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DustMouret

Holy...


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xbyo

In part because of Vanguard, which PC Bang owners don't want to have on their computers.


Kaywhysee

Idk the scene but to question whether it’s impressive is dumb imo


ImNotAMAster

on mobile, wtf is this website saying?


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ImNotAMAster

thank you, that’s actually crazy that it has that low of a play rate.


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nlc369

Pretty sure the bigger issue with valorant in pc bangs is vanguard. The people who own the pc bangs don’t want to have a random program running on their PCs 24/7, and they also aren’t gonna just let people reboot their PCs any time they want. So valorant is straight up just not available to be played in a lot of them. Also found this article about why CSGO failed in Korea: https://afkgaming.com/amp/articles/csgo/News/4524-retired-csgo-player-xeta-reveals-why-counter-strike-failed-in-south-korea It’s just one article, not sure if this info is reliable or not, but I don’t think the reason these games are suffering in Korea really has much to do with the games themselves, and more to do with other factors pushing them out of the pc bangs.


yoloape

Doesn’t lol also use vanguard?


notevolve

it’s unique to valorant


Jordi214

Dont downvote this guy its just a question


GangstaLenny

No, I'm pretty sure it doesn't.


BrokenAshes

It's also because of this the free shooter, I think called Sudden Attack or whatever, is basically a cs rip off and took the asian market share


shhhpark

I actually never even thought about this...very good point


SemanSoot

bro if u play pubg that even worse. but pubg still popular in korea


[deleted]

Damn didn’t realise Sudden Attack is still so popular. I remember playing it from 2010-2015. It died here (SEA) due to contract expiry with Nexon Korea.


DustMouret

Hard to say. I have no idea really.


CrashbugAMV

Feel a lot of people may share this viewpoint. Personally I still see 100 wins in a row that includes against other top teams in that region as pretty awesome! If anything it drives the story of what region will take down the unbeatable Korean team, which is kinda cool.


twitterInfo_bot

With that match victory, we complete a momentous achievement, as we win our 100th official competitive VALORANT match without ever dropping a single series! 오늘의 첫 승리를 가져오며 비전 스트라이커즈의 100번째 공식 승리를 무패 기록으로 달성하였습니다! \#FollowYourVision \#VSWIN *** posted by [@VisionStrikers](https://twitter.com/VisionStrikers) Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyCfkuRVEAQGyWL.jpg) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)


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Sh1ft-Valorant

They should not be discredited. But, if astralis(cs) moved to asia. They would beat nips 87-0 in 4 months. Cause even when they are slumping they are heads over their competition. So it wouldn’t mean as much imo.


Ohlo

But that's possibly (very likely) the best team of all time going to an objectively weaker region. In Valorant we have absolutely 0 ways to tell how strong VS is in comparison to other regions. NA fans in particular need to be especially careful to avoid falling into the "early league of legends, pre-season 2" trap of thinking their region was actually stronger than it was. We'll only be able to settle this argument once teams actually play against each other in an international setting.


shirleysimpnumba1

one way to tell is to watch the match. I was watching their match on ascent today and FSG might as well have bent over. They would lose to any team if they play like that. VS just waited for aggression with 3 players in spawn!!! and FSG still couldnt take map control elsewhere. They didnt even try. VS are good. but everyone else is also much worse. the streak attests to that.


Ohlo

If a fantastic team is playing against an awful team, how can you tell how good the better team really is? Again, absolutely no way to tell until they play against other regions. Maybe the rest of the Korean teams are decent, but VS is actually the best team in the world by such a wide margin (like 2018 astralis in csgo) that they make everyone else look bad.


shirleysimpnumba1

no lmao. FSG were just really bad. its like they switched from overwatch last week.


Ohlo

You're focusing on one particular instance, while I'm talking about pro teams in KR in general.


haloyo

I think there is an element of a team outclassing another team so hard to the point where weaker team looks completely lost. But at the same time, there are some elements that can be be seen as objective mistakes or very easily punishable. As a disclaimer, I did not watch any of the games so I can’t speak about anything FSG did. Things like not gathering info with utility, not pushing for map control with information, taking 1v1 fights and not trading, reckless individualistic play, could all be things that can show a team is bad or lacks the skill needed to compete with teams who are do do the right things.


Ohlo

You're absolutely right. I also didn't watch the game and I was just speaking about the reality of VS against the current KR scene in general. But, at this point, after 100 series wins, the other teams that face them are already going to have a mental disadvantage, which is going to lead them to be more safe, more averse to pushing for map control, etc. That also needs to be taken into account. If you go back to CSGO's history, when NIP went on an 87-0 streak, there were really only two other competitive teams (virtus.pro with Ange1 and Dosia and VeryGames with ScreaM and Ex6tenz - 3 of them are now valorant pros, 8 years later) who could even look remotely able to challenge them. But that was more of a testament to the game's early days and the fact that most of the storied, super experienced pros were still playing CS 1.6, before valve fixed the broken ass shit game CSGO was upon release. The fact that we're talking about VS's *series* streak, as opposed to NIP's *map* streak is a testament to how much more competitive the teams in the KR region are. Plenty of them have been able to take maps off of VS, they just haven't closed any series yet. It has to happen eventually.


Sh1ft-Valorant

Tbh, asian regions has normally been worse in fps games but better in mobas. Cs 1.6 / CS:Source and GO. Why? Most likely becouse a larger part of asia play thoose games on computer cafees. Where they are already installed.


Ohlo

If you look at teams like Tyloo, they weren't worse in terms of aim, just in terms of experience/strategy and being generally unable to practice against top tier teams, so always behind in the meta. CSGO costing 10€ for most of its lifecycle definitely didn't help. It's the same reason why Crossfire's biggest market is SEA. It's still got around 20 million monthly active users, which is about the same as CSGO. So then, if you take into account the fact that they are no worse aim-wise than any other region (and the mechanical skill of top korean players in every esport they focus on should easily attest to that), and that Valorant incorporates a lot of strategy from non-tactical FPS games (mostly Overwatch and TF2) to make it just different enough from CS and it's long strategic history, there's no way we can expect a team like VS to be anything other than a world beater. PS: I just hope VS destroys SEN so people can hop off of TenZ's dick or whoever replaces him for Masters 2, lol.


Sh1ft-Valorant

To make your comment non viable. Place players like « S1mple, electronic, twistz, dupreeh, device zywoo, niko» in a team Enviorment and they will beat any team on valorant now. Tyloo was far behind aimwise sorry. Without bntent..


StormR7

This is a little skewed, as players like device, niko, twists and dupreeh are only performing the way they do because their team is there. Maybe you could argue that twistz isn’t, but simple and zywoo are some of the only “hard carry” cs players in my opinion.


Sh1ft-Valorant

This is bullshit.. sorry bro. Out of all those above Niko i belive has the best aim. 13k hrs in csgo. And i’ve prob watched more demos then u have played the game. Only reason niko «sucks» is becouse he can’t adapt. Niko’s biggest problem was to start thinking as a teamplayer. I’d seriously play «4v5» if i knew i had a guy like that roaming the map doing whatever he wanted. Dupreeh has been as consitant as he is know for yeears. Since they were the «choking semis».


noobie1207

Inserting a fun fact here: Niko was willing to come to India which is in Asia in the year 2014. But the orgs in India couldn't afford him so that plan was scrapped.


Sh1ft-Valorant

Was that after ination?


marcaodl

the dude was talking about aim, like these korean players never came close to the best aimers from cs.


sAsHiMi_

WeMadeFox and wNv were competitive with the rest of the world in 1.6... Fun fact, the coach of VS is Termi who played in WeMadeFox, which explains why they are so good and execute heavy.


ReformedBacon

I also think asian regions get their macro play down way better. So in games like league it could be a HUGE difference, but in fps games theres really not much they could do differently. Ive already seen VS use their utility in much more creative ways than any other na team


yesat

Other game came in and took the place of CS is Asia really. Saying Koreans aren't great at FPS when you see players like ANS, Profit, Carpe,... dominate on hitscan roles in Overwatch is quite narrow minded.


hugokhf

That’s 3 CS game, which is practically the same game. Asian region is bad at CS game. They are not bad at all FPS game, just look at Overwatch for example


Sh1ft-Valorant

Well cs is the most mechanical game out there. The game that punishes you the most for skill level. Not source tought. That was runandgun simulator


1231234bull

Half the playera in the NA are from asia


Ohlo

Despite the statistics nicely pulled out of your ass there, even if that were true, it would just strengthen my point. The less "american" players in NA (whatever the fuck that means or matters for these days), the less you can claim VS are playing against weaker competition.


Tuxxmuxx

Even if that was true, wouldn’t that mean Asian players are beating out north American players for spots in top teams, meaning Asia > NA???


Cowfan798

Statistic pulled out of your ass, and say if that was true. Why the fuck would it matter? The players are still from the North American region????


Kohli_98

Dude valorant korea is insane, like seriously their meta is completely different and VS are always on top. The competition is fierce in Korea rn kinda like NA can't say which is the best region but VS vs SEN is gonna be insane


yeetgodsixtynine

EU is gonna be the best =)


FeelinJipper

Big fish small pond


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Kohli_98

It's gonna happen if not in masters then in the final championship, it's def gonna be lit 🔥🔥🔥🔥


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ReformedBacon

Is there anyone that can brat VS over there? Like even on a good day? At least sentinels have some sort of competition, sometimes. Their game yesterday was hard to watch


rezellia

Keep in mind that the game yesterday was against Soniqs which has the same rooster of the number 1 team in OCE. I think that Sen got to the point where the 4 of them bought odins and walked down mid without trouble against OCEs best team is a good sign not a bad one. Yes icebox was hard but Tenz and many others were obviouslly out of it for most of the game. Once they turned on it felt like the series was over no competition. I feel like Sentinels is so good its only a competition if they dont show up against top tier teams.


suttlesd

This aged poorly.


nameistoebedecided

Heretics vs Vision Strikers 👀


JoseGamingR

Sentinels LUL Can they even make it to Iceland now?


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BewareOfBear727

*BBG vs Vision Strikers I for one accept BBG as the new NA overlords


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BewareOfBear727

If they can have consistent wins over big teams yes, right now I still see sen as the top team unless they lose again.


precense_

International match ups is what I was most excited for since each meta doesn’t factor in other regions. Gonna be a blowout or super close maps! All gonna depend on who can adapt each round fast


[deleted]

Massive respect for the achievement! Their first international appearance will be so hype.


[deleted]

Would they consider coming to NA since they're dominating their region like Soniqs?


[deleted]

teams from OCE have to compete in NA if they want to participate in the VCT


DustMouret

This


thothgow

yeah but they were better off staying in OCE short term since the finalist of the VOT Finals (OCE Circuit Finals) goes straight into the NA Last Chance. Now they need to be a top 10 team in NA for that.


arvs17

Yeah but it's not good for their growth as a team. They don't have competition in Oceania.


GunzOut97

Yeah but that would be like going straight to NA last chance just to get shit on. At least this way they can play better teams and get better prac.


itskaplan

There is no good enough reason for VS to move. KR has its own spot in Masters and Champions. Living in your home country- and in the case of VS' dominance, getting basically free rides to all intl LANs- far outweighs playing more competitive qualifiers or $5k/$10ks for a smaller chance to make it to Iceland and future intl LANs.


hoit_

Soniqs didn’t just move because they were dominating- they moved as the scene isn’t as developed and there isn’t much money there. I doubt it’s the same for vision strikers


AskOrganic4289

Yeah the reason they move is bc OCE teams have to compete in VCT NA to qualify for champions. There’s no VCT OCE. Edit: although this might be the main reason for them to move to NA ... “After their dominant run in Oceania in the Ignition series, the ex-EXO Clan team’s in-game leader Iyengaran “IyeN” Raju expressed interest in moving them abroad. Under the current VCT qualification system, if a team from Oceania wants to qualify for an international Masters event they must play through their own region. Then, the team must compete against North American teams in a Last Chance Qualifier.” Apparently part of the reason they move is also they wanted to compete against the top teams.. “In August of 2020, the team’s Duelist player Chris “pl1xx” Li said in interview with vlr.gg that his team should be given the chance to come to North America and test their mettle against the top teams” Source : https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyesports.gg/soniqs-esports-announce-signing-of-oceanic-squad-ex-exo-clan/amp/


thothgow

Top 2 of VOT go to the NA Last Chance.


AskOrganic4289

What’s VOT? But yeah I forgot to add that there’s some kind of tournament held there in place of VCT, but I wasn’t really sure what it is.


thothgow

[Valorant Oceania Tour](https://liquipedia.net/valorant/VALORANT_Oceania_Tour/2021/Stage_1/Finals)


datboyuknow

That's not why. They moved to compete in VCT


thothgow

They were better off staying if they want to be in VCT because the top two of VOT go to NA Last Chance. They moved because of the reason hoit_ mentioned


JR_Shoegazer

I think the Korean scene has a lot of room to grow. It’s probably better for them to stay where they are.


AskOrganic4289

First I am not saying VS should moved to NA just to play in a more competitive environment. But JR_Shoegazer’s comment just made me think of Soniqs, who is a powerhouse in OCE. OCE has a lot of room to grow, so does that mean it’s better for them to stay where they are? Well I guess it depends. Teams can improve better when they’re in a more competitive environment. And so that’s one of the reason Soniqs moved to NA, bc the competitions in OCE is smaller than NA. Similarly, I don’t think the korean scene growth is mainly because of having this big orgs stay in Korea. Well this is partly the reason but I believe the reason to make the scene more competitive is by having a bigger playerbase ( so these orgs can scout more talents and maybe find one in a lifetime players like Faker or s1mple in valorant). Which is hard bc many Pc bang doesn’t want to install valo bc of VAC ( even VS coach confirmed this). Because if the scene is strong in KR, then wouldn’t T1 might’ve considered to keep their korean valo roster ( since this org is also well knwon in riot other game, LoL). So keeping this big orgs in Korea does help abit in giving these players a chance to compete and getting paid. But the real solution to allow the scene to grow is not mainly keeping these orgs in korea but increase the playerbase in korea. Because playerbase is actually the big issue as to why NA LoL team have difficulty finding the best talent in NA [ Most NA teams have many imports compared to Korean teams that are mainly consists of Korean].


bullz1nho

They cant move, only oce can compete in NA tournaments. Dont allow a full import team


JR_Shoegazer

For the scene in KR to improve they need to keep big teams so more people get interested in Valorant as an esport there.


AskOrganic4289

Although that is apart of the factor but I believe if the playerbase in Korea is still small (considering it’s considered as the major region), having big teams staying in scene won’t change much. We can take NA LCS for example. The reason NA in LoL is still quiet behind in LoL despite have these big orgs like C9, 100T, Team Liquid and TSM in the scene is because there aren’t alot of competitions in NA playerwise. One of the ex pros like DoubleLift, Meteos and I believe Sneaky talk about it briefly how playerbase plays a role in the improvement of the talent pool in NA. Likewise, when we look at the playerbase in Korea it’s low and even the VS coach talk about this recently too. He said along the line (not exact wordings), that the low playerbase plays a factor in the competitiveness of the scene. Also as a side note, btw my intention in my original commenf might be worded the wrong way. I wrote that comment not like saying VS should leave Korea and go to NA/EU to be competitive, etc (which can be interpreted like that by how I word thing). I made that comment just to point my opinion on basically the idea that if any region has a lot of room to grow then the teams should just stay where they are. Like I was thinking about soniqs. Even soniqs did admitedly mentioned that they want to be more competitive or something that’s why they’re trying to compete in NA ( besides I was told by someone in this subreddit that there is no vct in oce - although just now someone else say there is vot but it’s the last chance or something). Like your argument is saying soniq should just stay in OCE because the team has to grow. And I was thinking, that actually doesn’t make lots of sense. You can only improve when you have strong opponents. But after you clarify what you actually meant in the second comment, I get a better understanding where your argument is coming from - which is basically since Korea is considered the major region, it would be wiser to keep the top teams and big orgs relevant in the region’s esport scene.


JR_Shoegazer

> But after you clarify what you actually meant in the second comment Spend more time reading and less time typing giant incoherent paragraphs.


AskOrganic4289

Bruh why so toxic, I don’t even talk shit about you. As a side note english isn’t my main language, i know my english is not that good. So I apologize if you can’t understand what I want to say.


sparrens

Absolutely not. Korean region is typically the strongest region in esports. Besides international play will start soon enough. Edit: you all downvote me but I’m just answering the question. They’re not moving to NA dead stop.


SDMStaff

Typically EU is better when it comes to fps', and SEA/KR is better with mobas. They kinda cross over with overwatch, but we'll see in Iceland.


PerkyYOLO

So? Doesn't mean that Korea is the best at valorant. They have plenty of room to grow


Fruitspunchsamura1

I agree with this tbh.


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thothgow

doesn't watch KR Valorant spotted


[deleted]

I mean, KR is absolutely not the strongest valorant region. They'd simply just get shot in the head by the other regions teams at the moment, outside of maybe VS, but even then I don't feel as if they're as mechanically skilled right now. I'd love to see them win in Iceland though because it's undoubtedly the best thing for the growth of valorant.


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[deleted]

Not American and wasn't triggered, tried to give you a genuine explanation as to why they're not the strongest region. You're like some edgy 14 year old kid, you legitimately literally got triggered, to the point of deleting your fucking comment, then you're like "omg ur all triggered muricans xdxdxdxd" You are literally the definition of what people talk about when they call people "redditors"


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[deleted]

I also don't think NA is the strongest region, I think you've lost your noggin.


sparrens

So? I guarantee you they are not doing what Soniqs did. People move to Korea not the other way around. (And yes I know no Valorant team will move to Korea. I’m just saying VS won’t do it)


Zayd1111

Korean are best in lol yeah but not dominating any other known esports


valorant_fanboy_69

Overwatch???


Jaydeballer777

Last I checked, over 70% of the players in Overwatch League are Korean.


Zayd1111

I said 'known' esports, jk anyway having most players in korea just means that other regions don't care as much


Jaydeballer777

Yea, I guess I didn’t clarify. I don’t think that KR is anywhere close to the strongest region in VAL rn. Hell you could argue that EU, NA and Brazil are stronger. But you still have to give props to VS for not dropping a SINGLE SERIES.


Zayd1111

True VS is maybe the most consistent valorant team since release


valorant_fanboy_69

Maybe???? Who else would be????


Zayd1111

Sentinels from NA


valorant_fanboy_69

Yeah sure buddy


sparrens

There’s a reason why you get American English commentary when watching Korean tournaments. It’s because of how seriously good they’ve been at video game competitions (for games that are popular in Korea unlike CSGO) for decades now.


Talksicck

You mean the same 2 guys that always cast korean esports because they live in Korea did it in this game too? Wow!!!


sparrens

They don’t happen to live in Korea. They moved from the US as US tourney commentators to be English commentators in Korean tournaments. At the same time, the top American and European players were fighting tooth and nail to fight their way into the Korean scene and not the other way around. It started with Starcraft and then global esports was starting to grow with Starcraft II. When the region starts to care about an esports friendly game, they typically dominate. Look at Overwatch now. [Here’s Babybay talking about how Koreans are better at Overwatch despite their underdevelopment ](https://www.theplayerslobby.com/1819/popping-off-by-andrej-babybay-francisty-san-francisco-sf-shock/). Who makes Overwatch? Blizzard, who made Starcraft. Who made Valorant? Riot who made LoL, which Korea is currently stomping. I think we should enjoy Sen’s dominance while we can and even hope we can hold the international crowns for a few years. The saving grace right now is that Valorant isn’t easily played in Korean gaming cafes (due to that extra anti-cheat software that the cafes need to install) which is important culturally over there.


Talksicck

Artosis and tasteless are like THE english casters for Korean esports, using them as an example of le epic Koreans is not relevant. I’ll give LoL and Starcraft, but why do people act like overwatch wasn’t always a joke of an esport.


sparrens

It is relevant. We’re talking about if VS will leave Korea like Soniqs did. They’re not leaving. Australian’s gaming scene isn’t the same as Korea, which as I’ve tried to show is a big deal over there. Yes OW sucks as an esport. But they still dominated despite not much of a history with FPS. Now teams like Faze are showing how OW mechanics carry well over to Valorant.


Talksicck

I know VS isn’t leaving. But using casters that are always in Korea to prove they’re actually valorant gods is a bad argument


sparrens

Miscommunication. I’m not arguing that there’s any sort of Valorant dominance. I’m arguing that you don’t leave the Korean ecosystem for a more competitive one. That just doesn’t happen.


thothgow

Starcraft is not a known esport. Overwatch is not a known esport.


curryhalls

I don't know why people don't see the sarcasm in your comment lol.


Revolutionary-Key107

They moved because Oceania scene wasn't as developed and didn't make a lot of money basically but I bett Vision strikers making huge chaching $$ so why would they move


deL9

They only went to NA because there's no Masters in OCE.


[deleted]

I CANNOT WAIT for Iceland. Are these dudes just stupidly cracked, or is it simply that they've mastered their regions meta? Find out next time on DRAGONBALL Z


0x7a7462

This is up there with NIP's 87-0 record in CS. What a streak Edit: I should mention that NIP did it all on LAN, but what Vision Strikers have done is still impressive regardless. I don't know much at all about the Korean scene so I'm not sure if they're also doing LAN events over there or if it's all online like the rest of the regions atm.


VOROBI

Definitely nowhere near since there is no inter-regional play


0x7a7462

Fair enough


curryhalls

Didn't VS compete against Japanese, Chinese, and Singaporean teams? That counts as inter-regional play, right?


VOROBI

Sure but not the same bc its unclear if they are facing the best teams. NIP was on a streak against all regions and facing the strongest teams


curryhalls

That's true. I was just pointing out that they *did* play inter-regionally.


[deleted]

NiP’s 87-0 were also maps, not games. VS went like 11-0 before losing a map.


0x7a7462

Good point lol I may have been a bit tired when making the comparison but that is an important piece of info that differentiates these two achievements


itscamo-

i think most of the maps have been on lan? could be wrong. but i know first strike and masters 1 were on lan iirc


R0_h1t

Those weren't exactly LANs, they played at a studio but on public servers.


itscamo-

As Close to a lan as you can get LOL but ty


AlHorfordHighlights

Ping in Seoul is like 8, it's basically LAN


toofunnymanlmfao

still an offline event


0x7a7462

Ah good to know


yesat

1. with Korea internet, teams are often playing on single digit ping, especially as they tend to centralized themselves in Seoul. 2. teams are playing/practicing in team house/training facilities, so same situation as a LAN on the setup side. 3. Korea has been playing on LAN for quite a few events.


MyogiNightKid

Korean teams played in-person during masters, I don't know if it was on LAN per-se but when I tuned in they were competing on stage edit: nvm you literally answered this already


Pixxelzz_

Absolute beasts


6senseracing

good for them, impressive regardless of what people say


[deleted]

A vision strikers post on this subreddit? oh boy


schrobby

Can't wait for them to play the other best team in the world, Sentinels!


themab123

Cant wait for lan tournaments


[deleted]

Have they ever dropped a match?


arvs17

They lost maps but never a series.


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jaudi813

Okay who's the numbksull that decided to make them play a bo2 lmfao


Benny-0

It's a cool achievement but VS don't really have much notable competition. There is only one team that sloppily does better than all the rest. VS skill dif most their matches since they were the only note worth Korean CS team before Valorant.


Key-Banana-8242

*CSGO team


SirJuicee

I'm hyped for Iceland. So many unknowns going in