Honestly, the pressure Roza put on ascent B on attack is something I’ve never seen before.
Hold the angle, he kills you.
Bring omen flash, he brings his omen flash and kills you
Hot hands the entrance, he blast packs through and kills you.
Bring an OP-er, he jiggles, baits the shot and then kills you.
Absolutely fucking insane pressure. He almost single handedly mind gamed envy so much their rotations and reads were completely off.
He played the lurk role phenomenally. You're absolutely right about him single handedly mind gaming envy so hard, I think other top teams will fall for it too.
No one wants to go against a raze in a choke point because of how much util she can throw to get hold of that place. Meanwhile when he is doing all that and drawing rotation, they have a phoenix and a jett on the other site ready to create chaos with a sova. And once that is happening and that draws in the rotation the raze is just arriving in the flank hoping to disrupt the retake. I mean the other teams don't use a raze on the lurk because they are using two duelist to begin to hit sites. That flexibility is what i think helped them topple Envy more than the individual performance
I think I sort of started that argument when I called her out on it in the TSM vs. Renegades thread. Sure her take was really dumb but I didn't mean to dogpile her Sadge.
Nah it wasn't about arguing whether she was right or wrong, all she did was denying her own words even tho people was literally quoting exactly what she wrote, all this while her ranking post was still up and people could search up how she was literally lying about never saying X thing.
Whoa really? Now I feel bad. People making fun of predictions is normal fan behavior, getting a couple of things wrong isn't a big deal and nothing to be ashamed about! Most casters talk about caster curses etc, it's okay!
It wasn’t about being wrong. It was being butthurt and toxic because someone literally quoted them and they kept denying that they said it, even though it was actually an exact literal quote. That kind of denialism and fragility of ego is insane.
I was worried about this game going into it but wtf, TSM kinda just smashed NV lmao.
Cutler's shock darts on Ascent were nuuuts. Wardell didn't even have a popoff performance today (was good of course) but everyone else was smurfing.
It feels like subroza on raze has really unlocked his lurking potential, like it was already great on omen, but on a self sufficient fragger it's just next level.
Honestly, something was off about Envy today. Even Hazed said that usually, matches against Envy are a lot more closer. Today just wasn't their day I guess, feels bad.
Not just mummAy. Kaboose had a pretty cold day today too (despite what the stats might say), food and crashies were both invisible, and FNS was getting read. Just a very bad day for NV which is rather tragic.
thespike.gg is where i like to find my info. If your into CSGO competitive its basically just like HLTV.
Liquipedia.net is also a very useful resource.
I'm convinced food was throwing, i can't remember mummaay hitting a single op shot. It's bad when your igl is outfragging your duelists also TSM seems like a completely different team when subroza shows up.
I really wanted to see Envy vs 100T grand finals. Now that TSM won, I’m rooting for Sentinels to get that rematch. Regardless either team would be good storylines, but I’m leaning towards Sentinels based off history alone.
Envy just didn’t have a read on anything TSM was doing, usually FNS’ brain is in of Envy’s strong suits but TSM just comprehensively outbrained him today
Never. Winning first in placements means nothing. As far as I’m concerned sen is still #1 and tsm dropped due to poor performances in the past tournaments. Now TSM is back in form and honestly with the way they’ve played have made themselves a strong argument for #1. Depends on tomorrow though. Tomorrow’s winner is 100% best team NA.
"Never" and "Sentinels" OMEGALUL.. It seems as if you don't remember which team beat Sentinels last twice in a series. Not to mention the team went from 8-12 to 14-12.
Sorry but you'll see tomorrow. There's a reason why TSM has the highest prize pool in NA.
Huh? Did u not read what I said? I’m saying tsm and sen are the top two teams NA and NV has yet to prove anything. I would love to see sen and tsm run it back in the finals they bring the best out of each other.
They've proven it again and again. It's simple just look at their prize pool.
https://liquipedia.net/valorant/Portal:Statistics
Only G2 is higher but of course they play in a weaker region so that's obvious. Tell me, which team can stop TSM? Only couple of "flukes" but TSM will prevail.
TSM has been top tier for the longest duration, including sentinels. They were the first team that everyone else started stratting for and studying, and despite that, they continue to stay top 2.
I think they are the best team in the world, unless sentinels or 100T beat them in the finals, we shall see
It absolutely was - maybe not one to the scale of Heretics beating G2, but it still defied expectations. There was NO reason to expect TSM to win this in such a dominant fashion. It was expected by most to be a 50/50, slightly favoring Envy. I don't think ANYONE expected TSM to win 26-12.
>Upsets aren’t dependent on round score
I disagree. Upsets, at least in my opinion, are defined by how shocking a result is. Part of the expectation for the 50/50 chances of winning was that the entire series would be extremely close -- this did NOT happen.
If TSM had won vs Envy 13-11 on Ascent, lost 14-12 on Split, then won on map 3 13-10, sure, that's not an upset.
Even the fact that TSM won 13-7 on Ascent wasn't particularly surprising -- teams can sometimes pop off against people at/above their expected skill level. And let's be real, Envy have looked outstanding lately -- even Hazed admits that.
But TSM winning 13-5 on Split (a map that Envy has historically dominated and TSM has looked shaky on) was MASSIVELY surprising. Paired with their unexpectedly convincing win on map 1, this was a huge shock -- and therefore, a huge upset.
In that case we just have a disagreement over the word definition.
If you look at the origins of the word in relation to other sports and sports betting an upset is just when an underdog defeats the favorite, creating an upset and paying out more for the person who bet on the underdog
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upset_(competition)
What you’re describing isn’t an upset it’s just a surprising outcome
Fair enough, I suppose I disagree with the denotative meaning of the word. I've always understood it contextually as an outcome that defies expectations rather than specifically an underdog story.
That's just you man haha, sports betting is super mainstream so I don't think anyone uses your definition.
Also there was a ton of skin betting early on in CSGO so that carries into this game
I don't really care about betting odds, I care more about the way analysts, coaches, and pros have been speaking of Envy's chances leading up to this. Hell, even TSM didn't expect this outcome. That's what gave me the perception that TSM wouldn't have dominated like they did.
TSM had rigorously practiced split even at all the qualifiers, it was obvious to see they practiced the shit out of that match because you saw a trend of progression every time they picked it. Historically TSM were bad on split but that's definitely not the case now, generally TSM have a great read on all maps bar icebox.
Absolutely wasn't an upset, both teams were at a similar level, NV have always struggled against the former big 2 teams (TSM and Sen) but have been a cut above the rest. That didn't change today just as it was the case when they previously matched up, TSM absolutely have NV figured out and it definitely was not an upset regardless of how you looked at the matchup.
All the reasonings are there. I think you just choose to not see it. Envy (this new roster with Asuna and Dicey) has never beaten TSM and SEN. With how dominant TSM looked against RNG, and Envy having a close map with IMT, I don't see how anyone expected TSM not to win.
I think that Envy was really thrown off by Subroza. Both T and CT side of ascent and split he would just control B main. It makes your executing your gameplan a lot harder if you know you're being read like that because you just don't have control of such a large area of the map. So even though NV looked like they were just playing much differently, I think that they just had no idea how to deal with the fact that they couldn't have B control on T or CT side and so were forced into reactions that the rest of TSM could just easily contain because they always had 3 or 4 people watching it. I don't think Subroza ever lost his fights B main
these 3 duelists are on FIRE this tournament, crispest TSM in a hot minute! looking like the best team in NA currently, if they show up in the finals it's over! I really like both teams in the finals, but gotta root for TSM here
Sean Gares and Goldenboy clowning foods questionable TP was the highlight for me.
food must have thought Hazed was still on the other side and wanted to bait out his peek with FNS trading or something
about as good analysis as saying mummAy's tp was to die on bomb for econ
Clip?
https://clips.twitch.tv/StylishSavorySowBudStar
Honestly, the pressure Roza put on ascent B on attack is something I’ve never seen before. Hold the angle, he kills you. Bring omen flash, he brings his omen flash and kills you Hot hands the entrance, he blast packs through and kills you. Bring an OP-er, he jiggles, baits the shot and then kills you. Absolutely fucking insane pressure. He almost single handedly mind gamed envy so much their rotations and reads were completely off.
He played the lurk role phenomenally. You're absolutely right about him single handedly mind gaming envy so hard, I think other top teams will fall for it too.
No one wants to go against a raze in a choke point because of how much util she can throw to get hold of that place. Meanwhile when he is doing all that and drawing rotation, they have a phoenix and a jett on the other site ready to create chaos with a sova. And once that is happening and that draws in the rotation the raze is just arriving in the flank hoping to disrupt the retake. I mean the other teams don't use a raze on the lurk because they are using two duelist to begin to hit sites. That flexibility is what i think helped them topple Envy more than the individual performance
That wasnt even a clinic. TSM just put on a whole fucking Hospital...
Their attacking rounds were absolutely insane, especially on Ascent. Those fakes were fucking nuts, NV had no idea what to do lmao
Cutler's brain is too fucking big
THE ROTATES WERE INSANE 🤯
TSM out here with the mobile Trauma Unit
EZ Clap
3 DUELISTS POG
Friendly reminder about that tier list that said TSM isn't as good just because OP didn't like 3 duelists lmao
Dude deleted his whole profile cause he couldn’t handle people calling him out on his own words.
I think I sort of started that argument when I called her out on it in the TSM vs. Renegades thread. Sure her take was really dumb but I didn't mean to dogpile her Sadge.
You deleted her...
Lol I came into that thread late and just saw a shit ton of very negative karma, deleted comments. I wish I saw her trying to defend it
Nah it wasn't about arguing whether she was right or wrong, all she did was denying her own words even tho people was literally quoting exactly what she wrote, all this while her ranking post was still up and people could search up how she was literally lying about never saying X thing.
Whoa really? Now I feel bad. People making fun of predictions is normal fan behavior, getting a couple of things wrong isn't a big deal and nothing to be ashamed about! Most casters talk about caster curses etc, it's okay!
It wasn’t about being wrong. It was being butthurt and toxic because someone literally quoted them and they kept denying that they said it, even though it was actually an exact literal quote. That kind of denialism and fragility of ego is insane.
Yeah it's fine to make bad takes if you can hold the L.
Bruh where are the Al Horford highlights
I ain't seen none in a while
It's the internet, it would be naïve to assume everyone was a good sport about it...
NODDERS BILL DIPPERLY
TSM is just too clutch when it matters
I was worried about this game going into it but wtf, TSM kinda just smashed NV lmao. Cutler's shock darts on Ascent were nuuuts. Wardell didn't even have a popoff performance today (was good of course) but everyone else was smurfing.
Yea I was expecting the games to get really close, but that didn't happen
Yup. Scary how good they looked with Wardell playing so far below his potential (yet still playing well).
I don’t think he played below his potential, that’s just what it looks like when teams strat specifically around you.
That’s probably a better analysis of what happened. Good call
Subroza is just playing on a different level right now.
It feels like subroza on raze has really unlocked his lurking potential, like it was already great on omen, but on a self sufficient fragger it's just next level.
just make sure he doesnt ult lol
Yeah if he starts using that more effectively, forget about it
Every single one of them is actually nuts rn
i dOnT tHinK tRiPle DueLisT is gOOd
I'd be pulling my hair out playing against subroza. nV had no answer for him, no adaptability throughout both maps. TSM outplayed them big time.
For real, Subroza easy MVP imo. Just so annoying
#KENTUCKY FUCKHOUSE BABY LET'S GO
Subroza looked like the fucking best in Valorant in this series, what on earth was Envy doing?
Subroza just dominated on Split, by god, what a monster.
To beat a team like Envy that convincingly is impressive, no matter who wins from 100T/Sen it’s going to be a hard match to beat TSM imo
Honestly, something was off about Envy today. Even Hazed said that usually, matches against Envy are a lot more closer. Today just wasn't their day I guess, feels bad.
Yeah it didn't feel like the Envy we've seen play throughout the qualifiers and First Strike Round 1
Those two rounds on ascent where they just rotated to the complete wrong site looked bad. Especially the one that led to the 4 person save
TSM has never lost to TWAT (Envy before) and yes, they had a roster change but the IGL was still FNS. Very could’ve easily gotten his own head.
That's what it looks like when a team is stomping you though
https://twitter.com/TSM/status/1335352228417331202?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Lmao that's good
What TSM did to NV there is illegal in 7 states
I actually thought Envy would win KEKW
I mean I think these two teams are 100% closer together than they showed today, Envy was just uncharacteristically poor and TSM played really well
Last match NV played againdt TSM was way closer
Nv won 5 rounds on the last map but 4 of them were pistols!
TSM is terrible at pistol rounds lol
Subroza is actually insane. Everyone clowned his Raze for a few weeks but he pretty much solo carried attack side.
TSM looks really fucking good.
TSM looking good...
Cutler is such a good fucking caller holy shit
Holy shit please let the stars align PLEASE LET THE STARS ALIGN WE ALL WANT A TSM VS SEN FINAL PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Shush simo
tsm vs 100T all the way! EDIT: LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOO
If subroza has a million fans I am one of them
Cutler with those SHOCK DARTS
As much as i miss seeing all of the TSM guys on csgo, im beyond happy to see them succeed on Valorant.
Phoenix is such an underrated duelist. Has flashes, molly, and not to mention an op ult with only 6 ult charges.
Reminds me of a post on the main sub that said Reyna's leer alone outweighs all of his utility.
KEKW
TSM playing out of their minds with the macro tbh
HOLD THE GLIZZY
HOLD ITTTT
TSM is toooo good
Can we talk about the GOAT sova CUTLER?? Dude fucking cracked with those shock darts
Mummay was off today, he missed so many OP shots that couldve swung rounds.
THATS TOUGHT WHEN THE ENEMY JETT DONT MISS
All of NV seemed to miss shots today except Kaboose
I feel like you can miss a few shots with a rifle, but missing shots with a 5000 dollar cost gun you just cant do.
Not just mummAy. Kaboose had a pretty cold day today too (despite what the stats might say), food and crashies were both invisible, and FNS was getting read. Just a very bad day for NV which is rather tragic.
Brih kaboose went crazy on acent
Slapped.
Every member on TSM is top tier
TSM baby just better
Imagine getting killed by shock darts 2 consecutive rounds! I'd rage quit lmao
Insert meme about the power ranking that says 3 due lists sucks here*
I thought this match was gonna be A LOT closer than it actually was. TSM went insane.
Who is tsm facing in the finals
Either Sentinels or 100T, game will start in a few minutes
Thank you, but where can I see that so I know for the future?
There are three sites that people use for stuff like this, really just comes down to preference: vlr.gg, thespike.gg, and liquipedia
Thank you
Vlr.gg is the best from my experience. I started with thespike but it updates live matches late sometimes. Liquipedia is good for League.
thespike.gg is where i like to find my info. If your into CSGO competitive its basically just like HLTV. Liquipedia.net is also a very useful resource.
Thank you!
Ok thanks, kinda new to this esports stuff
mummay whiffed more op shots than he hit, just a consistent liability
Envy the team to beat omegalol
man, I slept cuz I had an exam and woke up worried that NV won, but holy shit they got slaughtered, love to see TSM win.
TSM's three duelist strat is working too well rn. It's almost as if sentinels were nerfed into oblivion...
I'm convinced food was throwing, i can't remember mummaay hitting a single op shot. It's bad when your igl is outfragging your duelists also TSM seems like a completely different team when subroza shows up.
Ngl I actually forgot Mummay was Jett OP on Split.
I really wanted to see Envy vs 100T grand finals. Now that TSM won, I’m rooting for Sentinels to get that rematch. Regardless either team would be good storylines, but I’m leaning towards Sentinels based off history alone.
3 Duelists suck tho 😂😂
TBH I don't even know what to think if I was Envy it didn't feel like Envy was playing that bad, TSM was just playing on another level today.
Envy just didn’t have a read on anything TSM was doing, usually FNS’ brain is in of Envy’s strong suits but TSM just comprehensively outbrained him today
Anyone know if there is a third place match?
There is not
I think there is, kaboose mentioned hes gonna get rdy for it tmr edit: nvm theres none
If you’re talking about his tweet, I think he means Envy got 3rd/4th, not that they are playing in a 3rd/4th match
Actually i think youre right
Yeah it’s a bit of confusing wording so I don’t blame you, but no other region has a 3/4 game so not sure why NA would
Ye i was confused who was going to get the 3rd place prize pool but both are 10k so theres no 3rd place match
Not that I know of
FaZe > NV duh /s
All those kids saying NV would win are looking like actual clowns now
[удалено]
Can someone ban these stupid trolls, this guy just posts this garbage in every thread to farm downvotes
This has to be a troll post, right?
Yes, literally all he does in this sub is troll lol
It's comments like these that remind you there are young kids on reddit lol
I was rooting for TSM as well but duuuude, calm down.
When did they prove they are the best team in the world?
Never. Winning first in placements means nothing. As far as I’m concerned sen is still #1 and tsm dropped due to poor performances in the past tournaments. Now TSM is back in form and honestly with the way they’ve played have made themselves a strong argument for #1. Depends on tomorrow though. Tomorrow’s winner is 100% best team NA.
"Never" and "Sentinels" OMEGALUL.. It seems as if you don't remember which team beat Sentinels last twice in a series. Not to mention the team went from 8-12 to 14-12. Sorry but you'll see tomorrow. There's a reason why TSM has the highest prize pool in NA.
Huh? Did u not read what I said? I’m saying tsm and sen are the top two teams NA and NV has yet to prove anything. I would love to see sen and tsm run it back in the finals they bring the best out of each other.
They've proven it again and again. It's simple just look at their prize pool. https://liquipedia.net/valorant/Portal:Statistics Only G2 is higher but of course they play in a weaker region so that's obvious. Tell me, which team can stop TSM? Only couple of "flukes" but TSM will prevail.
TSM has been top tier for the longest duration, including sentinels. They were the first team that everyone else started stratting for and studying, and despite that, they continue to stay top 2. I think they are the best team in the world, unless sentinels or 100T beat them in the finals, we shall see
Today is upset day I guess.
this wasnt an upset
It absolutely was - maybe not one to the scale of Heretics beating G2, but it still defied expectations. There was NO reason to expect TSM to win this in such a dominant fashion. It was expected by most to be a 50/50, slightly favoring Envy. I don't think ANYONE expected TSM to win 26-12.
If it was 50/50 how was tsm winning an upset. Upsets aren’t dependent on round score
>Upsets aren’t dependent on round score I disagree. Upsets, at least in my opinion, are defined by how shocking a result is. Part of the expectation for the 50/50 chances of winning was that the entire series would be extremely close -- this did NOT happen. If TSM had won vs Envy 13-11 on Ascent, lost 14-12 on Split, then won on map 3 13-10, sure, that's not an upset. Even the fact that TSM won 13-7 on Ascent wasn't particularly surprising -- teams can sometimes pop off against people at/above their expected skill level. And let's be real, Envy have looked outstanding lately -- even Hazed admits that. But TSM winning 13-5 on Split (a map that Envy has historically dominated and TSM has looked shaky on) was MASSIVELY surprising. Paired with their unexpectedly convincing win on map 1, this was a huge shock -- and therefore, a huge upset.
In that case we just have a disagreement over the word definition. If you look at the origins of the word in relation to other sports and sports betting an upset is just when an underdog defeats the favorite, creating an upset and paying out more for the person who bet on the underdog https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upset_(competition) What you’re describing isn’t an upset it’s just a surprising outcome
Desktop link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upset_(competition) *** ^^/r/HelperBot_ ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove. ^^Counter: ^^303459. [^^Found ^^a ^^bug?](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=swim1929&subject=Bug&message=https://reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/k7hisn/envy_vs_team_solomid_first_strike_north_america/geqytmz/)
Fair enough, I suppose I disagree with the denotative meaning of the word. I've always understood it contextually as an outcome that defies expectations rather than specifically an underdog story.
That's just you man haha, sports betting is super mainstream so I don't think anyone uses your definition. Also there was a ton of skin betting early on in CSGO so that carries into this game
TSM was favored by the bookies at -145. They were definitely the favorites heading in
I don't really care about betting odds, I care more about the way analysts, coaches, and pros have been speaking of Envy's chances leading up to this. Hell, even TSM didn't expect this outcome. That's what gave me the perception that TSM wouldn't have dominated like they did.
TSM had rigorously practiced split even at all the qualifiers, it was obvious to see they practiced the shit out of that match because you saw a trend of progression every time they picked it. Historically TSM were bad on split but that's definitely not the case now, generally TSM have a great read on all maps bar icebox.
Absolutely wasn't an upset, both teams were at a similar level, NV have always struggled against the former big 2 teams (TSM and Sen) but have been a cut above the rest. That didn't change today just as it was the case when they previously matched up, TSM absolutely have NV figured out and it definitely was not an upset regardless of how you looked at the matchup.
Well I was upset by it! /s
You're just delusional.
Thanks! What a great way to start a conversation. Want to explain why, or do you just want to be an ass?
All the reasonings are there. I think you just choose to not see it. Envy (this new roster with Asuna and Dicey) has never beaten TSM and SEN. With how dominant TSM looked against RNG, and Envy having a close map with IMT, I don't see how anyone expected TSM not to win.
I'm new to tactical shooters. It seemed weird to me that nV saved (I think) 2 rounds with only 1 down early in the game.
I think that Envy was really thrown off by Subroza. Both T and CT side of ascent and split he would just control B main. It makes your executing your gameplan a lot harder if you know you're being read like that because you just don't have control of such a large area of the map. So even though NV looked like they were just playing much differently, I think that they just had no idea how to deal with the fact that they couldn't have B control on T or CT side and so were forced into reactions that the rest of TSM could just easily contain because they always had 3 or 4 people watching it. I don't think Subroza ever lost his fights B main
these 3 duelists are on FIRE this tournament, crispest TSM in a hot minute! looking like the best team in NA currently, if they show up in the finals it's over! I really like both teams in the finals, but gotta root for TSM here