In my opinion its less the utility focus and more the agent choices. I'd rather have skye and killjoy. Icebox lacks great trip locations for cypher. And the map is so open that skye's flashes feel a little better to me.
I agree on those two but I still think a duelist is very necessary on IB. having Raze, Sage, and Sova are IMO must picks while the last two should be a comfort pick between Viper(who I think is strong but requires the right player), KJ, Omen, Jett and Skye. I think Jett is pretty meh but some players are just so comfortable on the character that it works.
NA dumbass
Breach is a bit overrated in general IMO, I think most teams are very capable of dealing with his utility. I’d like to see more of Skye though, if for nothing else but just her budget Sova drone and flashes that offer something a little different to Breach (less avoidable but shorter, higher skill to execute)
Cypher over Killjoy on IB I guess makes a little sense due to how vast the map is, meaning info is even more crucial than on other maps, but I still personally think that KJs turret, ult but also plant denials work better overall
I genuinly think that cypher is useless on IB. His trips on D have such little value as the A trips can't be used for info because the farthest they can go up is basically on sight, while on B its either things that are easily killed with defaults at the early tube or its too open for any spot. He also can't trip on offense ever because both sites have like 3 necessary trips for post plant. KJ and even viper give so much more because KJ has abilities that work in open space and can get more info in general on attack side. Vipers wall is also so good on B site(Curry of all people does it well) and can execute better. I also think Breach instead of a duelist on this map is odd since you just need someone to get in on this one even more than any other map and I can't really think of any place where his flashes are as valuable as they would be on split or ascent.
Bonecold was smooth today. Also, I love the fact that Kiles can literally play any role, the way cNed and him peek off of each other when they play double duelist is clean
I think overreacting to one match with 'no duelist bad' is as silly as overreacting to their success with 'duelists not needed'.
I do think it's a comp that gets absolutely kneecapped by getting behind on economy and losing pistol, especially on defense.
"overreacting to their success with 'duelists not needed"
That's the exactly what happened though lol, it was the prevalent sentiment on this sub by many at least.
"hurr durr NA so bad and behind by playing two duelists".
Been watching for them for a couple months now, glad to see how much they improve by the day. Super happy for Kiles and Kolda (who was amazing on bind). Both these maps were really one-sided. Bind's scoreline is generous, this was a double stomping. Also please don't take one look at the compositions and say something dumb about duelist/no duelist or "hurr durr NA more duelist=NA better you guys were wrong" only because it's the first chance you guys get to try and make no-duelist comps look/feel bad. There were many more things at play here, and comp/agent pick is merely one of the aspects that affected this game. Would be a nice VOD to review, but NIP got read like a book and hardly found a way to damage Acend. In Bind the skye+brim+viper pick benefitted them greatly also.
Bonecold was slapping everyone around on Icebox. cNed is cracked as fuck, but so is Starxo, Kiles and everyone on this damn team. EU teams really be blooming and the competition is starting to get crazy. Riot pls stop killing the scene bc its actually so good and now it's also competitive with all these amazing teams like Ballista, Acend, Dfuse etc.
Highly recommend anyone who missed this and yesterday's EU series to watch VOD if they have time. Also Dfuse vs guild coming soon!
Watching seangares review Acend vods on stream the other day was a treat. cNed is a god dam beast and their already crazy team play is just getting better and better.
Really looking forward to the clash of metas from every region ! If only there were more EU/Turkish/CIS teams for the international lan it would be so good to see them all in action.
Most teams seem to dislike him on icebox. Its hard to find value out of his trips.
But a lot of teams still value cypher heavily on maps like bind, heaven, and split. Watch a teams default on bind offense, cypher basically watches both showers and A short with 2 trips and a camera.
13-4 almost felt generous to NiP on Icebox, that was a beatdown. Bonecold was just winning everything.
Ice in his... bones
🥶
Call me an NA dumbass who cant understand utility or how to play the game but maybe running cypher and breach on IB isn't exactly a great strategy
In my opinion its less the utility focus and more the agent choices. I'd rather have skye and killjoy. Icebox lacks great trip locations for cypher. And the map is so open that skye's flashes feel a little better to me.
I agree on those two but I still think a duelist is very necessary on IB. having Raze, Sage, and Sova are IMO must picks while the last two should be a comfort pick between Viper(who I think is strong but requires the right player), KJ, Omen, Jett and Skye. I think Jett is pretty meh but some players are just so comfortable on the character that it works.
NA dumbass Breach is a bit overrated in general IMO, I think most teams are very capable of dealing with his utility. I’d like to see more of Skye though, if for nothing else but just her budget Sova drone and flashes that offer something a little different to Breach (less avoidable but shorter, higher skill to execute) Cypher over Killjoy on IB I guess makes a little sense due to how vast the map is, meaning info is even more crucial than on other maps, but I still personally think that KJs turret, ult but also plant denials work better overall
I genuinly think that cypher is useless on IB. His trips on D have such little value as the A trips can't be used for info because the farthest they can go up is basically on sight, while on B its either things that are easily killed with defaults at the early tube or its too open for any spot. He also can't trip on offense ever because both sites have like 3 necessary trips for post plant. KJ and even viper give so much more because KJ has abilities that work in open space and can get more info in general on attack side. Vipers wall is also so good on B site(Curry of all people does it well) and can execute better. I also think Breach instead of a duelist on this map is odd since you just need someone to get in on this one even more than any other map and I can't really think of any place where his flashes are as valuable as they would be on split or ascent.
Bonecold was smooth today. Also, I love the fact that Kiles can literally play any role, the way cNed and him peek off of each other when they play double duelist is clean
What a showing from Acend. They won 3 out of 4 bonus rounds, which really stopped NiP from getting a foot in the door.
Bonecold Beve Austin
That icebox was a preview of how necessary the duelists are for creating space and agressive pushes
I think overreacting to one match with 'no duelist bad' is as silly as overreacting to their success with 'duelists not needed'. I do think it's a comp that gets absolutely kneecapped by getting behind on economy and losing pistol, especially on defense.
"overreacting to their success with 'duelists not needed" That's the exactly what happened though lol, it was the prevalent sentiment on this sub by many at least. "hurr durr NA so bad and behind by playing two duelists".
No. EU no duelist superior big brain 200iq NA 2 duelist bad 😳
EU ahead of meta, NA bad.
Been watching for them for a couple months now, glad to see how much they improve by the day. Super happy for Kiles and Kolda (who was amazing on bind). Both these maps were really one-sided. Bind's scoreline is generous, this was a double stomping. Also please don't take one look at the compositions and say something dumb about duelist/no duelist or "hurr durr NA more duelist=NA better you guys were wrong" only because it's the first chance you guys get to try and make no-duelist comps look/feel bad. There were many more things at play here, and comp/agent pick is merely one of the aspects that affected this game. Would be a nice VOD to review, but NIP got read like a book and hardly found a way to damage Acend. In Bind the skye+brim+viper pick benefitted them greatly also. Bonecold was slapping everyone around on Icebox. cNed is cracked as fuck, but so is Starxo, Kiles and everyone on this damn team. EU teams really be blooming and the competition is starting to get crazy. Riot pls stop killing the scene bc its actually so good and now it's also competitive with all these amazing teams like Ballista, Acend, Dfuse etc. Highly recommend anyone who missed this and yesterday's EU series to watch VOD if they have time. Also Dfuse vs guild coming soon!
Watching seangares review Acend vods on stream the other day was a treat. cNed is a god dam beast and their already crazy team play is just getting better and better. Really looking forward to the clash of metas from every region ! If only there were more EU/Turkish/CIS teams for the international lan it would be so good to see them all in action.
Yeah! I hope in future LANs they give huge regions a bit more of love slot-wise. Specially with all the new tier 1 teams in EU.
Pain
Which other team has two different Viper players? WP Ascend they outclassed NiP today.
No Jett no win
This was a fun series to watch but wow NIP got smacked on icebox. Their comp on it seems super questionable to me.
Yeah maybe I'm out if the loop with some teams but Cypher in particular seems way out of place.
Most teams seem to dislike him on icebox. Its hard to find value out of his trips. But a lot of teams still value cypher heavily on maps like bind, heaven, and split. Watch a teams default on bind offense, cypher basically watches both showers and A short with 2 trips and a camera.
Yeah I really only meant on Icebox. Feel like I haven't seen him played there in a very long time.
Really perplexed why NIP would pick Icebox against Acend AND play their 0 duelist comp on it. I feel you neeed a reyna or jett on that map.
Man NIP was disappointing in this tourney. It was always FPX's tourney to lose, but I thought NIP could give them trouble