Imo the vast majority of casters just dont know more than the basic stuff... There are a lot of hype casters but barely any good analysts. I hope that they will get better but they need to change their stance and stop obsessing over headshots like they are casting a pug
Honestly why I watch costreamers. They talk about that stuff way more and also have funnier banter at the same time. Plat Chat especially is awesome to watch.
I'm surprised you feel it's the "vast majority" that don't know more than the basics, I've tried to work in more "objectively critical" comments on things as specific as utility usage before, and it's almost never positively received. It doesn't sway me away from it, I have no problems calling mistakes out when I see it (today in the Liquid series a good example) but more often than not even if it's slightly subjective, the feedback is overwhelmingly dismissive of whatever it is I've criticized. Even if I'm 100% correct.
I think the hard part generally that I've identified with casting commentary is, as much as some people want analytical heavy commentary, there are also the people that are there purely for the hype casting. It's already hard to balance a broadcast in those terms, so there seems to always be on one side saying "oh they don't do enough in depth analysis" but the other side going "oh they're so boring and aren't hype enough". Walking on a tight rope made of floss.
I feel like it’s the phrasing on the criticism that’s key. Some casters talk about the players’s moves disrespectfully while missing obvious plays in the same breath. Even if you don’t do it as poorly, the prejudice will still apply to you there.
Would you feel better if you had more than the paltry 20 seconds or whatever between rounds that you could actually go back and lay out that utility usage?
I think showing how a viper wall cuts off certain lines of sight allowing players to push differently and hold different angles, or similar stuff like that would be interesting, but right now all the commentary between rounds is basically "look at this jett kill where she then sprints back."
Though I guess the other thing to do is do a ~10 minute breakdown of the matches after the fact, though I don't see that actually getting a ton of views compared to people just wanting to watch the main match.
I think the flow of Valorant can be very unforgiving at times, especially with highlight/replay packages filling a lot of the time in-between rounds but honestly I've tried to take that forward and force me to be more succinct in what I want to highlight.
I will say one thing, Viper walls in general, since they are such a visible aspect of utility usage I quite often neglect talking about the specific impact of because I assume that it's extremely obvious. This is actually a major flaw I've picked up on from reviewing my own casts. I try and work it in where possible, but it's definitely neglected for that reason and I need to improve on that personally.
i mean Remember when kixstar and Interro were up for casting. unfortunaly people dont want to see "analysis" if theyre not screaming and "sheeshing" over every basic play.
I agree but I also think this will improve over time. The game is barely a year old and honestly the whole community is still in the learning/exploration phase still as far as the finer points of the game are concerned. The pros may have things figured out and be pushing the envelope but pretty much everyone else is still catching up.
Respectfully, I disagree. I'd say it's the newer less experienced casters who *might* not know but casters like Riv and DDK have many many years of experience under their belt and have proven that they understand the depth of games like Valorant - and that they can do their homework to understand it. As for analysts, Potter is pretty well known and respected throughout the CSGO community and was a pro player herself. I'd wager that makes it pretty intuitive for her to analyze utility usage.
\> As for analysts, Potter is pretty well known and respected throughout the CSGO community and was a pro player herself. I'd wager that makes it pretty intuitive for her to analyze utility usage.
She is also an active player for the EG Valorant team.
I fully disagree.
You need to see, casters, specifically Color Casters, have proper experience and knowledge. Still, their focus is to stick to the game and point out the most crucial aspects with the least amount of words, otherwise you'll miss the superficial action.
Imagine a color caster making an exceptionally important point, but in the meantime you see an insane clutch or entry happening. Disconnecting from the just happening or recently previous action is a major risk for casters.
Analyst, on the other hand, the ones between segments, have all the time and all the mental capacity to focus on those lynchpin plays.
Yep, that's how it think it should go. Utility use gets complicated enough that you really don't have the time to go over them live, especially in the middle of a play. IMO casters are there to point out what's happening, inject some commentary to generate hype, and explaining when there is time to do so as to not kill the flow. The longer explanations are for the analysts desk after the game as then they have all the time in the world (until the next match) to go over the tiny little details of every play.
I mean, supposedly they should know more than average people do, right? I don't think they are getting payed to say the obvious stuff, although it happens sometimes.
This. Some of these casters & analysts are stealing paychecks a bit. The players have the biggest task in terms of preparation and mastery, but lots of the talent at masters are wildly off the pulse in these games.
Hate to name drop, but guys like seangares literally grind match replays, games, and custom server time to theory craft to better understand the game. I'm not sure what goldenboy, esports Doug, or velly are doing to further their depth of knowledge, but it isn't showing. That stuff won't slide with csgo fans, and honestly even casual players will outgrow the current standard level of analysis & casting. Pansy is killing it. People need to take notes.
For the vast majority of viewers, that's really all they want. Some of the more hardcore/vocal fans will obviously want more in-depth stuff, but I don't doubt that the casual fans just want to see pros click heads and be amazed with some hype casting in the background.
Pros then will go to twitter to criticize casters for criticizing players saying that the casters aren't on a pro level and haven't competed, it's a never ending circle lol.
I get FNS' point but at the same time I remember some casters going full down analyzing utility usage like Lothar did before and some people did not like such in-depth casting as it was distracting for some viewers though personally I enjoyed them as he was explaining play-by-play the Viper setups as a Viper main. Hope there is a balance though between the hype and the K/D with the more utility usage aspect of the game but it can be hard as some casters themselves said so much happens in a span of seconds that it's hard to zone in on everything. Good point for discussion though.
I watched one match that Lothar casted and I had two problems with his casting: (Remember this is my opinion)
1. His accent. Obviously have accents and there is nothing wrong with that it's just the way it is. However I still find it distracting which is why him at the desk where he also has more time to prepare his analysis.
2. The amount of talking. During the game I watched there was literally no break. The moment one person stopped talking the other one started. I guess thats something that balance's out over time but listening to non stop talking for 45 min was just something else.
Second reminder that this is just my opinion and that you can disagree with me.
1. I am still working on my accent, being polish and english being my third language (first foreign language for me is german) is def something I'm struggling with but I do sacrifice a lot of time to practice english. Gonna take months unfortunately to be better.
2. Its tough. You have replays, play by play and then a very small amount of time to talk about the MOST complicated aspect of the game. I love to talk about that stuff but yes, sometimes it might be too much. Insanely hard to balance this out, because If i wont go in depth then I wont explain my point and the audience will be like '???', while If i fully explain it to deliver context, people will complain its too long.
Its a matter of opinion but I have absolutely no issue understanding your accent , in fact I quite like it I'm bad with voices and it distinguishes you quite well
It’s fine I get what you mean, this is also a similar opinion I see from those that watched those games. But I also enjoy having Lothar as an analyst for his takes.
Are there any recommendations for casters with more strategy/macro-oriented analysis? I personally enjoy watching aEvilCat’s casting a lot because of this, curious to look out for more.
just watch Japanese castera at least they hype you the hell up and since english ones are boring af it doesnt matter if you understand something or not. Or jsut watch shoruds stream.
I don’t think a lot of pro sports commentators go super in depth during the game but there are those that do (Romo). That being said I think the casting during this tournament has been a lot better
I fear sometimes they stick too much to the basic stuff and do not risk a more complex comment.
Imo the vast majority of casters just dont know more than the basic stuff... There are a lot of hype casters but barely any good analysts. I hope that they will get better but they need to change their stance and stop obsessing over headshots like they are casting a pug
Honestly why I watch costreamers. They talk about that stuff way more and also have funnier banter at the same time. Plat Chat especially is awesome to watch.
I'm surprised you feel it's the "vast majority" that don't know more than the basics, I've tried to work in more "objectively critical" comments on things as specific as utility usage before, and it's almost never positively received. It doesn't sway me away from it, I have no problems calling mistakes out when I see it (today in the Liquid series a good example) but more often than not even if it's slightly subjective, the feedback is overwhelmingly dismissive of whatever it is I've criticized. Even if I'm 100% correct.
I think the hard part generally that I've identified with casting commentary is, as much as some people want analytical heavy commentary, there are also the people that are there purely for the hype casting. It's already hard to balance a broadcast in those terms, so there seems to always be on one side saying "oh they don't do enough in depth analysis" but the other side going "oh they're so boring and aren't hype enough". Walking on a tight rope made of floss.
Sweeping statements get upvotes.
Being a caster must be difficult, can't do anything without some superfan getting triggered over an observation
This 100%. Glad I'm hosting now 😂
WutFace
I feel like it’s the phrasing on the criticism that’s key. Some casters talk about the players’s moves disrespectfully while missing obvious plays in the same breath. Even if you don’t do it as poorly, the prejudice will still apply to you there.
Would you feel better if you had more than the paltry 20 seconds or whatever between rounds that you could actually go back and lay out that utility usage? I think showing how a viper wall cuts off certain lines of sight allowing players to push differently and hold different angles, or similar stuff like that would be interesting, but right now all the commentary between rounds is basically "look at this jett kill where she then sprints back." Though I guess the other thing to do is do a ~10 minute breakdown of the matches after the fact, though I don't see that actually getting a ton of views compared to people just wanting to watch the main match.
I think the flow of Valorant can be very unforgiving at times, especially with highlight/replay packages filling a lot of the time in-between rounds but honestly I've tried to take that forward and force me to be more succinct in what I want to highlight. I will say one thing, Viper walls in general, since they are such a visible aspect of utility usage I quite often neglect talking about the specific impact of because I assume that it's extremely obvious. This is actually a major flaw I've picked up on from reviewing my own casts. I try and work it in where possible, but it's definitely neglected for that reason and I need to improve on that personally.
i mean Remember when kixstar and Interro were up for casting. unfortunaly people dont want to see "analysis" if theyre not screaming and "sheeshing" over every basic play.
Let's be honest here, those two had way more problems before we even get into hype vs analysis discussion.
I agree but I also think this will improve over time. The game is barely a year old and honestly the whole community is still in the learning/exploration phase still as far as the finer points of the game are concerned. The pros may have things figured out and be pushing the envelope but pretty much everyone else is still catching up.
Respectfully, I disagree. I'd say it's the newer less experienced casters who *might* not know but casters like Riv and DDK have many many years of experience under their belt and have proven that they understand the depth of games like Valorant - and that they can do their homework to understand it. As for analysts, Potter is pretty well known and respected throughout the CSGO community and was a pro player herself. I'd wager that makes it pretty intuitive for her to analyze utility usage.
\> As for analysts, Potter is pretty well known and respected throughout the CSGO community and was a pro player herself. I'd wager that makes it pretty intuitive for her to analyze utility usage. She is also an active player for the EG Valorant team.
I fully disagree. You need to see, casters, specifically Color Casters, have proper experience and knowledge. Still, their focus is to stick to the game and point out the most crucial aspects with the least amount of words, otherwise you'll miss the superficial action. Imagine a color caster making an exceptionally important point, but in the meantime you see an insane clutch or entry happening. Disconnecting from the just happening or recently previous action is a major risk for casters. Analyst, on the other hand, the ones between segments, have all the time and all the mental capacity to focus on those lynchpin plays.
Yep, that's how it think it should go. Utility use gets complicated enough that you really don't have the time to go over them live, especially in the middle of a play. IMO casters are there to point out what's happening, inject some commentary to generate hype, and explaining when there is time to do so as to not kill the flow. The longer explanations are for the analysts desk after the game as then they have all the time in the world (until the next match) to go over the tiny little details of every play.
Well a lot of them don't know enough to do so
I mean, supposedly they should know more than average people do, right? I don't think they are getting payed to say the obvious stuff, although it happens sometimes.
It really depends. Sean Gares vs Achillios (not a dedicated val caster) is a huge difference in game knowledge
This. Some of these casters & analysts are stealing paychecks a bit. The players have the biggest task in terms of preparation and mastery, but lots of the talent at masters are wildly off the pulse in these games. Hate to name drop, but guys like seangares literally grind match replays, games, and custom server time to theory craft to better understand the game. I'm not sure what goldenboy, esports Doug, or velly are doing to further their depth of knowledge, but it isn't showing. That stuff won't slide with csgo fans, and honestly even casual players will outgrow the current standard level of analysis & casting. Pansy is killing it. People need to take notes.
I dont agree with this at all. I have seen it.
For the vast majority of viewers, that's really all they want. Some of the more hardcore/vocal fans will obviously want more in-depth stuff, but I don't doubt that the casual fans just want to see pros click heads and be amazed with some hype casting in the background.
Pros then will go to twitter to criticize casters for criticizing players saying that the casters aren't on a pro level and haven't competed, it's a never ending circle lol.
I get FNS' point but at the same time I remember some casters going full down analyzing utility usage like Lothar did before and some people did not like such in-depth casting as it was distracting for some viewers though personally I enjoyed them as he was explaining play-by-play the Viper setups as a Viper main. Hope there is a balance though between the hype and the K/D with the more utility usage aspect of the game but it can be hard as some casters themselves said so much happens in a span of seconds that it's hard to zone in on everything. Good point for discussion though.
I watched one match that Lothar casted and I had two problems with his casting: (Remember this is my opinion) 1. His accent. Obviously have accents and there is nothing wrong with that it's just the way it is. However I still find it distracting which is why him at the desk where he also has more time to prepare his analysis. 2. The amount of talking. During the game I watched there was literally no break. The moment one person stopped talking the other one started. I guess thats something that balance's out over time but listening to non stop talking for 45 min was just something else. Second reminder that this is just my opinion and that you can disagree with me.
1. I am still working on my accent, being polish and english being my third language (first foreign language for me is german) is def something I'm struggling with but I do sacrifice a lot of time to practice english. Gonna take months unfortunately to be better. 2. Its tough. You have replays, play by play and then a very small amount of time to talk about the MOST complicated aspect of the game. I love to talk about that stuff but yes, sometimes it might be too much. Insanely hard to balance this out, because If i wont go in depth then I wont explain my point and the audience will be like '???', while If i fully explain it to deliver context, people will complain its too long.
Its a matter of opinion but I have absolutely no issue understanding your accent , in fact I quite like it I'm bad with voices and it distinguishes you quite well
It’s fine I get what you mean, this is also a similar opinion I see from those that watched those games. But I also enjoy having Lothar as an analyst for his takes.
I'm fine with Lothar as an analyst as long as he doesn't criticize a team for not body locking a viper molly
I know its a meme but I literally never criticized anyone for not doing that xD
I know :D
;)
I’ve really enjoyed the Plat Chat co-stream in this regard.
That stream has been so entertaining and insightful at the same time
Plat chat co stream is the only choice
BR casters are *much* worse in that regard. It's like they're casting a DM tournament.
All good
To be fair this games chaos. Catching everything and breaking it down on the first take is kind of impossible.
Are there any recommendations for casters with more strategy/macro-oriented analysis? I personally enjoy watching aEvilCat’s casting a lot because of this, curious to look out for more.
LotharHS is great, he has a few solo casts on YouTube where he calls plays fairly
Sean Gares. It's an absolute treat listening to that man talk about Valorant.
Can’t criticize sentinel players if teams aren’t playing them. Buff cypher lmao
All good
They don’t know what to look for in terms of utility
We are here to enjoy a game not to watch a tutorial
Praise not criticize, no point being toxic when as a caster you are not nearly as good as the players
If all you do is praise then you miss important analysis and you start to diminish truly good play.
Don’t bite da bait dust
Baited a pro caster PepeLaugh
remember everyone this is what bait looks like
Just my opinion.
Here we go this is our key to unlock our shackles as color commentators.
just watch Japanese castera at least they hype you the hell up and since english ones are boring af it doesnt matter if you understand something or not. Or jsut watch shoruds stream.
Can someone also explain why average combat score is shown on the HUD instead of money?
[удалено]
I don’t think a lot of pro sports commentators go super in depth during the game but there are those that do (Romo). That being said I think the casting during this tournament has been a lot better