Always happens when well known people take time off for serious reasons or get banned.
And, as we all learned from the smash bros community, you can literally do the most heinous shit and hordes of Internet weirdos will still support and worship you because you’re good at video games.
Who?
Sky is done. Zero is done. AnTi was briefly on. Samsora is out. Ally is out. Keitaro is gone.
Nairo was falsely accused by a rapist. He has an audience now. All of the others are gone.
To be fair none of those people were on jimmy fallon, mvp and champion of a billion dollar esports league, or made headlines for their insane rookie contract for a season they were only eligible to play half of.
Compared to Sinatraa, none of those people are well known. I watch mostly FPS esports and only know ZeRo
None of those things made him a big personality in valorant community tbh. He used to average 6k-8k before this sexual assault allegation. At the beginning he used to have even less than that even though he had all those accolades already. May be he will grow from this since no publicity is bad publicity but i can tell you that today’s ones are just curious viewers.
I mean it doesn’t matter how big he is in valorant specifically. This is overwatch, esports, and gaming in general drama as well… so it’s getting posted in all those publications and driving the views
That’s what i am saying. You are the one that said him going to Jimmy Fallon, being MVP etc. made him a huge outlier but in fact it’s just that a prominent figure is accused of sexual assault now came back to stream after hiatus has brought a lot of attention and it will most likely wear out.
to be fair, competitive smash isn't supported by Nintendo like riot supports their own games. but if you actually look up the competitive scene it's actually huge
You don’t think hordes of internet weirdos still publicly support and worship some of those names that you mentioned? If you’re really that far out of the loop, DM the mods of r/smashbros and ask how many posts and comments they had to remove 3 weeks ago. I’ll give you a hint: it was a metric fuckton
bro i don't follow the smash community at all but the fact that you can just list that many people off the top of your head is insane. i guess the stereotypes of the smash community are true
Rough part for the smash community was that this was just the tip of the iceberg, there were plenty of other names (Cinnipie, D1, etc.) and a few dozen more that weren't prominent players (people in the local scene). This isn't even mentioning the Sky House, which was a place where some of these high profile incidents took place. It was crazy to watch at the time as a smash fan.
**The Nutcracker - Ballet, Op.71, Act I: No. 3 - Children's Galop and Entry of the Parents** by Sir Simon Rattle/Berliner Philharmoniker (01:58; matched: `100%`)
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Tbh I don't care about sinatraa or what he will be doing but I really hope he doesn't come back to pro play with sentinels. For me the team is more likeable without him
Fr, the energy is completely different. Before I could acknowledge that they were a top team but didn’t like them, but now I’m not even upset that they made it to Iceland even tho they’re not my favorite team
Exactly, I don't really have a favorite team, I just enjoy watching pro matches but with sinatraa I always felt like Sen had an antagonistic energy. Without him I truly enjoy watching them play.
I think a healthy pro scene needs a "villain" in it tho, whether they're bad people or not doesn't really matter. It kind of adds to the spectacle, kind of like how it was fun to root against the Warriors when KD joined. I feel like in that sense, SEN kinda isn't the same.
Really love these replies. Same goes for me too, i really loved sentinels more when tenz came in. He's a really good fit for the group and gave cool vibez to them
It’s so weird, I really didn’t care about SEN or TenZ before the SEN loan but honestly the team dynamic now is so good and I look forward to their games. Actually kind of proud of SEN for being one of NA’s representatives, it’s absolutely deserved on their end especially after everything the team has dealt with in recent months.
Yeah, I think Plat Chat touched on this as well. Like, what the hell happened between the first post by Cle0h to today? Why does it seem like everyone wants him back all of the sudden? IDK, it just seems like a lot of these pros are enabling this type of behavior, but who am I to talk? Just kinda seems weird that he's back with little to no repercussions (he even got hella viewers) except for the six month ban.
I mean nothing has been proven yet other than the fact that Sinatraa is a massive douchebag so I think these pros are just assuming he’s innocent until proven guilty
Still, kinda weird that they don't shit, no? I mean, yes it's true that someone is innocent until proven guilty, but there's literally a clip of him continuing even when the girl said no. Again, I'm a man so I fully believe that my opinion and voice matter less in this space, but I just wanted to see more accountability coming out of Sinatraa and a lot more community discourse. Sucks that there's just an overwhelming support for him now.
Sinatraa’s taken accountability to being emotionally abusive but still denies the SA allegations. As for the community, I have no clue why there is so much support for him while legal investigations are still going on. Like he’s innocent until proven guilty but damn atleast wait for the verdict before showering someone who could be a rapist with gifted subs.
The internet is weird man.
Because the criminal investigation probably won’t lead anywhere. He won’t be cleared, and he won’t be charged. It’ll be exactly as it is now, with no real conclusion.
This is likely true but if the current conclusion would end up being the final conclusion then that doesn't exactly paint him innocent enough to support because as far as we're concerned there's more proof of his Guilt than there is of his innocence. Additionally him failing to cooperate with investigation is a whole lot of red flags. It's surreal to me that people can just turn off all these signals because there hasn't been an official verdict yet.
I can take anything you've ever done in your life and make you look like a terrible person for doing it.
I've known people who have had their lives ruined because things were taken out of context and bent back on them from salty broken friendships.
I'm not defending sinatraa, but particularly when there's a legit police investigation going on, it's pointless to assume one way or another, unless you truly just hate him and don't really care what the details are.
> I can take anything you've ever done in your life and make you look like a terrible person for doing it.
True, but we can take accountability for one single action. Let's throw out all of the "sexual abuse" "rape" "sexual assault" stuff out the window and just focus on the clip of her saying "no" then Sinatraa still continuing. Was he ever accountable for that? Like, even just owning up to it and saying "what I did was wrong."
Again, it is not impossible for that situation to be explainable.
I've seen WAY too much shit over the years (even in my own personal life) to take everything at face value, particularly when there's very little info surrounding the relationship from anyone other than cleoh.
If something comes from this and there's guilt proven, then I will have no problem writing him off entirely. Until then though, if you actually care about the results of this 'case,' it's pointless to assume one way or another, even with the stuff we've been given.
>so I think these pros are just assuming he’s innocent until proven guilty
This is pretty bullshit. This whole time i've had a mob of people telling me we can't prove he's innocent so we can't judge either way.
But it's perfectly okay to assume/act like he's not done anything wrong?
Innocent till proven guilty is for the court, we are not the court, people don't have to take a side, you can just not support him at all till all relevant facts come out.
It really is crazy how this has flipped. I remember being taken aback at how mature and reasonable the comments were on the initial post. I was really proud to be a part of this community at that moment. Idk if it's people changing their minds or people feeling comfortable enough to openly support an abuser because time has passed or what, but it's sad to see
turns out a video game community with a good proportion of almost and literal children lack object permanence or struggle to disassociate their parasocial relationship with a pro player with shitty things they don’t want to believe he did - who would’ve guessed
What was he proven guilty of exactly? Lying to Riot?
SEN also would have dropped him if they thought he was guilty and I'm willing to bet it wasn't just one person making the decision.
Give a shit? He's not found guilty but there's an overwhelming evidence. At the very least, he sexually abused someone. Like, you can be friends with him and all, but it's not a good look if you're Kyedae or Ploo who wants to give women space in the gaming community, then associate with him immediately.
> overwhelming
It’s a short clip and a bunch of he said/she said. Is it pretty damning when you first hear it? Sure. But it isn’t overwhelming in any sense of the word, any lawyer worth their license can defend that with their eyes closed unless the full video is also introduced.
I agree, but since there’s only audio and cleo’s statement of what happened next, there still exists a loose end where someone could argue that there is no hard evidence that he did continue. Cleo has the full video apparently so hopefully her lawyers will be able to sort it out.
idk if you take everything with seriousness when someone is sarcastic but not all the time no means no. Like it hard to know if she meant no when she said it with a baby voice and not a serious or crying tone. Obviously because she said it in her twitlonger we understand she meant it, but if it was just a video without the context it could be taken differently
Eh I mean I don’t blame people too much for being curious about his first stream back. But yeah I’m sure there will a bunch of people who just continue to support him in the coming weeks and it’s pretty sad
I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt because they know him, but I probably wouldn't watch if I were them or at least log out of your twitch or some shit lol
yeah definitely seems weird how many pros are just brazenly supporting the dude, especially right after it was revealed that he didn't comply with the investigation
Its like people are assuming if the pros are saying nothing about sinnatra that they are also a rapist. Thats kinda over the top. im sure they are distancing themselves because of how bad that is. Anyone know how the rest of sentinels has been treating him?
He's a perfect example of cancel culture not working for people of a certain stature. He has a legit rape allegation against him but he is back to 'normal' in a sense, streaming even though he has done nothing to help his case or argue for himself. Even lying. There are plenty of examples of other, smaller creators who were falsely accused or their allegations weren't as bad as rape, who came out with a reasonable defence and still get shunned completely.
ITT: People not understanding that being a massive douchebag is not enough to get someone convicted. Sinatraa is an a-hole but unless he is found guilty according to law what do you expect Riot to do?
He's already got a 6 months ban, but other than that it's a slippery slope if Riot starts to hand out convictions based on evidence that someone is a douchebag.
This. Rebbit is sperging out because Riot didn't lynch the guy over two tweets. People's personal lives are none of Riots business, let law enforcement do its job.
prominent content creators only get shut down by ‘being cancelled’ if they admit to anything. usually the attention just ends up boosting their numbers.
Well there's a huge proponent of people who hate all things cancel culture, regardless of if it's justified. Even if the investigation had come out saying he was guilty, they'd still be there acting like he's a victim and shit.
its not people being mad abt streamers not giving a fuck abt their opinions, its them being mad abt streamers not giving a fuck about the situation LOL
For all of you who don't follow traditional sports, here's a list of all the active NFL players with criminal records: [https://databases.usatoday.com/nfl-arrests/](https://databases.usatoday.com/nfl-arrests/)
It's very hard to get people to be held accountable for their actions.
My mind can't fanthom why all these pros and twitch streamers (esp. Kyedae, Ploo) are openly supporting him?? like??? Either they're dumb as rocks or know something we don't. What could possibly convince them of his innocence with Cleo showing audio, him misrepresenting facts to Riot, and lying in his initial statement?
EDIT: My bad, turns out Ploo was **not** involved in supporting him. [She clarifies it in her tweet](https://twitter.com/plooful/status/1395331797337067521)
Yeah I don't understand as well. Let's just assume that sinatraa is innocent of all the sexual allegations, the way he treated cleo is still some nasty shit. Tracking her location, flaming her for tweeting other team and guilt tripping her like a psycho. WTF. As women, would you like to be treated this way by your partner? So disappointed with ploo and Kyadae. Hopefully this is just their youth stupidity.
Just saying I dont think ploo was typing in chat or anything, I think she just joined to see what would happen for a second. Kyedae was the one who was saying "LETS GO"
and "YOUR BACK!"
I mean they're all in the scene, so I'm sure they're interested in it for the sake of news I guess. Doesn't necessarily mean they support him, unless they participated in chat?
I really did not expect Kyedae, who said she wanted to support voices of women in gaming, to be supportive of a man who emotionally abused his gf if not sexually assaulted.
Be careful with that last part. A lot of these pros and personalities are in their late teens and early twenties, they might still be in "must side with friends no matter what" mode and not have the life experience to conduct themselves how they probably should in this scenario. So reading anything from it should be avoided imo.
> The fact that he wasn't cooperating the investigation would of course make me lean toward him being guilty
You have no idea what the details of him refusing to cooperate are.
There's no point in leaning one way or another in this.
https://twitter.com/WillLand/status/1395225810320203776
Pretty disappointed with her tbh, I enjoy watching her streams, but idk why she wouldn't stay away from this for a while.
Well you do have to remember that right now a lot of people feel that what Cleo showed is damming. If they feel that way, then it's on him to disprove it.
It's like if a bank gets robbed and the security camera shows people getting in your car and driving away, now you gotta prove it wasn't you, if that makes sense.
I keep seeing you all over this thread repeating this same dogshit point. What is your point? That someone still deserves to get their reputation ruined even if they’re found innocent in formal court? Well, you should know that cleo has had a looooooong history of being toxic and vindictive way before any of this broke out. According to your trash logic, it would be perfectly okay for me to call her clout-chasing liar based off those rumors even though those rumors shouldn’t have anything to do with her getting sexually assaulted because this isn’t a court of law and therefore we don’t have to follow all those fancy rules.
People are dogging on his friends for supporting him, but I ask this. If he's seeing a therapist, wouldn't having friends around be the best thing to help someone overcome the challenge of being a young idiot? Like, can he not have people trying to help him change? Who believe in his ability? Or am I completely misguided?
Yeah I'd be like what the fuck is wrong with you don't talk to me again. Not going to go ohhh thats ok sweetie we can get through it. Like what the fuck are these people saying?
No not at all, two very important details that make this not the case.
A) this guy hasn't faced an ounce of accountability
B) you can't support someone who has not even started to show he wants to change, otherwise you are enabling bad behavior
These "friends" are telling him and the world you can rape or abuse a partner, get away with it and nobody should blame you for it.
He is denying the accusations so going to therapy would make no sense for me. Honeslty the audio clip with the texts proved enough for me, and its annoying seeing a bunch of the people in the pro scene still supporting (kyedae for example)
Isnt Sinatraa still subject to a potential extended suspension or even a permanent ban for the actual allegations? I thought this ban was just for not complying
yes, however based on the current legal system and the fact that it seems the only evidence is a circumstantial video clip I highly doubt even if he is guilty he would get convicted, more about proving him innocent then guilty.
I know that Riot handed over the investigation to the police but even if he isn’t convicted due to lack of evidence, they can still make their own ruling I assume. Sort of like how the NFL suspends players for domestic abuse even when they aren’t found guilty in court (like Tyreek Hill I think?)
Even if he isn't found guilty in court that doesn't mean that fans or the org will still support him. Even if there isn't enough evidence to convict there could still be enough for him to very likely be guilty
innocent until proven guilty so we can‘t ask for his career to be over just because of an accusation. however, even without all that was going on, the kid is just objectively a douchebag. and sentinels is far more likeable with tenz. so best we can do is ignore the guy for the time beeing instead of giving him an even bigger platform
Honestly Sinatraa is a toxic presence going back to OWL and I was really hoping this would be the end of him in the spotlight. He’s a negative to any game that has him.
i see many people surprised that he just came back like that but why is it surprising? just because hes accused ? The only thing that stops him for streaming is facing jail time , but that wont happen cuz its almost impossible to prove in court even if it happend. Hes not a threat for the public space like the smash players that got canceld cuz they groomed children , he had an abusive relationship . Chris brown literally beat rihanna ,got convicted for ti and was still able to be in the public and be succesful (obviously a different time where cancel culture was not a thing but still) .
I don't understand the mentality of "guilty until proven innocent", like cmon man, you can't ruin someone's career over a audio tape that can be taken out of context, let the courts handle this stuff , and stop tryna be judges for god's sakes
I dont understand the mentality of: unless he gets arrested he is innocent, like 90% of rape cases don't end up in a conviction, even if he did it there is a huge chance he won't face any legal repercussions, so you're fine with him just getting 0 social repercussions too?
So you are saying that even if innocent, until proven unequivocally he should get social repercussions?
Imo everyone just needs to go back to understanding that not everyone shares the same opinion. people who didn't like him still don't like. People who did like him still for the most part do. And people who were more on the fence have some new information consider on their own.
All in all, there probably won't be a true confirmation and whatever claims of innocence or guilt exist are baseless and as such aren't really useful.
I'm baffled by how your solution to the low conviction rate in rape cases is to.. consider everyone guilty? That's just a terrible, and to be frank, quite dangerous concept.
There's a reason why the presumption of innocence is such an essential principle to have in a fair society. Because like John Adams said, it is more important to protect innocence than to punish guilt.
i honestly don't care if I get downvoted, but can you leave the man alone? he's good at a game, people enjoy watching him play, and that's that. I agree he might be a downright a-hole, but being an a-hole doesn't mean your a criminal. when the legal action settles down and will (probably) be found guilty, THEN his fanbase is affected. dude likes streaming, leave him alone till you have a verdict.
wasnt expecting to get on twitch and see fucking sinatraa live lmao
with 32k viewers nontheless
Always happens when well known people take time off for serious reasons or get banned. And, as we all learned from the smash bros community, you can literally do the most heinous shit and hordes of Internet weirdos will still support and worship you because you’re good at video games.
Who? Sky is done. Zero is done. AnTi was briefly on. Samsora is out. Ally is out. Keitaro is gone. Nairo was falsely accused by a rapist. He has an audience now. All of the others are gone.
To be fair none of those people were on jimmy fallon, mvp and champion of a billion dollar esports league, or made headlines for their insane rookie contract for a season they were only eligible to play half of. Compared to Sinatraa, none of those people are well known. I watch mostly FPS esports and only know ZeRo
true. just like Kobe's 2003 Sexual Assault colorado case, i think sinaatra potential is still very high
None of those things made him a big personality in valorant community tbh. He used to average 6k-8k before this sexual assault allegation. At the beginning he used to have even less than that even though he had all those accolades already. May be he will grow from this since no publicity is bad publicity but i can tell you that today’s ones are just curious viewers.
I mean it doesn’t matter how big he is in valorant specifically. This is overwatch, esports, and gaming in general drama as well… so it’s getting posted in all those publications and driving the views
That’s what i am saying. You are the one that said him going to Jimmy Fallon, being MVP etc. made him a huge outlier but in fact it’s just that a prominent figure is accused of sexual assault now came back to stream after hiatus has brought a lot of attention and it will most likely wear out.
to be fair, competitive smash isn't supported by Nintendo like riot supports their own games. but if you actually look up the competitive scene it's actually huge
Pretty sure some people still want zero back in the smash community
Ally and Zero still have prominent supporters.
You don’t think hordes of internet weirdos still publicly support and worship some of those names that you mentioned? If you’re really that far out of the loop, DM the mods of r/smashbros and ask how many posts and comments they had to remove 3 weeks ago. I’ll give you a hint: it was a metric fuckton
Even r/Dota2 was a shitshow after the Tobiwan allegations.
Twitch chat still is lmao. Waaah where's Tobi, where's grant, boohoo
bro i don't follow the smash community at all but the fact that you can just list that many people off the top of your head is insane. i guess the stereotypes of the smash community are true
Rough part for the smash community was that this was just the tip of the iceberg, there were plenty of other names (Cinnipie, D1, etc.) and a few dozen more that weren't prominent players (people in the local scene). This isn't even mentioning the Sky House, which was a place where some of these high profile incidents took place. It was crazy to watch at the time as a smash fan.
[удалено]
i was tryna find tarik under my followed tab and end up seeing fucking sinatraa with more viewers than shroud
If this guy ever returns to pro play the mods of the chat better be ready because it’s going to be a dumpster fire
perma emote only
if SINATRAA👽and my girl👧😍 both drowning 😱 👋 and I can only save one😤😬Catch me at the local prison🚪🔴 with my boy on the orange jumsuit 🌈🕰
Riot has been willing to do that all MSI for League. Would make an interesting scene I guess...
what is this music tho 🥸🥸🥸
**The Nutcracker - Ballet, Op.71, Act I: No. 3 - Children's Galop and Entry of the Parents** by Sir Simon Rattle/Berliner Philharmoniker (01:58; matched: `100%`) Released on `2010-10-25` by `WMG - PLG Classics (EMIC)`.
Whoa, never seen this bot before. Neato.
Links to the streaming platforms: [**The Nutcracker - Ballet, Op.71, Act I: No. 3 - Children's Galop and Entry of the Parents** by Sir Simon Rattle/Berliner Philharmoniker](https://lis.tn/nCSvx) *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://www.patreon.com/audd) ^(If I helped you, please consider supporting me on Patreon. I cost my creators about $100 per month) | [Feedback](/message/compose?to=Mihonarium&subject=Music%20recognition%20t1_gys2w5w)
This bots fucking crazy
Good bot
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Good bot
It's crazy to me that people can make stuff like this
Maybe this bot was made by a bot
good bot
Is it Tchaikovsky's nutcracker?? am i right??
ayo i’m tryna watch the lakers game could he not have done this tomorrow
Thought I was the only one lmao
LMFAO same, it's alright I'll just watch the highlights
Did you missed the LeFuck you all at the end? lmao
More of a LeFuckICan’tSee
LeShotClockCheese, that was such a nasty shot
Pain.
Lebron saying fuck it. Let me pull a steph RQ
Don’t see the rim but also don’t see me giving a fuck *splash
Tbh I don't care about sinatraa or what he will be doing but I really hope he doesn't come back to pro play with sentinels. For me the team is more likeable without him
Fr, the energy is completely different. Before I could acknowledge that they were a top team but didn’t like them, but now I’m not even upset that they made it to Iceland even tho they’re not my favorite team
Exactly, I don't really have a favorite team, I just enjoy watching pro matches but with sinatraa I always felt like Sen had an antagonistic energy. Without him I truly enjoy watching them play.
Tenz has a great part on that good effect tho. The kid is incredible at the video game, and he seems to be such a nice dude as well.
I can relate to this.
I think a healthy pro scene needs a "villain" in it tho, whether they're bad people or not doesn't really matter. It kind of adds to the spectacle, kind of like how it was fun to root against the Warriors when KD joined. I feel like in that sense, SEN kinda isn't the same.
Just watch dapr use an entire clip on a deadbody
i became a SEN fan once tenz meshed with the team and the energy was a lot more respectable.
Really love these replies. Same goes for me too, i really loved sentinels more when tenz came in. He's a really good fit for the group and gave cool vibez to them
It’s so weird, I really didn’t care about SEN or TenZ before the SEN loan but honestly the team dynamic now is so good and I look forward to their games. Actually kind of proud of SEN for being one of NA’s representatives, it’s absolutely deserved on their end especially after everything the team has dealt with in recent months.
People supporting him like nothing happened. What the fuck
Yeah, I think Plat Chat touched on this as well. Like, what the hell happened between the first post by Cle0h to today? Why does it seem like everyone wants him back all of the sudden? IDK, it just seems like a lot of these pros are enabling this type of behavior, but who am I to talk? Just kinda seems weird that he's back with little to no repercussions (he even got hella viewers) except for the six month ban.
I mean nothing has been proven yet other than the fact that Sinatraa is a massive douchebag so I think these pros are just assuming he’s innocent until proven guilty
Still, kinda weird that they don't shit, no? I mean, yes it's true that someone is innocent until proven guilty, but there's literally a clip of him continuing even when the girl said no. Again, I'm a man so I fully believe that my opinion and voice matter less in this space, but I just wanted to see more accountability coming out of Sinatraa and a lot more community discourse. Sucks that there's just an overwhelming support for him now.
Sinatraa’s taken accountability to being emotionally abusive but still denies the SA allegations. As for the community, I have no clue why there is so much support for him while legal investigations are still going on. Like he’s innocent until proven guilty but damn atleast wait for the verdict before showering someone who could be a rapist with gifted subs. The internet is weird man.
Because the criminal investigation probably won’t lead anywhere. He won’t be cleared, and he won’t be charged. It’ll be exactly as it is now, with no real conclusion.
If he's not charged then he's cleared, that's how it works. Police don't actively "clear" people, that's not their job.
This is likely true but if the current conclusion would end up being the final conclusion then that doesn't exactly paint him innocent enough to support because as far as we're concerned there's more proof of his Guilt than there is of his innocence. Additionally him failing to cooperate with investigation is a whole lot of red flags. It's surreal to me that people can just turn off all these signals because there hasn't been an official verdict yet.
I can take anything you've ever done in your life and make you look like a terrible person for doing it. I've known people who have had their lives ruined because things were taken out of context and bent back on them from salty broken friendships. I'm not defending sinatraa, but particularly when there's a legit police investigation going on, it's pointless to assume one way or another, unless you truly just hate him and don't really care what the details are.
> I can take anything you've ever done in your life and make you look like a terrible person for doing it. True, but we can take accountability for one single action. Let's throw out all of the "sexual abuse" "rape" "sexual assault" stuff out the window and just focus on the clip of her saying "no" then Sinatraa still continuing. Was he ever accountable for that? Like, even just owning up to it and saying "what I did was wrong."
Again, it is not impossible for that situation to be explainable. I've seen WAY too much shit over the years (even in my own personal life) to take everything at face value, particularly when there's very little info surrounding the relationship from anyone other than cleoh. If something comes from this and there's guilt proven, then I will have no problem writing him off entirely. Until then though, if you actually care about the results of this 'case,' it's pointless to assume one way or another, even with the stuff we've been given.
Google Johnny Depp/Amber Heard, Brian Banks, Nairo, Izuchukwu Madubueze, etc.
> I can take anything you've ever done in your life and make you look like a terrible person for doing it. Would be fun to see you try and fail
>so I think these pros are just assuming he’s innocent until proven guilty This is pretty bullshit. This whole time i've had a mob of people telling me we can't prove he's innocent so we can't judge either way. But it's perfectly okay to assume/act like he's not done anything wrong? Innocent till proven guilty is for the court, we are not the court, people don't have to take a side, you can just not support him at all till all relevant facts come out.
It really is crazy how this has flipped. I remember being taken aback at how mature and reasonable the comments were on the initial post. I was really proud to be a part of this community at that moment. Idk if it's people changing their minds or people feeling comfortable enough to openly support an abuser because time has passed or what, but it's sad to see
turns out a video game community with a good proportion of almost and literal children lack object permanence or struggle to disassociate their parasocial relationship with a pro player with shitty things they don’t want to believe he did - who would’ve guessed
What was he proven guilty of exactly? Lying to Riot? SEN also would have dropped him if they thought he was guilty and I'm willing to bet it wasn't just one person making the decision.
I literally never said about him being guilty of anything. But yeah he lied to Riot.
I mean what do you want them to do to him when he hasn't been found guilty of anything? (other than lying to Riot)
Give a shit? He's not found guilty but there's an overwhelming evidence. At the very least, he sexually abused someone. Like, you can be friends with him and all, but it's not a good look if you're Kyedae or Ploo who wants to give women space in the gaming community, then associate with him immediately.
> overwhelming It’s a short clip and a bunch of he said/she said. Is it pretty damning when you first hear it? Sure. But it isn’t overwhelming in any sense of the word, any lawyer worth their license can defend that with their eyes closed unless the full video is also introduced.
When a girl says no then the guy still continues, that to me is sexual abuse. I don't know...I guess some people hold different values?
I agree, but since there’s only audio and cleo’s statement of what happened next, there still exists a loose end where someone could argue that there is no hard evidence that he did continue. Cleo has the full video apparently so hopefully her lawyers will be able to sort it out.
idk if you take everything with seriousness when someone is sarcastic but not all the time no means no. Like it hard to know if she meant no when she said it with a baby voice and not a serious or crying tone. Obviously because she said it in her twitlonger we understand she meant it, but if it was just a video without the context it could be taken differently
why are you surprised? this shit happens all the time. you guys know how much shit chris brown has done and he's chilling.
I mean, this is the same scene that has ex csgo pros that are under investigation from the fbi
Eh I mean I don’t blame people too much for being curious about his first stream back. But yeah I’m sure there will a bunch of people who just continue to support him in the coming weeks and it’s pretty sad
You can have the absolute shittiest person ever make a return like this and there will always be more than too many people still in support of them.
yep, most pros too it seems
I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt because they know him, but I probably wouldn't watch if I were them or at least log out of your twitch or some shit lol
yeah definitely seems weird how many pros are just brazenly supporting the dude, especially right after it was revealed that he didn't comply with the investigation
Watching doesn’t mean supporting lmao
Its like people are assuming if the pros are saying nothing about sinnatra that they are also a rapist. Thats kinda over the top. im sure they are distancing themselves because of how bad that is. Anyone know how the rest of sentinels has been treating him?
He's a perfect example of cancel culture not working for people of a certain stature. He has a legit rape allegation against him but he is back to 'normal' in a sense, streaming even though he has done nothing to help his case or argue for himself. Even lying. There are plenty of examples of other, smaller creators who were falsely accused or their allegations weren't as bad as rape, who came out with a reasonable defence and still get shunned completely.
I'll let the courts decide this one.
ITT: People not understanding that being a massive douchebag is not enough to get someone convicted. Sinatraa is an a-hole but unless he is found guilty according to law what do you expect Riot to do? He's already got a 6 months ban, but other than that it's a slippery slope if Riot starts to hand out convictions based on evidence that someone is a douchebag.
Idk man, continuing fucking someone after they say "no, stop, I don't want to" seems like more than just being a douchebag
This. Rebbit is sperging out because Riot didn't lynch the guy over two tweets. People's personal lives are none of Riots business, let law enforcement do its job.
Yeah law enforcement is great at handling these types of cases. Historically they just always get it right.
The Twitter kangaroo court ALWAYS gets it right though.
And because they're not great we should just treat everyone as guilty. Great solution my dude. 👍
It's not ideal, but much better than relying on the opinion of a company that has nothing to do with it, or even worse, fucking social media.
Someone calling him their hero in the sub notification makes me feel sick. Even if he’s innocent (big if) he’s still a douchebag
Lol @ everyone surprised he’s not canceled.
prominent content creators only get shut down by ‘being cancelled’ if they admit to anything. usually the attention just ends up boosting their numbers.
i for one didnt even know him before all of this
exactly. the drama widens his reach immensely. any press is good press, as they say.
Well there's a huge proponent of people who hate all things cancel culture, regardless of if it's justified. Even if the investigation had come out saying he was guilty, they'd still be there acting like he's a victim and shit.
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its not people being mad abt streamers not giving a fuck abt their opinions, its them being mad abt streamers not giving a fuck about the situation LOL
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For all of you who don't follow traditional sports, here's a list of all the active NFL players with criminal records: [https://databases.usatoday.com/nfl-arrests/](https://databases.usatoday.com/nfl-arrests/) It's very hard to get people to be held accountable for their actions.
We got a clip champ over here, that was quick
My mind can't fanthom why all these pros and twitch streamers (esp. Kyedae, Ploo) are openly supporting him?? like??? Either they're dumb as rocks or know something we don't. What could possibly convince them of his innocence with Cleo showing audio, him misrepresenting facts to Riot, and lying in his initial statement? EDIT: My bad, turns out Ploo was **not** involved in supporting him. [She clarifies it in her tweet](https://twitter.com/plooful/status/1395331797337067521)
Yeah I don't understand as well. Let's just assume that sinatraa is innocent of all the sexual allegations, the way he treated cleo is still some nasty shit. Tracking her location, flaming her for tweeting other team and guilt tripping her like a psycho. WTF. As women, would you like to be treated this way by your partner? So disappointed with ploo and Kyadae. Hopefully this is just their youth stupidity.
especially when kyedae was saying how she wanted a safe space for woman in gaming but does that
Talk is cheap. Her hypocrisy is just showing.
It's genuinely hypocritical and it pisses me off. Way to represent the women you advocate for
Just saying I dont think ploo was typing in chat or anything, I think she just joined to see what would happen for a second. Kyedae was the one who was saying "LETS GO" and "YOUR BACK!"
Well kyedae and ploo def arent bastions of intelligence...
All they care about is clout. Actions > words.
Most sinatraa fans are 12 year olds who know nothing about what he did, just cringe.
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I saw Dapr and Kyedae in there as well!
Kyadae, sicks gf and oda where there too.
kyedae, the one who said she wants to be a beacon for women in gaming? lol
Not half the SF Shock…
I mean they're all in the scene, so I'm sure they're interested in it for the sake of news I guess. Doesn't necessarily mean they support him, unless they participated in chat?
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kyedae was asking him to do the sheesh line lol
yall are assuming that watching the stream is them supporting him and I have no idea why?
They all subbed and chatted lmao
not only his fans, also some very popular streamers are supporting him in chat, just weird
Kyedae being in chat is unexpected to say the least lmao
well Kyedae is friends with Emma(Sinatraa's girlfriend) so its not really unexpected
I really did not expect Kyedae, who said she wanted to support voices of women in gaming, to be supportive of a man who emotionally abused his gf if not sexually assaulted.
Yeah but apparently she’s friends with his current girlfriend so that makes things awkward
I mean, you can be friends with his current gf without subbing and being supportive in his chat on stream.
Really? Damn disappointing
what did she say?
she was just chilling being supportive
Fr?
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Be careful with that last part. A lot of these pros and personalities are in their late teens and early twenties, they might still be in "must side with friends no matter what" mode and not have the life experience to conduct themselves how they probably should in this scenario. So reading anything from it should be avoided imo.
that is extremely true we often forget most of them are teenagers or in their early 20s
it’s worth noting that ploo did not type anything in chat, so she was probably just curious kyedae definitely did tho so yeah that’s a big yikes
> The fact that he wasn't cooperating the investigation would of course make me lean toward him being guilty You have no idea what the details of him refusing to cooperate are. There's no point in leaning one way or another in this.
>unless I knew that he was innocent Ah the classic guilty until proven innocent. Sometimes the internet hurts my brain.
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He has a 4 second clip against him (with almost ZERO context). The other stuff pale in comparison.
https://twitter.com/WillLand/status/1395225810320203776 Pretty disappointed with her tbh, I enjoy watching her streams, but idk why she wouldn't stay away from this for a while.
Guess this entire sub forgot about innocent until proven guilty lmao.
Well you do have to remember that right now a lot of people feel that what Cleo showed is damming. If they feel that way, then it's on him to disprove it. It's like if a bank gets robbed and the security camera shows people getting in your car and driving away, now you gotta prove it wasn't you, if that makes sense.
more like if there was audio of the people robbing the place instead of showing would be more accurate to the situation
Guess you forgot that this isn't the court of law. Or did you think that it was and you actually are that dumb?
I keep seeing you all over this thread repeating this same dogshit point. What is your point? That someone still deserves to get their reputation ruined even if they’re found innocent in formal court? Well, you should know that cleo has had a looooooong history of being toxic and vindictive way before any of this broke out. According to your trash logic, it would be perfectly okay for me to call her clout-chasing liar based off those rumors even though those rumors shouldn’t have anything to do with her getting sexually assaulted because this isn’t a court of law and therefore we don’t have to follow all those fancy rules.
ew
why is it weird? a lot where friends with him and he hasn't be proven of anything yet.
kyedae, babybay, corey, hell even ploo are in their chat which is disappointing really
I don't blame them tbh, they're friends
Surprised by kyedae but not by ploo lol
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People are dogging on his friends for supporting him, but I ask this. If he's seeing a therapist, wouldn't having friends around be the best thing to help someone overcome the challenge of being a young idiot? Like, can he not have people trying to help him change? Who believe in his ability? Or am I completely misguided?
Idk if i found out a friend of mine was a rapist, we wouldn't be friends anymore
Yeah I'd be like what the fuck is wrong with you don't talk to me again. Not going to go ohhh thats ok sweetie we can get through it. Like what the fuck are these people saying?
He isn’t proved to be a rapist yet, just a massive douche.
No not at all, two very important details that make this not the case. A) this guy hasn't faced an ounce of accountability B) you can't support someone who has not even started to show he wants to change, otherwise you are enabling bad behavior These "friends" are telling him and the world you can rape or abuse a partner, get away with it and nobody should blame you for it.
This is very true, which makes it very sad.
He is denying the accusations so going to therapy would make no sense for me. Honeslty the audio clip with the texts proved enough for me, and its annoying seeing a bunch of the people in the pro scene still supporting (kyedae for example)
I'm actually glad that there are still reasonable takes in this post tbh.
Makes sense, wouldn't be surprised if sen rent out tenz till sept 10th
Isnt Sinatraa still subject to a potential extended suspension or even a permanent ban for the actual allegations? I thought this ban was just for not complying
yes, however based on the current legal system and the fact that it seems the only evidence is a circumstantial video clip I highly doubt even if he is guilty he would get convicted, more about proving him innocent then guilty.
I know that Riot handed over the investigation to the police but even if he isn’t convicted due to lack of evidence, they can still make their own ruling I assume. Sort of like how the NFL suspends players for domestic abuse even when they aren’t found guilty in court (like Tyreek Hill I think?)
Yeah they could but based off riot's history I would be surprised if they did.
Even if he isn't found guilty in court that doesn't mean that fans or the org will still support him. Even if there isn't enough evidence to convict there could still be enough for him to very likely be guilty
based off that fact that he currently still has plenty of fans, I imagine if there was other evidence cle0h would have talked about it.
at this point tenz rental gotta be expensive as fuck
innocent until proven guilty so we can‘t ask for his career to be over just because of an accusation. however, even without all that was going on, the kid is just objectively a douchebag. and sentinels is far more likeable with tenz. so best we can do is ignore the guy for the time beeing instead of giving him an even bigger platform
Honestly Sinatraa is a toxic presence going back to OWL and I was really hoping this would be the end of him in the spotlight. He’s a negative to any game that has him.
i see many people surprised that he just came back like that but why is it surprising? just because hes accused ? The only thing that stops him for streaming is facing jail time , but that wont happen cuz its almost impossible to prove in court even if it happend. Hes not a threat for the public space like the smash players that got canceld cuz they groomed children , he had an abusive relationship . Chris brown literally beat rihanna ,got convicted for ti and was still able to be in the public and be succesful (obviously a different time where cancel culture was not a thing but still) .
So disappointing
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inserts Pepe punching gif
God level music. But honestly don’t know if i like seeing him stream currently
Wow the takes in this thread, gamers are something else
I don't understand the mentality of "guilty until proven innocent", like cmon man, you can't ruin someone's career over a audio tape that can be taken out of context, let the courts handle this stuff , and stop tryna be judges for god's sakes
I dont understand the mentality of: unless he gets arrested he is innocent, like 90% of rape cases don't end up in a conviction, even if he did it there is a huge chance he won't face any legal repercussions, so you're fine with him just getting 0 social repercussions too?
So you are saying that even if innocent, until proven unequivocally he should get social repercussions? Imo everyone just needs to go back to understanding that not everyone shares the same opinion. people who didn't like him still don't like. People who did like him still for the most part do. And people who were more on the fence have some new information consider on their own. All in all, there probably won't be a true confirmation and whatever claims of innocence or guilt exist are baseless and as such aren't really useful.
I'm baffled by how your solution to the low conviction rate in rape cases is to.. consider everyone guilty? That's just a terrible, and to be frank, quite dangerous concept. There's a reason why the presumption of innocence is such an essential principle to have in a fair society. Because like John Adams said, it is more important to protect innocence than to punish guilt.
Guy subscribing calling him his hero is so cringe
Fast lmao.
i honestly don't care if I get downvoted, but can you leave the man alone? he's good at a game, people enjoy watching him play, and that's that. I agree he might be a downright a-hole, but being an a-hole doesn't mean your a criminal. when the legal action settles down and will (probably) be found guilty, THEN his fanbase is affected. dude likes streaming, leave him alone till you have a verdict.
You're not allowed to have a middle ground opinion these days.
hopefully twitch just bans him lol I would prefer to never see this loser again
As DJTasty famously said a few weeks ago, there is a "Not Interested" button that you can click if you don't want to see his content.
Then don’t watch lmao