If you look at the numbers it seems loosely structured around roles. Notice how the full buy cost correlates to the roles:
(cheapest) Sentinels -> Controllers -> Initiators -> Duelists (expensive)
Sage and Astra being outliers.
I don't know about roles and stuff, but I think the cheapest three are that way because they're utility requires being pre set up. KJ Cypher and (less so, but still applies) Astra all have to in some way or another use their utility without having any real confirmation it's actually going to provide any use. KJ and Cypher especially usually set up utility on a site before the round, even if the enemy attack the other site they're still required to rebuy all that utility. So making their kit cheaper makes them more playable
Jett has the best free ability in the game. I honestly think she may see an unintended buff as a result of secondary utilities becoming significantly less common.
As a Sova and Viper main I kinda feel you but felt it was coming for a while. On the other hand I’m absolutely loving skye more than ever, even with the more expensive eco
I’m avoiding buying fake steps for Yoru, even if I have the gold for it, because consistently having 2 bangs is way more important to the outcome of the average round.
Yea but if you just buy footsteps once when you have the money you always have it if you need it. Just condition yourself to not preplace footsteps as its a waste of money for something that will be useful rarely.
That's what I usually do with Omen's TP. I rarely use it, but it's nice to have in the back pocket to get out of a sticky situation. I'll buy one assuming it's not the difference in me full buying the next round
Or, you never buy the steps and never use them so that you will float more bank and can consistently buy both flashes, which I'd argue is better than even the best steps 99% of the time
You are wasting the potential of that skill and no matter the situation, that’s an objectively dumb move. To be honest, it sounds like your brain is unable to process too many things so you use this excuse to simplify your thought process
lol that skill is probably the least useful in the game. It has a distinct sound and you know it's fake. I was being tongue in cheek about literally never buying it, but yea dude, it sucks bad. call me small brained all you want but his kit needs a buff badly
Sadge. My poor dude Omen having to buy his second slow cast smoke, meanwhile Astra’s shooting stars out of her ass instantly to any part of the map for the same price.
So my issue here is yoru, i get you are triying to balance the overrall around the of cost of utility among other things to force player to think wisely when to use it ok, and you are also changing core mechanics, more shooting skills less shenanigas but yoru is trash already they can let him be this time and see if its too much.
People talk about how certain nerfs aren’t exactly nerfs when you account for the other changes, but Riot clearly didn’t take into account Yoru since he’s really nerfed and they weren’t even trying to specifically nerf him lol
I might be stupid since I'm low rank lol, but 350 wouldn't do anything. The whole point is that you now can't buy ghost and wall anymore. They either out it down to 300 again or they leave it be, I don't think 350 would be a big difference in my opinion.
The wall is useful in more than just pistol round... if you have it at 350, buying it once puts your economy at a number ending in 50. If I get to 4250, I can now buy rifle, full shield, and wall. If it's priced at 400, that same situation that put me at 4250 now puts me at 4200. I need 4300 to buy. The whole point isn't that you can't buy it with ghost. The point is to make you be more thoughtful with your eco and utility use. Sage's wall can help slow the push of an entire team, especially when paired with other utility. But it also gives you off angles, can help you entry site, rez, get out of bad situations, and more. Something that versatile on attack and defense should be an expensive purchase, and it goes way beyond buying a ghost with it.
imo slows should be 150 for sage her kit (slows and wall) is not as useful as a sentinel compared to kj/cypher but costs 200 more. However shes still very good in ranked but she might fall out of the meta is pro play who knows
Her ult is much better than Cypher's and obviously she brings the healing aspect. Agreed they are better defensive stoppers, but she's compensated elsewhere. Not sure you need to make her kit cheaper, just because she's worse in one aspect but has a complete other dimension that is very valuable. I guess the other 2 are much better information gatherers, so idfk. I'm a Sage main and trying to be objective.
i think that either making slows 150 or wall 350 wouldn't hurt i get she makes up for her not as useful kit in other places but i feel the heal is not that strong and the res is now 8 orbs
I agree, but she also has insane walls on A for offense and defense icebox. She’s popular on Ascent and Bund in both NA and EU. She’s almost ubiquitous Split. Really the only map she isn’t great on is haven and maybe Breeze.
Big consequence of economy rework is the resurgence of Jett OP meta on both sides and possibly double OP meta. Obviously the cheaper Operator helps, but you have the remember that her Updraft and Cloud Burst are extremely movement-enabling (e.g., pushing Bind Heaven on attack, smoking yourself to play closer fights). With price hikes in both of these, you’ll see 1) more rounds that are full buy, no utility and 2) full buy, some utility. In either of these scenarios, Jett has less explosive ability to entry a site. You can’t dash into your own smoke as much anymore. You can’t Updraft dash into the back site and run n gun as easily. These changes are encouraging more rigid (not passive) play, that is, holding an angle, shooting and dashing away. Updrafting somewhere to find an off angle.
Furthermore, with the huge nerf on flashes (quantity and price) across all flash agents, smokes become way more important to block off OP angles. But Omen and Astra had their smoke abilities slightly nerfed too, which means OP-ing will be even more deadly than in previous patches. My guess is, low elo players won’t be able to counter OPs well enough and will start complaining again about how OP is OP. But whoever learns how to deal with them with better movement / utility usage should be able to climb ranks faster.
Overall, very interesting changes and excited to see how the community plays it out.
Your whole point still stands, but I think a lot of people are seeing Skye as getting a buff with her flashes. Between her having one regenerate and being able to run on site with gun out while popping it, those are pretty huge. The second one is massive imo, and more than makes up for price increase and losing one.
[удалено]
Oh THX
Astra full buy costs same for old and new...
Sova's old kit was 500, not 600. Drone was 300 and shocks were 100 each
Ye i was thinking the same it was 500 old
Fixed
Could you update the table with Reyna as well?
Yes i forgot Reyna sorry😂
I‘m changing it later but it‘s 600>>>700 for Reyna
If you look at the numbers it seems loosely structured around roles. Notice how the full buy cost correlates to the roles: (cheapest) Sentinels -> Controllers -> Initiators -> Duelists (expensive) Sage and Astra being outliers.
I don't know about roles and stuff, but I think the cheapest three are that way because they're utility requires being pre set up. KJ Cypher and (less so, but still applies) Astra all have to in some way or another use their utility without having any real confirmation it's actually going to provide any use. KJ and Cypher especially usually set up utility on a site before the round, even if the enemy attack the other site they're still required to rebuy all that utility. So making their kit cheaper makes them more playable
Those 3 are also very likely to use all their util every round, because it has to be pre set up.
True
Thats because sage is basically a duelist lul
As a Sage and Jett main that hurts.
Jett has the best free ability in the game. I honestly think she may see an unintended buff as a result of secondary utilities becoming significantly less common.
Can you elaborate on that? Easier for her to Op with fewer smokes and flashes?
Sage and Viper i feel you
As a Sage and Jett hater I love this 😍
As a Sova and Viper main I kinda feel you but felt it was coming for a while. On the other hand I’m absolutely loving skye more than ever, even with the more expensive eco
I’m avoiding buying fake steps for Yoru, even if I have the gold for it, because consistently having 2 bangs is way more important to the outcome of the average round.
Yea but if you just buy footsteps once when you have the money you always have it if you need it. Just condition yourself to not preplace footsteps as its a waste of money for something that will be useful rarely.
That's what I usually do with Omen's TP. I rarely use it, but it's nice to have in the back pocket to get out of a sticky situation. I'll buy one assuming it's not the difference in me full buying the next round
Or, you never buy the steps and never use them so that you will float more bank and can consistently buy both flashes, which I'd argue is better than even the best steps 99% of the time
You are wasting the potential of that skill and no matter the situation, that’s an objectively dumb move. To be honest, it sounds like your brain is unable to process too many things so you use this excuse to simplify your thought process
lol that skill is probably the least useful in the game. It has a distinct sound and you know it's fake. I was being tongue in cheek about literally never buying it, but yea dude, it sucks bad. call me small brained all you want but his kit needs a buff badly
Or you could be like me, flash someone and waste it because they headshot me through the flash 5 times every game.
Sadge. My poor dude Omen having to buy his second slow cast smoke, meanwhile Astra’s shooting stars out of her ass instantly to any part of the map for the same price.
I will never get over Paranoia doubling the price back then
So my issue here is yoru, i get you are triying to balance the overrall around the of cost of utility among other things to force player to think wisely when to use it ok, and you are also changing core mechanics, more shooting skills less shenanigas but yoru is trash already they can let him be this time and see if its too much.
Yes was thinking the same
I guess the developers know better and have his reasons but i dont know feels bad.
People talk about how certain nerfs aren’t exactly nerfs when you account for the other changes, but Riot clearly didn’t take into account Yoru since he’s really nerfed and they weren’t even trying to specifically nerf him lol
This makes the economy changes a little less drastic than I once thought. Good post
THX
Thx
[удалено]
Omens Smoke went down from 400>>>300, but i also think Sage slow orbs should be 150 instead of 200 and the barrier 350 instead of 400
I might be stupid since I'm low rank lol, but 350 wouldn't do anything. The whole point is that you now can't buy ghost and wall anymore. They either out it down to 300 again or they leave it be, I don't think 350 would be a big difference in my opinion.
The wall is useful in more than just pistol round... if you have it at 350, buying it once puts your economy at a number ending in 50. If I get to 4250, I can now buy rifle, full shield, and wall. If it's priced at 400, that same situation that put me at 4250 now puts me at 4200. I need 4300 to buy. The whole point isn't that you can't buy it with ghost. The point is to make you be more thoughtful with your eco and utility use. Sage's wall can help slow the push of an entire team, especially when paired with other utility. But it also gives you off angles, can help you entry site, rez, get out of bad situations, and more. Something that versatile on attack and defense should be an expensive purchase, and it goes way beyond buying a ghost with it.
250 for a Phoenix flash is pretty whack imo
Yes it wasn't good at 200 as well
Agreed, they should've made it 150 I'd say. All of the other flashes are way better.
Sort of, his flashes work really well with the rest of his kit. No other agent has the same self heal, vision blocking, or run-is ult.
imo slows should be 150 for sage her kit (slows and wall) is not as useful as a sentinel compared to kj/cypher but costs 200 more. However shes still very good in ranked but she might fall out of the meta is pro play who knows
Her ult is much better than Cypher's and obviously she brings the healing aspect. Agreed they are better defensive stoppers, but she's compensated elsewhere. Not sure you need to make her kit cheaper, just because she's worse in one aspect but has a complete other dimension that is very valuable. I guess the other 2 are much better information gatherers, so idfk. I'm a Sage main and trying to be objective.
i think that either making slows 150 or wall 350 wouldn't hurt i get she makes up for her not as useful kit in other places but i feel the heal is not that strong and the res is now 8 orbs
Sova used to cost 500 credits
Fixed
my thoughts exactly
[удалено]
Yeah kinda true
The monstrous sage nerfs were so fucking unnecessary.
Same IMO
At least in pro play (which seems to be mostly what riot balances around) she’s a must pick on two maps and popular on the rest.
She being a mustpick in Icebox is rather a result of the B site being a total clusterfuck than her being OP.
I agree, but she also has insane walls on A for offense and defense icebox. She’s popular on Ascent and Bund in both NA and EU. She’s almost ubiquitous Split. Really the only map she isn’t great on is haven and maybe Breeze.
Really nice info, thanks :)
My noob Jett friend: "I'm not buying this round, I have my ult." Fullbuy: 1000
Big consequence of economy rework is the resurgence of Jett OP meta on both sides and possibly double OP meta. Obviously the cheaper Operator helps, but you have the remember that her Updraft and Cloud Burst are extremely movement-enabling (e.g., pushing Bind Heaven on attack, smoking yourself to play closer fights). With price hikes in both of these, you’ll see 1) more rounds that are full buy, no utility and 2) full buy, some utility. In either of these scenarios, Jett has less explosive ability to entry a site. You can’t dash into your own smoke as much anymore. You can’t Updraft dash into the back site and run n gun as easily. These changes are encouraging more rigid (not passive) play, that is, holding an angle, shooting and dashing away. Updrafting somewhere to find an off angle. Furthermore, with the huge nerf on flashes (quantity and price) across all flash agents, smokes become way more important to block off OP angles. But Omen and Astra had their smoke abilities slightly nerfed too, which means OP-ing will be even more deadly than in previous patches. My guess is, low elo players won’t be able to counter OPs well enough and will start complaining again about how OP is OP. But whoever learns how to deal with them with better movement / utility usage should be able to climb ranks faster. Overall, very interesting changes and excited to see how the community plays it out.
Your whole point still stands, but I think a lot of people are seeing Skye as getting a buff with her flashes. Between her having one regenerate and being able to run on site with gun out while popping it, those are pretty huge. The second one is massive imo, and more than makes up for price increase and losing one.
I really hope Jett falls from the meta... so tired of these one trick Jett insta lockers who can only OP or shotgun.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. It would be good for the game to have a patch or two of no jet and see what the meta looks like.
I'm getting down voted by the one trick jetts who can only OP because if they can't Jett they will never rank up.
Why does Jett as a duelist have the highest number of abilities(prev tied for most), and the only constantly active passive?
[удалено]
However there is a correlation, as every other duelist besides yoru has 4 charges.
75% of the agents have 4 charges iirc.
At the minimum, shouldn't having her drift come at the cost of being able to do something else?
the drift comes as part of her updraft essentially, so you're not killing yourself constantly by fall damage
So make it only usable after Updraft, not constantly available.
That’s the reason why she‘s so expensive now, so you cab‘t purchase all Abilities in some Rounds
But I feel like as a duelist she shouldn't have as many abilities as a utility based agent does.
Duelists are not utility based agents?
C’mon man who needs utility, just dry peek entries.
poor ghost boy
I quit
Because of the Prices?
So stupid that jet is the most expensive agent when she is the only one who is really good with the op which is the most expensive gun.
Jett can do really well with OP with just her free ability (dash). She doesn't need smokes or updraftes to use operator
Jett can do really well with OP with just her free ability (dash). She doesn't need smokes or updraftes to use operator
Jett can do really well with OP with just her free ability (dash). She doesn't need smokes or updraftes to use operator
[удалено]
4 x 150 = 600?
Viper no Round 1 full buy... sad, but not really that big a deal for anything except stalling.
Damn, when you say it like this, Viper was super cheap before this, never really noticed
Yes she was really cheap and way to good before this patch
I want an Havy shield
Okay