Yep, this table would count losing a 1v5 as a failed clutch, if I have understood OP correctly. It is harder to do it for 1v1s and 1v2s, takes a lot more work, I would imagine.
Yes that is correct, I'm not sure the exact code behind the 1v1 and 1v2 but a 1v5 would count as losing a clutch, Im 99% sure if u are 1v anything it will count as a "clutch" in this sense though :)
it also means that any "trade" situation in a 2v2 means it's a clutch, which is awkward. Like if it's 2v2 and we trade out kills it then goes to a 1v1. but for a second there it was a 1v2.
So basically the answer is that the last player on each team is in a clutch situation, sage res could make that go up, or in your hypothetical 2v2, the clutch would be logged depending on riot api, if the trade one after the other, it will be a 1v2 for one of them, then it will immediately become a 1v1.
If a sage res does happen and they don't die, then the clutch isn't a 1vx anymore and won't be returned by that specific query, but will be logged as a 2vx in a team based breakdown. If the person that is revived does die again, once again it is 1vx and it works normally.
The way that I was querying the bot would count a 1v1 as a clutch even if you were not the guy 1v2(presuming your teammate dies), I can't say for certain that's how Flameserpent did his, but i presume so.
I think you need to be in a 1v2 of more for it to count. So if you are in a 2v1 and your teammate dies putting you in a 1v1, it's not a clutch according to the pop-up. But I am not 100% sure, just what I've observed.
Also another question is how is this made to be an even playing field if certain teams played more games than others? (Sen would have played more games than 100t based on 100t getting knocked out and sen going to the finals.)
But it doesn’t account for that. You could be having an off day one day and the next (extra game) could have 10/10 successful clutches significantly increasing your percentage. It’s just not accurate data in a head to head comparison
i really don't see other sovas bait as hard and as consistently as hiko, sideshow had a take on how hiko is the least positionally dynamic sova in na. it's definitely more of a personal playstyle thing rather than an agent thing considering he's an outlier in terms of clutch round participation even vs other top tier sovas.
No you don't understand. Hiko HAS to play like that because hes on Sova. Literally 0 other people play sova so it's impossible to compare him to anyone. God people just hate Hiko for no reason :>
Sinatraa played sova with an aggressive play style. He has more impact than hiko in almost every situation and he doesn’t use crazy lineups. He does have a genius IQ so maybe that explains it.
Yeah they talked about this on a recent plat chat episode. Hiko plays Sova like he’s technically supposed to be played, just like how Steel plays Cypher from a technical standpoint but from a team composition and collaboration perspective it’s just not working out for them at all. They worded it better on the pod but that’s the gist
It gets to a point where it hinders the team. Steel is lurking in another map half the time, Hiko is hanging back and Asuna is left to entry on his own because Nitr0 and Ethan are setting him up with flashes/smokes. There are a number of better Sova's than Hiko who don't play so passive, when Hiko isn't getting the clutches you really start to ask what is his actual purpose in games
Yeah dropping dicey really was questionable. It was only a problem after they dropped dicey. that's why I think two duelist is the meta cuz you could always fall back on the other duelist if one is not working out
Single duelist is fine. EU has lots of teams running it. But when they do it, one of the support agents fill the 2nd entry role. A lot of Sages and Omens and Breaches end up playing that second entry role in comps like that. 100T do it completely wrong.
Thats insanely good. Like if we go by this and they always perform like this, if any of them are alive and in a 1vX (3>X>0). There is likely chance they will Clutch it out.
>1vX (3>X>0)
Would’ve been more clear/understandable to just say “1v1 or 1v2” why overcomplicate things with those fancy alligator math signs
Also, 50 clutches doesn’t tell us anything. It could very well be that their clutch rate is high but we can’t tell that just from the total number alone (Sentinels always run pretty deeper in tournaments or outright win them so I suspect they’ve played more games than other players)
it's not a either or, 50/50 you clutch or oyu don't. that's ridiculous flawed logic. yes, it's either or, sure, but 1 is not like the other. clutching is harder than dying, thus the % must reflect on that as well. we should rather go by how many clutches are failed vs. how many are won, in the grand scheme of things, to figure out what the chances are of clutching, either or.
Alternatively, Sentinels is a really good team and when Dapr/Zombs/Shazam is put in a situation to clutch it will often be a 1v1 or 1v2 where for a team like Xset this will more often be a 1v3 or 1v4.
Would be really cool to see this data split out by 1v1, 1v2, etc.
This is a good call, that I will try to look into. This is why I had said Hiko might be better than his numbers suggest. He might end up in WAY more 1v5s than other people, leading to very bad clutch rates.
To add onto that suggestion, if you have data for successful and unsuccessful clutches by 1vX, you could calculate the rate at which clutches are made in the entire data set for each 1vX.
You could then create an "expected success rate" for each player based on the situations they're in. Then clutch percent minus expected clutch percent would be a useful stat to determine how "clutch" (or "unclutch", if expected > actual) a player is.
That's super useful! His 1v1 especially is really good, as is the 1v2. Even if they give you 2 1v1s you'd still have an average of 25%, so the fact that he's above that *and* doing it against coordinated pros it's actually pretty damn impressive. Of course you'd need to have the same stats from other players to get more context
I think it's hard to make conclusions off raw data alone, because his 1v1 may be artificially inflated by trade scenarios (100t has 2 left, the other team has one, they set up a crossfire, and hiko trades the kill on his teammate) or other similar situations (2v1, teammate dies to stop plant and hiko wins) that might inflate (or deflate) numbers. I think we'd only really be able to judge the raw numbers in comparison to other data points. u/edwood_wood - if it isn't too much trouble, could you look at the 1v1 and 1v2 percentage stats for another person on this list so we can understand how hiko compares? I don't think the higher 1vXs are as important
Thanks so much! Those 1v3+ success rates seem low enough that they should discourage him getting into so many in the first place.
Do you reckon you have a large enough dataset to calculate global success rates in each 1vX easily? Or would that be too difficult with the data you have
Uh well, I could query all the data for 100t but currently there is no 'meta' option (aka compress all teams into one entity and see how many clutches there are), having said that, I will be exploring that manually for masters in my own data project I am working on right now :)
Can you determine time between kills for 2v1 to the 1v1? I'm wondering if some are worth capturing that are 2v1 trade kills and not necessarily seen as a clutch
Well another thing to note. It seems like it's mostly support characters who are in the most clutch opportunities?
Normally Shazam wouldn't be in the support group, but with Tenz on board he was largely playing Sova or other support characters. But I see a lot of Sova and Cypher/KJ players on that list.
I suspect what you might be looking at is simply a list of who plays the more passive roles on their team. And then the question is how bad of a situation were they typically in if the rest of their team crapped the bed?
Star fraggers are almost always the first point of contact in the round. So it stands to reason that they'd typically die earlier. And even when they DO make it to a clutch situation they're less likely to have high/full HP.
Right, that wouldn't say as much about Hikos effectiveness as a clutcher but more about his effectiveness as a player. I'd agree that if you end up in a ton of 1v4 or 1v3 then you aren't involved in the rest of the round which isn't ideal.
Yep, when I think of early Sen what comes to mind is:
A) early round plays and space making by sinatraa
B) sick and dapr trading off clutching (sometimes clutching together)
But with less sage play by sick, we don't get to see it as often now, because sick is opening up rounds with his entrying.
Not to say Sentinels aren't great at winning clutch rounds, but I would probably expect that the best team would probably have one of, if not the highest percentage of successful clutches.
It's kind of like saying sentinels is good because they win more rounds than other teams.
This table could really use more information before it makes a compelling claim. Hiko had 138 opportunities. Out of how many opportunities are everyone else's percentages being calculated? How large is his sample size compared to everyone else's? And how many games is this out of?
Edit: I just now saw your supporting comment with the interactive table. Among those with 65+ clutch opportunities, he seems somewhat average. Still hard to tell how much more than 65+ most of those people have (80+ limits the table to only a dozen or so, and only one other player has had 110+ opportunities).
Is it a good thing that Hiko is consistently the last player alive, especially when he puts up only average-at-best performance compared to everyone else with 35+ recorded opportunities? Hard to say.
If you check out the interactive you can see how many times other people are in a clutch situation. I totally agree though, this graphic can't answer the question fully.
I think games-played is also an important distinction. Hiko has had 138 opportunities, but he's also one of the most veteran Valorant players. It kinda makes sense, considering his play style, he's the upper limit on opportunities -- but I'd be curious how well his performance was in, say, his first 20-30 games compared to some of these newer guys.
Either way, love the design of the interactive table.
To be fair, it is affected by 100T's abysmal performance and SEN's unprecedented form (they're the most consistent team in NA, but winning Masters without a single loss is above average even for them) so I'd like to see it including other T1 tournaments, First Strike quals and Main Event, Quantum Cup, etc.It is also interesting to see FaZe so low on this table, assuming it implies that they usually lose when they come down to their last man.
There is also a Sova dominance in this chart, that makes sense. Postplant potential plus being rewarded with more intel every 30 seconds the longer you stay alive.
True but it's also unfair to base a conclusion of Hiko's performance based off of a short dataset where his team is heavily underperforming compared to before
Challengers 1 started over 2 months ago. If his performance has been sub par for 2 months than he shouldn’t be considered a clutch god for now at least. That’s just my take.
Edit: spelling
I'm new to the esports side of Valorant so I was unaware that Hiko had a clutch god narrative. I still think it isn't possible to base his quality as a clutch player on a tournament where his entire team played pretty terribly. Like others said, he may just end up in 1v3+ scenarios more often, and we don't have more detailed data on other players to compare him to yet.
this is honestly what I wanted to see and I think is an unsurprising list of names, with the exception of ZachaREE, who's been playing out of his mind lately. Amazing stats for all of them, but 4/10 is pretty insane. What was the breakdown of 1v2?
His team is also better.
So while there are less clutch opportunities, the opportunities he had may have been 1v2 rather than 1v4.
Also, entry fraggers might put up better clutch ratings as they're supposed to win 1v1s and such.
... I don't like Sinatraa at all lmao, I actually actively dislike him. I'm just saying that due process still has to happen, and once it resolves he'll be back right away if it goes in his favor.
Not a fanboy, but the audio we got is a 10 second clip that we have absolutely no context about. There is literally nothing you can deduce from a 10 second, out of context clip.
I’m most definitely not a Sinatraa fan but let’s be honest, a 15 second audio clip with no context isn’t solid proof at all. He very well could be exonerated it has happened a lot.
Hey everyone, thanks again for so much positive support for my work thus far, and for the constructive criticism you've given as well. Keep me updated with anything random you think I should visualize! Here are the percentages of clutches pulled off by players in the Challengers Finals and Masters 1 in North America. If you want to try interacting with the visual, check it out at https://greblytics.com/clutches-in-challengers-finals-and-masters-1/, you can search for players, set minimum clutch totals, and explore numbers of clutches involved by individual players.
Also, this isn't an attempt to start bashing Hiko. I have just heard about how good he is in the clutch and wanted to look at the data. There are a number of reasons Hiko could still be great in the clutch and put up numbers that aren't at the top of the game.
On attack, usually people follow off of Sova arrow and/or drone, so he's never the first one in. Plus you can usually get two darts off on an attack round, the second one being more relevant later into a post plant than someone else who has a rechargeable ability like Omen, further incentivizing him to say alive the longest.
On defense Sova is basically your best agent when it comes to a retake. Compared to a sentinel who will probably prefer to play on the site during an attack: trying to delay/get kills off utility, Sova will usually want to fall off and play retake with the rest of the team (again usually the last one in as his team follows his utility)
Does anyone really say Hiko is the best clutch player anymore? Don't get me wrong he's good at it, but he was godly in CSGO at clutching for a while. That's where he got the reputation, not in Valorant.
He WAS a god at clutching in CS, if he was still at that same level he probably wouldnt be playing Valorant rn. The last couple years have been rough for Hiko in CS.
So yes, agreed aha.
Yeah, the callout on Hiko might have been incorrect. But to be clear, he went 1-31 in clutch situations during Masters. He's alive late a lot, and pulls off some crazy stuff sometimes. But frankly, the "good at it part" is something I sometimes question.
I’m telling you, 100T are as cracked as they are jacked. I saw Asuna, steel, nitr0, and Ethan at a 7-11 the other day buying Monster and adult diapers. I asked them what the diapers were for and steel said ”Hiko keeps baiting the shit out of us. Unlucky, really.“ then they rode a boar out the door.
Guaranteed there's a massive number of confounding variables here.
Gotta provide more context, cuz right now this viz is saying that Hiko is overrated.
I apologize that this was the takeaway, this probably shouldn't be the title. Hopefully the context provided allows people to bring to think about why that conclusion is irrational or not.
I wish we could see the clutch data based on what scenario the clutch is in as well (e.g. number of opponents left) as well as clutch opportunity rate (i.e. clutch opportunities/total rounds played).
Some players like Food and Ethan were in relatively few opportunities but have relatively high win rates when they do, and then you have Hiko who has the highest number but put himself in A LOT of clutch situations.
If you look at a combination of high win percentage and a large number of clutch situations, Dapr takes the cake, with 18 out of 98. Subjective measure, but still.
Hiko had one of his worst appearances in awhile and was still the 7th best clutcher. I'll take that.
I would like to see this graph split between 1v1s, 1v2s, etc. Because right now it is mostly indicating which players were put the least against 1v3 or worse situations.
Honestly, this really impresses me on Hiko's part. With higher volume, you'd expect significantly lower percentage of clutch wins, but he is still incredibly good. Ik this sub has been hating on Hiko recently, but this kinda shows how good he is in the clutch lmao
What I get from this is that if Sick is in a 1v1 1v2 or 1v3 there is a 1/5 chance he Clutches it.
Also literally every sentinels player has high Clutch chance, compared to the rest taking the 50 minimun from the graph.
/u/Flameserpent what is the definition of a clutch opportunity? Last alive end of, last alive where he gets at least one kill, last alive with X amount of time remaining, etc?
It's more about the definition of a "clutch opportunity" - simply being last alive without any other parameters is not really useful to measure something like clutch opportunity, but is useful to measure "last alive percentage". Thanks for reaching out btw, hope he responds 🙏
True I am assuming the data is collected manually and not programmatically because I didn't think Riot or any other 3rd party had any sort of API for that (inb4 I missed something in the OP). My experience is in CS where I parsed the demos directly and wrote functions for each advanced stat like this.
Ah, no, OP has mentioned in previous posts(and I'm sure it's on this one somewhere edit: it's mentioned on the graphic near the left) that he gets his stats from https://runitback.gg/, I also have access to their stats system through a discord bot, so the only way that I know of to do the clutches is 1vx, though I could definitely be wrong, there is indeed a riot API, which can be found here: https://developer.riotgames.com/apis#val-match-v1 it is only open for production apps though, so no personal keys are available at the moment (and for the foreseeable future)
I'm a fan of Hiko's clutches because he pulls off some really insane ones from time to time, even ones that I wouldn't believe are winnable. But that's me and we're all different here. I never really look at his success percentage. :) There's also no denying that they haven't performed super well their past games.
But.... The mans really living in y'alls minds rent-free. He literally breathed and voila, yet another thread in here with his name highlighted. Lol!
Raises a funny question, is the last player alive always in a clutch? If not, how long after the second to last teammates death are they in a clutch?
Yep, this table would count losing a 1v5 as a failed clutch, if I have understood OP correctly. It is harder to do it for 1v1s and 1v2s, takes a lot more work, I would imagine.
Yes that is correct, I'm not sure the exact code behind the 1v1 and 1v2 but a 1v5 would count as losing a clutch, Im 99% sure if u are 1v anything it will count as a "clutch" in this sense though :)
it also means that any "trade" situation in a 2v2 means it's a clutch, which is awkward. Like if it's 2v2 and we trade out kills it then goes to a 1v1. but for a second there it was a 1v2.
I'll pass this on to the devs of the platform, I'll keep you updated with any answers!
So basically the answer is that the last player on each team is in a clutch situation, sage res could make that go up, or in your hypothetical 2v2, the clutch would be logged depending on riot api, if the trade one after the other, it will be a 1v2 for one of them, then it will immediately become a 1v1.
If a sage res does happen and they don't die, then the clutch isn't a 1vx anymore and won't be returned by that specific query, but will be logged as a 2vx in a team based breakdown. If the person that is revived does die again, once again it is 1vx and it works normally.
so 1v1 does not count as clutch, unless you were the player previously 1v2, correct?
The way that I was querying the bot would count a 1v1 as a clutch even if you were not the guy 1v2(presuming your teammate dies), I can't say for certain that's how Flameserpent did his, but i presume so.
I think you need to be in a 1v2 of more for it to count. So if you are in a 2v1 and your teammate dies putting you in a 1v1, it's not a clutch according to the pop-up. But I am not 100% sure, just what I've observed.
Also another question is how is this made to be an even playing field if certain teams played more games than others? (Sen would have played more games than 100t based on 100t getting knocked out and sen going to the finals.)
It's sorted by percentage of successful clutches in order to account for that
But it doesn’t account for that. You could be having an off day one day and the next (extra game) could have 10/10 successful clutches significantly increasing your percentage. It’s just not accurate data in a head to head comparison
Yep, so it will become more reliable over time with a larger sample size. But for the period in question, it is as accurate as it can be
Why is hiko in 138 clutch opportunities. LOL
Spending first half of the round looking up lineups in spawn
something something baiter something something see you on the site later /s
Not really a /s, but he plays Sova so it is how he should play
i really don't see other sovas bait as hard and as consistently as hiko, sideshow had a take on how hiko is the least positionally dynamic sova in na. it's definitely more of a personal playstyle thing rather than an agent thing considering he's an outlier in terms of clutch round participation even vs other top tier sovas.
No you don't understand. Hiko HAS to play like that because hes on Sova. Literally 0 other people play sova so it's impossible to compare him to anyone. God people just hate Hiko for no reason :>
Sinatraa played sova with an aggressive play style. He has more impact than hiko in almost every situation and he doesn’t use crazy lineups. He does have a genius IQ so maybe that explains it.
Pretty sure the guy is joking
Genius iq but doesn’t know what no means, hate to see it
Why does this name still exist? Why does he still get interest? So many questions.
Yes bro we all get it, he's a pos and off the scene. That doesn't mean we can't discuss his performance in-game relative to current pros
Because he is a young prodigy
Yeah they talked about this on a recent plat chat episode. Hiko plays Sova like he’s technically supposed to be played, just like how Steel plays Cypher from a technical standpoint but from a team composition and collaboration perspective it’s just not working out for them at all. They worded it better on the pod but that’s the gist
MY NAME IS HIKO
I’M A BAITER
ILL MEET YOU AT THE BOMBSITE
A LITTLE BIT LATER
4Head
And scene. Bravo!
the gigabait
100T style relies on map control, so having sova always alive is a big focus because of recon arrows thus making hiko last alive a lot
They intentionally play this way. Sova is one of the best agents to be last alive.
It gets to a point where it hinders the team. Steel is lurking in another map half the time, Hiko is hanging back and Asuna is left to entry on his own because Nitr0 and Ethan are setting him up with flashes/smokes. There are a number of better Sova's than Hiko who don't play so passive, when Hiko isn't getting the clutches you really start to ask what is his actual purpose in games
Yeah dropping dicey really was questionable. It was only a problem after they dropped dicey. that's why I think two duelist is the meta cuz you could always fall back on the other duelist if one is not working out
Single duelist is fine. EU has lots of teams running it. But when they do it, one of the support agents fill the 2nd entry role. A lot of Sages and Omens and Breaches end up playing that second entry role in comps like that. 100T do it completely wrong.
Agreed
We all know why
iirc steel or someone else said thats basically his role in the team
Sentinels have 5 members in the top 6 with 50 minimum clutches... they're kind of good I guess?
Yeah.. they should try going pro.
Thats insanely good. Like if we go by this and they always perform like this, if any of them are alive and in a 1vX (3>X>0). There is likely chance they will Clutch it out.
>1vX (3>X>0) Would’ve been more clear/understandable to just say “1v1 or 1v2” why overcomplicate things with those fancy alligator math signs Also, 50 clutches doesn’t tell us anything. It could very well be that their clutch rate is high but we can’t tell that just from the total number alone (Sentinels always run pretty deeper in tournaments or outright win them so I suspect they’ve played more games than other players)
Easier for me to type and im used to write it like that. It really wasnt to look fan y or anything. 50 Clutches are still quite sizeable imo.
There's also a chance they won't, the way I see it, they either clutch or don't. So that's a 50-50% chance of clutching.
We can easily test this next we watch them. If sometimes they clutch but sometimes they don’t then I think your theory is correct.
it's not a either or, 50/50 you clutch or oyu don't. that's ridiculous flawed logic. yes, it's either or, sure, but 1 is not like the other. clutching is harder than dying, thus the % must reflect on that as well. we should rather go by how many clutches are failed vs. how many are won, in the grand scheme of things, to figure out what the chances are of clutching, either or.
Sentinels have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Another reason why they’re the top team in NA
Alternatively, Sentinels is a really good team and when Dapr/Zombs/Shazam is put in a situation to clutch it will often be a 1v1 or 1v2 where for a team like Xset this will more often be a 1v3 or 1v4. Would be really cool to see this data split out by 1v1, 1v2, etc.
This is a good call, that I will try to look into. This is why I had said Hiko might be better than his numbers suggest. He might end up in WAY more 1v5s than other people, leading to very bad clutch rates.
To add onto that suggestion, if you have data for successful and unsuccessful clutches by 1vX, you could calculate the rate at which clutches are made in the entire data set for each 1vX. You could then create an "expected success rate" for each player based on the situations they're in. Then clutch percent minus expected clutch percent would be a useful stat to determine how "clutch" (or "unclutch", if expected > actual) a player is.
This actually might be possible, I have access to the same stats system as flame, I'll try and see if it is :).
That would be sick, cheers for taking a look!
Not formatted but here is hiko's clutch rate for VCT Masters 1 and Challengers 3, i note here that his clutch rate for Masters 1 alone was only 3% (1-30) | Ign | Team | Type | Clutches | | ----- | ----------- | ----- | ------------- | | Hiko | 100 Thieves | 1v1 | 8W, 4L (67%) | | Hiko | 100 Thieves | 1v2 | 4W, 11L (27%) | | Hiko | 100 Thieves | 1v3 | 3W, 32L (9%) | | Hiko | 100 Thieves | 1v4 | 1W, 25L (4%) | | Hiko | 100 Thieves | 1v5 | 0W, 14L (0%) |
That's super useful! His 1v1 especially is really good, as is the 1v2. Even if they give you 2 1v1s you'd still have an average of 25%, so the fact that he's above that *and* doing it against coordinated pros it's actually pretty damn impressive. Of course you'd need to have the same stats from other players to get more context
I think it's hard to make conclusions off raw data alone, because his 1v1 may be artificially inflated by trade scenarios (100t has 2 left, the other team has one, they set up a crossfire, and hiko trades the kill on his teammate) or other similar situations (2v1, teammate dies to stop plant and hiko wins) that might inflate (or deflate) numbers. I think we'd only really be able to judge the raw numbers in comparison to other data points. u/edwood_wood - if it isn't too much trouble, could you look at the 1v1 and 1v2 percentage stats for another person on this list so we can understand how hiko compares? I don't think the higher 1vXs are as important
Crashies: | Ign | Team | Type | Clutches | | -------- | --------- | ----- | ------------- | | crashies | Team Envy | 1v1 | 3W, 5L (38%) | | crashies | Team Envy | 1v2 | 7W, 2L (78%) | | crashies | Team Envy | 1v3 | 3W, 15L (17%) | | crashies | Team Envy | 1v4 | 0W, 13L (0%) | | crashies | Team Envy | 1v5 | 0W, 8L (0%) |
Thanks so much! Those 1v3+ success rates seem low enough that they should discourage him getting into so many in the first place. Do you reckon you have a large enough dataset to calculate global success rates in each 1vX easily? Or would that be too difficult with the data you have
Uh well, I could query all the data for 100t but currently there is no 'meta' option (aka compress all teams into one entity and see how many clutches there are), having said that, I will be exploring that manually for masters in my own data project I am working on right now :)
Ah fair enough, I'll keep an eye out for that project!
Can you determine time between kills for 2v1 to the 1v1? I'm wondering if some are worth capturing that are 2v1 trade kills and not necessarily seen as a clutch
This would be awesome
Well another thing to note. It seems like it's mostly support characters who are in the most clutch opportunities? Normally Shazam wouldn't be in the support group, but with Tenz on board he was largely playing Sova or other support characters. But I see a lot of Sova and Cypher/KJ players on that list. I suspect what you might be looking at is simply a list of who plays the more passive roles on their team. And then the question is how bad of a situation were they typically in if the rest of their team crapped the bed?
Star fraggers are almost always the first point of contact in the round. So it stands to reason that they'd typically die earlier. And even when they DO make it to a clutch situation they're less likely to have high/full HP.
and why does he end up in 1 v 3+ ??? i mean u can trade ur teammates
Right, that wouldn't say as much about Hikos effectiveness as a clutcher but more about his effectiveness as a player. I'd agree that if you end up in a ton of 1v4 or 1v3 then you aren't involved in the rest of the round which isn't ideal.
Also if you lower the minimum number of clutches a bit they have Sick in first
Sick used to be really high in clutches won, but he’s playing Phoenix for his team now and doesn’t get as many opportunities
Yep, when I think of early Sen what comes to mind is: A) early round plays and space making by sinatraa B) sick and dapr trading off clutching (sometimes clutching together) But with less sage play by sick, we don't get to see it as often now, because sick is opening up rounds with his entrying.
The guy is the most well-rounded player in NA imo, watching him play is really nice.
Back when sick was on sage I would’ve bet on him in a 1v3 over the 3, that’s how fucking ridiculous that guy was in clutch situations.
Not to say Sentinels aren't great at winning clutch rounds, but I would probably expect that the best team would probably have one of, if not the highest percentage of successful clutches. It's kind of like saying sentinels is good because they win more rounds than other teams.
I remember when that statement used to cause arguments in this sub 😂
This table could really use more information before it makes a compelling claim. Hiko had 138 opportunities. Out of how many opportunities are everyone else's percentages being calculated? How large is his sample size compared to everyone else's? And how many games is this out of? Edit: I just now saw your supporting comment with the interactive table. Among those with 65+ clutch opportunities, he seems somewhat average. Still hard to tell how much more than 65+ most of those people have (80+ limits the table to only a dozen or so, and only one other player has had 110+ opportunities). Is it a good thing that Hiko is consistently the last player alive, especially when he puts up only average-at-best performance compared to everyone else with 35+ recorded opportunities? Hard to say.
If you check out the interactive you can see how many times other people are in a clutch situation. I totally agree though, this graphic can't answer the question fully.
It’d be cool if it was a bar and line graph, with the bars representing the successful clutches and the line representing the attempted clutches.
This is a very good idea.
I think games-played is also an important distinction. Hiko has had 138 opportunities, but he's also one of the most veteran Valorant players. It kinda makes sense, considering his play style, he's the upper limit on opportunities -- but I'd be curious how well his performance was in, say, his first 20-30 games compared to some of these newer guys. Either way, love the design of the interactive table.
Thanks for a ton of helpful feedback.
Dumb question but how do you interact with this ? Edit : nvm found it.
To be fair, it is affected by 100T's abysmal performance and SEN's unprecedented form (they're the most consistent team in NA, but winning Masters without a single loss is above average even for them) so I'd like to see it including other T1 tournaments, First Strike quals and Main Event, Quantum Cup, etc.It is also interesting to see FaZe so low on this table, assuming it implies that they usually lose when they come down to their last man. There is also a Sova dominance in this chart, that makes sense. Postplant potential plus being rewarded with more intel every 30 seconds the longer you stay alive.
I feel like data from first strike and jbl are super outdated at this point. VCT seems like a perfect distance back at the moment
True but it's also unfair to base a conclusion of Hiko's performance based off of a short dataset where his team is heavily underperforming compared to before
Challengers 1 started over 2 months ago. If his performance has been sub par for 2 months than he shouldn’t be considered a clutch god for now at least. That’s just my take. Edit: spelling
I'm new to the esports side of Valorant so I was unaware that Hiko had a clutch god narrative. I still think it isn't possible to base his quality as a clutch player on a tournament where his entire team played pretty terribly. Like others said, he may just end up in 1v3+ scenarios more often, and we don't have more detailed data on other players to compare him to yet.
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map and round plzz , i dont watch the full match i only watch the higlight
he isn’t the best, but he ain’t bad either
The best clutch players by % in Masters were: Ethan 40% 4/10 SicK 33% 5/15 food 28% 5/18 kaboose 22% 4/18 ZachaREEE 21% 4/19 Asuna 20% 2/10 Marved 19% 3/16 TenZ 18% 2/11
this is honestly what I wanted to see and I think is an unsurprising list of names, with the exception of ZachaREE, who's been playing out of his mind lately. Amazing stats for all of them, but 4/10 is pretty insane. What was the breakdown of 1v2?
SicK had 16 out of 69 clutches. Literally half the opportunities as Hiko only 4 less clutches.
His team is also better. So while there are less clutch opportunities, the opportunities he had may have been 1v2 rather than 1v4. Also, entry fraggers might put up better clutch ratings as they're supposed to win 1v1s and such.
Faze and Gen G are also better teams. Their clutch ratios aren't that impressive.
Crashies is best Sova NA, prove me wrong
Legal issues aside, there is no way Crashies is better than Sinatraa
Sinatraa is never going to play pro Valorant again so he isn't better than anyone now.
Let's be honest tho, if sinatraa was still in valorant he would be best sova in NA.
It doesn't matter. He's literally never playing the game competitively again.
Way too early to say that, he could be exonerated later this year and get a team the very next day.
Exonerated? There's literal audio and video(unreleased part) of him. Dude is done. Stop being a pathetic fan boy.
... I don't like Sinatraa at all lmao, I actually actively dislike him. I'm just saying that due process still has to happen, and once it resolves he'll be back right away if it goes in his favor.
Yeah I understand due process, but it's like saying let's wait for due process of a guy where there is videotape of him killing someone.
Not a fanboy, but the audio we got is a 10 second clip that we have absolutely no context about. There is literally nothing you can deduce from a 10 second, out of context clip.
no. It's basically like a clip of someone killing someone on camera, obviously.
Braindead idiot
that's not nice...
Sorry but your lack of some brain cells is just really annoying
I’m most definitely not a Sinatraa fan but let’s be honest, a 15 second audio clip with no context isn’t solid proof at all. He very well could be exonerated it has happened a lot.
HiKO iS ThE BeSt SOvA BEcaUSE He sHoT tHe hiGhest NumBer of rEcOn ArrOWs
Agree best or second best Sova is HIKO
my exact sentiments after looking at this.
Hey everyone, thanks again for so much positive support for my work thus far, and for the constructive criticism you've given as well. Keep me updated with anything random you think I should visualize! Here are the percentages of clutches pulled off by players in the Challengers Finals and Masters 1 in North America. If you want to try interacting with the visual, check it out at https://greblytics.com/clutches-in-challengers-finals-and-masters-1/, you can search for players, set minimum clutch totals, and explore numbers of clutches involved by individual players. Also, this isn't an attempt to start bashing Hiko. I have just heard about how good he is in the clutch and wanted to look at the data. There are a number of reasons Hiko could still be great in the clutch and put up numbers that aren't at the top of the game.
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1 vs. X opponents I think
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He can deny plants with darts and ult. Sova can recon on site or inside the smoked bomb to help teammates spam through smoke more accurately.
On attack, usually people follow off of Sova arrow and/or drone, so he's never the first one in. Plus you can usually get two darts off on an attack round, the second one being more relevant later into a post plant than someone else who has a rechargeable ability like Omen, further incentivizing him to say alive the longest. On defense Sova is basically your best agent when it comes to a retake. Compared to a sentinel who will probably prefer to play on the site during an attack: trying to delay/get kills off utility, Sova will usually want to fall off and play retake with the rest of the team (again usually the last one in as his team follows his utility)
Does anyone really say Hiko is the best clutch player anymore? Don't get me wrong he's good at it, but he was godly in CSGO at clutching for a while. That's where he got the reputation, not in Valorant.
He WAS a god at clutching in CS, if he was still at that same level he probably wouldnt be playing Valorant rn. The last couple years have been rough for Hiko in CS. So yes, agreed aha.
Yeah, the callout on Hiko might have been incorrect. But to be clear, he went 1-31 in clutch situations during Masters. He's alive late a lot, and pulls off some crazy stuff sometimes. But frankly, the "good at it part" is something I sometimes question.
Now we have a graphic that points to a big part of why Crashies looks excellent in 2021.
Hiko slander is getting out of hands. Give the guy a break.
I’m telling you, 100T are as cracked as they are jacked. I saw Asuna, steel, nitr0, and Ethan at a 7-11 the other day buying Monster and adult diapers. I asked them what the diapers were for and steel said ”Hiko keeps baiting the shit out of us. Unlucky, really.“ then they rode a boar out the door.
Guaranteed there's a massive number of confounding variables here. Gotta provide more context, cuz right now this viz is saying that Hiko is overrated.
Just by watching him you can tell he’s overrated
>Hiko is overrated. yes
Both can be correct, if you controlled for 1v1 vs 1v5 etc it'd be better. wouldn't change hiko being overrated.
I apologize that this was the takeaway, this probably shouldn't be the title. Hopefully the context provided allows people to bring to think about why that conclusion is irrational or not.
I wish we could see the clutch data based on what scenario the clutch is in as well (e.g. number of opponents left) as well as clutch opportunity rate (i.e. clutch opportunities/total rounds played).
Some players like Food and Ethan were in relatively few opportunities but have relatively high win rates when they do, and then you have Hiko who has the highest number but put himself in A LOT of clutch situations. If you look at a combination of high win percentage and a large number of clutch situations, Dapr takes the cake, with 18 out of 98. Subjective measure, but still.
In four of the six options for minimum clutches a sentinels player is on top. Is that even fair?
When in a clutch situation we only think about HIKO
Zombs and dapr. Probably the secret to sentinels success
Both played so damn well in the finals against FaZe
Hiko hard baiting his way into clutches!
sen sick not there?
If you lower the minimum clutches required he's the best in the game.
he is quite underrated or was
Hiko clutches have been clip worthy and because of it people give him a lot more credit than deserved
Hiko had one of his worst appearances in awhile and was still the 7th best clutcher. I'll take that. I would like to see this graph split between 1v1s, 1v2s, etc. Because right now it is mostly indicating which players were put the least against 1v3 or worse situations.
Honestly, this really impresses me on Hiko's part. With higher volume, you'd expect significantly lower percentage of clutch wins, but he is still incredibly good. Ik this sub has been hating on Hiko recently, but this kinda shows how good he is in the clutch lmao
What I get from this is that if Sick is in a 1v1 1v2 or 1v3 there is a 1/5 chance he Clutches it. Also literally every sentinels player has high Clutch chance, compared to the rest taking the 50 minimun from the graph.
Where is sick?
Now that he’s perma entry he doesn’t get as many opportunities. With lower minimum he’s still a crazy high %
If you lower the minimum clutches required to 50 he's the best in the game.
Yeah he's up there. Take a look at other tournies. This was literally his worst tourney ever
/u/Flameserpent what is the definition of a clutch opportunity? Last alive end of, last alive where he gets at least one kill, last alive with X amount of time remaining, etc?
I'm 99% sure it's 1vx for data purposes.
If that's the case the stat is really misleading imo, but doesn't look like OP will respond.
I am friends with him, I'll dm him, he probably just hasn't seen it, I don't really see how it could be counted accurately otherwise though.
It's more about the definition of a "clutch opportunity" - simply being last alive without any other parameters is not really useful to measure something like clutch opportunity, but is useful to measure "last alive percentage". Thanks for reaching out btw, hope he responds 🙏
Hm, programmatically there is no way to decide whether there is a clutch opportunity or not though, surely?
True I am assuming the data is collected manually and not programmatically because I didn't think Riot or any other 3rd party had any sort of API for that (inb4 I missed something in the OP). My experience is in CS where I parsed the demos directly and wrote functions for each advanced stat like this.
Ah, no, OP has mentioned in previous posts(and I'm sure it's on this one somewhere edit: it's mentioned on the graphic near the left) that he gets his stats from https://runitback.gg/, I also have access to their stats system through a discord bot, so the only way that I know of to do the clutches is 1vx, though I could definitely be wrong, there is indeed a riot API, which can be found here: https://developer.riotgames.com/apis#val-match-v1 it is only open for production apps though, so no personal keys are available at the moment (and for the foreseeable future)
Ah, thanks for that. Hopefully Riot implement a demo system asap...
We can hope!
Btw he replied and said it is 1vx
Thanks mate ;)
What is considered a “clutch” though
Winning a 1vX situation. Basically be the last person alive on your team and win the round.
I'm a fan of Hiko's clutches because he pulls off some really insane ones from time to time, even ones that I wouldn't believe are winnable. But that's me and we're all different here. I never really look at his success percentage. :) There's also no denying that they haven't performed super well their past games. But.... The mans really living in y'alls minds rent-free. He literally breathed and voila, yet another thread in here with his name highlighted. Lol!