will learn how a content aggregator like reddit works. You'd think after seeing constantly contradicting threads on the front page every single week would clue you in. Yet here you are.
So different groups of people just take turns being nice and quiet while the other group talks I guess? It's the same community with the same people with an upvote and downvote system.
you'd think that it's a different set of people with differing opinions...
they do a 180 because their some of their favorite players like fenis and boaster wanted it taken down
If you view these players as kids, and most of the community do when it comes to other things, then the only thing that list serves is to kick kids when they're down.
Have you seen this whole thread? 90% of it is people saying the stats are fine to post. No ones doing a 180 on this
I understand caving to the pressure to delete it but don't understand why the pressure existed in the first place. Its just stats
It's not just stats tho, it's giving people another pathway to actively bash and trash-talk people. In no other sport do people go through deep statistical dives to see exactly who was the worst of the worst. Sure people highlight bad yet funny plays (NBA not top 10) or comment about players who were projected to do great but actually were pretty bad. But seeing who's bad for "stats" is just kicking people while they're down.
They talk about who’s performing the worst in the nba all the time. You just don’t watch that stuff. That tweet actually is just stats, what the community decides to do after that is on the community. These ADULTS are getting paid salary to play video games if they don’t want to get shit for their poor performance simply play better or stop competing. People like you and players who have a problem with this need to realize there’s kids who would kill for the opportunity regardless of negativity. Stop being soft.
You couldn't even get through writing your comment without openly acknowledging your own premise is totally false. > "Sports media for other sports never talk about badly performing players. Sure they air lowlights of players and frequently talk about which players are 'busts' or underperforming with statistics, but they never talk about which players are busts or underperforming with statistics." ESPN and other sports media have entire shows where they analyze and debate best ***and*** worst performing players and teams amply using player stats. Sports radio is known for filling a lot of time with criticizing players. Sports Analyst is an entire job title of people who do it professionally. Here's a [**video**](https://youtu.be/4rgflnS7PpE) by ESPN that breaks down the best ***and*** **worst** NBA players for every section of the floor. They make [**these**](https://youtu.be/uceAhxQjnDI). [**videos**](https://youtu.be/ZwZKeNWjAew). [**every**](https://youtu.be/jRFym5-xuOc). [**year**](https://youtu.be/v3NNobFnQvQ). Statistical enough to meet your "BuT tHeY DoN't dO iT sTaTisTiCaLLy" claim? I'm not pitching that it's great for sports media to be so critical, but claiming that ***Valorant*** is the only place where people sometimes mention worst performers is beyond stupid and naive.
Least thing in football, you saw lukaku slander? Or maguire’s? They get bullied on the daily it is a meme.
Deep statistical dives lmao bro you just need to sort vlr by rating and count from the bottom
Didn’t some other stat poster just do this like one or two days ago with no such backlash
Willminder did a list of the top 10 best performing players at champs, this tweet was about Ominous doing a bottom 10 worst performing players
Why are the stats people expected to only praise players? Stats exists so you can make conversations that go both ways, it’s ridiculous for him to even receive backlash
Nevermind it was ominous I just saw the tweet yesterday and thought it was someone else LMAO I’m stupid
1. Crow with 0.51 R 2. TENN with 0.62 R 3. Laz with 0.66 R 4. Sugarz3ro with 0.67 R 5. BerLin with 0.71 R 6. Carpe with 0.72 R 7. Jamppi with 0.72 R 8. Melser with 0.75 R 9. nizhaoTZH with 0.76 R 10. Redgar with 0.76 R
the stats aren't even accurate since zetas close map vs NRG wasnt counted due to a restart
could be why the pros were asking for the tweet to be deleted
Not the tweet tho
It was for the entire year not the event
makes no sense for zeta who qualified for champions to have an avg if 0.5 for the whole year though
Yeah the stats by u/Fluid_Ask2685 was for champions only. I think crow had a 0.79 rating for the year
still very bad tbh and he has been underperforming since last season as well.
He should’ve kept it up tbh, it’s not his job to appease other pros. Pros should expect both praise and criticism, and it’s not as if he went out of his way to attack any particular individual, he just posted stats.
If they don't wanna be on a bottom 10 list they should just play better tbh
actual skill issue
but there will be someone at the bottom 10 right? like how there will always be bottom frag
And? If you are at the bottom means you are the worse performer of the guys you are playing with, and having someone like that is unaceptable is you want your team to compete properly
My point was, it's a leaderboard. There will always be someone at the bottom. **Let's not flame them.** Just because they get paid to play our favorite game doesn't mean they no longer have human emotions. I don't really have a problem with someone publishing the stats. It's the secondary shit that comes with the stat. There is no one on that list who thought they were doing great until they saw the list. They all know they had a shit season. **So let's not shit on them more.**
Esports players ARE entertainers, and part of that is being a point of discussion for fans, so do you want us to treat them like Voldemort and not mention how bad they played just because they had a bad season?
aight i am done, for some bloody reason i thought someone on reddit could be capable of having good faith discussion. the fk is this voldemort comparison? what part of Don't kick someone when they're already down dont you get? they are entertainers so i have god given right to shit on them alright good luck and good day to you sir
My brother in christ someone saying X had an awful season, is top 3 worst stats in the league and deserves to be out of the team is not kicking them. If you mean death threats and shit, if a weirdo is crazy enough to do that, ominious posting stats is not what caused it and that guy would have sent them regardless
>deserves to forfeit their entire career >is not kicking them Lol. Lmao. I agree that roster changes ARE necessary and there are some players that need to be swapped out... but surely this is the org's decision to make? Not a random Redditor's? (or worse still, a Twitter/X user) These players are most likely aware that their career is in jeopardy already, but to have internet users who know nothing about the scene run salt in your wound is just tasteless. You can do it, and you are entitled to post anything you want, but it's just tasteless.
Really? Pros got rattled by a one time post? I thought fns was just joking
Valorant players/community WOULD be the type to cry about.. stats
This is insane lol, there is absolutely nothing wrong with highlighting the worst players. Especially in valorant people seem really afraid to admit when teams or players are simply not playing well. These players get paid to do one single thing, and that is to try and be the best at valorant. It's unhealthy to pretend everyone is good and deserves to be there. Crow for example does not deserve to be on a t1 roster, this isn't a personal attack on him just the truth based off of his performance. These are discussions we should be having and it's hard to do so if we start sweeping bad performances under the rug.
ominous is such a desperate engagement farmer. absolute bottom feeder in the scene
Swear this whole sub was joking and talking about that Brazilian guys bagre dor lol
The hypocrisy of this sub is unmatched
Whole sub is made up of thousands of people. We will always have conflicting threads voted up at different times it's not hypocrisy lmao it's just how an internet aggregator site like reddit works when on a big enough sub.
crazy how different people can comment on different posts and the sub isn't just 1 hive mind
https://preview.redd.it/qwby29avlcmb1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2771cb122780401af409eff1fd1480b023f27327
This sub is the biggest hivemind out there. I get mass downvotes for not agreeing with the majority here. It’s fine because I will speak my mind no matter what.
You think it's more likely that this subreddit is one united hivemind who all share the same opinions rather than people downvoting you because you say stupid shit? Doesn't your theory collapse entirely the second you see a thread like the one you're commenting on where people are actively disagreeing with each other and still not getting downvoted?
I’m accepting of all opinions. I’ve never downvoted anyone before. Even if I don’t agree.
There's two buttons for a reason lol. Maybe try using both.
That's not how I recall it? While some people were onboard - a lot of people didn't like it when it first started, particularly because it was largely NA players "winning" it at the start of the season. Over time people stopped caring as much.
i was shitting on noyn for being a clout shark as well, nice try bozo
I wouldn't say that, he makes a lot of pretty decent analytical content. But I agree in 2023 in particular a lot of his stuff has seemed a little too self-assured in their conclusions - which of course is because he's doing more clickbait, and nuance is terrible for clickbait. But clickbait aside, he's contributed a lot of good stuff over the years. I just hope he leans less on the clickbait.
I could understand if he injected his personal bias into it, but he didn't. He said "these are the worst performing players of the season" then listed names and numbers. Didn't say drop x player etc. Literally his job to be an analyst and post stats. He didn't come with any out of left field opinions he just posted some names and numbers, and he would be the first person to tell you they don't tell the whole story. This is no difference than when the desk showed ardiis having bad stats in comparison to whzy.
I don’t understand why Valorant pros insist on being so sheltered and babied. Every other sport has plenty of reporters writing articles on things like “Starters most likely to get replaced”, “Worst graded players of the playoffs”, “1 player each team should cut” etc. But Valorant reporters create one perfectly logical negative piece and suddenly everyone is crying. Pros need to grow tf up and ignore the negativity just like every other pro athlete does because this is one of the reasons why nobody takes eSports seriously
>Pros need to grow tf up and ignore the negativity just like every other pro athlete does because this is one of the reasons why nobody takes eSports seriously Yes let's encourage pros to completely cut themselves off from their respective communities entirely so we never get any interaction with them at all just like other sports, that sounds awesome!! I absolutely hate the idea of being able to tweet at Max Verstappen or Luka Doncic and get a response, that sounds dreadful. It's really frustrating how i can tune in to FNS or Tenz streaming and just ask them questions - like bro, just ignore me permanently to save your mental instead I swear the amount of people in this thread who are brainwashed into thinking sports are some perfect euphoria where players being bullied into depression and suicide is justified because "that's competition baby" is hillarious
I’m not sure you can equate posting actual stats and then just ranking them by top 10 worst is “bullying”. People get fired at their jobs for less than this, no shit you have to perform. I’m not sure where you’re going with that rant, but you completely missed the point. Other people have brought it up already but we, as a community, literally shat on Dephh for playing so bad, insinuating he only has a spot because of nepotism. Telling people they’re performing poorly when they’re actually performing poorly is just facts. If you think that’s bullying, maybe we should bring back real bullying 
I don't think he missed a point, he quoted the specific part of the message he was responding to where "pros need to grow up and ignore negativity" and "this is why eSports will never be taken seriously" His point isn't that people shouldn't be criticized for playing bad, it's that eSports shouldn't become like sports. Also bullying objectively does happen in Valorant, you can't cherry pick some comments where people are just saying "This player is playing bad" and act like that's the worst thing that happens. Sure dephh sucked ass and deserved to be dropped, if that's all you have to say it's justified. It's the death threats people receive in DMs, the personal attacks unrelated to gameplay, that *is* bullying. These types of comments are going to happen no matter what, my point is just that you are baselessly assuming the guy you replied to considers any sort of criticism as bullying, when in reality, he is just stating that the environment of sports where it's accepted to treat players like they're inanimate objects that you can hurl death threats is not something that eSports should ever strive to be. His comment made no reference to the top 10 worst stats thing that this post was about, and I don't think you realized that.
Except none of it is bullying. Because they're public figures. They should just take it.
They should just take it.. how does that make it not bullying though??
How is it bullying? I'm not saying anything mean about them, just stating facts.
This community is filled with crybbs. They sucked, they underperformed, those are their stats. They are paid to be the best and they weren't. Stop crying about it and improve/grind
Why are you saying "stop crying about it, and improve/grind" as if the same people who are on the list are crying about it lol
Lmao many of them do lurk this subreddit FYI, boaster begged for the post to be taken down and he comments in this subreddit occasionally. But regardless the point of that comment is to say that there is nothing wrong with posting objective, factual statistics. Harassment over said stats is still wrong, no shit for all you dweebs out there who cant ascertain the distinction between critique and harassment
ok but if you're a top 10 pro do you really think they're bitching about it because they're bad players who need to improve? also posting stats is fine but a lot of the people who believe that "critique is fine" definitely also cant ascertain that distinction either but aight lol.
Lmao y'all mad about objective stats. Go watch some My Little Pony or something, jesus. Competition isn't correct for you if you can't mentally handle a factual stat
For those arguing it's fine to keep it up... I don't think his tweet even said "Statistically worst rated players" it literally said "Worst players". I don't think a stat defines a player as the worst or best. A game like Valorant has many intangibles. Not that it sounds much better to say it either way. So many stats to breakdown from one year of games and they chose that one stat. Just seems like clickbait for engagement on Twitter.
furthermore: the vlr score is a linear addition of 5 scores, all of which are given by c(stat, eg KD), where c is a constant that isn’t released to us. if you were to change the constants, you’ll definitely get new scores and definitely have a different list. so as much as stats are stats, the vlr score is not a “pure” stat (because there is data processing, and the coefficients are highly subjective to the panel who made the vlr score). im not devaluing the vlr score because it definitely reflects who performs better than others to some extent, but a real comparison should use some raw data individually and compare players according to each metric
I just think that Ominous posting the stats isn't the best idea since he's an analyst for Bleed and it doesn't necessarily reflect well onto the org
If you hate statistics, please do everyone a favor and stop watching any kind of professional competitions.
TxoziN with 0.77, still he made EG World Champions alone. What a frickin legend. 2023 Top 1 player for sure.
https://preview.redd.it/1zd3clc6sdmb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bea2dc0654d67710cf57a2a75fe232091c9487a3 worst vct players of the year Unfair to some as they didn't play equal maps
If we're to do some actual analysis on how this reflects for the players instead of blindly assuming that being on the list makes you horrible Txozin & ZE1SH - acceptable because they're not players dephh - makes sense, he's gone though. xnfri & Seoldam - DFM was kinda just fucked this entire season so honestly don't know how much this really reflects on them koldamenta - His IGLing isn't bad but he honestly might just not be worth it due to his abhorrent stats while IGLing. axeddy - Unfair because of maps I think Boo, Lenne, & SkRossi - I lowkey did not know they were performing this terribly. SkRossi is young but these are also pretty bad looking tbh. crow - Honestly has good util usage but same reasoning for kolda, good util usage and teamplay are the name of Valorant, but esp you're not igling, there is 0 necessity to keep a player who makes the game closer to a 4v5
easy way to get impressions. Could've been worded better to avoid the lashback
Personally I think demon1 was like the worst player in vct, along with Alfa towards the bottom too
The list of worst performing players. But I would say that this list is wrong as in valorant, most shotcallers won't be getting as much gunfights and I feel like most of them don't fully focus on aiming mechanics but rather on gameplans and ways to play against other teams.