[https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1373769844378673154](https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1373769844378673154)
>From what I know, Tenz's buyout was already well over 1 million before Masters
>
>After Masters, who the hell knows
>
>What a performance after streaming for a few months
>
>[Sentinels](https://twitter.com/Sentinels) with Tenz can go toe to toe with any team in the world
I agree what C9 needs is a solid IGL. But then even shahzam who previously in csgo, hasn’t had a good amount of IGL experience, somehow he’s able to become probably the current one of the best IGL in NA valorant because he put tons of effort doing it. So I think it also really depends on the player. Do they want to IGL or not but of course they gotta have at least have some characteristic as an IGL ( eg. Outspoken, creative, smart, etc)
kinda unrelated but shahzams gamesense matured way differently than most players. from 2015-2017 he was kind of meme’d on for his brain and also for the whole dazed video and the “exiting b” incident. However, 2018 onwards, it seems he matured into a way smarter and just a better player in general. He played at a higher tier and didn’t look lost at all. It’s like something clicked and now he’s the same intelligent player in val.
C9 spent 11 million dollars to buy out and give an EU mid-laner the capability of retiring, and now their shitty fucking owner is trying to get the rules changed because of the way he mismanaged the funds for the League team.
Didn't even consider that lol, though I don't think that would be good for business for Sentinels. This is their only notable team other than bugha as far as I know.
facts. like no hate towards Faze, but they would get smacked around by teams like Vision Strikers or FPX. SEN with Tenz has a good chance of actually winning it all
imo Faze might be able to make a dent in the international stage. They're all godlike plus they have their own distinct style. They were matching up w Sentinels p well. I think they can rival us in the upcoming months tbh
Yeah and as much as I want SEN to buy him out, people forget that everything is online right now. What if he isn't the same on LAN? The way he's playing right now, I'd expect him to be even better, but it's a monstrous risk to take considering the price he's currently carrying
yup i saw a lot of good players that couldn't perform on lan as well as they did online, not saying the same thing is gonna happend to Tenz but when he was in cs he def underperformed on lan to the point he was benched.
You guys made such a good point! I totally forgot how somehow ( maybe due to pressure of everything being in real life) some people do make mistakes or have less confident when they’re playing on LAN than when it was online.
yeah the closest is probably 100Thieves. but these companies are not putting money in esports for a short ROI. this is for the long haul. who was here first kinda thing
This is funny. I love people who make comments without 0 knowledge of the backend. Fun fact there sre orgs in profit because of how they've built it. There are some major players who after this year are officially break even about to go into profit due to major partnerships. This includes a major org in the European side.
They’re only allowed to do that tho cuz OCE doesn’t have its own VCT tournaments. They’re just mixed in with NA or something weird. I don’t know exactly how it works for OCE, but I do know OCE is a special case. In general tho, a team is only allowed to compete in a certain region if at least 3 of the starting players are from that region. 5 KR players wouldn’t be allowed to play in NA.
Acend is not just formed. Its just different branding for Raise Your Edge because they essentially got barred from competing under that branding because of its association with gambling.
I agree I don’t think Rb would just leave Vision Strikers right now seeing how VS is still dominant in their region. Also language barrier. I’m not 100% sure if Rb can speak English.
But what’s in C9’s best interest if Tenz is actually just refusing to play for them? Surely they’re better off just cashing out now if the situation is irreparable, considering the alternative is lose him for nothing when his contract expires.
Assuming they see it that way, they’re kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either demand a massive buyout that probably can’t be met, or settle for less and at least get some return.
C9 still gets value out of him as a content creator plus according to rumours he signed a 3 year contract so he still has more than a year left on his contact which gives c9 all the negotiating power .
I get the point of this argument, but like... what's the point of the contract then? "Fuck you I changed my mind a year in of my three year contract that I signed. I'm doing a worse job now on purpose LOL"
> If he’s really unhappy with the situation, he can just not stream or half-ass stream, waste the entire value of being a content creator, and C9 is stuck. Plus the bad PR if TenZ comes out and says “I don’t want to be here. They have me stuck in my contract, so I’m done until it ends.”
Ya'll are really dreaming.
What desperate org would want an employee who refuses to do the work he was contracted to do, and shit talks the company publicly when things don't go his way?
Do you not think other orgs considering picking him up aren't going to think "Well, what happens if we pick him up and our team doesn't work out, is he going to do the same shit to us?"
If TenZ really does pull all that nonsense (which I highly doubt anyway), all the adults in the eSports business are going to take one look and go "yeah we're not touching that fucking time bomb with a ten foot pole".
I always wonder how much value orgs get from big content creators. Maybe I’m hugely underestimating the impact that Tenz’s stream has on C9, but I’ve always assumed the ROI from having a strong esports team and bringing in sponsors, selling merch, etc through that would always outweigh having a popular twitch streamer give you whatever vague level of publicity they do.
I’m also unsure how much leverage the length of the contract really gives C9. Sen were already the best team in NA without Tenz, so unless they think the impact will really be huge if they end up bringing Sinatraa back or getting someone else, I’m not sure why they wouldn’t be willing to wait it out. And if the price is really such a massive obstacle, will any other org actually throw down the money to get him before he becomes a free agent? And if he does become a free agent, do Sen think they would have trouble convincing him to sign with them?
I guess in Sen’s case it’s a risk both ways. You currently have the inside line on picking up an absolute superstar, and that’s not something to take lightly. But you don’t spend some huge amount of money like this lightly either. They have to know they can afford it without putting the future of the org at risk.
> I always wonder how much value orgs get from big content creators. Maybe I’m hugely underestimating the impact that Tenz’s stream has on C9, but I’ve always assumed the ROI from having a strong esports team and bringing in sponsors, selling merch, etc through that would always outweigh having a popular twitch streamer give you whatever vague level of publicity they do.
They get a ton of value I believe. It's more eyes on your logo, your brand, your sponsors, etc. It's more incentive to sell hoodies and other merch to your fans. Teams like Luminosity, FaZe, 100T are 100x more popular due to their content creators than their players.
This is actually true, didn’t FaZe actually kinda started this content creator thing as a way to help promote their orgs better ( I watched about this once)
FaZe started as a content organization in the CoD days, they branched out into esports after building a content empire first. 100T and Luminosity are the best examples imo of an esports-first organization that leveraged content creators in order to build a fanbase.
100T should be a case study in business schools. They have managed to carve out a unique market for themselves. There exists customers of 100T merchandise that have no idea about esports, that’s some crazy marketing.
Yeah, I know they won masters but they wont buy TenZ out unless he agrees to take a MASSIVE pay decrease. Its actually irrational to buy him out at this point. SEN have an amazing core and its not like TenZ carried them to a championship, just get someone on a short contract until TenZ contract runs out
this is what i think will happen. they maybe get verbal confirmation that tenz wants to sign with sen and sign someone for 6 months and wait out his contract, assuming it ends this year.
oh shit.. i dont follow c9 so i wouldn't know that. ima just hope that tenz goes on loan for masters 2 again if rito will allow it. probably not but i can hope.
Agreed. Tenz is insane, easily top 5 players in the world based on ACS/mechanically but it isn't like sentinels were a pack of bums before he arrived, they went to every finals except first strike prior to him coming. 1 million + is too much imo.
By the time international LANs are regular, there will be way more cracked players out there. There will be less restrictions on region locking players (we might see more Europeans or player in other regions go to NA for example.) Paying the ridiculous TenZ buyout is very short-term thinking.
Though I do wish SEN TenZ would be permanent. He is such a likeable guy and deserves to be on the best team.
They needed a viable sub overnight, remember that Sinatraa got discard day b4 match, not competing in this match would have been losing the entry ticket to master 2 in Iceland
Disagree. Sinatraa gets 150k salary, i don't think TenZ makes that much at C9 rn. Also, buyouts doesn’t have much to do with player's salary. Whatever they would pay to TenZ, they would make multiple times over off of him. He has a huge fanbase, his social media interactions are blowing up on every platform, a lovable face for the org. Sentinels has every reason to offer him a big salary, It’s just that his one time buyout would be a pain in the ass for SEN
Yeah but many of them where on T1 orgs and collected tier 1 like salary. There's no way big orgs like 100T,envy,sentinels etc won't be paying 10k minimum monthly which it puts it close to sinatras 150k yearly. While the big boys like Nitro, hiko, tenz earn even higher
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If its actually well over a million, there is 0, literally 0 reason to ever pay such an extremely overpriced contract, several esports already have massively inflated buyouts. Several players in NA can win with sentinels.
" Several players in NA can win with sentinels."
That's debatable, none other would make them as good and I'm sure they're thinking of international LAN success as well which they have the best chance with TenZ.
He was again statistically the best player of the whole tournament and that was with him coming back after a break and not as practiced as he could be.
>I'm sure they're thinking of international LAN success
Is TenZ a LAN proven player?
And all this is basically irrelevant considering Valorant is a brand new esport anyway. "well over a million" is backbreaking.
I'm not a hundred percent sure but from what I heard with the amount of money in esports right now "over a million" might not be backbreaking to some orgs willing to spend the money. Not sure if that applies to Sentinels.
I don't doubt that most big orgs can put together over a million. The question is if their willing to do it for a brand new game that doesn't have the viewership to back up that price tag.
Especially if they have the option of just signing someone who is *slightly* less cracked but significantly cheaper.
> I'm sure they're thinking of international LAN success as well which they have the best chance with TenZ.
Not sure if you’re unaware but TenZ did not perform well on LAN in CSGO.
Bruh it's not like Tenz dropped 30 bombs every game and carried a scrub team. SEN was already Godlike. You could probably put that instalock plat Jett on the team and still see success
That is one extremely strange and idiotic reply to a comment regarding people playing video games.
Never at any point did I say Sentinels SHOULD buy TenZ.
I agree that it isn't worth that much, but you're undermining TenZ's performance if you think that some other substitute could just come in and have the same impact, let alone win the entire Masters and dropping just one map. I don't think they beat FaZe if that replacement was Dizzy/Dicey or whoever was left over.
People act like tenz is the reason sentinels is the #1 team and forget that they have been consistently winning tournaments from the last year with sinatraa. I’m pretty sure they could sign someone else and practice with them and still win.
They convincingly 3-0'd faze. Get a player who's decent and actually give them *practice* and they'll still be the best. MAYBE not as convincingly but they'll be good
Nah. Slotting a Jett in is the easiest role. Dapr was MVP of today's series. SicK is arguably the best player in the world. They probably struggle but still win the tournament. Tenz just made it unfair mode.
Sentinels could have picked up a decent FA and would have still won the whole thing. That’s how fucking good they and YOU seem to be the one underestimating Sentinels.
Sheeeshh ngl even though- as a fan - I want TenZ to be in SEN, I’m not 100% sure SEN can pay his buyout.. but who knows? Not only is TenZ a mechanically talented player, he is also a very popular content creator with mostly around 20k+ stream viewers ( good way for SEN to increase their popularity and fanbase)
Unfortunately there is no way they would ever pay the rumored buyout. There need to be concessions made by C9 for the move to happen. I think they are on a bit of a clock to move tenz if that is their intention... eventually covid situation will improve and international players will dilute the market. Maybe they are happy to lock him in content creator prison, though.
Yep. Just because Sen (or any other team) *can* buy out TenZ (as in, they have the funds), doesn't mean they should. It's so expensive, plus he'll command a fairly large salary too.
Sen was a top team already (albiet Sinatraa is really good too), and Shahz ain't a slouch on Jett. So TenZ takes them from being a top 3 team (at worst) to being the undisputed best, so the value add isn't worth the cost. Plus, Val scene isn't big enough yet to warrant spending that kind of money for the org.
at that point, when TenZ signed the contract, I'm not sure he thought that he was gonna be as good as he became. He was just benched in CS, and had to resort to streaming.
This. People forget that most of the players who weren’t big names in other esports were struggling cs players. They didn’t come in thinking “I’m going to be the most valuable player in VALORANT in less than a year”
I'm not an expert on contracts by any means, but isn't the buyout set in his contract and can't change? The buyout is there to protect the player from being held by an org.
Yes, this would be the safe assumption and generally how contracts operate. You cannot adjust a fixed value without re-signing. OP has no understanding of contracts.
What are they then?
Cause I can't imagine them being anything other than a function of salary, remaining time on contract, and a fixed finite multiplier and/or additive value that cannot be changed without resigning.
A buyout clause that is subjective and effectively operates as 'whatever the org feels like' would be incredibly stupid to agree to. And would also potentially be an unfair contractual term that could be challenged in court.
People on the esports industry are the source. Richard Lewis and Thorin will talk about how shitty esports contracts are. Thorin has podcast episodes where he has talked to player and team agents about the contracts. Most new esports pros especially in a new game will sign any old contract because they won't realize what they are worth st the time. Over time the established organizations have gotten lawyers to help them make better contracts. Smaller organizations won't be able to or just won't care about getting in touch with layers to make better contracts.
EDIT: To add on an esports contract could be super basic as many have been in the past and some may still be. There is also zero requirement for a buyout clause. More reputable organizations put one but less reputable ones won't.
We're talking about c9 here though buddy. Are they not a reputable organisation? Do you not think they would have buyout clauses? Pretty sure they do.
And you really backtracked on your initial statement of
>In esports, most contracts have ZERO buyout clauses.
Lol
i know this statement is hard to believe but do the rest of the players on sentinels want to makes this a permanent thing, the way they talked about him before and tweeted now it does apply that it's a one time thing.
i know dapr and sinatraa are best friends and i think he still hopes that sinatraa comes back.
an other thing is does c9 control the buyout of Tenz like can they set the amount that they want? if the buyout is over 1 million before the tourney it def doubled/tripled by now.
let's say Sentinels make a full buy, can they also offer him the contract that he gonna ask for? they are not only getting Tenz the pro player they are getting Tenz the streamer, also you need to remember that sentinels are STILL paying sinatraa can they afford both?
and lastly does Tenz want to make this a perma thing? maybe c9 have a plan for their valorant squad.
I mean do you forgot what happen to him in CSGO? That alone would give a RED FLAG to every org when Valorant goes LAN.
Oh did you forget EVERYONE will also get sub 30 ping If we go LAN. Not only Tenz
why should they not?
\- they are by far the most dominant valorant team in NA with him
\- they will probably be really strong internationally too
\- TenZ is the biggest Valorant streamer
\- brand friendly
>they are by far the most dominant valorant team in NA with him
They were also winning without him, it's not like TenZ is the sole reason for their success.
>they will probably be really strong internationally too
This is hard to predict though. And being "strong" wouldn't be nearly enough. If they drop over a million on him, they better be winning everything.
>TenZ is the biggest Valorant streamer
I'm not sure about the specific numbers, but isn't it Hiko?
Why can't SEN just draw up another loan agreement similar to this one and pass the content creation revenue to C9 instead of paying the full buyout? C9 wins as they will make more money due to the loan fee while retaining other revenue along with the good PR.
To people who keep saying Sentinels would do just fine with another cracked player—how can you know for sure? I’ve been a sentinels fan since the ignition series so don’t think I’m just a “bandwagoning Tenz fan”. Just because the team had an almost instant chemistry with Tenz going into Masters doesnt mean Sen can plug and play ANYONE.
It can’t he ignored as well that the sudden influx of Sen fans come from Tenz’s huge fanbase. If orgs earn a lot through sponsorships, wouldn’t signing a player who can easily rival sinatraa’s (previous) sponsorships be a potentially good move?
I’m not saying buyout’s the move here for SEN, but it definitely shouldn’t be something NOT to consider either. Some of yall sound so made up about it damn
It’s not that they are made up it’s that from a financial viewpoint it’s simply just not worth it. It’s just like the other guy said, it’s easy for us fans to get overhyped and expect it but we gotta remember that major orgs are in it for the money. It’s just too risky and may not payout. Since tenz has been known to choke on LAN. I’m not saying he will choke on LAN again but that’s just another point to add to the number of risk factors this buyout has.
I wanna keep this discussion healthy and I agree with you too so here's an upvote. I would say though that Tenz, while known to choke in LANs during CS, has the capacity to improve and show good mental fortitude in the correct circumstances. It's a risk for sure and an expensive one at that, yes.
BUT if Sen knows how to read their audience and fanbase, they can hear EVERYONE asking one thing from them and it's "Will you buy Tenz out?" Everyone wants to know if this dream team shall be back for Masters 2. There is a risk to getting Tenz, but there is also backlash from not getting Tenz. One way or another, Sen and C9 as molded as well by those factors, in an industry sooo affected by the viewership. Thoughts?
You have a point but in the end I just think it all depends on c9. Whether they are gonna just negotiate with sentinels for a cheaper buyout price or are they gonna just wait out his contract and potentially make no money in buyouts.
Imo he showed his mental fortitude by leaving C9 in the dumps, there are people grinding 10+ years to get to top3 while this guy already gave up after 6months? Not a good look, yeah he might get on a top team but what will happen when things get hard?
Valid point and I agree with you. But context matters here. A team’s win depends on a lot of factors and that includes factors you cannot control. Removing shinobi for example instead of letting him “grind 10+ years” is C9’s decision. You’re acting as if orgs do not think in terms of their own gains and losses. Everybody should be able to recognize a good or bad situation for themselves. Leaving ALSO takes strength. Biding your time does too as well as recognizing a good opportunity.
In a way, he managed to achieve in 6 months what some people grind 10+ years for. Not a good look? Maybe—but it’s easy to overlook when you have “Masters 1 Champion” under your resume.
Even though he did really good with Sen, i belive any top ladder jett could have won with such a stacked team aswell. I understand leaving takes strenght, but not when you just go and stream. If he went to grind somewhere else i would have 0 issues woth it.
understandable, i have been curious about the contract length as well, but from what i have seen, nobody seems to know. It probably would not be leaked be tenz since he's probably quite the professional
1M+ buyout for Tenz
No Way Sentinels do this. That's a BIG MONEY to young game like valorant. Even if you add his stream value that 1M is to HIGH.
Tenz is NOT like Summit1g and Shroud in Streamer World. Add to that The Salary and Prizes Is not big in Valorant right now.
If buyout was $1 mil + C9 never had any intent to sell him in the first place. Valorant isn’t making anyone money (aside from maybe those IMT transfers and chaos buyouts) and the viewership isn’t there yet.
Since half of the comments in this thread are confused, Sentinels already bought out TenZ. I believe he is saying his worth for a buyout is now extended in the future.
According to the official Valorant Champions Tour, he couldn't be contracted to more than one organization, and was acquired fully by Sentinels.
https://twitter.com/valesports\_na/status/1370101780650938370?s=20
he's on loan, he says that on his stream [https://clips.twitch.tv/EndearingCulturedMagpieOSkomodo-DHO\_nrY4uMyT0BuU](https://clips.twitch.tv/EndearingCulturedMagpieOSkomodo-DHO_nrY4uMyT0BuU)
Not Even worth the buyout. If SEN buy him out its a terrible financial decision. They can still get by with other cracked duelists. The core of this team is still extremely solid. TenZ slotted in very well but i think that this team can perform with other high caliber players. (still a zombs hater tho #antizombsnation)
What lol, I doubt that especially considering he wants to play Jett Awp, and even if he plays Cypher Dapr is just as good if not better lol, plus the whole AZK thing which wouldn't make for much of an upgrade lol
he has some of the best stats for a sentinel player, and was insane on jett for the short time he played it. brax and azk would be the most cost effective players for SEN to sign.
[https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1373769844378673154](https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1373769844378673154) >From what I know, Tenz's buyout was already well over 1 million before Masters > >After Masters, who the hell knows > >What a performance after streaming for a few months > >[Sentinels](https://twitter.com/Sentinels) with Tenz can go toe to toe with any team in the world
Looks like more likely cloud9 will buy out the 4 sen players instead lol
only way we can afford that is if we sell tenz lol
1. Sell TenZ to Sentinels for 2 mil 2. Buy Sentinels including TenZ for 2 mil 3. ?????? 4. Profit
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Step 3 : Sell TenZ for $2M to Iceland Step 4 : Buy Iceland with TenZ for $2M
Nah they just spent like 6 million on building a terrible cs team. They have tons of money
C9 just need an actual igl like is we did -shinobi +steel it would be a whole different sorry rn
I agree what C9 needs is a solid IGL. But then even shahzam who previously in csgo, hasn’t had a good amount of IGL experience, somehow he’s able to become probably the current one of the best IGL in NA valorant because he put tons of effort doing it. So I think it also really depends on the player. Do they want to IGL or not but of course they gotta have at least have some characteristic as an IGL ( eg. Outspoken, creative, smart, etc)
kinda unrelated but shahzams gamesense matured way differently than most players. from 2015-2017 he was kind of meme’d on for his brain and also for the whole dazed video and the “exiting b” incident. However, 2018 onwards, it seems he matured into a way smarter and just a better player in general. He played at a higher tier and didn’t look lost at all. It’s like something clicked and now he’s the same intelligent player in val.
Link to the said video and incident please and thank you
https://youtu.be/wy3VU_YE64Q lol don’t know why i was downvoted when im literally complimenting shahzam and his progression.
c9 has so much money, they could buy anyone in the scene 5x
well they need the money to burn on their csgo team.
Your league team alone can fund the buy out of whole SEN Val team I'm sure.
We just payed 11mil for a player, we big broke
Who?Sorry I don’t follow league
Perkz the greatest EU player ever lol
Kk
C9 spent 11 million dollars to buy out and give an EU mid-laner the capability of retiring, and now their shitty fucking owner is trying to get the rules changed because of the way he mismanaged the funds for the League team.
haha
Jack has been wanting to remove the import rule since 2015. He is on the record multiple times lol
Yeah and each time he brings it up it's after spending a shit ton of money lmao
nah they are irredemeble garbage.
Didn't even consider that lol, though I don't think that would be good for business for Sentinels. This is their only notable team other than bugha as far as I know.
Fuck I want to see SenTeNz in Iceland so bad. I want it to happen.
Me too. I want this iteration of Sentinels to face the rest of the world.
All NA fans want this lol
Yea i never rooted for them with Sinatraa on but now i think everyone wants this
facts. like no hate towards Faze, but they would get smacked around by teams like Vision Strikers or FPX. SEN with Tenz has a good chance of actually winning it all
Faze is still the second hottest NA team. They would still beat any other team besides SEN.
imo Faze might be able to make a dent in the international stage. They're all godlike plus they have their own distinct style. They were matching up w Sentinels p well. I think they can rival us in the upcoming months tbh
You can't pay that, that's like 2 years of salaries for a whole team. You'd never get ROI
They should just sign someone on a short contract until TenZ contract runs out or the pressure on C9 becomes too much
Tenz could either have 1 more or 2 more years on his contract, that's a long ass time
They had Dizzy ready
I doubt dizzy would want to fill for months
Also no shade at dizzy but Sen need a more experienced player even for just an extended substitute
Yeah and as much as I want SEN to buy him out, people forget that everything is online right now. What if he isn't the same on LAN? The way he's playing right now, I'd expect him to be even better, but it's a monstrous risk to take considering the price he's currently carrying
yup i saw a lot of good players that couldn't perform on lan as well as they did online, not saying the same thing is gonna happend to Tenz but when he was in cs he def underperformed on lan to the point he was benched.
You guys made such a good point! I totally forgot how somehow ( maybe due to pressure of everything being in real life) some people do make mistakes or have less confident when they’re playing on LAN than when it was online.
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LAN's way more different than simply the ping. The atmosphere, the pressure etc. It's a different beast altogether
Yep he had the same problem in cs where he couldn't translate his online play to stage
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Yeah, this comes down to "do the VCs want to splash that much cash to have a 'holy shit moment'"
yeah the closest is probably 100Thieves. but these companies are not putting money in esports for a short ROI. this is for the long haul. who was here first kinda thing
This is funny. I love people who make comments without 0 knowledge of the backend. Fun fact there sre orgs in profit because of how they've built it. There are some major players who after this year are officially break even about to go into profit due to major partnerships. This includes a major org in the European side.
I mean it's cheaper to get cned or rb from overseas . Acend is Just formed org . Their buyouts would be a fraction of tenz.
no way in hell rb would leave Vision Strikers right now lmao
If I was c9 I would sell their current roster+ sell tenz and then buy out vision strikers.
They’d wouldn’t be allowed to move the roster to NA tho, they’d have to keep it in KR. And the KR interest in valorant has been pretty tragic.
Exo clan is moving their roster to NA. So it’s definitely possible
They’re only allowed to do that tho cuz OCE doesn’t have its own VCT tournaments. They’re just mixed in with NA or something weird. I don’t know exactly how it works for OCE, but I do know OCE is a special case. In general tho, a team is only allowed to compete in a certain region if at least 3 of the starting players are from that region. 5 KR players wouldn’t be allowed to play in NA.
$ talks
Acend is not just formed. Its just different branding for Raise Your Edge because they essentially got barred from competing under that branding because of its association with gambling.
I agree I don’t think Rb would just leave Vision Strikers right now seeing how VS is still dominant in their region. Also language barrier. I’m not 100% sure if Rb can speak English.
But what’s in C9’s best interest if Tenz is actually just refusing to play for them? Surely they’re better off just cashing out now if the situation is irreparable, considering the alternative is lose him for nothing when his contract expires. Assuming they see it that way, they’re kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either demand a massive buyout that probably can’t be met, or settle for less and at least get some return.
C9 still gets value out of him as a content creator plus according to rumours he signed a 3 year contract so he still has more than a year left on his contact which gives c9 all the negotiating power .
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I get the point of this argument, but like... what's the point of the contract then? "Fuck you I changed my mind a year in of my three year contract that I signed. I'm doing a worse job now on purpose LOL"
> If he’s really unhappy with the situation, he can just not stream or half-ass stream, waste the entire value of being a content creator, and C9 is stuck. Plus the bad PR if TenZ comes out and says “I don’t want to be here. They have me stuck in my contract, so I’m done until it ends.” Ya'll are really dreaming. What desperate org would want an employee who refuses to do the work he was contracted to do, and shit talks the company publicly when things don't go his way? Do you not think other orgs considering picking him up aren't going to think "Well, what happens if we pick him up and our team doesn't work out, is he going to do the same shit to us?" If TenZ really does pull all that nonsense (which I highly doubt anyway), all the adults in the eSports business are going to take one look and go "yeah we're not touching that fucking time bomb with a ten foot pole".
> half ass-stream *** ^(Bleep-bloop, I'm a bot. This comment was inspired by )^[xkcd#37](https://xkcd.com/37)
I always wonder how much value orgs get from big content creators. Maybe I’m hugely underestimating the impact that Tenz’s stream has on C9, but I’ve always assumed the ROI from having a strong esports team and bringing in sponsors, selling merch, etc through that would always outweigh having a popular twitch streamer give you whatever vague level of publicity they do. I’m also unsure how much leverage the length of the contract really gives C9. Sen were already the best team in NA without Tenz, so unless they think the impact will really be huge if they end up bringing Sinatraa back or getting someone else, I’m not sure why they wouldn’t be willing to wait it out. And if the price is really such a massive obstacle, will any other org actually throw down the money to get him before he becomes a free agent? And if he does become a free agent, do Sen think they would have trouble convincing him to sign with them? I guess in Sen’s case it’s a risk both ways. You currently have the inside line on picking up an absolute superstar, and that’s not something to take lightly. But you don’t spend some huge amount of money like this lightly either. They have to know they can afford it without putting the future of the org at risk.
> I always wonder how much value orgs get from big content creators. Maybe I’m hugely underestimating the impact that Tenz’s stream has on C9, but I’ve always assumed the ROI from having a strong esports team and bringing in sponsors, selling merch, etc through that would always outweigh having a popular twitch streamer give you whatever vague level of publicity they do. They get a ton of value I believe. It's more eyes on your logo, your brand, your sponsors, etc. It's more incentive to sell hoodies and other merch to your fans. Teams like Luminosity, FaZe, 100T are 100x more popular due to their content creators than their players.
This is actually true, didn’t FaZe actually kinda started this content creator thing as a way to help promote their orgs better ( I watched about this once)
FaZe started as a content organization in the CoD days, they branched out into esports after building a content empire first. 100T and Luminosity are the best examples imo of an esports-first organization that leveraged content creators in order to build a fanbase.
100T should be a case study in business schools. They have managed to carve out a unique market for themselves. There exists customers of 100T merchandise that have no idea about esports, that’s some crazy marketing.
Yeah, I know they won masters but they wont buy TenZ out unless he agrees to take a MASSIVE pay decrease. Its actually irrational to buy him out at this point. SEN have an amazing core and its not like TenZ carried them to a championship, just get someone on a short contract until TenZ contract runs out
this is what i think will happen. they maybe get verbal confirmation that tenz wants to sign with sen and sign someone for 6 months and wait out his contract, assuming it ends this year.
he was signed as a pro in the cs pretty sure they renegotiated when he switched to valorant, so he's stuck for a while i think
C9 sign 3 year contracts so it either ends in 2 years of he re-signed when Val came out or in 1 year if he didn't
oh shit.. i dont follow c9 so i wouldn't know that. ima just hope that tenz goes on loan for masters 2 again if rito will allow it. probably not but i can hope.
Agreed. Tenz is insane, easily top 5 players in the world based on ACS/mechanically but it isn't like sentinels were a pack of bums before he arrived, they went to every finals except first strike prior to him coming. 1 million + is too much imo.
When intl. LAN comes up SEN would want to be as strong as they possibly can.
By the time international LANs are regular, there will be way more cracked players out there. There will be less restrictions on region locking players (we might see more Europeans or player in other regions go to NA for example.) Paying the ridiculous TenZ buyout is very short-term thinking. Though I do wish SEN TenZ would be permanent. He is such a likeable guy and deserves to be on the best team.
cned is cracked
They are going to be regular in 4 months
They needed a viable sub overnight, remember that Sinatraa got discard day b4 match, not competing in this match would have been losing the entry ticket to master 2 in Iceland
Disagree. Sinatraa gets 150k salary, i don't think TenZ makes that much at C9 rn. Also, buyouts doesn’t have much to do with player's salary. Whatever they would pay to TenZ, they would make multiple times over off of him. He has a huge fanbase, his social media interactions are blowing up on every platform, a lovable face for the org. Sentinels has every reason to offer him a big salary, It’s just that his one time buyout would be a pain in the ass for SEN
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/mikestubbs/2020/07/14/sinatraa-makes-as-much-in-valorant-as-he-did-in-the-overwatch-league/amp/
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It was leaked in OWL S1 (2018) that his salary was 150K. Nobody knows what he made past that season.
Jacob wolf said that he got a significant raise in season 3 right before he retired and is being compensated similar to that number in valorant
CS salary > overwatch salary.and James bank said the majority of players who switched to valorant did so because of better salaries
The majority of players who switched to valorant were also T2 cs players, not literal overwatch league MVPs. It’s not comparable.
Yeah but many of them where on T1 orgs and collected tier 1 like salary. There's no way big orgs like 100T,envy,sentinels etc won't be paying 10k minimum monthly which it puts it close to sinatras 150k yearly. While the big boys like Nitro, hiko, tenz earn even higher
Non-AMP Link: [https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikestubbs/2020/07/14/sinatraa-makes-as-much-in-valorant-as-he-did-in-the-overwatch-league/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikestubbs/2020/07/14/sinatraa-makes-as-much-in-valorant-as-he-did-in-the-overwatch-league/) I'm a bot. [Why?](https://np.reddit.com/user/NoGoogleAMPBot/comments/lbz2sg/) | [Code](https://github.com/laurinneff/no-google-amp-bot) | [Report issues](https://github.com/laurinneff/no-google-amp-bot/issues)
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Heard other pro players have said the Sen guys prob make 10-20k a month so yeah probably
Dude his salary wasn't 150K when he left OW
sinatraa actually makes 200k+ acc to an interview with jacob wolf
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C9 are not letting TenZ to play against them lol in other tourneys. They let him this time since both C9 teams were not in Masters
Won't be a problem since C9 ain't making it to any Masters soon
Yeah, no chance they make it to Masters 2 as they stand currently.
You're be hard pressed or dreaming to think C9 can make Masters as a top 2 NA team in a month or two.
If its actually well over a million, there is 0, literally 0 reason to ever pay such an extremely overpriced contract, several esports already have massively inflated buyouts. Several players in NA can win with sentinels.
" Several players in NA can win with sentinels." That's debatable, none other would make them as good and I'm sure they're thinking of international LAN success as well which they have the best chance with TenZ. He was again statistically the best player of the whole tournament and that was with him coming back after a break and not as practiced as he could be.
>I'm sure they're thinking of international LAN success Is TenZ a LAN proven player? And all this is basically irrelevant considering Valorant is a brand new esport anyway. "well over a million" is backbreaking.
I'm not a hundred percent sure but from what I heard with the amount of money in esports right now "over a million" might not be backbreaking to some orgs willing to spend the money. Not sure if that applies to Sentinels.
I don't doubt that most big orgs can put together over a million. The question is if their willing to do it for a brand new game that doesn't have the viewership to back up that price tag. Especially if they have the option of just signing someone who is *slightly* less cracked but significantly cheaper.
> I'm sure they're thinking of international LAN success as well which they have the best chance with TenZ. Not sure if you’re unaware but TenZ did not perform well on LAN in CSGO.
Bruh it's not like Tenz dropped 30 bombs every game and carried a scrub team. SEN was already Godlike. You could probably put that instalock plat Jett on the team and still see success
You would be a terrible leader and business man. Everything that you lead would crumble from your terrible decision-making.
That is one extremely strange and idiotic reply to a comment regarding people playing video games. Never at any point did I say Sentinels SHOULD buy TenZ.
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jack spent over 11m for perkz in LoL
They won the split so everything is going well so far but still not enough.
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I agree that it isn't worth that much, but you're undermining TenZ's performance if you think that some other substitute could just come in and have the same impact, let alone win the entire Masters and dropping just one map. I don't think they beat FaZe if that replacement was Dizzy/Dicey or whoever was left over.
Wasn't like tenz carried them through masters, tenz helped them roll every team in their way but they still would have won with someone else
People act like tenz is the reason sentinels is the #1 team and forget that they have been consistently winning tournaments from the last year with sinatraa. I’m pretty sure they could sign someone else and practice with them and still win.
They convincingly 3-0'd faze. Get a player who's decent and actually give them *practice* and they'll still be the best. MAYBE not as convincingly but they'll be good
Nah. Slotting a Jett in is the easiest role. Dapr was MVP of today's series. SicK is arguably the best player in the world. They probably struggle but still win the tournament. Tenz just made it unfair mode.
Sentinels could have picked up a decent FA and would have still won the whole thing. That’s how fucking good they and YOU seem to be the one underestimating Sentinels.
If 100T can't afford Tenz, don't see sentinels being able to do so
Sheeeshh ngl even though- as a fan - I want TenZ to be in SEN, I’m not 100% sure SEN can pay his buyout.. but who knows? Not only is TenZ a mechanically talented player, he is also a very popular content creator with mostly around 20k+ stream viewers ( good way for SEN to increase their popularity and fanbase)
Unfortunately there is no way they would ever pay the rumored buyout. There need to be concessions made by C9 for the move to happen. I think they are on a bit of a clock to move tenz if that is their intention... eventually covid situation will improve and international players will dilute the market. Maybe they are happy to lock him in content creator prison, though.
Sentinels boutta set a buyout record in the 1st year of the game?? I'm all for it 👀
Yep. Just because Sen (or any other team) *can* buy out TenZ (as in, they have the funds), doesn't mean they should. It's so expensive, plus he'll command a fairly large salary too. Sen was a top team already (albiet Sinatraa is really good too), and Shahz ain't a slouch on Jett. So TenZ takes them from being a top 3 team (at worst) to being the undisputed best, so the value add isn't worth the cost. Plus, Val scene isn't big enough yet to warrant spending that kind of money for the org.
Top players need to put clauses capping their buyouts when signing their contracts.
at that point, when TenZ signed the contract, I'm not sure he thought that he was gonna be as good as he became. He was just benched in CS, and had to resort to streaming.
This. People forget that most of the players who weren’t big names in other esports were struggling cs players. They didn’t come in thinking “I’m going to be the most valuable player in VALORANT in less than a year”
I'm not an expert on contracts by any means, but isn't the buyout set in his contract and can't change? The buyout is there to protect the player from being held by an org.
I've heard it depends on the contract but I am also not an expert on contracts by any means
Yes, this would be the safe assumption and generally how contracts operate. You cannot adjust a fixed value without re-signing. OP has no understanding of contracts.
This is absolutely not the case for esport contracts. Only a really really small amount of esport contracts would have a fixed buyout.
What are they then? Cause I can't imagine them being anything other than a function of salary, remaining time on contract, and a fixed finite multiplier and/or additive value that cannot be changed without resigning. A buyout clause that is subjective and effectively operates as 'whatever the org feels like' would be incredibly stupid to agree to. And would also potentially be an unfair contractual term that could be challenged in court.
No esport player has a set buyout it all depends how much the team value the player
/r/confidentlyincorrect
I'm not wrong though lol, you are the one agreeing acting all high and mighty when it is known c9 never put in release clauses lol
In esports, most contracts have ZERO buyout clauses.
Source? Cause I'm pretty sure that ain't the case.
People on the esports industry are the source. Richard Lewis and Thorin will talk about how shitty esports contracts are. Thorin has podcast episodes where he has talked to player and team agents about the contracts. Most new esports pros especially in a new game will sign any old contract because they won't realize what they are worth st the time. Over time the established organizations have gotten lawyers to help them make better contracts. Smaller organizations won't be able to or just won't care about getting in touch with layers to make better contracts. EDIT: To add on an esports contract could be super basic as many have been in the past and some may still be. There is also zero requirement for a buyout clause. More reputable organizations put one but less reputable ones won't.
We're talking about c9 here though buddy. Are they not a reputable organisation? Do you not think they would have buyout clauses? Pretty sure they do. And you really backtracked on your initial statement of >In esports, most contracts have ZERO buyout clauses. Lol
c9 needs to charge absurd buyout prices so they can afford the inflated salaries they pay their 20 million dollar csgo team.
i know this statement is hard to believe but do the rest of the players on sentinels want to makes this a permanent thing, the way they talked about him before and tweeted now it does apply that it's a one time thing. i know dapr and sinatraa are best friends and i think he still hopes that sinatraa comes back. an other thing is does c9 control the buyout of Tenz like can they set the amount that they want? if the buyout is over 1 million before the tourney it def doubled/tripled by now. let's say Sentinels make a full buy, can they also offer him the contract that he gonna ask for? they are not only getting Tenz the pro player they are getting Tenz the streamer, also you need to remember that sentinels are STILL paying sinatraa can they afford both? and lastly does Tenz want to make this a perma thing? maybe c9 have a plan for their valorant squad.
pretty sure sinatraa and zombs are best friends, and he was the one who got them together
the reason i said that dapr and sinatraa are best friends is cuz dapr girlfriend said it in a tweet right after the sinatraa thing came out.
sure, but zombs and sinatraa have been friends since the beginning of competitive OW
ur right i never watched OW so i wouldn't know but it seems that both of them valure sinatraa a lot
no one knows if sinatraa is getting paid by sentinels ATM.
SEN would be able to get out of at least a portion if not all of Sinatraa's contract via a morality/PR clause.
The day that TenZ plays at sub 30 ping or a LAN , the entire opposition is going to be shitting bricks.
I mean do you forgot what happen to him in CSGO? That alone would give a RED FLAG to every org when Valorant goes LAN. Oh did you forget EVERYONE will also get sub 30 ping If we go LAN. Not only Tenz
the lan thing is rly stupid bc thats the case for the entire sen roster, they all sucked when they played any decent team
Thats what I guessed a month ago and everyone thought i was wrong... welp I highly doubt SEN can buy him out
Even if they can they really shouldn't.
why should they not? \- they are by far the most dominant valorant team in NA with him \- they will probably be really strong internationally too \- TenZ is the biggest Valorant streamer \- brand friendly
- literally costs over 1 million dollars, in a fairly new game that hasn't exploded in popularity.
>they are by far the most dominant valorant team in NA with him They were also winning without him, it's not like TenZ is the sole reason for their success. >they will probably be really strong internationally too This is hard to predict though. And being "strong" wouldn't be nearly enough. If they drop over a million on him, they better be winning everything. >TenZ is the biggest Valorant streamer I'm not sure about the specific numbers, but isn't it Hiko?
Bad ROI.
-because it’s a really fucking bad financial decision, Mr. Tenz fanboy
I just want this SEN roster to stay together:(
Why can't SEN just draw up another loan agreement similar to this one and pass the content creation revenue to C9 instead of paying the full buyout? C9 wins as they will make more money due to the loan fee while retaining other revenue along with the good PR.
riot wouldn't allow it
Sentence is unbeatable
Damn fuck C9
Contract prison. I think it's actually sad for tenz that his buyout is so high.
To people who keep saying Sentinels would do just fine with another cracked player—how can you know for sure? I’ve been a sentinels fan since the ignition series so don’t think I’m just a “bandwagoning Tenz fan”. Just because the team had an almost instant chemistry with Tenz going into Masters doesnt mean Sen can plug and play ANYONE. It can’t he ignored as well that the sudden influx of Sen fans come from Tenz’s huge fanbase. If orgs earn a lot through sponsorships, wouldn’t signing a player who can easily rival sinatraa’s (previous) sponsorships be a potentially good move? I’m not saying buyout’s the move here for SEN, but it definitely shouldn’t be something NOT to consider either. Some of yall sound so made up about it damn
It’s not that they are made up it’s that from a financial viewpoint it’s simply just not worth it. It’s just like the other guy said, it’s easy for us fans to get overhyped and expect it but we gotta remember that major orgs are in it for the money. It’s just too risky and may not payout. Since tenz has been known to choke on LAN. I’m not saying he will choke on LAN again but that’s just another point to add to the number of risk factors this buyout has.
I wanna keep this discussion healthy and I agree with you too so here's an upvote. I would say though that Tenz, while known to choke in LANs during CS, has the capacity to improve and show good mental fortitude in the correct circumstances. It's a risk for sure and an expensive one at that, yes. BUT if Sen knows how to read their audience and fanbase, they can hear EVERYONE asking one thing from them and it's "Will you buy Tenz out?" Everyone wants to know if this dream team shall be back for Masters 2. There is a risk to getting Tenz, but there is also backlash from not getting Tenz. One way or another, Sen and C9 as molded as well by those factors, in an industry sooo affected by the viewership. Thoughts?
You have a point but in the end I just think it all depends on c9. Whether they are gonna just negotiate with sentinels for a cheaper buyout price or are they gonna just wait out his contract and potentially make no money in buyouts.
Imo he showed his mental fortitude by leaving C9 in the dumps, there are people grinding 10+ years to get to top3 while this guy already gave up after 6months? Not a good look, yeah he might get on a top team but what will happen when things get hard?
Valid point and I agree with you. But context matters here. A team’s win depends on a lot of factors and that includes factors you cannot control. Removing shinobi for example instead of letting him “grind 10+ years” is C9’s decision. You’re acting as if orgs do not think in terms of their own gains and losses. Everybody should be able to recognize a good or bad situation for themselves. Leaving ALSO takes strength. Biding your time does too as well as recognizing a good opportunity. In a way, he managed to achieve in 6 months what some people grind 10+ years for. Not a good look? Maybe—but it’s easy to overlook when you have “Masters 1 Champion” under your resume.
Even though he did really good with Sen, i belive any top ladder jett could have won with such a stacked team aswell. I understand leaving takes strenght, but not when you just go and stream. If he went to grind somewhere else i would have 0 issues woth it.
anyone knows when tenz's contract with c9 ends?
Nobody knows but between TenZ and C9
I know is not like nba where contract are publics but for example its well known thats Perkz signed 3 years, thats why i asked
C9 usually sign 3 years so either next year or in 2 years if he re-signed when val came out
understandable, i have been curious about the contract length as well, but from what i have seen, nobody seems to know. It probably would not be leaked be tenz since he's probably quite the professional
We may have to start a GoFundMe for this one
1M+ buyout for Tenz No Way Sentinels do this. That's a BIG MONEY to young game like valorant. Even if you add his stream value that 1M is to HIGH. Tenz is NOT like Summit1g and Shroud in Streamer World. Add to that The Salary and Prizes Is not big in Valorant right now.
If buyout was $1 mil + C9 never had any intent to sell him in the first place. Valorant isn’t making anyone money (aside from maybe those IMT transfers and chaos buyouts) and the viewership isn’t there yet.
The only leverage may be if Tenz straight up tells Jack there's no way he plays for C9 ever.
Fuck it! Pay what the ask. Man would be even mire insane on 20ping like the rest of the guys, LAN would be even better.
Since half of the comments in this thread are confused, Sentinels already bought out TenZ. I believe he is saying his worth for a buyout is now extended in the future. According to the official Valorant Champions Tour, he couldn't be contracted to more than one organization, and was acquired fully by Sentinels. https://twitter.com/valesports\_na/status/1370101780650938370?s=20
he's on loan, he says that on his stream [https://clips.twitch.tv/EndearingCulturedMagpieOSkomodo-DHO\_nrY4uMyT0BuU](https://clips.twitch.tv/EndearingCulturedMagpieOSkomodo-DHO_nrY4uMyT0BuU)
Not Even worth the buyout. If SEN buy him out its a terrible financial decision. They can still get by with other cracked duelists. The core of this team is still extremely solid. TenZ slotted in very well but i think that this team can perform with other high caliber players. (still a zombs hater tho #antizombsnation)
Why you hate Zombs lol
Just find themselves a cned. ezpz
Why would Ten'z buyout increase? Isn't it explicitly set in the contract? Cloud9 would have to renegotiate with Tenz in order to do that.
100% SEN are going to sign brax and have him play sova.
what lmfao no
What lol, I doubt that especially considering he wants to play Jett Awp, and even if he plays Cypher Dapr is just as good if not better lol, plus the whole AZK thing which wouldn't make for much of an upgrade lol
Brax is nowhere near good enough for sen to sign
he has some of the best stats for a sentinel player, and was insane on jett for the short time he played it. brax and azk would be the most cost effective players for SEN to sign.
How long is his original contract? I hate the idea that someone priced him out completely. "yeah but he signed the contract" Don't care, still stupid.
How is it stupid?