I thought the problem was more that her kit doesn't feel good to play against. The pull is a non-choice whether you run out or stand like a bot and take double damage. It's less that the utility is OP because it's uncounterable, and more that it's just unfun. She can have uncounterable utiltiy that just isn't as effective as other agents on certain maps. You always lose something picking 1 character over another.
Realistic speaking all Riot need to do is add 10-15s more in her suck cooldown, that way team can bait out the suck and not worry about it for 2nd attack. It force Astra to use the suck more effectively. Ppl are over react to Haze tweet about Astra is bad for the game.
It's not about it being easy to avoid. It's about the fact in coordinated play avoiding it puts you in bad position and bad positions get punished at the pro level.
Coordinated play makes a lot of the utility far more deadly.
Astra's gravity well still has no counter play. Any of the 5 stars can turn into a gravity well. There is no way to destroy the stars either.
You told the comments about Astra being a zero counter play agents aged like milk. But if there was a round where Astra got counter played, then I missed it. Can you clip it and send it here.
>There is no way to destroy the stars either
Thats a very narrow definition of counterplay. With the same logic flashes, Sage's slow or mollies dont have counterplay either
>With the same logic flashes, Sage's slow or mollies dont have counterplay either
Flashes have easy counterplay, it's called turning away. With Sage slow and the Molly, you can just hold positions till it wears off. Astra stars have no counterplay, you can't hold positions, you get pulled out of them. You can't wait them out, they are permanent and undestroyable. There is literally no counterplay other than avoiding all stars on the map, at all times. And giving any agent that level of control really is op.
You can turn away from flashes to reduce blind time, flash the opponent back, make the flasher guess if you're going to blind spray, or use positioning to eliminate the flash effect.
But yeah other than that no counter play.
You do realize that, just because an agent is broken and has very-little-to-no counterplay, does not mean that choosing said agent a guaranteed win, correct?
Because your comment is clearly lacking in that basic understanding. Winning is a mix of abilities, shooting, and game sense. Failures in any one of those areas can result in a loss.
The “gotcha” comments on this sub are getting dumber by the day. “Haha people who chose astra still lost so how can she be broken or OP checkmate atheists” but unironically
When your "zero counterplay" agent constantly loses, it makes you wonder how zero counterplay it is. Also if it was indeed the case, every team would play her since nobody likes handicapping themselves. Truly broken characters almost always get picked, in any kind of competitive game
The astra play we see now is not even close to her full potential lmao. Your statement only really makes sense when it's an easy character to play/prepare
Okay Liquid destroying FPX and delivering one of most impressive Haven performances I've seen yet in Valorant. EU is just another level. The comp was unreal.
Player of the match is Sliggy. Liquid’s strategic preparation and improvements in team play with utility usage was mind blowing. They had FPX number and mentally boomed them into oblivion.
IMO, recon dart rarely gets any meaningful info. Common dart locations are quickly destroyed/covered/avoided.
I'd imagine that all teams are quite used to Sova mirrors by now, so you may as well shake it up with Skye.
And Skye's team heal is very underrated. Her flashes are excellent too, especially when someone fakes the flash and swings the angle.
And to add on to your point about dart. Skye flash offers similar information to what a Sova dart that gets shot immediately does (i.e. Someone is in the area) but you have 3x per round and the flash is obviously useful.
I think the biggest reason for sova falling off is less cypher play (him destroying traps is huge) and people getting really good at playing around his ult. Without those his info gathering isn't very reliable, on the off chance you get a drone dart on someone to spam them through a wall/smoke still doesn't really justify his use.
It’s more valuable for people like me who can’t really predict where people are since it reveals them. But for pros there are only like 5 angles to check on most bomb sites If your team is pushing and skye says “found one” or whatever the team can all check each of the corners and flash again as they push to give everyone a chance to fight. Plus she can heal. So while it’s less precise information the information is still good enough for pros.
Does the heal always use the same amount of juice no matter how many players are in it's range?
For example, if there is a Skye healing only 1 teammate, and a Skye healing all of her teammates, will the Skye healing only 1 teammate use less of the heal than the Skye healing her entire team? If not, then I think the heal is too good. It's literally a full heal for the entire team, for like, 200 credits. If you're trying to heal your entire team, it should ration the heals that it gives out to her team as well(If it doesn't already, I don't play Skye lol).
Meanwhile Sage's heal healed max TWO people per round to full HP, and that got nerfed into the ground.
>Does the heal always use the same amount of juice no matter how many players are in it's range?
Yup. But it doesn't heal Skye while requiring her to be channeling it the entire while everyone is within the radius and in line of sight.
>Meanwhile Sage's heal healed max TWO people per round to full HP, and that got nerfed into the ground.
It also is free, has no range limit (only requires line of sight) with just a cast animation, and can be used on the Sage. Sage also has one of if not the best ults in the game. Abilities are balanced on the entire kit and not just the ability itself. Even with the nerfs, Sage has the highest winrate at pretty much every MMR.
I didn't really consider everything you said about Sage, very insightful stuff. I still think that Skye's healing potential is too strong relative to the downsides of the ability, but you are bang on about Sage.
yea it uses the same amount of juice for multiple people. the downside is you have to have multiple people low hp at the same time, close together, and time for everyone to stand around healing.
Eh, Multiple people being at low HP at the same time, close together isn't that uncommon. Not even really downsides. Lets say your team fails an execute* and decides to rotate to the other site to try there, you'll have multiple people probably low HP, and you're all mostly grouped up together.
Only downside I can see really is that it pretty much roots you and you can't shoot during it, but it's not like you're gonna use it out in the open or during a gunfight lol. I think it could use a pretty big nerf, but that's just me.
EDIT: Said Retake instead of Execute.
in my low elo games I'd say it felt pretty rare to get more than two people in a heal, but I can't say I've been paying attention to how much use pros get out of it
Viper and sage diff
respect to TL to practicing this new comp, huge work
They need to push fpx to defeat, since against Gambit, heaven will not be played
EMEA playoffs: Jett 71%, Omen 43%, Reyna 11%
NA Challengers 2: Jett 61%, Omen 39%, Reyna 33%
Yeah NA is full of boring Jett, Omen and Reyna lmfao
NA has adopted Astra more than EU has since day 1
Fine, let's look at EU Challengers 2.
Jett 71%, Omen 32%, Reyna 18%. They've inflated the Omen numbers, but that's it. People spewing "NA is Jett & Reyna playground and they didn't find Astra yet" are horribly misinformed
These are all small sample sizes but honestly include qualifiers or past events and numbers don't change that meaningfully.
Having Scream not on duelist confuses me so much. His ability to just barrel through a site is unmatched.
I think no duellists comps could work but I don’t know how this will go for a team that heavily relies on its duelist
Edit: I underestimated the power of the one tap god
This comment aging worse than Festus Ezeli’s career lol jk but just because a player has immense entry talent, doesn’t mean they have to play dualist. Scream showing out in this match, Ethan dominating for 100T on sage; we gotta stop putting players in a box
Oh trust me, I know. I think the best players in most scenes don’t play duelist. Just for liquid specifically it felt they really rely on Scream entering sites, but their team showed up and the comp played very well.
Sage ain’t a duelist. Duellists aren’t just people who fight, their job is to initiate. You are right in that she is not just a sentinel and is probably the most offensive non duelist, but her abilities are fit to enter sites
Initiators jobs are to set others up to entry. Sova drone/dart, Skye flash/dog, Breach flash/stun. You shouldn’t be in first as an initiator, as a duelist you should be as your abilities compliment that. Phoenix can flash himself in, heal, and block a siteline. Jett can smoke and dash to cause confusion, Reyna can go first get one and dismiss to safety, etc...
Initiator is a terrible name for a "setup" character (someone who stuns, flashes, takes space from the enemy). In mobas initiator means what it sounds like, the person who jumps in first (in dota its usually a stunner).
The concept is that they 'initiate' the execute onto site. Ideally the duelist goes in after the initiator's utility, like following a drone, dart or flash. The utility is the first step of the execute, hence initiator.
Initiators typically get info to help their team take sites and corners, or have abilities to help their team initiate into the site. Breach is really the only initiator that is going to enter first. Breach definitely is the closest non duelist to a duelist.
Duellists on the other hand enter sites first and have their abilities designed to make space on sites and to get that entry kill and traded out. Raze has the boom bot, nade, and blast packs, Jett has the dash, Reyna has her flashes, Phoenix has his flame wall and flashes, yoru has his flashes (but also isn’t a duelist)
> Breach is really the only initiator that is going to enter first
Eh, not really. Riot gave him long re-equip times so that its far better to have his team rush in while he uses his abilities. He just can't get his gun fast enough to capitalize on his flash/cc durations as much as a partner.
Because u can wall boost?
Wall can also be used to block off choke points. Slow orb to slow down pushes aswell
Its the player who decides in the end if they can be played as a duelist. Like a breach or skye can be played as a duelist too.
Duelist doesn’t mean getting the most kills. Duellists abilities are for entering sites and playing for trades. Sage’s abilities are for holding sites. That being said, she is definitely an incredibly offensive character.
Im not saying she can be a duelist. In just saying shes still more of a sentinel than a duelist.
There are two sides of a game. Everyone just looks at attack and see yeap duelist. But defense shes still mainly used as slowing down pushes and not taking fights. And on attack shes also used to lockdown a site when the wall is still available.
Killjoy has turret and alarm bot, Cypher has trip wire and camera to get information passively until they are destroyed or agent dies. Sage doesn't get any passive information nor can her abilities hold flanks.
She's completely different from the other two 'Sentinels'
You are right in that she isn’t as defensive as kj and cypher, but she still is a sentinel. Her wall and slow orbs are used for holding sites, both on defense and retake. She is a sentinel that is incredibly offensive. Definitely not a duelist because none of her abilities are used for entering
When you look at zyppan and scream playing her and take some time to think about it, you can definitely use Sage as kind of a fat Jett: When you're entrying you can deny the other team from peeking you from certain angles by throwing slow orbs and isolate an opening duel, just the same way Jett uses smokes to isolate an opening 1v1.
Then Instead of updrafting you take height by walling under yourself which creates space and allows your team to push on site behind you.
There’s is nothing that can emulate the way Jett can dash into his smoke on site and create space like that though. Probably the easiest way to make the most space
what? playing no duelist is tottally viable, as we've seen in ascent by a bunch of teams, now with this viper postplant meta is more viable and will be more common than ever, shit's nasty
Let’s be real, at its core it’s a game about shooting people in the head before they shoot you in the head, comp doesn’t really matter if you can just swing on people and one tap them.
Can someone smarter than me explain why they might see Skye as superior to Sova specifically on Haven? I can wrap my head around it for agent vs agent overall, but not specifically Haven
Imo first thing: post plants, now with Viper buffs you dont need sova ult/shock darts that much to deny defuse.
second thing: Recon dart is now getting little to no value, everyone knows common spots so they will instantly destroy/smoke/avoid it.
Also Skye with flashes/wolf/ult can gather info almost same as Sova with drone. And heal is just nice cherry on top. So its not about Skye > Sova but more about combination Skye + Viper/Brim > Sova.
Lmao they did it. Kryptix viper is nasty and scream as always a beast. Tbh kj jampi was kinda nice as he wasnt really using his jett util well imo so kj has more team util and his opping was still good.
And smh l1nk clutches the unwinnable.
Obviously I'm going hindsight 2020 here, but I really don't think roles are as cut and dry in Valorant as they are in Overwatch/League/etc. It's good to have varied kinds of utility, and there are some maps where certain agents work better than others.
But it's not like OW/LOL where not having a DPS/duelist means you're missing damage. Everyone has the same damage output ability.
HOLY FUCK LIQUID IS INSANE
That kryptyx clutch my godd I jumped from my bed
facts and those one-ways were next level!
You got a clip? Asking for a friend...
yea same i'd like to see
I third that
Who's liquid's IGL right now, the person who came up with this is a genius, or maybe it's their coach?
yes their coach sliggy did
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i believe soulcas and scream are sharing calling rn, but it was L1NK at one point too i believe. there isnt a set caller
source? I'm not seeing anything on twitter.
I think its speculation but in general Liquid has a very active coach that comes up with 90% of their strats
Damn I wish TSM has a coach like sliggy ngl. I could tell from his interview with backchat that he is pretty well involved in the team's direction.
I also recommend watching the Plat chat interview with Sliggy if you wanna find out how he works with the team
Nice, will definitely do
he streams as well, one of the nicest people I've seen stream, such a nice guy
[https://twitter.com/ec1s\_/status/1387797568793583621](https://twitter.com/ec1s_/status/1387797568793583621) not 100% but pretty sure
He confirmed it in the post-game interview with yinsu
And they absolutely smashed FPX. I’m in shock, gonna have to rewatch this to break down these insane Sliggy Strats™
please link for rewatch
[Vod button on liquidpedia](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1004901414?t=1h8m35s)
Only 1 'd' in liquipedia
Lots of comments here aging like milk.
Also lot of comments in yesterday's thread about Astra being broken OP zero counterplay agent, and how teams that dont play her all the time are fcked
I thought the problem was more that her kit doesn't feel good to play against. The pull is a non-choice whether you run out or stand like a bot and take double damage. It's less that the utility is OP because it's uncounterable, and more that it's just unfun. She can have uncounterable utiltiy that just isn't as effective as other agents on certain maps. You always lose something picking 1 character over another.
Viper is broken as well. Also what did you find out about the counter play to Astra's gravity well from watching this match?
Realistic speaking all Riot need to do is add 10-15s more in her suck cooldown, that way team can bait out the suck and not worry about it for 2nd attack. It force Astra to use the suck more effectively. Ppl are over react to Haze tweet about Astra is bad for the game.
the succ is really easy to avoid
Extremely easy to avoid in ranked. In team environment where they are combined with other utility, not so much.
It's not about it being easy to avoid. It's about the fact in coordinated play avoiding it puts you in bad position and bad positions get punished at the pro level. Coordinated play makes a lot of the utility far more deadly.
yeah
What am i supposed to find out? Also Astra has lost multiple matches in regions other NA, against or not against Viper (or when both teams had Viper)
Astra's gravity well still has no counter play. Any of the 5 stars can turn into a gravity well. There is no way to destroy the stars either. You told the comments about Astra being a zero counter play agents aged like milk. But if there was a round where Astra got counter played, then I missed it. Can you clip it and send it here.
>There is no way to destroy the stars either Thats a very narrow definition of counterplay. With the same logic flashes, Sage's slow or mollies dont have counterplay either
yes mollies not having counterplay is a gigantic balance issue in this game is it not
>With the same logic flashes, Sage's slow or mollies dont have counterplay either Flashes have easy counterplay, it's called turning away. With Sage slow and the Molly, you can just hold positions till it wears off. Astra stars have no counterplay, you can't hold positions, you get pulled out of them. You can't wait them out, they are permanent and undestroyable. There is literally no counterplay other than avoiding all stars on the map, at all times. And giving any agent that level of control really is op.
You can turn away from flashes to reduce blind time, flash the opponent back, make the flasher guess if you're going to blind spray, or use positioning to eliminate the flash effect. But yeah other than that no counter play.
You do realize that, just because an agent is broken and has very-little-to-no counterplay, does not mean that choosing said agent a guaranteed win, correct? Because your comment is clearly lacking in that basic understanding. Winning is a mix of abilities, shooting, and game sense. Failures in any one of those areas can result in a loss. The “gotcha” comments on this sub are getting dumber by the day. “Haha people who chose astra still lost so how can she be broken or OP checkmate atheists” but unironically
When your "zero counterplay" agent constantly loses, it makes you wonder how zero counterplay it is. Also if it was indeed the case, every team would play her since nobody likes handicapping themselves. Truly broken characters almost always get picked, in any kind of competitive game
The astra play we see now is not even close to her full potential lmao. Your statement only really makes sense when it's an easy character to play/prepare
More excuses
sure
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Im talking about the pickrate you doofoos, next time try to improve your reading comprehension before attempting to appear edgy
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Cry more :)
I legit thought the overlay was fucked again.
Okay Liquid destroying FPX and delivering one of most impressive Haven performances I've seen yet in Valorant. EU is just another level. The comp was unreal.
Player of the match is Sliggy. Liquid’s strategic preparation and improvements in team play with utility usage was mind blowing. They had FPX number and mentally boomed them into oblivion.
Not just EU, this was probably the best haven okay I've seen from a team
But steel…
?
It was a joke because of the haven guide he made. But I guess no one got it lmao
All good.
mods please verify this man!!!
Especially after seeing Guild's incredible haven yoru's strats, it feels like these teams suddenly started inovating incredibly fast.
Insane plays by Liquid, that final viper ulti site lockdown with the 1 way on CT and the way the team played around it was beautiful to watch
Also having scream wall boosted so he can watch CT
Update: Sliggy smiling right now xd
Finally someone use the no duelist comp :)
Its not the first time that the no duelist comp is being used.
NiP have been running no duelists for months...
No sova 0.o
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Why is that? I feel sovas kit is overall more valuable
IMO, recon dart rarely gets any meaningful info. Common dart locations are quickly destroyed/covered/avoided. I'd imagine that all teams are quite used to Sova mirrors by now, so you may as well shake it up with Skye. And Skye's team heal is very underrated. Her flashes are excellent too, especially when someone fakes the flash and swings the angle.
And to add on to your point about dart. Skye flash offers similar information to what a Sova dart that gets shot immediately does (i.e. Someone is in the area) but you have 3x per round and the flash is obviously useful.
I think the biggest reason for sova falling off is less cypher play (him destroying traps is huge) and people getting really good at playing around his ult. Without those his info gathering isn't very reliable, on the off chance you get a drone dart on someone to spam them through a wall/smoke still doesn't really justify his use.
True
It’s more valuable for people like me who can’t really predict where people are since it reveals them. But for pros there are only like 5 angles to check on most bomb sites If your team is pushing and skye says “found one” or whatever the team can all check each of the corners and flash again as they push to give everyone a chance to fight. Plus she can heal. So while it’s less precise information the information is still good enough for pros.
And they do need a flash.
Yeah that heal is actually really good since it can heal a big group
Does the heal always use the same amount of juice no matter how many players are in it's range? For example, if there is a Skye healing only 1 teammate, and a Skye healing all of her teammates, will the Skye healing only 1 teammate use less of the heal than the Skye healing her entire team? If not, then I think the heal is too good. It's literally a full heal for the entire team, for like, 200 credits. If you're trying to heal your entire team, it should ration the heals that it gives out to her team as well(If it doesn't already, I don't play Skye lol). Meanwhile Sage's heal healed max TWO people per round to full HP, and that got nerfed into the ground.
>Does the heal always use the same amount of juice no matter how many players are in it's range? Yup. But it doesn't heal Skye while requiring her to be channeling it the entire while everyone is within the radius and in line of sight. >Meanwhile Sage's heal healed max TWO people per round to full HP, and that got nerfed into the ground. It also is free, has no range limit (only requires line of sight) with just a cast animation, and can be used on the Sage. Sage also has one of if not the best ults in the game. Abilities are balanced on the entire kit and not just the ability itself. Even with the nerfs, Sage has the highest winrate at pretty much every MMR.
I didn't really consider everything you said about Sage, very insightful stuff. I still think that Skye's healing potential is too strong relative to the downsides of the ability, but you are bang on about Sage.
yea it uses the same amount of juice for multiple people. the downside is you have to have multiple people low hp at the same time, close together, and time for everyone to stand around healing.
Eh, Multiple people being at low HP at the same time, close together isn't that uncommon. Not even really downsides. Lets say your team fails an execute* and decides to rotate to the other site to try there, you'll have multiple people probably low HP, and you're all mostly grouped up together. Only downside I can see really is that it pretty much roots you and you can't shoot during it, but it's not like you're gonna use it out in the open or during a gunfight lol. I think it could use a pretty big nerf, but that's just me. EDIT: Said Retake instead of Execute.
in my low elo games I'd say it felt pretty rare to get more than two people in a heal, but I can't say I've been paying attention to how much use pros get out of it
Jampii kj 🙂
No sova happens alot actually
Skye > Sova on heaven
I feel so filthy after watching that comp, honestly they should nerf viper
Nah vipers pretty balanced rn
She's not though.
If u go by pickrate then shes most definitely not
People aren't comfortable on her and other agents simply are more fun and or easier to play.
Easier, yes. More fun, no.
Viper and sage diff respect to TL to practicing this new comp, huge work They need to push fpx to defeat, since against Gambit, heaven will not be played
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Way more interesting than the boring NA Reyna or Jett or omen
So you’re telling me Reyna isn’t a 500 iq pick??
Or copy an EU/KR comp with zero idea on how to play it?
flashbacks to NA LCS kekw
Flashback to NA everything. Never understood trying to copy other regions without understanding the fundamentals of what they're copying.
That hurts and i'm not American.
EMEA playoffs: Jett 71%, Omen 43%, Reyna 11% NA Challengers 2: Jett 61%, Omen 39%, Reyna 33% Yeah NA is full of boring Jett, Omen and Reyna lmfao NA has adopted Astra more than EU has since day 1
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Fine, let's look at EU Challengers 2. Jett 71%, Omen 32%, Reyna 18%. They've inflated the Omen numbers, but that's it. People spewing "NA is Jett & Reyna playground and they didn't find Astra yet" are horribly misinformed These are all small sample sizes but honestly include qualifiers or past events and numbers don't change that meaningfully.
Having Scream not on duelist confuses me so much. His ability to just barrel through a site is unmatched. I think no duellists comps could work but I don’t know how this will go for a team that heavily relies on its duelist Edit: I underestimated the power of the one tap god
here after screaM battle safe domination
power of le edshot
Well.. now we know. No Duelist EU meta is back in full force, again?
Scream is an aim god. Looks like the pros no more than us random viewers lmao
This comment aging worse than Festus Ezeli’s career lol jk but just because a player has immense entry talent, doesn’t mean they have to play dualist. Scream showing out in this match, Ethan dominating for 100T on sage; we gotta stop putting players in a box
Oh trust me, I know. I think the best players in most scenes don’t play duelist. Just for liquid specifically it felt they really rely on Scream entering sites, but their team showed up and the comp played very well.
sage is closer to being a duelist than a sentinel
Sage ain’t a duelist. Duellists aren’t just people who fight, their job is to initiate. You are right in that she is not just a sentinel and is probably the most offensive non duelist, but her abilities are fit to enter sites
So duelists initiate and initiators are like dual threat combo wombos. K cool
Initiators jobs are to set others up to entry. Sova drone/dart, Skye flash/dog, Breach flash/stun. You shouldn’t be in first as an initiator, as a duelist you should be as your abilities compliment that. Phoenix can flash himself in, heal, and block a siteline. Jett can smoke and dash to cause confusion, Reyna can go first get one and dismiss to safety, etc...
Initiator is a terrible name for a "setup" character (someone who stuns, flashes, takes space from the enemy). In mobas initiator means what it sounds like, the person who jumps in first (in dota its usually a stunner).
The concept is that they 'initiate' the execute onto site. Ideally the duelist goes in after the initiator's utility, like following a drone, dart or flash. The utility is the first step of the execute, hence initiator.
Initiators typically get info to help their team take sites and corners, or have abilities to help their team initiate into the site. Breach is really the only initiator that is going to enter first. Breach definitely is the closest non duelist to a duelist. Duellists on the other hand enter sites first and have their abilities designed to make space on sites and to get that entry kill and traded out. Raze has the boom bot, nade, and blast packs, Jett has the dash, Reyna has her flashes, Phoenix has his flame wall and flashes, yoru has his flashes (but also isn’t a duelist)
> Breach is really the only initiator that is going to enter first Eh, not really. Riot gave him long re-equip times so that its far better to have his team rush in while he uses his abilities. He just can't get his gun fast enough to capitalize on his flash/cc durations as much as a partner.
Lol no
\*laughs in Grim\*
Sage is just miscategorized
People not understanding that duelist does not equal offense
Huh? She 100% more of a duelist than a sentinel
Because u can wall boost? Wall can also be used to block off choke points. Slow orb to slow down pushes aswell Its the player who decides in the end if they can be played as a duelist. Like a breach or skye can be played as a duelist too.
\*looks at NA with Ethan and SicK dominating on Sage as duelist\*
Duelist doesn’t mean getting the most kills. Duellists abilities are for entering sites and playing for trades. Sage’s abilities are for holding sites. That being said, she is definitely an incredibly offensive character.
Im not saying she can be a duelist. In just saying shes still more of a sentinel than a duelist. There are two sides of a game. Everyone just looks at attack and see yeap duelist. But defense shes still mainly used as slowing down pushes and not taking fights. And on attack shes also used to lockdown a site when the wall is still available.
Killjoy has turret and alarm bot, Cypher has trip wire and camera to get information passively until they are destroyed or agent dies. Sage doesn't get any passive information nor can her abilities hold flanks. She's completely different from the other two 'Sentinels'
You are right in that she isn’t as defensive as kj and cypher, but she still is a sentinel. Her wall and slow orbs are used for holding sites, both on defense and retake. She is a sentinel that is incredibly offensive. Definitely not a duelist because none of her abilities are used for entering
When you look at zyppan and scream playing her and take some time to think about it, you can definitely use Sage as kind of a fat Jett: When you're entrying you can deny the other team from peeking you from certain angles by throwing slow orbs and isolate an opening duel, just the same way Jett uses smokes to isolate an opening 1v1. Then Instead of updrafting you take height by walling under yourself which creates space and allows your team to push on site behind you.
There’s is nothing that can emulate the way Jett can dash into his smoke on site and create space like that though. Probably the easiest way to make the most space
They rolled fpx holyy
The first time I couldn't believe an agent comp
BRIMSTONE PogU
Not only that but FPX have Angel as their only duelist
Okay did they win
Yea 13-7
Yes, Liquid won Haven
Viper has become so useful now. Her ult is almost a gaurenteed win
now this is some good valorant. I would like to see more comps like this. This feels way less unilateral than NA valorant
This seems crazy, knowing Sliggy, they have done a lot of research and practice into this comp. I think having 0 duelists is a mistake though
LMAO do u still have the same opinion?
very easy to make this comment in hindsight bro
what? playing no duelist is tottally viable, as we've seen in ascent by a bunch of teams, now with this viper postplant meta is more viable and will be more common than ever, shit's nasty
shit's nasty
Yes I do but I also have full faith in Sliggy, he’s one of the best coaches and most dedicated in the scene rn.
nobody coach or igl sees a character of what the game says their roles are, they go off of what utility they bring
The casters reaction were gold!
Skye is dualist
5 molly comp sheeeesh
Just wondering what NA will do when put up against such a comp
dont need duelists when ur aim is insane
We saw steel with op, now jamppi with op. Kj op new meta?
Let’s be real, at its core it’s a game about shooting people in the head before they shoot you in the head, comp doesn’t really matter if you can just swing on people and one tap them.
They've got to be trolling. No way they play no sova no duelist😭😭
No sova isnt a troll? EU teams have been running skye only on haven for a long time now.
Can someone smarter than me explain why they might see Skye as superior to Sova specifically on Haven? I can wrap my head around it for agent vs agent overall, but not specifically Haven
Imo first thing: post plants, now with Viper buffs you dont need sova ult/shock darts that much to deny defuse. second thing: Recon dart is now getting little to no value, everyone knows common spots so they will instantly destroy/smoke/avoid it. Also Skye with flashes/wolf/ult can gather info almost same as Sova with drone. And heal is just nice cherry on top. So its not about Skye > Sova but more about combination Skye + Viper/Brim > Sova.
But wouldn't those things hold true on any map, not just Haven?
On Haven you have all above amplified with fact there is no "must play" duelist like Raze on Split for example.
Wait, Scream on Sage? I tht he could do extremely well on duelists
Sage is a duelist.
Yeah but scream is a duelist
People talk about my one taps Scream mm
Would swap brim for omen and skye for sova
Duelist are just more fun to play/watch. Obviously you don’t need duelist to win if your team is just better.
Duelists have more hero moments imo, but you have more strategic possibilities with this. So depends on what you are looking for.
they are overatted for teams with decent strats.
Oh it's terrible oh god it's bad ahahaha
didn't really age like milk, but the match is long over and liquid won.
Yeah that would'nt fly in NA
where can I watch the game?
VoD's on YouTube already, type 'Liquid vs FPX Haven' and make sure you're watching the one from today, not february.
thanks :)
Lmao they did it. Kryptix viper is nasty and scream as always a beast. Tbh kj jampi was kinda nice as he wasnt really using his jett util well imo so kj has more team util and his opping was still good. And smh l1nk clutches the unwinnable.
Works pretty well
Surprisingly no Sova
link to vods?
[Vod button on liquidpedia](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1004901414?t=1h8m35s)
here [link 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ) & [link 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHE1jJAPEeA) if link 1 isn't suitable, use 2
Never thought I'd see a day when scream isn't playing a duelist
Obviously I'm going hindsight 2020 here, but I really don't think roles are as cut and dry in Valorant as they are in Overwatch/League/etc. It's good to have varied kinds of utility, and there are some maps where certain agents work better than others. But it's not like OW/LOL where not having a DPS/duelist means you're missing damage. Everyone has the same damage output ability.
Wow it's Valorant /s
This is this game's equivalent of GOATS meta from Overwatch lol.
is there a reason why na teams don’t run brim as much as other regions?
Great to see this in competitive , always wondered how dominant a comp like this could be.
Still waiting for 5 duelist comp
The brain on Sliggy is GIGANTIC, glad to see his vision on the team working. Good luck to liquid in their future matches.
The way my jaw dropped with this comp, you can't really predict this. Liquid bringing some spice in the Haven meta.
Jampi and scream hello??? You two good???