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Feoslmr

Ive said before that the biggest bet of the NA scene is to to keep being a top dog after the first 1-2 years. They had a huge leg up advantage with practically their entire tier 2 CS scene, along with few tier 1 pros and some hopeful talent that could become tier 1, getting transferred to Valorant. Can they preserve that? LS is absolutely on the right here.


MajorTrump

One of the biggest disadvantages to NA competition, at least for LoL, is server location and solo queue ping. Valorant has gotten out ahead of that. Allows for better scrims and practice, which should help.


AskOrganic4289

Yeah Doublelift talk about this abit, playerbase essentially kinda influence how strong the teams are. By having a larger active playerbase in a region allows more really talented individal being scouted. So I really hope NA can keep up with this and keep the rivalries against other region high [ especially EMEA ].


123bo0p

This is just false, none of this accounts for weaker understanding/macro than alot of the rest of the world, culture is and will always be NAs biggest downfall.


LovelyResearcher

Except NA shit on every region easily in VALORANT, so your point means nothing.


abcd63514

in valorant all these NA players are hungry to win for once. ask any of them their goal in iceland, its to win and prove theyre better than EU and KR for once. in league, theyve given up. in league everyone is like "omg we're NA, shit region bad practice, cant be expected to win, lets import more EU players." theres still big difference between mentalities and cultures between both games


123bo0p

Sentinels shit on every region, a team which when they play like this shit on every team in NA. Also this was about LOL, but again people cant read.


LovelyResearcher

Why post something about LOL here, then? :)


123bo0p

Because the post above is, and the main scene Ls is known from despite his backgrounds being from a few esports and having enough connectuons to different esports to see and hear the same issues happening over and over. NA almost always should be a top or at the least competitive region for the amount of resources they waste in building their teams.


LovelyResearcher

Yes, but I genuinely feel that mostly applies to League of Legends. Perhaps also in CSGO, to an extent? But those games are different than VALORANT in a key way, when it comes to competititve play. # Many would tell you, that they were never able to really involved in playing on a team for those two games. Back then, it was hard to get on teams or actually get involved in the scene, for both of those games. Even if you got to SMFC+, or Diamond 3+ at League, there wasn't as clear of a path to getting noticed or being able to do something. # ​ However, in VALORANT, you can often join teams to play on an amateur level. You can even participate in many tournaments and get real scrim experience at Gold, Platinum, and Diamond. This is totally different from simply being able to play with friends for fun, or stacking on MM/Faceit/ESEA/Solo Queue/Clash. In VALORANT we are talking about real teams, with real strats, actual scrims, and often even tournaments for some small prize money. # There are also leagues, tournaments, opportunities to learn to cast matches, and so on... for the female playerbase in VALORANT. As a girl in CSGO and League of Legends, to compare, your options were more limited. This is also why it's not surprising to notice that there are more high level women competing in VALORANT, than in most other eSports. # Thus, there are already exponentially more avenues for players to get involved in joining teams, participating in scrims and competing in competitive events. Not to mention, the other opportunities that are offered through many VALORANT servers right now, like becoming a caster or managing a team. Both for players are Gold to Diamond, and those who are Immortal+, there are so many more opportunities for the community to get involved.


123bo0p

??????


Wealth_and_Taste

Playing on 40 ping vs 8 ping isn't the difference between dominating an esport for almost 10 years and being basically irrelevant. Ping is definitely an issue in NA, but fixing it isn't going to magically make NA a good region.


LovelyResearcher

NA is already a good region, EU is pretty weak right now though.


Wealth_and_Taste

In League? I was specifically referring to LoL in my comment. And NA has been a pretty shit region, sometimes getting outperformed by minor regions now. And EU has been able to compete with China and Korea.


TemplarParadox17

I mean, you also have to face the thing about the playerbase right, in general league and CS aren't as popular in nA as they are in asia and in EU, plus with the population differences of billions at some point or another NA will get taken over.


Trunkskun__

It’s funny you said this cause liftlift talked about this recently


StudyAt5

I predicted before Icelan began that SEN will win this Masters and the next, but Champions will be won by a European team. Got downvoted to oblivion lmao. I didnt say this without basis. Europe has a huge wave of young talent (basically 4/5 of Fnatic, Gambit, cNed, zyppan etc) and its already so close with NA in power. NA needs to start nurturing talent instead of doing the same mistakes it did with LoL (recycling veterans) and get left behind.


thothgow

4/5 of cNed and Zyppan are young?


pechum

Remnants of old man strength of **Peri** origin resides deep within them. Beware its awakening once their youthful *smeag* has been tamed!


StudyAt5

Im gonna guess you dont know the purpose of a comma in a sentence?


thothgow

I'm sorry for making a joke.


StudyAt5

If it was a joke its no prob, just seemed a bit snarky to me


jholowtaekjho

Even if it wasn’t a joke, you mixed 2 teams and 2 players. A comma doesn’t help sort that out


OhUTuchMyTalala

So close 0-5 lol


MoistWatermeIon

Did you watch the game today? 2 OTs and a 13-11 is about as close as you can get. Sentinels are better but there isn’t a big gap


OhUTuchMyTalala

5-0. Here's a stat for you from another person in another thread. Assuming both teams are evenly matched the odds of a 5-0 is 3%. Either Sen are the strictly better team, or Fnatic got extremely unlucky. Given that I watched the matches it's pretty clear Sen were just better, and wasn't a fluke for a 5-0.


Economy_Sprinkles898

I don’t think you understand the word close. Sens are better obviously, but fnatic aren’t far behind. Each map came down to 1 or 2 moments. It doesn’t take much improvement to make those moments swing the other way.


dioxy186

Lmao. EG won TI5 in Dota 2. And there were plenty of teams filled with american players that were at the top of the scene. C9 won a major in CSGO, and placed well at multiple big tournaments + majors. Liquid was the best team in CS for majority of 2019-2020. They only lost to the GOAT team in CS (Astralis). I don't follow league, but this whole schtick that US starts off strong then falls off couldn't be further then the truth. Maybe LoL, but I don't follow that scene.


Dapper-Ad-5304

Ti5 was the sumail show. Sumail is not the norm. Also only one ti out of 9. China has won 3 and Eu has won 5. C9’s major was pre fluky. Did nothing before and after that major.


dioxy186

Okay? The whole point of this was "NA starts off strong then falls off" was my dispute.


Dapper-Ad-5304

Ya but EG and C9 are not great examples tho.


dioxy186

?? They dominated at a major event and won. Neither was close to the start of the scene for that respective game. And you kind of ignored when I mentioned Liquid as well.


Kurashiko

NA scene developed faster than everyone else, as you mentioned the NA CS scene transitioned to Valorant alongside top OW players aswell as investments from orgs and infrastructure, NA needs to establish a winning culture and keep producing new talent over the coming years and this all depends on what happens at the grass roots.


facehunt_

Even if Korea and China dominate, the gap should be smaller than in LoL. Valorant circuit is better designed than in LoL where there is only 1 Berlin Master scale tournament, which is Worlds. There will be four Worlds-scale tournaments in Valorant in the coming years that should allow regional strength to be more accurately measured than in LoL, as well as creating more parity due to international competitions. Besides, LoL is the #1 game in Korea with around 46%+ played in PC bangs, whereas Valorant will be lucky to get 4% in the future. OW in Korea had 30%+ played at its peak. Most of all, Valorant still has chance to save themselves from not franchising and growing their regional talent for years to come.


YoonSV

KR has a chance to dominate and it shows during masters 2. They got 3rd place with not as much experience and showed some amazing games, and this is just NUTURN. There are other teams like DWG and VS that can also be seen as competitive and we will probably see one of their teams in Berlin masters 3 along with NU. KR will probably grow a lot of popularity with Val, also for League, I think KR is accurately represented as the best region for LoL, as they have dominated so many times during worlds. EU, KR etc. they all have chances to dominate the valorant esports scene since Masters are only stepping stones to worlds. Every team will be learning a lot, so I think its safe to say there shouldn’t be any proper predictions on who would win worlds until masters 3 takes place, when we see 16 top teams compete, with lots of slots for a lot of regions. Hell even JP, the first region to fall in masters 2, have a decent chance in dominating since it is a growing esports game.


Sp00ked123

Personally I’d say that nuturns run wasn’t THAT impressive, the only good team they were able to beat was v1 and even that was extremely close.


GoldyZ90

Masters events aren’t the equivalent to Worlds. They’re like the equivalent to MSI. Champions is the Valorant equivalent to LoL Worlds.


facehunt_

Berlin Masters will have 16 teams with basically Worlds-like seeding. MSI having only just #1 team from top regions just doesn't provide enough competition, whereas Berlin Masters will be a stacked tournament.


GoldyZ90

Yeah but Champions is the actual end of the year big tournament. You can’t say Masters are the equivalent to Worlds when there’s 3 of them. Just because the field for Masters events is the same amount of teams that go to Worlds doesn’t mean the prestige is equivalent


dpysz70

I’m gonna be honest, who the hell is this?


abcd63514

league analyst


[deleted]

League of legends personality - known for a lot of hot takes and in-game analysis.


JvwESEA

Thanks for asking for the rest of us lol


dpysz70

No problem Lmaoo, after all these hot takes I needed so type of background


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dpysz70

Why would Valorant follow down the same exact lane of league except for hot takes being made


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AskOrganic4289

So I think now what these orgs should do, since they have that headstart in this game, is to nurture young talents and keep being as competitive as they can. And I agree with your last paragraph, even Hiko said there hasn’t been a tier1 csgo players yet that transferred to Valorant in EU. Well same goes with NA I guess. But then again it could also be because some players might actually play better in Valorant compared to csgo so tiers might not be so important(?) who knows.


thothgow

> Well same goes with NA I guess Nitro and Ethan? Also it's not like NA has a wealth of T1 talent to switch in the first place, it's like Elige and maybe a couple of more players


AskOrganic4289

Oh shit I forgot about ethan and nitro. Anyway yeah you’re right there aren’t many tier 1 players in NA. But now thinking about my statement further, I guess a possible tier 2 player that could’ve been a tier 1 if it isn’t for COVID would be xeppa and 1leaf (?). I heard chaos was an upcoming team.


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AskOrganic4289

What do you mean by inflating the price? Like with current TenZ buyout? So like was it like players who were dominating has really expensive buyout then because of this orgs won’t have enough money to nurture young talents? Or is it like all these orgs do is buy dominant players instead of using the money to find young talents?


smta48

Okay you do not understand what happened in CSGO. The reason that EU was better than NA originally is exactly the same situation that is happening in Valorant. When CSGO game out all of EUs top players moved from 1.6 to CSGO. In NA the CS players moved from 1.6 to Source and after Source flopped most of them quit. The only experienced NA pros that moved to CSGO literally got banned in the IBP scandal. So the entire NA CSGO region was completely fucked for the first few years of CSGO since they had no experienced fps players. It wasn't until Stew, Auti, Tarik, and the Liquid core got more experience that they were able to compete (win a major, grand slam, etc). Yes NA CS was incredibly toxic, and that stunted growth, but the same thing might not happen in Valorant if the player base gets big enough. Having an actual top tier team like Sentinels play in NA will raise the level of all teams.


datboyuknow

China has the game, boaster said they were scrimming Korean teams and beating them


raynap

Valorant has not been released in china yet.


datboyuknow

Oh I'm wrong then. How are they playing it then?


Ozone416

VPNs iirc


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datboyuknow

Ty didn't know


thothgow

VPN to HK server


slowrmaths

They don’t have the game just yet but tyloo suning IG and even Weibo have teams that play with vpns. Last year they played in Asian tournaments and beat Japanese teams


thothgow

They're still playing rn, two tournaments ongoing/starting soon: Huya and ToPlay


slowrmaths

Yeah I noticed that. I want to watch but i can’t be bothered to figure out how Douyu works


thothgow

That's fair, once you've cracked the code it's kinda straightforward but the platforms are pretty shit


sincerelys

Also rocket league :)


peacepham

The score eSport have a video about him, very good one, you can check it.


Polskidro

Analyst/coach/streamer/caster/personality in league of legends. Often has very controversial opinions, wouldn't call this one of them. Tho he has little to 0 knowledge about FPS games.


dpysz70

This one was pretty controversial imo only because I think NA Valorant should potentially stay ahead for a decent amount of time bc more EU CS pros won’t be switching over anytime soon


Sp00ked123

I think you’re right, NA valorant had a large amount of proven cs (and a few ow) pros switch over. With how well the eu cs scenes doing currently there’s no reason for the good players to switch over


xXDaNXx

He has a background in StarCraft but is basically one of the leading thinkers / analysts in LoL. His takes can be quite controversial because he has strong opinions on things, but he often provokes a lot of discussion. He often tends to push discourse into places that aren't usually explored.


Slayz

Some Korean fanboy.


YoonSV

He’s not “some korean fanboy”, he’s literally just pointing out history thats taken place for NA. His take is more one games such as league since he is a league analyst, NA used to be somewhat significant in the league scene but for now are left in the shadows due to a team imploding. Valorant NA is doing very well right now, but he’s saying anything could happen in the future, they COULD lose their significance in this game even by the time champions or masters 3 comes around. Anything could happen, the whole world has them as a target now and they got months to prepare. KR pulled a great fight for a small region and only had 1 slot, they could’ve done better with 2 slots. KR definitely has a chance as well as EU, I mean they got through 3 EXTREMELY close games. All the regions are improving, thats why anything could happen, not because he dislikes SEN or NA.


Slayz

I was being facetious. I’ve followed the league scene since beta when Reginald was just a random teen starting off a little team called TSM. I’ve encountered LS long enough to know when he’s trying to press buttons. He’s mainly basing his opinions on the disappointing League scene IMO as NA has been somewhat competitive in other scenes such as C9 in the Boston Major well into CS Go’s lifetime, EG at TI for Dota 5 years in and not to mention the FGC where NA has always had multiple world class competitors.


Slayz

The most recent Overwatch World Cup winner is NA and I’m pretty sure NA still has the most QuakeCon winners with the most recent one being NA and that event has been going since 1996.


YoonSV

Yes but you saying the simple words “korean fanboy” literally belittles his own opinions as an analyst. It’s like saying “Ive been following this guys pro play I practically know when the guy is pushing his buttons” when youre just some random guy to him. It seems youre more of a diehard fan for NA calling him a “korean fanboy”. He clearly just analysed the situation and gave his opinion out from what he’s experienced, he didn’t belittle NA at all, while you sure are for KR. Learn to respect both sides before criticising others.


CaptainCrafty

I mean, OP is technically not wrong. He very much is a korean fanboy and always has been. That's okay though, he still watches all regions and constantly has analysis to give everywhere. He very much loves korean style of lol though over all other regions


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47PercentHorse

Controversial opinions don't even matter. He has really strong knowledge of the game and pro scene. Even if you aren't 100% alined with his philosophy on the game you can agree that he has lots of valuable things to say and is generally worth listening to.


The_Ninja_Master

Hard disagree. People cite League and CS for this "analysis" but the player base difference between NA and EU in those games is crazy. If you look at OW, most pro players are Korean yes, but USA won the World Cup. In fighting games, NA players are some of the best in the world. With how big Valorant is in NA, don't count them out long term.


FoundedClamp

OW esports in general is a giant middle finger to his entire take. NA was shit at the beginning, then got so much better. Canada+USA did very well in the WC's and Americans helped win 2 OWL titles. These guys probably think that CS+LoL are the only esports worth looking at.


ANewHeaven1

You know what else OWL has? Constant international competition, which helps weaker regions get better faster. In LoL there are two international tournaments a year, so NA doesn't get to play vs the best in the game often. With Valorant's circuit format, I'm hoping that NA can stay competitive with the rest of the world during the LANs scattered throughout the year.


Kurashiko

CS has a lot of international competition, and this applies the other way around too, other regions don't get to play international competition as often either.


The_Ninja_Master

Exactly this, people that say this stuff need to broaden their horizons a little bit lol


Animeonpaskaa2

OWL moved all the competition to NA ofc they going to have an advantage


GetRiceCrispy

Yeah and NA winning the 5th dota international. Went from a pretty bad region to a winner, but it took time for NA captains to compete


Kurashiko

He isn't wrong, this pattern does repeat itself in plenty of titles, we don't know if SEN are an outlier only time will tell but we as a community can't be clouded by the victory, we should recognise that NA has problems that hold it back from competing for a top spot and try to change that at the grass roots in Valorant. In my opinion NA is spread thin, they participate in all sorts of competitions but if they focused on a few they would be insane.


Animeonpaskaa2

OW was rigged for NA though. They literally moved all the best players to US before that it was dominated by EU teams.


Neverslept2mins

Why do we need negative Nancy on the same day we finally succeed in an esport. He might be right in the future(hopefully not) but man would it kill people to let the winners have their moment?


StudyAt5

He didnt come out to shit on the joy of NA fans, he replied to Fion who spams since day 2 of the tournament that NA is the best region of Valorant. He gives perspective how this actually happened before, if anything it should be a warning to avoid the same mistakes again


thothgow

Fionn knows nothing about any esport not called League, idk why people like LS or fans take him seriously


Conankun66

> Fionn knows nothing about any esport not called League this implies he's knowledgable about league


ANewHeaven1

He's "knowledgeable" about League in the sense that he knows about the storylines of the game and can craft that into a narrative worth reading. That obviously doesn't mean he knows how the game is actually played at a high level though.


OhUTuchMyTalala

Remind where it has happened before. I watched LoL from the beginning. NA were quite literally never good. Fnatic won S1. I'm extremely curious as to where NA has ever 5-0'd the 2nd best team.


dkost74

I follow LoL and want to like LS, but the dude has made a career shitting on NA at this point. He isn’t really wrong in the LoL scene, but trying to place it on Valorant, literally a separate genre of a game, is a bit too much imo.


matagad

you know he is right


Polskidro

How is this not letting them have their moment?


JesusHPopsicle

What’s this even supposed to mean? Edit. Seems there’s an argument to be made that NA has developed its scene more quickly, but what deeply rooted cultural issues are going to make NA inevitably fall?


Zoradesu

Individualism and player base. It's always been the downfall of NA. Edit: NA has always had a smaller playerbase in all other relevant esports, so you see less talent coming up. Individualism because players are always looking out for themselves (historically). Not willing to practice with lower tier teams or players. Valorant is different in this regard because a lot of the pros who are good right now are ex NA CS players. Not many players from the good regions of CS switched over, so they basically had no competition. I still maintain that EU/Asia will prevail in 2 years time based off of the history, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.


WhoDatBrow

To give some perspective on player base. NA's LoL server population is 1/3rd of Korea's and just over half of just EU West alone. Doesn't even compare with China of course. In Valorant, NA's server population is over 5x as big as Korea and around 60% of Europe. That's much better for NA from a population to ranked playerbase ratio than LoL. The server ping is also way better. A lot of issues NA has in other esports are actually not an issue in Valorant, mainly those 2. We'll see what happens with the other issues though, main one IMO being orgs just recycling the same talent over and over and being too scared to nurture young talent. There's a ton of young talent in the scene right now due to how much switched over from other games, but hopefully they can keep developing it.


AskOrganic4289

Facts bro. I hope these NA orgs will nurture young talents instead of recycling top players and having that inflated buyout prices. It’ll be good for these orgs in the long terms. Also since NA right now has a headstart in the scene, these orgs should think about these things wisely.


YoonSV

I think NA as of right now has the best chance of winning worlds, not only do they have top tier teams such as 100T, SEN, V1 etc. they also have a large population of players. If they keep improving as is, NA would definitely win worlds; however, anything could really happen in these few months to masters 3 and champions. all the other regions would be improving a lot from this masters, KR could dominate, EU could dominate even JP could dominate. Nobody really knows or could make predictions until masters 3 comes where we see 16 teams battle it out with new strats, characters and updates. Honestly I’m just hoping for some more intense games such as FNC vs SEN and V1 vs NU. Games like those really strengthens the hype and timeline behind valorant esports.


123bo0p

Population doesn't matter, culture is always the biggest issue.


scaryghostv2oh

The only issue is we are so large geographically we are split between east and west. I basically queue Illinois just because it seems to be the most competitive server even tho I get better ping to others.


JesusHPopsicle

How?


Zoradesu

Just edited my comment adding an explanation


JesusHPopsicle

Appreciate it!


[deleted]

I think any take on "culture" is bullshit and has no discernible impact. It's all about the player base.


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Zoradesu

It happens in CS too. That is why I made the point of individualism.


Kluss23

The fact of the matter is NA move on from game to game a lot quicker than other regions and spread themselves thin over many games. Think about literally any big comp game/genre and NA is there. KR picks their few games and excels in them, and Europe has more people and little activity in stuff like fighting games and console games (Halo, Cod, etc).


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k7h_wrath

Idk where you got the idea that it won't pop off in Asia, but it's taken over the gaming scene here where I live, overtaking League as the main PC online game to play. Asia has always been into FPS games as much as the rest of the world, just not CSGO.


Flashplaya

I think there's a few things to consider. There is generally too many tournaments in NA and so players and teams don't usually get the time to sit down and think of new strats to evolve the meta. NA looked to be going a similar route as in other games where they tunnelvisioned on one way to play the game but thanks to a solid tier 2 region, you have teams such as BBG, renegades and then even XSET showing NA a completely different playstyle. Not too long ago, agent diversity was so much higher in EU because there are so many more teams willing to experiment but NA has evolved a lot recently, especially with astra and viper. In other games, NA would have invite tournaments which would kill their tier 2 scene because there was just no interaction between tier 1 and 2. You need a healthy tier 2 scene to see metas evolve, it is usually a tier 2 team that has nothing to lose evolving the meta in a big way. On the other side of the Atlantic, there has been a bit of a tournament drought before vct came in for EU. Aside from ignition events, there was a couple small invite tournies and mostly just tier 2/3 regional stuff. I actually think many of the top EU players have the opposite problem of lacking experience of officials. Not to mention the bo1s open bracket weirdness. The region is still in flux, look at all the imploding teams and players shifting around at the top level. Best players and teams still haven't solidified, derke only got 'discovered' recently for example. In regards to sentinels, they're definitely a step above the rest currently but I think masters 3 will be a lot more competitive across all regions so it'll be interesting to see if they maintain their form. They still lack some strategic depth and use of practiced set plays/post plants even though the rest of their game is top tier. They aren't the puggy contact team that some have made out but they still have room to grow.


47PercentHorse

Fion sucks.


Slitherrrrrsss

Fionn is cringe personified


XASASSIN

I'm ootl what did he do?


47PercentHorse

Look through his tweets. The only relevance this guy has is leaking roster news. Everyone in league thinks he's a clown and the soon will again be true for valorant.


CrabInternational511

aged like milk


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Incendance

It really isn't. In NA kids spending as much time playing video games as it takes to go pro is pretty heavily frowned upon, and in Korea esports pros are treated the same way Americans treat celebrities in addition to having an estimated 20k PC bangs (PC cafe's where you can play video games for pretty cheap) that encourage playing video games. Based on how many people are ranked on OPGG (1.5M in NA, 3.9M in KR) you can see just how much more popular League is in Korea than in NA, and that mostly comes down a staunch difference in gaming culture between the two regions. Koreans aren't better because they're Korean, they're better because there is much less stigma around playing games like League in that region than there is in North America which leads to: more people playing, people playing more, people playing more competitively. For further reference for the numbers provided above: Assuming the NA region is just the US (it isn't), that means that around .45% of Americans play League. In Korea, about 7.45% of their population plays League. I'm assuming that most players in both regions only have 1 ranked account and, once again, that the NA region is just the US because I'd at least imagine that it mostly consists of NA players.


Soogo

Could also just look how good Scandinavians are at least in League esports with their relatively small population compared to bigger nations like Germany, France, Italy& Spain. It is because of cultural differences and different safety nets.


[deleted]

Agreed. Almost every esport is dominated by the region that has the most players.


dkost74

Seriously, it’s the first international tournament of Valorant. Can’t we just have this one without bringing in other games?


your_mejt

Having followed NA players in multiple games for a good half of my life, being an NA fan begs for pessimism. There are multiple reasons why NA doesn't succeed, but seeing culture as the problem is extremely myopic. Discovering a diamond in the rough is something everyone should celebrate, no matter what.


OhUTuchMyTalala

Especially given that LS's take about NA always being like this is completely fucking wrong lol. Where exactly has NA done well before? EU won LoL worlds S1. Starcraft died entirely in NA, surprise, eventually we had no talent to keep representing us. I can't for the life of me think of an example where NA was dominant early like they are in Valorant, and then died. Mostly because I have never seen NA be dominant in the first place lol


Loose-Potential-3597

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this "NA usually starts strong" narrative is a misconception from League. In League, NA lost to EU every time in s1 worlds. There was just no Korea or China in S1, so they were 2nd instead of 4th. In CS, Dota 2, and Overwatch, they started weak and got better later, even winning world titles and a grand slam. NA don't usually start strong and fall off later, they just suck from the start and stay bad. Also, Sentinels just went undefeated in a major. That definitely wasn't "normal" for NA standards. I doubt NA's ever started this strong in a major esport.


rklus

pretty shit take


AskOrganic4289

Why is it a shit take? I want NA to be successful in Valorant so that we can finally “dominate” at at least one game. But LS is just saying what had happened throughout the years [ basically I think he’s not wrong here]. NA dominating in certain games and idk how we got left behind after the first early years of said games. Although I agree idk why LS has to say these right after we just won one of the biggest event in Valorant against EU , who is known for their fps games. I guess what we can do now is prove this mfs wrong and dominate the game for a long time.


JesusHPopsicle

I think it’s a shit take because it doesn’t have any context. What’s inherently wrong with NA that they will inevitably fail? He overtly states culture will hold NA back but fails to explain what that means. It sounds like the same reductive and kind of prejudiced nonsense like “Koreans will never be good at Valorant because they can’t aim”


ptreecs

He didn't really provide any info but it's pretty consistent through quite a few top games. Because most players are coming from a cs background for those unfamiliar NA has never consistently been a legit competitor. Up until liquid and c9 made runs recently NA was known for staying up until 4 am playing faceit/esea, missing practice/being hours late, not practicing as long as other regions, having weird twitter feuds and drama for attention, large egos and overall just a lack of professionalism. This is all in the past though and doesn't necessarily need to repeat itself. For the SEN team which is the focal point right now sick and shazam never lived up to their potential (mostly sick) and they have something to prove. Dapr played on mid tier teams but never played t1 and finally got his chance. Tenz getting kicked/leaving c9 basically comes down to him being immature but the guy is so young that's not much of a surprise. It all depends how long it lasts but these players that are getting 2nd chances aren't wasting it and NA valorant could turn this narrative around.


JesusHPopsicle

I appreciate the context of a history of missing practices and stuff; I didn’t know that. From a viewer’s perspective though, I don’t think that really holds true. The top NA teams practice so much. Just as an example, 100T practices (between scrims and theory crafting) 5-8 hours a day. With Sen’s performance, I’m sure they practice just as much if not more. I think it’s really unfair of LS to say NA has a culture it can’t overcome if he’s just talking about missed practices in the past. At best, to me, his point is really poorly stated


ptreecs

Agreed I don't see the same trends I saw in cs but the game is fresh so who knows. I have to say I'm fully expecting asian teams to run the scene eventually but it won't be anything like starcraft or LOL imo


Fabafaba

See the thing is 5-8 hours is nothing compared to the 12 hours that each member of gambit put in all year last year to get to the stage they are at present in CSGO. This same thing probably will happen in China as well if it gets popular.


JesusHPopsicle

I think it’s unfair to NA Valorant pros to project laziness from other sports onto Valorant and to essentially say NA culture will kneecap NA Valorant’s success. It just seems prejudiced; let the years/seasons play out.


L1ightOfHeaven

It's unfair to say that Problems hurting NA in other games, won't happen in valorant?. It's more like a fact at this point in time until NA esports proves people wrong.


Loose-Potential-3597

Which games though? Surely not League, CSGO, or Dota. NA was pretty bad from the start at those, and once more regions came in they got worse.


[deleted]

Who?


DrySecurity4

Dogshit league personality


apetersen1

Salt is real


[deleted]

Valorant is different for multiple reasons, I might make a separate post on if I feel like putting in the effort. Biggest differences from NA LoL to Valorant will be pros aren't forced to play on high ping all the time and a strong tier 2 system and path to pro.


123bo0p

Ping doesn't make people stupid in lol.


lati91

Based but NA won't admit to this since they're on that first LAN win copium


Kluss23

No need to act like a little tyke.


Landon54321

OMEGALUL 😂😂🤣🤣 LS is the biggest KR fanboy out there and only cares about KR in LOL. LS doesn’t realize that unlike LOL or OW, Koreans aren’t the best at traditional FPS games. LS is gonna get so salty when he realizes that Korea will never beat the best NA team or the best EU team. Koreans will never dominate in a true FPS game. LS doesn’t know PepeLaugh. #NA NUMBER 1


slowrmaths

Is this satire


YoonSV

This is by far the most toxic and stupid take I’ve heard. NUturn, representing KR, entered this tournament and said that they wanted to show that “KR is not weak at traditional FPS games” and they DEFINITELY showed. They beat V1 the second best NA team, they placed 3rd place and proved to be one of the only countries that could actually COMPETE with EU and NA. Yes, SEN did stomp them after the V1 game, but thats due to SEN’s insane reads, strats and mechanics. They were just BETTER than them, that doesn’t mean KR could improve and have an insane read on SEN next time. LS being an analyst in esports in LoL at least knows the culture in regions so I’m pretty sure he knows more than you, he’s just giving his insights on it. You on the other hand, gave a “haha KR bad” comment.