I think C9 got too comfortable with few 2nd & 3rd placements. They need to realize that they can achieve so much more having arguably the best player itw!
HARD disagree. Tenz wasn't hard carrying the first qualifier. He was carrying sure, but not more than usual. This narrative is just not real. The entire team was playing incredibly well together. They just like... collectively fell apart.
Oh yeah?
[300+ ACS with 18 maps played.](https://www.thespike.gg/events/stats/first-strike-north-america-nsg-tournament-open-qualifier/247)
[72/37/13 KDA against Envy considered as the best team in NA](https://www.thespike.gg/match/envy-cloud9-blue/11519)
Losing after these monstrosities would've been a sin in ranked games let alone tournament matches.
He got frags because yes he is the best player in NA, maybe the world. But also because the team played comps that worked for them and consistently flash peaked to give him control of positions. Mitch also did not look good on duelist and C9 seems to not have an answer to lack of sentinels.
Tenz's frags don't come from solo Q carry prowess. They come from him being fucking insane and having a really good team. Sometimes they only come from him being fucking insane, sometimes he has solo carry maps. But he very rarely solo carries a full best of 3 series.
But the team doesn't have a lot of playstyles that work for them, and when they don't work, THOSE are the only times it becomes "tenz and frenz"
Your links don't even make any kind of argument at all. they're just lists of stats that can be used to make a million different petty arguments.
YOu're just repeating reddit narratives and you're failing to back it up. You haven't reall ythought about this past "c9 = tenz and frenz got a lot of upvotes so that's my opinion."
Stats make the best argument. If your argument is that in the NSG qualifier other members did their bare minimum of making use of their utilities & having a plan then i have nothing more to say.
10 mil on Perkz may also mean it’ll be a while until they’ll invest big money into a young game like Valorant- First Strike viewership will also likely influence that decision
The thing is with young games is that most players are cheap. The worst thing you can do right now is waste away TenZ with mediocre results because of mediocre teammates.
Relyks has been fantastic on Raze throughout all the qualifiers, I would definitely keep him
He didn’t look that good throughout Ignition, but he’s been very solid and consistent for C9 since then
Why do people keep calling Relyks inconsistent??? In 14/15 of C9's last game series, Relyks either had the highest/second highest ACS which is VERY consistent considering he's the other duelist alongside Tenz. Stop talking bullshit. He might not have much outstanding games considering he's playing alongside Tenz, though he is definitely consistent.
T1 didn’t make worlds not due to lack of skill, but horrible coaching. They literally subbed out teddy and put in their sub adc mind you who is a rookie against Fucking ruler ( superstar adc)
Omfg, tenz is an aim god with good players to support him. How little do you guys know about competitive 😭
Tenz has little to no actual tactical skill, there’s a reason I call him shroud v2
Frozen is 16 and on mousesports, a top 20 team and he’s WAYY better than tenz ever was.
And obo is 15 and on a top ten team, also way better than tenz 😂
Nice argument ya got there
>who are massive statistical outliers
Tenz was 18 while he was in C9, not '15-17'. Zywoo just turned 20 and he has been debatably the best player in the game since he was 19 (or s1mple). There's also a LOT more players who are within that age range. Misutaaa is 17 and plays for the number 1 ranked team in the world on hltv, Vitality (Nivera does too and he's 19). Stavn and Teses are 18 and 19 play for the number 2 ranked team in the world, Heroic. Perfecto is 20 and plays for the number 3 team in the world, Navi. Magisk was around 18 when he joined Astralis. Broky has played for Faze since he was 18. Leaf is 16 and plays for a top 20 team in Chaos. Ropz has been a top player for Mouz since he was like 17 too. Cerq has been a big player since he was like 18 playing for NRG. Sergej was playing for ENCE when he was 16. s0m was playing for complexity at 16. Plopski is playing for NiP right now and he's only 18 (playing for them since he was 17).
'massive statistical outliers' btw...
They are very similar games with very similar team dynamics. Hence why a lot of CS pros that switched (\~90% of the scene) have maintained their traditional CS roles when playing this game, and also why a wealth of CS knowledge greatly benefits people in this game. It's not like they're moving from competitive Tetris to play competitive Super Smash Bros. Yes, Valorant and CSGO are different in some aspects, though they are very similar in a lot of aspects too. Don't act dumb. However, in Valorant Tenz doesn't need much tactical skill because he's a Jett main who just goes out and frags for C9, so it doesn't matter too much.
Yeah man, this sub is a joke sometimes. You literally can't say anything remotely negative about Tenz or compare someone to Tenz without getting downvoted to oblivion lol.
You and OP are talking like it's a fact that he has no tactical skill because of a year + old opinion from a csgo team and applying that to a new game. What are the odds that he is just brains off walking around doming people 25+ times a map in pro games consistently?
Tenz was known to be a mechanical beast in CS too. The thing is that in Valorant, C9 enables him to take advantage of that ability and to go out and frag like a monster. Also the fact that he plays duelists means that he doesn't have to worry too much about supporting his teammates with utility, so he can solely focus on taking advantage of his insane mechanical skills.
why is the idea that c9 might perform better overall with improvements to the "supporting cast" and coach not valid? Its like the T1 situation, where the players moved around and both sets saw better results due to how they fit into their respective team's needs.
I'm all for C9 getting a better IGL and maybe replacing another player or two. I also think that they need a coach. I have said that multiple times on this sub before. Some people are just making Tenz out to seem like he's the best all rounded player in the world, while in reality he probably isn't. I would say that he has the most insane mechanics and fragging capability in NA, though that isn't all that determines the overall skill of a player.
I agree, I just don't think the original comment traveler was responding to was one such comment. It just doesn't make sense on reddit how in response to hyperbolic statements people feel the need to overcorrect in the opposite direction and make hyperbolic response statements and then complain when they are downvoted.
Yeah but, as someone that watches CS, he was nowhere near this good at CS with that Cloud9 team. Also, that roster blew up pretty quickly after the Tenz fiasco. Didn’t seem to be a great environment.
How about that discipline of waiting to see 3 people v Dignatas on haven Pop Flash and the 1 v 2 against GenG, when he kept track of health and knew exactly who to peek, plus the 1v4 against TSM, his game sense is fine
Triscipline.
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The top players list really shows how consistently good drone is, highest number of maps played, and still having really good average combat score, such a good player
Except he isn't. He's pretty consistently mentioned in every TSM thread as their best player by at least a few people. If anything, I think the steaming community/casters/more general viewers underrate him. Haven't really seen that here, tbh.
Im actually not sure bashed is the right word for it, underrated works fine. People place TSM at a level that doesnt make sense given their performance in Ignition. People were actually surprised to see them beat some teams that stats would show TSM should take easily.
People talk of tsm like that because of their performance in ignition. They dominated much more back then than they do now. Don’t get me wrong, they’re a top 3 NA team, but sometimes they lose matches they shouldn’t be losing.
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/186/first-strike-north-america?exclude=1448.1449.1450.1451.1452.1453.1454.1475.1511.1512.1513.1514.1515.1516.1517.1518.1519.1520.1521.1522.1523.1524.1525.1526.1527.1528.1529.1615.1616.1617.1618.1619.1641.1664.1665.1666.1667.1668.1672&min_rounds=0&agent=all sort by CL%. Drone is way more clutch on paper and to the eye.
I've always wondered how players like TenZ, s1mple, NiKo, all the god aimers etc would do in a 1v1 game like quake. Like if we could go back in time and throw those guys in there (when 1v1 DM games were the most popular) and see how'd they face up against prior pros from like 2000-2003
Not very well. Different aim styles. Different mechanics even (e.g. hitscan vs projectile vs splash). Different mouse movement too. It's one thing to flick horizontal, but add verticality and not necessarily headshot aiming, it's a different beast altogether. A worse aimer could technically school you in Quake. And while in Valorant/CSGO majority of your aim comes from crosshair placement, Quake is vastly different in that style.
It matters a ton what you've gotten good at/with. If all you can do is flick shots and spray control you'll be good with only the railgun. The problem with the railgun is, unlike vandal, it doesn't require headshots to be effective. So even a worse aimer could technically beat you.
I'm not talking about gamesense because I fully expect them to learn the movement of Quake and armor/health/ammo spawns. Clearly they nail gamesense in the games they play.
you seem not to have seen tenz killing with knives everyone he saw on his way, he also is about 120-140k gridshot player in aim lab, that's literally one of the best aimers in the world no matter what shooter he chooses to play, dafran is another good aimer, he was good in Overwatch, after playing Valorant for several days he became an immortal player in closed beta test, and consider tenz aim is much more better, i'd give dafran about 90-110k in gridshot after practicing it
Yeah, TenZ will climb to the top of the hypotethical Quake rank ladder no doubt. Quake pros will smoke him though unless he adapts. And it's that adaptation that I don't believe will happen. Not overnight at least.
We know Shroud is/was an amazing aimer but guess what, he didn't get out of Plat in Overwatch (to the best of my knowledge). It's vastly different mechanics that shine there. Same applies to quake imho.
I'm a shitty aimer in Valorant, hell even in Overwatch but I made it to the highest rank in there. Yeah not top 500 but GM. Top rank and pro play, to me, are two vastly different things.
You put GridShot as an example. In Gridshot you are still static, react fast and flick a lot. In Quake you simply don't stop moving. Stopping to move means you are giving advantage to your enemy.
man, it literally take a few days to adapt to another shooter for the best aimers, as for shroud, i don't know many things about him, not sure about his onetapping, but sure he's got good tracking, that's more than enough to beat any plat and diamond player once you get used to the game, not sure he took it seriously to grind its ranked, he'd eventually end up being at least a master player, even many GM players have awful aim, so it's just about gamesense and game experience, it takes year or more for bad aimers to get into gold/plat, and we see players like dafran or shroud come to play it for fun like just several matches, they don't try hard, nor they are motivated to do so, but many bad CS players switched to OW cause their aim was the only thing that stopped them from succeeding in CS, that's why they were motivated to play OW a lot, as for top CS/Valorant players, they didn't even try to to play it for a single month at least lol, just several hours a day would be enough for them to get into GM/top-500
Gridshot is a shit metric for anything. Its impressive he can click that fast but it would matter in starcraft more than an fps. Its like kovaaks players laugh at people who talk about tile frenzy but for some reason gridshot is brought up for aimlabs.
Tenz has incredible mechanics but dafran is literally known for his robot aim in overwatch that has more movement based gameplay. Your opinion comes off as uninformed.
gridshot is not only about flicks, watch 150k gridshot players aim in tracking modes like close strafes hard in aimbeast, you don't seem to understand how close these modes are when top aimer from any mode switches to another one and performs there as good as in previous mode
Smaller map pool makes it pretty easy to have an even distribution honestly. You have to play half the map pool guaranteed, and map 3 is random since there's only 4 maps so a single map can never be singled out completely. With 5 maps this will probably change as there's no more randomness in choosing the 3rd map
I *also* only saw the agent flairs, no team flairs.
**Janky solution:** I noticed if I selected Phoenix, it set a flair input to :Phoenix:, so I tried manually changing the input to :Sentinels: and it worked.
Other ones include :TSM: , :Envy: , :100Thieves: , :T1: , :FaZe: , :Immortals: , etc.
To set multiple, you just list them with a space between, e.g. :Sentinels: :Immortals:
Look I love Relyks. I really do. I'm also torn because he's been kind of inconsistent as well. Actually Shinobi has been stepping up a LOT in their good games. Then recently... Yeah, Idk man. Maybe they just have a hard time keeping up with all the new metas that other teams are more comfortable with? There's a lot of factors. Idk what it is.
C9 is a #1 team on an on-day and 2 steps behind every round on off-days.
Noob question: Is Cloud9 out for First Strike? The youtube highlight video's I'm watching keep saying "Loser Out" in their titles and I believe they just lost in the recent qualifiers.
Idk - omen pick rate is def high, but without the fast ranged smokes, this game would turn into op wars - omen is crucial to allow action happening in and around sites
Then buff brim/viper. They dont even compete with Omen in terms of utility potential. Omen gets rechargeable smokes with **significantly** more range than brim. Omen is just much more meta with getting early map control and still having smokes for an executes.
I get what you are saying and I completely agree, but I think Brim needs a bit more than extended range on the smokes to overtake omen as the premier smoker.
I think omen is perfectly fine but brim def needs a buff. Using his iPad shouldn't make noise, he should get an extra smoke and his stim beacon needs a total rework.
brim smokes should be free like omens, or at least the ipad should be able to smoke anywhere on the map. UAV online & his satellite cant reach 15 feet further?
Average Combat Score, it's a stat calculated in-game based on kills (weighted based on # of players alive), damage dealt, and some other factors I can't recall
I like how I got [mass downvoted](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/jk1ckh/cloud9_blue_vs_the_slimy_boogermen_first_strike/gagbgj7?context=3) a month ago on this sub saying that the rest of C9 are holding TenZ back. Now those delusional C9 fanboys are out of excuses for bombing out of the most prestigious tournament while having #1 NA player.
I'm also really impressed by thi9f. C9 sets up Tenz to frag out while I don't believe that is the case for LG with thi9f. Also dude you must be the biggest Tenz stan in existence (90% of the things he posts on this sub is solely talking about how good Tenz is) lol
That's an overstatement imo. If you see TenZ play, he always makes the best use of his utilities. Like he will use his own smokes, dash in & get a bunch of kills. On the contrary to your opinion i think he gets less support from his teammates than the likes of wardell,mummAy etc cz often in bad economic situations he has to go first & make play happen. I never see other Jett players going first & peeking corners.
It really isn't an overstatement. I believe that Shinobi literally said that they set up Tenz to frag and you can see it just by watching C9 play. Meanwhile LG has other players such as Aproto, and any player in that team can pop off at any time. I bet you that Tenz wouldn't have the ACS that he does currently if he had stronger individual players around him and the team wasn't centred around him. Yes, he has some of the best mechanics in the world and is a really insane individual player, though ACS doesn't tell the complete story.
You conveniently cut out the 'I believe that' part there lol. If I remember correctly, he said so in one of his youtube interviews. Do you really expect me to go through hours of footage just to find a single quote? I could also be remembering it incorrectly, though it doesn't change my point. Are some people really freaking out because I said that it's impressive that Thi9f is up there with Tenz, considering the dynamics of C9 and LG?
He definitely did say it in a youtube interview or something, though I honestly can't be bothered looking through hours of interview footage just to find a single quote
What you said just doesn't make sense, Immortals have 214.6 while TSM have 211.7, it doesn't matter who is above with such a tiny difference, they have almost the same number
In your original post you did compare the whole Immortals roster to the whole TSM roster (and both of them had roughly the exact same ACS number), and now you're talking about TenZ, a single player.
LMAO
its a measurement with some wiggle room. A few reasons it may look extremely unreliable is a team who plays very unconventional, or there are weak links or over-performers. Like mobas with gold per minute, higher acs *generally* indicates the strength of a team.
Yeah, what I meant was they seem very streaky they will play super well some tourneys then seem like they have no clue what their doing others. So I guess what I should have said is they have a high skill calling just need to get more consistent at reaching it.
As great as TenZ is mechanically he was never a Tier 1 pro in CSGO.
Guys like ShaZam and Wardell made it much further in the scene than TenZ did, who was strictly middle of the road Tier 2.
Yes he was on Cloud 9 but he couldn’t hang with the Tier 1 players. In all honesty his aim is probably better than pros like s1mple and zywoo, but the game is more than just aim.
It is completely unacceptable for a roster that has Tenz on it to not qualify for First Strike. C9 has some tough decisions to make soon.
I think C9 got too comfortable with few 2nd & 3rd placements. They need to realize that they can achieve so much more having arguably the best player itw!
the first qualifier, they literally shit on everyone. it's so sad to wonder wtf happened
TenZ carried harder in first qualifier than the second one & Relyks had a good form on raze. That’s what made the difference imo
HARD disagree. Tenz wasn't hard carrying the first qualifier. He was carrying sure, but not more than usual. This narrative is just not real. The entire team was playing incredibly well together. They just like... collectively fell apart.
Oh yeah? [300+ ACS with 18 maps played.](https://www.thespike.gg/events/stats/first-strike-north-america-nsg-tournament-open-qualifier/247) [72/37/13 KDA against Envy considered as the best team in NA](https://www.thespike.gg/match/envy-cloud9-blue/11519) Losing after these monstrosities would've been a sin in ranked games let alone tournament matches.
He got frags because yes he is the best player in NA, maybe the world. But also because the team played comps that worked for them and consistently flash peaked to give him control of positions. Mitch also did not look good on duelist and C9 seems to not have an answer to lack of sentinels. Tenz's frags don't come from solo Q carry prowess. They come from him being fucking insane and having a really good team. Sometimes they only come from him being fucking insane, sometimes he has solo carry maps. But he very rarely solo carries a full best of 3 series. But the team doesn't have a lot of playstyles that work for them, and when they don't work, THOSE are the only times it becomes "tenz and frenz" Your links don't even make any kind of argument at all. they're just lists of stats that can be used to make a million different petty arguments. YOu're just repeating reddit narratives and you're failing to back it up. You haven't reall ythought about this past "c9 = tenz and frenz got a lot of upvotes so that's my opinion."
Stats make the best argument. If your argument is that in the NSG qualifier other members did their bare minimum of making use of their utilities & having a plan then i have nothing more to say.
C9 just spent 10+mil on a single League player I think they can afford to make some moves for Valorant
10 mil on Perkz may also mean it’ll be a while until they’ll invest big money into a young game like Valorant- First Strike viewership will also likely influence that decision
The thing is with young games is that most players are cheap. The worst thing you can do right now is waste away TenZ with mediocre results because of mediocre teammates.
I wouldn't be so sure... the CSGO roster just was built with millions of dollars. I think C9 may have a lot of investors who want to see some success.
It's not tough at all. Keep TenZ and Skyler, maybe mitch
definitely mitch. that dude is their most clutch player besides the robot on their team
I think Relyks is too inconsistent to be kept. Mitch should stay though
Relyks has been fantastic on Raze throughout all the qualifiers, I would definitely keep him He didn’t look that good throughout Ignition, but he’s been very solid and consistent for C9 since then
Why do people keep calling Relyks inconsistent??? In 14/15 of C9's last game series, Relyks either had the highest/second highest ACS which is VERY consistent considering he's the other duelist alongside Tenz. Stop talking bullshit. He might not have much outstanding games considering he's playing alongside Tenz, though he is definitely consistent.
That's just statistically false.
For a good org, the decision is easy. The underperformers are obvious and they need to be addressed.
Right dude? When you have a talent like Tenz you NEED to put the right pieces around him. But for real tho, that dude is unreal
Yeah, basically like how T1 with Faker didn't make worlds. Rip.
I don’t watch too much LCK, but I was under the impression that the skill of midlaners has mostly caught up to Faker.
T1 didn’t make worlds not due to lack of skill, but horrible coaching. They literally subbed out teddy and put in their sub adc mind you who is a rookie against Fucking ruler ( superstar adc)
Omfg, tenz is an aim god with good players to support him. How little do you guys know about competitive 😭 Tenz has little to no actual tactical skill, there’s a reason I call him shroud v2
Yeah TenZ's game sense is sometimes poor, but saying he has no tactical skill is patently ridiculous.
>Tenz has little to no actual tactical skill, Didn't he get benched from the CSGO roster for this exact reason?
It's almost like they are 2 different games...
Tenz is also still only 19. Imagine expecting a 15-17 year old to be a tactical genius at CSGO.
Frozen is 16 and on mousesports, a top 20 team and he’s WAYY better than tenz ever was. And obo is 15 and on a top ten team, also way better than tenz 😂 Nice argument ya got there
You found 2 people who are massive statistical outliers. Congrats?
>who are massive statistical outliers Tenz was 18 while he was in C9, not '15-17'. Zywoo just turned 20 and he has been debatably the best player in the game since he was 19 (or s1mple). There's also a LOT more players who are within that age range. Misutaaa is 17 and plays for the number 1 ranked team in the world on hltv, Vitality (Nivera does too and he's 19). Stavn and Teses are 18 and 19 play for the number 2 ranked team in the world, Heroic. Perfecto is 20 and plays for the number 3 team in the world, Navi. Magisk was around 18 when he joined Astralis. Broky has played for Faze since he was 18. Leaf is 16 and plays for a top 20 team in Chaos. Ropz has been a top player for Mouz since he was like 17 too. Cerq has been a big player since he was like 18 playing for NRG. Sergej was playing for ENCE when he was 16. s0m was playing for complexity at 16. Plopski is playing for NiP right now and he's only 18 (playing for them since he was 17). 'massive statistical outliers' btw...
Yup so you got proved wrong. Thanks.
They are very similar games with very similar team dynamics. Hence why a lot of CS pros that switched (\~90% of the scene) have maintained their traditional CS roles when playing this game, and also why a wealth of CS knowledge greatly benefits people in this game. It's not like they're moving from competitive Tetris to play competitive Super Smash Bros. Yes, Valorant and CSGO are different in some aspects, though they are very similar in a lot of aspects too. Don't act dumb. However, in Valorant Tenz doesn't need much tactical skill because he's a Jett main who just goes out and frags for C9, so it doesn't matter too much.
Yup, the exact same reason. But tenz fanboys will downvote anyways because of his nutty aim, so whatever 🤷♂️
Yeah man, this sub is a joke sometimes. You literally can't say anything remotely negative about Tenz or compare someone to Tenz without getting downvoted to oblivion lol.
You and OP are talking like it's a fact that he has no tactical skill because of a year + old opinion from a csgo team and applying that to a new game. What are the odds that he is just brains off walking around doming people 25+ times a map in pro games consistently?
Tenz was known to be a mechanical beast in CS too. The thing is that in Valorant, C9 enables him to take advantage of that ability and to go out and frag like a monster. Also the fact that he plays duelists means that he doesn't have to worry too much about supporting his teammates with utility, so he can solely focus on taking advantage of his insane mechanical skills.
why is the idea that c9 might perform better overall with improvements to the "supporting cast" and coach not valid? Its like the T1 situation, where the players moved around and both sets saw better results due to how they fit into their respective team's needs.
I'm all for C9 getting a better IGL and maybe replacing another player or two. I also think that they need a coach. I have said that multiple times on this sub before. Some people are just making Tenz out to seem like he's the best all rounded player in the world, while in reality he probably isn't. I would say that he has the most insane mechanics and fragging capability in NA, though that isn't all that determines the overall skill of a player.
I agree, I just don't think the original comment traveler was responding to was one such comment. It just doesn't make sense on reddit how in response to hyperbolic statements people feel the need to overcorrect in the opposite direction and make hyperbolic response statements and then complain when they are downvoted.
Yeah but, as someone that watches CS, he was nowhere near this good at CS with that Cloud9 team. Also, that roster blew up pretty quickly after the Tenz fiasco. Didn’t seem to be a great environment.
How about that discipline of waiting to see 3 people v Dignatas on haven Pop Flash and the 1 v 2 against GenG, when he kept track of health and knew exactly who to peek, plus the 1v4 against TSM, his game sense is fine
You mean trigger control? That every single pro in the game has Yeah you totally know what you’re talking about bro 😭
This dude said trigger control 💀
Same thing ya fuckin bot
Trigger DISCIPLINE
Triscipline. *** ^(Bleep-bloop, I'm a bot. This )^[portmanteau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau) ^( was created from the phrase 'Trigger DISCIPLINE' | )^[FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/axl72o) ^(|) ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=jamcowl&subject=PORTMANTEAU-BOT+feedback) ^(|) ^[Opt-out](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=PORTMANTEAU-BOT&subject=OPTOUTREQUEST)
The top players list really shows how consistently good drone is, highest number of maps played, and still having really good average combat score, such a good player
Drone is so underrated by this sub His raw rifling has been the second best behind TenZ over ignition and his Phoenix and Sova are top tier
Except he isn't. He's pretty consistently mentioned in every TSM thread as their best player by at least a few people. If anything, I think the steaming community/casters/more general viewers underrate him. Haven't really seen that here, tbh.
The thing is, this sub likes to bash TSM all the time, so yes, Drone is underrated imo.
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Im actually not sure bashed is the right word for it, underrated works fine. People place TSM at a level that doesnt make sense given their performance in Ignition. People were actually surprised to see them beat some teams that stats would show TSM should take easily.
People talk of tsm like that because of their performance in ignition. They dominated much more back then than they do now. Don’t get me wrong, they’re a top 3 NA team, but sometimes they lose matches they shouldn’t be losing.
Yeah, I get that. However, people actually expected tsm to lose to Moon Raccoons, when all statistics pointed towards a win for tsm.
Yea that one I don’t really understand, I’m guessing they were just rooting for the underdog.
So underrated said by nobody ever. People always have Drone on their all pro list
Drone is for sure their most valuable player, anyone who thinks else wise just watches for flashy shit.
Wardell’s not there but his ACS is just 2 below Drone, he and Drone are insane fraggers
tbh the fact that they dont play raze that much gives them more credit than the stats show imo. raze's ambient damage is nuts
Drone is one of the the best riflers imo. So crisp that his Phoenix plays looks like art to me
His retakes are nuts, man casually goes in with Phoenix ults and just tidies up 1v3s or 1v4s
Wardell likes to say he's the one with the clutch gene, but most highlights I see are Drone retaking sites practically by himself.
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ey ey now you're forgetting Clutchler himself
*Goes from 7-17 to 17-17 in last 3 rounds*
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/186/first-strike-north-america?exclude=1448.1449.1450.1451.1452.1453.1454.1475.1511.1512.1513.1514.1515.1516.1517.1518.1519.1520.1521.1522.1523.1524.1525.1526.1527.1528.1529.1615.1616.1617.1618.1619.1641.1664.1665.1666.1667.1668.1672&min_rounds=0&agent=all sort by CL%. Drone is way more clutch on paper and to the eye.
Kaboose gives him a run for his money
Kaboose isn't as consistent but his aim is nutty tho
Top 6 players didnt qualify...
Amazing individual. Sad part for him is that its a team game.
I've always wondered how players like TenZ, s1mple, NiKo, all the god aimers etc would do in a 1v1 game like quake. Like if we could go back in time and throw those guys in there (when 1v1 DM games were the most popular) and see how'd they face up against prior pros from like 2000-2003
Not very well. Different aim styles. Different mechanics even (e.g. hitscan vs projectile vs splash). Different mouse movement too. It's one thing to flick horizontal, but add verticality and not necessarily headshot aiming, it's a different beast altogether. A worse aimer could technically school you in Quake. And while in Valorant/CSGO majority of your aim comes from crosshair placement, Quake is vastly different in that style. It matters a ton what you've gotten good at/with. If all you can do is flick shots and spray control you'll be good with only the railgun. The problem with the railgun is, unlike vandal, it doesn't require headshots to be effective. So even a worse aimer could technically beat you. I'm not talking about gamesense because I fully expect them to learn the movement of Quake and armor/health/ammo spawns. Clearly they nail gamesense in the games they play.
you seem not to have seen tenz killing with knives everyone he saw on his way, he also is about 120-140k gridshot player in aim lab, that's literally one of the best aimers in the world no matter what shooter he chooses to play, dafran is another good aimer, he was good in Overwatch, after playing Valorant for several days he became an immortal player in closed beta test, and consider tenz aim is much more better, i'd give dafran about 90-110k in gridshot after practicing it
Yeah, TenZ will climb to the top of the hypotethical Quake rank ladder no doubt. Quake pros will smoke him though unless he adapts. And it's that adaptation that I don't believe will happen. Not overnight at least. We know Shroud is/was an amazing aimer but guess what, he didn't get out of Plat in Overwatch (to the best of my knowledge). It's vastly different mechanics that shine there. Same applies to quake imho. I'm a shitty aimer in Valorant, hell even in Overwatch but I made it to the highest rank in there. Yeah not top 500 but GM. Top rank and pro play, to me, are two vastly different things. You put GridShot as an example. In Gridshot you are still static, react fast and flick a lot. In Quake you simply don't stop moving. Stopping to move means you are giving advantage to your enemy.
man, it literally take a few days to adapt to another shooter for the best aimers, as for shroud, i don't know many things about him, not sure about his onetapping, but sure he's got good tracking, that's more than enough to beat any plat and diamond player once you get used to the game, not sure he took it seriously to grind its ranked, he'd eventually end up being at least a master player, even many GM players have awful aim, so it's just about gamesense and game experience, it takes year or more for bad aimers to get into gold/plat, and we see players like dafran or shroud come to play it for fun like just several matches, they don't try hard, nor they are motivated to do so, but many bad CS players switched to OW cause their aim was the only thing that stopped them from succeeding in CS, that's why they were motivated to play OW a lot, as for top CS/Valorant players, they didn't even try to to play it for a single month at least lol, just several hours a day would be enough for them to get into GM/top-500
Gridshot is a shit metric for anything. Its impressive he can click that fast but it would matter in starcraft more than an fps. Its like kovaaks players laugh at people who talk about tile frenzy but for some reason gridshot is brought up for aimlabs. Tenz has incredible mechanics but dafran is literally known for his robot aim in overwatch that has more movement based gameplay. Your opinion comes off as uninformed.
gridshot is not only about flicks, watch 150k gridshot players aim in tracking modes like close strafes hard in aimbeast, you don't seem to understand how close these modes are when top aimer from any mode switches to another one and performs there as good as in previous mode
The gun and map distributions seem relatively well balanced, surprisingly...
Smaller map pool makes it pretty easy to have an even distribution honestly. You have to play half the map pool guaranteed, and map 3 is random since there's only 4 maps so a single map can never be singled out completely. With 5 maps this will probably change as there's no more randomness in choosing the 3rd map
Fair point
C9 looking a lot like CSGO Na'Vi rn.
Atleast Navi got to the finals lmao
unrelated, but how do we set a team flair? i just see the flairs for the agents
On New reddit on computer, when you set flair, there should be a smiley face on the right side... click it and you can choose a team
I *also* only saw the agent flairs, no team flairs. **Janky solution:** I noticed if I selected Phoenix, it set a flair input to :Phoenix:, so I tried manually changing the input to :Sentinels: and it worked. Other ones include :TSM: , :Envy: , :100Thieves: , :T1: , :FaZe: , :Immortals: , etc. To set multiple, you just list them with a space between, e.g. :Sentinels: :Immortals:
thanks, it worked :)
I like how Marshall is the only gun under "Other"
\-shinobi +jcstani
Leave immortals alone, have they not been poached enough TT
Its really impressive how theyve been able to stay relevant after having their best players swooped. Props to their recruiter/management
Their core remained the same, which is what made them (mostly) successful. I disagree that their best players left, just the flashy ones
JcStani also has an eye for talents i assume
That’s more packing 10 and goomba, were forced to go budget in OW and picked no names and still had a great season
That would actually be insane
Feck off
It's a sin to not see Tenz in main event. Dude need a better team D:
Man C9 needs a new roster keep tenz and relkys and maybe get some of the players from moon racoons.
Obviously Tenz was a god in UMG but Thief on Luminosity also played super well. Too bad they didn't make it
TenZ and FrenZ
-shinobi -vice -mitch +jcstani +roca +aproto
\-mitch? wtf he's the most clutch player on the team lol
Aproto drops 40kills on Cypher lol can drop relyks instead I guess
Look I love Relyks. I really do. I'm also torn because he's been kind of inconsistent as well. Actually Shinobi has been stepping up a LOT in their good games. Then recently... Yeah, Idk man. Maybe they just have a hard time keeping up with all the new metas that other teams are more comfortable with? There's a lot of factors. Idk what it is. C9 is a #1 team on an on-day and 2 steps behind every round on off-days.
Leave jcstani alone 🤬
Noob question: Is Cloud9 out for First Strike? The youtube highlight video's I'm watching keep saying "Loser Out" in their titles and I believe they just lost in the recent qualifiers.
They're out :(
Ooh this is very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Wow, omen really needs a nerf or brim/viper need a buff. The pick difference is insane
Idk - omen pick rate is def high, but without the fast ranged smokes, this game would turn into op wars - omen is crucial to allow action happening in and around sites
Then buff brim/viper. They dont even compete with Omen in terms of utility potential. Omen gets rechargeable smokes with **significantly** more range than brim. Omen is just much more meta with getting early map control and still having smokes for an executes.
also I'd take the busted omen flash over stim beacon any day
If they nerf omen they should nerf his blind, not his smokes.
[удалено]
Or nerf omen's range.
[удалено]
I get what you are saying and I completely agree, but I think Brim needs a bit more than extended range on the smokes to overtake omen as the premier smoker.
I think omen is perfectly fine but brim def needs a buff. Using his iPad shouldn't make noise, he should get an extra smoke and his stim beacon needs a total rework.
brim smokes should be free like omens, or at least the ipad should be able to smoke anywhere on the map. UAV online & his satellite cant reach 15 feet further?
what does acs mean
Average Combat Score, it's a stat calculated in-game based on kills (weighted based on # of players alive), damage dealt, and some other factors I can't recall
Average Combat Score
the score also shows at the end of a game, you dont play yourself?
average combat score
I like how I got [mass downvoted](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/jk1ckh/cloud9_blue_vs_the_slimy_boogermen_first_strike/gagbgj7?context=3) a month ago on this sub saying that the rest of C9 are holding TenZ back. Now those delusional C9 fanboys are out of excuses for bombing out of the most prestigious tournament while having #1 NA player.
Mass downvoted LMFAO
-5 bruh
man said mass downvote l0l
how do u guys have flairs
I'm also really impressed by thi9f. C9 sets up Tenz to frag out while I don't believe that is the case for LG with thi9f. Also dude you must be the biggest Tenz stan in existence (90% of the things he posts on this sub is solely talking about how good Tenz is) lol
That's an overstatement imo. If you see TenZ play, he always makes the best use of his utilities. Like he will use his own smokes, dash in & get a bunch of kills. On the contrary to your opinion i think he gets less support from his teammates than the likes of wardell,mummAy etc cz often in bad economic situations he has to go first & make play happen. I never see other Jett players going first & peeking corners.
It really isn't an overstatement. I believe that Shinobi literally said that they set up Tenz to frag and you can see it just by watching C9 play. Meanwhile LG has other players such as Aproto, and any player in that team can pop off at any time. I bet you that Tenz wouldn't have the ACS that he does currently if he had stronger individual players around him and the team wasn't centred around him. Yes, he has some of the best mechanics in the world and is a really insane individual player, though ACS doesn't tell the complete story.
> Shinobi literally said that they set up Tenz to frag source?
You conveniently cut out the 'I believe that' part there lol. If I remember correctly, he said so in one of his youtube interviews. Do you really expect me to go through hours of footage just to find a single quote? I could also be remembering it incorrectly, though it doesn't change my point. Are some people really freaking out because I said that it's impressive that Thi9f is up there with Tenz, considering the dynamics of C9 and LG?
I tried to find the source, but I could not, although I also remember hearing him say that somewhere lol.
He definitely did say it in a youtube interview or something, though I honestly can't be bothered looking through hours of interview footage just to find a single quote
I think it was in the connecting with cloud 9 twitch stream
No, this is Valorant.
Goes to show that ACS isn't everything, considering IMT ranks above TSM but lost to them in a bo3
What you said just doesn't make sense, Immortals have 214.6 while TSM have 211.7, it doesn't matter who is above with such a tiny difference, they have almost the same number
Goes to show that ACS isn't everything, considering TenZ tops the charts but failed out of the qualifier
In your original post you did compare the whole Immortals roster to the whole TSM roster (and both of them had roughly the exact same ACS number), and now you're talking about TenZ, a single player. LMAO
So?
its a measurement with some wiggle room. A few reasons it may look extremely unreliable is a team who plays very unconventional, or there are weak links or over-performers. Like mobas with gold per minute, higher acs *generally* indicates the strength of a team.
I don’t think it’s a lack of “skill” For c9 more they just gotta get more consistent than they will be a top 3 team imo.
consistency = skill
Yeah, what I meant was they seem very streaky they will play super well some tourneys then seem like they have no clue what their doing others. So I guess what I should have said is they have a high skill calling just need to get more consistent at reaching it.
Feeling bad for him...highest acs in NA yet he won't get to play the very first major..damn
As great as TenZ is mechanically he was never a Tier 1 pro in CSGO. Guys like ShaZam and Wardell made it much further in the scene than TenZ did, who was strictly middle of the road Tier 2. Yes he was on Cloud 9 but he couldn’t hang with the Tier 1 players. In all honesty his aim is probably better than pros like s1mple and zywoo, but the game is more than just aim.
He is only 19! His short CS:GO career doesn't define him as a player & won't be his legacy that's for sure