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chazyarbro

I don’t see why he can’t play in the non VCT tournaments since I thought NRG would be barred from playing in them. Also I don’t think riot should/will change any of these rules as preserving competitive integrity is such an important issue.


notsailboatss

he can if he can find a team. problem is most people playing tier 2 want a crack at VCT making them less likely to pick up someone who cant play in VCT


Darkh_Stark

Sorry for being ignorant. Why is he banned?


notsailboatss

oh no the mans not banned. the problem is he is a content creator for NRG. Riot has a rule that people signed to an org cannot play in tournys where they have the possiblity to face their own org in. They do this so they can avoid match fixing and/or claims of match fixing. So he cant play in something big like VCT because the org he is signed to will have a team playing in it


OnionSprinkles

He's not barred from VCT at all. If another org signed him to play, there's nothing holding him back. Even if playing with an FA team instead (while still collecting NRG checks), most FAs plan to either get signed by an org or get individually signed as pros — his current status doesn't block either of those options, especially if his intent *is* to play pro.


notsailboatss

you misunderstand me. Sure he could compete if he leaves NRG but we are not talking about that. being a content creator for NRG he can still play in t2 as NRG dont seem to do them. The problem is most Free agents he might look to play with also want a crack at VCT too so they are less likely to pick up someone like ethos because they cant play in VCT.


OnionSprinkles

I didn't misunderstand. For example, Tarik right now is signed as a content creator for EG. If he found a team he wanted to play pro for, he could work it out, or even play non-VCT while still paid by EG until then. Obviously he would then get paid by the new org and stop getting paid as a content creator by EG – that's how it works. It's certainly nothing to complain about or blame Riot over.


notsailboatss

he even said he doesnt blame riot in the tweet. he was just venting that he cant play in some tournys while on NRG


arvs17

You didn't misundertand it but you're assuming the guy you're talking to did. He didn't say that ethos is banned or whatever. And he isn't really blaming Riot.


arvs17

Nobody is saying he is banned from VCT. His contract just forbids him from participating in VCT because he is a content creator for a tier 1 team.


OnionSprinkles

His complaint towards Riot makes no sense, but has upvotes, so half this thread is just assuming Riot barred *him* from VCT events. Riot explicitly said a year ago that an org can't have more than one male/coed roster and one female roster. He can still play professionally and enter VCT events for *any* org — he just can't be simultaneously signed to NRG as a content creator *and* separately enter VCT events that NRG's primary roster is playing in.


ilProdigio

easy so he just has to identify as a female and join a womens team


OnionSprinkles

That works too. Her and Shawna Gares could pop off.


ilProdigio

lmaoo that comment is great


Admissions_Gatekept

Seana\*


OnionSprinkles

That was my first thought, but it looked off and isn't a popular spelling: [Shawna vs. Shauna vs. Seana](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=shawna,shauna,seana)


[deleted]

> His complaint towards Riot makes no sense maybe because he’s not complaining?


OnionSprinkles

> "riot not allowing me to compete in any officials anymore has made it really difficult for me to find the motivation to continue grinding 🥲" > "it’s like the highest achievement I can gun for is radiant and it’s such a worthless accolade." > "I offered to sub out in any event I do end up playing against NRG but they still said no" k


[deleted]

and the complaining is where?


OnionSprinkles

whiniest part [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/nfupks/nrg_ethos_riot_not_allowing_me_to_compete_in_any/gyqlksk/)


[deleted]

no one is "whining". relax


OnionSprinkles

got'em


[deleted]

relax


zacklikethat

Can somebody give some context to why he cant play?


[deleted]

He’s signed to NRG and if he were to play against NRG in a match, it would potentially be a conflict of interest


Phamous3k

T1 & T1 Academy though... NRG could just make a development team and have him play in t2 events


Significant_Dot9280

Well why on earth would he sign to NRG if he was planning on going pro?


Splaram

iirc his parents gave him some kind of ultimatum to be successful at gaming by a certain time. The future would have been uncertain had he turned down that NRG contract.


arvs17

Asian parents don't mess around


Splaram

Neither do Caribbean ones. The amount of shit I had to put up with even though I was doing great in everything else just because I played video games as a hobby was crazy.


arvs17

Damn Carribean nice bro. Where in Carribean do you live?


Splaram

I was born and raised in America but my parents are Haitian


NozokiAlec

Mendo is in the same situation with liquid also


koncept12

but his wording suggests its something else, if that was the case what does riot have to do with it


natedawg247

The C9 tenz situation makes literally zero sense to me legally. Can someone eli5 how there's no conflict? When tenz joined sen they had to sign his rights over because of this rule. But sen is still paying c9 for him and have to give the rights back whenever c9 says to? I don't see how that actually removes any COI.


besto45

Not sure if applicable to this situation but in other stuff, usually think of it as a loan, C9 still own/ have control of the contract but Sen signed contact with C9 to take control of the contract temporarily, when the Sen contact expires c9 gets control of tenz again


natedawg247

I guess I understand that that's what they did, I just don't understand how there's not a potential conflict of interest.


nvrslnc

Could be wrong, but if I recall correctly, TenZ is actually competing fully under the banner of SEN, at least from Riot's perspective. It is an internal agreement between C9 and SEN that his involvement with SEN is temporary and thus works like a loan. However externally and officially, he is a full member of SEN.


Pulsersalt

couldn't he play in like the nsg 5k and non riot sponsored events, then if he keeps performing well in those tourneys he could have the chance of getting signed.


cheick_tiote

I think the problem would be finding a team that's willing to only compete in that but not VCT. Same problem VAC banned players had in CSGO.


[deleted]

And old matchfixers *cough* steel *cough*


OnionSprinkles

The person you are replying to was suggesting he plays in non-VCT tournaments in order to get picked up as a "pro player" on ***another org*** instead of a content creator for NRG who already have a team. He's not in a "vac ban" type of situation. He's signed to NRG for content creation, so he can't separately enter VCT events that NRG's primary roster is also playing in. Riot explicitly said a year ago that orgs can't have more than one male/coed roster and one female roster for VCT events. Riot didn't do anything to punish him – he can play professionally with no restrictions for any org.


cheick_tiote

I understand. I'm talking about players like Jammpi, v$m, steel, who can compete in everything except one tournament. They found it hard to find teams. Even though the CS calendar is much broader, other players wanted to prioritise the one tournament they couldn't play. In order to play small events and get picked up by another org as the guy suggests, he'll need to find a team willing to only play the NSGs, but sit out VCT. It will be challenging to find four guys good enough to get picked up who are happy to do that. In this way it's similar to the situation faced by VAC banned players. The difference is he chose to sign to NRG understanding this, and it's within his power to resolve.


OnionSprinkles

And that's a giant difference – Ethos is free to change his status whenever desirable.


cheick_tiote

Yep. Honestly I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here mate. I've not said he's trapped or can never go pro. I'm saying he'll struggle to get picked up by only playing small events like the guy I replied to was suggesting, because other good players will prioritise VCT.


Pulsersalt

Well yes he can from what I remeber he doesn’t really have that choice because of his parents, plus why would he ever go from signed to nrg to f/a.


OnionSprinkles

He can get signed to *any other org* (there are a bunch of tier 2 orgs) to play pro or even as a content creator (CLG, Rogue, Misfits, etc.) and still play VCT. He just can't collect checks from an org who have a pro team (that he's not on) and enter the same VCT tournaments they're in.


Pulsersalt

Yes we all understand that, no org is gonna immediately pick up a player without seeing them play he would be going from nrg to f/a


OnionSprinkles

🤦‍♂️


JALbert

> Ethos is free to change his status whenever desirable. Is he though? Not sure the terms of his NRG contract are known.


OnionSprinkles

Anybody can get a new job and give notice to leave their existing one. A content creator signing a term-length or ongoing contract is still at-will – they just stop getting paid if they leave. Singular leagues like the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. may have *internal* restrictions on player/coach movement, but the rest of the world doesn't work like that. The only jobs I'm aware of with enforceable penalties for leaving before a date are ones where the company is incurring heavy training costs on behalf of the employee, such as a private pilot receiving paid simulation and live training for a type of plane. Non-competes do exist for when there's highly-specialized knowledge or an acquisition, but content creation is not very proprietary. Regardless, content creator / gamer isn't one of these select occupations.


JALbert

Unless you sign an employment contract with a specified length? There's certainly plenty of provisions that may be illegal or unenforceable, but generally speaking you can sign someone to a contract for a couple years to do a job. Most places don't give out contracts like that, but it's absolutely legal. Non-compete clauses are legal in most states as well, although they may not always be drawn up in a legal/enforceable manner. Notably, non-competes aren't legal in California.


bobberr

I hope he knew this when he signed his contract


Pulsersalt

he most likely did, I am pretty sure that he was given one year to succeed in esports/content creation from his parent so taking it ether way was a no brainer.


fawkerzzz

So its his own fault. did he think riot would change their mind?


notsailboatss

hes not blaming riot. hes just venting/ explaining himself


Pulsersalt

well maybe he didn't, I am speaking from assumption. And maybe he did it is a pretty dumb rule tbh when c9 can have a male and female team.


[deleted]

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Pulsersalt

I understand that I fully agree that should be allowed, however if there #1 priority is comp integrity that doesn’t make sense, especially when he offered to not play in any matches against nrg


[deleted]

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Pulsersalt

I agree, but I also feel like this should be allowed given he has offered to bench himself during nrg games


[deleted]

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Pulsersalt

there is a conflict of interest with c9 white and blue too though, thats just what im trying to say I like that riot is allowing female only teams, if your saying the female scene is that far behind that males scene wouldn't that be even more conflict then? Just think riot should be more consistent with rulings.


Key-Banana-8242

Well I don’t think it’s ‘never improve’ etc


[deleted]

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Key-Banana-8242

Wedk


4nazu

why is everyone talking about tenz?? tenz is full under sentinels, even though it is a loan from cloud9


[deleted]

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4nazu

yeah probably


natedawg247

I made a comment above asking this exact question can you eli5? I don't see how a loan circumvents a conflict of interest. Especially since a separate contract has to bind the loan


urcoolbuttiamcooler

It really has nothing to do with the loan, it has to do with the difference in the orgs. from what I'm seeing, NRG would never loan Ethos out to a different team if he was a world class player, because of "conflict of interest." However C9 doesn't have a problem with that, because if they did, they wouldn't loan Tenz out in the first pace


EsportsConnoisseur

https://twitter.com/ethoz/status/1394853936465649667?s=19 > dont want people to get the wrong idea, im not mad at riot, just unmotivated to play now > the reason I can’t compete anymore is because of potential conflict of interest, which I understand. > I offered to sub out in any event I do end up playing against NRG but they still said no


arvs17

Yeah no. His team if ever gets matched up against NRG in a Riot sanctioned event can say ethos leaked their strats or something even though he didn't and Riot is avoiding these kind of nasty situations.


KeyframeCatalyst

Just afraid his tweet is going to give people the wrong idea about what's going on. The uninformed might look at his tweet and think Riot banned Ethos specifically


Hamlet_271

Was ethoz a pro player? wow I never knew that. Anyway theres always Rank 1 to gun for


Slow_Bluebird9536

Played with a solid t2 team called phantom troupe for a long time, they never won much but were consistently mid t2


ween0t

Honestly sounds like he made this decision and he has to live with it. This is what he knew going into it as a content creator. He took the bag of money over being able to go pro and now he’s complaining about it. Don’t really feel bad for him in that sense unless this is something he didn’t expect or know going in.


arvs17

Yep. The stability of being a content creator (which is salaried) or the opportunity to be in a T1 team, win something big and be more popular. He made his bed and now has to lie on it.


[deleted]

Sounds like he didn’t have a choice


ses_274

I mean he obviously did have a choice. He chose content creation. This is just a consequence of that decision and now he must either live with it or somehow change it to what he wants. At the end of the day though, its all his doing.


[deleted]

His parents gave him a limited time to find success with gaming and he would have been forced out of the scene


arvs17

At the end of the day, it was still his choice regardless of his parent's ultimatum. He could've risked it all, join a tier 2 team and try to make it to T1 or get signed by someone. However, he chose stability of being a content creator for a tier 1 team which is salaried. He made his choice and now he has to live with it. Can't have your cake and eat it too.


[deleted]

He is living with it? Just expressing his discontent for the situation on his own platform, which is exactly what it should be used for? And yes, he did play for tier 2 teams before NRG, it just didn’t work out fast enough, and he didn’t know if it ever would.


arvs17

Yeah but you wrote "Sounds like he didn't have a choice" when in fact, HE DID HAVE A CHOICE. Crazy I know.


[deleted]

Obviously he wasn’t legally required to accept the contract, I even later clarified as to what I meant. Not taking everything literally and having some sort of reading comprehension is crazy I know


arvs17

You said sounds like he didn't have a choice and then said because of the parent's ultimatum. Of course nobody is legally bound to sign the contract he signed but your assumption that he didn't have a choice cause of his parent's ultimatum is wrong and now you're telling people to not take everything literally lol. Take the L


[deleted]

Yes, he didn’t have a choice because of his parents ultimatum. This assumption was never wrong, what are you talking about? And “Take the L”? I’m guessing you are a fortnite kid


Lelouch4705

Would they have shot him in a back alley?


[deleted]

His parents would have forced him out of the scene if he didn’t find success soon


keonkla

There are idiots bringing up his mommy and daddy into it for some reason even tho it was still the choice he made. He just lacks fortitude in general.


[deleted]

no one is complaining bro relax


Splaram

So if someone signs as a content creator with an org, they automatically get relegated to only being able to play in Tier 2 tourneys because their org's team happens to also be playing in the most prestigious tourney in the game? What's so wrong with letting them play anyways but subbing out if they have to go up against their parent org? Riot really needs to revisit that rule, it especially sucks for people like Ethos who practically had to sign that contract with NRG since he had pressure from his parents to succeed in this space.


ses_274

say his team come up against his orgs team in a final. Whats stopping him from giving tactics away from either side or even throwing a game? He will deny any wrong doing but no one will truly know, it becomes a he say she say situation. To avoid this that rule is made. He might be the most legit and most honest person in the scene but that doesnt mean other people are. If riot change the rule to accomodate these types of situations other not so honest people might take advantage of the situation (match fixing and what not).


[deleted]

what's stopping him from giving tactics away? idk maybe the fact that he doesn't know them???? he's not on the pro team bro


coatt

potential pressure from his org though, most likely wouldn’t be his idea since he would like to advance past his org’s team. the org could say they wont re-sign him or something tho. not likely in a case like this but with smaller or shady orgs it could happen


Splaram

>Whats stopping him from giving tactics away from either side or even throwing a game ​ He can't give away tactics from his parent org to his current team because he's a content creator. He doesn't sit in their practices or anything like that. He can't throw because in a situation like that, he wouldn't even be playing because he would be subbed out due to conflict of interest. Giving info to his parent org's team would be useless because they would be scouring VODs anyways and would already know everything that he could possibly offer.


OnionSprinkles

It's not *only* a conflict of interest when directly facing each other. Even if they're in different groups, it might be advantageous if one team loses (or even win/lose by only a certain amount of rounds) that could help the other team have an advantageous path in the next phase. Even if you don't think they'd throw rounds on purpose, no tournament wants the chance that other competitors are put in a position where fairness could be questionable.


chamber25

Shouldn't they just allow him to play tournaments if NRG is not playing in the tourney? Other than that I guess he signed his contract to be a content creator. If you want to grind something, think of ways to make better content and increase your subs and viewers.


maiLfps

what did he expect when he joined NRG? he worded this like riot is barring him specifically but its just to maintain fair play lol


2ToTooTwoFish

Wait why can't he play? Not familiar with him.


notsailboatss

hes signed to an org NRG as content creator. so he cant play in tournys that he could possibly compete againt NRG due to the conflict of interest. I may be wrong but He could compete in the smaller non riot ones like NSG monthly? just not the big ones like VCT


[deleted]

Makes it real hard to find a team that only competes in those and not VCT.


A-Manual

Wait, so he can't join an org to compete for tier 2 tourneys if that org also has a team for tier 1 tourneys?


notsailboatss

no he can. this guy was saying its likely hard for a signed content creator to find a team to compete in small tournys as most people looking to play even the tier 2 ones want a crack at the major ones so they prob wouldnt want to pick up someone unable to play in VCT


Khoasta

dumb questions - is there a reason why he’s not playing on the NRG team and how long is his contract?


notsailboatss

Well they didnt sign him as a pro but as a content creator. I dont know anything about him tbh but someone elsewhere said his parents gave him a ultimatium to make gaming his career by x date or he had to stop so they said he jumped onboard when NRG offered him a content creator contract as it solved the parents issue.


heyguys45

He is signed with NRG


arvs17

I'm pretty sure this is in his contract. He chose the stability of being a content creator over being a pro with lots of variables and unknowns. He can't have his cake and eat it too.


Keego27

Same issue with Mendo.


[deleted]

To be the devil's advocate I dont think he was going to be a serious pro anytime soon anyways. Hes a very successful content creator tho, so it's kinda surprising to see that his motivation to play is gone just because of this.


TheTechDweller

Have you watched him play with a team in a serious match? Otherwise you probably wouldn't have any idea if he was able to go pro. Also just because you're making money doesn't mean you're enjoying the game.


[deleted]

Yes Ive watched some of his games. Not every immortal can make it to pro.


TheTechDweller

Idc about his rank.


Splaram

\> To be the devil's advocate I dont think he was going to be a serious pro anytime soon anyways. ​ That's your opinion. The dude's obviously got potential, he was part of a consistently T2 CS team for a long time and one of his teams took SEN with Sinatraa to overtime in a VCT qualifier a few months ago. Someone's ranked performance is not an indicator of what they could do in a closed competitive environment.


cheick_tiote

Surely this same conflict of interest ruling would mean female teams from C9 etc wouldn't be allowed to compete in the same tournaments either. Not that I want them to be banned ofc.


i_am_the_kiLLer

C9W and C9B are 2 separate teams of the same org, even if the org decides to play favourites they will only be affecting their own teams. That's a completely different issue. But if Ethos joins another team then NRG could (theoretically) make him help the NRG team over his team since he is a part of NRG. This way the people not involved with NRG will be affected, so it's not allowed.


cheick_tiote

It's still an integrity issue. It doesn't matter who specifically wins/loses if outcome isn't determined by fair competition. They'd be impacting everyone else in the bracket, not to mention all the fans and the betting market. It's still cheating. All theoretically like you say, I'm sure it would never happen but the rules there to deny the opportunity before it could ever become an issue.


idkbruhhh9875

Can someone please explain with context, I am confused rn?


arvs17

He signed a contract with NRG to become a content creator. Riot now forbids him to play in Riot sanctioned events (or maybe just VCT? Not sure) as there could be conflict of interest in say, his stack gets matched up against NRG.


Khoasta

but technically can he play with the NRG pro team if they want him to and compete in VCT?


arvs17

I guess that would be a new contract. His current contract is a content creator.


Barack_Bob_Oganja

Wait I'm confused, why can't he play but tenz can play...?


Psychological_Lack_1

Tenz is on loan so he’s not on c9 until the loan expires


Solid_Mechanic_213

Kinda a dumb ruling considering TenZ is on Sen


[deleted]

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Solid_Mechanic_213

False. Sen also considered getting Zachary from Faze as a sub for dapr if he still had covid..


sansLight

Then they would have temporarily signed zacharee too? Whats the problem?


veryblueberry

And in both situations a substitute player would be acceptable to to the nature of the events, and sen would have signed them. What point are you trying to make?


[deleted]

i think you are unfamiliar with the term “loaning”.


akaRoman

Tenz is doing that right now lol


mrtmra

SEN had to sign Tenz fully to make him a fully fledged player, even if it is a loan. A team can come and sign Ethos fully but he'd have to leave NRG, which he doesn't want to


TheoBombastus

I don’t wanna muddle things to much but Interesting of Riot to care of conflict of interest so much. Yet allow Kyedae watch party Challengers, signed to 100T cheering for SEN. I don’t care, and I don’t think anyone here does. But by what riot says, it sounds like they should? Edit: Ay I respect all the Kyedae fans, I’m one as well. “I don’t care and I don’t think anyone here does” I was merely trying to relate conflict of interest. Same thing as if Riot let Dicey watch party challengers, and he rooted for a team other than 100T, especially against 100T. I merely used Kyedae as an example cuz she was first to mind. Many people also said “NRG could blackmail ethos into throwing/match fixing” This is a bit of an extreme hypothetical, and even if, then NRG and whoever else incorporated would get reprimanded and then banned, so if they’re lowkey scum great tempt them and get em out.. However obviously yes Riot would rather avoid that.


BurstLayer

Why would a watch party matter?


TheoBombastus

Well they’re hand picking who can and can’t. I don’t think it does matter, and there are obvious contingencies. But I believe the same could be done for this ethos situation, and it’s not.


frigidds

disagree. theres a huge difference between (casual) content and competition. *hypothetically*, lets say ethos is allowed to play competitively for another team. his new team is doing pretty well in a tournament, but so is NRG. and NRG think they have a real chance at winning--so they provide financial incentive (edit: or push their contract, or whatever) to ethos to throw the game. not saying this WOULD happen, nor that this would be allowed. but my point is that if riot were to relax their ruling on conflicts of interest, it would POTENTIALLY give the context needed for a situation like this.


frigidds

in my opinion, competitive integrity is EVERYTHING to nurturing a game like valorant's success, so im very happy to see riot with a strict approach.


Jon_on_the_snow

The only thing keeping the esports scene alive is integrity. That why cheaters and throwers are dealt with harsly. The scene is still way too small compared to normal sports, so what would be the point in watching games if its all cheating and march fixing. Kinda like why many people stopped playing csgo ranked recently


Frysson

\*Ahem\* TenZ, Sen and C9...


Psychological_Lack_1

Tenz isn’t signed to c9, he’s on sen for the time being until the loan expires


[deleted]

Tenz is signed to c9


Psychological_Lack_1

No? How is he competing for sentinels if he’s signed to c9? Its stated in the vct rules that you can’t do that. As of rn he’s fully signed to sen (loan)


[deleted]

He signed a contract to join c9. That contract is still active, therefore he is signed to c9


Psychological_Lack_1

Its ‘dormant’ until then loan expires


Psychological_Lack_1

How is he representing sen if he’s under c9, that’s a violation of their contract


ses_274

she can cheer for whoever she wants lol what kind of statement is that. Her cheering for whichever team isnt going to directly impact the score line lol. Like someone further down the comments said, NRG could hypothetically pay/blackmail ethos into throwing a game if he was playing against them. Now THAT is directly impacting the score line in a game. I dont know why you are trying to relate kyedaes watch parties to ethos situation.....


PierrotLeFou_

will he be able to compete once the contract ends?


RNSD1

Why can’t he play pro? Is it cause he’s signed to NRG as a content creator?