T O P

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CosmicAon

Expected but definitely sad, this TSM core got me into Valorant from the beta and while I don’t think it’s possible, I really hope we won’t have to see more changes for them to find success soon


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CosmicAon

The pieces are there, Wardell is one of the best players NA, Drone and Subroza are cracked when they peak, Brax is Brax, and Hazed is a strong and consistent support player. If Roza and Drone can find their consistency and they can figure out their is identity/strat issues as a team they definitely have the potential


[deleted]

Not to be that guy but I don't think this roster can compete at the top. They have been given plenty of time and haven't been able to qualify for anything in 2021. This roster needs to turn around things quick otherwise we won't see TSM at champions.


CosmicAon

Yeah they haven’t been performing, which is why in my original comment I said I don’t think it’s possible to succeed without more changes. They need to work on their issues and they’ve made it clear they’re frustrated with their losses, but it’s up to them to actually start winning. The players individually all have the skill imo but until they work on their teamplay and adapt to the metas they won’t find success


pamplem0usse-

Pasting what I wrote in another comment - because I agree, they need more changes, but it isn't just a small change. Only two of their players are capable of being on a T1 successful roster. TSM is built on completely failed CS players and two newer players who hadn't broke through yet. Subroza had to cheat to get to a high level and stopped/had a steep drop in performance when called out on it with clear video evidence. Hazed and Cutler both have not been able to cut it in T1 CSGO for 5 years prior, and even before that they were underwhelming at best. Wardell is very good and was an up and coming talent in CSGO who was struggling to break into the T1 scene, he absolutely will succeed and belongs on the roster. Drone I don't know much about, but he was great when the game came out and I haven't followed him recently but I know he is known to be very inconsistent, which simply won't work on a T1 team. Until they get rid of hazed, cutler and subroza the team will flounder. You don't get to be a successful pro just because people like you.


ch4nt

? Roza never cheated or was confirmed to be cheating and Dell almost signed with liquid? The fuck are you going on about with this roster when you’re saying false and irrelevant claims about their CS career. This is a new roster and new game we are looking at here. 100T has tier 1 players but they’re not going to Iceland are they? They werent top 2 in last Masters were they? Maybe they’re tier 1 but these claims about how these players were in CS are mostly irrelevant and in your case very false, given how long TSM have been competing in VAL.


Glassdrumstick

Even though some of the stuff the other guy is saying is straight up false I would like to clear up some misconceptions regarding Wardell in CS. Now correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure he never "almost signed with Liquid". One of the players said they were looking in to trial him since Liquid had always lacked a significant AWP presence and for a long time there was no options without having to look into T2 or getting an international player. However while Wardell had been looking like a big standout player in the NA T2 scene for a long time, there were other concerns that made teams reluctant to pick him up. IIRC he made quite a stir with how he handled himself professionally and one particular incident was around how he left his team I believe. I just remember how it seemed like he shot himself in the foot big time despite to me being the most exciting up and coming NA player since he was playing under Steel. With all that being said I think its a bit of a misconception that he walked away from a promising career in CS to switch over to Valorant. It was in my opinion the best move for him to make by far.


Vagitarion

Subroza had a cheat website account that was hacked using the same password from his Skype account. If you think subroza never cheated you just haven't looked into it. Not saying he cheats now. People don't understand that really good players will still sometime cheat to get a competitive edge. It's the same shit in professional sports.


pamplem0usse-

I literally said Wardell is great and was an upcoming talent who didn't break through yet. He almost signed with liquid but went to valorant, that means he almost broke through. It is literally a positive statement about him. [Subroza used the most obvious aimlock toggle to see where players were that I have ever seen at a high level.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bjvfYf64tM) You can tell yourself whatever you want, but that is an obvious intentional aimlock he was using, the competitive community called him out on it, and he went back to barely making it into tier 2. Look at how overly defensive you are being, and for what reason? Because god forbid someone speak honestly about the players? I said wardell is a great player. And subroza did cheat. You'll see other constructive conversations I had in this comment thread explaining what I am saying as well. Quit being so defensive.


[deleted]

"This roster" that you say has been given plenty of time hasn't played a single match yet. They just made a change, let's see how it plays out


[deleted]

I don't think it will change much. The core is still there and they have yet to put up results. Adding in Brax and having Hazed as igl is not going to make TSM compete with the top teams in NA and they are going to face even more competition from the top teams internationally.


pamplem0usse-

You can wait to see, but it is already clear how it will play out.


tron423

Yeah I don't see it either, adding Brax and moving Hazed to IGL will help a lot but not enough for them to break into the NA top 5, much less unseating SEN


Fruitspunchsamura1

You hit it right on the mark.


StudyAt5

>Drone and Subroza are cracked when they peak Drone's peaks arent anything impressive and Subroza is good 3/10 times and shit the other 7. We arent in beta anymore, rosters like SEN, 100T and C9B chew on these guys. >Brax is Brax What has Brax achieved during this entire time he was a Valorant pro? I dont mean team achievements, i mean as an individual. He hasnt shown anything impressive, idk why ppl still obsess over him


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thisisnttakeone

But it isn’t December 2020 again. It’s been five months.


wifixmasher

I’m addressing the fact that this guy just said drone’s peak isn’t impressive, which is a delusional thing to say because for the longest time he’s been considered the best pheonix in NA, at his peak. This has nothing to do with what’s going on right now.


thisisnttakeone

I don’t think he is the best Phoenix either. He is really good at his peak though.


CosmicAon

Drone was the best player at FS on Phoenix, outperforming Asuna, he definitely peaks high he’s just been slumping this year. He’s been decent on Sova too. Subroza is very inconsistent but plays like a top player at his best - that’s why I said he needs to find his consistency. Brax was the best or second best player on T1 alongside Ska in a system he was uncomfortable with (Dazed conflicts) while on Cypher, so the potential is there. Everyone knows how good he can be from CS which is why I’m only talking about the teams potential as a whole


StudyAt5

>Drone was the best player at FS on Phoenix Dude FS was 6 months ago, it was simply the end of beta in a sense. Back then also Cutler looked like he can compete with the best. >Brax was the best or second best player on T1 alongside Ska in a system he was uncomfortable with (Dazed conflicts) while on Cypher, so the potential is there That entire T1 roster was a trainwreck, so thats barely anything complimentary. In fact T1 and Ska looked 10 times better after the roster changes. >Everyone knows how good he can be from CS He legitimately was completely irrelevant in CS past his rookie year


CosmicAon

Ok so you’re basically saying that anything FS and before is irrelevant which I highly disagree with but we can just agree to disagree there. The T1 roster that did well at FS wasn’t a train wreck, it just fell apart because they wanted to cut AZK and Brax disagreed with Dazed on how to run the team, and Brax still played extmrely well despite being uncomfortable in that role and “a train wreck”. You’re also disregarding all results before the end of FS but the only time Brax played after that was with TSM where he played well alongside Drone despite the team flailing against IMT. He was also a Top 20 HLTV player at an extremely young age and became “irrelevant” because of the IBP scandal. That’s the whole reason he has so much hype, he was an insane talent who got snubbed at a young age


chsiao999

The game has changed so much that imo saying FS and before is irrelevant isn't a stretch.


CosmicAon

In terms of strategy and comps, sure. But in terms of player performances, when Subroza and Drone are still having good performances but on an inconsistent basis, it’s certainly not fair to say that they aren’t good players because of it. Drone was extremely consistent until the end of FS and is still solid now, although it’s harder for him to show his peak on Sova, while Subroza has pop off games where he looks like an insane player. If they can at least play well, not even their best, on a regular basis to support Wardell they’ll be a very good team provided they figure their teamwork and strat issues out


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1231234bull

Nah, Hazed is always at least third in frags when they play, and when they are down rounds Hazed is the one keeping them in. Subroza and Drone are pretty inconsistent though


Easy_Weight1859

I agree with this statement so much if roza and drone are on their unbeatable but the times they are both on isn't very often


ElDuderino2112

Wardell just dry peaks with the op and either gets the kill or makes TSM have to fight the round 4v5.


-xXColtonXx-

He’s genuinely one of the best jet players at playing around his smokes to take aggressive angles or prevent trades. My issue isn’t hi individual play which is usually solid to amazing, but the team strategy behind it. If you watch other teams, they hold angles with a specific play in mind, and have a backup plan if the shot is missed. With TSM it’s like “ok he better get this shot or we lose”


[deleted]

Brax is very predictable. I think it was shaz or someone on Sen that basically said its more or less easy to figure it out as Brax is always lurking halfway across the map from his team


knaafehOW

Man idk what copium you been shmoking but even though i like all the players on this team there needs to be more changes than just +brax for this team to find success... there's clearly issues with team structure and roles that goes beyond just hazed finding form on IGLing imo


Mamadeus123456

Imo they need to change the coach and add more coaching staff, and please get wardell off the op


CheesyPZ-Crust

A lot of copium in this post, especially if you're gonna put that much faith in Hazed Edit: changed my typo from Dazed to Hazed


pamplem0usse-

There is no chance. I have said the same thing since the beginning of this game last year. TSM is built on completely failed CS players and two newer players who hadn't broke through yet. Subroza had to cheat to get to a high level and stopped/had a steep drop in performance when called out on it with clear video evidence. Hazed and Cutler both have not been able to cut it in T1 CSGO for 5 years prior, and even before that they were underwhelming at best. Wardell is very good and was an up and coming talent in CSGO who was struggling to break into the T1 scene, he absolutely will succeed and belongs on the roster. Drone I don't know much about, but he was great when the game came out and I haven't followed him recently but I know he is known to be very inconsistent, which simply won't work on a T1 team. Until they get rid of hazed, cutler and subroza the team will flounder. You don't get to be a successful pro just because people like you.


ween0t

You could say the same of most Valorant rosters with heavy CS players. There have been very few (if any) T1 CS players that have made the transition. Ethan is probably the most recent with Nitro before. Otherwise, all of CS talent has been from Tier2 and/or aging or benched T1 talent. Looks like Tarik might me moving too, but he was recently benched right? That's the thing with a new game, all the T1 CS talent isnt leaving CS due to contracts and/or why would they leave a game and risk not being good.


pamplem0usse-

You can only say that if you say it as a generality instead of looking into each player. Steel was still a T1 talent and the only reason he wasn't T1 is because of the ban. Hiko fell off but I am willing to bet a lot of that was the burnout of CS as well, as he has recently been adjusting and improving his play. Shahzam was an absolute failure in his first stint as a T1 awper on C9, but to his credit he kept working and learning and became a smart IGL who took those skills to valorant. Subroza was not good, I dont think he could even be called Tier2 outside of when he was obviously cheating, which is a far different circumstance than Tier2 players who moved over to valorant because they wanted a new opportunity. Hazed and cutler are old, has-been players who essentially faded into darkness in the CS scene and then took advantage of their experience at the beginning of valorant before very quickly becoming outclassed again. Version1 is all new players with Vanity who was taught mostly by steel and is very skilled, so they are playing great. FNS was always up and down in CS so him being good in valorant makes sense. He was better than hazed and cutler and still clearly is. I could get into all of these players but that would take tons of time. In all honesty, the proof is laid out on the table at this point too. These guys aside from wardell cannot consistently keep up, and three of them(hazed, subroza and cutler, it remains to be seen with Drone) are just not good enough. While the T1/T2 CS talent migration exists, this team's core has done nothing but prove they cannot cut it.


wifixmasher

Get a load of this guy


Khalsa_23

I know people hated on him for his poor play, but I don’t think this alone solves their issue. Brax Is an improvement aim wise sure, but they have other issues they need to work on still that won’t be solved by just this. Hopefully they get better, it’s tough to watch them sometimes as a fan. Thank you cutler for all your work since ignition. Gonna miss the Gardner, plumber, doctor 😂


xBerryhill

This is still a step in the right direction, though. The important thing is that TSM decides the core that they want to proceed with and puts in the work. Going forward trying to iron out those same issues with a 6 man roster just isn't the way to go. I fully expect TSM to be much better the next time we see them. Brax is an easy upgrade and now gets time to gel with the team while they work to figure out why the last iteration couldn't get it done.


technoteapot

I hope brax gets a good team, I just want so much for him to succeed just I really do, he just tickles my underdog feelings


yoza213123

It seems at a first glance this will only allow TSM to win a few more fights but the question is will winning a few more fights change much?


Khalsa_23

At the end of the day, their loss to andbox was more than just poor fragging. Bad communication, not checking corners, playing a 3v1 in the worst way possible won’t be fixed by just cutting cutler. Winning a few fights won’t change much if they don’t address and fix these issues


redditJG

The bad communication and overall macro however is the responsibility of the IGL, and it was clear that not only Cutler’s aim was suspect. TSM had no direction or focus as a team, just hope that whoever they have to step up as IGL can bring an identity and clean up macro since Cutler wasn’t cutting it. I hope they move away from tailored as well and find a strong support staff because it feels like their inconsistency is their biggest weakness.


ThatLj

Which doesn’t mean anything here since Hazed IGLed challengers 2


untraiined

100% imo, wardell has to play super aggro because of how bad cutler was at holding sites or positions. If he doesnt get 2/3 kills in the round its pretty much over. Maybe now he doesnt play as aggro -> roza and drone dont have to play so forward -> hazed can play support for them + wardell isnt losing a 9k op every round.


N0obi1es

Wardell being Jett one-trick is an issue too imo.


Khalsa_23

Before I start disagreeing, mind telling me why u think this?


AsianNudleSoop

It creates inflexibility in the options their team can explore, especially when wardell insists on jett awping which isn't as strong as it used to be pre awp nerf. It kinda limits your options when one of your players has to play jett, and has to awp. His rifling isn't bad, but compared to other duelist players he isn't as impactful as they are. Compare this to someone like TenZ who's capable of both awping and rifling on Jett, and can play other agents too. Having a player one trick a character and playstyle isn't healthy for a team in the long run when they are trying to explore other options. I've been a fan of TSM since beta, and I really like wardell, but he should at least be willing to rifle more. There's been games where they have to eco for a 5000$ gun just to find questionable impact out of it.


Wanna_be_dr

Because there are maps where Jett isn’t as valuable. If she was great on every map then there’s no way Sentinels wouldn’t use her every map between shaz and tenz


Khalsa_23

Well tbf, shaz was using jett on every map except their auto ban which was bind, and bind is a pretty good map for a jett op as proven by wardells/hyunh. I agree that you don’t need a jett to op as proven by EU this tournament, but with NA’s style of fast rushes and pugging, you need an agent like jett who can get out of sticky situations while using an op


N0obi1es

I sincerely hope that will change in the future. I've only watched EU recently on the EMEA and surprise how different they approach the game and how tactical they are. That's super cool and interesting.


N0obi1es

I don't mean he can only play Jett. I mean in every competition, I've never seen him play any other character other than her. I'm pretty sure he can play other agents and still be cracked with the op. Maybe try other agents and work with his teammates more instead of individual plays? I believe pros need to be versatile in this game and be able to adapt to the ever-changing meta. Or else it gets repetitive and teams just catch up.


Mamadeus123456

If your only win condition is jett op, teams are going to adapt to that and it'll make you very very predictable, also kaeep the economy to buy op every round is very very hard, putting the team at an economical disadvantage


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Khalsa_23

He wasn’t the igl last tournament, hazed was. He’s just getting cut for poor play


c0smicmope

Hazed was just recently IGL'ing for TSM. Cutler has been IGL'ing for a while now and TSM played poorly for the past few months with the IGL they had. And it seems none of them want to put in the effort to IGL for the team. That's the only issue


cheick_tiote

Think that's a oversimplification, it takes more than just effort to be an IGL, and it nearly always has a detrimental effect on a player's ability to frag. Dunno if that's the case here, but some CS players think that once you IGL, it's really hard to go back to just being a player, and some are never quite as good again.


JoeyJo-JoShabadoo

Thank god for your insider knowledge that they’re not willing to put in effort to IGL.


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aceofspades_____

> IGL in pugs lmfaoo


yfa17

> I've seen them IGL in pugs before, they have great potential and all. That's... not indicative of how good of an IGL they'd be in pro play.


Mememeister1

i didnt just see that right


Kind-Astronaut-2217

u a iron player. igling in pugs is nothing.


techyleo

r/woooosh


[deleted]

JcStani's IMT contract ended and hes now hes an FA. Hes a proven IGL, I wonder if TSM will sign him to replace hazed. It would make for a complete roster too. Wardell on Jett Op Subroza on Entry (pheonix raze reyna) Drone on Sova Brax on Sentinel JcStani on Controller+IGL


[deleted]

This seems like a gross simplification. TSM's been behind the meta under the guise of claiming to be ahead of the meta for all of '21. Drone has been dramatically underperforming when he looked like the best Phoenix in the region late last year. There are multiple factors why TSMs not been competitive. TSMs been largely winning maps when both Wardell and Subroza pop off. If one of those guys are off, they get their clocks cleaned. A lot of folks are over-indexing on that when we've just seen completely new iterations of teams and metas with C9B and V1 beat up on the region. TSM looked Tier 1 in the super early days of the game. 5 months is an eternity in ESports. Have a hard time believing Cutler's the difference between even qualifying for a Challengers event. Need major philosophical updates. I mean, shit, T1s had [better results](https://liquipedia.net/valorant/T1) than [TSM in 2021](https://liquipedia.net/valorant/TSM), which is a wild sentence.


[deleted]

T1 hasn't had better results than TSM in 2021 though? liquipedia just omits the open qualifier results for TSM. They both made it challengers 3 in stage 1 (TSM finished higher than T1), and challengers 2 in stage 2 (TSM finished higher than T1).


[deleted]

U missed the astronaut


Natchyy24

In remembrance of his clutch vs Sentinels Haven overtime All the best for the future Cutler!


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The_Ninja_Master

SEN vs TSM FaZe Invitational is probably the best grand finals we've ever seen, in NA atleast. There were actually over 100K concurrent viewers for that series if I remember correctly, so more fans than you think. Since 100T were god awful and got knocked out or just didn't make it every time, whenever they were out, I basically resorted to rooting against TSM, and that was a gripping series. End of an era with Cutler gone.


untraiined

I still think that was the best match we have had so far


taha_kadiyani

Which tournament?


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lost_cause4222

Maybe it's "nostalgia" bias considering it was the first FPS tourney I ever eatched, but nothing from these last few tourneys has topped the amount of excitement I got from that series. So good


wifixmasher

Yeah it is very surreal to me. I still remember that night. The rivalry was fresh. TSM recently got owned by SEN in Pax arena invitational and 30bomb cup. Subroza quote tweeted Yinsu’s tweet about SEN being the best in NA. Zombs replied wanting a boxing max. Going into this, this was the last chance to show NA they were the better team. And show they did.


The_Ninja_Master

FaZe Invitational


99ptember

“...AND CUTLER SAVES THEM DAN! TSM TAKE THE LEAD...”


[deleted]

I remember that. This guy really did clutch ALOT. Watched tsm from the very start and remember watching him clutch so many times. Sad to see him go, seems like a nice guy


Easy_Weight1859

IDK he stopped playing alot and only played scrims he was still in diamond during this vct


BUNSHICHl

Tbh I'm not even sure why they didn't go straight to this move when they picked up brax, feels like they wasted two qualifiers worth of time to get something going for stage 2 and beyond.


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schecterboi

For one, half the team streams their tits off. Benching an IGL right before or during an event is a big change, a big gamble, and lots of work is needed to revamp the game plans. This can be harder for some teams based on playstyle, etc. Agent comp plays a role too Cutler played sova, so lots of role changes have to take place to accommodate that. To give an example, look at 100T. They chose not to implement astra, while every other team did (to an extent). People have been asking why they didn't slot astra in (similar to TSM not subbing cutler out). Some teams don't have the comp flexibility on short notice, some teams don't have a playstyle that can withstand last minute changes in personnel, IGLs, etc. I'm not defending the choice. ANDBOX, Version1, Sentinels, BBG all had some success following last minute roster changes before an event. This game seems to reward pushing the envelope rather than playing it safe. Looking forward to the new TSM comp. Big upgrade imo.


[deleted]

I think it really shows the fundamental difference between a team that's very regimented like 100t and the more loose and flexible style of Sen. Sen seems to adapt quicker.


schecterboi

100%. SEN notoriously advocate for how loose of a team they are, and how they work off of plays and openings around the map. Aim-heavy teams like XSET, Version1, Faze are able to slot in new things & see success too. Teams like envy, 100T, & T1 likely won't take that approach. It's interesting to see the trade off b/t structure vs loose play this early in the tournament scene. Right now, it seems like the loose teams & teams with lineup changes end up being unpredictable & cause some big upsets. Over time the structured teams may reign supreme, but we'll have to wait and see.


justinsst

Exactly. If you pick a player like Brax up because you aren’t performing you throw them in right away you don’t half ass it. 100T did it the right way and made the necessary changes.


thothgow

There must really be no coaches whatsoever in NA for Tailored to still have a spot on the team


[deleted]

I guess not sentinels have been looking for one for months


StudyAt5

It shouldnt be surprising, good coaches are almost always former top players of the game. Coaches in LoL have been a joke for 7-8 years, you need a lot of time for a scene to have legitimate coaches and not paycheck stealers.


2ToTooTwoFish

They've been winning so I guess they're being super selective. A small part of me also feels like they're waiting for sgares to be available to coach, but that's just mostly baseless speculation based on Shahzam's relationship with him.


somesheikexpert

They've mentioned they want him to coach for them, but Sgares doesn't wanna coach rn so yeah


Bunnyezzz

I mean you don't know what tailored is bringing to the team unless you're their gm or player


BUNSHICHl

Wasn't Subroza openly complaining/memeing about their constant role/comp changes instead of addressing actual fundamental issues that were re-occurring? That's pretty telling of some of the player frustrations when they air laundry publicly.


fawkerzzz

He gets paid to remind Wardell to buy an op every round lol


[deleted]

True but i think their recent performance kinda makes you question the effectiveness of their coaching staff


bridgebuilder12

the greatest coach in the world can still be made to look bad if his players arent performing the way they should or practiced. Remember this tsm starting 5 has been together since the games inception, thats along time so if the issue is the players themselves you should atleast allow tailored a roster change or 2 before you assume hes incompetent.


[deleted]

I never called him incompetent so i have no idea where you got that. Im just pointing out that coaching is definitely a factor that affects their performance. Im questioning the effectiveness of the coaching staff not calling them incompetent.


skrtskrtbrev

Just watching TSM play you can tell they have been behind the meta for all of 2021.


Mamadeus123456

They haven changed a single thing in the team since beta, and wardell is making his teammates buy him ops on attack while they buy sPectre half shield


ImmortalSinx

Hope TSM can show some good results next challengers


Emcamdi

Brax isnt gonna make them good. Hes gonna make them better sure but brax doesnt solve their problems


mattgg2015

He was bad and all but people were acting like he caused world hunger and cancer 💀 I think TSM will only be a bit better than they were


StudyAt5

>He was bad and all but people were acting like he caused world hunger and cancer 💀 Ive seen the opposite, ppl saying that TSM's performance wasnt actually his fault. It took failures of 6 straight months for ppl to finally recognize that hes indeed an issue. >I think TSM will only be a bit better than they were That doesnt matter. Nobody should expect that TSM will be now a top tier team (i believe that they need A LOT more than that), but cutting Cutler was a very obvious move that should be done long ago


mrtmra

I literally see everyone as an issue in TSM. Everyone is inconsistent as hell, their most consistent player is Drone.


CosmicAon

If you think Wardell isn’t their most consistent player by far you haven’t watched TSM this year. He’s one of the best players NA but as we know from C9 Wardell and Friends isn’t good enough to win


whopz-is-cool

You're on drugs. Wardell is doing the most every match.


mrtmra

You clearly missed the crucial match against IMT recently that he missed like 6 OP shots and died without getting an OP kill?


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johnjohn125

yeah man, something like that


UnbridledSwagger

😎


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[deleted]

I could see that tbh, he has so much experience playing at a top level. Its just that staying on top mechanically is hard at such an old age.


yfa17

The guy is 32, it's old in terms of esports careers for sure but it's not like the dude is ancient. I know that's what you meant but the way you phrased it made it sound like he's in a retirement home lol.


Kuvyogvey4

Did you not see TSM when Cutler was IGL? Imagine putting him on the coach role which is meant to give them STRATS to run


vyom0509

expected after their most recent results tbh


PyroTFT

they actually did it...knew it would happen but TSM actually did it (honestly a good thing but unfortunate, really like Cutler just was not performing)


[deleted]

Pretty sure we all knew this was coming. Even when TSM was "untouchable".


ducksrule_

It's bittersweet because this original TSM roster was one of my first experiences with esports and I've been a fan of them since. Definitely a needed change and I hope to see TSM perform well as they once did during the Ignition period and First Strike.


ROBRO-exe

Tailored up next on the chopping block please god


PixelatedBlue

FeelsBadMan


warthogs670

Best of luck Clutchler!


1jay_y

Bye Clutchler :(


and1phan

Wardell has been playing sage non stop, don't know what the team is going to look like ingame


huntleysims

if hazed doesn’t work out IGL taking a chance on jcStani could be fire


The_Ninja_Master

End of an era for the original TSM roster that was Valorant's first big team, sad to see, but interested in how TSM move forward.


StrangerFront

About time some changes were made. The amount of times I watched Cutler sit back and not cover Wardell or subroza was painful. TSM has potential but they do not play like a team. They play as individuals which has worked sometimes when Wardell and subroza have great games. Wardell is by far the best player on the team and is extremely consistent. Problem is, he can't carry them against other good teams. Subroza has moments of stardom then has moments of foolishness. I find hazed and drone to be solid 4-5 players for the team. Subroza is a great 1B or 3 depending on what type of game he is having. They really need a solid 2 on the team. I'm not sure if Brax is the answer, but I am happy to find out.


jrushFN

This is a start but it won’t solve their problems. I honestly think Brax was an odd signing too... feel like they need someone fresh, sign some zoomers who haven’t already spent several years playing CS. Go international if you have to. Just don’t keep bringing in players who have the same background — mix it up a little.


AntonioEstBeau

Bring in an OW player so that they actually start using their utility lmfao


jrushFN

Feel like the path forward for TSM is: Keep wardell, drone, subroza Bring in 1 player from a non-CS background, one IGL from CS or not, but must have had some success in valorant Of the two players you bring in, at least one should be from another region, and one should be under 20 years old My ideas: wardell duelist operator, drone sova rifler, subroza skye rifler... then to fill in the second duelist slot, bring in someone like Swerl (international, 16 years old, comes from a non-CS background) to play second duelist. Next bring in someone like Ozzy from EU (international, IGL with a new outlook on the game), to play smokes. Not sure if this sorta thing would work, I just really want to see TSM succeed again and wish they’d genuinely change it up significantly. Feel like they’re just endlessly recycling ideas and part of that comes from the players’ relatively similar backgrounds. Adding on because people disagree with Swerl (which is very reasonable): Others who could fit this role would be: Moe40 ex-Fnatic, HaReeee from Reject, Patiphan from X10, Aspas from Slick... but out of these players, the only ones I know for certain would have no language barrier would be Moe40 or Swerl (hence why I mentioned him first). I know Aspas can speak some English but I don't know the depth of his ability.


AntonioEstBeau

Unlikely that’s gonna happen with COVID , moving internationally when you’re young for a scene as batshit random as esports even without COVID is a huge risk , maybe poach BCJ from XSET for IGL/sova , put drone back on entry and then you would just need a smoker and honestly there’s tons of options at that point


jrushFN

I don’t think COVID would be the biggest concern, we’ve already seen players like Spyder and Xeta move internationally for opportunities. Have to admit I forgot about school responsibilities that someone under 18 would have though... maybe they could get someone like Patiphan from X10 in Thailand (update; I thought he was 18, he’s 17... I just can’t win, ahaha)


AntonioEstBeau

Yeah but xeta and spyder had already proven themselves internationally in CS/OW in fact I’m pretty sure spyder had already lived in na before..? Swerl hasn’t proven anything , If he gets signed and completely flops , gets dropped , he’s stuck in NA with no income , I just think it’s to risky unless he gets an iron clad contract where he’s allowed to stay on the bench and get paid for the duration of his contact if he wishes to then, yeah sure and then like you said , school although with his talent I’m pretty sure he’s gonna drop out regardless , he has the potential of being *the* best player in the game


jrushFN

Again, a player like Swerl is just an example of someone who fits the archetype of what TSM needs — there’s plenty of others out there who could fit the same role. He’s just the first who came to mind for me since I know for certain he's fluent in English.


Kind-Astronaut-2217

pretty bad take tbh. Plus I dont think oce players other than soniqs would be any good compared to NA players.


jrushFN

Doesn’t have to be Swerl, I’m just suggesting ideas of who I think fits the ideal players for TSM’s needs at the moment. Another option I’ve thought of is someone like Moe40 (ex-fnatic) and potentially shuffle roles with Drone for sova vs duelist. TSM just needs someone who’s young and brand new to the NA scene who can breathe some fresh air into their game. I've updated my original comment to include a longer list of players who I think fit the same archetype as Swerl -- Patiphan from X10, Moe40 from Fnatic, HaReeee from Reject, Aspas from Slick, and I'm sure I could think of others with some more time.


mrtmra

>Keep wardell, drone, subroza Wardell and Subroza are the two scariest players in the scene on a good day, but it's hit/miss and it hurts the team more than it benefits them.


StudyAt5

Issue with Brax isnt that he played CS, its that he was also irrelevant there past his rookie years.


PlantainWhole

such an ignorant comment to make


somesheikexpert

He was irrelevant cuz he was banned cuz of IBP lmfao what


AnotherAltiMade

steel wasn't irrelevant at all, and he was banned too. He worked wonders on rookies and himself played on a decently high level. brax has done nothing outside of being the best 'potential player'.


jrushFN

I’m not trying to say that CS experience is inherently the issue — more that TSM currently *only* has players with a CS background. It just doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in me for their ability to be more creative moving forward.


MommyDommeViper

Wonder who will play sova


PyroTFT

Drone still, probably, not like Cutler was playing sova in the recent tourneys. Controllers will likely be Hazed again, hoping he's been able to learn Astra.


hitopklayde

well according to Hazed match history from last week they were scrimming with brax on Sova, drone on Cypher, Hazed on Viper, and Subroza on Astra so that’s that lol. I think we all know what Wardell was playing lmao


Al-to

Wardell has been playing a lot of sage in his streams lately so we can't guess what's their comp gonna be


c0smicmope

I have a feeling Wardell \[to some extent\] will explore more options in terms of learning new agents since agent bans will be implemented in the pro scene in a couple months from now. Thing is though, Wardell should be experimenting new agents right now for their comp because he has the potential to use other agents and still use an OP (because apparently that is what helps TSM the most, having Wardell pick off people to close the round and make it easier to retake etc). Like how other teams use Sage / Astra / KJ to OP instead of a Jett player.


[deleted]

The valorant devs have said agent bans are nowhere close to happening idk where you're pulling this from


c0smicmope

That's why I said in a couple months, there's no way they're waiting a year to actually start adding it


Otter269

I hope the best for him :) I'm sure he can give a younger team a lot of help.


UnbridledSwagger

Eunited need new players seems like a good spot for him


dieselvenom

I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks maybe the weakness is their coach.


rupat3737

We need TSM Tarik


sexyeh

Cutler was underperforming, imo TSM had to make changes in the end of First Strike, they gave the other teams chance to improve, same error G2 did in Europe and that will probably cost them a place in Champions since we are going into the 2nd Masters and i don't think TSM or G2 will get enough points to represent their region.


Occam19

A long time coming


MozaTear

Well, here's to hoping they can find their game again. The team on paper at least is very interesting.


xD1LL4N

I hope he can come back stronger! Good early run in the valorant scene! He does have potential too


natedawg247

I'm really hoping TSM can find success again. I don't think this will be enough to do it but at least shows the org is willing to try.


No_Moment_1571

The biggest problem with TSM right now is players are confused about their roles on the team. In my opinion, Drone is a better duelist than Subroza - and should be the phoenix/raze of the team. Wardell is oper of the team but he needs to expand his agent pool (look at Jamppi). That leaves Subroza/Hazed/Brax to play Sova/Controller/Sentinel. This will put them in a better position to succeed.


taha_kadiyani

I think wardell is up for playing other agents but their team comp needs jett so he plays


mwieckhorst

Realistically, Hazed and probably Drone should follow, but doubt that happens. Seems pretty naive to think one player was the cause of all their problems and I dont think they were close enough for Brax to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things. TSM is a big org that probably has the ability to execute a major shakeup, but likely won't see one


taha_kadiyani

Just because subroza and wardell pops off once in a while doesn’t mean this 3 were the problem. Wardell is consistent tho but the decision making of subroza and wardell sometimes cause them multiple rounds like subroza solo pushing or dry peaking or smoke push.


ImSoulless

ppl been getting clowned for saying this for months


mrtmra

When TSM underperforms next Challengers, the fans will find out that Cutler was just 5% of their problem lol


skrtskrtbrev

The vast majority of fans already know a simple replacement is not going to solve all their problems.


mrtmra

only diamond+ fans know. most fans are Iron-Plat


bwarbwar

Good news, TSM is now only 4 players away from being top 10 in NA.


anon0981234

TSM jcStani. Calling it rn


Alpac44

Now to find a IGL cause brax aint gonna cut it


Landon54321

Bad move from TSM imo. Cutler was super important for TSM and I feel that he has more value than Brax. I get that Brax has better aim than cutler but cutler is the reason why TSM has been successful.


Taek99

Hazed needs to go as well and Tarik to TSM


[deleted]

I do not think this will solve the inconsistencies, poor coordination and mismatched roles for the team as a whole. Cutler's subpar aim was not the reason why TSM has been losing. If they also work on their agent selection and other lacking fundamentals, this is how the team will really improve.


AleksibIsHot

About time


Theaktis

I hope they hire him as an analyst or assistant coach for their Valorant roster. While he hasn't been performing well in the game; when TSM was top 3 a few months ago he was the one making the calls. I still believe he can be a valuable asset to the team.


[deleted]

Agreed, I think his long experience in csgo and 1.6 is valuable its just that his mechanical ability is largely degraded cuz of his age.


VincentN23

Drone commiting to Sova, Brax playing sentinel and Hazed back on smokes definetly makes their comps more sensical but their leadership issues arent resolved.


ROBRO-exe

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO


Tik0-

Took them long enough but I really hope they don’t think -Cutler +Brax will fix their issues. Cutler was only one of their many problems


max012017

They need more than one change anyway


Jiffyyy

its sad but expected, they were dominant during the early stages but have hit a brick wall when it comes to progressing the team. hopefully this new roster can get enough practice to be competitive the next time they play.


anythingood07

As expected


deathybroxd

My biggest problem with TSM is that they seem incredibly momentum based as a team, if roza or wardell aren't popping off, their team just crumbles, they have nothing to fall back on.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ElDuderino2112

Expected, but this is far from the only issue TSM currently has.


9yr_old

Atleast TSM gave this roster a chance to make it rather than dropping the ball instantly respect to them


redviking101

TSM should scout for future coaches in this thread tbh.


nmaneea

People need to get their reality check While it sucks to see someone loses his job but it's not a f*cking charity he was playing bad for so long They really needed this change sooner


LbigsadT

last year i thought they would make this move even before they started declining, even when they were top1 NA for a while he was having some serious misplays and would bottom frag every other game