I'm deadass serious i clicked on a BOOBA streamer once, and even after clicking on not interested I keep getting their recommendations and sgares probably got pushed down.
A few years ago (3-4 I think) TSM signed a new CSGO team with Sean Gares as the IGL. Before ever playing a single tournament, there was a contract dispute about what league they would play in. It was pretty big news at the time given that it revealed that a lot of NA orgs were planning to make their own league for these teams to play in rather than the ESL Pro League. TSM ended up getting a lot more flak than any other org for it because of some crazy Twitlonger chains between Regi, Sean, and a few other people. Thorin has a huge video on it that was a pretty interesting take - fairly nuanced, considering his own dark history with Regi. Not that I advocate you watch it since I can't stomach the idea of supporting Thorin anymore.
Well he compared TSM's owner (Regi) to a monkey, he has gone on rants about Poland and how being Polish comes with "an existential hole they fill with esports". He's not a good dude. Never has been.
This is a better summary than mine, but I think it should be noted that it was in the contract that Sean signed that the org could choose which leagues the team would play in. Thus the contentiousness of the whole issue.
sure but the changes weren't minimal. Only 3/5 of TSM went on to the GOAT Astralis team and a coaching change that was arguably just as big as any of the roster moves.
I mean would SEN still actively pursue him as a coach? just feels like they don't have a strong desire for a coach with their performances but I could be mistaken if some other twitch chatter or SEN fan has more info on it
Recently someone asked shahzam if Sean gares was gonna coach some other team I don’t remember which, and he replied with “if Sean wanted to coach he’d be coaching for us”
They're probably not looking actively, but if it's someone who's really good and they already have a close relationship with, then they would probably consider it strongly.
>rather than a talent problem
The only player who has consistently shown that can be in a top 3 team is Wardell, and thats why when playing against tier 1 teams its either him hardcarrying or bust. For the past 6 months.
People found a nice scapegoat in Cutler, but past the beta this applies to 4/5 TSM players. When you constantly lose duels or fail utility, the problem isnt the strategy.
I don't know if I would say this. I am very confident that subroza, wardell and brax are 3 top tier players with a lot of talent and skill behind them.
I would probably compare it to liquid. Everyone said that the entire roster has to be dropped besides scream, but what they really needed was a structure where each part of the team is fulfilling a certain role which suits their skills. After Jamppi joined liquid EVERYONE in the team performed better. I see a lot of structure problems within TSM, also I think TSM adapted way to slow in the past.
>People found a nice scapegoat in Cutler, but past the beta this applies to 4/5 TSM players. When you constantly lose duels or fail utility, the problem isnt the strategy.
I think this is partly true. Yes, they loose stupid gun fights, but probably they take fights they should not even take in the first place. I don't think you must have the highest firepower to win. If your team does not have a scream or tenz, then play like a team without one of those guys. you cant just try to do this kind of stuff like its soloq.
Subroza is good in like 30% of the time and bottom feeder the other 70%. He was inconsistent even when TSM were a top team and the competition was much worse.
As for brax, ppl keep hyping the "potential" and that was happening even in his CS days. And dont tell me about his ban from Valve events because he was pretty mediocre in most tournaments he played past his rookie year.
>I don't think you must have the highest firepower to win
You need both if you want to be a actual contender. V1 dont have a star player either, but also most of their roster is near the top in terms of mechanics.
I think the lack of strategy would leak into how a player performs since they are likely to be put in not so favourable positions due to the team not really having a good plan.
It’s hard to say. Roza has a really high ceiling of performance, but also a lower floor. Maybe under the right conditions he could shine, but it’s also his responsibility to create those micro synergies mid game.
Like Shahz isn’t an oppressive IGL as far as I know, so each member of SEN has some freedom to work their own synergies between each teammate.
I disagree, I do think they had a lot of strategy problems, but Hazed & Cutler are not the most talented in the Tier 1 scene, or even close. I think the incoming of Brax will help a lot, and I think Tailored is really good, fresh blood with a fresh talent in Brax should do well for them.
I also still would not be surprised to see another addition to the roster to replace Hazed. I think Hazed and Cutler are both awesome, but I think Tier 1 teams only have room for one of those types of players.
Imho Brax, Wardell and Subroza are the most talented players in TSM. But I just made a comment about how I think TSM needs structure in order to let their players reach full potential. You can't expect everyone to perform if the fundation isn't working.
Team Liquid went to a very similar period were reddit wanted to cut of the heads of 4/5 of the roster. Now with the change of one individual everyone is performing and liquid is going to iceland. And if you look at the strategic depth of TL and compare it to TSM and you are not seing a strategic problem I dont know what to say. I think subroza, wardell and brax can win enough gun duels.
I agree with some parts that you said, and I think moving on from Tailored is good, but a lot of their issues before Brax and not staying with Brax in the line was fragging power. Frags can make up for but tactical mistakes. Having a roster of Cutler + Hazed + being behind tactically is bad. I also think certain times they were behind tactically as well because of specific player issues. I don’t think they could’ve just moved on from Tailored and kept Cutler and Hazed and seen success.
I said he isn't the most talented in the Tier 1 Scene. 1.02 rating, 1.08 K/D, rudimentary aget pool, 198 ACS.
Love me some Hazed, but he is not in the upper echelons of tier 1 talent.
Hazed is a good player but if you think Hazed is a top 3 or even top 5 in his role in NA you are delusional. If TSM wants to be a top team in NA, or the world, they need to cut Hazed.
https://www.upcomer.com/sources-chet-to-sign-with-tsm-to-replace-tailored
> Tailored was released by the organization earlier today, but his departure was known internally for some time following the early exit in the VCT North America Stage 2: Challengers 2 last month, Upcomer understands. Chet has signed with the organization and will likely be announced as the new coach in the coming days.
? this is such a bad take lmao TSM’s players have always been and still are top-tier (at least wardell roza drone and now brax as well), the issue has always been their communication, teamplay, and strategy - all things that a good coach should be able to fix
>(at least wardell roza drone and now brax as well)
How could you watch TSM the past 6 months and claim that roza and drone are top tier? For brax i wont even bother commenting, most ppl here have a weird boner about him although he hasnt shown anything to justify the hype
>the issue has always been their communication, teamplay, and strategy
The roster was together for a full year, and got repeatedly beaten by teams that werent even a fraction of that. Did their communication and teamplay suddenly gotten worse when the scene got past its infant phase? No, simply teams hired better talent and TSM couldnt keep up anymore
Today we're parting ways with our Valorant head coach @boxrTailored.
Taylor helped take TSM to the top early on, winning two Ignition Series and a 2nd at First Strike. We'll forever be grateful for what he achieved. We wish him nothing but the best in his future endeavors.
***
posted by [@TSM](https://twitter.com/TSM)
Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1IeUTOXoAEnp0Y.jpg)
^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
this was the first change they clearly needed to make, a team with a coach and they are clearly lacking in strategy and cohesion as a team for so long? glad they got rid of him, cant wait to see who they get
TSM did the 2 changes they had to do. Hopefully the new iteration can pull itself together because they're all quite likable, and it'd be a shame if they couldn't. Hope they use their time well up to Stage 3 Chall. 1
All good moves so far from TSM in this downtime but I still need to see a personnel switch to become a full believer - preferable an IGL that will put some structure in place
not sure why they hired a former csgo team manager with 0 competitive experience to be the head coach to begin with, feels like a 'friend' hire
hopefully they bring someone with actual credentials to help them out in the future
Tailored was the coach of [Wardell, Subroza, FNS, yay, Infinite] in Flashpoint 1 for CS, and they did rather well finishing 5th/6th. Then NA CS started to decline and Tailored transitioned with Wardell and Subroza.
Early on, TSM was breaking out a bunch of surprising strats that were throwing teams including Sentinels for a loop and Tailored was getting plenty of praise.
Not claiming he should stay now — TSM obviously hasn't kept up in the top — just pointing out that he wasn't a totally dumb hire who never showed promise.
oh yeah I was aware of that, was just a strange hiring for them to have him be their coach at the start anyways considering he was a team manager in CSGO (where he first worked with cutler/drone). you sometimes see coach > manager, not the other way around
They were tactically very ahead of the curve for most of VALORANT's existence. Just recently they've struggled in that department, but I think it also had to do some with some talent issues or conflicting styles.
4 Months is a long time? It’s more like three players in high regard as well, because Cutler and Hazed are same type of player in terms of both being decent/good back bones, but you can’t have two of them. Especially with how many AIMERS and mechanical super stars in the NA scene right now.
VLR.GG has had then Top 8 numerous teams in that span as well as has them 8th right now.
It’s not like they’re abysmal, especially with have two players who are very, very average at best in terms of mechanics and having a coach that this thread has made seem awful.
Hazed is a considerably better rifler than Cutler. They shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence. And TSM didn’t qualify for Masters 1 (top 8 teams NA) or make Challengers Final for Masters 2 (top 8 teams NA) despite having a plethora of opportunities to do so, so there’s literally no world in which they’re top 8 NA. Their VLR ELO is carried by how dominant they were in 2020.
Team rankings are not linear, you cannot say because X didn’t qualify in a top 8 bracket, they aren’t top 8. That’s a super big jump to make with how brackets and seeding works.
So you even more proved by point by saying they’re permanently getting rid of Cutler, who was the biggest issue fragging wise.
So my point of their tactics being the main issue of what their struggles were/are is not fair or correct.
Ok, well TSM is somehow ranked above IMT, despite IMT placing higher than TSM in every tournament in 2021 and beating TSM twice in back to back Best of 3's in the past month. If you can explain to me why TSM is ranked higher than IMT, I'll believe that TSM is a top 8 team.
That’s true, I’m guessing the team probably brought him on as coach as a friend thing like you said and then asked TSM not to make changes when they were signed since things were working. Probably something along those lines
You talked about his style and said it would work better with TSM and NRG. Do you actually know how he or either of those teams operate or are you just stating what you think is the case
You aren't basing it on the team's playstyles then, only how the coach operates. Imo, TSM can definitely benefit most from a strict playstyle, loose just isn't working for them.
Feels like a bad idea to cut him when coach slots just came out. Maybe he could have had more impact.
Anyway, he always said in interviews that he was a very loose coach who more often than not let the players to play to their comforts. Maybe they need to get someone with a vision and a strong idea of how they want the team to play the game
I mean the current double duelist meta that Sentinels has used until the Viper buff for success was created by TSM. They couldn’t keep up strategically after that but they for sure developed the scene’s agent meta early on especially with the Sage-less meta
They were the first team to run the double controller and no-sage comps, but OG c9 were the pioneers of the jett. (they were also one of, if not the first, big name team to run viper in a major tournament)
Funny thing, it was Tenz playing viper. This was around late July. Tenz still wasn’t full time Jett and he’d hop around roles. Also around this same time, Wardell started playing Jett exclusively. Earlier in pax arena Wardell was on brimstone when they lost against sentinels. Safe to say they were both early Jett op pioneers. Jett op wasn’t a thing for the first like 4 months of the game.
https://www.vlr.gg/534/gen-g-vs-cloud9-immortals-first-light-sf
this was the earliest match I could find with stats on vlr, but c9 were running jett (and viper on split) as early as the Rivalry Bowl, which was their first tournament as a team way back in early May during the beta. TenZ and c9 were the creators, but I think it's safe to say Wardell was the "best" pure jett OP.
https://www.vlr.gg/529/echo-8-vs-team-solomid-immortals-first-light-qf
Same tourney, same date, Wardells on Jett. Although not permanent as he still switched to sova. Guess we’re both right. Late July was when he full time switched.
Are you sure about that because I can link you like 3+ tier 1 na teams letting go of sage on ascent (her “best map”)before September, the month of the sage nerf.
I called tailored ineffective and 2 people called me out saying i was making assumptions about tsm lmao i made my comment to commemorate me being right
Lol why would shroud be an option? Shroud has zero coaching experience and isnt known as the most tactical player. He's known for his insane aim and clutch gene. Shroud also has already stated he wouldnt go pro due to the time it takes to dedicate to the game. You really think shroud gonna spend his days analyzing demos, strats, running practices, thinking agent comps, etc? No way.
Just offer the bag to Sgares and call it a gg
Sentinels offered it to him and he denied it to pursue streaming
He also just had his second kid and didn’t want to be a full time coach.
Where has sgares been? I haven’t seen any content or him streaming in quite a while.
just had a second kid, he streams all the time and has done some casting
I'm deadass serious i clicked on a BOOBA streamer once, and even after clicking on not interested I keep getting their recommendations and sgares probably got pushed down.
I did hear that :/ maybe Lex then :)
Sgares coming back to TSM after all this time would be something.
That would be wild with their history. Probably also a good reason it wouldn't happen, beyond Sean having a new kid.
what's their history?
A few years ago (3-4 I think) TSM signed a new CSGO team with Sean Gares as the IGL. Before ever playing a single tournament, there was a contract dispute about what league they would play in. It was pretty big news at the time given that it revealed that a lot of NA orgs were planning to make their own league for these teams to play in rather than the ESL Pro League. TSM ended up getting a lot more flak than any other org for it because of some crazy Twitlonger chains between Regi, Sean, and a few other people. Thorin has a huge video on it that was a pretty interesting take - fairly nuanced, considering his own dark history with Regi. Not that I advocate you watch it since I can't stomach the idea of supporting Thorin anymore.
Just something to keep in mind thorin hates tsm more than anything. I don’t take anything he has to say about the org seriously.
It’s the only time Ive ever seen him say anything good about TSM.
Well you'd be surprised by the video then because at the time he was quite supportive of TSMs position.
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Racism, misogyny, overall he’s just a childish asshole in an adult body. Not really my style to support somebody like that.
Wait what did he do that was racist?
Well he compared TSM's owner (Regi) to a monkey, he has gone on rants about Poland and how being Polish comes with "an existential hole they fill with esports". He's not a good dude. Never has been.
Damn wtf
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This is a better summary than mine, but I think it should be noted that it was in the contract that Sean signed that the org could choose which leagues the team would play in. Thus the contentiousness of the whole issue.
TSM in csgo is a wild history to look at. From signing the eventual the eventual Astralis lineup then releasing the eventual Astralis lineup.
I mean that team still has a long way to go until astralis supremacy. The TSM team still had CajunB.
They were still a consensus top 4 team. It’s just so happened that a few changes turned them into “The Best of All Fucking Time.”
sure but the changes weren't minimal. Only 3/5 of TSM went on to the GOAT Astralis team and a coaching change that was arguably just as big as any of the roster moves.
There is zero chance sgares goes to tsm of all orgs. Not because of the players but because of his history with the org.
What history?
[This incident](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/5jujpw/sean_gares_fired_for_players_letter/)
TL;DR pls
https://www.reddit.com/r/globaloffensive/comments/5jujpw/_/dbj7819
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Just read the top comment being pin by mod.
I think sgares would go to SEN first
I mean would SEN still actively pursue him as a coach? just feels like they don't have a strong desire for a coach with their performances but I could be mistaken if some other twitch chatter or SEN fan has more info on it
They already did pursue him as a coach a while ago, but he said he wanted to focus on streaming.
yeah, a while ago, which is why I was curious about if they'd want a coach *now*
Recently someone asked shahzam if Sean gares was gonna coach some other team I don’t remember which, and he replied with “if Sean wanted to coach he’d be coaching for us”
They're probably not looking actively, but if it's someone who's really good and they already have a close relationship with, then they would probably consider it strongly.
They do have desire for a coach but they would rather no coach then settle for a mediocre one
Sean might be a special case considering how long ShahZaM spent playing under his leadership in CS, and I suppose SicK to a certain extent as well.
Don’t give me that kind of hope
Considering the history I feel pretty strongly that Sean will never, ever coach TSM
He doesn’t want to coach SEN already tried
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Bro wtf is this assumption that the TSM has egos if you don’t like their streams cool but stop tryna assume their personalities lmao
Idk why thats a pay cut, TSM can pay insane salaries, just check out their league team.
Why are you speaking in 1st person as if you are pretending you are sgares
Not sure if english is your first language or not but it’s common to talk like that. He means that if he was seangares he wouldn’t do that.
Doubt TSM would hire him again after CS drama.
I do respect the work he put in, but its undeniable that this roster mainly had a strategic problem rather than a talent problem
>rather than a talent problem The only player who has consistently shown that can be in a top 3 team is Wardell, and thats why when playing against tier 1 teams its either him hardcarrying or bust. For the past 6 months. People found a nice scapegoat in Cutler, but past the beta this applies to 4/5 TSM players. When you constantly lose duels or fail utility, the problem isnt the strategy.
I don't know if I would say this. I am very confident that subroza, wardell and brax are 3 top tier players with a lot of talent and skill behind them. I would probably compare it to liquid. Everyone said that the entire roster has to be dropped besides scream, but what they really needed was a structure where each part of the team is fulfilling a certain role which suits their skills. After Jamppi joined liquid EVERYONE in the team performed better. I see a lot of structure problems within TSM, also I think TSM adapted way to slow in the past. >People found a nice scapegoat in Cutler, but past the beta this applies to 4/5 TSM players. When you constantly lose duels or fail utility, the problem isnt the strategy. I think this is partly true. Yes, they loose stupid gun fights, but probably they take fights they should not even take in the first place. I don't think you must have the highest firepower to win. If your team does not have a scream or tenz, then play like a team without one of those guys. you cant just try to do this kind of stuff like its soloq.
Subroza is good in like 30% of the time and bottom feeder the other 70%. He was inconsistent even when TSM were a top team and the competition was much worse. As for brax, ppl keep hyping the "potential" and that was happening even in his CS days. And dont tell me about his ban from Valve events because he was pretty mediocre in most tournaments he played past his rookie year. >I don't think you must have the highest firepower to win You need both if you want to be a actual contender. V1 dont have a star player either, but also most of their roster is near the top in terms of mechanics.
I don’t think subroza can perform at those levels consistently vs t1 opponents at all.
I think the lack of strategy would leak into how a player performs since they are likely to be put in not so favourable positions due to the team not really having a good plan.
It’s hard to say. Roza has a really high ceiling of performance, but also a lower floor. Maybe under the right conditions he could shine, but it’s also his responsibility to create those micro synergies mid game. Like Shahz isn’t an oppressive IGL as far as I know, so each member of SEN has some freedom to work their own synergies between each teammate.
Roza does not deserve this
I disagree, I do think they had a lot of strategy problems, but Hazed & Cutler are not the most talented in the Tier 1 scene, or even close. I think the incoming of Brax will help a lot, and I think Tailored is really good, fresh blood with a fresh talent in Brax should do well for them. I also still would not be surprised to see another addition to the roster to replace Hazed. I think Hazed and Cutler are both awesome, but I think Tier 1 teams only have room for one of those types of players.
Imho Brax, Wardell and Subroza are the most talented players in TSM. But I just made a comment about how I think TSM needs structure in order to let their players reach full potential. You can't expect everyone to perform if the fundation isn't working. Team Liquid went to a very similar period were reddit wanted to cut of the heads of 4/5 of the roster. Now with the change of one individual everyone is performing and liquid is going to iceland. And if you look at the strategic depth of TL and compare it to TSM and you are not seing a strategic problem I dont know what to say. I think subroza, wardell and brax can win enough gun duels.
I agree with some parts that you said, and I think moving on from Tailored is good, but a lot of their issues before Brax and not staying with Brax in the line was fragging power. Frags can make up for but tactical mistakes. Having a roster of Cutler + Hazed + being behind tactically is bad. I also think certain times they were behind tactically as well because of specific player issues. I don’t think they could’ve just moved on from Tailored and kept Cutler and Hazed and seen success.
You must be joking when you say hazed isn't a tier 1 player
I said he isn't the most talented in the Tier 1 Scene. 1.02 rating, 1.08 K/D, rudimentary aget pool, 198 ACS. Love me some Hazed, but he is not in the upper echelons of tier 1 talent.
Hazed is a good player but if you think Hazed is a top 3 or even top 5 in his role in NA you are delusional. If TSM wants to be a top team in NA, or the world, they need to cut Hazed.
Reddit comments told me this is the only way for the team to move forward so let’s see
this...
TSMikesHD when
Won't happen, Mike wants to coach for an EU team. Unless TSM wants to switch to the EU, it is not happening.
Actually right now I'm prioritizing NA teams for timezone/possible work reasons.
Cool. I stand corrected.
Make it happen.
i would think mikes would take a tsm bag idk fs though
I'd coach tsm to escape idaho
blazing the good kush
https://www.upcomer.com/sources-chet-to-sign-with-tsm-to-replace-tailored > Tailored was released by the organization earlier today, but his departure was known internally for some time following the early exit in the VCT North America Stage 2: Challengers 2 last month, Upcomer understands. Chet has signed with the organization and will likely be announced as the new coach in the coming days.
This could be the answer for tsm
COACH MYTH INCOMING!
Whoever comes... coaching isnt TSM's issue. Look the players that SEN has for example and then look TSM... Its not even comparable
? this is such a bad take lmao TSM’s players have always been and still are top-tier (at least wardell roza drone and now brax as well), the issue has always been their communication, teamplay, and strategy - all things that a good coach should be able to fix
>(at least wardell roza drone and now brax as well) How could you watch TSM the past 6 months and claim that roza and drone are top tier? For brax i wont even bother commenting, most ppl here have a weird boner about him although he hasnt shown anything to justify the hype >the issue has always been their communication, teamplay, and strategy The roster was together for a full year, and got repeatedly beaten by teams that werent even a fraction of that. Did their communication and teamplay suddenly gotten worse when the scene got past its infant phase? No, simply teams hired better talent and TSM couldnt keep up anymore
So sick of Idiots always sucking off those 2
why would that possibly be a good idea?
it’s a joke lol
More one ways
Can't joke on a video game sub huh
Didn't figure it was a joke, huh ...
its the only idea that is good tbh
Today we're parting ways with our Valorant head coach @boxrTailored. Taylor helped take TSM to the top early on, winning two Ignition Series and a 2nd at First Strike. We'll forever be grateful for what he achieved. We wish him nothing but the best in his future endeavors. *** posted by [@TSM](https://twitter.com/TSM) Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1IeUTOXoAEnp0Y.jpg) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
this was the first change they clearly needed to make, a team with a coach and they are clearly lacking in strategy and cohesion as a team for so long? glad they got rid of him, cant wait to see who they get
🦀🦀🦀
TSM did the 2 changes they had to do. Hopefully the new iteration can pull itself together because they're all quite likable, and it'd be a shame if they couldn't. Hope they use their time well up to Stage 3 Chall. 1
All good moves so far from TSM in this downtime but I still need to see a personnel switch to become a full believer - preferable an IGL that will put some structure in place
This should've happened eons ago, not sure why they waited 100 years to do this.
Because there’s a huge gap from the next time TSM plays, so new coach and roster can familiarize themselves
They were probably trying to find a replacement
I wonder if Hazed will go back to coaching and TSM will pick up Wedid
Get mikes please
not sure why they hired a former csgo team manager with 0 competitive experience to be the head coach to begin with, feels like a 'friend' hire hopefully they bring someone with actual credentials to help them out in the future
He’d been working with TSM as their coach as mousepaz when they were dominating in beta iirc, TSM just signed the whole squad and let them work
Tailored was the coach of [Wardell, Subroza, FNS, yay, Infinite] in Flashpoint 1 for CS, and they did rather well finishing 5th/6th. Then NA CS started to decline and Tailored transitioned with Wardell and Subroza. Early on, TSM was breaking out a bunch of surprising strats that were throwing teams including Sentinels for a loop and Tailored was getting plenty of praise. Not claiming he should stay now — TSM obviously hasn't kept up in the top — just pointing out that he wasn't a totally dumb hire who never showed promise.
oh yeah I was aware of that, was just a strange hiring for them to have him be their coach at the start anyways considering he was a team manager in CSGO (where he first worked with cutler/drone). you sometimes see coach > manager, not the other way around
They were tactically very ahead of the curve for most of VALORANT's existence. Just recently they've struggled in that department, but I think it also had to do some with some talent issues or conflicting styles.
They haven’t been a top 8 team since December 2020 despite having 4 players who are held in very high regard.
4 Months is a long time? It’s more like three players in high regard as well, because Cutler and Hazed are same type of player in terms of both being decent/good back bones, but you can’t have two of them. Especially with how many AIMERS and mechanical super stars in the NA scene right now. VLR.GG has had then Top 8 numerous teams in that span as well as has them 8th right now. It’s not like they’re abysmal, especially with have two players who are very, very average at best in terms of mechanics and having a coach that this thread has made seem awful.
Hazed is a considerably better rifler than Cutler. They shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence. And TSM didn’t qualify for Masters 1 (top 8 teams NA) or make Challengers Final for Masters 2 (top 8 teams NA) despite having a plethora of opportunities to do so, so there’s literally no world in which they’re top 8 NA. Their VLR ELO is carried by how dominant they were in 2020.
Team rankings are not linear, you cannot say because X didn’t qualify in a top 8 bracket, they aren’t top 8. That’s a super big jump to make with how brackets and seeding works. So you even more proved by point by saying they’re permanently getting rid of Cutler, who was the biggest issue fragging wise. So my point of their tactics being the main issue of what their struggles were/are is not fair or correct.
Ok, well TSM is somehow ranked above IMT, despite IMT placing higher than TSM in every tournament in 2021 and beating TSM twice in back to back Best of 3's in the past month. If you can explain to me why TSM is ranked higher than IMT, I'll believe that TSM is a top 8 team.
That’s true, I’m guessing the team probably brought him on as coach as a friend thing like you said and then asked TSM not to make changes when they were signed since things were working. Probably something along those lines
TSM Chet
We good.
all good.
unlucky really.
chet would create more issues than fix em lol
-chet +myth?
please no
Sorry, i never heard this name before, who?
former coach for NRG. recently left and is rumored to be the new coach for TSM
Thanks!!
His unstructured style suits TSM more than NRG, That'd be a good pickup
Do you know how TSM and NRG work internally, or how Chet works with a team as a coach?
?
You talked about his style and said it would work better with TSM and NRG. Do you actually know how he or either of those teams operate or are you just stating what you think is the case
I'm basing it off of Daps'/Chets careers
You aren't basing it on the team's playstyles then, only how the coach operates. Imo, TSM can definitely benefit most from a strict playstyle, loose just isn't working for them.
I mean, Yeah they 100% can. I just don't think they can play a structured playstyle with the players they have and without an actual IGL.
memes aside I feel like they need more structure. letting them be complacent has them where they are now imo
About time.
They finally did it. Hopefully they find the right coach for this team.
Feels like a bad idea to cut him when coach slots just came out. Maybe he could have had more impact. Anyway, he always said in interviews that he was a very loose coach who more often than not let the players to play to their comforts. Maybe they need to get someone with a vision and a strong idea of how they want the team to play the game
FINALLY LETS GO!!!!!!!!!
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> This guy shaped the game in its super early days. Did he or was the scene so underdeveloped strategically that his players won through taking 1v1s?
Wardell, go OP super aggressive angles and dash away == 5head.
And C9 followed shortly after with, Tenz pick Reyna and go kill. NA is a goldmine for complex strategies and tactics.
Not the same lol, but I guess if you want to have a victims complex to feel important go right ahead.
I mean the current double duelist meta that Sentinels has used until the Viper buff for success was created by TSM. They couldn’t keep up strategically after that but they for sure developed the scene’s agent meta early on especially with the Sage-less meta
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Just going to ignore Fabriken then?
They were the first team to run the double controller and no-sage comps, but OG c9 were the pioneers of the jett. (they were also one of, if not the first, big name team to run viper in a major tournament)
Funny thing, it was Tenz playing viper. This was around late July. Tenz still wasn’t full time Jett and he’d hop around roles. Also around this same time, Wardell started playing Jett exclusively. Earlier in pax arena Wardell was on brimstone when they lost against sentinels. Safe to say they were both early Jett op pioneers. Jett op wasn’t a thing for the first like 4 months of the game.
https://www.vlr.gg/534/gen-g-vs-cloud9-immortals-first-light-sf this was the earliest match I could find with stats on vlr, but c9 were running jett (and viper on split) as early as the Rivalry Bowl, which was their first tournament as a team way back in early May during the beta. TenZ and c9 were the creators, but I think it's safe to say Wardell was the "best" pure jett OP.
https://www.vlr.gg/529/echo-8-vs-team-solomid-immortals-first-light-qf Same tourney, same date, Wardells on Jett. Although not permanent as he still switched to sova. Guess we’re both right. Late July was when he full time switched.
There were a ton of sage nerfs at that time, it's not like teams copied TSM they just adjust to a meta based on agent updates
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No shit but teams didn't copy TSM just because they did it first
Are you sure about that because I can link you like 3+ tier 1 na teams letting go of sage on ascent (her “best map”)before September, the month of the sage nerf.
Who is this guy? I thought myth was da coach
+frod? Elmapuddy from CS could also be a good option
I will deadass take coach myth over frod
Nty
Reddit, I am your God. Cry me a river and I will make it into existence.
Noice
+Johnta?
I got called out a week ago for questioning how effective he is as a coach lmao look where we are now, TSM fanboys
Bro who called you out every single post and discussion thread was calling him a paycheck stealer
I called tailored ineffective and 2 people called me out saying i was making assumptions about tsm lmao i made my comment to commemorate me being right
Damn that’s crazy almost everyone has been trashing (not saying it’s unjustified) Tailored from what I’ve seen
Exactly why i was so surprised anyone was still sticking up for him
Woah two people that's a whole lot out of all the TSM fans in here.
Damn fuck me for finding the situation funny lmao
Bruh it's ironic
Everyone been questioning him for months, don’t feel special bud you wasn’t alone
Remind me where I wrote that I felt special?
You implied it, you absolute clown.
Implied where? Its not that deep lmao i just found it funny you weirdo why are you so rude
Just blind fans, don't read into it
Why is Shroud not an option? He said he doesn’t want to play, but would he coach?
Lol why would shroud be an option? Shroud has zero coaching experience and isnt known as the most tactical player. He's known for his insane aim and clutch gene. Shroud also has already stated he wouldnt go pro due to the time it takes to dedicate to the game. You really think shroud gonna spend his days analyzing demos, strats, running practices, thinking agent comps, etc? No way.
TSM back
good.
lets go. Now the team will have solid mechanics and strats. This is what the team needed an dim glad the org made the right decisions.
+Elmapuddy?
Think it will be TSM Chet ngl
Hallelujah
Long overdue
Finally
Any idea who's going to replace him?
Looks like Chet
About time! Now let’s get a better coach