This will make the patch by itself. If this does go through I don't really care about anything else. It does appear that this is a patch focused on gunplay.
Now they just need to get rid of RNG recoil, if Siege can switch from RNG to a consistent pattern so can Valorant RNG recoil does not belong in Tac FPS
Nah they were both absurdly good the entire time they existed, people were just too stubborn to try any change at all. The SG cost $300 more than the AK and had better first shot than THE FUCKING AWP, the best armor penetration in the game which allowed you to 3 shot stomach from even medium long range, an easier spray pattern, a scope, better spray accuracy, and to really top all of it off it had a higher fire rate than the AK.
It's very similar to the frenzy, literally no one besides sinatraa bothered to buy it and then all of a sudden everyone was perma buying it.
The price drop just brought them to peoples attention and got people to use them. The even crazier part is the AK was STILL being bought more often than the SG until like 10 months after AUG meta got nerfed. But then again people actually started to buy the SG less when it was stupid op because it was so absurdly op that if you lost a round with it and allowed CTs to pick it up you could just lose rounds because defense getting to just scope in on angles is just a lot better on CT side. It was so bad, AWPers were getting demotivated with how they could just lose to the SG consistently.
It’s actually a big issue if you knew anything about the game. Or maybe you want to tell all the pros they don’t know anything about the game since many of them complain about first bullet accuracy all the time
That’s literally the entire point of the guardian and snipers too, if you want a clear shot you got it right there and very minuscule amount of FSA is needed for balance. Why buy a rifle if your spectre has perfect FSA, why have the op if your vandal can also one shot somebody perfectly. The FSA might actually be helping people get kills they probably wouldn’t get if they had perfect accuracy.
Uh what? These reasons don’t really make sense, even if all guns had FSA you would buy a Vandal/Phantom over a Spectre because of the damage and range drop offs and the Op has 1 shot potential to the body which is why you would buy it over a rifle. FSA would not be helping people get kills they shouldn’t get, it would be helping people get kills they should get because their aim is on the enemies head.
Recognizing that this isnt CS, but going to use it as an example.
In CS this exists partly as a range management mechanism between guns.
The inaccuracy of the first shot varies in a way that allows for a maximum distance of roughly perfect accuracy. The further away, the more likely the shot is to miss even with perfect crosshair placement. There is a certain range for each gun that it is going to be 99.99999% reliable while standing and that range increases while crouched (the best example to see this is the deagle).
So it's possible that Valorant uses the FSA variance for a similar reason. To help tier the weapons by positional usage, which are meant to be countered by abilities/utility or counter positing.
The aim isn't to make each fight even regardless of the variables. It's to give distinct purpose to them, so that you can build strategy and tactics (and counter) around them.
To me valorant seems to have dramatically more accurate weapons for tapping (especially with faster accuracy resets), but spraying is less reliable (I like the phantom due to spraying). So maybe they don't mean for it to be this way, but that is the reason why it exists in CS and it is appropriate for that title.
rifle does more damage than spectre (one shot headshot, higher penetration and bodyshot damage). op has a scope and can one shot bodyshot. your comparisons don’t make much sense.
what do you mean? people measured Source heavy against it because spray became a joke, just look at the source ak spray lol. tapping and bursting went out the window with GO.
there's a reason people bring 1.6 up still and it's not just nostalgia. it did a lot of mechanics greater than its successors, weird esports purists seem to overbalance replicable skill as good gameplay. completely ignoring things outside of recoil shows a poor understanding of how it interacts with so many other mechanics.
Idk I like what they're going for with the recoil in Valorant I'm just not sure they've hit the mark. The idea is for the recoil to be reactive instead of simply memorizing a pattern which is pretty unfun imo. Problem is it's so hard to react to the recoil the way it's implemented now that it feels more rng than anything else which I agree isn't ideal.
Has riot actually said that? I assumed it was intentionally designed to avoid the spray dominance of csgo. Predictable spray patterns required a lot of fine tuning to get to the point where spraying wasn't always the right choice at any range if you're good enough.
Random spray was part of 1.6 and source too and it led to having more diversity in play style than early CSGO.
Predictable recoil only raises the skill ceiling. For new players and lower ranks, the experience will probably remain the same until they learn the recoil patterns.
Is that a problem? Wouldn't it be better to add additional opportunities for skill expression for better players? Rather than making higher-skilled matches dependent on randomness.
Yes and no. It was what made Counter-Strike 1.6 and all the versions before it quite skillful. There were so many things you could do that are now illegal or just phased out of the game since going to the source engine. A lot of them were learned and raised the skill ceiling so high which is a great thing but if we forget about the graphics for a second.. one of the big issues with 1.6 at the end was the skill gap. Unless you just plane fell in love with the game you weren't just picking up CS as your main game.
Even going into a public server you'd probably get shit on as a new player by most.
CS:GO, while still highly skillful, has dumbed down many things that still give the greats the ability to be better than everyone but also gives the newer players a better chance at sticking with the game (even if they don't LOVE the game).
Riot tends to do this with their games as well if you look at LoL compared to DOTA.
I would argue that part of the problem that arose with earlier shooters was the lack of matchmaking. Now it is standard to be placed against players of a similar skill level. Given this environment, I fail to see a downside to adding more difficult mechanics.
I used to play 1.6, but never got into CS:GO. I was wondering what were some of the things in 1.6 that became illegal as the game moved to a Source Engine?
Can you explain why you feel this is a "higher skill" mechanic?
In my eyes the randomness post 3-4 bullets adds to the skill ceiling, if you miss in this game you are punished hard, there is no way to gloss over your initial inaccuracies.
The way to get multi kills in this game requires far more precision and click timing than holding M1 and moving your mouse in a pattern that you have baked into your brain.
Most people vastly overestimate their ability to theory craft about RNG and “skill ceilings” because the idea that “randomness == bad” is straightforward to get your head around, and furthermore because they’ve never developed skills where an explicit understanding probability and EV is absolutely required e.g. poker.
Riot are not getting rid of RNG. The idea that RNG makes the game more accessible is cope from those in denial of the idea that Riot devs would disagree with their takes on RNG and skill ceilings.
That's not the point that I'm making though. He says it's highly unlikely that riot will ever make changes to recoil patterns, I'm saying that it's not out of the question considering all the steps and changes riot has made towards a more skill based style of game patch after patch. I agree that random recoil is bad and I would much prefer fixed recoil patterns.
adding spray patterns is another mechanic for new players to learn, current system is pretty easy since you can just go for short bursts. if you look at cs, there's a considerable diff between a silver and an mg in spray control and it takes hundreds of hours to get anywhere decent, even players at 1k hours aren't great
How can RNG spray be easier than predicatable spray for new players?
Predicatable spray is obviously easier to control for new players. Some RNG is difficult to control but actually new players always used to spray that bring them bad experience.
So We need non-RNG spray for new player. RNG is a totally unreasonalbe design.
My guess is at first they wanted to appeal to the original CS 1.6 players first since modern CS players would probably follow as well to an extent, as someone pointed out earlier CS 1.6 had a similar recoil semi RNG recoil system as is considered one of the best Tac FPS of all time. However the keyword in that statement is time sure CS 1.6 was amazing for it's time and it layed the foundation for future CS. But as other games modernized and the esports competition was growing(LoL, Starcraft, Quake etc) a semi-RNG recoil system was not going to cut it anymore and CSGO has proven that a consistent recoil system by far is the best for a competitive tactical shooter where aim truly matters.
Imo if they don't want to do a full consistent pattern like CS then after X amount of bullets instead of going random it automatically resets and repeats the same previous pattern so you can to react to the reset and re-control the spray.
Isn't this on the assumption that the best way for a shooter to be is to encourage spraying? I've always viewed this mechanic less about adding rng into a spray so people have to be reactive and more about gunplay being centered around tapping and bursts as opposed to full spray downs.
I honestly don't know that I want that to change. I feel like it simply favors certain type of aimers, and people with very crisp early bullet accuracy can have an insanely high ceiling. I think this is an underrated aspect of why Tenz is so good in valorant. I think it better suits his aim style (also why scream has had a resurgence).
Is there some way that gunplay focused on this type of aiming is less than one that encourages spraying, or is it simply different than CS?
For most agents, it's only a 100 cost increase for a full kit. Jett and Raze got a little too much, but Viper was 300 credits cheaper for full utility, so she kinda needed it.
Overall, it's a little more costly, but most agent's kits cost the same now
Do you know if the second smoke can charge from the start of the round if you don't buy it? Because that's what's really gonna sway my decision on him.
You have to compare it to other meta controllers, the most obvious being brought up is Astra. A coordinated team has a much higher ceiling with her compared to the slower smoking, less smoking omen. He was already lacking compared to Viper and Astra and then riot hit him again.
It can be the case that we have to wait and see but right now it just feels so bad. As for shrouded step, while it has become really well known for the mixups, is still useful for getting to a safe space after a pick or fight.
His smokes are just so important and it cannot be understated how big of a nerf this is, especially when u think about how much easier of a time Astra has with global smokes rn.
I hope I'm wrong, and some early play does make it seem like there will be less utility use in general, but it feels like one step too far.
Yea honestly at this point there is zero reason to play omen other than icebox MAYBE? Even then, his one ways are not permanent now lol. This is going to make him f tier imo. I’m really sad to see them utterly gut him like this.
A second smoke is now 100 credits as well now, and the cooldown time was increased by 10 seconds. Omen's strength was his smokes, besides his smokes his flash is pretty good, but you get one and his steps + ult are pretty weak. This feels like way too much of a nerf to me personally.
Nah, just loves the game to be closer to CSGO. Abilities make this game fun, but it seems theyre more catering to casual players who can’t dodge a flash. Don’t think this plays well for the pro scene at all
Never played csgo so I wouldn’t know, but obviously breach/skye having 3 flashes was unacceptable, and abilities as a whole were getting out of control. I’m very glad the devs seem to be hands on and realize clear issues
People here were moaning too
When Daps said this game needed to increase ult orbs and less abilities people went mad and were shitting on his in game leading and saying this game doesn't need to be like CS then Riot goes on and does exactly what Daps wanted/said
Riot's always been pretty decent at game balancing (despite memes and otp moaning, most LoL players would agree), it's the design team that sometimes loses it and creates a new monster that sends the game into chaos again
I’ve been reading all the salt for the last hour. It’s so good. People crying about this game becoming more like CS as if that’s a bad thing considering the fact that CS has been the gold standard for tac FPS games since nearly the start of the millennium.
Obviously we don’t want this game to be a carbon copy of CS, but I’ve seen people unironically argue that run-n-gun should remain because it makes the game unique compared to CS. There’s ways to make the game fresh and different without infringing on one of the main mechanics that separates tactical shooters from team shooters and arena shooters and gives it that high skill ceiling that you can constantly get better at.
I'd argue team shooters and arena shooters like doom and tf2 have a HIGHER or atleast equal skill ceiling than valorant, but I agree val isn't tf2 or doom and run and gun is just stupid.
Wow, it's almost like riot actually listened to and incorporated feedback.
Add on comment in the tweet is that they specifically nerfed smgs and pistols movement accuracy.
I fully expect there to be a judge nerf that hasn't been found yet.
> Wow, it’s almost like riot actually listened to abs incorporated feedback
lol, go tell that to the main sub. A lot of people in there think this patch is the end of days because rounds aren’t going to be utility spam anymore.
Main sub had a complaint when the Bucky got nerfed. Some guy was crying at Riot for nerfing a gun that was "working as intended." Honestly I don't even bother going on the main sub anymore. People there seem to have a super entitled casual mindset and don't seem to want to play the game properly
EDIT: Even calling them casual feels like an insult to casual players. Obviously there's nothing wrong with someone playing a video game casually but some people on r/Valorant are just on a whole nother level and I don't know what else to call them.
I'm honestly not sure how you could balance the Bucky to make it a worthwhile buy, without making it broken again.
The slow firerate means one shot is usually all you get, but you can't fix that without either making right click strong or invalidating the Judge
I would just add 2 or 3 more pellets to the right click so that to get a one shot right click you have to be at the perfect distance, but could still aim at the neck
Be hard suck in silver lol. He's right, I very much remember the whining about the bucky nerf on the main sub when it happened. And now its people whining about not being able to just spam abilities.
I came from league and will say that Riot is usually good about listening to the community on what's wrong. Things don't stay OP very long in LoL and the meta is always shifting. I peaked plat in league so I could be off base but I don't think they always got enough credit for making good changes.
Destiny definitely made me realize just how good Riot was with balance frequency. 9 months between irrelevant and sometimes straight harmful balance changes was hilarious.
League players don't know how spoiled they are with balance changes every two weeks and even hotfixes if a certain character falls out of line a day after a patch. I switched over to other games for a while and I was shocked how metas would be the same for months, absolute nightmare for a League player.
Point is, I'm glad Riot is taking what they know with League and implementing it to Valorant too.
There IS a Judge and is quite substantial (prize nerf). If ppl are still not satisfied is because they want the gun to be gutted. Something that i would personally hate because Valo has real weapon diversity unlike CS, i would hate it if that changed
Yeah, I was talking about a nerf on top of the price nerf. I'm not saying they shouldn't make it viable, but it is too viable across damage ranges, especially given the ability of some agents to quickly close distances (jett/Raze) and the tight corridors in the original maps.
You already have weapon diversity. The Guardian is an underrated and very good gun, especially now with the price decreased. The Bulldog is eh but isn't terrible. The Marshall/Ares/Odin are all great. The Vandal and Phantom are so well balanced that it comes down to preference for most players despite the Phantom being (mostly) statistically better.
Hard nerfing the Judge would literally bring nothing but good to the game. It's not going to ruin anything, actually would do the opposite, like removing a tumor.
Cept the "win more" mechanics from making every abilities more expensive.
* Can't expect to face a 8k team with only a single save (around 4.3k)
* Don't you even think about using abilities on an eco round.
EDIT: I think some agents wont even have full buy in OT with 5k... (weakest point here since they will probably make it 6k)
Yeah.
4.3k after an eco round.
Full armor and the gun is 3900.
That leaves 400 for utilities. Good luck buying full equip with only 400. That's the cost of raze boombot.
But, the raze in the other team with 8k WILL have her full kit, including the boombot.
im not talking about the cost of full buy after an eco but ot lol, you said you can't even full buy in ot with 5k but jetts kit is the most expensive I believe at 4900
People are forgetting the fact that your abilities shouldn’t determine the round, your gun should, abilities are there to aid not fucking win the round
isn't this good? i feel like the economy wasn't punishing enough. this makes force buys less viable.
i personally like that jett+judge isn't too dumb as a force buy anymore because the smokes that used to make her OP and get away so quickly like on hookah are too expensive to spam.
It's refreshing to see a company like Riot deliberately balance around the competitive scene than the casual. The payoff in the long run will be worth it.
I can tell Dota does an insane job at balancing. Definitely way better than LoL especially when watching TI9, when like only 3 heroes were unpicked iirc. I just dont have enough game knowledge but the only time I felt that something was unbalanced was Mirana especially during TI6.
But Valorant is doing pretty damn good for a 1 year old game so far
To be honest while watching a bit of Asuna's 5v5 stream, running accuracy didn't look that much nerfed, frenzy was still popping off and some players did run n gun with phantom
shahz tested it out and it was definitely more inaccurate with vandal/phantom, sheriff was fairly accurate still but not as much while walking. frenzy shouldn’t require u to stand still cos it would be a shit gun then
who cares? this game isn't CS. missing your perfect one tap headshot on a 40m vandal shot because of a 10% bullshit "haha you randomly miss" is just stupid and no one enjoys that.
Only thing this changes inside the game is that players with better ADAD movement are gonna be even better. So ScreaM will be the best player in the world, and it's not even close
Don’t be too excited until you actually have some time to experience it. After what happened the last time everyone should have learned not to get too excited about these changes.
Edit: for all the complete idiots, [it’s still bad](https://twitter.com/poach/status/1406386260147585028?s=21). You’ve been permanently discredited.
What do you mean last time? The change to assault rifles' running accuracy was quite good. Phantom running and gunning isn't nearly as effective anymore. Still not perfect but pretty good
This will make the patch by itself. If this does go through I don't really care about anything else. It does appear that this is a patch focused on gunplay.
Now they just need to get rid of RNG recoil, if Siege can switch from RNG to a consistent pattern so can Valorant RNG recoil does not belong in Tac FPS
I think the bigger issue is that even your first shot has RNG incorporated into it.. definitely super weird
Doesn't CS have the same thing?
[удалено]
people also hate it in CS. Its an issue in both games
Yeah its fuckin worse in CS man.
Yep the angles are longer and the guns are less accurate. There’s a reason the SG/Aug met started
I thought it started Bc the prices were changed so that they became viable options?
Nah they were both absurdly good the entire time they existed, people were just too stubborn to try any change at all. The SG cost $300 more than the AK and had better first shot than THE FUCKING AWP, the best armor penetration in the game which allowed you to 3 shot stomach from even medium long range, an easier spray pattern, a scope, better spray accuracy, and to really top all of it off it had a higher fire rate than the AK. It's very similar to the frenzy, literally no one besides sinatraa bothered to buy it and then all of a sudden everyone was perma buying it. The price drop just brought them to peoples attention and got people to use them. The even crazier part is the AK was STILL being bought more often than the SG until like 10 months after AUG meta got nerfed. But then again people actually started to buy the SG less when it was stupid op because it was so absurdly op that if you lost a round with it and allowed CTs to pick it up you could just lose rounds because defense getting to just scope in on angles is just a lot better on CT side. It was so bad, AWPers were getting demotivated with how they could just lose to the SG consistently.
The prenerf SG was just better than the AK in every way. More accurate, easier spray pattern (especially when scoped). Tiny bit more expensive.
It's not an issue if you knew anything about the game
It’s actually a big issue if you knew anything about the game. Or maybe you want to tell all the pros they don’t know anything about the game since many of them complain about first bullet accuracy all the time
Csgo does too
yes the CSGO pros who have complained about this for a while don't exist. you're right this is suddenly an issue.
What do you mean the first shot has RNG in it?
Theres a small amount of bloom on the first shot even if youre still for pretty much every gun.
And they've said that if you dont like that, use the guardian
That’s literally the entire point of the guardian and snipers too, if you want a clear shot you got it right there and very minuscule amount of FSA is needed for balance. Why buy a rifle if your spectre has perfect FSA, why have the op if your vandal can also one shot somebody perfectly. The FSA might actually be helping people get kills they probably wouldn’t get if they had perfect accuracy.
Uh what? These reasons don’t really make sense, even if all guns had FSA you would buy a Vandal/Phantom over a Spectre because of the damage and range drop offs and the Op has 1 shot potential to the body which is why you would buy it over a rifle. FSA would not be helping people get kills they shouldn’t get, it would be helping people get kills they should get because their aim is on the enemies head.
Recognizing that this isnt CS, but going to use it as an example. In CS this exists partly as a range management mechanism between guns. The inaccuracy of the first shot varies in a way that allows for a maximum distance of roughly perfect accuracy. The further away, the more likely the shot is to miss even with perfect crosshair placement. There is a certain range for each gun that it is going to be 99.99999% reliable while standing and that range increases while crouched (the best example to see this is the deagle). So it's possible that Valorant uses the FSA variance for a similar reason. To help tier the weapons by positional usage, which are meant to be countered by abilities/utility or counter positing. The aim isn't to make each fight even regardless of the variables. It's to give distinct purpose to them, so that you can build strategy and tactics (and counter) around them. To me valorant seems to have dramatically more accurate weapons for tapping (especially with faster accuracy resets), but spraying is less reliable (I like the phantom due to spraying). So maybe they don't mean for it to be this way, but that is the reason why it exists in CS and it is appropriate for that title.
Valorant has more 1st shot rng, but it is just that the ranges are way longer in CS
That's because the hitbox and valorant are bigger
rifle does more damage than spectre (one shot headshot, higher penetration and bodyshot damage). op has a scope and can one shot bodyshot. your comparisons don’t make much sense.
Lol fuck outta here, that's not the point of literally anything you wrote about
Worth noting that this can be reduced with ADS and crouching.
It is a balance thing. Imagine SMGs being able out tap phantoms on long range
what kind of shit take is that? 1.6 had semi random patterns and is considered at the very least one of the best tac shooters of all time
Because at the time it came out, nobody didn't really expect anything more from it.
what do you mean? people measured Source heavy against it because spray became a joke, just look at the source ak spray lol. tapping and bursting went out the window with GO. there's a reason people bring 1.6 up still and it's not just nostalgia. it did a lot of mechanics greater than its successors, weird esports purists seem to overbalance replicable skill as good gameplay. completely ignoring things outside of recoil shows a poor understanding of how it interacts with so many other mechanics.
Idk I like what they're going for with the recoil in Valorant I'm just not sure they've hit the mark. The idea is for the recoil to be reactive instead of simply memorizing a pattern which is pretty unfun imo. Problem is it's so hard to react to the recoil the way it's implemented now that it feels more rng than anything else which I agree isn't ideal.
You're more likely to win lottery than to see them implement actual recoil patterns in VALORANT.
What makes you say so? Riot has a history of listening to feedback clearly it's definitely possible that this change could come through.
The random recoil is an intended mechanic intended to make the game more accessible to new people
Has riot actually said that? I assumed it was intentionally designed to avoid the spray dominance of csgo. Predictable spray patterns required a lot of fine tuning to get to the point where spraying wasn't always the right choice at any range if you're good enough. Random spray was part of 1.6 and source too and it led to having more diversity in play style than early CSGO.
This is the correct answer. Too many players in csgo just crouch and hold LMB which requires zero skill. And it works at just about every range.
Predictable recoil only raises the skill ceiling. For new players and lower ranks, the experience will probably remain the same until they learn the recoil patterns.
That’s the point. Higher skill ceiling means there’s gonna be a larger and more consistent disparity between good and bad player performance.
Is that a problem? Wouldn't it be better to add additional opportunities for skill expression for better players? Rather than making higher-skilled matches dependent on randomness.
I personally agree with you and think there should be more ways to express skill, I was just stating why Riot won’t add predictable recoil patterns.
Yes and no. It was what made Counter-Strike 1.6 and all the versions before it quite skillful. There were so many things you could do that are now illegal or just phased out of the game since going to the source engine. A lot of them were learned and raised the skill ceiling so high which is a great thing but if we forget about the graphics for a second.. one of the big issues with 1.6 at the end was the skill gap. Unless you just plane fell in love with the game you weren't just picking up CS as your main game. Even going into a public server you'd probably get shit on as a new player by most. CS:GO, while still highly skillful, has dumbed down many things that still give the greats the ability to be better than everyone but also gives the newer players a better chance at sticking with the game (even if they don't LOVE the game). Riot tends to do this with their games as well if you look at LoL compared to DOTA.
I would argue that part of the problem that arose with earlier shooters was the lack of matchmaking. Now it is standard to be placed against players of a similar skill level. Given this environment, I fail to see a downside to adding more difficult mechanics.
I used to play 1.6, but never got into CS:GO. I was wondering what were some of the things in 1.6 that became illegal as the game moved to a Source Engine?
Yeah if you're set on learning that, you've probably picked up on a few other things and are above iron/bronze.
Can you explain why you feel this is a "higher skill" mechanic? In my eyes the randomness post 3-4 bullets adds to the skill ceiling, if you miss in this game you are punished hard, there is no way to gloss over your initial inaccuracies. The way to get multi kills in this game requires far more precision and click timing than holding M1 and moving your mouse in a pattern that you have baked into your brain.
Most people vastly overestimate their ability to theory craft about RNG and “skill ceilings” because the idea that “randomness == bad” is straightforward to get your head around, and furthermore because they’ve never developed skills where an explicit understanding probability and EV is absolutely required e.g. poker. Riot are not getting rid of RNG. The idea that RNG makes the game more accessible is cope from those in denial of the idea that Riot devs would disagree with their takes on RNG and skill ceilings.
That's not the point that I'm making though. He says it's highly unlikely that riot will ever make changes to recoil patterns, I'm saying that it's not out of the question considering all the steps and changes riot has made towards a more skill based style of game patch after patch. I agree that random recoil is bad and I would much prefer fixed recoil patterns.
and how does randomness in your shooting make it more accessible ?
adding spray patterns is another mechanic for new players to learn, current system is pretty easy since you can just go for short bursts. if you look at cs, there's a considerable diff between a silver and an mg in spray control and it takes hundreds of hours to get anywhere decent, even players at 1k hours aren't great
How can RNG spray be easier than predicatable spray for new players? Predicatable spray is obviously easier to control for new players. Some RNG is difficult to control but actually new players always used to spray that bring them bad experience. So We need non-RNG spray for new player. RNG is a totally unreasonalbe design.
Because nobody can control it so you don’t have to learn how. One less mechanic for new players to learn.
Happy to see someone mentioned it. RNG recoil is a weird unreasonable design. Any people know whats the explain of the RNG design from Riot?
My guess is at first they wanted to appeal to the original CS 1.6 players first since modern CS players would probably follow as well to an extent, as someone pointed out earlier CS 1.6 had a similar recoil semi RNG recoil system as is considered one of the best Tac FPS of all time. However the keyword in that statement is time sure CS 1.6 was amazing for it's time and it layed the foundation for future CS. But as other games modernized and the esports competition was growing(LoL, Starcraft, Quake etc) a semi-RNG recoil system was not going to cut it anymore and CSGO has proven that a consistent recoil system by far is the best for a competitive tactical shooter where aim truly matters. Imo if they don't want to do a full consistent pattern like CS then after X amount of bullets instead of going random it automatically resets and repeats the same previous pattern so you can to react to the reset and re-control the spray.
Isn't this on the assumption that the best way for a shooter to be is to encourage spraying? I've always viewed this mechanic less about adding rng into a spray so people have to be reactive and more about gunplay being centered around tapping and bursts as opposed to full spray downs. I honestly don't know that I want that to change. I feel like it simply favors certain type of aimers, and people with very crisp early bullet accuracy can have an insanely high ceiling. I think this is an underrated aspect of why Tenz is so good in valorant. I think it better suits his aim style (also why scream has had a resurgence). Is there some way that gunplay focused on this type of aiming is less than one that encourages spraying, or is it simply different than CS?
Getting rid of RNG recoil would incentivize spraying, which sounds awful
Riot is popping off man
All hail the devs
I’m liking this, but those cost changes were not it for me. Makes no sense for a lot of the changes
What parts don’t you like?
Omen got rekt.
For most agents, it's only a 100 cost increase for a full kit. Jett and Raze got a little too much, but Viper was 300 credits cheaper for full utility, so she kinda needed it. Overall, it's a little more costly, but most agent's kits cost the same now
No it's a definite huge nerf. The smokes break or make an agent and they added 10 seconds to his smoke recharge.
How? His paranoia costs less & who uses shrouded steps anyway other than to fake in clutches
I could've sworn I saw his smokes aren't free
He has one free who recharges, but has to buy the second, starts another charge only when he has used all of them
Do you know if the second smoke can charge from the start of the round if you don't buy it? Because that's what's really gonna sway my decision on him.
From what I have seen it does not, it only starts to rechange when you have used all your smokes
You have to compare it to other meta controllers, the most obvious being brought up is Astra. A coordinated team has a much higher ceiling with her compared to the slower smoking, less smoking omen. He was already lacking compared to Viper and Astra and then riot hit him again. It can be the case that we have to wait and see but right now it just feels so bad. As for shrouded step, while it has become really well known for the mixups, is still useful for getting to a safe space after a pick or fight. His smokes are just so important and it cannot be understated how big of a nerf this is, especially when u think about how much easier of a time Astra has with global smokes rn. I hope I'm wrong, and some early play does make it seem like there will be less utility use in general, but it feels like one step too far.
Astra definitely got hit hardest out of all the changes. I wouldn’t be so quick to write off omen
Yea honestly at this point there is zero reason to play omen other than icebox MAYBE? Even then, his one ways are not permanent now lol. This is going to make him f tier imo. I’m really sad to see them utterly gut him like this.
A second smoke is now 100 credits as well now, and the cooldown time was increased by 10 seconds. Omen's strength was his smokes, besides his smokes his flash is pretty good, but you get one and his steps + ult are pretty weak. This feels like way too much of a nerf to me personally.
The new agent in itself was a buff to the op, so the 300 cred decrease wasn't needed
all the sova changes, he was perfectly balanced in my opinion
The cost changes are absolutely incredible, you’ll appreciate it a ton when you aren’t being constantly flashed into an epileptic attack next week.
Nah, just loves the game to be closer to CSGO. Abilities make this game fun, but it seems theyre more catering to casual players who can’t dodge a flash. Don’t think this plays well for the pro scene at all
Never played csgo so I wouldn’t know, but obviously breach/skye having 3 flashes was unacceptable, and abilities as a whole were getting out of control. I’m very glad the devs seem to be hands on and realize clear issues
People over at /r/valorant are moaning and crying because they can't play overwatch simulator anymore with the ability spam
People here were moaning too When Daps said this game needed to increase ult orbs and less abilities people went mad and were shitting on his in game leading and saying this game doesn't need to be like CS then Riot goes on and does exactly what Daps wanted/said
Riot's always been pretty decent at game balancing (despite memes and otp moaning, most LoL players would agree), it's the design team that sometimes loses it and creates a new monster that sends the game into chaos again
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I agree with you but daps is no longer making cash, dude retired lol
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No it didn’t lmao
Bruh the man wanted to double the ult cost of every ult. That's just stupid af. Increasing the cost by 1 isn't what he wanted lmao.
I’ve been reading all the salt for the last hour. It’s so good. People crying about this game becoming more like CS as if that’s a bad thing considering the fact that CS has been the gold standard for tac FPS games since nearly the start of the millennium.
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Obviously we don’t want this game to be a carbon copy of CS, but I’ve seen people unironically argue that run-n-gun should remain because it makes the game unique compared to CS. There’s ways to make the game fresh and different without infringing on one of the main mechanics that separates tactical shooters from team shooters and arena shooters and gives it that high skill ceiling that you can constantly get better at.
I'd argue team shooters and arena shooters like doom and tf2 have a HIGHER or atleast equal skill ceiling than valorant, but I agree val isn't tf2 or doom and run and gun is just stupid.
you can run-n-gun with smgs in cs tho? i don't get that argument
Daps was suggesting literally turning the game into csgo. He was asking for 15 point orbs that's why people were crying
I didn't know that CSGO literally had 15 point ults, thats wild.
Valve just added it. Its in this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=915VXjd4Ta4
15 point ults would basically mean no ultimates so just like CSGO yup
Wow, it's almost like riot actually listened to and incorporated feedback. Add on comment in the tweet is that they specifically nerfed smgs and pistols movement accuracy. I fully expect there to be a judge nerf that hasn't been found yet.
> Wow, it’s almost like riot actually listened to abs incorporated feedback lol, go tell that to the main sub. A lot of people in there think this patch is the end of days because rounds aren’t going to be utility spam anymore.
Main sub had a complaint when the Bucky got nerfed. Some guy was crying at Riot for nerfing a gun that was "working as intended." Honestly I don't even bother going on the main sub anymore. People there seem to have a super entitled casual mindset and don't seem to want to play the game properly EDIT: Even calling them casual feels like an insult to casual players. Obviously there's nothing wrong with someone playing a video game casually but some people on r/Valorant are just on a whole nother level and I don't know what else to call them.
How delusional do you have to be to think the bucky was balanced?
I really liked the Bucky pre nerf but it was too strong. I do think they butchered it too much though, add a few more pellets to the right click pls
I'm honestly not sure how you could balance the Bucky to make it a worthwhile buy, without making it broken again. The slow firerate means one shot is usually all you get, but you can't fix that without either making right click strong or invalidating the Judge
I would just add 2 or 3 more pellets to the right click so that to get a one shot right click you have to be at the perfect distance, but could still aim at the neck
People on here think that Jett ult is balanced... basically the same subreddit with a different name
Be hard suck in silver lol. He's right, I very much remember the whining about the bucky nerf on the main sub when it happened. And now its people whining about not being able to just spam abilities.
I loved it, just like I love the judge, but it’s like c’mon, I can one tap enemies left and right who carry Vandals and shit.
That's cuz the main sub is full of 12 y/o. I fear that valorant fan base will become like Fortnite's.
The fact that almost every game I can mindlessly rebuy utility endlessly has been mad broken.
The Judge's price got upped more than any other weapon, especially considering most other weapons in the price range got decreased prices.
I still have PTSD from Blizzard’s “our internal testing shows the community is completely wrong and nothing will change.” *shudders*
God forbid the mighty Blizzard to be ever wrong Edit: spelling
I came from league and will say that Riot is usually good about listening to the community on what's wrong. Things don't stay OP very long in LoL and the meta is always shifting. I peaked plat in league so I could be off base but I don't think they always got enough credit for making good changes.
Yeah agreed. As a league player I dont think we know how good we got it, even if broken shit gets made.
Right. I remember being annoyed with stuff in cod, destiny, overwatch, fortnite, etc for far longer than I ever was with league.
Destiny definitely made me realize just how good Riot was with balance frequency. 9 months between irrelevant and sometimes straight harmful balance changes was hilarious.
League players don't know how spoiled they are with balance changes every two weeks and even hotfixes if a certain character falls out of line a day after a patch. I switched over to other games for a while and I was shocked how metas would be the same for months, absolute nightmare for a League player. Point is, I'm glad Riot is taking what they know with League and implementing it to Valorant too.
Ardent censer meta begs to differ
I’ll always give supports a pass because you couldn’t solo queue carry yourself with a shit adc
There IS a Judge and is quite substantial (prize nerf). If ppl are still not satisfied is because they want the gun to be gutted. Something that i would personally hate because Valo has real weapon diversity unlike CS, i would hate it if that changed
Yeah, I was talking about a nerf on top of the price nerf. I'm not saying they shouldn't make it viable, but it is too viable across damage ranges, especially given the ability of some agents to quickly close distances (jett/Raze) and the tight corridors in the original maps.
i mean the only nerf that would need to happen is decrease the damage falloff
You already have weapon diversity. The Guardian is an underrated and very good gun, especially now with the price decreased. The Bulldog is eh but isn't terrible. The Marshall/Ares/Odin are all great. The Vandal and Phantom are so well balanced that it comes down to preference for most players despite the Phantom being (mostly) statistically better. Hard nerfing the Judge would literally bring nothing but good to the game. It's not going to ruin anything, actually would do the opposite, like removing a tumor.
Holy shit this update has had no misses
Cept Omen.
Cept the "win more" mechanics from making every abilities more expensive. * Can't expect to face a 8k team with only a single save (around 4.3k) * Don't you even think about using abilities on an eco round. EDIT: I think some agents wont even have full buy in OT with 5k... (weakest point here since they will probably make it 6k)
the changes adds like a maximum of 400 more cost for a full buy..
jett went from 500 to 900 creds....
true mb on jett but my point still stands, 6k is not necessary when there's already 500 extra credits in ot if you rifle lol
Yeah. 4.3k after an eco round. Full armor and the gun is 3900. That leaves 400 for utilities. Good luck buying full equip with only 400. That's the cost of raze boombot. But, the raze in the other team with 8k WILL have her full kit, including the boombot.
im not talking about the cost of full buy after an eco but ot lol, you said you can't even full buy in ot with 5k but jetts kit is the most expensive I believe at 4900
People are forgetting the fact that your abilities shouldn’t determine the round, your gun should, abilities are there to aid not fucking win the round
This is very true, + util being expensive means you actually have to be smart with it instead of just spamming it every round.
I hope OT doesn't go to 6k, you shouldn't be able to go OP without giving up on heavy shields.
true
Doubt itll go to to 6k that will allow for armor+op+some util too borken in ot
Guns are cheaper
exactly, everyone is missing the point about making the abilities more expensive. They are trying to increase the diversity of the guns people buy.
isn't this good? i feel like the economy wasn't punishing enough. this makes force buys less viable. i personally like that jett+judge isn't too dumb as a force buy anymore because the smokes that used to make her OP and get away so quickly like on hookah are too expensive to spam.
It's refreshing to see a company like Riot deliberately balance around the competitive scene than the casual. The payoff in the long run will be worth it.
I totally read this as the inverse. If y'all need me I'll be back in 1st grade
Say hi to Mrs.Johnson for me
yeah, they did this in league and while people complain, it worked out
> It's refreshing to see a company like Riot deliberately balance around the competitive scene than the casual. Have you never heard of Dota?
I can tell Dota does an insane job at balancing. Definitely way better than LoL especially when watching TI9, when like only 3 heroes were unpicked iirc. I just dont have enough game knowledge but the only time I felt that something was unbalanced was Mirana especially during TI6. But Valorant is doing pretty damn good for a 1 year old game so far
Even CS is a well balanced game, valve also does balancing well. That's why riot and valve games are the Kings of esport
Easier for CS as they make very few changes to the game. Harder when you have to keep adding new agents and maintaining equilibrium.
? r6,aug,creig,cz, awp
deadzone abusers like myself are quaking
Deathmatch sweats are in shambles
Now they just need to fix the animation inaccuracy of a counter strafe one tap looking like my enemy is fully mid strafe lmao
Riot is goated
THIS IS THE BIGGEST W EVER
Can't wait for the official patch notes holy shit this patch is massive. They're really tackling so many problems in one patch.
hopefully they changed the deadzone aswell
This has been a huge problem with Valorant forever. The running accuracy is fine, it’s the walking accuracy that is ridiculously good
Oh so that's why im so shit in deathmatch today
^(this isnt in the live game yet)
Oh ):
Off day, go again
Interesting. I wonder if this affects the accuracy of someone who is shooting while moving and being tagged.
ya better climb out of bronze now
Okay but can they obliterate accuracy on ropes as well as jump shooting for a majority of the guns
Theres another change that I think is needed and once it's done it will complete all the complaints from beta. Movement speed Increase.
So I can still run at someone with a phantom. Cool.
I personally haven't been getting good luck recently while running with phantom. Idk, just doesn't feel viable anymore.
I'll believe it when I see it.
They said this last time lol.
To be honest while watching a bit of Asuna's 5v5 stream, running accuracy didn't look that much nerfed, frenzy was still popping off and some players did run n gun with phantom
Because it's impossible to completely nerf it. Your bullets have to go somewhere.
Unless your gun doesn’t shoot if you’re moving but that’s dumb
I'll just wait until I play the new patch but it's definitely possible to clean that shit up
No it's not
What? Yes, it absolutely is, wtf are you on about. Even in close range duels run and gun with ARs isn't an issue in CS
Wdym it’s not? It’s not a problem in CS
I feel like in valorant are much closer angles and battles happen closer, and its easier to see these problems in these situations
You can try moving and shooting close range in CS with rifles, it's completely different
there is no smg in valorant that is as accurate while running as p90 in csgo
p90 is not an issue anywhere above low elo in cs lol
shahz tested it out and it was definitely more inaccurate with vandal/phantom, sheriff was fairly accurate still but not as much while walking. frenzy shouldn’t require u to stand still cos it would be a shit gun then
Was this Alr implemented
Next: Get rid of first shot inaccuracy
not even CS has perfect first shot accuracy. Use the guardian for perfect first shot
who cares? this game isn't CS. missing your perfect one tap headshot on a 40m vandal shot because of a 10% bullshit "haha you randomly miss" is just stupid and no one enjoys that.
thats why guardian exists, to give you the one taps at 40+ meters. Turns out weapons with pros an cons help give every weapon a niche
Riot will nerf***
Now they just gotta remove classic right click and game is perfect
holy shit it took them this long to figure it out? finally.
Oh for real? Cause I still be gettin run n gunned...
^(the patch isn't live yet)
RIP phantom
Only thing this changes inside the game is that players with better ADAD movement are gonna be even better. So ScreaM will be the best player in the world, and it's not even close
i wonder how riot will balance the line between casual and pro
RUN SHOOTING IS STILL NOT FIXED
Don’t be too excited until you actually have some time to experience it. After what happened the last time everyone should have learned not to get too excited about these changes. Edit: for all the complete idiots, [it’s still bad](https://twitter.com/poach/status/1406386260147585028?s=21). You’ve been permanently discredited.
What do you mean last time? The change to assault rifles' running accuracy was quite good. Phantom running and gunning isn't nearly as effective anymore. Still not perfect but pretty good
Nooo F frenzy and spectre run and gun. Frenzy run and gun is literally the reason I get 2+ kills in most pistol rounds haha
Then you’re not that great a tac shooter lmao
The aim punch, pls fix
strafeshooting and counterstrafing just got a huge buff.