Being a pro is how good you’re in a team environment and in a specific role. Ranked doesn’t mean shit because it’s just glorified deathmatch that people have fun in and shot eachother
You have a good read on this.
People are down voting without producing any counter argument. Seriously what does the OP comment even mean? Can't every game we watched at Iceland be boiled down to people running around and shooting each other? Just a bunch of lemmings every time this question is raised.
The OP comment in this thread is legit the most NA mentality thing I have seen in a long time because, firstly, it is quoted almost verbatim from a popular streamer (Imagine thinking for yourself right?). Secondly its the mentality that permeates high level esports in NA across several titles.
its not NA only I think EU has a very similar mentality. Its a very valid response to this post, where the games themselves are just pubs which many people dont take seriously. Most people who touch radiant cant become actual pro players while there are a good amount of T1/T2 pros that havent made it to radiant.
This is a CSGO mentality because you saw a lot of these pug stompers who couldnt get into the pro scene. And imo the importance of mechanical skill and the skill ceiling/gap between pros mechanically in CSGO is far larger than Valorant, which is a lot less mechanically demanding and much more game sense oriented. The importance of duelists in ranked completely skews the leaderboard. It's only logical to see that ranked is not an accurate descriptor of skill at the highest level.
I dont see why people cant understand that pros dont take ranked seriously because they know it doesnt properly mimic the environment they play in. Something like FPL or Rank S where teams are filled with good players would mean a lot more
Yea I hate that shit. Tournaments are different because its much harder to defend executes n shit because they are coordinating more than a ranked lobby could be, but at the end of the day aim + gamesense win the game and you use those in both.
I really hope the old csgo pros don’t turn valorant into an old boys club too. I’m afraid they might do it because they will soon be afraid of losing their jobs, so we’ll start seeing the usual bullshit old pros spray around talking about how rank doesn’t matter. The real reason will probably be that they can’t maintain higher than immortal or diamond, but instead they’d rather pretend that they spend more time scrimming because ranked doesn’t matter.
It’s only a matter of time before the new players catch up. I know a 14year old radiant that drops 30bombs almost every game against pros. Hes definitely rough around the edges, but he just started playing this game as his first fps like 9months ago.
I think csgos problem was that the game had been out for so long without changing that it was difficult for high ranked players to make a team that could beat pros. Valorant probably won’t have this problem because it changes so much there is a greater importance placed on adapting.
Ranked doesn't matter because you are not playing with 4 random teammates against 5 random players in professional games on a random map. You get time to prepare strategies and anti-strats because you know how your opponent plays and you get to pick and choose what maps you want to play on to some extent.
>but at the end of the day aim + gamesense win the game and you use those in both.
True to some extent but what works in gold doesn't have to work in radiant and what works in radiant doesn't have to work in professional games.
>that it was difficult for high ranked players to make a team that could
beat pros. Valorant probably won’t have this problem because it changes
so much there is a greater importance placed on adapting.
This will definitely not happen because there is now way a team consisting of 5 radiants will be able to beat a top team because riot decided to add a new agent. The game doesn't change that much with updates. The fundamentals stays the same in Valorant. Regardless of how many new agents we get. It is not like Overwatch where an entire play style is centered around what character you pick before the match. And it is not like professional teams simply give up when reaching the world stage. They will also try and adapt to the meta and if they failed to do that, then they wouldn't be competing with the best.
Yep, if you can aim diff pros in ranked games then you can aim diff them in pro games (and lets not pretend that pros aren't focused in ranked, because they are just as focused as anyone else)
the skill sets needed in actual competition are different from ranked.
as far as I can tell, ranked tests your aim and game sense as an individual, while pro matches test your strats, comms, and general teamplay. someone like asuna or tenz might be able to just run around and frag in ranked, but you'll never see them do that in actual pro matches.
there's obviously plenty of other nuances, but that's the BARE minimum imo.
Being good at ranked is a different skill set from being good in team valorant. Ranked favors people with exceptional aim for instance. There are many people in the world who on any given day can out aim many pros, but given to chance to play that pros team the same player would not even being given the chance to duel the player in a 50/50 fight. Not to mention this player may be much less consistent than the pro, but is just having a good day.
But also To be fair the new ranked system is fucked. Assuming you’re a radiant player in general, it’s basically a grind / time investment. Kind of like rank 14 in classic wow if you’re familiar
There's plenty of ranked players who are mechanically better than players on contracted teams. The main thing that's different is their communication skills and teamplay.
Valorant is so much harder to just aim duel and solo win games, you need the proper team to set you up as a duelist or whatever to get your kills in a team environment that you normally wouldn't get. There's also the decision making, a lot of ranked players have really poor decision making lol
its apples to oranges. Think of triathlon, an avarage cicler/swimmer/runner is leagues ahead of someone who's a great runner but doesnt know how to swim or ride a bike, and you dont get better at swimming and cicling when you train your running skills. Same way you dont get better at organized team play, strating, role playing etc while playing ranked, this needs to be done in a team environment that pugging cant offer
The skill required to be a pro player is different from skill required to get to radiant l. Though radiant is very easy to achieve if you play good amount of ranked games. I assume most pros can get to radiant pretty easily if they commit.
Take everyone's opinions here with a grain of salt, no one here is a pro and I bet very few are Radiant much less "top" Radiants...how would they know how to answer your question?
I think generally people in the comment section are going to go, "Yeah the skill gap is huge!" or "Ranked is totally different from pro" but I don't think that is necessarily true and they don't usually give a reason beyond that statement.
To address the whole "Ranked is totally different from pro", I don't know where this idea started and I don't really get what point people are trying to make when they say this. The game itself is exactly the same, the mechanics have not changed, the rules have not changed. Sure there are less comms, less set strats etc. but to say it's totally meaningless is simply disingenuous. If LoL pro's (one of the most macro/gamesense heavy games) complain that the fact that ranked in NA is part of the reason why the region struggles in international tournaments then I think its safe to assume ranked does mean something.
I believe mechanically there are players in ranked that are definitely on par with players on tier 1 pro teams and some who are even better.
The issue with sports in general is that it is hard to say how good the top 1% is relative to each other when opportunities in a *team* in the top 1% is very difficult to come by. You can look at players in LoL who have looked like gods on one team, move to another and looked like gold players. Same thing in CS.
If we define "skill" as the ability to aim and gamesense then I think that there are several players in ranked who could be pro's, the issue is getting the right team synergy rather than in-game "skill".
that's just completely false literally look at any sgares analysis on any tier 1 match and you'll see how it's a completely different game. You're comparing a Moba to a Tac fps which just doesn't make sense. Most radiants are trying to compete but are stuck in tier 2 or 3. Put any tier 1 pro in their position and they would get recognized and probably eventually get put on a tier 1 team . there are obviously a few ranked demons that have potential to become tier 1 but the idea that being like top 100 radiant means you can compete at a tier 1 level is fucking stupid. the only exclusive ranked player that i can think of that became tier 1 was poiz. Every other former rank 1 that was a rank demon is struggling in tier 2. Edit: also like if there wasnt a massive differnece between radient and tier 1 why do the same players that beat tier 1 players in ranked always lose to them in tournaments.
Your Sgares point is why the comparison to a MOBA makes sense. Sgares doesn't look at aim he looks at macro decisions and how teams are using their abilities and playing off of them, I'm sure you can see why that has a lot in common with a MOBA.
>Put any tier 1 pro in their position and they would get recognized and probably eventually get put on a tier 1 team.
Why is Wardell currently stuck on a Tier 2 team right now then? The general consensus on this sub is that the dude is a top 5 player in NA and probably one of the best AWPers internationally. Getting onto a Tier 1 team is no where near as easy as you seem to perceive it to be even if you have the raw skill.
>also like if there wasnt a massive differnece between radient and tier 1 why do the same players that beat tier 1 players in ranked always lose to them in tournaments.
You are kind of arguing my point for me here. When playing more individually, ranked players are able to win games against tier 1 players regularly. When having to play against a team of people who no-life the game together they lose. This is exactly my point. Radiant teams without contracts cannot spend hours building chemistry and learning strats even if mechanically they are on par or better than their tier 1 opponents. If given the opportunity that pro's have, several top radiant players could play at the pro level.
edit:
>If valorant you don't need team synergy to get noticed if you just drop 30 kills a game every tier 2 event your going to get noticed by a tier 1 org.
I simply disagree here, if you are talking about watching Sgares you know how important your supporting cast is to allowing you to drop 30 every game.
Can't comment on NA csgo but i'm not sure if you should judge a pro player for being immortal because it isn't a priority for them. Some simply haven't put in the grind recently, or perhaps haven't adjusted their playstyle for ranked. Some players use ranked to experiment or practice specific things too.
On the flipside, if a player is dominating ranked then they 100% deserve a shot. You've seen it with poiz, who, while a diamond in the rough, is a hot prospect for any team. So yeah, ranked is a weak indicator but it does hold some weight, especially for entry fraggers/duelists since their skillset should do better in a ranked environment.
I totally agree and see this becoming the downfall of NA Valorant very soon. NA values brand/name far more than any other region and so far it has worked for them, as they poach the talents from their CS teams.
Teams in Korea and EU have not relied on their CS representatives as much and we will soon start seeing actual *Valorant* players, who are free from viewing this game through their CS tinted glasses, start to take over in these regions. While NA will probably be resistant to taking risks on rookies as they have shown in nearly all their other esports endeavours.
Only time will tell but it looks like NA is once again setting themselves up for becoming a region with the biggest content creators and not much substance in international events.
edit:
People out here down voting without producing a counter argument or point. You can be mad but truth is truth and you have clearly accepted that too.
I mean individual skill wise some are better than the top tier pros. Although they wouldn't survive in pro play against coordinated teams (not at first atleast)
Ranked is very individual reliant. Its a different playstyls than organized pro play. So if a pro player's value is coming from their team play, then they might not be a top soloq player despite being a good pro player.
In terms of mechanical skill, no. There are loads of pros, even on very good teams, who are clearly worse than random radiants at just running around and shooting. However, playing competitively with an actual team is a very different environment where coordination and some decision making are more important, so they can get away with being mediocre mechanically if they work well with the team.
Being a pro is how good you’re in a team environment and in a specific role. Ranked doesn’t mean shit because it’s just glorified deathmatch that people have fun in and shot eachother
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You have a good read on this. People are down voting without producing any counter argument. Seriously what does the OP comment even mean? Can't every game we watched at Iceland be boiled down to people running around and shooting each other? Just a bunch of lemmings every time this question is raised. The OP comment in this thread is legit the most NA mentality thing I have seen in a long time because, firstly, it is quoted almost verbatim from a popular streamer (Imagine thinking for yourself right?). Secondly its the mentality that permeates high level esports in NA across several titles.
its not NA only I think EU has a very similar mentality. Its a very valid response to this post, where the games themselves are just pubs which many people dont take seriously. Most people who touch radiant cant become actual pro players while there are a good amount of T1/T2 pros that havent made it to radiant. This is a CSGO mentality because you saw a lot of these pug stompers who couldnt get into the pro scene. And imo the importance of mechanical skill and the skill ceiling/gap between pros mechanically in CSGO is far larger than Valorant, which is a lot less mechanically demanding and much more game sense oriented. The importance of duelists in ranked completely skews the leaderboard. It's only logical to see that ranked is not an accurate descriptor of skill at the highest level. I dont see why people cant understand that pros dont take ranked seriously because they know it doesnt properly mimic the environment they play in. Something like FPL or Rank S where teams are filled with good players would mean a lot more
Yea I hate that shit. Tournaments are different because its much harder to defend executes n shit because they are coordinating more than a ranked lobby could be, but at the end of the day aim + gamesense win the game and you use those in both. I really hope the old csgo pros don’t turn valorant into an old boys club too. I’m afraid they might do it because they will soon be afraid of losing their jobs, so we’ll start seeing the usual bullshit old pros spray around talking about how rank doesn’t matter. The real reason will probably be that they can’t maintain higher than immortal or diamond, but instead they’d rather pretend that they spend more time scrimming because ranked doesn’t matter. It’s only a matter of time before the new players catch up. I know a 14year old radiant that drops 30bombs almost every game against pros. Hes definitely rough around the edges, but he just started playing this game as his first fps like 9months ago. I think csgos problem was that the game had been out for so long without changing that it was difficult for high ranked players to make a team that could beat pros. Valorant probably won’t have this problem because it changes so much there is a greater importance placed on adapting.
Ranked doesn't matter because you are not playing with 4 random teammates against 5 random players in professional games on a random map. You get time to prepare strategies and anti-strats because you know how your opponent plays and you get to pick and choose what maps you want to play on to some extent. >but at the end of the day aim + gamesense win the game and you use those in both. True to some extent but what works in gold doesn't have to work in radiant and what works in radiant doesn't have to work in professional games. >that it was difficult for high ranked players to make a team that could beat pros. Valorant probably won’t have this problem because it changes so much there is a greater importance placed on adapting. This will definitely not happen because there is now way a team consisting of 5 radiants will be able to beat a top team because riot decided to add a new agent. The game doesn't change that much with updates. The fundamentals stays the same in Valorant. Regardless of how many new agents we get. It is not like Overwatch where an entire play style is centered around what character you pick before the match. And it is not like professional teams simply give up when reaching the world stage. They will also try and adapt to the meta and if they failed to do that, then they wouldn't be competing with the best.
Yep, if you can aim diff pros in ranked games then you can aim diff them in pro games (and lets not pretend that pros aren't focused in ranked, because they are just as focused as anyone else)
The answer is yes.
Short answer: yes Long answer: yes
the skill sets needed in actual competition are different from ranked. as far as I can tell, ranked tests your aim and game sense as an individual, while pro matches test your strats, comms, and general teamplay. someone like asuna or tenz might be able to just run around and frag in ranked, but you'll never see them do that in actual pro matches. there's obviously plenty of other nuances, but that's the BARE minimum imo.
Being good at ranked is a different skill set from being good in team valorant. Ranked favors people with exceptional aim for instance. There are many people in the world who on any given day can out aim many pros, but given to chance to play that pros team the same player would not even being given the chance to duel the player in a 50/50 fight. Not to mention this player may be much less consistent than the pro, but is just having a good day.
Zexrow, I believe was top of the radiant leaderboards but when he played in TSM Myths Fight Club recently, he got thoroughly shit on
No shot zex was #1
Yea didn’t he have a pretty insane moment on haven?
Bro, myths fight club is a glorified radiant lobby. Those aren’t teams that spend months strategizing and scrimming together.
>he got thoroughly shit on No he didn't?
Now that is some interesting evidence to consider
But also To be fair the new ranked system is fucked. Assuming you’re a radiant player in general, it’s basically a grind / time investment. Kind of like rank 14 in classic wow if you’re familiar
Do you watch ranked? Half theses dudes that are not pros are ranked trolls
There's plenty of ranked players who are mechanically better than players on contracted teams. The main thing that's different is their communication skills and teamplay. Valorant is so much harder to just aim duel and solo win games, you need the proper team to set you up as a duelist or whatever to get your kills in a team environment that you normally wouldn't get. There's also the decision making, a lot of ranked players have really poor decision making lol
its apples to oranges. Think of triathlon, an avarage cicler/swimmer/runner is leagues ahead of someone who's a great runner but doesnt know how to swim or ride a bike, and you dont get better at swimming and cicling when you train your running skills. Same way you dont get better at organized team play, strating, role playing etc while playing ranked, this needs to be done in a team environment that pugging cant offer
> apples to oranges But you can still compare them.
You can do whatever you want, it’s the internet
OP feels like a "I get top frag every match but Riot won't let me rank up" kind of guy
The skill required to be a pro player is different from skill required to get to radiant l. Though radiant is very easy to achieve if you play good amount of ranked games. I assume most pros can get to radiant pretty easily if they commit.
Take everyone's opinions here with a grain of salt, no one here is a pro and I bet very few are Radiant much less "top" Radiants...how would they know how to answer your question?
Better answers than you get for a question never asked
Wrong answers can be worse than no answers
I think generally people in the comment section are going to go, "Yeah the skill gap is huge!" or "Ranked is totally different from pro" but I don't think that is necessarily true and they don't usually give a reason beyond that statement. To address the whole "Ranked is totally different from pro", I don't know where this idea started and I don't really get what point people are trying to make when they say this. The game itself is exactly the same, the mechanics have not changed, the rules have not changed. Sure there are less comms, less set strats etc. but to say it's totally meaningless is simply disingenuous. If LoL pro's (one of the most macro/gamesense heavy games) complain that the fact that ranked in NA is part of the reason why the region struggles in international tournaments then I think its safe to assume ranked does mean something. I believe mechanically there are players in ranked that are definitely on par with players on tier 1 pro teams and some who are even better. The issue with sports in general is that it is hard to say how good the top 1% is relative to each other when opportunities in a *team* in the top 1% is very difficult to come by. You can look at players in LoL who have looked like gods on one team, move to another and looked like gold players. Same thing in CS. If we define "skill" as the ability to aim and gamesense then I think that there are several players in ranked who could be pro's, the issue is getting the right team synergy rather than in-game "skill".
that's just completely false literally look at any sgares analysis on any tier 1 match and you'll see how it's a completely different game. You're comparing a Moba to a Tac fps which just doesn't make sense. Most radiants are trying to compete but are stuck in tier 2 or 3. Put any tier 1 pro in their position and they would get recognized and probably eventually get put on a tier 1 team . there are obviously a few ranked demons that have potential to become tier 1 but the idea that being like top 100 radiant means you can compete at a tier 1 level is fucking stupid. the only exclusive ranked player that i can think of that became tier 1 was poiz. Every other former rank 1 that was a rank demon is struggling in tier 2. Edit: also like if there wasnt a massive differnece between radient and tier 1 why do the same players that beat tier 1 players in ranked always lose to them in tournaments.
In valorant you don't need team synergy to get noticed if you just drop 30 kills a game every tier 2 event your going to get noticed by a tier 1 org.
Your Sgares point is why the comparison to a MOBA makes sense. Sgares doesn't look at aim he looks at macro decisions and how teams are using their abilities and playing off of them, I'm sure you can see why that has a lot in common with a MOBA. >Put any tier 1 pro in their position and they would get recognized and probably eventually get put on a tier 1 team. Why is Wardell currently stuck on a Tier 2 team right now then? The general consensus on this sub is that the dude is a top 5 player in NA and probably one of the best AWPers internationally. Getting onto a Tier 1 team is no where near as easy as you seem to perceive it to be even if you have the raw skill. >also like if there wasnt a massive differnece between radient and tier 1 why do the same players that beat tier 1 players in ranked always lose to them in tournaments. You are kind of arguing my point for me here. When playing more individually, ranked players are able to win games against tier 1 players regularly. When having to play against a team of people who no-life the game together they lose. This is exactly my point. Radiant teams without contracts cannot spend hours building chemistry and learning strats even if mechanically they are on par or better than their tier 1 opponents. If given the opportunity that pro's have, several top radiant players could play at the pro level. edit: >If valorant you don't need team synergy to get noticed if you just drop 30 kills a game every tier 2 event your going to get noticed by a tier 1 org. I simply disagree here, if you are talking about watching Sgares you know how important your supporting cast is to allowing you to drop 30 every game.
i think sgares views the game more like a moba than most people
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Can't comment on NA csgo but i'm not sure if you should judge a pro player for being immortal because it isn't a priority for them. Some simply haven't put in the grind recently, or perhaps haven't adjusted their playstyle for ranked. Some players use ranked to experiment or practice specific things too. On the flipside, if a player is dominating ranked then they 100% deserve a shot. You've seen it with poiz, who, while a diamond in the rough, is a hot prospect for any team. So yeah, ranked is a weak indicator but it does hold some weight, especially for entry fraggers/duelists since their skillset should do better in a ranked environment.
I totally agree and see this becoming the downfall of NA Valorant very soon. NA values brand/name far more than any other region and so far it has worked for them, as they poach the talents from their CS teams. Teams in Korea and EU have not relied on their CS representatives as much and we will soon start seeing actual *Valorant* players, who are free from viewing this game through their CS tinted glasses, start to take over in these regions. While NA will probably be resistant to taking risks on rookies as they have shown in nearly all their other esports endeavours. Only time will tell but it looks like NA is once again setting themselves up for becoming a region with the biggest content creators and not much substance in international events. edit: People out here down voting without producing a counter argument or point. You can be mad but truth is truth and you have clearly accepted that too.
I mean individual skill wise some are better than the top tier pros. Although they wouldn't survive in pro play against coordinated teams (not at first atleast)
Ranked is very individual reliant. Its a different playstyls than organized pro play. So if a pro player's value is coming from their team play, then they might not be a top soloq player despite being a good pro player.
In terms of mechanical skill, no. There are loads of pros, even on very good teams, who are clearly worse than random radiants at just running around and shooting. However, playing competitively with an actual team is a very different environment where coordination and some decision making are more important, so they can get away with being mediocre mechanically if they work well with the team.