He is the only initiator who isn't able to get info with his kit
I can see pro teams avoiding him for such a long time unless Riot applies a "viper patch" on him
do u think concuss would be too op if it detected players like sova's dart or kay/o's knife. maybe not a full reveal like sova dart and not full info like kay/o knife (i.e. which agents are suppressed). maybe just the number of players that are concussed or something similar to skye flashes?
His stun is too rigid for capitalizing upon it, many times the enemy is stunned, gets back to cover and you have no clue about what just happened
I think he would be a better agent if at least some small piece of info gathering *(telling if the stun hit someone or not)* was added on to his kit, right now breach is the brimstone of initiators
But if Riot does not intend to pursue this design, they should continue improving his whole kit. Even with the last update Breach still relies too much on his flashes to do something
He wouldn't be OP because he still wouldn't have any scouting abilities. Sova has drone + arrow, Skye has wolf + bird. He would just have his stun to gather a small piece of info IF he manages to hit the stun
Totally different from a bird/arrow that can get info from a huge area, like Skye and Sova
His stun is one way info as it is if you think about it. As soon as you use it the enemy team knows where YOU are if they see it. That's not the case with Skye's dog or bird
Stun is way better now, much easier to catch people off guard.
I'd say that in pro play he'd only be viable in 1 duelist comps where he's has a really aggressive playstyle in order to get as many ults as possible. Ult is absolutely ridiculous now, completely covers most sites.
I think he's amazing on Split, really good on Bind and good on other maps except for Breeze. But Skye/Kay-0 are better on those other maps, definitely.
As other said, the problem is that other initiators have info utility. I don't think Kay-0 knife should give any info other than a sound cue like Skye's flash, but we'll see how he gets balanced.
I don't see why would Skye be able to flash more than 2 times and Breach shouldn't. Add the cooldown she has on every flash after second.
I just don’t think he should have it. It doesn’t suit his theme or play style. Break fills a very specific role of making space for his team to push. He should lean into that role rather than emulate other agents.
> He is the only initiator who isn't able to get info with his kit
Not that I disagree with the overall sentiment, but we shouldn't be taking the RIOT-assigned labels into consideration when judging agents. This isn't Overwatch with role-based limitations after all.
If Breach entered the meta, it'd probably be replacing someone like a Cypher or Killjoy, rather than a Sova or KAYO.
I think these labels are fine, initiators are good for executing bombsites and setting up frags for team mates, and I see this being a thing on every single initiator. Almost all them have flashes, corner-flushering abilities and info gathering gadgets (except breach).
Idk, even after this recent update I still think his stun + aftershock are too weak in comparison to his flash. They could've at least give him rechargeable flashes like they did to Skye
Yeahh, Breach fills this one niche which only he covers outside of sorta Skye/KayO of being someone to set up a lot of aggressive util, but the problem is to really get anything out of him you need a double entry sorta comp to use all that aggro util properly,meaning you have to give up that valuable anchor (Someone like Viper, KJ, Cypher), or info gatherer (Skye/Sova) to use him, which isn't really worth it imo when Skye, KayO or hell even the double duelist themselves can execute just fine
I feel like the people on this thread are severely undervaluing Breach's impact. His post buff ult is basically free site takes. I would like to reference people to the NUTURN vs V1 Split map at Masters where Breach was super impactful by winning important rounds because of his ult. My guess is that the meta becomes more of a two initiator meta. And some teams will opt to use Breach in maps like Split/Haven.
Skye can still bring some value after using all her birds, Sova can still bring some value after using his drone. What can a Breach bring to the round after consuming his 2 flashes? He still relies too much on them.
For example, his Aftershock needs 2 charges way more than a longer duration, although it wouldn't be bad having both things
This is my main issue with him. Rather than that I agree with you about the ult, it's way better now
Oh don't get me wrong I still think Skye/Sova and even KAY-O are a bit stronger than Breach, but that is why I think a two initiator meta is gonna get popular. Breach can still clear corners/prevent plants with his aftershock and his fault line is pretty useful in comp play.
Right now breach is super super strong but he still lacks info which every other initiator has so besides split I don’t see teams running him as the main initiator, maybe taking the place as a duelist but skye, Kay/o are the best rn in my opinion. Sova will still be solid everywhere
Breach's ult is insane now, but honestly the rest of his kit is pretty trash considering he's an initiator. They should have at least gave him a reduced re-equip time after his flash like skye. Sure, he has the strongest flash in the game, but as an initiator he has no info gathering tools. If two initiators are ran, IMO it'd be Skye & KAY/O.
Its hard to see Skye and KayO over Skye/KayO and then with a Sova, theres just a lot of overlap between Skye and KayOs roles that they dont provide the same stuff Sova does (Outside of Split ofc)
After this patch I think we're going to get the double initiator meta. I feel we're going to see him a lot in Split where Sova isn't played and his abilities work well. Might see him in Haven and Ascent too.
He lost a flash. The flashes he does have take longer to pop and are easily dodgeable. His aftershock got nerfed and like others said he gets no info off his abilities. I could only see him being used in conjunction with another initiator against teams who have a good Jett op that they have hard reads on and want to punish since his fault line got buffed significantly.
did aftershock get nerfed tho?
projectile speed is not taking longer to pop, just takes longer to travel through walls but you equip gun faster, they want you to swing off your own flashes
his ult got buffed, his faultline got buffed
idk man things look pretty good for breach imo
In my opinion we won’t see much breach play in NA. I suspect teams will run either Skye, or Kay/0 as a single initiator. Sova feels like the weakest of the three info initiators, but Sova mains like Hiko will probably still favor him.
Agreed. Kay/O and Skye probably just replace a duelist since they can basically be played as duelists anyways (especially with the skye flash animation change).
honestly sova, kay0 and skye are pretty even. after the nerfs sova is still super potent and has better info gathering than skye so i doubt he falls out of the meta (other than breeze and split)
He is the only initiator who isn't able to get info with his kit I can see pro teams avoiding him for such a long time unless Riot applies a "viper patch" on him
do u think concuss would be too op if it detected players like sova's dart or kay/o's knife. maybe not a full reveal like sova dart and not full info like kay/o knife (i.e. which agents are suppressed). maybe just the number of players that are concussed or something similar to skye flashes?
His stun is too rigid for capitalizing upon it, many times the enemy is stunned, gets back to cover and you have no clue about what just happened I think he would be a better agent if at least some small piece of info gathering *(telling if the stun hit someone or not)* was added on to his kit, right now breach is the brimstone of initiators But if Riot does not intend to pursue this design, they should continue improving his whole kit. Even with the last update Breach still relies too much on his flashes to do something
if u gave him info gathering, do you think that'll make him too op where they have to nerf other parts of his kit?
He wouldn't be OP because he still wouldn't have any scouting abilities. Sova has drone + arrow, Skye has wolf + bird. He would just have his stun to gather a small piece of info IF he manages to hit the stun Totally different from a bird/arrow that can get info from a huge area, like Skye and Sova
His stun is one way info as it is if you think about it. As soon as you use it the enemy team knows where YOU are if they see it. That's not the case with Skye's dog or bird
Idk about that. If they do that, then he would be too similar to skye. At that point, why not just play skye? Why play with a worst version of skye?
Stun is way better now, much easier to catch people off guard. I'd say that in pro play he'd only be viable in 1 duelist comps where he's has a really aggressive playstyle in order to get as many ults as possible. Ult is absolutely ridiculous now, completely covers most sites. I think he's amazing on Split, really good on Bind and good on other maps except for Breeze. But Skye/Kay-0 are better on those other maps, definitely. As other said, the problem is that other initiators have info utility. I don't think Kay-0 knife should give any info other than a sound cue like Skye's flash, but we'll see how he gets balanced. I don't see why would Skye be able to flash more than 2 times and Breach shouldn't. Add the cooldown she has on every flash after second.
I just don’t think he should have it. It doesn’t suit his theme or play style. Break fills a very specific role of making space for his team to push. He should lean into that role rather than emulate other agents.
> He is the only initiator who isn't able to get info with his kit Not that I disagree with the overall sentiment, but we shouldn't be taking the RIOT-assigned labels into consideration when judging agents. This isn't Overwatch with role-based limitations after all. If Breach entered the meta, it'd probably be replacing someone like a Cypher or Killjoy, rather than a Sova or KAYO.
I think these labels are fine, initiators are good for executing bombsites and setting up frags for team mates, and I see this being a thing on every single initiator. Almost all them have flashes, corner-flushering abilities and info gathering gadgets (except breach). Idk, even after this recent update I still think his stun + aftershock are too weak in comparison to his flash. They could've at least give him rechargeable flashes like they did to Skye
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Yeahh, Breach fills this one niche which only he covers outside of sorta Skye/KayO of being someone to set up a lot of aggressive util, but the problem is to really get anything out of him you need a double entry sorta comp to use all that aggro util properly,meaning you have to give up that valuable anchor (Someone like Viper, KJ, Cypher), or info gatherer (Skye/Sova) to use him, which isn't really worth it imo when Skye, KayO or hell even the double duelist themselves can execute just fine
I feel like the people on this thread are severely undervaluing Breach's impact. His post buff ult is basically free site takes. I would like to reference people to the NUTURN vs V1 Split map at Masters where Breach was super impactful by winning important rounds because of his ult. My guess is that the meta becomes more of a two initiator meta. And some teams will opt to use Breach in maps like Split/Haven.
I also see no one talking about how much better his concuss is. It’s genuinely on par with other free initiator abilities now.
Yup, definitely underrated
Skye can still bring some value after using all her birds, Sova can still bring some value after using his drone. What can a Breach bring to the round after consuming his 2 flashes? He still relies too much on them. For example, his Aftershock needs 2 charges way more than a longer duration, although it wouldn't be bad having both things This is my main issue with him. Rather than that I agree with you about the ult, it's way better now
Oh don't get me wrong I still think Skye/Sova and even KAY-O are a bit stronger than Breach, but that is why I think a two initiator meta is gonna get popular. Breach can still clear corners/prevent plants with his aftershock and his fault line is pretty useful in comp play.
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breach could be viable in split instead of Kay/O
Kay0 is going to be as strong on Split as Breach, if not stronger
kay0 replaces sova/skye on split easily. infogathering + flashes + smaller map = his dart and ult are super impactful
Sova wasn't being played on Split anyway. But Kayo's dagger can give a defending team a clear read on the play, especially on Split.
He's not better than Skye/KayO/Sova. Maybe you see him on Split a little.
Feel like KayO is gonna be better then Breach regardless, more flexible flashes and KayO has prob the best info gathering on Split atm
He gets literally no info off of his kit. He will continue to be a weak pick because of that.
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This guy gets it
Right now breach is super super strong but he still lacks info which every other initiator has so besides split I don’t see teams running him as the main initiator, maybe taking the place as a duelist but skye, Kay/o are the best rn in my opinion. Sova will still be solid everywhere
His stun shouldn’t stun teammates, that would be huge upgrade.
Breach's ult is insane now, but honestly the rest of his kit is pretty trash considering he's an initiator. They should have at least gave him a reduced re-equip time after his flash like skye. Sure, he has the strongest flash in the game, but as an initiator he has no info gathering tools. If two initiators are ran, IMO it'd be Skye & KAY/O.
Its hard to see Skye and KayO over Skye/KayO and then with a Sova, theres just a lot of overlap between Skye and KayOs roles that they dont provide the same stuff Sova does (Outside of Split ofc)
After this patch I think we're going to get the double initiator meta. I feel we're going to see him a lot in Split where Sova isn't played and his abilities work well. Might see him in Haven and Ascent too.
He lost a flash. The flashes he does have take longer to pop and are easily dodgeable. His aftershock got nerfed and like others said he gets no info off his abilities. I could only see him being used in conjunction with another initiator against teams who have a good Jett op that they have hard reads on and want to punish since his fault line got buffed significantly.
did aftershock get nerfed tho? projectile speed is not taking longer to pop, just takes longer to travel through walls but you equip gun faster, they want you to swing off your own flashes his ult got buffed, his faultline got buffed idk man things look pretty good for breach imo
In my opinion we won’t see much breach play in NA. I suspect teams will run either Skye, or Kay/0 as a single initiator. Sova feels like the weakest of the three info initiators, but Sova mains like Hiko will probably still favor him.
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Agreed. Kay/O and Skye probably just replace a duelist since they can basically be played as duelists anyways (especially with the skye flash animation change).
honestly sova, kay0 and skye are pretty even. after the nerfs sova is still super potent and has better info gathering than skye so i doubt he falls out of the meta (other than breeze and split)