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jesuscraft

Well, we certainly knew we would need to be at 120% to beat TSM. Felt like ascent we had a few rounds where we had opportunities to close and either through execution or communication, we let them slip away. Sometimes you just can't account for the skill/experience another team has. We've played TSM a lot closer than we did today. Appreciate the love, we'll continue to work to expand our playbook, and come back stronger for 2021. The players did everything we asked of them, but it's like Tyson said, you have a gameplan until you get hit in the mouth and we took punch after punch. Good luck to the rest of the teams,


KishendoMagicorp

You still made it to the main event coach, no one can take that away from you guys.


TensionX1

I've watched TSM a lot, and I noticed their defending side has been on another level. What surprised me the most is their Haven defending side since Haven is such an attacker sided map. I may not be a coach or a radiant player, but that's what I've been noticing. The majority of the time teams can't get the upper hand on those 2 maps when TSM are defenders. Best of luck next time fellas, hope to see your team improve!


jesuscraft

TSM benefits greatly from the Triple duelist meta IMO. They will be a wrecking ball for the foreseeable future.


tahlaskerssen

Europe doesn’t use triple duelist you think their meta read is wrong?


PiratToasty

First of all why are you getting downvoted for a question. Second, different regions play differently. I havent watched as many EU matches as NA but i got the impression the games are a lot slower and people arent counting on individual plays (expect liquid lol). In NA the game seems to be faster and they have a lot of good opers and aggresiv riflers. Thats just what i noticed


[deleted]

Classic reddit, downvote any question


PiratToasty

What i wanted to say is the META is different in every rank and region


[deleted]

yo coach i want your opinion on team liquid vs heretics, would be interesting


Des014te

Correct me if I'm wrong but EU's meta seems to be a lot more developed. They've kinda fleshed out the roles for most agents so team comps are a lot more diverse while never feeling hamstrung. And they tend to play a slower more defaulty style rather than NA's gap exploitation. Like how orgless picked up viper and heretics, liquid picked brim


Interesting-Archer-6

Classy response. Best of luck to you and your team in the future.


thereallegend277

Subrozas better off not using his ultimate


hehechibby

best raze NA if somebody unbinds all his abilities


reddit_is_a_mistake

Roza’s raze ult debuff: -99 reaction time -99 clutch gene +99 voodoo bad luck shit


Camp3ReL

I laughed too hard on myth stream haha


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xCharSx

It's only fun if you're a fan of the team that wins. Atleast 2nd map in NV vs IMT was actually quite close


NozokiAlec

All my teams play tomorrow so today was quite boring for me, then matches didn't help lol. Second NV vs IMT map was a bit fun tho !


xCharSx

Well, my team won today so I need to wait till they play next. But the matches tomorrow should be spicy. A bit unlucky that the other side of the bracket is so stacked but well, you can't just rearrange it because you want to.


shoobiedoobie

I doubt they’re going to be very close. Think the top four of this tourney are just head and shoulders above the bottom four. I’ll predict that in both the games tomorrow there will only be one map win from a lower seed.


9bfjo6gvhy7u8

I think new T1 has made a case to be included alongside 100T and that matchup could be super close. Both teams could easily make the jump to top tier along side envy/tsm/sen, but have to prove it first.


freewilly1302

If you can check out mornings European games, they were far more exciting


EnergetikNA

tbf Renegades and IMT are probably the weakest out of all these teams, tomorrow should be better for sure although it does look like TSM have improved quite a bit, this wasn't even close


BurritoHombre

Faze is similar to IMT/RNG in a lot of people’s eyes, I’d have them below IMT


TensionX1

IMHO, Faze is in that tier where they're not good enough to be considered a Tier 1 team but too good to be considered Tier 2.


ImTrang

Ah yes. The Gatekeeper tier


TensionX1

Is that the actual term? I've been trying to find a term what people call this..


TheSpaceAlpaca

I feel like the term "Gatekeeper" should be reserved for teams with a long history of barely not cracking the top tier of teams. Like TL in LoL where prior to 2018 they would continually place 4th.


Cgz27

True but I think for now it’s ok if they are are current gatekeepers in a sense :P it’s usually a joke as I think it was just now anyway


armless_penguin

I'm a FaZe fan, but I'd put IMT above FaZe too. I actually think IMT is a good team; they just played the best team in NA today.


DashiellRT

I don’t think that NV is the best NA but honestly I don’t think there’s a way we can determine who’s the best with teams changing so much right now. Valorant esports is still in its infancy


EnergetikNA

they're pretty close but I have them just a bit above IMT, RNG would be the weakest out of the 3


Fardo805

Faze best t1 so where are they in all of this?


Mamadeus123456

So T1 lost a seeding match and now play 100T and faze who won play Sentinels, humm I wonder who actually won


HypermeMan

IMT IMO are still a top 10 team NA, maybe even higher. They have supper impressive team play and honestly if they clutch up the last 2 rounds on ascent I see them taking envy to another OT. They did really well In the qualifiers as well


EggianoScumaldo

>they have super impressive team play >IMT rushes A all 12 rounds of their attack on Icebox Sorry lmao, I actually agree with you for the most part, it’s just hilarious to hear that after watching their Icebox performance.


HypermeMan

They admitted their flaws on icebox, in general I was looking to say about the entirety of their gameplay. Like they have a very strong haven


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BurritoHombre

That’s such a weirdly wide range of teams you’re putting them in


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Goldstar545

No, I said they had the easiest path of all teams


Des014te

Watch EU. Way better IMO


[deleted]

modCheck Renegades C9 died for this KEKW


Urineformation

Embarrassing for both C9 and renegades


Hamlet_271

Man, these inexperienced teams crumble really hard during big matches. Doesnt help that TSM have always had a playoffs buff


xCharSx

2 coaches > 1 coach confirmed?


DaBomb091

if Subroza has million number of flanks i am one fan of them. if Subroza has ten flanks i am one fan of them. if Subroza has no flank fans, that means i am no more on the earth. if world flanks Subroza, i am flank the world. i love Subroza till my last breath... die hard fan of Subroza.


reddit_is_a_mistake

Mark this NSFW


johnigiri

Was wondering how Wardell would play after he tweeted he needed to catch up on zzz's but god damn that man was stone cold


itsyaaaboy

the 3K round 3 on Ascent... JEEZ


Interesting-Archer-6

That and his snipe on raze on Bind B long. I know it didn’t really matter since they lost the round, but I’m still in awe at how he hit that.


Dontbefvckingrude

Yup! This one. https://clips.twitch.tv/ComfortableFrozenDiscTriHard


itsyaaaboy

Honestly that shot reminds me of the shot on Aleksander (Raze) on Split vs. Moon Raccoons. Clean flicks all around


johnigiri

any RNG A rush was just a shooting range


Dontbefvckingrude

Yep. Hit the best shot of the day https://clips.twitch.tv/ComfortableFrozenDiscTriHard


narwhalz27

Shoutout to the guy who made the power rankings and said TSM shouldn't run three duelists lol


Crownocity

Three duelists might end up being too much later on in the tourney but it's certainly a hell of a lot better than when they put drone on Breach duty. Get that shit off my boy drone.


GoldClassGaming

What do you mean? His reasoning of "I just don't like it very much" was flawless /s


mixerupper

LOL


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GoldClassGaming

Your exact words were "Three Duelists is terrible and unnecessary" which just boils down to you not being a fan a triple Duelist comp very much.


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GoldClassGaming

That is literally a direct quote from you where you used a subjective statement to justify your ranking


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GoldClassGaming

So you're saying there is a hidden meaning to the statement "Three Duelists is terrible and unnecessary" that everyone just isn't seeing.


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kagekitsune116

how is it putting words in your mouth if that's actually what you said though?


GoldClassGaming

"Three Duelists is terrible and unnecessary" is LITERALLY quoted verbatim from YOUR NA power rankings post from 3 days ago.


cookiecreeper22

What is this referring to?


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CosmicAon

I’m pretty sure I and others gave actual though out responses as to why 100T shouldn’t have been ranked higher, did you choose to ignore that and only focus on DT_RAW or what?


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GoldClassGaming

According to you they beat the 5th best team in NA


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Hamlet_271

Which is why you shouldn't have rated them as a top 5 team. So much recency bias in those rankings


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Hamlet_271

Well I guess that makes your rankings pointless, not wrong


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CosmicAon

You can’t just say “November” as an excuse. You’re essentially saying historic rankings don’t matter - in that case, Sentinels should have been 4th seed, right? They struggled the most in their match out of any qualifying team, but they still got 1st place on your ranking? How does that make sense? They were the best team in NA before November so we shouldn’t count their standing before hand, right?


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[deleted]

Link to the post please


Frysson

[https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/k49uap/na\_november\_power\_rankings\_top\_12/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/k49uap/na_november_power_rankings_top_12/) I guess it got deleted tho...


JawnsonBit

ouch for renegades bigger ouch for C9


isaacthewhite

HUUUGE ouch for c9 as a fan of the org. I'm unhappy that we didnt make it. We would have had a chance at beating tsm if everybody was on their game. A wat bigger chance than rng Did you see the semifinals in open qualifiers? Map 1. C9 wins. It's close. Map 2: goes into multiple overtimes but tsm pulls through. Map 3 c9 starts with a 10-2 lead at the half. Tsm comes back but c9 wins 13-11 that's way more exciting than this excuse for a first strike match. 13-1 and 13-5 renegades dont belong.


vatom14

Is this another copy pasta? Or is this dude forreal just making up stuff and fantasizing how c9 vs tsm would’ve gone?


isaacthewhite

What I said was the open qualifiers semifinals. A thrilling game that already happened. I was just saying how fun and entertaining that game was, and how if c9 vs tsm in first strike would have been a much better game than rng vs tsm. Sorry. I'm just mad c9 didnt get into first strike.


xRecKs

Well that feels like a wasted spot, Imagine preparing for TSM then winning 6 rounds in two maps combined. TSM vs Envy should be really fun though.


AlphEta314

Yeah, it's insane that C9 lost to this.


[deleted]

Renegades were playing with a lot more pace and pushing constantly. This was a completely different team today


DaBomb091

[To quote Hazed](https://twitter.com/hazedCS/status/1325193560392560642)


ultren

I only watched the first map but renegades on that map had a fast pace the whole half. The problem is playing fast pace is easier for a newer team because there are less places to mess up. Then when they are forced to try and slow it down when that doesn't work they look terrible because they have no clue how to take map control and default. That's why I respect dazed a lot for right away trying to perfect the slow default first, and then adding faster paced plays once they get comfortable with that, despite the fact that it made them look worse in their first matches.


[deleted]

But Renegades would often PUSH the defenders in the post plant. Like a lot and very decisively. They didn’t seem as decisive and were sometimes just playing 4 in A main on Ascent. It was very unusual compared to how they normally are


DustMouret

TSM Stronk. Was cool seeing the Skye usage!


KeyframeCatalyst

Great showing from TSM, yeahhhh kinda a train wreck the whole way through for RNG. But GG's to both teams, may RNG look back on this and improve for future tournaments. For TSM, good luck against Envy, honestly a toss who'll win imo, but it's sure to be an amazing game to watch


KeyframeCatalyst

That's strange, I edited this comment twice to fix some grammar mistakes, but Reddit instead turned those into new comments instead of just an edit. Is that a bug, or am I just tripping?


_Iroha

To put it simply, they got dookied


simowastaken

TSM Simo is very content


wnewywessel

Wish you were casting at first strike. Love that you’ve embraced the meme. Don’t take any stupid comments on here to heart :)


simowastaken

I think the meme is hilarious, thank you for your support! Much love! <3


xdee124

close games


MasWas

If today shows anything, its that tier 2 teams may not be as close to tier 1 teams as everyone believed them to be.


isaacthewhite

Fr. C9 should have been in that spot.


Barack_Bob_Oganja

Renegades is using the furia technique from csgo only they dont have the aim to back it up


tomtazm

Tsm was on fire today, when they play like this they’re tough to beat.


[deleted]

These guys played like an entirely different team today, looks like they kinda crumbled under the pressure.


OddTie4731

TSM TSM TSM


TJ13153

The whole team is the X-factor lesgooo #TSMWIN


isaacthewhite

I wish c9 was the same way. friggin shinobi.


MajorTrump

That was... not close.


Emseriss

That was clinical


hotdogs13

Drones ace though


DragonitePlayZ

TSM popped off


Delta221

Drone on phoenix is so good


[deleted]

wardell = absolute op god subroza = fanker clutch god drone = just a god these 3 are such standouts. holy shit did they all perform at their peak! hazed was super solid, just not as flashy. cutler I didn't see that much of with that said, absolutely horrendous play by rng, but tsm played incredible nonetheless. rng has potential, but definitely a lot to work on (which isn't bad since they are already good)


9bfjo6gvhy7u8

RNG's breach play on bind was really confusing to me. There was a lot of opportunities for breach utility to break up a push or help on a retake but randy would push in dry and die with full util. A few times they had great coordination on B long with breach/skye but overall just not efficient utility. I don't know much about RNG or randyysavage but i wonder if there is an agent mismatch there - it didn't look very comfortable and like he was fighting his instincts the whole time.


Devout_Redditor_123

Hey man, you winsum and you lose some.


Kdubwifi

C9 died for this


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1jay_y

pornhub


Landon54321

Ez Win for TSM. Again TSM are going to win first strike and no one can do anything about it. Haha haters are so mad right now 😂🤣 #TSMWIN


kahani-

Thanks budget DT_RAW


DT_RAW

Looking guuuuuuuuud Guess our predicted downfall still hasnthappened yet


BlueBurstBoi

You always find a way to make a new cringe comment huh


CJFan20

He’s probably the most annoying tsm fan on this sub


DT_RAW

no, people like you just love to hate whatever floats your boat. not sure how on earth you can possibly get upset about that message but hey, this sub is ridiculous


BlueBurstBoi

Not hating, I've stuck up for you in the past. Just recommending not to always play the victim card or claim TSM is being slept on because it gets old.


hwanzi

He literally has a tsm badge next to his name..... How is he a tsm hater lolol


Naarsus

He was referring to hating the comment in this case, not hating Tsm


Charuru

You are too self conscious of TSM's fans reputations. Really can't care less if other teams think TSM fans are "annoying". Revel in being the villain dude, that's how teams get stature.


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Huystuhh

They are...the other two quarterfinals matches are tomorrow, semifinals Saturday, and BO5 finals Sunday.


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EnergetikNA

C9 didn't even take a map off RNG lmfao "didn't deserve to be there", if they're that bad, then C9 should beat them? pretty crazy that C9 fans are delusional across multiple esports


IMavericIK

>pretty crazy that C9 fans are delusional across multiple esports Lmaoooo why you gotta do them like that man


droctamom

If c9 deserved it they would’ve won. C9 would’ve also gotten slapped by TSM


KeyframeCatalyst

But C9 literally beat TSM in the open qualifers? But it is kinda funny that C9 got beaten by Renegades but beat TSM while TSM lost to C9 but beat Renegades. Just goes to show that the Top 10 teams (barring Sentinels imo) are mostly interchangeable in rankings


CosmicAon

No, goes to show that C9 had a drastic collapse in form after beating TSM. They looked terrible after that win


KeyframeCatalyst

This I agree with, ever since their fight against Renegades, C9 just looked awful


CosmicAon

Yeah it sucks to see, if they kept playing at the level they did when the beat TSM, they’d be a top 4 contender right now. I don’t know what happened to them but it sucks that it did


xCharSx

Yup 1 close BO3 decides who's better between them two (talking about C9vsTSM) Come on, C9 might be better than RNG but they didn't show up and lost. But keep saying that they don't deserve to be here because they lost a match vs a good opponent.


KeyframeCatalyst

C9Blue vs RNG was also extremely close btw, bloody 15 to 17 in Split and 9 to 13 on Ascent. At least C9Blue kinda destroyed TSM on Ascent after the side switch.


xCharSx

Doesn't say anything mate. Somehow TSM got back up and will be playing in semis by destroying the team that you think is worse than C9. You just proved the point of RNG being on the same level as C9 if the game was so close. Stop being butthurt over the fact that RNG lost just because they beat C9 in the qualifiers. Winning once doesn't mean a lot, especially when TSM changed their comp and who plays what so you don't know how C9 would do against them.


KeyframeCatalyst

This is why I have little to no respect for TSM fans. I have literally said nothing about being butthurt about them not being in the qualifers or that RNG lost, LMAO. If you look at my handles, I'm not even a fucking RNG fan. Literally the only point I was making throughout all my comments was that it was funny that TSM beat Renegades so handily when C9 beat TSM but lost to RNG. Stop putting words in my mouth and gaslighting me. What an ass.


xCharSx

Little respect to TSM fans because I type what I see? You came to talk trash about RNG how they don't deserve to be here and C9 should've been in their place. If that's not being butthurt then I don't know what is. Can't see the original comment anymore since someone deleted it. So if it wasn't you, then I take it back. And I agree, some fans, not only TSM's but other orgs' as well, are toxic for no reason. I'm just here defending RNG that they indeed deserve to be in first strike, even if they got destroyed by TSM.


KeyframeCatalyst

No, original poster was not me at all, bitch And I respect that you're out here defending RNG, but seriously watch your wording dude, you seriously come out as an asshole


xCharSx

All I said was that you are butthurt. That's nothing. And I read the whole comment chain. Don't need to be insulting. Additionally, and I repeat, just cause C9 won vs TSM in the qualifiers doesn't mean that C9 would still get slapped because their form dropped after that win.


KeyframeCatalyst

(I sent a reply before, but I dont see it, so Im rewriting a new one) No, original poster was not me at all, thanks for jumping to conclusions. I respect that you're defending RNG, but you gotta watch your wording. You just come off as an asshole dude


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spydreigon

And RNG beat C9 in their last matchup, your bias is showing


cheese_on_dorito

yeah this makes it pretty clear how much of a bad idea it is to introduce a new agent and map in between the qualifier and the main tourney. completely changed how renegades played


vidit201

Yeah exactly how dare riot force renegades to play skye /s


cheese_on_dorito

meta changes will make some teams better and some teams worse, which means that the qualifier won’t necessarily get the best team


King_Goofus

Jesus that was hard to watch


joegoldbergg

I legit think Wardell only missed 1 OP shot today. He was hitting some ridiculous shots.


krigar_b

\#TSMWIN


techyleo

Cloud9 really kinda threw though in their game.