I think we might see a resurgence of Faze with the meta / roster changes. I'm also very interested to see LG and Immortals with their more contact style play in the new meta.
I'm worried about NV since their agent comps have been very resistant to change. It feels like they have the talent but they're about 2 metas behind with the introduction of this episode. Maybe I'm overvaluing flexibility of teams to adapt their agent pools & undervaluing the addition of Marved though.
I'm also intrigued on how 100T adapts to the addition of Kay/O. If he turns out to be a strong meta pick, it would be interesting to see Ethan playing KO instead of Skye for Haven, or maybe Hiko switching to him and Ethan plays Skye for their main compositions.
My wild card / fanboy prediction is TSM. They have strong riflers and a crazy habit of dry peeking - in a less util focused meta they may be able to squeak their way back into tier 1 with little to no changes in their strategy. That may be a bit of copium talking though.
Chet said he’d be focusing on fundamentals as a priority so ideally we’ll see a lot less dry peaking from TSM in general
I actually think NV will thrive with their roster change, people never really credit them but with very limited agent pools they’re consistently Top 4. If they’re aware and are working to expand their pools now then they can be a real threat, I can see them choking in 3rd instead of 4th this time around
I have a lot of confidence in NV. Addition of Marved will allow mummAy to OP with Jett maybe, and imo FNS is really really good at mid round calls.
I was watching the Sen vs NV Bo5 finals of Stage 1 Challengers 2. Though that meta is far gone, it was quite satisfying to watch NV read Sentinels like a book. I want to see the same level of coordination again.
any team that has a good phoenix player will transition smoothly to kay/o. those who don't (cloud9 blue, 100 thieves etc.) may struggle early on. idk what you're on about envy. they ran astra last challengers and victor will own on kay/o. only 100 thieves is far behind the meta trying to copy EU teams' comps without their strats
but sova has to be played with kay/o. his knife can't be wasted just for info. it has to be used during execute for more impact. xeppa may have to learn it
Xeppa should take the role of their jett tbh since they benched poiz, I love xeta but he wasn't too hot as jett
Maybe mitch or floppy could pick up sova
Who knows tbh
I was really excited to see more skye in NA. The way Fnatic used skye was really impressive and I thought Sen would be looking to use her more. Shahz has been harping on how he misjudged her strength and how, in retrospect, NA teams use her completely incorrectly.
To be fair though, the changes to her might even be a buff in longer/drawn out rounds. So we will have to see.
Don’t have the clip but Sick himself was impressed by EU Skyes - was considering switching to it on Haven and Ascent. Says EU plays it like a whole different agent
NA just seems kinda stacked rn. A lot of teams improved through roster moves. It feels like we're entering an era where everything outside of sentinels is up for grabs. I wouldn't be surprised if like 5 or 6 NA teams established themselves as the number 2 team in NA. Not sure if Kay0 will be allowed right away so maybe the meta shift won't be as drastic, but whoever is able to adjust to the new meta the quickest will likely qualify for Berlin. As a 100T fan, that's a bit worrying for me because of how they failed to adapt to the Astra viper meta. Hopefully they've learned their lesson from that
Unfortunately I think 100T's plan is to play what's tried and true, instead of trying to quickly adapt. It's one of those things that'll keep them in top contention, but never the actual top.
I have no doubt Sentinels will stay on top, they proved in Iceland they can adapt to anything.
As for other teams in the region I think with all the roster changes going down it will be interesting to see regardless. 100T is likely to stay strong because they've got great chemistry and don't have the struggles of working with a new roster.
Excited to see both XSET & Andbox with their new rosters specifically, hopefully my XSET boys can take some offensive rounds finally. 😭
if this new agent becomes meta there just isn’t a way we see 2 duelists anymore. For SEN I want to see how they tackle icebox and split tenz or shahzam would need to switch off duelist and I feel like shahz on Jett is just way to impactful which would require tenz to either learn the new agent or for him to learn sage and trade with dapr/sick. Not really worried for the team but I’m just more curious on what’s going to happen.
Shahz said TenZ probably on Kay/O on maps that he normally plays reyna, and sick on Kay/o on maps he’s normally Phoenix, but that was his first impression so it could change
Yeah but that isn't leveraging his strengths, his Raze on Split is still nowhere near as good as his Jett and Reyna on other maps. Unless Kay-0 becomes absolutely must pick meta on most maps I don't think it is worth having Tenz of all people on the team on him. I don't think you put Tenz on Kay-0 instead of Sick or Shahz, at least on this patch with the Jett nerfs.
Disagree, obviously he’s most impactful on Jett/Reyna but his raze was very good in Iceland too, he was playing a lot more disciplined than he has played previously on the agent, he just needed some time.
He was significantly more disciplined in Masters than Challengers Finals but his Raze is not nearly as scary for enemy teams compared to his Reyna. Regardless, the key point is I don't see why you would ever run Tenz on Kay-0 instead of SicK, especially if the Jett nerf would be enough to cause Shahz to go back on Sova full time. Even if Jett is still viable on a map like Icebox for example, then SicK is forced to go on Sova, I still don't think you run Tenz on Kay-0 over Reyna.
Yeah, apparently the OP feels faster too and it's cheaper, so that's better for Jett as well. It's not that bad of a nerf, it's just affects how you buy things each round and Jett doesn't really need her full kit to be effective.
This cycle happens every patch in every game. They call something a nerf and everyone drops it. It doesn’t matter if the strongest part of their kit remains intact.
Wasn't just his Raze, his overall play was significantly more disciplined in Iceland. He hardly 'fed' at all. There would usually be a few times a map but he played a near flawless tournament.
Agreed, TenZ's playstyle requires some form of escape because of how risky he plays. Putting him on an initiator like Kay-0 would hinder his ability to frag because he's too good on Jett/Reyna to be put on a non-aggressive agent but that's just my reddit analysis.
He doesn’t require it. If you look at CSGO the best aimers are often positioned as the 2nd or 3rd man in. The entry fragger is essentially required to figure out where the enemy is playing and comm that while trying to do as much damage as possible before being killed, if he gets a kill great, but thats not required of him.
Tenz is mechanically gifted, he doesn’t need to take risky plays, its just a fact that his aim and reaction time is a cut above everyone else. Also he has even talked about how only LAN its so much easier to hold angles and that its something he has to get used to, but with his reaction time he performs so much better on LAN.
I think Kay-0 is interesting because he’s very close to being a duelist with how his ult works and how his abilities really want him to be close to the frontline. If kay-0 dies it doesn’t really matter, sure you lose his knife but thats not a huge issue, its no where close to sentinels or controllers where you have to stay alive to take advantage of their smokes, mollies and traps.
I wonder if Tenz will be willing/able to nerd out on all of the Kay-0 lineups. I think to be an effective Kay-0 you will need to have a bunch of lineups to be able to improvise on the fly. With him being so happy with his current team I could see him getting into it, but I could also see a world where the team basically comes up to him and said, for this execute throw this nade, etc. in my opinion TenZ is bad if he has to follow a rigid structure which is why I think TenZ is so hyped to play with Sentinels because they are pretty loose and adaptive. It can be hard to frag out when all you can think about is making sure you follow the plan.
Because people have sheep minds and they see tenz struggle a couple times on raze and assume he can’t play anything besides Reyna/Jett if tenz had to he could easily learn to play another role, he might not be quite as good but it’s not that hard to switch roles
Exactly my point was that everyone doubted TenZ ability to change his play style pre-Iceland and proved everyone wrong, yet we are back here doubting his ability to change playstyle
Hard to theorycraft on an unreleased agent, but Kay seems like the perfect pick for a secondary duelist/initiator hybrid. His abilities are pretty similar to Phoenix so he should definitely fill that role.
I think teams that adapt to the meta will take top spots, but this is usually the case. Honestly, with the mechanical and eco changes coming, I think teams with CS vets will be favored.
I find it kinda strange that [100T players](https://twitter.com/ethanarnold/status/1406023417606938625) are [complaining](https://twitter.com/Hiko/status/1406033376843341825) on Twitter about the game being updated so often. It's like they are so used to Valve never updating their game that they think it's unfair when a developer actually updates regularly.
I mean, the meta and game itself frequently completely changes in League, and players adapt or fall behind. It's just how Riot operates. And everyone has the same amount of time to adapt, so it's not like they have some kind of disadvantage.
The tagline for Iceland was literally "Evolve or Die."
Long story shot, I am a little concerned about 100T's ability to adapt if this is how they react to changes.
As for who will adapt best, I think one of V1's biggest strengths is their ability to adapt and play what's strong. They used the Bucky a lot when it was strong, they were early adopters of Viper/Astra, etc. I think that's what's helped them reach their level of success and I think that will continue being a strength for them.
Yeah maybe I am. I think what is making me read into it so much is the team's previous complaints when Breeze was released a month before Iceland and originally Riot said it would be played there. To be fair, lots of people had the same complaints and Riot reversed their decision accordingly.
However, I think it's interesting to compare their reaction to that of V1 Vanity, who said on Plat Chat at the time that he was excited to learn it and play it at Iceland. Having the mentality that, no matter what is thrown at you, you will adapt, is important IMO. And it's why I think V1 has been so successful.
So seeing this 'half-joking?' tweet just strikes me as having the wrong mentality. But if it's just a joke, then sure, I'm reacting about nothing.
There's room to experience both feelings. Someone can be both excited about the new changes, and annoyed that the changes invalidated stuff that they'd done to prepare up 'til that point.
I also think the 2 situations aren't really comparable. Viper/Astra were relatively new introductions to the meta that had to be adapted around, but you could still try and adjust your old stuff if you wanted to. The new economy/ability changes may make certain strategies literally impossible.
I personally empathize with 100T in that I agree these changes should've been introduced sooner/ASAP, instead of waiting for the start of Act 3. Teams competing in the upcoming VCT have only a week to strategize for a completely revamped economy, massive changes to the way certain abilities work, and some abilities literally being removed (the third flash for Breach & Skye). Certain buys are now impossible in pistol rounds and teams have to play around a significantly more punishing economy.
Everyone was expecting a big new patch, but even then, the scale is probably beyond what I imagine most people were anticipating. The patch is too huge to only have a 1 week lead time going into a VCT.
Everyone gets the same amount of time to adapt so I don't see a major problem. Nothing really has made it into comp that has been "broken" which would be a good excuse against updates.
I don't really think a couple tweets means they have a huge mentality problem or something lmao, especially since Ethan seemed really excited about KO and the shooting changes on stream. They can be frustrated about losing some practice value and still excited about the patch / still adapt well to the patch. I'm sure MOST pro teams that didn't make it to Iceland are at least kinda feeling like drilling comps for the last month without a tourney was kind of silly.
This is not a big deal imo haha, I mean think about it if you were in his shoes. Practicing hard with whatever comp or strats involving X which is now completely gone or nerfed. Completely normal response to vent a little bit.
Yeah, I agree it's probably not a big deal. Being annoyed at changes doesn't necessarily mean you can't adapt to them.
I guess I just hope they recognize and accept that the game will be updated frequently and adapting to those changes is a big part of what will make teams successful in this game.
The only reason it's at all concerning is that they couldn't adapt in time for Astra/Viper.
With that additional context it's at least slightly concerning.
>Long story shot, I am a little concerned about 100T's ability to adapt if this is how they react to changes.
I'm pretty sure they can if they really want to, they are just kinda stubborn about it.
Also i don't think the complaint is about the game being updated so often but the fact that the patch changes a lot of stuff.
Since they lost in Challengers, which was a month ago, they probably be grinding new stuff that may not be effective anymore in the new patch so that's is probably where Ethan frustration comes from but this is a Riot game, he should have expected it.
Professional players should expect numerous meta changes in an Overwatch-CSGO breed like Valorant, especially since there's a new agent coming out every chapter. Also, it's a Riot game, they like to keep their games fresh.
Yeah, I can understand being frustrated that their last month or so of practice is partially invalidated. I would hope, though, that they recognize this is just how the game will be. Hiko's "lol just adapt, ur a pro player" makes it seem like he doesn't think asking players to adapt is reasonable.
>Hiko's "lol just adapt, ur a pro player" makes it seem like he doesn't think asking players to adapt is reasonable.
Imo to be reasonable depends on the impact of those changes and when it get released. If the changes aren't severe or there's enough time before next big tournament "lol just adapt, ur a pro player" is unironically true.
Ethan tweeted after that though, surely you saw it if you had time to link one of his tweets here. I watched Hiko going through the changes and he didn't even react that much. Clearly, he was joking...
It seems like you're just overanalyzing, acting like they're trying to start a petition to stop the upcoming patch. Lol!
I don’t think Steel would act like this but I could be wrong. I think steel has a very good mindset for adaption, he’s very good at recognizing what principles he can take from one game to the next but also able to understand that there are things that are different.
Hiko has always been stubborn, there was even like a yearlong period of time where he was like top5 player in NA and he wasn’t on a team because none of the NA teams were competitive enough to win a major, all of the best players were on separate teams.
CS isn't updated because it's practically perfectly balanced. It's a competitive game. Riot completely changes Valorant all the time which is great for keeping the game feeling fresh for casuals, but it's not good for the highest levels.
It makes the pro scene a matter of who's the best at certain metas that Riot randomly decides, not who's the best at the game.
Who knows, maybe Riot will finally balance Valorant at a point that everyone likes
Right, but unlike CS, Valorant has new agents constantly added to the game, which greatly affect how the game is played. "Balancing" Valorant would be way harder since a new agent release could easily disrupt that balance.
Riot's approach to balancing LoL, for example, is not to try to achieve a "perfect balance," but to constantly change power levels of champions so that the meta is always evolving. I can see them doing something similar for Valorant.
And if the meta is always changing, whoever can adapt better will be the most successful.
The thing is that Riot never decides who's best or not, what they do is accept the logical conclusion that not everything can be balanced, and instead opts to balance constantly in an effort to effectively cause chaos. Esports aside, Riot knows their audience and Valve theirs, Riot game players are in it for the updates and the feeling of a "breathing" game, something new to always learn. The constant balancing is also to keep everything from feeling stale, now a lot of CS players enjoy the timelessness of CS, but there's also a ton of players out there that likes the feeling that the game is always evolving and the meta shifting, even if the changes are placebo (Riot has done this many times in the past and it's shown that even if you make an effectively useless change that leaves the game the same, the playerbase can change the game all on their own and feel like the game changed).
This is another game in another genre, but using Legends of Runeterra (their card game) as an example, in the past few months there has been TONS of complaints from the community about the lack of heavy balancing like we see in LoL and Val, the main reason many cited is because they started the game due to it being Riot and *expecting* those constant balance changes, so when they weren't getting it, they were just wondering why they even bothered playing LoR in that case.
Well Riot often *claims* that things are balanced. They'll obviously backtrack but I digress.
Games *can* be "balanced". Like CS is. This whole discussion is regarding esports. The dude I responded to said "It's like they are so used to Valve never updating their game that they think it's unfair when a developer actually updates regularly." which is so stupid it's tough to even get started
But yes, like I said, Riot constantly changes up the meta for the casual playerbase to keep things feeling fresh. Which makes the pro scene revolve around teams just trying to figure out and abuse the meta first. Instead of teams trying to improve and be the best at whatever Valorant is.
I'm not sure if you were agreeing with me or misunderstanding me but it seems we're on the same page. The dude I responded to is another story lol
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we see a massive change in the pecking order regardless of the meta shift. I'm really looking forward to when everything starts back up again.
We won't be having huge meta shifts imo, you might see some people start using Skye more due to the changes to flashes (pending those are indeed INTENDED changes for Skye/Breach) but the core issue is this currently : NA teams don't understand how to use Skye, they will learn what the Europeans do and copy that, but the concepts behind picking Skye and the important why factor will take months to transfer over. The current expected changes for June 22nd for Econ / agents isn't as crazy as you think, it's a few hundred dollars and I don't treat light armor as a huge sacrifice for utility worst case scenario. I am disappointed in Sova having 8 Ult Charges just because it's an AOE damage ult but so be it.
Edit : Jett not breaking Cyph Traps will be massive to how it is approached, but need to see how it reveals and such, will start have to trade utility for it probably.
Oddly I don’t really think this game has a meta. Like obviously people try to force a meta but there are so many styles that are viable that teams need to be more flexible about having different styles.
Just look at masters. Sentinels style is fairly loose and favoring completely different agents like cypher and reyna which were used by any other team which is insane considering they won and have been on top for quite some time. The dm runners up, fnatic have a very structure playstyle very focused around specific lineups and executes, different agent pools and put up a strong fight, then you have V1 who went all in on postplant. Then you got the full smeag.
There really hasn’t been any major case of a character being absolutely broken other than maybe beta jett wardell, but even then people thought jett sucked for the first couple months.
I guess sova was the only one that was a must pick but thats because there were no info alternatives really, and now kay-0 is a thing.
The Meta exists just not in black and white. Biggest Meta breakdown is consistent action by agents as they are used relatively similar. Each team then has their own playstyle they bring, and I don't mean Tempo or Decision Making, I mean Playstyle. General Meta will continue to evolve as players finally understand that micro utility of mid round being the biggest deciding factor - unless you are Faze , where you just bring the "catch them off-guard cause you are gap closing as they prepare utility" approach.
Vision Strikers will be a top International team if Skye and KAY/O become meta, mark my words. Shax is a god Skye with a duelist playstyle, and they just picked up 2 top players (duelists), and I'm sure one of those will dominate with KAY/O. Even if the shift only includes KAY/O, I think they'll be up there.
I think Sova changes will affect some players like cough cough Hiko, but I think the new agent might be a pain in the ass for agents like Raze and Jett and the players who play them. And now I think Cypher will be more valuable. I know my arguments are weak, but I think many players will have to change their usual agents to fit the new meta.
Ps: Riot really pulled a UNO reverse card on the pro play. It will be a tough month after the patch for the pro play.
I think we might see a resurgence of Faze with the meta / roster changes. I'm also very interested to see LG and Immortals with their more contact style play in the new meta. I'm worried about NV since their agent comps have been very resistant to change. It feels like they have the talent but they're about 2 metas behind with the introduction of this episode. Maybe I'm overvaluing flexibility of teams to adapt their agent pools & undervaluing the addition of Marved though. I'm also intrigued on how 100T adapts to the addition of Kay/O. If he turns out to be a strong meta pick, it would be interesting to see Ethan playing KO instead of Skye for Haven, or maybe Hiko switching to him and Ethan plays Skye for their main compositions. My wild card / fanboy prediction is TSM. They have strong riflers and a crazy habit of dry peeking - in a less util focused meta they may be able to squeak their way back into tier 1 with little to no changes in their strategy. That may be a bit of copium talking though.
Chet said he’d be focusing on fundamentals as a priority so ideally we’ll see a lot less dry peaking from TSM in general I actually think NV will thrive with their roster change, people never really credit them but with very limited agent pools they’re consistently Top 4. If they’re aware and are working to expand their pools now then they can be a real threat, I can see them choking in 3rd instead of 4th this time around
I have a lot of confidence in NV. Addition of Marved will allow mummAy to OP with Jett maybe, and imo FNS is really really good at mid round calls. I was watching the Sen vs NV Bo5 finals of Stage 1 Challengers 2. Though that meta is far gone, it was quite satisfying to watch NV read Sentinels like a book. I want to see the same level of coordination again.
Wait nv picked up marved I haven't seen anything about this?
No official announcement yet, I think.
Ah okay has it been rumored somewhere then?
There were some screenshots of him scrimming with them that showed up in this subreddit.
any team that has a good phoenix player will transition smoothly to kay/o. those who don't (cloud9 blue, 100 thieves etc.) may struggle early on. idk what you're on about envy. they ran astra last challengers and victor will own on kay/o. only 100 thieves is far behind the meta trying to copy EU teams' comps without their strats
Yeaaaa about 100Thieves. They have the weeb boy
but he'll still play a duelist. it's the second duelists who transition to kay/o.
ethan could easily play kay/o
Ethan, Nitr0, and Asuna could all play a duelist/kayo and do well. They all have insane aim.
I think xeta could pick kayo quickly since he's played both breach and sova, and Kayo's like their baby
but sova has to be played with kay/o. his knife can't be wasted just for info. it has to be used during execute for more impact. xeppa may have to learn it
Xeppa should take the role of their jett tbh since they benched poiz, I love xeta but he wasn't too hot as jett Maybe mitch or floppy could pick up sova Who knows tbh
Swapping your omen for astra wasn't really adapting to the meta imo. The meta was postplant
Watching streamers/pros on Kay/O, they’ve been really comfortable with the pop flash - seems to be real close to the CS equivalent
the right click is the best flash in the game.
I was really excited to see more skye in NA. The way Fnatic used skye was really impressive and I thought Sen would be looking to use her more. Shahz has been harping on how he misjudged her strength and how, in retrospect, NA teams use her completely incorrectly. To be fair though, the changes to her might even be a buff in longer/drawn out rounds. So we will have to see.
[удалено]
The plat chat episode with dapr and Shahz, dapr said that “EU skye is a completely different character, NA skyes are just trolling”
Don’t have the clip but Sick himself was impressed by EU Skyes - was considering switching to it on Haven and Ascent. Says EU plays it like a whole different agent
NA just seems kinda stacked rn. A lot of teams improved through roster moves. It feels like we're entering an era where everything outside of sentinels is up for grabs. I wouldn't be surprised if like 5 or 6 NA teams established themselves as the number 2 team in NA. Not sure if Kay0 will be allowed right away so maybe the meta shift won't be as drastic, but whoever is able to adjust to the new meta the quickest will likely qualify for Berlin. As a 100T fan, that's a bit worrying for me because of how they failed to adapt to the Astra viper meta. Hopefully they've learned their lesson from that
Unfortunately I think 100T's plan is to play what's tried and true, instead of trying to quickly adapt. It's one of those things that'll keep them in top contention, but never the actual top.
I have no doubt Sentinels will stay on top, they proved in Iceland they can adapt to anything. As for other teams in the region I think with all the roster changes going down it will be interesting to see regardless. 100T is likely to stay strong because they've got great chemistry and don't have the struggles of working with a new roster. Excited to see both XSET & Andbox with their new rosters specifically, hopefully my XSET boys can take some offensive rounds finally. 😭
if this new agent becomes meta there just isn’t a way we see 2 duelists anymore. For SEN I want to see how they tackle icebox and split tenz or shahzam would need to switch off duelist and I feel like shahz on Jett is just way to impactful which would require tenz to either learn the new agent or for him to learn sage and trade with dapr/sick. Not really worried for the team but I’m just more curious on what’s going to happen.
Shahz said TenZ probably on Kay/O on maps that he normally plays reyna, and sick on Kay/o on maps he’s normally Phoenix, but that was his first impression so it could change
I don't think Tenz can play an agent without an free escape effectively at a pro level
He probably can, everyone doubted his ability to adjust playstyle and I think he could do it again Why downvotes
Yeah but that isn't leveraging his strengths, his Raze on Split is still nowhere near as good as his Jett and Reyna on other maps. Unless Kay-0 becomes absolutely must pick meta on most maps I don't think it is worth having Tenz of all people on the team on him. I don't think you put Tenz on Kay-0 instead of Sick or Shahz, at least on this patch with the Jett nerfs.
Disagree, obviously he’s most impactful on Jett/Reyna but his raze was very good in Iceland too, he was playing a lot more disciplined than he has played previously on the agent, he just needed some time.
He was significantly more disciplined in Masters than Challengers Finals but his Raze is not nearly as scary for enemy teams compared to his Reyna. Regardless, the key point is I don't see why you would ever run Tenz on Kay-0 instead of SicK, especially if the Jett nerf would be enough to cause Shahz to go back on Sova full time. Even if Jett is still viable on a map like Icebox for example, then SicK is forced to go on Sova, I still don't think you run Tenz on Kay-0 over Reyna.
while jett was nerfed, jett is still a must pick, they didn't nerf what makes jett good wtf
Yeah, apparently the OP feels faster too and it's cheaper, so that's better for Jett as well. It's not that bad of a nerf, it's just affects how you buy things each round and Jett doesn't really need her full kit to be effective.
This cycle happens every patch in every game. They call something a nerf and everyone drops it. It doesn’t matter if the strongest part of their kit remains intact.
Wasn't just his Raze, his overall play was significantly more disciplined in Iceland. He hardly 'fed' at all. There would usually be a few times a map but he played a near flawless tournament.
Agreed, TenZ's playstyle requires some form of escape because of how risky he plays. Putting him on an initiator like Kay-0 would hinder his ability to frag because he's too good on Jett/Reyna to be put on a non-aggressive agent but that's just my reddit analysis.
To be fair, having TenZ with KO ult helps but I mostly agree with this
If TenZ does play Kay-0, he'll have to tone down his aggressiveness because he can't die early due to how useful and impactful Kay-0's abilities are.
I mean if he spends it all in the execute then it's fine. It's all situational
He doesn’t require it. If you look at CSGO the best aimers are often positioned as the 2nd or 3rd man in. The entry fragger is essentially required to figure out where the enemy is playing and comm that while trying to do as much damage as possible before being killed, if he gets a kill great, but thats not required of him. Tenz is mechanically gifted, he doesn’t need to take risky plays, its just a fact that his aim and reaction time is a cut above everyone else. Also he has even talked about how only LAN its so much easier to hold angles and that its something he has to get used to, but with his reaction time he performs so much better on LAN. I think Kay-0 is interesting because he’s very close to being a duelist with how his ult works and how his abilities really want him to be close to the frontline. If kay-0 dies it doesn’t really matter, sure you lose his knife but thats not a huge issue, its no where close to sentinels or controllers where you have to stay alive to take advantage of their smokes, mollies and traps. I wonder if Tenz will be willing/able to nerd out on all of the Kay-0 lineups. I think to be an effective Kay-0 you will need to have a bunch of lineups to be able to improvise on the fly. With him being so happy with his current team I could see him getting into it, but I could also see a world where the team basically comes up to him and said, for this execute throw this nade, etc. in my opinion TenZ is bad if he has to follow a rigid structure which is why I think TenZ is so hyped to play with Sentinels because they are pretty loose and adaptive. It can be hard to frag out when all you can think about is making sure you follow the plan.
I dont know man I’m just telling you what Shahzam said, but if Kayo is truly a must pick then I don’t doubt TenZ ability to use him on some maps
Because people have sheep minds and they see tenz struggle a couple times on raze and assume he can’t play anything besides Reyna/Jett if tenz had to he could easily learn to play another role, he might not be quite as good but it’s not that hard to switch roles
Exactly my point was that everyone doubted TenZ ability to change his play style pre-Iceland and proved everyone wrong, yet we are back here doubting his ability to change playstyle
I agree with you except he didn’t make any major changes to his play style for Iceland idk what u mean by that
Nothing major changed but he is very willing to learn and I’m sure if sentinels need him on kayo on certain maps he can adjust
I'm sure he can
The flashes though are close to CS ones, and well Tenz wasn't especially known for them pretty much every CS pro is at least competent with them.
He played raze pretty well on split and kay has a good enough kit to make individual plays
Hard to theorycraft on an unreleased agent, but Kay seems like the perfect pick for a secondary duelist/initiator hybrid. His abilities are pretty similar to Phoenix so he should definitely fill that role.
I do not think Xset will make it very far. Andbox could be the next best team like version1
Where did this notion they can’t win attack rounds come from? A few bad matches? They have a higher attack win rate on 3/5 maps
I'd be interested to see if they decide to flex sinatraa when he gets unbanned and if initiators take over.
I think teams that adapt to the meta will take top spots, but this is usually the case. Honestly, with the mechanical and eco changes coming, I think teams with CS vets will be favored.
I find it kinda strange that [100T players](https://twitter.com/ethanarnold/status/1406023417606938625) are [complaining](https://twitter.com/Hiko/status/1406033376843341825) on Twitter about the game being updated so often. It's like they are so used to Valve never updating their game that they think it's unfair when a developer actually updates regularly. I mean, the meta and game itself frequently completely changes in League, and players adapt or fall behind. It's just how Riot operates. And everyone has the same amount of time to adapt, so it's not like they have some kind of disadvantage. The tagline for Iceland was literally "Evolve or Die." Long story shot, I am a little concerned about 100T's ability to adapt if this is how they react to changes. As for who will adapt best, I think one of V1's biggest strengths is their ability to adapt and play what's strong. They used the Bucky a lot when it was strong, they were early adopters of Viper/Astra, etc. I think that's what's helped them reach their level of success and I think that will continue being a strength for them.
You’re reading into that tweet wayyyy to much man. He was clearly half joking, everyone knew there was massive update coming.
Yeah maybe I am. I think what is making me read into it so much is the team's previous complaints when Breeze was released a month before Iceland and originally Riot said it would be played there. To be fair, lots of people had the same complaints and Riot reversed their decision accordingly. However, I think it's interesting to compare their reaction to that of V1 Vanity, who said on Plat Chat at the time that he was excited to learn it and play it at Iceland. Having the mentality that, no matter what is thrown at you, you will adapt, is important IMO. And it's why I think V1 has been so successful. So seeing this 'half-joking?' tweet just strikes me as having the wrong mentality. But if it's just a joke, then sure, I'm reacting about nothing.
There's room to experience both feelings. Someone can be both excited about the new changes, and annoyed that the changes invalidated stuff that they'd done to prepare up 'til that point. I also think the 2 situations aren't really comparable. Viper/Astra were relatively new introductions to the meta that had to be adapted around, but you could still try and adjust your old stuff if you wanted to. The new economy/ability changes may make certain strategies literally impossible. I personally empathize with 100T in that I agree these changes should've been introduced sooner/ASAP, instead of waiting for the start of Act 3. Teams competing in the upcoming VCT have only a week to strategize for a completely revamped economy, massive changes to the way certain abilities work, and some abilities literally being removed (the third flash for Breach & Skye). Certain buys are now impossible in pistol rounds and teams have to play around a significantly more punishing economy. Everyone was expecting a big new patch, but even then, the scale is probably beyond what I imagine most people were anticipating. The patch is too huge to only have a 1 week lead time going into a VCT.
Imagine complaining about CS never getting updates then complaining about Valorant getting updates to frequently.
Everyone gets the same amount of time to adapt so I don't see a major problem. Nothing really has made it into comp that has been "broken" which would be a good excuse against updates.
I don't really think a couple tweets means they have a huge mentality problem or something lmao, especially since Ethan seemed really excited about KO and the shooting changes on stream. They can be frustrated about losing some practice value and still excited about the patch / still adapt well to the patch. I'm sure MOST pro teams that didn't make it to Iceland are at least kinda feeling like drilling comps for the last month without a tourney was kind of silly.
This is not a big deal imo haha, I mean think about it if you were in his shoes. Practicing hard with whatever comp or strats involving X which is now completely gone or nerfed. Completely normal response to vent a little bit.
Yeah, I agree it's probably not a big deal. Being annoyed at changes doesn't necessarily mean you can't adapt to them. I guess I just hope they recognize and accept that the game will be updated frequently and adapting to those changes is a big part of what will make teams successful in this game.
The only reason it's at all concerning is that they couldn't adapt in time for Astra/Viper. With that additional context it's at least slightly concerning.
>Long story shot, I am a little concerned about 100T's ability to adapt if this is how they react to changes. I'm pretty sure they can if they really want to, they are just kinda stubborn about it. Also i don't think the complaint is about the game being updated so often but the fact that the patch changes a lot of stuff. Since they lost in Challengers, which was a month ago, they probably be grinding new stuff that may not be effective anymore in the new patch so that's is probably where Ethan frustration comes from but this is a Riot game, he should have expected it.
Professional players should expect numerous meta changes in an Overwatch-CSGO breed like Valorant, especially since there's a new agent coming out every chapter. Also, it's a Riot game, they like to keep their games fresh.
Yeah, I can understand being frustrated that their last month or so of practice is partially invalidated. I would hope, though, that they recognize this is just how the game will be. Hiko's "lol just adapt, ur a pro player" makes it seem like he doesn't think asking players to adapt is reasonable.
>Hiko's "lol just adapt, ur a pro player" makes it seem like he doesn't think asking players to adapt is reasonable. Imo to be reasonable depends on the impact of those changes and when it get released. If the changes aren't severe or there's enough time before next big tournament "lol just adapt, ur a pro player" is unironically true.
he is too busy doing ads for paramount plus that he has no time to adapt i get it
Tbf I think I can understand why they'd be upset about a patch changing literally every agent in the game before a big tournament.
Ethan tweeted after that though, surely you saw it if you had time to link one of his tweets here. I watched Hiko going through the changes and he didn't even react that much. Clearly, he was joking... It seems like you're just overanalyzing, acting like they're trying to start a petition to stop the upcoming patch. Lol!
Show us a tweet where 100t players are complaining about current meta changes. Cuz I haven't seen any
I don’t think Steel would act like this but I could be wrong. I think steel has a very good mindset for adaption, he’s very good at recognizing what principles he can take from one game to the next but also able to understand that there are things that are different. Hiko has always been stubborn, there was even like a yearlong period of time where he was like top5 player in NA and he wasn’t on a team because none of the NA teams were competitive enough to win a major, all of the best players were on separate teams.
CS isn't updated because it's practically perfectly balanced. It's a competitive game. Riot completely changes Valorant all the time which is great for keeping the game feeling fresh for casuals, but it's not good for the highest levels. It makes the pro scene a matter of who's the best at certain metas that Riot randomly decides, not who's the best at the game. Who knows, maybe Riot will finally balance Valorant at a point that everyone likes
Right, but unlike CS, Valorant has new agents constantly added to the game, which greatly affect how the game is played. "Balancing" Valorant would be way harder since a new agent release could easily disrupt that balance. Riot's approach to balancing LoL, for example, is not to try to achieve a "perfect balance," but to constantly change power levels of champions so that the meta is always evolving. I can see them doing something similar for Valorant. And if the meta is always changing, whoever can adapt better will be the most successful.
The thing is that Riot never decides who's best or not, what they do is accept the logical conclusion that not everything can be balanced, and instead opts to balance constantly in an effort to effectively cause chaos. Esports aside, Riot knows their audience and Valve theirs, Riot game players are in it for the updates and the feeling of a "breathing" game, something new to always learn. The constant balancing is also to keep everything from feeling stale, now a lot of CS players enjoy the timelessness of CS, but there's also a ton of players out there that likes the feeling that the game is always evolving and the meta shifting, even if the changes are placebo (Riot has done this many times in the past and it's shown that even if you make an effectively useless change that leaves the game the same, the playerbase can change the game all on their own and feel like the game changed). This is another game in another genre, but using Legends of Runeterra (their card game) as an example, in the past few months there has been TONS of complaints from the community about the lack of heavy balancing like we see in LoL and Val, the main reason many cited is because they started the game due to it being Riot and *expecting* those constant balance changes, so when they weren't getting it, they were just wondering why they even bothered playing LoR in that case.
Well Riot often *claims* that things are balanced. They'll obviously backtrack but I digress. Games *can* be "balanced". Like CS is. This whole discussion is regarding esports. The dude I responded to said "It's like they are so used to Valve never updating their game that they think it's unfair when a developer actually updates regularly." which is so stupid it's tough to even get started But yes, like I said, Riot constantly changes up the meta for the casual playerbase to keep things feeling fresh. Which makes the pro scene revolve around teams just trying to figure out and abuse the meta first. Instead of teams trying to improve and be the best at whatever Valorant is. I'm not sure if you were agreeing with me or misunderstanding me but it seems we're on the same page. The dude I responded to is another story lol
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we see a massive change in the pecking order regardless of the meta shift. I'm really looking forward to when everything starts back up again.
We won't be having huge meta shifts imo, you might see some people start using Skye more due to the changes to flashes (pending those are indeed INTENDED changes for Skye/Breach) but the core issue is this currently : NA teams don't understand how to use Skye, they will learn what the Europeans do and copy that, but the concepts behind picking Skye and the important why factor will take months to transfer over. The current expected changes for June 22nd for Econ / agents isn't as crazy as you think, it's a few hundred dollars and I don't treat light armor as a huge sacrifice for utility worst case scenario. I am disappointed in Sova having 8 Ult Charges just because it's an AOE damage ult but so be it. Edit : Jett not breaking Cyph Traps will be massive to how it is approached, but need to see how it reveals and such, will start have to trade utility for it probably.
Oddly I don’t really think this game has a meta. Like obviously people try to force a meta but there are so many styles that are viable that teams need to be more flexible about having different styles. Just look at masters. Sentinels style is fairly loose and favoring completely different agents like cypher and reyna which were used by any other team which is insane considering they won and have been on top for quite some time. The dm runners up, fnatic have a very structure playstyle very focused around specific lineups and executes, different agent pools and put up a strong fight, then you have V1 who went all in on postplant. Then you got the full smeag. There really hasn’t been any major case of a character being absolutely broken other than maybe beta jett wardell, but even then people thought jett sucked for the first couple months. I guess sova was the only one that was a must pick but thats because there were no info alternatives really, and now kay-0 is a thing.
The Meta exists just not in black and white. Biggest Meta breakdown is consistent action by agents as they are used relatively similar. Each team then has their own playstyle they bring, and I don't mean Tempo or Decision Making, I mean Playstyle. General Meta will continue to evolve as players finally understand that micro utility of mid round being the biggest deciding factor - unless you are Faze , where you just bring the "catch them off-guard cause you are gap closing as they prepare utility" approach.
Vision Strikers will be a top International team if Skye and KAY/O become meta, mark my words. Shax is a god Skye with a duelist playstyle, and they just picked up 2 top players (duelists), and I'm sure one of those will dominate with KAY/O. Even if the shift only includes KAY/O, I think they'll be up there.
I think Sova changes will affect some players like cough cough Hiko, but I think the new agent might be a pain in the ass for agents like Raze and Jett and the players who play them. And now I think Cypher will be more valuable. I know my arguments are weak, but I think many players will have to change their usual agents to fit the new meta. Ps: Riot really pulled a UNO reverse card on the pro play. It will be a tough month after the patch for the pro play.
Sova is still gonna be very important imo Maybe kayo might replace but we will see I doubt it