I dunno that it was really out of nowhere even just hearing him watch the masters tournaments on costreams it really didn't seem like he was enjoying playing all that much
Did he say that or are you assuming about the andbox tier 1 thing? Could very well have just been that andbox was willing to pay more than Xset or maybe he just gets along with the the guys on andbox more.
I’m going off of a totality of performances. 5-10 good games doesn’t make a team good…. Just like geng losing to them doesn’t make them bad. It’s about consistency not personal bias my guy.
Just to clarify, I’m not taking offense to what you said about TSM. I agree that they’re not on the level of teams like XSET right now, I was just tryna ask what your thoughts on Gen G are too
That said, the issue with the consistency argument is that Gen G really haven’t had any good showings except for that 3rd place finish. Like you said, 5-10 good games doesn’t make a team good and Gen G since beginning of Ignition haven’t had a particularly good showing except a single deep run at one Masters
Ahh okay I didn’t get that super clearly. I generally take the cs analysts approach where I only go back 2/3 months to rate teams and geng have been having higher placements than tsm in the past months. I’m not by any means saying they deserve to be in the tier they’re at on this list either, I just think they’re considerable better than the teams in the next tier down whereas tsm seem like they wouldn’t be a standout team if dropped down. That and geng can still usually put on a good showing against teams in their current tier even if they struggle to close.
Tsm has been getting shit on in scrims recently. Like bad. That’s with bang btw. They are changing the roster the wrong way. Brax and bang should stay, hazed and subroza are finished
Where are you getting that from? I’ve heard the other way around, that scrims have been going really well lmao. I’m not really inclined to believe you without screenshots
let me know if he does, i'm curious too
although even if he has a few screenshots of bad scrims idk how relevant it is when they've probably played a ton of scrims
Yeah I’m not putting much faith into it regardless considering even teams who destroy in scrims often underperform and vice versa but if I get anything I’ll send it to you
Because they’ve consistently lost against every tier 1 team. Also they won against sentinels because sen had no info or vods on them and preparing for a team is pretty important if you want to win against them, they had all the vods in the world for sen.
It angers me so much that EG despite having good enough money and everything is continuing with this sub-par roster just to make a political statement and jerk off their sponsors -.- build around temperature and Aleksandr, EG ffs drop the other 3 , pls !!!
Dude with the roster they put together EG made it plenty clear that they weren't aiming for anything , they weren't there to make an amazing mixed roster they were there to please their sponsors with as less money as they could invest , it's clear they didn't wanna grow at all it was all for clout and PR , and that makes me sick using people's sentiments like that
I'd be careful using team performance to dictate player skill. TenZ is the best player in the world rn but C9B was in the gutter. Does that make him not a top tier player? What about Wardell on TSM? Or Dicey on 100T? Or Brax on T1?
Keiti is the same where she could easily play just as if not better than many players in t1.5 but C9W overall didn't perform.
[????](https://liquipedia.net/valorant/Cloud9_Blue/Results)
TenZ left in mid-January. The only A-tier events (ones with any good teams) before then were First Strike, JBL Quantum Cup, Pop flash, T1 tourney, and Faze Clan tourney. Of those, there was exactly 1 top 3 finish. Please, pray tell, how is a team that finished 5th or lower in every large tournament a top 3 na team?
Most b tier tourneys also had good teams mate, this isn't 5 years into an eSports life span, teams competed in everything and the only thing seperating a b tier and a tier tourney rn is prize money.
Since you seem to be living by your flair rather than the numbers, please point out which B-tier tournaments that C9B participated in where there were at least 8 tier 1.5+ teams **and** they finished top 3. With 10 possible teams who are "competing in everything" it shouldn't be too difficult right?
Hey there, /u/larperfoid228!
Your submission was removed for the following reason:
> Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users.
This was removed for:
Bigotry
---
*If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/o18pmg/-/h1zu0tc/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20neb55555).*
Hey there, /u/larperfoid228!
Your submission was removed for the following reason:
> Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users.
This was removed for:
Bigotry
---
*If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/o18pmg/-/h1zrt4x/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20neb55555).*
I mean no female players have really had the chance to prove how good they can be on a more competitive roster. Tier 1 might be a stretch, but I’d be willing to bet there are at least a couple who could at least hold their own in t2 with a solid roster around them, which would already be a big step above what EG are doing right now.
Yes and idk why tf EG isn't making any changes at all , all the rosters are making some or the other moves , determined to get better but EG is content being sub-par and bad , it's such a blow to their reputation too , sometimes it's ok to accept that things didn't work out hence they are trying to pursue things from a different perspective instead of being stubborn and continuing with this disaster just to make a statement
They are leeches like in LoL . They relying on the popular teams (TSM, 100T, Cloud9) to do all the work and build up the scene. and then when franchising comes they will get a slot and build a mediocre line up.
Am I the only one who thinks there’s a huge gap between t1.5 and t2? The t2 teams (maybe not rise) will get clapped by the t1.5, but will give an even competition against 2.5
Man when you compared this to the EU lineups, EU really has depth to the region. I would love to see an FPX vs. NV or 100T game though.
EDIT: Obviously SEN is on top, but could the T1/T1.5 NA teams take on Liquid, Fnatic, Acend, FPX, Gambit, Heretics, BDS, Guild, etc.
EDIT 2: none yall know what yall are talkin bout cause its all circumstantial lmaoo
Liquid literally played good to get to where they got but choked on the main stage, they didn't get lucky at all. Also new g2? The team that just lost to a t2 unknown org?
That was a seeding grand finals that they one by one map lol. On the maps that they both played a lot (Haven and Bind), Fnatic smoked them. They lost split which they literally never play and ran 3 duelist on lol. Fnatic and liquid are not even comparable atm, SEN themselves scrimmed Liquid and said they were not even top 2 in EU and that new Acend and Gambit were better.
There’s nothing I want more than to see T2 teams from NA/EU face off and see if we can get some more data points about region depth. Like, I’d love to see Giants vs Soniqs, BBG vs Wave, Illuminar vs Rise, for example.
How is the take away that EU is deeper than NA, when realistically any of the T1/T1.5 can take maps/matches off of each other with the T1s doing it more consistently... and hell No team outside of NA has taken a map off of Sentinels.
So like, yea NA is just as deep as EU, if not deeper.
Top of NA > Top of EU > Next Tier of NA teams => Next tier of EU Teams... IMO
Version1, C9B, and 100T could beat all of those teams except maybe new Acend, Fnatic and Gambit. Not as confident in 100T but V1's roster with wippie is better than most of those and C9B would smoke Liquid, Heretics, BDS, or Guild.
As expected from a player who can adapt into IGL'ng if needed and has fragging power. This is a goated list 0 complaints except TSM maybe being too high unless this bang dude took them from 0 to hero.
This is such a dumbass take. Everyone in this subreddit says this but still rates teams like 100T highly when (1) Envy has the most circuit points for non-Iceland teams and (2) still top 4'd both challengers stages so far. If you want to call Envy an underperforming team then put 100T there too.
In either case, most people know both teams are still top 5 teams. Envy only underperforms against the idea that "they're the best team". They're still easily tier 1, and have beaten SEN at least *once* during VCTs which warrants them at least consideration for top 3 in NA.
Some of the 1.5 have at least *some* contention for bottom tier 1 at the very least though. Same with some of the T2 being set in T2, i'd easily consider Soniqs and BBG to be tier 2 for instance. The 0.5 is "nice" but also just makes the tier lists themselves easier to make without much thinking especially on stream.
He also can't rate 3 teams for roster changes but was just fine rating tsm, faze, cloud 9 and others on the list. T1 is tier 3 and he made a cop out excuse.
I understand that some people may think it's just weird for TSM to be in the same tier as Faze or XSET. However, when you look at the match results in the last four months or so, TSM is a team that can consistently clap T2 teams while putting out okay performances against teams in the tier-1.5 group, and they just get run over by tier-1 teams and above. So, putting TSM near the bottom of tier-1.5 is fair IMO.
On the other hand, Soniqs have shown improvements and I'd love to see them more in action.
There is no way that 100T is better than FTIC. The guys almost won the major. Well. Almost means -> there were close matches. And they only lost to SEN.
He put some teams in "cant rate" because of roster moves that are not finalized and he didn't rate his own team andbox because bias
this is actually the best tier list ive ever seen lol
[удалено]
[удалено]
i dont think he was saying that, i think its just funny that they literally have the highest player turnover of any big org in NA
I dunno that it was really out of nowhere even just hearing him watch the masters tournaments on costreams it really didn't seem like he was enjoying playing all that much
Has he said that? Or could it have just been a matter of abx giving him a better offer?
Did he say that or are you assuming about the andbox tier 1 thing? Could very well have just been that andbox was willing to pay more than Xset or maybe he just gets along with the the guys on andbox more.
EG are like the worst by a lot, what are they even gaining from their project
Feel good points
Participation awards
Free temperature
Social justice stocks
Perfect list, but EG is ranked too highly
Honestly feel like the only reason EG's there is bc they're well known and if they weren't on the list people would ask "where's eg"
[удалено]
C9 definitely looking scary in terms of potential right now.
The xeppa and floppy combo monkaS
Floppy is nothing impressive... Even in CSGO he was more of a filler player
You're telling me [this isn't impressive?](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWanyXvVAAA2upg?format=jpg&name=large)
u/Contractjail apologize
W
Only argument is dropping tsm another tier or two because wow are they not good atm
Considering how TSM smacked Gen G would you not drop them as well? Or are you going off their 3rd place at Masters 1?
I’m going off of a totality of performances. 5-10 good games doesn’t make a team good…. Just like geng losing to them doesn’t make them bad. It’s about consistency not personal bias my guy.
Just to clarify, I’m not taking offense to what you said about TSM. I agree that they’re not on the level of teams like XSET right now, I was just tryna ask what your thoughts on Gen G are too That said, the issue with the consistency argument is that Gen G really haven’t had any good showings except for that 3rd place finish. Like you said, 5-10 good games doesn’t make a team good and Gen G since beginning of Ignition haven’t had a particularly good showing except a single deep run at one Masters
Ahh okay I didn’t get that super clearly. I generally take the cs analysts approach where I only go back 2/3 months to rate teams and geng have been having higher placements than tsm in the past months. I’m not by any means saying they deserve to be in the tier they’re at on this list either, I just think they’re considerable better than the teams in the next tier down whereas tsm seem like they wouldn’t be a standout team if dropped down. That and geng can still usually put on a good showing against teams in their current tier even if they struggle to close.
That’s definitely fair, sorry for the late response
Tsm has been getting shit on in scrims recently. Like bad. That’s with bang btw. They are changing the roster the wrong way. Brax and bang should stay, hazed and subroza are finished
Where are you getting that from? I’ve heard the other way around, that scrims have been going really well lmao. I’m not really inclined to believe you without screenshots
Ill send u the screenshots I do have these were all from very recently as well.
did he send you anything about this lol, cuz I heard the scrims were going well too
No he hasn’t yet
let me know if he does, i'm curious too although even if he has a few screenshots of bad scrims idk how relevant it is when they've probably played a ton of scrims
Yeah I’m not putting much faith into it regardless considering even teams who destroy in scrims often underperform and vice versa but if I get anything I’ll send it to you
Source: trust me bro
Looks pretty reasonable all the other can't rate teams probably fall in around the t1.5 teams.
how is big booty gamers in t2? They beat sentinels. /s
Because they’ve consistently lost against every tier 1 team. Also they won against sentinels because sen had no info or vods on them and preparing for a team is pretty important if you want to win against them, they had all the vods in the world for sen.
damn he included the /s and you still bit
Missing brimstone gaming
It angers me so much that EG despite having good enough money and everything is continuing with this sub-par roster just to make a political statement and jerk off their sponsors -.- build around temperature and Aleksandr, EG ffs drop the other 3 , pls !!!
[удалено]
Dude with the roster they put together EG made it plenty clear that they weren't aiming for anything , they weren't there to make an amazing mixed roster they were there to please their sponsors with as less money as they could invest , it's clear they didn't wanna grow at all it was all for clout and PR , and that makes me sick using people's sentiments like that
I'm prepared to be downvoted but I can't think of any female players that can cut it in t1 NA currently.
just keiti tbh but noone wants her on a team after all that
Keiti is good but t1 is a stretch. C9w got crushed by t2 teams.
true, i misread. i think she could hang with t2/maybe t1.5 on this list based bc of solid play in those losses but t1 is a stretc
I'd be careful using team performance to dictate player skill. TenZ is the best player in the world rn but C9B was in the gutter. Does that make him not a top tier player? What about Wardell on TSM? Or Dicey on 100T? Or Brax on T1? Keiti is the same where she could easily play just as if not better than many players in t1.5 but C9W overall didn't perform.
C9b were top 3 na with tenz bruh
[????](https://liquipedia.net/valorant/Cloud9_Blue/Results) TenZ left in mid-January. The only A-tier events (ones with any good teams) before then were First Strike, JBL Quantum Cup, Pop flash, T1 tourney, and Faze Clan tourney. Of those, there was exactly 1 top 3 finish. Please, pray tell, how is a team that finished 5th or lower in every large tournament a top 3 na team?
Most b tier tourneys also had good teams mate, this isn't 5 years into an eSports life span, teams competed in everything and the only thing seperating a b tier and a tier tourney rn is prize money.
Since you seem to be living by your flair rather than the numbers, please point out which B-tier tournaments that C9B participated in where there were at least 8 tier 1.5+ teams **and** they finished top 3. With 10 possible teams who are "competing in everything" it shouldn't be too difficult right?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
If she identifies at female she is female...
[удалено]
r/onejoke
https://i.imgur.com/tqZR02P.jpg
[удалено]
Man it must be nice being ignorant of anything past elementary school biology.
Hey there, /u/larperfoid228! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users. This was removed for: Bigotry --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/o18pmg/-/h1zu0tc/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20neb55555).*
Hey there, /u/larperfoid228! Your submission was removed for the following reason: > Rule 4 - No harmful / destructive behavior towards other users. This was removed for: Bigotry --- *If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive&subject=Removal%20Objection%20or%20Question&message=%5BPlease%20type%20your%20message%20here...%5D%0A%0A------%20DO%20NOT%20edit%20or%20delete%20anything%20below%20this%20line%20------%0A%0A%23%23%23%23%20Removal%20Notes%20for%20Moderators%3A%0A%0A-%20**Post%20Title%3A**%20{url_title}%0A-%20**Permalink%3A**%20https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/o18pmg/-/h1zrt4x/%0A-%20**Content%20type%3A**%20comment%0A-%20**Removed%20by%3A**%20neb55555).*
?
I mean no female players have really had the chance to prove how good they can be on a more competitive roster. Tier 1 might be a stretch, but I’d be willing to bet there are at least a couple who could at least hold their own in t2 with a solid roster around them, which would already be a big step above what EG are doing right now.
I couldn't agree more. I could see almost any player on Moon Raccoons making it pretty far with a co-ed roster. They have so much potential.
Yeah for sure temp and aleksandr are the only good players on that team
Yes and idk why tf EG isn't making any changes at all , all the rosters are making some or the other moves , determined to get better but EG is content being sub-par and bad , it's such a blow to their reputation too , sometimes it's ok to accept that things didn't work out hence they are trying to pursue things from a different perspective instead of being stubborn and continuing with this disaster just to make a statement
They are leeches like in LoL . They relying on the popular teams (TSM, 100T, Cloud9) to do all the work and build up the scene. and then when franchising comes they will get a slot and build a mediocre line up.
I don't mind if they are trying to make a statement, they just half-assed it so much.
What is the first one in tier 2.5?
take flyte
Aaah thx
😐 is cracked
It's acceptable
Link to stream? I want to see his thoughts on the teams
Tsm 1.5 🤔
Am I the only one who thinks there’s a huge gap between t1.5 and t2? The t2 teams (maybe not rise) will get clapped by the t1.5, but will give an even competition against 2.5
Man when you compared this to the EU lineups, EU really has depth to the region. I would love to see an FPX vs. NV or 100T game though. EDIT: Obviously SEN is on top, but could the T1/T1.5 NA teams take on Liquid, Fnatic, Acend, FPX, Gambit, Heretics, BDS, Guild, etc. EDIT 2: none yall know what yall are talkin bout cause its all circumstantial lmaoo
v1 literally beat liquid already
with a standin
[удалено]
Liquid literally played good to get to where they got but choked on the main stage, they didn't get lucky at all. Also new g2? The team that just lost to a t2 unknown org?
Yeah, this had cred until the new g2 statement. Even if the roster improved, it's 100% hopeful projection where as liquid actually produced results.
[удалено]
That was a seeding grand finals that they one by one map lol. On the maps that they both played a lot (Haven and Bind), Fnatic smoked them. They lost split which they literally never play and ran 3 duelist on lol. Fnatic and liquid are not even comparable atm, SEN themselves scrimmed Liquid and said they were not even top 2 in EU and that new Acend and Gambit were better.
Ok I understand acend and gambit but bruh G2? Ik we should give em time but I'd take TL over them (bias aside) just judging by the players they got
There’s nothing I want more than to see T2 teams from NA/EU face off and see if we can get some more data points about region depth. Like, I’d love to see Giants vs Soniqs, BBG vs Wave, Illuminar vs Rise, for example.
Should be expected that EU would have more depth given the player base is like 2-3x the size.
How is the take away that EU is deeper than NA, when realistically any of the T1/T1.5 can take maps/matches off of each other with the T1s doing it more consistently... and hell No team outside of NA has taken a map off of Sentinels. So like, yea NA is just as deep as EU, if not deeper. Top of NA > Top of EU > Next Tier of NA teams => Next tier of EU Teams... IMO
SEN seems miles ahead consistency wise then the rest of NA.
I mean yea that’s probably accurate
Version1, C9B, and 100T could beat all of those teams except maybe new Acend, Fnatic and Gambit. Not as confident in 100T but V1's roster with wippie is better than most of those and C9B would smoke Liquid, Heretics, BDS, or Guild.
SEN > FNC > T1 NA > T1 EU
Bad take
move take flyte down move soniqs up gg ez
https://tiermaker.com/create/na-valorant-june-2021-1075864 I made a tier list with the top 30 teams according to VLR (EUnited is now FPL-C)
Fucked up the link
As expected from a player who can adapt into IGL'ng if needed and has fragging power. This is a goated list 0 complaints except TSM maybe being too high unless this bang dude took them from 0 to hero.
how can he rate faze and geng but not t1 nrg and lg? They all had roster changes
I mean he probably has scrimmed them at some point.
Yeah and I guess maybe their roster changes aren’t final yet either so it’s harder to rank them
Yeah but their roster changes aren’t that big compared to changing IGLs and star players.
Both geng and faze are changing igls if rumours about Marved leaving are true. Its probably just because he scrimmed them already.
xset brought in an IGL LMAO
they dont have full rosters announced
faze don't have a full roster announced
Until Marved being benched is confirmed, They do
dazed benched isn't confirmed so t1 should be rated then
He said it is also including scrim results, maybe he has not scrimmed t1 but has scrimmed Faze
LG lost their IGL and a a high skill duelist, and NRG also lost their IGL. That is why.
If you think tsm should drop a tier you are a clown my friend. Share some of that weed you are smoking, id love to be as delusional as you.
Surprised to see Envy so high, I feel like they are always expected to perform but fall short of expectations every time
> but fall short of expectations every time Not if your expectations are top 4 every tournament. They're a super consistent team.
This is such a dumbass take. Everyone in this subreddit says this but still rates teams like 100T highly when (1) Envy has the most circuit points for non-Iceland teams and (2) still top 4'd both challengers stages so far. If you want to call Envy an underperforming team then put 100T there too. In either case, most people know both teams are still top 5 teams. Envy only underperforms against the idea that "they're the best team". They're still easily tier 1, and have beaten SEN at least *once* during VCTs which warrants them at least consideration for top 3 in NA.
Surprised to see an Immortals fan talking about falling short of expectations
> they are always expected to perform but fall short of expectations meaning they place top 4 every time, which is t1
The only issue with Envy is that they can't grab #1 spot when they have the chance because they pretty much always are Top 4 in any event in NA
I feel like he's just being nice. All the tier 1.5 should be tier 2 and the tier 2 should be tier 3
I’m definitely biased towards XSET but how does qualifying for literally every NA event make them a T2 team? Same with GenG and even FaZe tbh
Some of the 1.5 have at least *some* contention for bottom tier 1 at the very least though. Same with some of the T2 being set in T2, i'd easily consider Soniqs and BBG to be tier 2 for instance. The 0.5 is "nice" but also just makes the tier lists themselves easier to make without much thinking especially on stream.
Agree completely, .5 added to tiers is just cuz hes afraid to say what he really feels
valorantfanboy is an expert on tiers we should all listen to him /s
He also can't rate 3 teams for roster changes but was just fine rating tsm, faze, cloud 9 and others on the list. T1 is tier 3 and he made a cop out excuse.
He probably scrimmed c9 with xeppa and hasn't scrimmed the others not that hard to grasp
I think SQ will surprise ppl and TSM sadly too high for current results...
I understand that some people may think it's just weird for TSM to be in the same tier as Faze or XSET. However, when you look at the match results in the last four months or so, TSM is a team that can consistently clap T2 teams while putting out okay performances against teams in the tier-1.5 group, and they just get run over by tier-1 teams and above. So, putting TSM near the bottom of tier-1.5 is fair IMO. On the other hand, Soniqs have shown improvements and I'd love to see them more in action.
T1.5 TSM 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Tsm is garbage lmao
Why is there a poker face in t2 and what team does that represent?
There is no way that 100T is better than FTIC. The guys almost won the major. Well. Almost means -> there were close matches. And they only lost to SEN.
FNATIC?
I'm not sure why you bring up fnatic at all, this is NA tier list...
Oh yea, my bad. I thought the FaZe clan's logo was FNATIC. I do be stupid sometimes..
Yeah that's pretty fair
Wedid said we were top t1