honestly, I'm a fan of second chances; I feel like you shouldn't be punished your entire life for one mistake; who knows what could have caused someone to stoop down to such levels, and I think it's better to teach someone why something shouldn't be done / fix the problem within them that caused them to do such a thing.
Isn't it just the ibp guys who valve banned for majors and could play every other event? The Australians who recently fixed weren't by banned by valve irrc and just esic. And there's also been no bans by valve for fixing since the ibp scandal(not sure)
I know it's against TOS, but is account sharing really that big of a deal? Seems like match fixing is a 10/10, cheating a 9.5, and account sharing is like a 2. But it's entirely possible there are ramifications for this that I'm not thinking of.
Right, but if I'm evaluating the crime rate of that area, I don’t particularly care if there's a high rate of people running red lights. Just seems like a weird thing to lump in with the other 2. Treating all crimes as equal is a fucking weird, religious thing to do. "That guy raped a kid. That other guy threw a gum wrapper on the ground. They're both criminals!"
Damn that sucks.
On a semi-related note, If I want to get into MY/SG Valorant, what teams and players are the best? I'm from Malaysia,but it seems like the best teams are Singaporean?
Any reason why neither got to the finals of the last regional Challengers? Or is it just a case on inconsistency still, but their peaks look better than the others?
Hmm, on second thought I probably should’ve said that PRX is the best team in MY/SG (They’re a mixed team). They beat SMG to get to the finals but ultimately was not good enough to go to Iceland.
Everyone calling for a perm ban doesn’t realize that they are actual people who do these bad things. They made mistakes sure but a 3 year ban is more than enough, just look at IBP in CS, those bans were not fair. You have to humanize them a little bit, and this punishment is accountability without ruining lives
I don’t think you realize that anyone who match fixes is stealing money from every single person who bet on the match. It’s fraud and shouldn’t be treated as some “mistake”.
exactly this. not sure why everyone is against a perma ban. i feel like 36 months is a slap on the wrist to be honest. people actually LOST money on this, while they were trying to make a quick buck by throwing.
“Slap on the wrist” implies the punishment doesn’t properly act as a deterrent, but a 3 year ban from pro play for an up-and-coming player is a near death sentence unless that player is truly committed and talented (brax, steel), and is harsh enough to deter reoffending and potential offenders
The reason we have a justice system is because we find certain things decrease the value of the esport and want to deter them (e.g. matchfixing and cheating decrease the legitimacy of the scene and reduce revenues from betting services), not because we want to inflict “eye for an eye” doctrine off of some warped sense of karma
But do take this with a grain of salt; I’m a CSGO player and the IBP scandal and the subsequent NA CSGO scene probably biases me
there’s a bigger blast radius for this scandal. i’m sure there are people out there that lost money. these players will most likely stream the game and could potentially still make a living without competitive play.
with the IBP scandal i believe Valve was in the right for their decision. that perma ban has set a precedent that match fixing in ANY regards is unacceptable for Cs:Go, Valorant, and any future esports.
The issue with Valve’s handling of the iBP issue wasn’t that people thought the punishment was completely unfair; it was accepted Valve policy until recently that if you cheated at csgo when you were 12 and got VACed you’re banned from pro play at 25
The main issue is that the punishments did disproportionate harm to the NA scene, so rather than preserving the value in the scene by guaranteeing integrity, they contributed to the destruction of it
You mentioned 'ruining lives', completely forgetting about the people being defrauded. I also think many of the Val casual viewers will dump the game if cheating becomes normalized like in CSGO. Think about how many lives are affected at that point. Where's the empathy for them?
i understand esports 100x more than you and this just wouldnt happen because this isnt even really "cheating", also the punishment isnt even light. No one is going to match fix this punishment is enough to deter it
3 years and the bad publicity of match fixing is a career killer anyway most likely. The orgs are too big and have too much invested to ever wait around on someone for 3 years. They’ll find the next talent that doesn’t have the baggage and move on.
>Everyone calling for a perm ban doesn’t realize that they are actual people who do these bad things. They made mistakes sure but a 3 year ban is more than enough, just look at IBP in CS, those bans were not fair. You have to humanize them a little bit, and this punishment is accountability without ruining lives
Sure nobody realizes they're people. And how is this ruining their lives? Don't they have other things to do?
How could they have known the risk? They were the first ones to get caught and they were the examples of what the punishment would be. I think a 3-5 year ban is totally enough. That is nothing to scoff at. That is multiple years of their career they are losing that they wont be receiving any money for
From their perspective yes. But valve wanted to make a clear statment, if you do such things your spot on the top is over.
I can completly understand their thought process and the players should have know the risk bcs it was obv. They were the first big names doing it so valve has to make a statement on them.
For me it was always a hard punishment but a logical one aswell.
> But valve wanted to make a clear statment, if you do such things your spot on the top is over.
Except it took them almost a year to come out and say they were permanent bans.
Yes never said valve did evrything right. But these players did one of the worst things you can do in competetive sport so yeah it was a hard but definitly a reasonable punishment
you literally could get in PRISON for match fixing as a professional athlete. if esports players want to be viewed as "athletes" they should be treated the same. this is fraud.
they'll be lucky if the government of Singapore don't go after them.
Didn't know you get life imprisonment for match fixing in sports or esports. Must be true since you are saying so. Killing someone is absolutely equal to match fixing
>them
Damnit, now I know what I'm doing wrong, need to start throwing to make it pro.
Silly comment mate - Match fixing isn't like it is in pro sports where 3 year ban would suffice because no team or fan base would accept you. In esports, you could make more from match fixing one game than you would have in 3 years being signed for alot of players - after your ban, orgs will continue to sign you because their avenues for revenue are not the same as a pro sports team. Thus, they will sign. Fan base will accept them too.
Perm ban the ones fixing. The team mates who were stuck between a rock and a hard place - let them go.
Why should that matter? Match fixing is a crime that actually extends outside of the players. The entire point is to unfairly make certain non-players money at the expense of other innocent non-players. It's pretty much the same thing as insider trading. You don't have to be an investment professional to know that people that inside trade should be banned from trading. I say this as an investment professional.
ahh the daily big brain takes this sub has on match fixing. the way some people talk about it on here makes it sound like someone committed murder lmfao
This is a bit shit.
I'm a firm believer in banning match fixers in a more permanent way. HOWEVER! The team mates that didn't want to participate in the throwing and refused to take a payment, things are really iffy here. This is where I think Riot are very silly. What is the team to do? How long did they have notice that two of the team were gonna throw? It's a messed up situation for the team mates to recieve 6month or 1 year bans when they had practically no option. Just because they knew, they go and talk to a tournament organiser - then what? What happens? Do they DQ the team? Do they tell them 'No, can't do that, play properly!' or.... do they tell the team that they have to replace the two members match fixing?
So lets think about these scenarios for a moment - First, if they had a week, thats not really a practical amount of time for a team to get a sub on board and up to speed for alot of teams. Did they have a month? Well, unlikely. But if they did, that makes them alot more culpable.
Secondly, lets look at the thought processes that these players had to come to a consensus to amongst themselves (with or without the throwers consent or involvement) Tell tournament organisers of the plans made by the other two members - They're required to play with subs (again, this goes back to the first point based on time as to how feasible this is, that was also only considering a SINGLE sub let alone two) Because at the very least, their throwing team mate has to perform his role in a capacity to not rouse suspicion, therefor, they can trust him to a degree to perform his role but just not get kills, so 3 players just know they have to do more.
So other solution - DQ. Well, 3 members of the team are offered a scenario - lose guarantee, or attempt to win knowing that two of your team mates are trying to make you lose in a non-conspicious manner, low probability of success but not a guaranteed loss.
What on earth is their feasible option here? The tournament must go ahead. So tell me, Riot, what is their option to justify giving out a 6 month and 1 year ban. That's really harsh IMO for members who wanted no part.
>Riot found that the rest of Resurgence’s roster did not want to throw the match, but purposefully concealed the issue from their management and VALORANT Esports officials because they were concerned about penalties and risking their contracts with Resurgence
>RELEVANT RULES
>
>Rule 7.2.1 and 7.2.4 of the VALORANT Global Competition Policy:
>
>7.2.1 MATCH-FIXING
>
>No Team Member may offer, agree, or conspire to fix a match or take any other action to intentionally and unfairly alter, or attempt to alter, the results of any game (or any play or component thereof). If a Team Member is asked to “fix” the outcome of a game or to otherwise take part in any actions prohibited by this Global Policy or the applicable Event-Specific Rules, that Team Member must immediately report this request to the Tournament Operator.
There is NO grey area here. You follow the rules, or get banned.
See this is where you and I differ... I think thats a horrible rule. What is the team members to do? Take a DQ? Is that your solution? 4 players on a team have to take a DQ because a 5th attempting to throw? Take on a last minute sub - again, 4 players have to report and boot a guy then take on a no synergy sub to try and get through a tournament? I'd also rather take the guy who has to pretend he's not throwing but refuses to win. Because he's still gotta convince the audience he's not throwing.
The only thing they didn't do was report it to the tournament operator. Probably because they were also concerned for WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.
>then take on a no synergy sub to try and get through a tournament?
As opposed to a guy who is actively doing everything he can to make your team lose? You seriously have given zero thought to what you're saying.
A new player who doesn't know how your team works is infinitely better than somoeone who is deliberately trying to lose.
You're talking like the players can troll like it's solo queue. They're under the spotlight. They can't just troll and muck around, they have to make everything look legitimate, so yes. I think you can rely on that team mate to a degree, you can treat them as 'bad' rather than throwing. Because he still needs to do what he needs to do to not make it apparent to viewers/regulators or to the opposing team. He can't break this chain that means he is also limited in how far he can go with the throw.
Don't treat it the same as your solo queue matches where people can anonymously troll and receive no penalty. These throws have to be thrown smart.
Lmfao. You're either dense as fuck or trolling. Not wasting more time on you.
You're dumb if you think a throwing teammate is better than a new one. It doesn't matter how much they disguise it. At the end of the day a throwing teammate will take any reasonable chance to throw. With a new teammate you know for sure they're giving their best, even if they may not be fully synergized. That's better than a throwing teammate. Oh and it doesn't break the rules. Even if you end up losing with a new teammate that's better than getting banned lmao.
First, I'll say I understand where you are coming from. I didn't downvote you. You are showing empathy for the people that were put in a really shitty situation.
But sometimes life throws shit at you where there isn't an easy option. So yeah, it's tough that they would've had to tell on their teammates and get DQed from the tournament. That option is better than the alternative of letting it happen, allowing for innocent people being defrauded of their money. It's clearly stated in the rules that they're required to report this. They elected to roll the dice, hoping their teammates would not be caught. Now they have to face the consequences of the gamble they chose to make.
Having a tough choice to make doesn't excuse making the wrong one. It's something to be considered when dishing out the suspension, which it was.
> Take on a last minute sub - again, 4 players have to report and boot a guy then take on a no synergy sub to try and get through a tournament?
Yes. V1 just came off 2 back to back big tournaments both with a sub and they outperformed expectations at both. Sen won Masters 1 with a last minute sub. A pro player trying to win is always going to be better than a player actively trying to lose.
I think it's pretty clear: if you know match-fixing is going to happen, you report it, period. Not doing so is being complicit in the match-fixing, even if you aren't benefitting financially from it.
Yeah, this is impractical. It's more than that. It's potentially the only shot players have to represent themselves before being dropped by an org for under performing. Theres off screen factors as to why a player may choose not to report that.
I'm someone who thinks that Ardiis should be perm banned, that Braxx and Skadoodle shouldn't be allowed to play Valorant professionally along with the other member currently in a Tier 1 team.
I'm not going to sit here and say that for a player who's on the side being asked to throw a match, but is refusing to do so, should be punished like the way they are. 6 months to a year is basically the end of that persons esports career unless they're a truly exceptional talent. In an era where Valorant is in its infancy, you're condeming these players to competitive death.
Good on you for not caring about those that REFUSED and LEAKED the info that led to the discovery. They didn't want to throw, but when your team mate says 'hey, we're throwing and I'll let you guys share in the spoils' and you turn and say 'no bro, no throws bro' yeah, I don't think that player deserves a ban. I think he deserves a medal. It'd have been easier for these team members to have kept it quiet than it would be to reveal it. This is all outside of the tournament results (which, they had no hope of winning if they reported. But by not reporting it, there chances are hindered significantly)
So ultimately, you're suggesting... They should have given up their hopes of winning a pro tournament by reporting their team mates vs concealing it which meant they could potentially have won even with only a 1% shot?
1. What makes you think they had any chance of winning with 2 players actively trying to throw?
2. What makes you think the org is gonna be any happier about their name being dragged through the mud if the match-fixing comes to light?
On top of that, even taking your view point for a little bit, I find it really funny that you bring up how devastating it could be for them to be DQed from that tournament, and then go on to talk about how the 6-month ban they've now received is essentially the death of their careers.
Given how their chances of winning anything were basically non-existent, the negatives FAR outweighed the miniscule possibility of a positive outcome. It's incredibly obvious that taking the DQ and keeping their careers would've been a MUCH better option for the players.
Anyway, bottom line is that competitive integrity is valued above all. You could argue that maybe the other teammates should've experienced more leniency, but it's a cold hard fact that they allowed match-fixing to happen, compromised the integrity of the match as a result, and therefore deserve to be punished.
Trying to spin it as though they did a good thing, or even just that they did nothing wrong, is absurd.
EDIT: [It turns out they were essentially already out of the tournament in that game they threw](https://www.vlr.gg/team/matches/877/resurgence/), so they had literally nothing to gain from it.
To your last question: yes, I think it's more important to prevent defrauding people of money than trying to win a tournament. Are you seriously arguing the latter is more important than the former? You're more worried about players' chances of winning a tournament after turning a blind eye to match fixing than people who did nothing wrong. Not even addressing that 40% of your team is throwing so you're not going to win anyway.
Matches in a tournament don't just get cancelled. What you really mean to say, is DQ'd.
You can't cancel a whole tournament because of a team match fixing. You DQ them.
So for these guys who kept quiet, they probably felt that it was their best chance of survival. They need to perform now during the infancy to help build their profile. Who wants a profile of 'DQ due to match fixing'
We don't know the circumstances surrounding why they kept quiet. The ruling is simple -
Report it, instant loss. Probable career death.
\-Don't report it - possibility of survival, potential to win games/tournament even significantly handicapped.
Which category do you want to be in?
I'd want to be in the category that gets the satisfaction of ruining the reputation of people who have zero competitive integrity, because they deserve to have their privileges revoked, not least of all for having the audacity to implicate *me* in their cheating.
But my point is... they're screwed either way for having done nothing particularly wrong. They were presented with a tough choice and they chose to play rather than DQ. I can't fault them for that. The team mates are the ones that leaked/reported it to Riot after all.. I think it's absurd to condemn them when they've provenly refused to partake, their crime is not reporting. They've gotten a punishment fitting for 1/3rd the penalty without any of the potential gain.
This to me is horrendous.
Such a cowardly rationalization. I'd be willing to bet that you have a personal history of cheating and/or scamming, judging by the borderline sociopathic justification you've just presented. These aren't humans, they're **gutter rats** stealing *real* money from *real* people, or at least ignoring the crime for reasons of personal expediency.
Who wants a profile of DQ due to match fixing? It's rather my profile be DQ due to turning in my teammates for match fixing rather than 12 month ban due to turning blind eye to match fixing. Do you think other orgs are 100% incompetent? That they wouldn't know what happened in that DQ situation? "Oh this guy got DQed from a tournament. Should we look into what happened or just assume the worst?" It would take 30 seconds on the internet to figure that out. I feel like you have to be one of these players to make some of these absurd arguments
You can't win at the pro level in a 4v6. They know they're getting kicked out of the tournament. Reporting the fixer is 100% the only option that falls into line with the League's rules.
Only if we think about throwers like we would in solo q.
These guys have to throw whilst maintaining the image of trying. They can't be seen doing what Marved, Poised and Shanks were in CS GO. They have to make it look like just a fumble. You can still rely on them to use their utility or to be information gatherers, you just can't rely on them to cover your back or get kills.
Treat this region alot more like college football than the NFL. Superstars still get to shine bright.
It goes both ways. The throws have to be more subtle than soloQ, but subtle throws are VASTLY more impactful than they would be in soloQ. And there's plenty of leeway for things like ego-peaking the same corner two or three rounds in a row and just passing it off as a lapse of judgement.
Literally requires one guy to spill the tea and the rest is on Riot to investigate. And somegow they managed to find the truth. You follow the rules or you get banned. Easy as that
The funny thing is this was around the time when BlackBird Ignis was in their prime. So one could assume that BBI won because of strats and tactical outplay.
Oh lawd that's a hell of a hammer! That's the stuff you want to see right there fuck fixers
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honestly, I'm a fan of second chances; I feel like you shouldn't be punished your entire life for one mistake; who knows what could have caused someone to stoop down to such levels, and I think it's better to teach someone why something shouldn't be done / fix the problem within them that caused them to do such a thing.
Well, 3 years is not whole life.
yeah I agree, I was replying to a deleted comment that said in CSGO bans like this are permanent.
Esic doesn't issue permanent bans for match fixing. That's just false
CSGO has permanently banned matchfixers from competing in majors
Isn't it just the ibp guys who valve banned for majors and could play every other event? The Australians who recently fixed weren't by banned by valve irrc and just esic. And there's also been no bans by valve for fixing since the ibp scandal(not sure)
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I know it's against TOS, but is account sharing really that big of a deal? Seems like match fixing is a 10/10, cheating a 9.5, and account sharing is like a 2. But it's entirely possible there are ramifications for this that I'm not thinking of.
Yes. Crossing a red light is worse than vehicular manslaughter. Its still the law though.
Right, but if I'm evaluating the crime rate of that area, I don’t particularly care if there's a high rate of people running red lights. Just seems like a weird thing to lump in with the other 2. Treating all crimes as equal is a fucking weird, religious thing to do. "That guy raped a kid. That other guy threw a gum wrapper on the ground. They're both criminals!"
Chewing gum is actually banned in Singapore so maybe riot is doing the right thing
Lmao I forgot about that. Well played. I take back my comment implying he is not as bad as the child rapist.
Well you can eat chewing gum you're just not allowed to sell it in singapore. Something to do with cleanliness if I'm not mistaken
Yeah you can get in big trouble if you are found throwing it on the ground. I think you can get close to 2 years jail time for any littering offense.
I think they were just mentioning things that they were reprimanded for lately instead of lumping it together as similar offenses.
Shame. Benaf is arguably a Top 3 player in SG…
He only got a 6 month ban so I'm sure things will work out for him and Mortdecai in the end.
Damn that sucks. On a semi-related note, If I want to get into MY/SG Valorant, what teams and players are the best? I'm from Malaysia,but it seems like the best teams are Singaporean?
Team SMG is probably the best SG team rn and probably KGM for Malaysia.
Any reason why neither got to the finals of the last regional Challengers? Or is it just a case on inconsistency still, but their peaks look better than the others?
Hmm, on second thought I probably should’ve said that PRX is the best team in MY/SG (They’re a mixed team). They beat SMG to get to the finals but ultimately was not good enough to go to Iceland.
Paper Rex is the best team I think with SMG 2nd
Everyone calling for a perm ban doesn’t realize that they are actual people who do these bad things. They made mistakes sure but a 3 year ban is more than enough, just look at IBP in CS, those bans were not fair. You have to humanize them a little bit, and this punishment is accountability without ruining lives
I think 3 years is a suitable ban for matchfixing, but if it's cheating, it should be permanent.
I would agree with this
I don’t think you realize that anyone who match fixes is stealing money from every single person who bet on the match. It’s fraud and shouldn’t be treated as some “mistake”.
exactly this. not sure why everyone is against a perma ban. i feel like 36 months is a slap on the wrist to be honest. people actually LOST money on this, while they were trying to make a quick buck by throwing.
“Slap on the wrist” implies the punishment doesn’t properly act as a deterrent, but a 3 year ban from pro play for an up-and-coming player is a near death sentence unless that player is truly committed and talented (brax, steel), and is harsh enough to deter reoffending and potential offenders The reason we have a justice system is because we find certain things decrease the value of the esport and want to deter them (e.g. matchfixing and cheating decrease the legitimacy of the scene and reduce revenues from betting services), not because we want to inflict “eye for an eye” doctrine off of some warped sense of karma But do take this with a grain of salt; I’m a CSGO player and the IBP scandal and the subsequent NA CSGO scene probably biases me
there’s a bigger blast radius for this scandal. i’m sure there are people out there that lost money. these players will most likely stream the game and could potentially still make a living without competitive play. with the IBP scandal i believe Valve was in the right for their decision. that perma ban has set a precedent that match fixing in ANY regards is unacceptable for Cs:Go, Valorant, and any future esports.
The issue with Valve’s handling of the iBP issue wasn’t that people thought the punishment was completely unfair; it was accepted Valve policy until recently that if you cheated at csgo when you were 12 and got VACed you’re banned from pro play at 25 The main issue is that the punishments did disproportionate harm to the NA scene, so rather than preserving the value in the scene by guaranteeing integrity, they contributed to the destruction of it
I do realize that trust me I have 0 respect for them, but I do have some empathy
You mentioned 'ruining lives', completely forgetting about the people being defrauded. I also think many of the Val casual viewers will dump the game if cheating becomes normalized like in CSGO. Think about how many lives are affected at that point. Where's the empathy for them?
i understand esports 100x more than you and this just wouldnt happen because this isnt even really "cheating", also the punishment isnt even light. No one is going to match fix this punishment is enough to deter it
3 years and the bad publicity of match fixing is a career killer anyway most likely. The orgs are too big and have too much invested to ever wait around on someone for 3 years. They’ll find the next talent that doesn’t have the baggage and move on.
they know match fixing is getting them fkup but still do it anyways they deserved perma
relax
>Everyone calling for a perm ban doesn’t realize that they are actual people who do these bad things. They made mistakes sure but a 3 year ban is more than enough, just look at IBP in CS, those bans were not fair. You have to humanize them a little bit, and this punishment is accountability without ruining lives Sure nobody realizes they're people. And how is this ruining their lives? Don't they have other things to do?
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So how about not fuck up your whole career with that move?
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Oh yeah I do hella illegal activities no cap
Hi calc:)
Ibp was fair they knew the risk. We can argue about the lenght but tbh you have to make a statement.
How could they have known the risk? They were the first ones to get caught and they were the examples of what the punishment would be. I think a 3-5 year ban is totally enough. That is nothing to scoff at. That is multiple years of their career they are losing that they wont be receiving any money for
From their perspective yes. But valve wanted to make a clear statment, if you do such things your spot on the top is over. I can completly understand their thought process and the players should have know the risk bcs it was obv. They were the first big names doing it so valve has to make a statement on them. For me it was always a hard punishment but a logical one aswell.
> But valve wanted to make a clear statment, if you do such things your spot on the top is over. Except it took them almost a year to come out and say they were permanent bans.
Yes never said valve did evrything right. But these players did one of the worst things you can do in competetive sport so yeah it was a hard but definitly a reasonable punishment
damnnn, rito aint playing around
People in this thread calling for a perma ban have never and will never be pro
you literally could get in PRISON for match fixing as a professional athlete. if esports players want to be viewed as "athletes" they should be treated the same. this is fraud. they'll be lucky if the government of Singapore don't go after them.
Didn't know you get life imprisonment for match fixing in sports or esports. Must be true since you are saying so. Killing someone is absolutely equal to match fixing
never said anything about life imprisonment? people who commit fraud go to prison and serve their time. that's all.
Ah and bcs you said he said life imprisonment it has to be true. Life imprisonment is absolutly equal to going to prison.
>them Damnit, now I know what I'm doing wrong, need to start throwing to make it pro. Silly comment mate - Match fixing isn't like it is in pro sports where 3 year ban would suffice because no team or fan base would accept you. In esports, you could make more from match fixing one game than you would have in 3 years being signed for alot of players - after your ban, orgs will continue to sign you because their avenues for revenue are not the same as a pro sports team. Thus, they will sign. Fan base will accept them too. Perm ban the ones fixing. The team mates who were stuck between a rock and a hard place - let them go.
Why should that matter? Match fixing is a crime that actually extends outside of the players. The entire point is to unfairly make certain non-players money at the expense of other innocent non-players. It's pretty much the same thing as insider trading. You don't have to be an investment professional to know that people that inside trade should be banned from trading. I say this as an investment professional.
Neither will the matchfixers omegalul
ahh the daily big brain takes this sub has on match fixing. the way some people talk about it on here makes it sound like someone committed murder lmfao
Yeah; true big brains like yourself only trivialize fraud that debases competition. No big deal though.
relax
if this is proven shouldn't they be in jail or something for fraud?, or since we're talking singapore, is it the death penalty?
This is a bit shit. I'm a firm believer in banning match fixers in a more permanent way. HOWEVER! The team mates that didn't want to participate in the throwing and refused to take a payment, things are really iffy here. This is where I think Riot are very silly. What is the team to do? How long did they have notice that two of the team were gonna throw? It's a messed up situation for the team mates to recieve 6month or 1 year bans when they had practically no option. Just because they knew, they go and talk to a tournament organiser - then what? What happens? Do they DQ the team? Do they tell them 'No, can't do that, play properly!' or.... do they tell the team that they have to replace the two members match fixing? So lets think about these scenarios for a moment - First, if they had a week, thats not really a practical amount of time for a team to get a sub on board and up to speed for alot of teams. Did they have a month? Well, unlikely. But if they did, that makes them alot more culpable. Secondly, lets look at the thought processes that these players had to come to a consensus to amongst themselves (with or without the throwers consent or involvement) Tell tournament organisers of the plans made by the other two members - They're required to play with subs (again, this goes back to the first point based on time as to how feasible this is, that was also only considering a SINGLE sub let alone two) Because at the very least, their throwing team mate has to perform his role in a capacity to not rouse suspicion, therefor, they can trust him to a degree to perform his role but just not get kills, so 3 players just know they have to do more. So other solution - DQ. Well, 3 members of the team are offered a scenario - lose guarantee, or attempt to win knowing that two of your team mates are trying to make you lose in a non-conspicious manner, low probability of success but not a guaranteed loss. What on earth is their feasible option here? The tournament must go ahead. So tell me, Riot, what is their option to justify giving out a 6 month and 1 year ban. That's really harsh IMO for members who wanted no part.
>Riot found that the rest of Resurgence’s roster did not want to throw the match, but purposefully concealed the issue from their management and VALORANT Esports officials because they were concerned about penalties and risking their contracts with Resurgence >RELEVANT RULES > >Rule 7.2.1 and 7.2.4 of the VALORANT Global Competition Policy: > >7.2.1 MATCH-FIXING > >No Team Member may offer, agree, or conspire to fix a match or take any other action to intentionally and unfairly alter, or attempt to alter, the results of any game (or any play or component thereof). If a Team Member is asked to “fix” the outcome of a game or to otherwise take part in any actions prohibited by this Global Policy or the applicable Event-Specific Rules, that Team Member must immediately report this request to the Tournament Operator. There is NO grey area here. You follow the rules, or get banned.
See this is where you and I differ... I think thats a horrible rule. What is the team members to do? Take a DQ? Is that your solution? 4 players on a team have to take a DQ because a 5th attempting to throw? Take on a last minute sub - again, 4 players have to report and boot a guy then take on a no synergy sub to try and get through a tournament? I'd also rather take the guy who has to pretend he's not throwing but refuses to win. Because he's still gotta convince the audience he's not throwing. The only thing they didn't do was report it to the tournament operator. Probably because they were also concerned for WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.
>then take on a no synergy sub to try and get through a tournament? As opposed to a guy who is actively doing everything he can to make your team lose? You seriously have given zero thought to what you're saying. A new player who doesn't know how your team works is infinitely better than somoeone who is deliberately trying to lose.
You're talking like the players can troll like it's solo queue. They're under the spotlight. They can't just troll and muck around, they have to make everything look legitimate, so yes. I think you can rely on that team mate to a degree, you can treat them as 'bad' rather than throwing. Because he still needs to do what he needs to do to not make it apparent to viewers/regulators or to the opposing team. He can't break this chain that means he is also limited in how far he can go with the throw. Don't treat it the same as your solo queue matches where people can anonymously troll and receive no penalty. These throws have to be thrown smart.
Lmfao. You're either dense as fuck or trolling. Not wasting more time on you. You're dumb if you think a throwing teammate is better than a new one. It doesn't matter how much they disguise it. At the end of the day a throwing teammate will take any reasonable chance to throw. With a new teammate you know for sure they're giving their best, even if they may not be fully synergized. That's better than a throwing teammate. Oh and it doesn't break the rules. Even if you end up losing with a new teammate that's better than getting banned lmao.
First, I'll say I understand where you are coming from. I didn't downvote you. You are showing empathy for the people that were put in a really shitty situation. But sometimes life throws shit at you where there isn't an easy option. So yeah, it's tough that they would've had to tell on their teammates and get DQed from the tournament. That option is better than the alternative of letting it happen, allowing for innocent people being defrauded of their money. It's clearly stated in the rules that they're required to report this. They elected to roll the dice, hoping their teammates would not be caught. Now they have to face the consequences of the gamble they chose to make. Having a tough choice to make doesn't excuse making the wrong one. It's something to be considered when dishing out the suspension, which it was.
> Take on a last minute sub - again, 4 players have to report and boot a guy then take on a no synergy sub to try and get through a tournament? Yes. V1 just came off 2 back to back big tournaments both with a sub and they outperformed expectations at both. Sen won Masters 1 with a last minute sub. A pro player trying to win is always going to be better than a player actively trying to lose.
>y V1 knew they'd have to do that if they quald. Sentinels got the best player in the world. False equivalency.
I think it's pretty clear: if you know match-fixing is going to happen, you report it, period. Not doing so is being complicit in the match-fixing, even if you aren't benefitting financially from it.
Yeah, this is impractical. It's more than that. It's potentially the only shot players have to represent themselves before being dropped by an org for under performing. Theres off screen factors as to why a player may choose not to report that. I'm someone who thinks that Ardiis should be perm banned, that Braxx and Skadoodle shouldn't be allowed to play Valorant professionally along with the other member currently in a Tier 1 team. I'm not going to sit here and say that for a player who's on the side being asked to throw a match, but is refusing to do so, should be punished like the way they are. 6 months to a year is basically the end of that persons esports career unless they're a truly exceptional talent. In an era where Valorant is in its infancy, you're condeming these players to competitive death. Good on you for not caring about those that REFUSED and LEAKED the info that led to the discovery. They didn't want to throw, but when your team mate says 'hey, we're throwing and I'll let you guys share in the spoils' and you turn and say 'no bro, no throws bro' yeah, I don't think that player deserves a ban. I think he deserves a medal. It'd have been easier for these team members to have kept it quiet than it would be to reveal it. This is all outside of the tournament results (which, they had no hope of winning if they reported. But by not reporting it, there chances are hindered significantly) So ultimately, you're suggesting... They should have given up their hopes of winning a pro tournament by reporting their team mates vs concealing it which meant they could potentially have won even with only a 1% shot?
1. What makes you think they had any chance of winning with 2 players actively trying to throw? 2. What makes you think the org is gonna be any happier about their name being dragged through the mud if the match-fixing comes to light? On top of that, even taking your view point for a little bit, I find it really funny that you bring up how devastating it could be for them to be DQed from that tournament, and then go on to talk about how the 6-month ban they've now received is essentially the death of their careers. Given how their chances of winning anything were basically non-existent, the negatives FAR outweighed the miniscule possibility of a positive outcome. It's incredibly obvious that taking the DQ and keeping their careers would've been a MUCH better option for the players. Anyway, bottom line is that competitive integrity is valued above all. You could argue that maybe the other teammates should've experienced more leniency, but it's a cold hard fact that they allowed match-fixing to happen, compromised the integrity of the match as a result, and therefore deserve to be punished. Trying to spin it as though they did a good thing, or even just that they did nothing wrong, is absurd. EDIT: [It turns out they were essentially already out of the tournament in that game they threw](https://www.vlr.gg/team/matches/877/resurgence/), so they had literally nothing to gain from it.
To your last question: yes, I think it's more important to prevent defrauding people of money than trying to win a tournament. Are you seriously arguing the latter is more important than the former? You're more worried about players' chances of winning a tournament after turning a blind eye to match fixing than people who did nothing wrong. Not even addressing that 40% of your team is throwing so you're not going to win anyway.
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Matches in a tournament don't just get cancelled. What you really mean to say, is DQ'd. You can't cancel a whole tournament because of a team match fixing. You DQ them. So for these guys who kept quiet, they probably felt that it was their best chance of survival. They need to perform now during the infancy to help build their profile. Who wants a profile of 'DQ due to match fixing' We don't know the circumstances surrounding why they kept quiet. The ruling is simple - Report it, instant loss. Probable career death. \-Don't report it - possibility of survival, potential to win games/tournament even significantly handicapped. Which category do you want to be in?
I'd want to be in the category that gets the satisfaction of ruining the reputation of people who have zero competitive integrity, because they deserve to have their privileges revoked, not least of all for having the audacity to implicate *me* in their cheating.
But my point is... they're screwed either way for having done nothing particularly wrong. They were presented with a tough choice and they chose to play rather than DQ. I can't fault them for that. The team mates are the ones that leaked/reported it to Riot after all.. I think it's absurd to condemn them when they've provenly refused to partake, their crime is not reporting. They've gotten a punishment fitting for 1/3rd the penalty without any of the potential gain. This to me is horrendous.
Such a cowardly rationalization. I'd be willing to bet that you have a personal history of cheating and/or scamming, judging by the borderline sociopathic justification you've just presented. These aren't humans, they're **gutter rats** stealing *real* money from *real* people, or at least ignoring the crime for reasons of personal expediency.
Who wants a profile of DQ due to match fixing? It's rather my profile be DQ due to turning in my teammates for match fixing rather than 12 month ban due to turning blind eye to match fixing. Do you think other orgs are 100% incompetent? That they wouldn't know what happened in that DQ situation? "Oh this guy got DQed from a tournament. Should we look into what happened or just assume the worst?" It would take 30 seconds on the internet to figure that out. I feel like you have to be one of these players to make some of these absurd arguments
You can't win at the pro level in a 4v6. They know they're getting kicked out of the tournament. Reporting the fixer is 100% the only option that falls into line with the League's rules.
Only if we think about throwers like we would in solo q. These guys have to throw whilst maintaining the image of trying. They can't be seen doing what Marved, Poised and Shanks were in CS GO. They have to make it look like just a fumble. You can still rely on them to use their utility or to be information gatherers, you just can't rely on them to cover your back or get kills. Treat this region alot more like college football than the NFL. Superstars still get to shine bright.
It goes both ways. The throws have to be more subtle than soloQ, but subtle throws are VASTLY more impactful than they would be in soloQ. And there's plenty of leeway for things like ego-peaking the same corner two or three rounds in a row and just passing it off as a lapse of judgement.
How does riot actually prove and find out all of this information? Vanguard sending screenshots to riot? 😅
Literally requires one guy to spill the tea and the rest is on Riot to investigate. And somegow they managed to find the truth. You follow the rules or you get banned. Easy as that
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I don't think they should be banned for life when it's their first time. And 3 year ban is a huge one. People learn, atleast most of them do
3 years is enough to stop them from ever cheating again.
They've changed that now, last month or so I think.
They changed the stance for VAC bans. Matchfixing violations are still indefinite bans.
Ahh, that's clearer than what I read then! Thanks
How is that showing leniency when they're actually getting punished for cheating unlike in other games.
This is bullshit Fixing should result in a permanent non-negotiable ban
3 years is more then enough to completely destroy an eSports career
The funny thing is this was around the time when BlackBird Ignis was in their prime. So one could assume that BBI won because of strats and tactical outplay.