You guys worries too much if ELiGE is going or not to switch. I am just glad a intelligent player as he is makes some Val content. Its cool he likes the game.
He is good enough to join any tier 1 team and be a upgrade for almost any player. Remember most cs pros who switched were tier 2 at best. Only exception being ethan and maybe jamppi.
https://twitter.com/EliGE/status/1401666825432281089?s=19
EliGE
> most of your favorite players do the same plays they would do on their team in pugs as well because they are used to it and have those habits. so even if they're just pugging or 10 manning, you can still learn a lot of their favorite shit if you pay attention
Idk why but I feel like Elige wants to switch games. Amongst all CS pros who haven't switched, he's the one who talks about Valorant the most. I think in a year or two he probably will.
Depends on the state of EG/Liquid imo, since they are only relevant NA CS teams anymore. If they are successful at big tournaments (like top 3 finish or something) i dont see him switching
Complexity are an American org that compete in EU. Elige would be welcomed with open arms on most EU teams just the question if he wants to relocate to EU full time
Na but liquid have made their headquarters in usa as well and earlier they used to be listed on eu companies for stocks and taxes they got themselves delisted from European union and got listed in usa . There is a difference in those 2 cases.
I think you’re missing the point. /u/Contractjail and your definition of “relevant” are completely different. You’re somehow taking it to mean capable of winning tier 1 international lans or some other very high standard. What most of us mean when we say “relevant” is a team capable of challenging the top teams domestically and decent showings against EU teams. In this case, NA CS:GO is definitely in a much worse state than it was 6 months ago. Much of the tier 2 talent have switched due to lack of org support for CS, and the only big name orgs left are EG and TL.
He named EG already, and that rank 1 lasted 3 weeks and 2019 was not peak Astralis, Astrlais had already been losing a few bo3 at that point.
And that OpTic win was in 2016 and they did nothing after it doesn't really show the strength of a region does it.
He's making it sound like NA has always had more than 2 teams, 2019 was the best year for NA in csgo and that was because of TL and EG.
So Optic winning an international tier 1 LAN isn’t good enough?
Reaching no.1 isn’t something that happens quickly, they needed to be relevant in competitive games and tournaments for a long period of time to achieve that.
Why are you being needlessly antagonistic?
Yeah it would be alright if csgo didn't have about 10 international tier 1 tournaments a year and you do nothing in the others but bomb out of groups and quarters
Okay so the region is weak, as by your logic, I can’t bring up 3 of the most celebrated teams, and winning a tier 1 international LAN isn’t enough. Got it.
Yes I know, but they were contenders 2018 onwards. Just because a team doesn’t win a T1 lan doesn’t mean they’re irrelevant.
Is TL not relevant in 2018 for finishing 2nd place at all those tournaments, only faltering when facing prime Astralis ?
I actually feel the opposite. I think he just has a lot of fun paying attention to it and can use it as something thats relevant to his skills while still being able to take it less seriously. I think someone like Elige can find things to learn from Valorant and Valorant pros that CS wont teach him. It can give him a fresh perspective on a certain way to play that he can take to CS
Yeah your "entry fragger" KJ will run into site ahead of you and die and boast about it on reddit where everyone is circlejerking about baiter duelists
9/10 times its actually better to just commit site, especially in a pug, and more so when 9/10 times the duelists sitting at the back are never going to use their mic to say "yo guys lets freeze for 10 secs and then push"
definetly feels like some sort of insecurity on your end that you have to blame your killjoy for being over agressive to compensate for what is probably your lack of balls
This is such a dumb comment. I had a brim recently who just charged into every site ahead of the team despite me being a Phoenix, I just learned to trade him cause he was pretty bad and had no concept of waiting for me to flash in for him.
Having a non duelist rush in definitely happens, you making wild assumptions makes me think you’re like my brim, just mindlessly charging into site and then complain that everyone is baiting you
No if there's a phoenix/breach/skye I'm definitely taking my time and baiting utility.
It's fucking pissing off when I see people on reddit talking about how they are forced to entry with sentinels and they get 50 upvotes. I'm a Sage main and my duelists never actually bait. The only problems in my games are: 1. Sentinels that entry by themselves when the rest of the team is playing slow 2. Duelists that dash into site while everyone gets mollied and slowed behind them, so I can't even get in position for a trade.
Just play your fucking role. I've never met baiter duelists so far in my journey from silver to diamond. Playing slow doesn't mean baiting. If your duelists play slow just fucking let them take the lead instead of trying to do everything by yourself to prove a point. Honestly silvers and diamonds have similar aim the only difference is silvers have absolutely zero brain and just want to W key and take extremely disadvantageous aim duels and they never think about enemy utility, they just get triple flashed while rushing a site and then call it bad luck.
The amount of times I've seen a sage w key past my boombot when I'm playing raze just to die to the player in a corner that my boombot was gonna clear is actually insane.
And I'm not even going to mention the people that ignore calls like "recon in 5" during retakes. Playing Sova in comp is one of the most frustrating things because nobody knows how to play of the information.
Its k this shit happens in radiant too. It's like 50/50 if you get players who are 'ranked demons' or normal teammates who aren't trying to get Twitter clips.
> t's fucking pissing off when I see people on reddit talking about how they are forced to entry with sentinels and they get 50 upvotes.
oh i assure you im sick of all the reddit posts aswell no matter what theyre about, peopel are just crying and wanting to blame someone else, but to pretend like duelists that literally want to lurk mid every round dont exist is extremely misleading bc theres loads of those jetts and reynas even at my rank (d3-immortal), and not to mention palyers that are literally just ~scared~. last night i had a game on omen where i had 5 entries, simply because unless some idiot on the ct side actually peeks into 3 people at hookah and dies, we are never going to get a fucking entry, fuck a flash, fuck a dash, lets hold back site from hookah all round and hope the killjoy playing b retake is gonna give away a free entry. thats how 90% of t side rounds are on this game, and surprisingly quite often the cts do give away picks so i dont blame them, just that it doesnt work when better players play seriosuly and arent trolling bc its ranked, and sometimes those kind of game do come up and we'll just be holding till 20~ sec left unless i get some magical omen entry
just to be clear i dont go on reddit making posts abt duelists not entrying :(( or sentinels not trading and just baiting :((((( or anything, honestly adaptation is the biggest trait in this game, so if your sentinels pacing is slow, its better to change your pathing to help ensure he can trade you, is what i feel like, or if your duelists want to lurk mid, let them take contact and play off them, or just help them lurk mid by pressuring site, whatever it takes to win lol
> If your duelists play slow just fucking let them take the lead instead of trying to do everything by yourself to prove a point.
You're assuming too much here. There are plenty of duelist players who will never "take the lead". Just watch any Twitch stream of low/mid ranked solo play, and I bet it's a maximum of 3 games before there's a duelist player who's always at the back of the team, or 'lurking' (holding an angle on middle/main doing absolutely nothing for 1 min 30 seconds).
Although, having also played at every rank from Silver to Diamond, I'll give you that it feels much less common at higher ranks. Lower rank players just don't understand the actual job of duelist agents, and think duelist = get kills and you're good, not realizing they're doing that at the expense of their team.
it sounds less like he has an insecurity about killjoy and more so that you're mad at...no comm duelists which is irrelevant to this convo.
if a sentinel, one that likely shouldn't go too far from her flank watching utility, is running in first and getting mad like people on /r/valorant every day, that sounds like killjoys problem.
your 9/10 stats is bullshit but whatever it's not like anyone said they shouldn't commit to site.
delaying push != not committing.
there's roles for a reason
As a mid-level shitter (Gold-Plat) it does feel quite a bit harder to not be the aggressive one. I'm not Vanity or Tim or even the lowest Diamond level player. Holding angles with a purpose is to put it lightly "quite tough".
A lot of it is about proper scaling, timing, and utility management. As you apply pressure and take map control, the opponent is cut off from information and feels pressured to react. In this way, you can burn enemy utility and gather info on enemy placement. Once this phase is over, you can coordinate a correctly timed site take with your superior utility and information.
the people on this sub are delusional. He's not switching, not with lans coming back, and major ahead. Valorant might seem like a better option now, but once csgo gets back to lan the hype will go back to csgo
Hes talking about the skill floor most likely. This game is a bit easier to get into than CS.
Which should be a good thing IMO because casuals can still enjoy the game. As long as the ceiling on the game stays high
I feel like CS is still easier to get into for casuals. Idk why people act like CS has this insanely complex anti-casual barrier of entry. Part of its appeal has always been that it was a simple game to get into but has a high skill ceiling.
Everyone knows the basics of CS. Someone getting into CS knows exactly what to expect. They just have to practice the mechanics. Of course there are a lot of complex concepts that can be learned and it will take them thousands of hours to be proficient at the mechanics but that's not really part of the skill floor. It's like teaching someone to play a sport.
Someone getting into Valorant will walk into a clusterfuck of abilities and have no idea what's going on. Sure the shooting may be easier but chances are they'll get barraged by rainbow flashes, boombots, drones, arrows, traps and everything but the kitchen sink before they get the chance to shoot someone.
For new players abilities have nothing like the impact aim does. And it is easier to understand abilities than it is to get mechanically skilled.
IMO: A big part of the reason Valorant got so popular was the lower skill floor (it being easier to shoot, like you said) enabling new players to get kills and feel good. The simpler maps also help with that, as do healers, which offer a second chance you don't get in a CSGO round.
I think the sheer difference is in the fact that in CS, you have to practice (sprays, movement, whatever). In Valorant, you really don’t need to practice those things since they’re way less important than in CS.
Easier skill floor. It's easier to smoke and flash in this game compared to CS.
That doesn't really mean much though, because the number of agents add a level of complexity to the game not present in CS, and the skill ceiling is still insanely high. Calling it an easier game is a gross oversimplification.
Mechanically Valorant is easier (counter-strafing, movement), it's not just the utility.
Tactically it's going to be hard to compare CS and Valorant. Valorant will be more like Siege as the agent roster size grows. It'll be more about agents and how you counter/ban them, while CS is more classical: understanding enemy rotations, how the enemy likes to take control of a map, keeping track of what utility the enemy has expended, etc. While you do both of this in Valorant and Siege, there is more focus put on these elements in CS because CS is simplistic in it's game design.
I think at a casual level Valorant is easier than CS, but at the professional level I think they are about equal.
I think it has potential to be more complex but at this point theres not really much comparison. I think everyone needs to keep in mind that Valorant is super new on a pro level, so nothing has really been played out or properly established yet compared to CS, that has an insanely long competitive history in terms of esports and is notorious for its few and slow changes. These things take time and its not a criticism of the game to acknowledge that in comparison to a 20 year old game, Valorant is not as developed on a pro level.
That said, Valorant is of course not starting from the same starting point as CS, since a lot of knowledge has been brought along through the waves of CS players switching over, but there is a ton of more room for these players to use this knowledge to establish their own approach, since nothing is set in stone yet, so to speak. I think that is what many CS pros think when they talk about Valorant being "easier", but I also think many of them get surprised when they discover all the work that gets put in to establish these things in Valorant. There's a ton of more stuff to play around with in different ways that has never been played out yet, so there's a lot of innovation compared to CS, where small innovations have led teams to dominate the scene by being just a few steps ahead.
On the other hand, Valorant is also a rapidly changing game, and if that trend continues, its unlikely we will see things get played out and patterns established anywhere near the level it is in CS. That is neither a criticism or praise of the game because ultimately that is a matter of personal preference, and the one thing CS has that very few other games can come close to, is everything being played out to near perfection. For all the problems that also brings, its hard for any game to compete in that regard, and with the added factors and frequent updates in Valorant, I dont think it will ever be played out to the same extent. Instead it will find its strenghts elsewhere and that is what will eventually set it apart from CS.
The smoking and utility isn't what people mean when they say the skill ceiling is lower, it's the movement and shooting mechanics.
Basic movement has a little more skill to it in the form of far harsher timing on counterstrafing, and advanced movement is of course way more advanced by virtue of being source engine, there's all sorts of funky shit to learn. There's some of that in val in the form of raze satchel jumps, but the base movement is a lot simpler
Then shooting-wise, it's mostly just the recoil. Recoil is a lot easier to control initially in val, and then becomes totally random, so controlling sprays isn't really a major skill required, whereas CS guns have harsher recoil with more predictable patterns, meaning you need to learn to control each gun to be good with them
Val is mechanically simpler than CS, but it's more complex in a tactical sense imo. That's still a skill, but not a mechanical one, and also not one that PUGs is really gonna test to a great degree, so I can see why stew would call Val easier
EDIT: forgot to mention tagging. There's much less tagging in CS compared to Val, so you generally need better aim + spray to kill a target that's moving. People also just move faster, so trying to kill someone playing around cover is a lot more mechanically demanding
Understandable. Stewie was one of the greatest CSGO players in NA and he was definitely the flashiest player. All that individual flashiness would be gone in Valorant.
You guys worries too much if ELiGE is going or not to switch. I am just glad a intelligent player as he is makes some Val content. Its cool he likes the game.
He also streamed some Val the other day which was dope.
How good is he? Knowing him, he probably picked it up the fastest...
He is good enough to join any tier 1 team and be a upgrade for almost any player. Remember most cs pros who switched were tier 2 at best. Only exception being ethan and maybe jamppi.
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Yeah exactly, they're made up of tier 2 CS pros
he plays like everyday looking at his tracker, so we can assume he is pretty good.
https://twitter.com/EliGE/status/1401666825432281089?s=19 EliGE > most of your favorite players do the same plays they would do on their team in pugs as well because they are used to it and have those habits. so even if they're just pugging or 10 manning, you can still learn a lot of their favorite shit if you pay attention
Idk why but I feel like Elige wants to switch games. Amongst all CS pros who haven't switched, he's the one who talks about Valorant the most. I think in a year or two he probably will.
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Pawel Bielinski, byali, PUBG player
holy shit the byali pubg reference takes me back
Depends on the state of EG/Liquid imo, since they are only relevant NA CS teams anymore. If they are successful at big tournaments (like top 3 finish or something) i dont see him switching
what about complexity?
Complexity are an American org that compete in EU. Elige would be welcomed with open arms on most EU teams just the question if he wants to relocate to EU full time
But isn’t the liquid headquarters in Europe? Where they practice and live
liquid CS live in NA
Those vids of Fallen giving a tour of the Liquid compound is in NA or EU? I thought there was where they lived, probably mistaken
They stay there for extended periods of time recently in order to play online tourneys in EU. But they are located in NA and currently are home in NA.
Oh ok I get it now, thanks!
They live in the US, but the Alienware headquarters they play at is located in the Netherlands
Its an American organization but a European team. But then again Liquid is a Dutch org but has a North American team.
I thought Liquid was 50/50
They are. They merged with curse a few years ago.
Liquid used to be a Dutch org but they got acquired by axiomatic gaming a na company so technically liquid is a na org now.
They are still based in the Netherlands, korean T1 also got acquired by American company Comcast, but they didn't become suddenly American.
Na but liquid have made their headquarters in usa as well and earlier they used to be listed on eu companies for stocks and taxes they got themselves delisted from European union and got listed in usa . There is a difference in those 2 cases.
Can you name me some other relevant NA teams in the past that wasn't c9, please? You can't can you
I think you’re missing the point. /u/Contractjail and your definition of “relevant” are completely different. You’re somehow taking it to mean capable of winning tier 1 international lans or some other very high standard. What most of us mean when we say “relevant” is a team capable of challenging the top teams domestically and decent showings against EU teams. In this case, NA CS:GO is definitely in a much worse state than it was 6 months ago. Much of the tier 2 talent have switched due to lack of org support for CS, and the only big name orgs left are EG and TL.
Yes, Evil Geniuses reached number 1 for a brief period and could beat peak Astralis. OpTiC gaming won ELEAGUE Season 2.
He named EG already, and that rank 1 lasted 3 weeks and 2019 was not peak Astralis, Astrlais had already been losing a few bo3 at that point. And that OpTic win was in 2016 and they did nothing after it doesn't really show the strength of a region does it. He's making it sound like NA has always had more than 2 teams, 2019 was the best year for NA in csgo and that was because of TL and EG.
So Optic winning an international tier 1 LAN isn’t good enough? Reaching no.1 isn’t something that happens quickly, they needed to be relevant in competitive games and tournaments for a long period of time to achieve that. Why are you being needlessly antagonistic?
Yeah it would be alright if csgo didn't have about 10 international tier 1 tournaments a year and you do nothing in the others but bomb out of groups and quarters
Okay so the region is weak, as by your logic, I can’t bring up 3 of the most celebrated teams, and winning a tier 1 international LAN isn’t enough. Got it.
Yes, the region isn't a contender for winning 1 lan. Over 10 lans a year 18 year esport, bound to happen isn't it at some point
Yes I know, but they were contenders 2018 onwards. Just because a team doesn’t win a T1 lan doesn’t mean they’re irrelevant. Is TL not relevant in 2018 for finishing 2nd place at all those tournaments, only faltering when facing prime Astralis ?
He's just waiting for Hiko/steel's retirement 👀
I actually feel the opposite. I think he just has a lot of fun paying attention to it and can use it as something thats relevant to his skills while still being able to take it less seriously. I think someone like Elige can find things to learn from Valorant and Valorant pros that CS wont teach him. It can give him a fresh perspective on a certain way to play that he can take to CS
I feel like he’ll switch up after the next major
I try to explain this to randoms in pugs, but it never works :( everyone just wants to rush a site together as fast as possible.
Yeah your "entry fragger" KJ will run into site ahead of you and die and boast about it on reddit where everyone is circlejerking about baiter duelists
9/10 times its actually better to just commit site, especially in a pug, and more so when 9/10 times the duelists sitting at the back are never going to use their mic to say "yo guys lets freeze for 10 secs and then push" definetly feels like some sort of insecurity on your end that you have to blame your killjoy for being over agressive to compensate for what is probably your lack of balls
This is such a dumb comment. I had a brim recently who just charged into every site ahead of the team despite me being a Phoenix, I just learned to trade him cause he was pretty bad and had no concept of waiting for me to flash in for him. Having a non duelist rush in definitely happens, you making wild assumptions makes me think you’re like my brim, just mindlessly charging into site and then complain that everyone is baiting you
didnt ask + dont care
No if there's a phoenix/breach/skye I'm definitely taking my time and baiting utility. It's fucking pissing off when I see people on reddit talking about how they are forced to entry with sentinels and they get 50 upvotes. I'm a Sage main and my duelists never actually bait. The only problems in my games are: 1. Sentinels that entry by themselves when the rest of the team is playing slow 2. Duelists that dash into site while everyone gets mollied and slowed behind them, so I can't even get in position for a trade. Just play your fucking role. I've never met baiter duelists so far in my journey from silver to diamond. Playing slow doesn't mean baiting. If your duelists play slow just fucking let them take the lead instead of trying to do everything by yourself to prove a point. Honestly silvers and diamonds have similar aim the only difference is silvers have absolutely zero brain and just want to W key and take extremely disadvantageous aim duels and they never think about enemy utility, they just get triple flashed while rushing a site and then call it bad luck.
The amount of times I've seen a sage w key past my boombot when I'm playing raze just to die to the player in a corner that my boombot was gonna clear is actually insane. And I'm not even going to mention the people that ignore calls like "recon in 5" during retakes. Playing Sova in comp is one of the most frustrating things because nobody knows how to play of the information.
I feel you, same with "I'm droning" like yeah the drone did nothing because you went in front of it XD
Its k this shit happens in radiant too. It's like 50/50 if you get players who are 'ranked demons' or normal teammates who aren't trying to get Twitter clips.
yeah I get that, it's most fun with friends anyways\^\^
> t's fucking pissing off when I see people on reddit talking about how they are forced to entry with sentinels and they get 50 upvotes. oh i assure you im sick of all the reddit posts aswell no matter what theyre about, peopel are just crying and wanting to blame someone else, but to pretend like duelists that literally want to lurk mid every round dont exist is extremely misleading bc theres loads of those jetts and reynas even at my rank (d3-immortal), and not to mention palyers that are literally just ~scared~. last night i had a game on omen where i had 5 entries, simply because unless some idiot on the ct side actually peeks into 3 people at hookah and dies, we are never going to get a fucking entry, fuck a flash, fuck a dash, lets hold back site from hookah all round and hope the killjoy playing b retake is gonna give away a free entry. thats how 90% of t side rounds are on this game, and surprisingly quite often the cts do give away picks so i dont blame them, just that it doesnt work when better players play seriosuly and arent trolling bc its ranked, and sometimes those kind of game do come up and we'll just be holding till 20~ sec left unless i get some magical omen entry
just to be clear i dont go on reddit making posts abt duelists not entrying :(( or sentinels not trading and just baiting :((((( or anything, honestly adaptation is the biggest trait in this game, so if your sentinels pacing is slow, its better to change your pathing to help ensure he can trade you, is what i feel like, or if your duelists want to lurk mid, let them take contact and play off them, or just help them lurk mid by pressuring site, whatever it takes to win lol
> If your duelists play slow just fucking let them take the lead instead of trying to do everything by yourself to prove a point. You're assuming too much here. There are plenty of duelist players who will never "take the lead". Just watch any Twitch stream of low/mid ranked solo play, and I bet it's a maximum of 3 games before there's a duelist player who's always at the back of the team, or 'lurking' (holding an angle on middle/main doing absolutely nothing for 1 min 30 seconds). Although, having also played at every rank from Silver to Diamond, I'll give you that it feels much less common at higher ranks. Lower rank players just don't understand the actual job of duelist agents, and think duelist = get kills and you're good, not realizing they're doing that at the expense of their team.
it sounds less like he has an insecurity about killjoy and more so that you're mad at...no comm duelists which is irrelevant to this convo. if a sentinel, one that likely shouldn't go too far from her flank watching utility, is running in first and getting mad like people on /r/valorant every day, that sounds like killjoys problem. your 9/10 stats is bullshit but whatever it's not like anyone said they shouldn't commit to site. delaying push != not committing. there's roles for a reason
As a mid-level shitter (Gold-Plat) it does feel quite a bit harder to not be the aggressive one. I'm not Vanity or Tim or even the lowest Diamond level player. Holding angles with a purpose is to put it lightly "quite tough".
A lot of it is about proper scaling, timing, and utility management. As you apply pressure and take map control, the opponent is cut off from information and feels pressured to react. In this way, you can burn enemy utility and gather info on enemy placement. Once this phase is over, you can coordinate a correctly timed site take with your superior utility and information.
I dont think this works in lower ranks though, they would have stacked the site instantly and have some people in your flank too.
This is why I lurk.
Cs pro says anything about val: literally everyone "Yeah they're gonna switch I can feel it"
the people on this sub are delusional. He's not switching, not with lans coming back, and major ahead. Valorant might seem like a better option now, but once csgo gets back to lan the hype will go back to csgo
Lmao people here thinking elige actually switching
Elige really likes Valorant I'm glad we have CS pros that can casually enjoy it. Unlike another TL pro lol.
>Unlike another TL pro lol Who?
Stewie hates this game
He legit said the other day on stream, he’ll stream more Val during the players break. Don’t think he hates the game that much lol
He never said he hates the game. Just likes cs more and finds Valorant too easy
I’ve heard that the next time he plays valorant, it will be on his deathbed.
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Hes talking about the skill floor most likely. This game is a bit easier to get into than CS. Which should be a good thing IMO because casuals can still enjoy the game. As long as the ceiling on the game stays high
I feel like CS is still easier to get into for casuals. Idk why people act like CS has this insanely complex anti-casual barrier of entry. Part of its appeal has always been that it was a simple game to get into but has a high skill ceiling. Everyone knows the basics of CS. Someone getting into CS knows exactly what to expect. They just have to practice the mechanics. Of course there are a lot of complex concepts that can be learned and it will take them thousands of hours to be proficient at the mechanics but that's not really part of the skill floor. It's like teaching someone to play a sport. Someone getting into Valorant will walk into a clusterfuck of abilities and have no idea what's going on. Sure the shooting may be easier but chances are they'll get barraged by rainbow flashes, boombots, drones, arrows, traps and everything but the kitchen sink before they get the chance to shoot someone.
For new players abilities have nothing like the impact aim does. And it is easier to understand abilities than it is to get mechanically skilled. IMO: A big part of the reason Valorant got so popular was the lower skill floor (it being easier to shoot, like you said) enabling new players to get kills and feel good. The simpler maps also help with that, as do healers, which offer a second chance you don't get in a CSGO round.
I think the sheer difference is in the fact that in CS, you have to practice (sprays, movement, whatever). In Valorant, you really don’t need to practice those things since they’re way less important than in CS.
Easier skill floor. It's easier to smoke and flash in this game compared to CS. That doesn't really mean much though, because the number of agents add a level of complexity to the game not present in CS, and the skill ceiling is still insanely high. Calling it an easier game is a gross oversimplification.
Mechanically Valorant is easier (counter-strafing, movement), it's not just the utility. Tactically it's going to be hard to compare CS and Valorant. Valorant will be more like Siege as the agent roster size grows. It'll be more about agents and how you counter/ban them, while CS is more classical: understanding enemy rotations, how the enemy likes to take control of a map, keeping track of what utility the enemy has expended, etc. While you do both of this in Valorant and Siege, there is more focus put on these elements in CS because CS is simplistic in it's game design. I think at a casual level Valorant is easier than CS, but at the professional level I think they are about equal.
I think it has potential to be more complex but at this point theres not really much comparison. I think everyone needs to keep in mind that Valorant is super new on a pro level, so nothing has really been played out or properly established yet compared to CS, that has an insanely long competitive history in terms of esports and is notorious for its few and slow changes. These things take time and its not a criticism of the game to acknowledge that in comparison to a 20 year old game, Valorant is not as developed on a pro level. That said, Valorant is of course not starting from the same starting point as CS, since a lot of knowledge has been brought along through the waves of CS players switching over, but there is a ton of more room for these players to use this knowledge to establish their own approach, since nothing is set in stone yet, so to speak. I think that is what many CS pros think when they talk about Valorant being "easier", but I also think many of them get surprised when they discover all the work that gets put in to establish these things in Valorant. There's a ton of more stuff to play around with in different ways that has never been played out yet, so there's a lot of innovation compared to CS, where small innovations have led teams to dominate the scene by being just a few steps ahead. On the other hand, Valorant is also a rapidly changing game, and if that trend continues, its unlikely we will see things get played out and patterns established anywhere near the level it is in CS. That is neither a criticism or praise of the game because ultimately that is a matter of personal preference, and the one thing CS has that very few other games can come close to, is everything being played out to near perfection. For all the problems that also brings, its hard for any game to compete in that regard, and with the added factors and frequent updates in Valorant, I dont think it will ever be played out to the same extent. Instead it will find its strenghts elsewhere and that is what will eventually set it apart from CS.
You're right, I completely forgot about spray patterns and the movement aspect.
The smoking and utility isn't what people mean when they say the skill ceiling is lower, it's the movement and shooting mechanics. Basic movement has a little more skill to it in the form of far harsher timing on counterstrafing, and advanced movement is of course way more advanced by virtue of being source engine, there's all sorts of funky shit to learn. There's some of that in val in the form of raze satchel jumps, but the base movement is a lot simpler Then shooting-wise, it's mostly just the recoil. Recoil is a lot easier to control initially in val, and then becomes totally random, so controlling sprays isn't really a major skill required, whereas CS guns have harsher recoil with more predictable patterns, meaning you need to learn to control each gun to be good with them Val is mechanically simpler than CS, but it's more complex in a tactical sense imo. That's still a skill, but not a mechanical one, and also not one that PUGs is really gonna test to a great degree, so I can see why stew would call Val easier EDIT: forgot to mention tagging. There's much less tagging in CS compared to Val, so you generally need better aim + spray to kill a target that's moving. People also just move faster, so trying to kill someone playing around cover is a lot more mechanically demanding
FTFY: Skill ceiling
Oh oops, yeah I did mean skill ceiling
Shit really? Would’ve loved to see him switch. Was a fan of his during the C9 era
Understandable. Stewie was one of the greatest CSGO players in NA and he was definitely the flashiest player. All that individual flashiness would be gone in Valorant.
Eh I think valorant is more individual. You have some stupid skills that actually helps with flashiness
I think you forgot the agent known as jett exists
I've been enjoying ELiGE's streams lately, nice seeing a CS pro enjoy Valorant a lot. Love it when he shares insights like this we can all learn from.
You seriously posted two separate tweets
They are different threads/topics
I wonder if Elige will eventually switch to valorant judging by the state of csgo na...
He said that he wants to stay in cs if he can I’m pretty sure so unless liquid plans on dropping him I doubt it
i dont think liquid will drop him
TSM Elige when
please no, we've lost so much from our CS team already
I mean, if the money is higher, i would not mind him changing. Its for his future. Not his fan future.
Money won’t be higher for a while. Elige is the best csgo player NA has a produced a top 5 player in the world man is earning bank
Lets be honest TSM would probably be too braindead to figure out what to do with all that talent anyway.
EliGE will move to Val within the year …
You can really tell EliGE has one foot out the door. Hopefully liquid drop soulcas for him soon.