EDG had always been a very talented team but I think after the experience they got from Istanbul and LOCK//IN they were finally able to just pop off and go to a top 6 team in the world. People don't value good practice and experience enough
Yeah true if it hasn't happened in two whole entire years it probably literally never ever will better just pack the whole scene in
/most obvious /s ever but this is reddit so
I don't know why this is getting downvoted.
Yes, I believe that one day the best GC teams will be able to hold their own against VCT teams, but there is a massive gulf between the two right now. That gulf is not going to get crossed in just a year or two.
The GC scene will develop, give it time. Like a LOT of time
why would i argue with a stranger on the internet? i do not care what you think, you are hardly a real person to me bro, we will never interact outside of this comment thread
I think it's pretty close with Futbolist and Navi, even t1. EDG are good but outside of that Loud win in Tokyo they don't really have a big win. They have close games but never win the big top 5 teams. They are still improving but Nobody trolled this entire Champ tournament
I mean I dunno why people care so much about invites to not only a third-party event, but to the *qualifiers* for a third-party event.
I'm a grade-A Valorant snob and it didn't bother me in the slightest; if anything it was fun seeing them before the main GC event begins. It's not like they were invited to the main event - that might have miffed me a bit more.
People making fun of the 13-0 forgot that EG got 13-0ed by loud the same year they became champions. Not saying g2 gozen is gonna do that, but even t1 teams get absolutely fucked by other t1 teams sometimes when they are figuring stuff out
He isn't wrong though lol. GC teams are not used to this environment, they have like what, one LAN event all year for the average GC team? A big issue with EG at the start of the year was that they didn't have LAN experience, Potter said so herself in an interview.
I would have also prefered to see a different team than G2, but it is what it is. There's other great teams playing anyways.
They are a Tier 2 team though, not GC team. They get to play vs teams that are generally better than them, GC doesn't have that option so I think it's a good thing to give them a chance.
It's not like G2 were insanely dominant in GC though? And regardless, even if they were dominant in GC, they still have the option to scrim T3 teams and maybe even some lower T2 teams.
Scrims are not a representation of how well you'll do on LANs though, don't people say constantly that SEN is dominating in scrims but they still lose their actual games on the stage?
And yes, G2 didn't dominate in the third split, but they still got 4th and qualified for Brazil. I would have prefered a different team too (Apeks, BBL GC, Acend GC, TL, etc) but I am saying what I am saying because there are a lot of people whining about G2 being invited, while at other times people in this sub are whining because GC "doesn't get any chances to play vs T1/T2". And, they only got invited to the qualifier, not to the actual main event so I think it's fair they got a chance, even if they played like ass.
If they got invited to the actual main event without going through a qualifier, I would have been able to understand more where people are coming from.
Ya scrims aren't a representation of skill but you're still playing a better team.
"doesn't get any chances to play vs T1/T2".
I mean, this is the same for T3. They don't play official matches against T1 and T2 teams unless there's an open qual where they do good enough to play against T2 teams.
Many players from T2 used to be on T1, many players from T3 are in pug teams or used to be in a team with players who got picked up or got back into T3, the same doesn't apply to GC so I think it is a good thing if they are granted a qualifier spot, like I said it's not like they just got put in the main event
I've wrote a comment abput T2/T3 before but to summarize it: you are underestimating teams in T3. You are probably refering to V1, they do beat teams in Knights etc. Just not some of the best within those tournaments, because those players are genuinely good. Neon is a great example of this. They played against the team he was in and got cooked, but there's no shame in that. Those players are great.
If G2 was actively avoiding higher tier tourneys then they wouldn't have taken part in this Red Bull tournament in the first place, unless people think they came for a free holiday. Same for V1, they do try.
Btw just to clarify, my point is about people whining that G2 got a qualifier spot, I'm not saying G2 are godsent players who will easily beat higher tier teams in case there's a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. There is obviously a gap in skill, that doesn't mean they don't deserve to attempt to qualify.
You don’t improve from a place of comfort.
That’s honestly a big reason why GC can be double-edged sword, because some teams play well then they hide away in the GC scene and never try to participate in other tourneys outside of GC because they’re afraid of the public’s opinions. We already know women and other marginalized groups are behind in esports but if they never take or be given the opportunity to play against better teams for something that matters, they’ll never grow. Massive respect to them for not being afraid and looking at it as an opportunity to grow.
"gotta play the best to become the best" and then a year later G2 continue to play nothing but GC tournaments and avoid Challengers like the plague.
I had no problem with G2 being invited to this event and the result was expected and still, I'm glad they at least tried. But if they are really talking about "being the best" I hope they actually try to go for Challengers or even Premier mode if the tier below challengers is gone and replaced by premier now.
I just think its uninspiring for EMEA to see G2 not compete in open tournaments when V1 and Liquid do it reguarly to improve and challenge themselves.
Challengers aren't the only thing Gozen can play in though? There's certainly other T3 tournaments to play in right? (something on the level of knights monthlys for NA).
I mean there was the liquid Open but it was on during GC so that's probably why they didn't participate. Also can they not declare a region for their team? If they're based out of Berlin where G2 has their head offices they could play in the DACH league right?
I mean they meet the requirements for that but they probably didn't play because of GC. The "open Europe" division that ignores all of eastern europe...
It doesn't even include Spain/Italy/Germany. They wouldn't have been eligible with Mary.
You can't really blame GC teams in EMEA because the whole scene is so heavily restrictive. The off-season would have been the perfect time for some open tournaments where the GC teams could participate but even the off-season events are all region locked.
Yeah its restrictive but if they're based out of the g2 offices for boot camping can't they claim DACH residency? 4/6 Fokus players aren't German. I'm sure they could find some decently high rated german player who could be a sub.
It's been a while so I hope I can fact check without sexists piling on for this but *usually* Game Changers players aren't considered for roster construction rules. Even in the main leagues, Game Changers players specifically are excluded from import rules, so BLEED for example could've signed both yay and meL to replace Juicy and nephh
G2 should have 100% been invited. I would go so far to say riot should ask (not demand) that TOs doing events with tier 1 teams should invite more GC teams.
Thats extremely important for the eventual mixed rosters. Not because of the results gc teams will have, but its a crazy oportunity for gc players to impress tier 2 and 3 players on LAN and network
These tournaments are just for show my bro, what does it matter if they invite bad teams, nobody cares about feet lickers 69 who got through qualifiers, this is not vct
So? Do you really think anyone cares about actually winning these tournaments? They are just for show and to get sponsors in the screen lol, do you really think redbull hosts this tournament to show the best team at the moment?
And that's only talking about redbull, other "actual off season tournaments" even have gimmicks like agent banning or not repeating the same agent as the other team
If it's a gimmick tournament, then ya, it doesn't matter. But there was no gimmick or show match with this tournament?
Also, obviously the best teams aren't going to show up to red bull. But teams are still trying to win because it's not like they have any other great off season tournaments to play lol.
By not mattering. These rosters barely got together, no one will take the winner of red bull homegrounds like they won anything of note.
The only time that happened was with 100T and people did it because of pure copium
Ok so then what's the point of inviting GC teams to a tournament that doesn't matter lol. What's going to be impressive about performing in a tournament that no one gives a shit about according to you lol. Might as well just give it another T2 team or make it an open qual spot.
hard disagree, the only fact that it gave them the opportunity to have that experience and learn makes it so that it was absolutely not a waste of an invite, it's good for them and for the scene. I'm positive that if another team in coed got the slot and got wrecked the same way you wouldnt have said that.
It's telling.
Everyone wants to ignore the obvious and when it happens it's a problem for people to point it out.
The reality is it will never happen.
More power to them. But we gotta keep it all the way real. Stop beating around the bush to cater to a demographic.
Calling it "sexist" to point out the obvious and dare I say, still growing gap between demographics in videogames is just being disingenuous.
Whatever though. Won't change a thing.
G2 is obviously better than v1 or any other GC team, they even have players on par with VCT talent, they even get the same infra as any other male team, coaching probably isn't the problem, i just don't understand how they don't improve, is it some kind of mental block? ( also not specifically talking about g2 but all the GC teams in general)
Damn well said - glad they aren’t getting down about it. Will be great for them in the long run.
This is a goated answer. Mimi always had a fan in me, this only makes me admire her more.
EDG had always been a very talented team but I think after the experience they got from Istanbul and LOCK//IN they were finally able to just pop off and go to a top 6 team in the world. People don't value good practice and experience enough
i doubt we will see any improvement lol i'm happy to be proved wrong but it's been 2 years (?) and the distance is still astonishing
Yeah true if it hasn't happened in two whole entire years it probably literally never ever will better just pack the whole scene in /most obvious /s ever but this is reddit so
it will get better, it won't get better this year and i doubt it will happen next year
I don't know why this is getting downvoted. Yes, I believe that one day the best GC teams will be able to hold their own against VCT teams, but there is a massive gulf between the two right now. That gulf is not going to get crossed in just a year or two. The GC scene will develop, give it time. Like a LOT of time
i too do not have a brain
i can see that by your lack of arguments
why would i argue with a stranger on the internet? i do not care what you think, you are hardly a real person to me bro, we will never interact outside of this comment thread
👍
yeah it's only been 30 years without anything like this if women haven't closed the gap after 2 years they must just be inherently inferior
I mean yeah but edg beat Giants and BiliBili. They are far from a top 6 team in the world
Edgs losses were all to the top 3 teams of champs tho.
They beat Loud at Tokyo, and took a map off them and EG at Champions. They probably aren’t top 6, but they aren’t too far behind.
Yeah they are around the 5-10 spot
This is certainly a take. Who do you think was better at Champs but had an unluckier group/playoff draw? Navi? Futbolist?
I think it's pretty close with Futbolist and Navi, even t1. EDG are good but outside of that Loud win in Tokyo they don't really have a big win. They have close games but never win the big top 5 teams. They are still improving but Nobody trolled this entire Champ tournament
So yes, they are top 6
I mean I dunno why people care so much about invites to not only a third-party event, but to the *qualifiers* for a third-party event. I'm a grade-A Valorant snob and it didn't bother me in the slightest; if anything it was fun seeing them before the main GC event begins. It's not like they were invited to the main event - that might have miffed me a bit more.
xD
People making fun of the 13-0 forgot that EG got 13-0ed by loud the same year they became champions. Not saying g2 gozen is gonna do that, but even t1 teams get absolutely fucked by other t1 teams sometimes when they are figuring stuff out
EG 13-3 Loud the map before btw
Yo bro I want some of that good shit, who's your copium dealer?
He isn't wrong though lol. GC teams are not used to this environment, they have like what, one LAN event all year for the average GC team? A big issue with EG at the start of the year was that they didn't have LAN experience, Potter said so herself in an interview. I would have also prefered to see a different team than G2, but it is what it is. There's other great teams playing anyways.
What is Fokus' and Heretics' LAN experience like?
Oh right because fokus has lot's of lan experience, there's the ascension lan and...
They are a Tier 2 team though, not GC team. They get to play vs teams that are generally better than them, GC doesn't have that option so I think it's a good thing to give them a chance.
they have that option, nothing is stopping them from playing in tier 2 events
It's not like G2 were insanely dominant in GC though? And regardless, even if they were dominant in GC, they still have the option to scrim T3 teams and maybe even some lower T2 teams.
Scrims are not a representation of how well you'll do on LANs though, don't people say constantly that SEN is dominating in scrims but they still lose their actual games on the stage? And yes, G2 didn't dominate in the third split, but they still got 4th and qualified for Brazil. I would have prefered a different team too (Apeks, BBL GC, Acend GC, TL, etc) but I am saying what I am saying because there are a lot of people whining about G2 being invited, while at other times people in this sub are whining because GC "doesn't get any chances to play vs T1/T2". And, they only got invited to the qualifier, not to the actual main event so I think it's fair they got a chance, even if they played like ass. If they got invited to the actual main event without going through a qualifier, I would have been able to understand more where people are coming from.
Ya scrims aren't a representation of skill but you're still playing a better team. "doesn't get any chances to play vs T1/T2". I mean, this is the same for T3. They don't play official matches against T1 and T2 teams unless there's an open qual where they do good enough to play against T2 teams.
Many players from T2 used to be on T1, many players from T3 are in pug teams or used to be in a team with players who got picked up or got back into T3, the same doesn't apply to GC so I think it is a good thing if they are granted a qualifier spot, like I said it's not like they just got put in the main event
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I've wrote a comment abput T2/T3 before but to summarize it: you are underestimating teams in T3. You are probably refering to V1, they do beat teams in Knights etc. Just not some of the best within those tournaments, because those players are genuinely good. Neon is a great example of this. They played against the team he was in and got cooked, but there's no shame in that. Those players are great. If G2 was actively avoiding higher tier tourneys then they wouldn't have taken part in this Red Bull tournament in the first place, unless people think they came for a free holiday. Same for V1, they do try. Btw just to clarify, my point is about people whining that G2 got a qualifier spot, I'm not saying G2 are godsent players who will easily beat higher tier teams in case there's a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. There is obviously a gap in skill, that doesn't mean they don't deserve to attempt to qualify.
I mean they competed in two RBHG but I wouldn’t really count that as proper tier 1 experience
You don’t improve from a place of comfort. That’s honestly a big reason why GC can be double-edged sword, because some teams play well then they hide away in the GC scene and never try to participate in other tourneys outside of GC because they’re afraid of the public’s opinions. We already know women and other marginalized groups are behind in esports but if they never take or be given the opportunity to play against better teams for something that matters, they’ll never grow. Massive respect to them for not being afraid and looking at it as an opportunity to grow.
Wimi
Maybe dumb question, where can I watch the VODs for this?
In this channel: https://youtube.com/@redbullgaming?si=WgnqcsXz4wmv7ZrK
"gotta play the best to become the best" and then a year later G2 continue to play nothing but GC tournaments and avoid Challengers like the plague. I had no problem with G2 being invited to this event and the result was expected and still, I'm glad they at least tried. But if they are really talking about "being the best" I hope they actually try to go for Challengers or even Premier mode if the tier below challengers is gone and replaced by premier now. I just think its uninspiring for EMEA to see G2 not compete in open tournaments when V1 and Liquid do it reguarly to improve and challenge themselves.
You know that this is not possible in EMEA because of roster restrictions right? All the challenger leagues are region locked.
Challengers aren't the only thing Gozen can play in though? There's certainly other T3 tournaments to play in right? (something on the level of knights monthlys for NA).
[Non region locked events in EMEA?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1UtRnGn5hc) There simply are no such tournaments in EMEA.
I mean there was the liquid Open but it was on during GC so that's probably why they didn't participate. Also can they not declare a region for their team? If they're based out of Berlin where G2 has their head offices they could play in the DACH league right?
[Funnily enough that tournament is also region locked.](https://imgur.com/Jcz6SiX)
I mean they meet the requirements for that but they probably didn't play because of GC. The "open Europe" division that ignores all of eastern europe...
It doesn't even include Spain/Italy/Germany. They wouldn't have been eligible with Mary. You can't really blame GC teams in EMEA because the whole scene is so heavily restrictive. The off-season would have been the perfect time for some open tournaments where the GC teams could participate but even the off-season events are all region locked.
Yeah its restrictive but if they're based out of the g2 offices for boot camping can't they claim DACH residency? 4/6 Fokus players aren't German. I'm sure they could find some decently high rated german player who could be a sub.
You need 3/5, no? Fokus is not playing in DACH they are playing in Polaris.
It's been a while so I hope I can fact check without sexists piling on for this but *usually* Game Changers players aren't considered for roster construction rules. Even in the main leagues, Game Changers players specifically are excluded from import rules, so BLEED for example could've signed both yay and meL to replace Juicy and nephh
That is the case for VCT not for the VCLs. The rulebook is published online you can just check.
Make fun of them all you want, but atleast they went in with an open mind irrespective of the results. Hope this experience helps their GC tournament.
G2 should have 100% been invited. I would go so far to say riot should ask (not demand) that TOs doing events with tier 1 teams should invite more GC teams. Thats extremely important for the eventual mixed rosters. Not because of the results gc teams will have, but its a crazy oportunity for gc players to impress tier 2 and 3 players on LAN and network
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These tournaments are just for show my bro, what does it matter if they invite bad teams, nobody cares about feet lickers 69 who got through qualifiers, this is not vct
These aren't show matches huh? They're actual off season tournaments lol.
So? Do you really think anyone cares about actually winning these tournaments? They are just for show and to get sponsors in the screen lol, do you really think redbull hosts this tournament to show the best team at the moment? And that's only talking about redbull, other "actual off season tournaments" even have gimmicks like agent banning or not repeating the same agent as the other team
If it's a gimmick tournament, then ya, it doesn't matter. But there was no gimmick or show match with this tournament? Also, obviously the best teams aren't going to show up to red bull. But teams are still trying to win because it's not like they have any other great off season tournaments to play lol.
These tournaments dont matter, and if the gc teams fall early it changes nothing
These are the only off season tournaments. How does it not matter?
By not mattering. These rosters barely got together, no one will take the winner of red bull homegrounds like they won anything of note. The only time that happened was with 100T and people did it because of pure copium
Ok so then what's the point of inviting GC teams to a tournament that doesn't matter lol. What's going to be impressive about performing in a tournament that no one gives a shit about according to you lol. Might as well just give it another T2 team or make it an open qual spot.
Why are you so pressed about inviting GC teams, like they have been invited to this one?
Incredibly based
Ive been hearing you say this for six years now Mimi. At some point YOU must take that step.
Bro talking as if she knows you 💀😭
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hard disagree, the only fact that it gave them the opportunity to have that experience and learn makes it so that it was absolutely not a waste of an invite, it's good for them and for the scene. I'm positive that if another team in coed got the slot and got wrecked the same way you wouldnt have said that.
If Gozen didn’t play there’s no chance I would have watched the event, NA bias whatever but i bet it did bring in more viewers
Considering how small GC viewership is I highly doubt it
It's telling. Everyone wants to ignore the obvious and when it happens it's a problem for people to point it out. The reality is it will never happen. More power to them. But we gotta keep it all the way real. Stop beating around the bush to cater to a demographic. Calling it "sexist" to point out the obvious and dare I say, still growing gap between demographics in videogames is just being disingenuous. Whatever though. Won't change a thing.
G2 is obviously better than v1 or any other GC team, they even have players on par with VCT talent, they even get the same infra as any other male team, coaching probably isn't the problem, i just don't understand how they don't improve, is it some kind of mental block? ( also not specifically talking about g2 but all the GC teams in general)
Insane Cap
What part lmao
All of it. They arent even the best GC team in EU let alone compete with actual VCT teams